WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.799 I want you to imagine a musician who directly 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:09.140 inspired the iconic 12 -string guitar sound of 00:00:09.140 --> 00:00:11.960 David Bowie. Right, which is huge in itself. 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:15.359 Yeah, massive. And a guy whose record was literally 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:18.280 a personal favorite of John Lennon. Oh, absolutely. 00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:20.920 Now, I want you to imagine that this exact same 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:24.199 guy... was the very first person to mentor a 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:27.039 young Bob Dylan, you know, back in those smoky, 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.579 dimly lit coffee houses in Minneapolis. Just 00:00:29.579 --> 00:00:31.500 kind of showing him the ropes? Exactly. I mean, 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:33.060 you would think this person would be a household 00:00:33.060 --> 00:00:36.380 name, right? Framed in gold on the wall of, like, 00:00:36.380 --> 00:00:38.719 every rock and roll museum on earth. You'd expect 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:40.700 documentaries. Box sets the whole nine yards. 00:00:40.820 --> 00:00:43.240 Yeah. Documentaries analyzing every single move 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:45.539 he made. But, and this is the crazy part, imagine 00:00:45.539 --> 00:00:47.840 that most people today have never even heard 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.399 his name. It really is one of the most, um... 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.380 glaring historical blind spots in modern music. 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:57.700 I mean, you were looking at someone who essentially 00:00:57.700 --> 00:01:00.020 drew up the architectural plans for the entire 00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:03.399 1960s folk and blues revival. He literally wrote 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:06.060 the blueprint. He did. Handed those plans over 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:09.739 and then just, well, quietly walked off the construction 00:01:09.739 --> 00:01:11.680 site before anyone could hand him a trophy. Which 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:14.769 brings us to today. Today's deep dive is into 00:01:14.769 --> 00:01:18.090 the life of Spider John Kerner. And we're pulling 00:01:18.090 --> 00:01:20.510 this entirely from his comprehensive Wikipedia 00:01:20.510 --> 00:01:23.569 biography. He was an American folk blues hero, 00:01:23.810 --> 00:01:26.430 an absolute master of the guitar, and a guy who 00:01:26.430 --> 00:01:29.530 possessed a very, very specific kind of genius. 00:01:29.870 --> 00:01:31.609 A genius that wasn't just about music, really. 00:01:31.769 --> 00:01:34.230 Right. And our mission here isn't just to, you 00:01:34.230 --> 00:01:37.049 know, recount music history or list off old album 00:01:37.049 --> 00:01:39.250 titles. We really want to uncover the blueprint 00:01:39.250 --> 00:01:42.329 of a man who fundamentally shaped a massive... 00:01:42.189 --> 00:01:45.670 boom, all while actively almost athletically 00:01:45.670 --> 00:01:47.950 dodging the fame that ended up consuming all 00:01:47.950 --> 00:01:50.250 of his peers. Which completely redefines what 00:01:50.250 --> 00:01:52.390 a successful life as an artist actually looks 00:01:52.390 --> 00:01:54.730 like, doesn't it? It kind of forces us to ask 00:01:54.730 --> 00:01:56.709 what we're actually chasing when we talk about 00:01:56.709 --> 00:01:58.469 ambition. It really does. Okay, let's unpack 00:01:58.469 --> 00:02:00.430 this. Because to understand how John Koerner 00:02:00.430 --> 00:02:03.030 built his musical legacy, we really have to look 00:02:03.030 --> 00:02:05.489 at how his mind worked, like, long before he 00:02:05.489 --> 00:02:07.489 ever picked up a guitar. Oh, for sure. His background 00:02:07.489 --> 00:02:11.159 is so unexpected. Yeah. He was born in 1938 in 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.680 Rochester, New York, and he comes from this long, 00:02:13.819 --> 00:02:16.280 traditional line of Methodist ministers. Right, 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:18.560 his father, his grandfather. Yep, even his great 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.240 grandfather, all ministers. But Corner takes 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:25.439 this sharp left turn. In 1956, he heads off to 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:27.900 the University of