WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.859 Imagine, you show up at a friend's house, and 00:00:03.859 --> 00:00:05.960 you think you're just there to hang out. Right, 00:00:05.980 --> 00:00:08.019 maybe have a few drinks, listen to some records. 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:10.140 Exactly. But the second you walk through the 00:00:10.140 --> 00:00:12.699 door, your friend just shoves you into this sweltering 00:00:12.699 --> 00:00:16.120 commercial kitchen. Hands you a chef's knife, 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:18.839 points to this massive mountain of raw ingredients, 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:22.100 and just says, hey, we have 50 hungry people 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:24.739 out there. Start cooking. That sounds incredibly 00:00:24.739 --> 00:00:26.940 stressful. Right, because you didn't plan on 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:28.600 it. You were prepared for it. In fact, you don't 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:31.079 even know how to cook. Yeah. But suddenly you 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:34.200 are entirely responsible for the meal. So welcome 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:37.100 to this deep dive. Glad to be here. Today we're 00:00:37.100 --> 00:00:42.259 diving into the really chaotic archives of a 00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:45.380 1980s Australian rock band called the Vanilla 00:00:45.380 --> 00:00:48.100 Chainsauce. Such a great name. It is, right? 00:00:48.539 --> 00:00:50.579 And we're trying to answer this massive question. 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:54.320 How do you keep a creative vision alive when 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.000 your entire team is basically falling apart? 00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:59.799 Especially when, you know, you didn't even want 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:01.799 to lead the team in the first place. Exactly. 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.939 We're using their run, which was from like 1986 00:01:04.939 --> 00:01:09.260 to 1995, as a lens for you to explore the sheer 00:01:09.260 --> 00:01:13.120 messy reality of creative collaboration. Yeah, 00:01:13.219 --> 00:01:15.280 and the struggle to capture that raw energy. 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:17.939 And the incredibly serendipitous nature of making 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:20.439 art. Because that kitchen analogy I just mentioned, 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:23.219 that is the exact phenomenon of how this band 00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:25.400 started. I love this origin story. So let's set 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:29.159 the scene. It's 1986 in Sydney, Australia. You've 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:32.400 got frontman Simon John Drew and guitarist Mark 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:35.200 Alexander. OK. And according to Drew himself, 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:37.519 he and Mark were absolutely not trying to start 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:39.739 a band. It just... wasn't on their radar at all. 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:41.579 Right, they were just hanging out. Yeah, but 00:01:41.579 --> 00:01:43.859 two other guys, drummer Peter L .W. Kelly and 00:01:43.859 --> 00:01:46.420 bassist Cameron Lee, essentially cornered them. 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:48.719 They practically bullied them into it. They literally 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:50.540 did. They said, if you're going to start a band, 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.019 we want to be the rhythm section. What's fascinating 00:01:53.019 --> 00:01:56.849 here is... the psychological starting point for 00:01:56.849 --> 00:01:59.670 this whole endeavor. How so? Well, we have this 00:01:59.670 --> 00:02:02.370 deeply ingrained kind of romanticized cultural 00:02:02.370 --> 00:02:05.549 narrative that great creative projects always 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:08.509 begin with, like a singular burning vision. Oh, 00:02:08.509 --> 00:02:11.370 sure. The tortured artist in the garage. Exactly. 00:02:11.849 --> 00:02:14.509 We love the myth of the lone genius dreaming 00:02:14.509 --> 00:02:17.530 of changing the world, but the origin of the 00:02:17.530 --> 00:02:20.340 vanilla chainsaws completely subverts that myth. 