WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.399 Okay, so let's unpack this right away. I want 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:07.080 you to picture a young boy, not even four years 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:11.060 old yet, sleeping under a heavy steel plate in 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:14.199 his own home. Wow. Just right there in the house. 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:18.140 Yeah, exactly. A makeshift metal shelter indoors 00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:21.620 because outside the world is quite literally 00:00:21.620 --> 00:00:23.579 tearing itself apart. It's the height of World 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:26.059 War II. Right. The bombs of the Blitz are falling 00:00:26.059 --> 00:00:29.539 all across Britain. And this child's daily reality 00:00:29.539 --> 00:00:32.640 is just, you know, defined by air raid sirens, 00:00:32.859 --> 00:00:35.259 total blackouts, and this piece of steel. Which 00:00:35.259 --> 00:00:37.880 is terrifying to even think about. It is. And 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:39.380 the craziest part is he didn't know anything 00:00:39.380 --> 00:00:42.140 else. There's this documented moment where he 00:00:42.140 --> 00:00:44.039 realizes, but only after the war ended, that 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:45.880 the world wasn't actually supposed to be exploding 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:47.820 all the time. He actually said that he thought 00:00:47.820 --> 00:00:50.509 war was just normal life. Man, that really forces 00:00:50.509 --> 00:00:52.429 you to consider what happens to a developing 00:00:52.429 --> 00:00:54.890 brain when its baseline for normal is, well, 00:00:55.289 --> 00:00:57.409 existential threat. Yeah, exactly. When a child's 00:00:57.409 --> 00:00:59.350 formative years are steeped in that kind of societal 00:00:59.350 --> 00:01:02.270 destruction, they gain a very stark, very early 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:04.670 understanding of the fragility of human existence. 00:01:05.090 --> 00:01:07.049 They have to, you're right, just to cope. Exactly. 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:10.870 You are exposed to the absolute extremes of human 00:01:10.870 --> 00:01:15.260 behavior, fear, destruction, survival, before 00:01:15.260 --> 00:01:16.680 you even know how to read. Well, that little 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:18.640 boy sleeping under the steel plate didn't just 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.359 survive that environment. He grew up to be a 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:23.620 Shakespearean king. He certainly did. He became 00:01:23.620 --> 00:01:26.920 a comic book super villain, a globally beloved 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:31.180 cinematic wizard, and honestly, a fiercely unapologetic 00:01:31.180 --> 00:01:34.700 cultural icon. Welcome to today's Deep Dive. 00:01:34.859 --> 00:01:36.379 I'm really looking forward to this one. Me too. 00:01:36.670 --> 00:01:39.290 Our mission today for you, the listener, is to 00:01:39.290 --> 00:01:41.769 explore the biographical notes and the sprawling 00:01:41.769 --> 00:01:44.370 career records of Sir Ian McKellen. Sir Ian. 00:01:44.930 --> 00:01:47.390 A legend. Truly. But we aren't just reading down 00:01:47.390 --> 00:01:50.609 his resume here. We are unpacking how early adversity, 00:01:50.810 --> 00:01:53.569 combined with this absolute refusal to compromise 00:01:53.569 --> 00:01:56.489 his authenticity, fueled one of the most uniquely 00:01:56.489 --> 00:01:58.870 resilient and late -blooming careers in modern 00:01:58.870 --> 00:02:00.549 history. And we are going to connect the dots 00:02:00.549 --> 00:02:03.090 between those highly rigorous classical theatrical 00:02:03.090 --> 00:02:07.760 roots he has and his eventual global pop culture 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.379 dominance. Because it's a wild trajectory. It 00:02:10.379 --> 00:02:13.840 really is. The path he took to get there completely 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.060 defies the traditional mechanics of the entertainment 00:02:16.060 --> 00:02:18.539 industry. I mean, he didn't adapt to Hollywood. 