Minnesota, and he doesn't study 00:02:27.900 --> 00:02:30.750 theology. He doesn't even study music. No, he 00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:33.389 majors in aeronautical engineering. Aeronautical 00:02:33.389 --> 00:02:36.169 engineering. I know. And that engineering mindset 00:02:36.169 --> 00:02:39.270 is really the skeleton key to understanding everything 00:02:39.270 --> 00:02:41.110 he did later. Because he didn't stick with it. 00:02:41.310 --> 00:02:43.750 No, no. He dropped out in his second year to 00:02:43.750 --> 00:02:46.110 just travel the country. He even enlisted in 00:02:46.110 --> 00:02:49.349 the Marines for infantry training, which he actually 00:02:49.349 --> 00:02:51.349 had to leave after surviving a really serious 00:02:51.349 --> 00:02:54.750 car crash. Wow. Yeah. But the way he viewed the 00:02:54.750 --> 00:02:57.319 world, like through this lens of mechanics and 00:02:57.319 --> 00:02:58.960 structure that never left him. He didn't just 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.819 listen to music, he analyzed its load -bearing 00:03:01.819 --> 00:03:04.780 walls, so to speak. I love that. And that mechanical 00:03:04.780 --> 00:03:07.039 hands -on approach actually gave him his famous 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:09.919 nickname. Okay, the spider nickname. I gotta 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:13.379 say, I always assumed that was some kind of, 00:03:13.379 --> 00:03:16.680 you know, old blues moniker he adopted just to 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.520 sound cool, like Muddy or Howlin'. Not at all. 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:22.659 It actually came from a day job. He was working 00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:25.139 in an auto parts shop up in Minneapolis. Oh, 00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:28.060 really? Yeah. And he had these really long, lanky 00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:30.800 limbs. So instead of using a ladder, he had this 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:34.060 habit of literally scaling the storage shelves 00:03:34.060 --> 00:03:36.759 to reach spare parts. Just climbing up the racks. 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:39.199 Exactly. His coworkers would watch him crawling 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:40.699 up the metal racks, and they just started calling 00:03:40.699 --> 00:03:43.189 him Spider. That is such a great image. I mean, 00:03:43.330 --> 00:03:46.210 you have the son of a minister finding his calling 00:03:46.210 --> 00:03:49.229 not in the pulpit, but in the grease of an auto 00:03:49.229 --> 00:03:52.069 shop and ultimately the grid of the blues. To 00:03:52.069 --> 00:03:54.770 me, with that engineering back in, Corner sounds 00:03:54.770 --> 00:03:57.870 like the original hacker of the folk scene. That's 00:03:57.870 --> 00:03:59.750 a really good way to put it. Because he wasn't 00:03:59.750 --> 00:04:02.259 just strumming an instrument, right? He was basically 00:04:02.259 --> 00:04:04.460 reverse engineering it to see how the engine 00:04:04.460 --> 00:04:07.460 worked. He was. What's fascinating here is that 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:11.060 he had this compulsion to tinker that bordered 00:04:11.060 --> 00:04:13.400 on obsessive. Like he was an amateur astronomer. 00:04:13.539 --> 00:04:15.099 But instead of just going to a store and buying 00:04:15.099 --> 00:04:17.459 a telescope, he designed and built his own. Of 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:19.660 course he did. Right. He built a boat from scratch. 00:04:20.180 --> 00:04:22.800 He built his own harmonica stand out of just 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.399 like wire and scraps. There was even a piece 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:28.019 in city pages that described a makeshift lawnmower 00:04:28.019 --> 00:04:31.230 he assembled. Wait, what? Yeah, a lawnmower he 00:04:31.230 --> 00:04:34.029 built partly out of old bicycle parts. A bicycle 00:04:34.029 --> 00:04:36.050 lawnmower? Okay, see, that's bordering on mad 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:38.129 scientist territory right there. It really is. 00:04:38.589 --> 00:04:41.290 But he applied that exact same mechanical hacking 00:04:41.290 --> 00:04:44.110 to his primary instrument, the acoustic guitar. 00:04:44.529 --> 00:04:48.550 How so? Well, early on, he met the legendary 00:04:48.550 --> 00:04:52.329 Tennessee bluesman Big Joe Williams. Now, Williams 00:04:52.329 --> 00:04:54.610 played this highly customized nine -string guitar. 