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.599 Right. It reminds us that some of the most interesting 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.620 complex projects don't start from grand individual 00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:31.039 ambition. They start from spontaneous, almost 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.939 aggressive peer encouragement. Like someone just 00:02:33.939 --> 00:02:35.979 pushing you into the deep end. Yes. It's that 00:02:35.979 --> 00:02:38.939 external push. Someone looks at you, sees a potential 00:02:38.939 --> 00:02:40.879 that you haven't even articulated to yourself 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:44.020 yet and forces your hand. They volunteer you 00:02:44.020 --> 00:02:45.520 for the mission before you even know what the 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:47.979 mission is. But I mean, when you're bullied in 00:02:47.849 --> 00:02:50.969 to forming a band by your friends, you inherently 00:02:50.969 --> 00:02:53.490 lack a master plan. You definitely. You don't 00:02:53.490 --> 00:02:56.509 have a five -year roadmap or a clearly defined 00:02:56.509 --> 00:02:59.349 brand identity. Yeah. And that total lack of 00:02:59.349 --> 00:03:03.050 a plan is, well, exactly what led to one of the 00:03:03.050 --> 00:03:05.969 most confusing debut singles of 1987. Oh, this 00:03:05.969 --> 00:03:07.860 is where it gets... Really good. Okay, let's 00:03:07.860 --> 00:03:09.479 unpack this. Let's paint a picture of the environment 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:12.580 first. If you're an indie rock band in 1980s 00:03:12.580 --> 00:03:14.759 Sydney, you're playing the pub circuit. Right, 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.219 the sweaty pub circuit. Sticky, beer -soch carpets, 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.860 aggressive crowds, and incredibly loud, visceral 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:24.659 music. It's an environment built on raw power, 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:28.719 heavily influenced by bands like ACDC or the 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.620 Angels. It is profoundly anti - pretension. Totally 00:03:31.620 --> 00:03:34.159 anti - pretension. So keep that setting in mind. 00:03:34.270 --> 00:03:38.189 It's August 1987, and the Vanilla Chainsaws released 00:03:38.189 --> 00:03:41.150 their debut single on Phantom Records. It's called 00:03:41.150 --> 00:03:44.250 T .S. Was it really me? And a reviewer at the 00:03:44.250 --> 00:03:46.509 time, Steve Gardner, from a publication called 00:03:46.509 --> 00:03:49.310 Noise for Heroes, describes the track as having 00:03:49.310 --> 00:03:52.310 a, quote, thick, dense guitar sound. Which fits 00:03:52.310 --> 00:03:55.289 the pub rock mold perfectly. Exactly. But then 00:03:55.289 --> 00:03:57.210 he notes that the lyrics are entirely about turn 00:03:57.210 --> 00:03:59.349 -of -the -century industrialization and cities 00:03:59.349 --> 00:04:02.969 of gray. and the TS in the title. It stands for 00:04:02.969 --> 00:04:06.229 the 1920s modernist poet, T .S. Eliot. Wow. They 00:04:06.229 --> 00:04:07.750 literally quote him in the middle of this heavy 00:04:07.750 --> 00:04:10.150 rock song. And I have to be honest here, quoting 00:04:10.150 --> 00:04:12.689 a modernist poet in a sweaty Sydney pub just 00:04:12.689 --> 00:04:14.990 sounds unbearably pretentious to me. I can see 00:04:14.990 --> 00:04:17.490 why you'd say that. Like, why do you think an 00:04:17.490 --> 00:04:20.569 indie rock band from 80s Sydney felt the need 00:04:20.569 --> 00:04:23.509 to mix heavy guitar riffs with early 20th century 00:04:23.509 --> 00:04:26.050 poetry? Were they actually being intellectual 00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:28.910 or just slapping a smart sounding name on a song 00:04:28.910 --> 00:04:30.610 to hide the fact that they barely knew what they 00:04:30.610 --> 00:04:32.810 were doing? It's easy to view it as a gimmick, 00:04:32.949 --> 00:04:35.850 sure, but I argue it was actually a highly deliberate 00:04:35.850 --> 00:04:38.769 strategic move. Really? Yeah. When an emerging 00:04:38.769 --> 00:04:42.110 band drops a T .S. Eliot reference into a wall 00:04:42.110 --> 00:04:45.730 of distorted guitars in 1987 Australia, they 00:04:45.730 --> 00:04:48.810 are basically engineering cognitive dissonance. 00:04:49.250 --> 00:04:51.569 OK, explain that. Well, as you pointed out, the 00:04:51.569 --> 00:04:54.470 pub rock scene was visceral. It was anti -pretentious. 00:04:54.709 --> 00:04:57.629 So by injecting highbrow modernist literature 00:04:57.629 --> 00:05:00.649 into a thick, heavy guitar track, the vanilla 00:05:00.649 --> 00:05:03.310 chainsaws are signaling this intellectual ambition 00:05:03.310 --> 00:05:05.350 right out of the gate. I see. They're trying 00:05:05.350 --> 00:05:07.990 to elevate standard genre tropes. into something 00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:10.329 highly thematic. It's a bold statement of intent. 