00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:20.759 He basically forced Hollywood to understand his 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:22.840 language. That's a great way to put it. Let's 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:24.960 start with that early foundation, because, you 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:27.479 know, the tragedy didn't just stop with the blitz 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.539 for him. It was born in 1939 in Lancashire, moved 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:33.539 to Wigan, and after surviving the war, he faced 00:02:33.539 --> 00:02:36.610 some really intense personal grief. His mother 00:02:36.610 --> 00:02:38.909 died of breast cancer when he was just 12. Oh, 00:02:38.909 --> 00:02:41.969 wow. That's incredibly young. It is. And then 00:02:41.969 --> 00:02:44.870 he lost his father when he was only 25. So he 00:02:44.870 --> 00:02:47.610 was surrounded by profound loss before he even 00:02:47.610 --> 00:02:50.930 truly reached full adulthood. Which, as tragic 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:53.830 as it is, is a critical mechanism for his future 00:02:53.830 --> 00:02:57.229 craft. How so? Well, to play tragedy convincingly 00:02:57.229 --> 00:02:59.889 on a stage, an actor really has to understand 00:02:59.889 --> 00:03:02.319 it on a cellular level. You have to know what 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:04.580 the physical weight of grief feels like. Right, 00:03:04.620 --> 00:03:06.240 when the bottom just drops out of your world. 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.900 Exactly. That early exposure to conflict and 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:12.639 loss created this profound emotional reservoir 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.259 for him. When he eventually steps onto a stage 00:03:15.259 --> 00:03:18.659 to play, like a broken king or a tortured soul, 00:03:19.419 --> 00:03:22.060 he isn't having to invent the feeling of despair. 00:03:22.259 --> 00:03:24.560 He's drawing from a well of lived understanding. 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:27.430 Right. He understands the precariousness of life. 00:03:27.909 --> 00:03:30.389 He developed his theatrical imagination not just 00:03:30.389 --> 00:03:33.469 as a fun hobby, but almost as a survival tool 00:03:33.469 --> 00:03:36.689 to process an inherently unstable world. I really 00:03:36.689 --> 00:03:38.490 love that point. It's almost like that steel 00:03:38.490 --> 00:03:41.469 plate was a literal cocoon for him. He was shielded 00:03:41.469 --> 00:03:44.110 from a world tearing itself apart, but it also 00:03:44.110 --> 00:03:46.849 incubated this massive imagination. That's a 00:03:46.849 --> 00:03:49.110 really great analogy. And he had a fascinating 00:03:49.110 --> 00:03:51.530 family lineage backing up that survival instinct 00:03:51.530 --> 00:03:54.599 too. His great great grandfather Robert J. Lowe's 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:56.780 was a major campaigner for the Saturday half 00:03:56.780 --> 00:03:59.479 holiday in Manchester. Wait, really? Yeah. He 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:01.539 basically helped invent the modern weekend. That 00:04:01.539 --> 00:04:04.120 is incredible. I had no idea. It's wild. And 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:06.379 add to that his upbringing. His father was a 00:04:06.379 --> 00:04:08.979 lay preacher, but the home was strictly non -orthodox. 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:12.139 The focus wasn't on rigid dogma or rules. What 00:04:12.139 --> 00:04:15.060 was it on then? It was entirely on treating everyone 00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:17.540 with Christian behavior, you know, empathy and 00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:20.439 action over preaching. Ah, well, you can see 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:22.540 the through line there immediately. Right. There 00:04:22.540 --> 00:04:25.939 is a generational precedent for challenging the 00:04:25.939 --> 00:04:28.139 status quo and championing the working class. 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:31.879 That non -orthodox upbringing taught him to prioritize 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:34.480 human connection over institutional rules. Which 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:37.259 totally becomes the defining characteristic of 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:40.420 his later activism and his approach to those 00:04:40.420 --> 00:04:42.740 really controversial characters he plays. Absolutely. 00:04:42.939 --> 00:04:45.579 So that non -conformist spirit translated to 00:04:45.579 --> 00:04:48.360 the stage almost instantly. His parents had taken 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:50.939 him to see Peter Pan when he was three and by 00:04:50.939 --> 00:04:53.160 nine he was directing plays on this little fold 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:56.660 away Victorian toy theater. And he gets to Cambridge 00:04:56.660 --> 00:05:00.040 in 1958 and just consumes the theatrical world. 00:05:00.500 --> 00:05:04.459 He performs in 23 plays in three years. 23 plays. 