00:04:55.180 --> 00:04:57.540 Kornor looked at that and thought, I can re -engineer 00:04:57.540 --> 00:05:00.379 my own setup to get a bigger sound. So he modified 00:05:00.379 --> 00:05:02.920 his standard acoustic into a seven string. OK, 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:04.500 wait. Break that down for me. I'm not a guitar 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:06.459 tech. What does adding one string, because I 00:05:06.459 --> 00:05:08.600 know he tuned it an octave apart, right? Right. 00:05:08.660 --> 00:05:11.360 He added a second G string, tuned an octave apart 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:13.240 from the standard one. So what does that actually 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.360 do to the sound? Why go through all that trouble? 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.839 So when you tune a string an octave apart, you're 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.079 hitting the exact same musical note. but at a 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:23.939 higher pitch. When you strike that chord, you 00:05:23.939 --> 00:05:27.160 get this incredibly rich, resonant doubling effect. 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.160 It creates this continuous vibrating hum, like 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:33.300 a drone underneath the main melody. And like 00:05:33.300 --> 00:05:35.860 a bagpipe. Similar concept, yeah. But in the 00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:38.040 context of the blues, it actually mimics the 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.399 sound of traditional West African string instruments, 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.319 like a conting, which is basically the ancestor 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.529 of the banjo. It anchors the rhythm. Wow. So 00:05:46.529 --> 00:05:48.850 by making this one mechanical alteration to his 00:05:48.850 --> 00:05:52.129 guitar, Kerner was able to sound like two people 00:05:52.129 --> 00:05:54.449 playing at the same time. That is brilliant. 00:05:54.689 --> 00:05:56.970 Yeah, this hands -on approach to just rebuilding 00:05:56.970 --> 00:06:00.089 his physical surroundings, it perfectly set the 00:06:00.089 --> 00:06:02.550 stage for how he was about to deconstruct the 00:06:02.550 --> 00:06:05.889 whole folk blues genre itself in the 1960s. He 00:06:05.889 --> 00:06:07.949 wasn't just playing traditional music. He was 00:06:07.949 --> 00:06:10.389 modifying the machinery of the genre. And he 00:06:10.389 --> 00:06:12.769 brought that modified machinery right into the 00:06:12.769 --> 00:06:14.649 heart of the Minneapolis music scene, right? 00:06:14.769 --> 00:06:17.930 This is early 1960s. He forms this loose knit 00:06:17.930 --> 00:06:21.129 trio with Dave Ray and Tony Glover. Colonel Ray 00:06:21.129 --> 00:06:24.629 and Glover. Exactly. And in 1963, they release 00:06:24.629 --> 00:06:27.939 an album called Blues Rags and Haulers. I know 00:06:27.939 --> 00:06:30.399 it made a splash, but the ripples of this record 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:32.620 reached way further than I think most people 00:06:32.620 --> 00:06:35.279 realize. The shockwaves were staggering, honestly. 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:37.279 You mentioned John Lennon earlier. Yeah. Lennon 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:40.720 actually gave an interview in 1964 where he explicitly 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.920 called out blues, rags, and hollers as a personal 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.120 favorite. Which is huge. The Beatles were exploding 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.660 then. Exactly. But the David Bowie connection 00:06:48.660 --> 00:06:52.459 is even more revealing, I think. In 2016, Bowie 00:06:52.459 --> 00:06:55.279 told Vanity Fair that this specific album is 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:57.540 what introduced him to the sound of the 12 -string 00:06:57.540 --> 00:07:00.819 guitar. No way. Yeah. Bowie actually said Kerner's 00:07:00.819 --> 00:07:03.800 group demolished the, quote, puny vocalizations 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.639 of folk trios like the Kingston Trio. He said 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:08.379 they showed everyone how it should actually be 00:07:08.379 --> 00:07:12.069 done. Demolish the puny vocalizations. That is 00:07:12.069 --> 00:07:14.350 such a vivid, distinctly Bowie way to put it. 00:07:14.470 --> 00:07:17.230 It really is. But it makes perfect sense. If 00:07:17.230 --> 00:07:20.430 you think about the folk music that was commercially 00:07:20.430 --> 00:07:23.209 popular right before that moment, groups like 00:07:23.209 --> 00:07:27.589 the Kingston Trio, it