00:05:10.910 --> 00:05:12.629 They are essentially saying to the listener, 00:05:12.930 --> 00:05:14.810 yes, we are loud enough to make your ears ring, 00:05:14.870 --> 00:05:16.769 but we are also demanding that you pay attention 00:05:16.769 --> 00:05:19.560 to the text. Huh. They're demanding you read 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:21.480 the syllabus before you come to the mosh pit. 00:05:22.060 --> 00:05:24.579 That is exactly the dynamic they're aiming for. 00:05:24.899 --> 00:05:27.740 They completely subverted the audience's expectations. 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.740 Right. If you walked into a pub expecting a standard 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:33.579 aggressive rock set about drinking or rebellion, 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:36.579 and instead you get a dense literary critique 00:05:36.579 --> 00:05:40.319 of urban decay and industrialization, it forces 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:42.819 you to listen closer. It's like a Trojan horse. 00:05:43.220 --> 00:05:46.199 Precisely. They use the raw physical power of 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.740 alternative rock as a Trojan horse to deliver 00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:51.579 complex ideas. But having those high concept 00:05:51.579 --> 00:05:55.920 ideas and a massive layered wall of sound... 00:05:55.740 --> 00:05:57.980 that runs straight into a brick wall when you 00:05:57.980 --> 00:05:59.980 actually try to record it. Oh, absolutely. The 00:05:59.980 --> 00:06:02.379 studio is a totally different beast. Right. It's 00:06:02.379 --> 00:06:05.220 a hurdle any new project faces, but it's a sparely 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:07.620 brutal when your output is that dense. We have 00:06:07.620 --> 00:06:10.740 this review from October 1987, written by Jim 00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:13.420 Dwyer in Thrunka Magazine. And Dwyer is completely 00:06:13.420 --> 00:06:15.879 conflicted about this debut, right? Totally conflicted. 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:18.259 He points out that the release clearly have a 00:06:18.259 --> 00:06:20.920 lot of energy, that energy seems, and I'm quoting 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:24.069 here, toned down in its production. Yeah. He 00:06:24.069 --> 00:06:26.509 goes on to say that if the band is as good live 00:06:26.509 --> 00:06:29.430 as all the local rumors suggest, the recorded 00:06:29.430 --> 00:06:33.310 song should explode into sheer energy, but somehow 00:06:33.310 --> 00:06:35.829 it just doesn't. It just falls flat. It sits 00:06:35.829 --> 00:06:38.290 flat on the record. Yeah. It makes me think about 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:42.850 trying to explain a wild, terrifying roller coaster 00:06:42.850 --> 00:06:45.529 ride to someone using nothing but a spreadsheet. 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:47.980 The roller coaster and the spreadsheet, that 00:06:47.980 --> 00:06:51.079 is a perfect analogy for what is happening here. 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.180 Because you can hand someone a spreadsheet that 00:06:53.180 --> 00:06:55.259 lists the exact speed of the roller coaster, 00:06:55.620 --> 00:06:58.160 the angle of the main drop, the specific gravitational 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:00.399 force you feel in the loop. Yeah, and the data 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:03.680 is technically 100 % accurate. Right. But the 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.779 spreadsheet completely fails to capture the visceral 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:09.160 thrill. It loses the wind whipping your face 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:11.319 and that awful, wonderful feeling of your stomach 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:13.259 dropping out. If we connect this to the bigger 00:07:13.259 --> 00:07:16.439 picture, what Jim Dwyer is isolating in that 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.620 Theronka review is the eternal agonizing friction 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:23.120 of artistic translation. Artistic translation. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:25.540 Yeah, because the recording studio and the live 00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:28.540 stage are two completely different mediums masquerading 00:07:28.540 --> 00:07:30.319 as the same art form. Yeah, that's a great point. 