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.860 That's an insane workload for a student. It really 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:09.959 is. But working with directors like Peter Hall 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:12.399 and John Barton at Cambridge, that was a crucible 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:15.240 for him. He was mastering the absolute mechanical 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.519 precision of his craft there. Like the technical 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:20.459 stuff. Yeah, breath control, vocal resonance, 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:23.899 the intellectual deconstruction of really dense 00:05:23.899 --> 00:05:26.779 texts. And he immediately weaponized those skills 00:05:26.779 --> 00:05:29.480 to push boundaries. I mean, in 1969, he has a 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:32.459 massive breakthrough playing the lead in Christopher 00:05:32.459 --> 00:05:35.240 Marlowe's Edward II. Oh, that was a huge moment. 00:05:35.379 --> 00:05:38.100 It caused an absolute storm of protest because 00:05:38.100 --> 00:05:40.639 of the lurid death scene of the homosexual king, 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.980 he completely refused to sanitize the classical 00:05:43.980 --> 00:05:46.899 text for polite society. He brought a very raw, 00:05:46.980 --> 00:05:49.579 unapologetic truth to it. He did. Fast forward 00:05:49.579 --> 00:05:52.279 to 1980, and he's winning a Tony on Broadway 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:55.560 for playing Antonio Solieri in Amadeus. He is 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:57.860 just dominating the international stage. He's 00:05:57.860 --> 00:06:00.240 at the top of his game. But let's look at 1995, 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:02.339 because this is where his career mechanics get 00:06:02.339 --> 00:06:05.060 super fascinating. He co -writes an adaptation 00:06:05.060 --> 00:06:07.420 of Shakespeare's Richard III. Such a brilliant 00:06:07.420 --> 00:06:09.680 adaptation, by the way. It is. He sets it in 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:13.939 a fictional 1930s fascist Britain. He's the star. 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:15.839 He's the executive producer. And at the end of 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.560 the shoot, they run out of money for the final 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:21.160 battle scene. Oh, no. Yeah. So he returns his 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.420 50 ,000 pound fee just to finish the film. Wait, 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:26.939 he essentially financed his own artistic vision 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:29.319 out of pocket. Exactly. Here's where it gets 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:32.319 really interesting. The film critic Roger Ebert 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.300 praised the adaptation, specifically noting that 00:06:35.300 --> 00:06:38.420 McCallan brought a pitiable malevolence to the 00:06:38.420 --> 00:06:40.720 villain. Pitiable malevolence. That's a perfect 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.300 description. He played Richard as a man who is 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:46.540 entirely self -aware of his own evil and the 00:06:46.540 --> 00:06:48.199 price he's eventually going to pay for it. But 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:50.180 I struggle to buy the traditional narrative here. 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:52.420 I mean, if I'm a Hollywood studio executive in 00:06:52.420 --> 00:06:55.040 the mid 90s and An actor pitching a self -funded 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.740 1930s fascist adaptation of a Shakespeare play 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:02.040 sounds like absolute box office poison. Oh, 100%. 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:04.379 It's a massive gamble. Right. We usually think 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:06.899 of stage actors waiting to be discovered by Hollywood 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:10.139 for a mainstream role. How did an artsy passion 00:07:10.139 --> 00:07:12.660 project actually convince Hollywood that he could 00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:15.199 lead a global blockbuster? It was all because 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.939 of the visual language he used. He didn't just 00:07:17.939 --> 00:07:20.839 film a stage play with guys standing around in 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:22.750 tights reciting Old English. Right. That would 00:07:22.750 --> 00:07:25.269 have been boring for a film audience. Exactly. 