was very sanitized. It 00:07:27.589 --> 00:07:31.230 was guys in mashing striped sweaters, singing 00:07:31.230 --> 00:07:34.990 very polite, perfectly polished harmonies. Bowie 00:07:34.990 --> 00:07:37.370 recognized that Karner was bringing the dirt 00:07:37.370 --> 00:07:39.990 and the grit back into the music. It was raw. 00:07:40.170 --> 00:07:42.730 It was incredibly authentic. And that rawness 00:07:42.730 --> 00:07:46.009 is exactly what drew a young Bob Dylan to him. 00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:48.689 Koerner was actually the very first musician 00:07:48.689 --> 00:07:51.050 Dylan met when he arrived in Minneapolis. At 00:07:51.050 --> 00:07:52.870 a place called the Ten O 'Clock Scholar, right? 00:07:52.949 --> 00:07:55.110 Yep, a coffee house in Dinkytown. Dylan actually 00:07:55.110 --> 00:07:57.629 writes about this in his autobiography, Chronicles, 00:07:57.829 --> 00:08:00.189 and he paints this incredible portrait of Koerner. 00:08:00.550 --> 00:08:03.209 He describes him as tall and thin with a look 00:08:03.209 --> 00:08:05.610 of perpetual amusement on his face. Which is 00:08:05.610 --> 00:08:07.569 a great description. And he notes something really 00:08:07.569 --> 00:08:10.189 fascinating. Dylan says Koerner was saw spoken 00:08:10.189 --> 00:08:12.490 in regular conversation, but the second he started 00:08:12.490 --> 00:08:16.149 singing, he transformed into a field holler shouter. 00:08:16.209 --> 00:08:18.689 Oh, that term is so important. A field holler 00:08:18.689 --> 00:08:21.069 goes all the way back to the antebellum south. 00:08:21.970 --> 00:08:25.230 It was unaccompanied vocal music sung by enslaved 00:08:25.230 --> 00:08:28.329 people in the fields. It's loud, it's highly 00:08:28.329 --> 00:08:30.810 rhythmic, and it's meant to carry across vast 00:08:30.810 --> 00:08:32.710 distances. Right, it has to cut through the air. 00:08:33.009 --> 00:08:35.769 Exactly. It's the absolute emotional bedrock 00:08:35.769 --> 00:08:39.269 of the blues. So when Dillon says Koerner sounded 00:08:39.269 --> 00:08:42.289 like a field holler shouter, he means Koerner 00:08:42.289 --> 00:08:46.070 had this booming, unvarnished power that completely 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.450 bypassed all that polite coffeehouse etiquette. 00:08:48.629 --> 00:08:50.529 He just blew the doors off the place. Basically, 00:08:50.629 --> 00:08:52.490 yeah. And because Koerner was a few years older 00:08:52.490 --> 00:08:55.029 and already kind of an established force, he 00:08:55.029 --> 00:08:56.950 took Dillon under his wing, he taught him folk 00:08:56.950 --> 00:08:59.049 and blues songs, and they played together constantly. 00:08:59.370 --> 00:09:01.090 Here's where it gets really interesting, though. 00:09:01.210 --> 00:09:03.529 If you look at Koerner's role here, he is basically 00:09:03.529 --> 00:09:05.850 acting like the open source software developer 00:09:05.850 --> 00:09:08.889 of the 1960s folk scene. Oh, I like that analogy. 00:09:08.990 --> 00:09:11.070 Right. He wrote the foundational code and then 00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:13.809 he just freely gave it away. He mentored the 00:09:13.809 --> 00:09:16.029 guy who would literally become the voice of a 00:09:16.029 --> 00:09:18.269 generation without ever aggressively demanding 00:09:18.269 --> 00:09:21.929 a patent or glory or royalties for being the 00:09:21.929 --> 00:09:24.929 catalyst. And Koerner's reflection on that time 00:09:24.929 --> 00:09:27.830 is just wonderfully grounded. He later said, 00:09:28.049 --> 00:09:30.690 we were all doofy. You know, we were thinkers 00:09:30.690 --> 00:09:33.330 and drinkers and artists and players, and Dylan 00:09:33.330 --> 00:09:36.350 was one of us. He's another guy. No ego at all. 00:09:36.590 --> 00:09:39.429 None. There was no myth making in Corner's mind. 00:09:39.529 --> 00:09:41.509 They were just people figuring it out together. 00:09:42.210 --> 00:09:45.029 If we connect this to the bigger picture, that 00:09:45.029 --> 00:09:48.269 open source mentality really came from his philosophy 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:50.210 regarding art and tradition. How do you mean? 00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:53.269 Well, he and his bandmates were massive record 00:09:53.269 --> 00:09:56.049 collectors. They deeply studied old folk and 00:09:56.049 --> 00:09:58.909 blues discs from labels like Folkways Records, 00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:01.789 which was essentially the sonic archive of American 00:10:01.789 --> 00:10:04.009 history. But he wasn't just a historian trying 00:10:04.009 --> 00:10:06.669 to perfectly recreate a museum piece, was he? 00:10:06.929 --> 00:10:09.610 No, and that's the crucial distinction. Corner 