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.399 Think about the mechanics of a live show. When 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.399 a band plays a pub, they were relying on sheer 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:39.699 volume. They're literally moving physical air 00:07:39.699 --> 00:07:42.480 through a room with massive speaker cabinets. 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:45.379 You literally feel the bass in your chest. Exactly. 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:48.620 There's sweat. visual spectacle, and an immediate 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:51.360 electric feedback loop with the audience. The 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:54.259 energy is environmental. Now move that same band 00:07:54.259 --> 00:07:56.459 into a recording studio. Right. It's completely 00:07:56.459 --> 00:07:58.660 sterile. All of that environmental magic is stripped 00:07:58.660 --> 00:08:01.060 away. You're placed in an isolated, foam -padded 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:03.300 room. You're often wearing headphones, playing 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:05.860 along to a sterile clip track. Separated from 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:09.470 your bandmates by glass partitions. Yes. You're 00:08:09.470 --> 00:08:12.089 trying to artificially manufacture the energy 00:08:12.089 --> 00:08:15.449 of a riot in a completely sterile laboratory. 00:08:16.050 --> 00:08:18.550 For a band whose entire local reputation was 00:08:18.550 --> 00:08:21.629 built on being an explosive live act, that translation 00:08:21.629 --> 00:08:24.110 process is devastating. I can imagine. It requires 00:08:24.110 --> 00:08:26.089 a completely different skill set to make a piece 00:08:26.089 --> 00:08:28.850 of plastic or a digital file feel dangerous. 00:08:29.029 --> 00:08:30.889 Which is something you see in almost any industry, 00:08:30.910 --> 00:08:33.090 really. You have an incredible brainstorm session 00:08:33.090 --> 00:08:35.490 with your team. The energy is electric. The ideas 00:08:35.490 --> 00:08:37.350 are flowing. But then you have to put it in a 00:08:37.350 --> 00:08:40.159 PowerPoint. Exactly. When you try to formalize 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:42.659 it into a slide deck for the client, all the 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:45.820 life gets sucked out of it. The format basically 00:08:45.820 --> 00:08:48.159 muzzles the idea. It really does. And it seems 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:50.779 like that critique, that realization that their 00:08:50.779 --> 00:08:54.320 studio output felt muzzled, forced the vanilla 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:56.919 chainsaws to make a major pivot. Oh, definitely. 00:08:57.299 --> 00:09:00.460 Because by mid -1988, they release a five -track 00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:03.440 EP called Wine Dark Sea. It's produced by John 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:06.480 B. And suddenly, Steve Gardner from Noise for 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.360 Heroes is noting that the band seems to be actively 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:12.539 seeking more moderate tempos and more subtlety. 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:14.919 Right. They're moving away from just the supercharged 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:17.100 noise of those first singles. Yeah. They aren't 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:19.100 trying to force the roller coaster onto the spreadsheet 00:09:19.100 --> 00:09:21.519 anymore. They're designing a different kind of 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:23.779 ride altogether. Which demonstrates a remarkable 00:09:23.779 --> 00:09:26.000 level of self -awareness, honestly. Yeah. It 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.429 takes maturity to realize that... You cannot 00:09:28.429 --> 00:09:31.570 just turn the studio amplifiers up louder to 00:09:31.570 --> 00:09:34.750 artificially recreate a live show. They adapted 00:09:34.750 --> 00:09:37.610 to the constraints of the medium. Right. Leaning 00:09:37.610 --> 00:09:40.490 into the subtlety. Exactly. They realized that 00:09:40.490 --> 00:09:43.470 subtlety, pacing, and moderate tempos often translate 00:09:43.470 --> 00:09:46.850 much better to a recorded format than sheer unbroken 00:09:46.850 --> 00:09:50.190 volume. They stopped treating the studio as a 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:52.789 documentary tool meant to just record what they 00:09:52.789 --> 00:09:55.149 did on stage and started learning how to use 00:09:55.149 --> 00:09:58.149 the studio itself as an instrument. But that 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:02.009 quest for subtlety and a new, refined sound didn't 00:10:02.009 --> 00:10:04.970 just change the music. It completely broke the 00:10:04.970 --> 00:10:07.590 band apart. Oh, yeah. The logistics become a 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:09.669 nightmare here. The search for the right aesthetic 00:10:09.669 --> 00:10:12.149 reshaped who was actually playing the instruments. 