00:07:25.850 --> 00:07:28.629 He wrapped the most complex language in the theatrical 00:07:28.629 --> 00:07:32.329 canon in a visually stunning cinematic fascist 00:07:32.329 --> 00:07:36.170 aesthetic. You know, tanks, uniforms, massive 00:07:36.170 --> 00:07:38.350 architectural set pieces. It felt like an action 00:07:38.350 --> 00:07:41.350 movie. It did. And think about the soliloquies 00:07:41.350 --> 00:07:44.750 in Richard III. They involve the character speaking 00:07:44.750 --> 00:07:47.370 directly to the audience, pulling them into his 00:07:47.370 --> 00:07:50.209 conspiracy. McKellen translated that directly 00:07:50.209 --> 00:07:53.209 to the camera lens. Oh, wow. That's smart. He 00:07:53.209 --> 00:07:55.110 showed Hollywood executives that he commanded 00:07:55.110 --> 00:07:57.649 the screen with the exact same authority that 00:07:57.649 --> 00:08:00.269 a modern action villain requires. He didn't ask 00:08:00.269 --> 00:08:02.550 Hollywood for permission. He built a cinematic 00:08:02.550 --> 00:08:05.709 calling card. Yes. He proved his classical mastery 00:08:05.709 --> 00:08:08.290 could scale to massive theatrical set pieces. 00:08:08.569 --> 00:08:10.829 So he basically forces them to meet him on his 00:08:10.829 --> 00:08:13.600 turf. Which sets up the most unexpected pivot 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.079 imaginable. The blockbuster era. Yeah. Having 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.199 conquered the classical world and made his mark 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:20.860 in indie film, he suddenly becomes the face of 00:08:20.860 --> 00:08:23.620 the world's biggest blockbuster franchises. And 00:08:23.620 --> 00:08:25.899 he's in his 60s when this happens. Which is entirely 00:08:25.899 --> 00:08:28.000 counterintuitive to how aging in the entertainment 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.740 industry usually works. Usually rolls dry up. 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.500 Right. And he almost completely missed the boat 00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:37.480 entirely. Earlier in his career, his friend Patrick 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:39.840 Stewart was offered the role of Captain Picard 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:42.700 on Star Trek, The Next Generation. Oh, I love 00:08:42.700 --> 00:08:44.779 this story. McKellen strongly advised him not 00:08:44.779 --> 00:08:47.679 to take it. He told him not to throw away a respected 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:49.840 theatrical career for an American television 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:52.419 show. Which is hilarious in hindsight. He later 00:08:52.419 --> 00:08:54.340 cheerfully admitted that was the worst advice 00:08:54.340 --> 00:08:57.480 he ever gave. A rare miscalculation, for sure. 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.100 But one he clearly learned from. Definitely. 00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:04.039 Because in 1999, director Bryan Singer casts 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:07.500 him as the mutant supervillain Magneto in X -Men. 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:10.159 Such perfect casting. And right as he's filming 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:13.399 that, Peter Jackson casts him as the wizard Gandalf 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:15.559 in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Back -to -back 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.320 iconic roles. Yeah. He even gets the Elvish number 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.440 nine tattooed on his shoulder with the rest of 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.460 the fellowship cast. And he navigates these massive 00:09:23.460 --> 00:09:26.480 press tours with this incredibly dry wit. He's 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.100 so funny in interviews. Like when religious groups 00:09:29.100 --> 00:09:31.639 demanded the Da Vinci Code carry a fiction disclaimer 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:34.960 in 2006, he calmly suggested the Bible should 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:37.440 have a fiction disclaimer in the front too. He 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.539 added that he thought audiences were bright enough 00:09:39.539 --> 00:09:41.899 to separate fact and fiction. He just doesn't 00:09:41.899 --> 00:09:44.559 care. He really doesn't. So what does this all 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.559 mean? He becomes a global action and fantasy 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:50.539 superstar at an age when most actors are looking 00:09:50.539 --> 00:09:53.500 toward retirement. It's like spending 40 years 00:09:53.500 --> 00:09:56.419 studying classical architecture, only to suddenly 00:09:56.419 --> 00:09:59.639 become the world's most famous Lego master. That's 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:01.899 brilliant. But how does that classical training 00:10:01.899 --> 00:10:04.860 actually translate to acting opposite a tennis 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:07.480 ball on a green screen? Yeah, how does that work? 