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:12.090 told an interviewer that listening to those old 00:10:12.090 --> 00:10:13.809 records made him realize that if you want to 00:10:13.809 --> 00:10:16.230 be like those legendary bluesmen, you don't copy 00:10:16.230 --> 00:10:19.279 them. Right. Instead, you steal from them and 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:21.179 write your own stuff. Steal the essence, not 00:10:21.179 --> 00:10:24.539 the exact notes. Exactly. The music writer Elijah 00:10:24.539 --> 00:10:27.179 Wald pointed out that Kerner was unique because 00:10:27.179 --> 00:10:29.600 he was one of the few young white artists in 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.779 that revival who shaped completely personal style. 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:36.120 He didn't just awkwardly try to mimic older black 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.919 performers. He digested the history and re -engineered 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.419 it to something entirely new. OK, so let's look 00:10:42.419 --> 00:10:44.559 at where this puts him. It's the mid to late 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.360 60s. His influence is at an absolute boiling 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:51.279 point. He's recorded a solo album for Electra 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:54.720 Records. And in 1965, he plays the legendary 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:57.259 Newport Folk Festival. Which, we should really 00:10:57.259 --> 00:10:59.419 clarify for anyone who doesn't know, was the 00:10:59.419 --> 00:11:01.720 center of the musical universe for this genre. 00:11:01.779 --> 00:11:03.879 The ultimate stage. If you were on the main stage 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:06.460 at Newport in 1965, you have been officially 00:11:06.460 --> 00:11:09.519 anointed by the culture. Right. And then in 1969, 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:12.019 he teams up with Willie Murphy and releases an 00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:14.259 album called Running, Jumping, Standing Still. 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:16.759 Crawdaddy magazine actually called it perhaps 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:19.639 the only psychedelic ragtime blues album ever 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:21.919 made. Which sounds like a total contradiction 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:24.419 in terms. Because ragtime is highly structured, 00:11:24.659 --> 00:11:27.460 right? Heavily syncopated music. And psychedelic 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:30.620 rock is mind expanding, chaotic, heavily reliant 00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:33.460 on studio effects. But he made it work. Fusing 00:11:33.460 --> 00:11:36.340 the two was a massive critical triumph. Bonnie 00:11:36.340 --> 00:11:38.460 Raitt even covers one of his songs on her debut 00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:41.139 album shortly after. So the trajectory is locked 00:11:41.139 --> 00:11:44.500 in. He is standing at the threshold of massive 00:11:44.500 --> 00:11:48.659 global rock star fame. And what does he do? He 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:52.220 hits the brakes. Hard. Unbelievably hard. He 00:11:52.220 --> 00:11:55.059 splits up the duo in the early 1970s, officially 00:11:55.059 --> 00:11:57.500 retires from music, and just moves across the 00:11:57.500 --> 00:12:00.279 world to Copenhagen, Denmark. Yep. And he doesn't 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:04.240 go there to be like a tortured expatriate artist 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:06.840 living in a villa off his royalties. He tries 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.840 his hand at filmmaking. He makes this unsuccessful 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.120 black and white film called The Secret of Sleep. 00:12:12.139 --> 00:12:14.940 Right. And to make ends meet, he works as a bartender. 00:12:15.019 --> 00:12:17.039 He works as a department store cleaner. He literally 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.129 works in a porcelain factory. incredibly abrupt 00:12:20.129 --> 00:12:23.330 transition from the main stage at Newport to 00:12:23.330 --> 00:12:25.450 switching the floors of a Danish department store. 