WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.599 Imagine a man sitting in a maximum security prison 00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:08.179 cell. Okay. He is currently serving four consecutive 00:00:08.179 --> 00:00:11.460 life sentences, plus an additional 110 years. 00:00:11.740 --> 00:00:13.779 Which is just a mathematically staggering amount 00:00:13.779 --> 00:00:15.599 of time. Right. The federal government's basically 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.199 done everything in its power to permanently erase 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:20.640 this guy from society. Yeah. Legally speaking, 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:24.019 he's a ghost. Exactly. But now I want you to 00:00:24.019 --> 00:00:26.899 imagine that this same man is simultaneously 00:00:26.899 --> 00:00:30.359 charting on Spotify algorithms. Oh. Wow. His 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:32.920 voice is touring the globe right now, reaching 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:36.039 millions of listeners on a 2024 hip hop album. 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:38.799 It really defies all logic. It totally does. 00:00:39.700 --> 00:00:42.179 Welcome to today's Deam Dive. We are taking the 00:00:42.179 --> 00:00:44.280 source material on a man named Donald Green, 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.600 though he's much better known to the streets 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:50.200 and the culture as Sly Green. Right, Sly Green. 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:53.100 And we're unpacking a story of massive ambition. 00:00:53.689 --> 00:00:57.450 wild hubris, and a modern day cultural afterlife 00:00:57.450 --> 00:00:59.950 that completely breaks the standard biographical 00:00:59.950 --> 00:01:02.549 mold. It's the absolute definition of a history 00:01:02.549 --> 00:01:05.469 that, you know, just refuses to stay in the past. 00:01:05.790 --> 00:01:08.030 We're looking at a highly ambitious American 00:01:08.030 --> 00:01:11.349 drug trafficker, a gangster, and the founder 00:01:11.349 --> 00:01:14.150 of the notorious L .A. Boys Gang in Buffalo, 00:01:14.170 --> 00:01:16.730 New York. Right out of Buffalo. Yeah. And the 00:01:16.730 --> 00:01:19.189 sheer scale of this story, both financially and 00:01:19.189 --> 00:01:21.370 psychologically, is what makes it such a compelling 00:01:21.370 --> 00:01:24.189 case study. So our mission today is to figure 00:01:24.189 --> 00:01:28.170 out exactly how a local Buffalo kingpin built 00:01:28.170 --> 00:01:31.980 an empire. with a $50 million vision. A massive 00:01:31.980 --> 00:01:34.159 vision. Yeah. And then we'll look at the unbelievable 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.500 audacity that led to his downfall and somehow 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:40.079 how he managed to remain this prominent voice 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:43.019 in culture decades after the cell door locked. 00:01:43.180 --> 00:01:46.019 It's a wild ride. It really is. OK, let's unpack 00:01:46.019 --> 00:01:47.659 this because we have to start with the sheer 00:01:47.659 --> 00:01:50.260 geographical audacity of this entire operation. 00:01:50.379 --> 00:01:52.680 We really do. We're talking about the 1980s and 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.939 the 90s here. Sly Green, born in Buffalo, founds 00:01:55.939 --> 00:01:57.939 this crew and they call themselves the LA Boys. 00:01:58.060 --> 00:02:00.819 Right. And they didn't get that name because 00:02:00.819 --> 00:02:02.359 they were wearing Lakers jerseys or something. 00:02:02.420 --> 00:02:04.540 No, definitely not. The name came directly from 00:02:04.540 --> 00:02:06.859 their logistics. They were sourcing their supply 00:02:06.859 --> 00:02:11.419 of narcotics all the way from Los Angeles. All 00:02:11.419 --> 00:02:13.360 the way across the country. Exactly. Think about 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:16.159 the physical distance there. You are moving illegal 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.520 product from the Pacific coast all the way across 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.159 the entire country to upstate New York. Right. 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:24.479 What's fascinating here is the staggering level 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:27.240 of organizational capability that actually requires. 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.419 Yeah, I mean, setting up an LA to Buffalo pipeline 00:02:30.419 --> 00:02:33.819 in that era is like trying to run an Amazon distribution 00:02:33.819 --> 00:02:36.560 network. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, your delivery 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:38.740 trucks are constantly at risk of being hijacked, 00:02:39.099 --> 00:02:41.099 the product carries a mandatory minimum prison 00:02:41.099 --> 00:02:43.180 sentence, and you're coordinating your whole 00:02:43.180 --> 00:02:45.259 logistics department on public pay phones. And 00:02:45.259 --> 00:02:47.599 you're doing it with untraceable cash that physically 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:49.719 weighs more than the product itself. Oh, wow. 00:02:49.979 --> 00:02:51.560 I didn't even think about the weight of the cash. 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.680 Yeah, it's massive. And popular culture often 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:58.539 conditions us to think of a gang as this hyperlocal 00:02:58.539 --> 00:03:01.280 neighborhood crew fighting over just a few blocks. 00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:05.000 Right, like turf wars. Exactly. But organizations 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.960 operating on the transcontinental scale of the 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.639 LA boys, these are complex, corporate -level 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:14.599 enterprises. Maintaining a supply chain across 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:18.430 2 ,500 miles in the 80s meant managing couriers, 00:03:18.789 --> 00:03:21.289 bribing the right people across multiple state 00:03:21.289 --> 00:03:23.870 lines. Right, the logistics are insane. Yeah, 00:03:23.969 --> 00:03:26.110 and anticipating law enforcement, maintaining 00:03:26.110 --> 00:03:29.430 strict operational security without any encrypted 00:03:29.430 --> 00:03:31.990 digital communications. No signal or WhatsApp 00:03:31.990 --> 00:03:34.250 back then. None at all. Well, the sources show 00:03:34.250 --> 00:03:36.330 it paid off astronomically for them. They were 00:03:36.330 --> 00:03:40.229 making millions. Millions. But Sly Green... wasn't 00:03:40.229 --> 00:03:43.090 just coasting on being a millionaire. Court evidence 00:03:43.090 --> 00:03:45.770 later revealed he was actively plotting to make 00:03:45.770 --> 00:03:48.129 50 million dollars off these deals. It's hard 00:03:48.129 --> 00:03:52.129 to even fathom. 50 million? in the 80s and 90s. 00:03:52.669 --> 00:03:55.430 If you adjust that for inflation, you're looking 00:03:55.430 --> 00:03:59.710 at well over $120 million today. That is a mid 00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:02.469 -sized, legitimate corporation. It really is. 00:04:02.830 --> 00:04:05.469 And conceptualizing an illicit enterprise of 00:04:05.469 --> 00:04:09.090 that magnitude requires a deeply visionary, albeit 00:04:09.090 --> 00:04:12.810 destructive mind. To scale to a $50 million target, 00:04:13.229 --> 00:04:14.930 you're no longer just selling on the street. 00:04:15.030 --> 00:04:18.810 You are managing macroeconomic forces. Wow, macroeconom 00:04:18.810 --> 00:04:20.949 - Yeah, you have to understand shifting market 00:04:20.949 --> 00:04:24.170 demand, manage massive operational overhead, 00:04:24.790 --> 00:04:27.529 and ruthlessly eliminate any local competition 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:29.870 that threatens those profit margins. And he built 00:04:29.870 --> 00:04:33.490 this corporate structure using these deeply entrenched 00:04:33.490 --> 00:04:36.110 familial and neighborhood networks. Right. Trust 00:04:36.110 --> 00:04:39.519 is everything. Exactly. Sly's brother Clayton 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:41.920 Green who went by the legendary moniker iceberg 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:43.860 iceberg, right? Yeah He was a core member of 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:46.439 the LA boys and what really stands out in the 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.199 sources is the resilience of these networks How 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:52.459 do you mean well the LA boys golden era was the 00:04:52.459 --> 00:04:55.220 80s and 90s, right? But the records note that 00:04:55.220 --> 00:04:57.519 iceberg was actually arrested in a police raid 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:02.699 in 2006 where cocaine was found. Oh, wow. 2006. 