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.179 That is where the mechanics of his stage training 00:10:10.179 --> 00:10:14.230 become vital. Consider a Shakespearean actor's 00:10:14.230 --> 00:10:16.669 breath control. Okay. They are trained to carry 00:10:16.669 --> 00:10:19.269 a single thought through five lines of dense 00:10:19.269 --> 00:10:22.250 iambic pentameter and they're projecting to the 00:10:22.250 --> 00:10:24.929 back of a 1500 seat theater while making it sound 00:10:24.929 --> 00:10:27.289 like natural conversation. That's incredibly 00:10:27.289 --> 00:10:29.769 difficult. It is. So when you take an actor with 00:10:29.769 --> 00:10:32.250 that specific vocal resonance and drop him onto 00:10:32.250 --> 00:10:35.409 a CGI bridge to yell, you shall not pass. He 00:10:35.409 --> 00:10:37.470 doesn't sound ridiculous. He sounds mythic. He 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:40.629 grounds the fantasy. Exactly. He makes the fictional 00:10:40.629 --> 00:10:43.710 lore of Middle Earth sound like ancient, indisputable 00:10:43.710 --> 00:10:46.049 history. And with Magneto, he's playing a guy 00:10:46.049 --> 00:10:48.289 in a cape who controls metal. I mean, it could 00:10:48.289 --> 00:10:50.490 easily be a cartoon. But he doesn't play the 00:10:50.490 --> 00:10:54.309 cartoon. Look at the psychology of Magneto. He 00:10:54.309 --> 00:10:57.110 is a mutant who is marginalized and persecuted 00:10:57.110 --> 00:10:59.990 by society for who he inherently is. Right. He's 00:10:59.990 --> 00:11:02.330 an outsider. And the character is a Holocaust 00:11:02.330 --> 00:11:06.139 survivor whose worldview that humanity will always 00:11:06.139 --> 00:11:08.980 destroy what it doesn't understand is internally 00:11:08.980 --> 00:11:11.120 logical to him. It makes sense to him. Right. 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.899 If we connect this to the bigger picture, McKellen 00:11:13.899 --> 00:11:16.940 brought a profound understanding of alienation 00:11:16.940 --> 00:11:20.029 to that role as a gay man. He didn't treat comic 00:11:20.029 --> 00:11:22.470 book material as beneath him. He treated Magneto 00:11:22.470 --> 00:11:25.110 with the exact same psychological rigor as Macbeth. 00:11:25.190 --> 00:11:27.529 Which brings us to a parallel track of his life 00:11:27.529 --> 00:11:30.009 that heavily informs that sense of alienation. 00:11:30.629 --> 00:11:32.850 While he was playing the societal outsiders on 00:11:32.850 --> 00:11:35.289 screen, he was stepping into the light as an 00:11:35.289 --> 00:11:37.750 advocate in his real life. A huge turning point 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:40.110 for him. Up until 1988, he was out to fellow 00:11:40.110 --> 00:11:42.929 actors, but not to the general public. But then 00:11:42.929 --> 00:11:45.639 politics forced his hand. because the late 1980s 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:47.980 were a highly volatile time in British politics 00:11:47.980 --> 00:11:52.100 regarding civil rights. Right. In 1988, British 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:54.720 politics reached a boiling point with the proposal 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.879 of Section 28. Now we should note, as we're looking 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:00.000 at the historical context from our sources here, 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.360 Section 28 was legislation aimed at prohibiting 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.820 local authorities from promoting homosexuality. 00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:07.379 Yes. And just to be clear for you listening, 00:12:07.690 --> 00:12:10.149 We are impartially reporting the contents of 00:12:10.149 --> 00:12:13.230 the historical text and his reactions here without 00:12:13.230 --> 00:12:16.549 endorsing any political viewpoints. But regardless 00:12:16.549 --> 00:12:19.129 of where one stood politically, for McKellen, 00:12:19.129 --> 00:12:21.730 this was an absolute line in the sand. It was 00:12:21.730 --> 00:12:23.870 a direct threat to his community. Exactly. He 00:12:23.870 --> 00:12:26.789 decided to come out publicly on a BBC radio program 00:12:26.789 --> 00:12:30.070 specifically to protest the legislation. He realized 00:12:30.070 --> 00:12:33.950 that adding his name and his growing public profile 00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:36.389 to the campaign might offer comfort to others. 00:12:36.669 --> 00:12:38.870 It demonstrated that it was possible to live 00:12:38.870 --> 00:12:41.509 openly. He stopped compartmentalizing his life. 