00:12:25.610 --> 00:12:27.649 See I have to push back here because I am trying 00:12:27.649 --> 00:12:29.029 to wrap my head around this. I know it's wild. 00:12:29.259 --> 00:12:31.919 You're telling me he voluntarily traded the momentum 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.600 of the entire 1960s counterculture, having David 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.419 Bowie taking notes from him, having Bob Dylan 00:12:38.419 --> 00:12:40.659 looking up to him to work the graveyard shift 00:12:40.659 --> 00:12:43.179 in a porcelain factory? Yeah. I'm sorry, but 00:12:43.179 --> 00:12:45.100 that sounds like he was running from something 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:47.620 or dealing with major burnout. You can't just 00:12:47.620 --> 00:12:50.259 call that artistic freedom. It looks like massive 00:12:50.259 --> 00:12:53.799 self -sabotage. I hear you. And from the outside, 00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:56.100 it absolutely looks like throwing the winning 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.879 lottery ticket out the window. Exactly. raises 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.440 an important question about what winning the 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.980 lottery actually meant in the music industry 00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:06.840 at that time. We are so conditioned to believe 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.419 that the ultimate goal of any creative endeavor 00:13:09.419 --> 00:13:13.179 is maximum scale, maximum wealth, stadium tours, 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.840 global fame. Sure. But Kerner saw the machinery 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:19.779 of fame and his engineering brain recognized 00:13:19.779 --> 00:13:23.340 that it was a meat grinder. You mean the toxicity 00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:26.399 of the 70s rock scene? Just look at his contemporaries, 00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:29.279 Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, the 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.539 burnout, the substance abuse, the total loss 00:13:31.539 --> 00:13:33.940 of autonomy. Koerner operated on a completely 00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:35.500 different metric. He didn't want any part of 00:13:35.500 --> 00:13:39.480 that machine. Exactly. Years later, in a 2013 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.279 interview with Record Collector magazine, he 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:44.759 directly addressed his lack of fame compared 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:48.559 to people like Dylan or Bonnie Raitt. And his 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.600 answer is incredibly revealing. What'd he say? 00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:54.039 He said, I think you have to really want that 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:56.679 kind of success and adulation. And I'm just not 00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:58.600 like that. It's just not in my character to go 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:00.659 chasing after fame. It's not in my character. 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:03.539 I guess if you view fame as a full -time job 00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:07.179 of maintaining an ego, walking away isn't sabotage 00:14:07.179 --> 00:14:09.460 at all. It's self -preservation. Precisely. He 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:11.700 stepped away when he needed to. He lived a normal 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:14.019 life. Yeah. And when his interest in music eventually 00:14:14.019 --> 00:14:16.340 returned, it was entirely on his own terms. Right. 00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:19.019 He formed a new band in Denmark. shifted his 00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:21.059 focus more toward traditional acoustic folk, 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:23.659 and eventually moved back to Minneapolis. He 00:14:23.659 --> 00:14:26.600 put out the 1974 album, some American folk songs 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.240 like these, too. I want you, the listener, to 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:32.519 pause and think about that. You're probably commuting 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:34.799 right now, or maybe sitting at your desk trying 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.639 to climb your own career ladder. Imagine getting 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.799 to the very top rung, looking around at the view 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.340 and saying, actually, the air is too thin up 00:14:43.340 --> 00:14:45.879 here. I'd rather go do something quiet and completely 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.879 ordinary. It defies everything we're taught about 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:52.019 ambition. It really does. But the irony is his 00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:54.720 return to Minneapolis sparked a whole new chapter 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:58.019 that was deeply sustainable. Because Korner refused 00:14:58.019 --> 00:15:00.860 to chase global superstardom, he was able to 00:15:00.860 --> 00:15:03.740 cultivate something arguably much more enduring. 