00:10:12.710 --> 00:10:15.210 And this brings us to 1989, where the story turns 00:10:15.210 --> 00:10:18.330 into pure logistical chaos. Chaos is the right 00:10:18.330 --> 00:10:20.789 word. The band decides to make a massive global 00:10:20.789 --> 00:10:23.610 push. They sign to a German label, Glitterhouse 00:10:23.610 --> 00:10:25.470 Records, and they head overseas. They'd move. 00:10:25.669 --> 00:10:27.970 But almost immediately, the lineup turns into 00:10:27.970 --> 00:10:30.710 a revolving door. First, before the tour even 00:10:30.710 --> 00:10:32.649 really gets going, the original drummer, Peter 00:10:32.649 --> 00:10:35.190 Kelly, is out. He's replaced by D 'Wilio Hernandez. 00:10:35.350 --> 00:10:37.789 OK, one replacement, not too bad. Right. But 00:10:37.789 --> 00:10:40.090 then, for the United States and United Kingdom 00:10:40.090 --> 00:10:43.289 legs of the tour, a guy named Andrew Marx joins 00:10:43.289 --> 00:10:45.330 on drums. OK, so that's drummer number three. 00:10:45.730 --> 00:10:49.580 Wait, it gets worse. Marx leaves. So now, the 00:10:49.580 --> 00:10:52.440 band is in the middle of a European tour, scrambling. 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:55.259 They literally have to hire local German musicians, 00:10:55.779 --> 00:10:58.120 check off Helm K on drums and Henning Warner 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:01.159 on bass, just to finish the booked tour dates. 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:04.679 Wow. Just pulling people in off the street, essentially. 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.799 Basically, Simon Drew, the front man, has to 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:09.620 switch from singing to playing second guitar, 00:11:09.980 --> 00:11:11.970 and at other times he's playing bass. just to 00:11:11.970 --> 00:11:13.970 cover the gaping holes in the lineup. That is 00:11:13.970 --> 00:11:17.470 wild. And then in December 1989, they record 00:11:17.470 --> 00:11:19.870 their thousand EP in Germany, and they bring 00:11:19.870 --> 00:11:22.409 in yet another new drummer, Bill Walsh from the 00:11:22.409 --> 00:11:24.649 Cosmic Psychos, just for the studio session. 00:11:24.789 --> 00:11:26.970 So many drummers. I know. If you've ever had 00:11:26.970 --> 00:11:29.230 to take over a Massa group project at work because 00:11:29.230 --> 00:11:31.610 your entire team dropped the ball or quit, you 00:11:31.610 --> 00:11:33.909 know exactly how Mark Alexander and Simon Drew 00:11:33.909 --> 00:11:36.470 felt in Germany. It is the ultimate survival 00:11:36.470 --> 00:11:39.149 mode. Imagine the sheer friction of that reality. 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:42.039 You're thousands of miles from home, operating 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:44.759 in a pre -internet era. Oh man, yeah. No Craigslist 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:47.120 or social media. Right, you can't just post a 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.440 listing online to find a new bassist. You're 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:51.879 hiring local musicians who might not speak your 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.259 language natively, trying to teach them your 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:56.720 complex literary rock songs in the back of a 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:59.100 transit van, just so you don't breach your touring 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:01.720 contract. Here's where it gets really interesting 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:04.039 though. It reminds me of the ship of Theseus. 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:07.519 Ah, the classic philosophical paradox. Exactly. 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:11.159 If you replace the drummer, the bassist, and 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:14.279 use local fill -ins on a European tour, is it 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.840 still the vanilla chainsaws? Like what actually 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:19.409 makes a band a band? This raises an important 00:12:19.409 --> 00:12:21.870 question about the reality of indie rock survival 00:12:21.870 --> 00:12:24.850 because what you're seeing isn't a band playing 00:12:24.850 --> 00:12:27.950 musical chairs for fun. You're seeing the desperate 00:12:27.950 --> 00:12:31.409 necessary adaptability required to keep a project 00:12:31.409 --> 00:12:33.909 alive on a global scale with practically zero 00:12:33.909 --> 00:12:36.220 budget. At this point, the band had transitioned 00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:37.980 from being a fixed group of four friends from 00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:41.279 Sydney into this fluid, evolving idea. And that 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:43.480 idea was anchored entirely by Mark Alexander 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.320 and Simon Drew. Yes, they were the only two constants 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.879 through that entire European blur. It really 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:50.860 reminds me of a startup company where the entire 00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:53.720 development team quits the week before the product 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.539 launch. Oh, that's a great comparison. The founders, 00:12:56.899 --> 00:12:59.539 who maybe handle the marketing or the initial 00:12:59.539 --> 00:13:02.100 concept, are suddenly staying up until four in 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.080 the morning reading coding tutorials just to 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.600 keep the servers from crashing. Yep. That is 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:09.440 Simon Drew switching from lead vocals to second 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:12.620 guitar to bass. It isn't about artistic expression 00:13:12.620 --> 00:13:15.059 anymore. It's about keeping the lights on. They 00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:17.379 stopped being a traditional rock band and became 00:13:17.379 --> 00:13:19.899 project managers in leather jackets. I love that. 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:22.220 Project managers in leather jackets. As long 00:13:22.220 --> 00:13:25.659 as Alexander and Drew were there to dictate the 00:13:25.659 --> 00:13:28.179 aesthetic blueprint, you know, the thick guitars, 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.639 the underlying ethos, the T .S. Eliot references, 00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:33.779 the specific personnel holding the other instruments 00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:36.360 became entirely secondary to the survival of 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.399 the project itself. Just cogs in the machine 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.700 almost. Exactly. It strips away the romantic 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:44.919 illusion of a rock band as a perfect, inseparable 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:48.620 gang of brothers, and reveals it as a relentless, 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:51.600 pragmatic hustle. You swap members, you switch 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.279 instruments, you bring in a ringer from the cosmic 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:56.559 psychos for a recording session, you just do 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:59.159 whatever it takes to get to the next show. But 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.360 you can only sprint on that treadmill of survival 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:04.179 for so long before your brain completely fries. 00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:07.690 Absolutely. Burnout is inevitable. And that exhaustion 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:10.549 brings us to the final act of the vanilla chainsaws. 00:14:11.450 --> 00:14:13.830 After playing this chaotic game of member swapping 00:14:13.830 --> 00:14:16.190 across the United States, the UK, and Germany, 00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:18.929 the sheer fatigue of constantly training new 00:14:18.929 --> 00:14:21.629 people pushes the core founders back to square 00:14:21.629 --> 00:14:24.870 one. Back to Australia. Yes. It's late 1990. 00:14:25.350 --> 00:14:27.809 Alexander and Drew return to Australia. And in 00:14:27.809 --> 00:14:30.009 the surprising twist of fate, they reunite with 00:14:30.009 --> 00:14:33.370 Cameron Lee and Peter L .W. Kelly. Wait. The 00:14:33.370 --> 00:14:35.850 original guys? The exact two guys who cornered 00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:38.230 them in 1986 and bully them into forming the 00:14:38.230 --> 00:14:40.289 band in the first place. That is incredible. 