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:43.409 He did. And he didn't just speak on the radio, 00:12:43.509 --> 00:12:46.590 he actively lobbied the government. There's this 00:12:46.590 --> 00:12:48.669 brilliant anecdote where he goes to visit Michael 00:12:48.669 --> 00:12:50.590 Howard, the environment secretary at the time, 00:12:50.850 --> 00:12:53.230 to lobby against the bill. Oh, this is legendary. 00:12:53.529 --> 00:12:56.450 Howard refused to change his position, but as 00:12:56.450 --> 00:12:59.169 McKellen was leaving... Howard asked for an autograph 00:12:59.169 --> 00:13:01.830 for his children. The audacity. Right. And McKellen 00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:05.149 signed it. Fuck off. I'm gay. It is pure unfiltered 00:13:05.149 --> 00:13:07.889 defiance. It really is. Following that period, 00:13:08.269 --> 00:13:10.750 he co -founded Stonewall, which is the prominent 00:13:10.750 --> 00:13:14.509 LGBT rights lobby group in the UK. And his philosophy 00:13:14.509 --> 00:13:17.950 on activism is highly strategic. How so? Well, 00:13:17.950 --> 00:13:20.230 he focuses almost exclusively on gay rights. 00:13:20.690 --> 00:13:22.509 He stated that he doesn't want to dilute the 00:13:22.509 --> 00:13:25.450 impact of his core message by constantly lobbying 00:13:25.450 --> 00:13:27.850 on every other issue he cares about. whether 00:13:27.850 --> 00:13:30.389 that's religion or nuclear weapons. Ah, keeping 00:13:30.389 --> 00:13:32.929 the main thing the main thing. Exactly. He maintains 00:13:32.929 --> 00:13:35.769 a laser focus to maximize his impact. But let's 00:13:35.769 --> 00:13:38.190 look at the timing of that BBC radio interview. 00:13:38.750 --> 00:13:41.669 He was 49 years old, he was a highly respected 00:13:41.669 --> 00:13:44.769 stage actor, but right on the precipice of broader 00:13:44.769 --> 00:13:47.379 film fame. True. Hollywood in the late 80s was 00:13:47.379 --> 00:13:49.740 incredibly rigid about its leading men. Wasn't 00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:51.899 he essentially throwing a grenade at his own 00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:54.279 emerging film career by coming out so publicly 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:56.879 at that exact moment? This raises an important 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.179 question about authenticity. On paper, yeah, 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.179 it was an immense professional risk. The conventional 00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:05.659 wisdom of the era dictated that being an openly 00:14:05.659 --> 00:14:09.000 gay leading man would alienate mainstream audiences. 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.879 Right. That was the fear. But this reveals a 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.659 fascinating paradox about authenticity and artistic 00:14:14.659 --> 00:14:18.139 performance. His career didn't end. It exploded 00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:21.139 globally. It totally did. But why? The reason 00:14:21.139 --> 00:14:24.320 for that is deeply psychological. When an actor 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.000 spends a massive amount of internal energy hiding 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.799 a fundamental part of their identity, it creates 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:31.799 an invisible barrier. Oh, that makes sense. It 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:33.740 requires constant self -monitoring, which takes 00:14:33.740 --> 00:14:36.779 a huge psychological toll. Once McKellen removed 00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:39.539 that barrier, all that misdirected energy was 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:42.320 channeled directly into his craft. Wow. He noted 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.480 later when speaking about coming out to his stepmother 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.419 that he was just glad he wasn't lying anymore. 00:14:47.019 --> 00:14:49.240 Exactly that. The absence of that lie allowed 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:51.740 his performances to become freer and more deeply 00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:54.259 rooted in truth. The authenticity he finally 00:14:54.259 --> 00:14:56.820 embraced in his personal life translated into 00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:59.960 this undeniable relaxed magnetism on screen. 00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:03.159 He proved that leaning into your absolute truth 00:15:03.389 --> 00:15:06.070 rather than carefully managing a public facade, 00:15:06.690 --> 00:15:08.970 is actually the greatest asset an artist can 00:15:08.970 --> 00:15:11.110 possess. And the momentum from that liberation 00:15:11.110 --> 00:15:14.169 just hasn't stopped. Which brings us to the final 00:15:14.169 --> 00:15:18.000 chapter of our deep dive. the unstoppable octogenarian. 