00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:07.860 He created a profoundly localized living legacy 00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:11.110 right in his own neighborhood. He became practically 00:15:11.110 --> 00:15:13.490 an institution at Palmer's Bar on the West Bank 00:15:13.490 --> 00:15:15.970 in Minneapolis. He spent so much time there, 00:15:15.990 --> 00:15:18.649 he literally had his daily newspaper delivered 00:15:18.649 --> 00:15:20.029 to the bar. That's how you know you're a regular. 00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:22.889 Seriously. And when they shot the 2005 Matt Dillon 00:15:22.889 --> 00:15:25.490 film, Factotum, at Palmer's, Corner was right 00:15:25.490 --> 00:15:27.549 there as an extra, just sitting at the bar in 00:15:27.549 --> 00:15:30.450 his natural habitat. And his community fiercely 00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:32.669 recognized his value, didn't they? Oh, absolutely. 00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:35.350 He was inducted into the Minnesota Music Academy 00:15:35.350 --> 00:15:37.960 Hall of Fame. in the Minnesota Blues Hall of 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:40.220 Fame. And his influence bled into other art forms 00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:42.799 too. Yeah, the sci -fi writer Spider Robinson 00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:46.100 even adopted the first name Spider out of pure 00:15:46.100 --> 00:15:48.419 admiration for Koerner's music. That's incredible. 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.419 And then there's the star on the outside mural 00:15:50.419 --> 00:15:52.860 of the First Avenue nightclub. Alright, the legendary 00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:55.379 venue. For anyone who knows Minneapolis, getting 00:15:55.379 --> 00:15:57.419 your name painted in one of those stars on the 00:15:57.419 --> 00:15:59.940 outside of First Avenue is the holy grail. It's 00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:02.700 not some award bought by a PR firm or decided 00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:05.639 by a corporate committee. It's an honor recognized 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.700 performers who have made a major visceral contribution 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:12.019 to the culture of that specific city. It is arguably 00:16:12.019 --> 00:16:14.840 the most prestigious public honor an artist can 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.559 receive in Minneapolis. It's a permanent mark 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:19.600 on the physical landscape of the city he helped 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.759 shape. Sadly, Kerner passed away from bile duct 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:26.779 cancer in May of 2024 at the age of 85. Yeah. 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:29.779 So... What does this all mean? How do you wrap 00:16:29.779 --> 00:16:32.019 up the story of a guy who built the ship but 00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:34.279 completely refused to sail it into the corporate 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:36.620 harbor? I think you have to look at how he dispersed 00:16:36.620 --> 00:16:39.179 his worldly musical possessions at the very end. 00:16:39.700 --> 00:16:41.879 Okay. When he officially played his retirement 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.639 shows and stepped away from performing in 2023, 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:48.220 he had two primary instruments. He took his 12 00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:51.720 -string Epiphone guitar and donated it to Palmer's 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:54.580 bar. Right. His favorite spot. It sat there in 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:57.179 a glass display case, and when Palmer's eventually 00:16:57.179 --> 00:16:59.980 changed hands and closed for a bit, it was gifted 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:02.340 to the nearby Cedar Cultural Center, where it 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:05.200 sits in the lobby today. A museum piece, essentially. 