00:14:40.509 --> 00:14:42.269 Right. They get back together for an Australian 00:14:42.269 --> 00:14:45.610 tour in April 1991. Now, it still gets a little 00:14:45.610 --> 00:14:47.710 messy from here. Of course it does. When they 00:14:47.710 --> 00:14:50.990 record their December 1991 album, Red Lights, 00:14:51.210 --> 00:14:53.470 which came out on Phantom Records, a new guy 00:14:53.470 --> 00:14:56.580 named Peter DJ Kelly joins on bass. Okay. but 00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:58.940 Cameron Lee also continues in the band playing 00:14:58.940 --> 00:15:02.240 bass. Two bassists. Yeah. And then Peter L .W. 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.679 Kelly, the original drummer, leaves again early 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.980 in 1992 to join the New Christs. The band finally 00:15:08.980 --> 00:15:12.840 officially dissolves for good in 1995. Across 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:17.360 a nine -year run, they had 12 12 members in 9 00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:19.899 years. That's exhausting. I have to ask you about 00:15:19.899 --> 00:15:23.000 this 1990 reunion. After traveling the world, 00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:25.299 getting a European record deal with Glitter House, 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:27.320 and playing with all these different international 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:29.879 session musicians, they go right back to the 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.000 two guys who forced them into the project back 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.299 in Sydney. It seems counterintuitive. It feels 00:15:34.299 --> 00:15:36.480 like giving up, doesn't it? Is this just a massive 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.179 retreat because they couldn't hack the global 00:15:38.179 --> 00:15:40.740 pressure? It's very easy to look at a band of 00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:42.600 retreating to their hometown and linking back 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:44.539 up with their amateur friends and label it a 00:15:44.539 --> 00:15:46.519 defeat, but I would argue it's not a retreat 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.279 at all. No, it's a homecoming. Think about the 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.500 difference between technical proficiency and 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:55.120 shared history. You can hire the best session 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:57.870 players in Germany. You can find technically 00:15:57.870 --> 00:16:00.970 flawless local musicians who can play your songs 00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:03.309 perfectly on a technical level. Right, the spreadsheet 00:16:03.309 --> 00:16:06.269 musicians. Exactly. But technical proficiency 00:16:06.269 --> 00:16:09.230 cannot manufacture the intangible weight of shared 00:16:09.230 --> 00:16:12.429 history. Returning to Lee and Kelly represents 00:16:12.429 --> 00:16:16.049 a profound, almost desperate desire to recapture 00:16:16.049 --> 00:16:19.129 the initial spontaneous spark that birthed the 00:16:19.129 --> 00:16:21.049 band. The spark from before they were project 00:16:21.049 --> 00:16:24.129 managers. Yes, exactly. It's a recognition by 00:16:24.129 --> 00:16:26.370 Alexander and Drew that while internet touring 00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:29.389 is an incredible milestone, the unique chemistry 00:16:29.389 --> 00:16:31.149 of the people who originally pushed you into 00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:33.610 the creative act is irreplaceable. That makes 00:16:33.610 --> 00:16:35.850 a lot of sense. Those original members shared 00:16:35.850 --> 00:16:38.490 the DNA of what the vanilla chainsaws were before 00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:40.570 they ever had to worry about glitter house records 00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:43.129 or language barriers or European tour logistics. 00:16:43.750 --> 00:16:46.269 Even with the later edition of Peter DJ Kelly 00:16:46.269 --> 00:16:49.750 on bass, alongside Lee also on bass, which by 00:16:49.750 --> 00:16:52.289 the way is an incredibly chaotic and muddy sonic 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:54.870 choice. Oh absolutely muddy. But the gravitational 00:16:54.870 --> 00:16:58.169 pull was always back toward the original, messy, 00:16:58.409 --> 00:17:01.330 enthusiastic genesis of the project. They wanted 00:17:01.330 --> 00:17:03.509 the comfort of the people who knew exactly what 00:17:03.509 --> 00:17:05.650 the band was supposed to feel like, not just 00:17:05.650 --> 00:17:07.930 what it was supposed to sound like. So as you 00:17:07.930 --> 00:17:10.569 are listening to this right now, how does the 00:17:10.569 --> 00:17:14.450 wild history of an obscure 1980s Australian rock 00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:18.019 band apply to your life? That's a great question. 