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.279 I love this era of his life. The stamina he forged 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:25.220 under those WWII steel plates seems to be propelling 00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:28.139 him through his 80s. He absolutely refuses to 00:15:28.139 --> 00:15:30.519 slow down. If anything, his choices have become 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:32.580 more eclectic and demanding. I mean, he isn't 00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:35.460 just coasting on legacy cameos. Not at all. Just 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:37.919 look at the seamless genre hopping. In 2015, 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.539 he reunites with director Bill Condon for Mr. 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:43.480 Holmes. He delivers this deeply nuanced quiet 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.259 performance as a 93 old Sherlock Holmes whose 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:49.179 mind is failing. Beautiful film. And then two 00:15:49.179 --> 00:15:51.320 years later he's doing voiceover as a talking 00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:54.240 clock, Cogsworth, in Disney's live -action Beauty 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.700 and the Beast. Talk about range. Meanwhile he's 00:15:56.700 --> 00:15:58.879 starring in an ITV sitcom called Vicious with 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:01.659 Derek Jacoby playing a bickering elderly gay 00:16:01.659 --> 00:16:04.200 couple. And the thing is he approaches the sitcom 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.419 with the exact same commitment to the text as 00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:08.480 he does to a classic tragedy. That's what makes 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.000 it so good. And he never left the stage either. 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.500 In 2021, at the age of 82, he plays the title 00:16:14.500 --> 00:16:17.320 role in an age -blind production of Hamlet. an 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:19.659 82 -year -old Hamlet. It's unbelievable. And 00:16:19.659 --> 00:16:23.080 the physical toll of theater is real. In 2024, 00:16:23.299 --> 00:16:25.419 during a West End run of Player Kings, where 00:16:25.419 --> 00:16:27.759 he was playing Falstaff, he fell off the front 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.159 of the stage during a fight scene. Oh, that was 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:32.299 terrifying when that news broke. The show was 00:16:32.299 --> 00:16:34.740 canceled and the audience was dismissed, but 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:37.320 he miraculously recovered, was reported to be 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.639 in good spirits shortly after, and simply moved 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.399 on. Even though medical advice forced him to 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.659 pull out of the rest of the run, he is practically 00:16:44.659 --> 00:16:47.879 indestructible. He really embodies the ethos 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:50.980 of the poet Dylan Thomas. Do not go gentle into 00:16:50.980 --> 00:16:54.059 that good night. He is actively raging against 00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:56.539 the dying of the light through pure creative 00:16:56.539 --> 00:16:59.399 output. And the pipeline of that output is staggering. 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.919 He is looking ahead to reprising his role as 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.420 Magneto in Avengers Doomsday, which is slated 00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:07.599 for 2026. Amazing. And returning as Gandalf in 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.380 The Hunt for Gollum in 2027, he will be pushing 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:12.859 90 years old, actively anchoring the world's 00:17:12.859 --> 00:17:15.480 most lucrative, physically demanding cinematic 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.619 universes. It's unheard of. But amidst all this 00:17:18.619 --> 00:17:21.200 high stakes global blockbuster work, there is 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.099 this brilliantly quirky side. Since 2021, he 00:17:25.099 --> 00:17:28.660 and ABBA member Bjorn Ulvaeus have been posting 00:17:28.660 --> 00:17:31.099 social media videos of themselves knitting Christmas 00:17:31.099 --> 