00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:07.819 A relic of the neighborhood behind glass. Right. 00:17:08.420 --> 00:17:11.279 But then, he takes his other primary instrument, 00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:15.059 his 12 -string Gretsch guitar, and he gives it 00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:17.500 to his friend. a fellow blues musician named 00:17:17.500 --> 00:17:19.599 Charlie Parr. Okay. But he does just hand it 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.440 over as a keepsake. He gives it with a specific 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:25.220 directive. He demands that Parr continue using 00:17:25.220 --> 00:17:28.160 it on stage. Wow. That actually changes the whole 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.480 perspective on his legacy. To give away your 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.420 main instrument but demand it keeps working. 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.099 It's the musical equivalent of planting a tree 00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:38.019 knowing you will never sit in its shade. He was 00:17:38.019 --> 00:17:40.200 actively ensuring that the music, the physical 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:43.480 vibration of the strings, outlives the man. It 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:46.019 perfectly reinforces his core operating value, 00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:49.079 doesn't it? Knowledge, art and physical instruments 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.769 are meant to be used, not hoarded. Definitely. 00:17:51.990 --> 00:17:54.349 His legacy isn't just historical data trapped 00:17:54.349 --> 00:17:57.750 in a Wikipedia biography. It's a living, breathing 00:17:57.750 --> 00:18:01.049 thing that is physically still being played out 00:18:01.049 --> 00:18:03.710 loud on stages today under those hot lights. 00:18:03.829 --> 00:18:06.230 He hacked the guitar, he hacked the folk genre, 00:18:06.230 --> 00:18:08.809 and ultimately he hacked the concept of legacy 00:18:08.809 --> 00:18:11.509 itself. That brings us right to you, the listener. 00:18:11.890 --> 00:18:14.369 We live in an era that is completely obsessed 00:18:14.369 --> 00:18:16.950 with virality. We are constantly told from the 00:18:16.950 --> 00:18:19.130 minute we wake up that we need to build our brand, 00:18:19.329 --> 00:18:22.049 you know, Chase Clout. optimize our output, and 00:18:22.049 --> 00:18:24.809 just engage in this relentless cycle of self 00:18:24.809 --> 00:18:27.150 -promotion. It's exhausting. It is. And Spider 00:18:27.150 --> 00:18:29.369 John Corner's life is a masterclass in doing 00:18:29.369 --> 00:18:31.890 what you love purely for the joy of the craft. 00:18:32.150 --> 00:18:34.230 It's a reminder that true success doesn't always 00:18:34.230 --> 00:18:36.430 have to look like sold out stadium tours and 00:18:36.430 --> 00:18:39.450 private jets. Sometimes it's much simpler. Sometimes 00:18:39.450 --> 00:18:42.029 ultimate success looks like playing the music 00:18:42.029 --> 00:18:45.210 you love entirely on your own terms and having 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:47.390 your daily newspaper delivered to your favorite 00:18:47.390 --> 00:18:49.920 local bar where everybody knows your name. It 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:52.839 is a profound rejection of the ego that usually 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.500 drives not just the entertainment industry, but 00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:57.880 so much of modern life. It really is. And it 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.019 leaves us with something to think about. When 00:19:00.019 --> 00:19:02.380 Spider -John gave his Gretsch guitar to Charlie 00:19:02.380 --> 00:19:04.640 Parr, he demanded that it stay out in the world 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.440 under the stage lights rather than sitting silently 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.839 behind a pane of glass. It makes you wonder what 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:12.839 is the instrument in your own life that you are 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:15.400 busy polishing for a museum when you really should 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:17.119 be passing it to someone who will keep playing 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:19.869 it. Keep digging, keep listening, and we'll catch 00:19:19.869 --> 00:19:21.009 you on the next deep dive.