00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:19.960 Think about the things you are building. Maybe 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.400 it's a startup company, a community organization, 00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:25.480 a massive group project at university, or even 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:27.839 just a long -term personal goal you've been grinding 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:30.940 away at for years. Yeah. The story of the vanilla 00:17:30.940 --> 00:17:35.079 chainsaws from 1986 to 1995 proves that an endeavor 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.680 does not need to last forever to be deeply meaningful. 00:17:38.019 --> 00:17:40.359 It doesn't need to maintain a perfect, unchanging 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.059 structure. You don't have to cross the finish 00:17:42.059 --> 00:17:43.779 line with the exact same team you had at the 00:17:43.779 --> 00:17:47.339 starting line. Exactly. A project can be a chaotic, 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:50.299 evolving collaboration. It can completely fracture. 00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:53.039 It can force you to frantically learn new skills 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:54.980 and switch roles just to keep the lights on. 00:17:55.019 --> 00:17:57.400 And it can still leave a mark. Right. They accomplished 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.920 a lot despite the chaos. They did. The vanilla 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.230 chainsaws released multiple EPs. two full -length 00:18:04.230 --> 00:18:07.849 albums and left a footprint in both the Australian 00:18:07.849 --> 00:18:11.630 and European alternative rock scenes. Chaos, 00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:14.750 turnover, and exhaustion do not invalidate the 00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:16.819 art you produce along the way. And if there is 00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:19.359 one lingering thought to take away from all of 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:22.279 this, it's about the hidden figures in any long 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:24.799 -term endeavor. Ooh, I like that. The historical 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:26.960 record of this band lists 12 different people 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:29.359 who rotated through the lineup. We've spent a 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:31.359 lot of time talking about the founders and the 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:33.960 key players, but there are names listed. People 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.440 like Sabina Collins, Gerard Prezlund, Murray 00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:39.319 Shepard, Rudy Morabito. All the people who cycled 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:41.940 through. Right. And their exact contributions, 00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:44.099 their specific moments of holding the rhythm 00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:46.450 together on a Tuesday night. in a sweaty pub 00:18:46.450 --> 00:18:49.509 are completely lost to the footnotes. The historical 00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:51.250 record doesn't even specify what years some of 00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:53.450 them played. That's kind of sad, actually. It 00:18:53.450 --> 00:18:56.130 is. But they were there. They held the structure 00:18:56.130 --> 00:18:58.490 together for a moment in time when it desperately 00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:00.890 needed holding. So think about the transient 00:19:00.890 --> 00:19:03.190 contributors in your own life's projects. Yeah. 00:19:03.450 --> 00:19:06.269 The people who step in for just one difficult 00:19:06.269 --> 00:19:09.490 quarter, one chaotic season, one stressful launch, 00:19:09.809 --> 00:19:13.210 and then quietly exit the narrative. How much 00:19:13.210 --> 00:19:15.390 of your final output, how much of your success 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:18.650 is secretly shaped by the people history forgets? 00:19:18.750 --> 00:19:20.789 That is a fascinating way to look at it. Keep 00:19:20.789 --> 00:19:22.890 digging into the hidden stories all around you 00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:24.869 and appreciate the people who show up to help 00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:26.710 you chop the ingredients when the kitchen gets 00:19:26.710 --> 00:19:28.589 overwhelming. We'll see you on the next Deep 00:19:28.589 --> 00:19:28.849 Dive.