00:17:33.980 jumpers together. I've seen those. They even 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:36.640 agreed to knit stage wear for Kylie Minogue's 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.859 Las Vegas residency. OK, wait. A knight of the 00:17:39.859 --> 00:17:43.420 realm, Magneto Gandalf, spending his downtime 00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:45.960 knitting with ABBA for Kylie Minogue. It's the 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.509 best thing ever. It completely shatters every 00:17:48.509 --> 00:17:51.089 pretentious stereotype of what a serious classical 00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:53.170 actor is supposed to act like in their Twilight 00:17:53.170 --> 00:17:55.750 years. What we're witnessing is a master class 00:17:55.750 --> 00:17:58.549 and living joyfully and without pretense. He 00:17:58.549 --> 00:18:00.809 takes his craft incredibly seriously. Right, 00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:03.849 the work itself. Yes, the preparation, the respect 00:18:03.849 --> 00:18:06.150 for the text, the physical performance that is 00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:08.529 sacred terrain for him. But he clearly never 00:18:08.529 --> 00:18:10.690 takes himself too seriously. Not for a second. 00:18:10.890 --> 00:18:12.990 He has completely stripped away the ego of the 00:18:12.990 --> 00:18:15.450 great actor archetype. He is simply enjoying 00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:17.990 the process of creating, whether that involves 00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:20.410 delivering a Shakespearean monologue, wielding 00:18:20.410 --> 00:18:22.769 a wizard staff, or purling a knitted jumper. 00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:24.930 So, to bring it all together for you listening. 00:18:25.130 --> 00:18:27.769 We've traced the trajectory of a man whose life 00:18:27.769 --> 00:18:31.430 began in the literal shadow of a world war. A 00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:34.210 truly incredible journey. He took that early 00:18:34.210 --> 00:18:37.490 proximity to tragedy and used it to forge a boundless 00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:40.210 theatrical imagination. He mastered the classical 00:18:40.210 --> 00:18:43.390 stage, forcefully bent the film industry to accept 00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:46.170 him on his own terms through sheer talent and 00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:48.789 became the beating heart of the biggest fantasy 00:18:48.789 --> 00:18:51.829 worlds ever put on screen. All by treating genre 00:18:51.829 --> 00:18:54.430 fiction with absolute psychological respect. 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:57.490 And crucially, he utilized his own personal truth, 00:18:57.910 --> 00:18:59.910 stepping out of the shadows of a rigid society, 00:19:00.490 --> 00:19:03.210 to advocate for equality. He demonstrated that 00:19:03.210 --> 00:19:05.490 living authentically isn't just a political act. 00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:08.750 It is the fundamental key to unlocking personal 00:19:08.750 --> 00:19:11.130 freedom and artistic brilliance. Which leaves 00:19:11.130 --> 00:19:12.930 us with a final thought for you to take away 00:19:12.930 --> 00:19:15.549 today. We've seen how Ian McKellen consistently 00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:18.289 refused to let society dictate his timeline. 00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:21.029 Time and time again. He had an indie film breakthrough 00:19:21.029 --> 00:19:23.750 in his 50s. He became a global action star in 00:19:23.750 --> 00:19:26.569 his 60s. He played an age blind Hamlet in his 00:19:26.569 --> 00:19:28.710 80s and he's booking superhero movies for his 00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:31.910 late 80s. He constantly redefined what was expected 00:19:31.910 --> 00:19:33.990 of him at every single age. So if you think about 00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:37.730 your own life, what script or societal timeline 00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:41.259 are you currently accepting as absolute Are you 00:19:41.259 --> 00:19:43.779 telling yourself it's too late for a pivot? Or 00:19:43.779 --> 00:19:45.960 that you have to stay confined to the box your 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.019 career or background put you in? That's a great 00:19:48.019 --> 00:19:50.640 question. And what would happen if, like, that 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.640 young boy who once slept under a steel plate 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:55.440 and decided the entire world was his stage? You 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:56.559 simply decided to rewrite it.