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:05.160 Yeah, that is decades after the initial rise 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.459 of the gang. If a legitimate tech startup loses 00:05:07.459 --> 00:05:10.079 its CEO, the whole thing solds in a month. But 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:12.620 here, the infrastructure survives. It perfectly 00:05:12.620 --> 00:05:15.519 illustrates how deeply rooted illicit economies 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.060 become within a community. When the leadership 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:21.720 of a legitimate business is removed, the corporation 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:25.009 dissolves. But in the underworld, the demand 00:05:25.009 --> 00:05:27.629 remains completely constant. People still want 00:05:27.629 --> 00:05:31.410 the product. Exactly. The trade routes, the clandestine 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:34.230 connections, the methods of evasion, they're 00:05:34.230 --> 00:05:36.550 passed down or absorbed by the next generation. 00:05:37.009 --> 00:05:40.139 The infrastructure simply adapts. But, you know, 00:05:40.220 --> 00:05:42.759 an organization moving $50 million of product 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:45.860 across state lines faces a massive vulnerability. 00:05:46.180 --> 00:05:48.399 Yeah. Enforcement. Right. You don't have corporate 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:50.360 lawyers to enforce your contracts. You don't 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:53.420 have an HR department for disputes. No, you definitely 00:05:53.420 --> 00:05:55.899 don't. So when a rival tries to undercut your 00:05:55.899 --> 00:05:58.259 supply chain, how do you protect your market 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:00.620 share without a legal system? You resort to the 00:06:00.620 --> 00:06:03.379 streets. Exactly. Which brings us to the day 00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:06.569 -to -day reality in Buffalo. The LA boys were 00:06:06.569 --> 00:06:09.509 notorious for their extreme violence. Very notorious. 00:06:09.629 --> 00:06:11.569 They became one of the most powerful gangs in 00:06:11.569 --> 00:06:13.889 the area. And there is this one specific incident 00:06:13.889 --> 00:06:16.850 in the sources that reads like an absolute hallucination. 00:06:16.930 --> 00:06:20.810 Oh, the car chase. Yes. Sly Green is involved 00:06:20.810 --> 00:06:23.689 in this high -speed vehicle pursuit. He's chasing 00:06:23.689 --> 00:06:26.529 down a rival dealer known as Fat Richard. Right, 00:06:26.670 --> 00:06:30.389 Fat Richard. And during this chase, at high speeds, 00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:33.649 Sly Green literally attempts to jump out of his 00:06:33.649 --> 00:06:37.300 car and into Fat Richard's moving vehicle. It's 00:06:37.300 --> 00:06:39.860 just, it's unbelievable. He is trying to board 00:06:39.860 --> 00:06:43.459 a rival's car, like a pirate boarding a galleon 00:06:43.459 --> 00:06:45.920 on the interstate. Yeah. I mean, I have to push 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:47.639 back on the mastermind label here for a second. 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.000 OK, go ahead. If you are the CEO of a $50 million 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:54.149 enterprise, Why are you doing pirate boardings 00:06:54.149 --> 00:06:56.290 on the highway? It sounds counterintuitive. It 00:06:56.290 --> 00:06:59.089 seems incredibly reckless. Doesn't this completely 00:06:59.089 --> 00:07:01.769 contradict the image of a strategic corporate 00:07:01.769 --> 00:07:04.149 operator? I mean, it looks completely absurd 00:07:04.149 --> 00:07:06.550 to a civilian, sure. It looks like an action 00:07:06.550 --> 00:07:08.730 movie stunt rather than a boardroom strategy. 00:07:09.110 --> 00:07:11.670 But in the illicit economy, the rules of leadership 00:07:11.670 --> 00:07:15.120 and market dominance are entirely inverted. Inverted 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.980 how? Extreme violence and audacious displays 00:07:17.980 --> 00:07:20.399 of fearlessness. They act as both your marketing 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.620 department and your primary deterrent. Wait, 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:24.480 marketing? Yeah. Are you saying the violence 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.180 isn't just a loss of temper, but like an actual 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:30.279 calculated deterrent? Exactly. Like hanging a 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.000 trespassers will be shot sign on a 50 million 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.779 dollar bank vault. That is exactly the mechanism 00:07:35.779 --> 00:07:39.879 at play. Sly Green cannot sue Fat Richard in 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:41.980 civil court for encroaching on his territory, 00:07:41.980 --> 00:07:44.819 right? Right, obviously not. So in a world completely 00:07:44.819 --> 00:07:47.620 devoid of legal protection, your reputation for 00:07:47.620 --> 00:07:50.579 being unhinged, for being willing to cross lines 00:07:50.579 --> 00:07:52.939 that other people are simply too terrified to 00:07:52.939 --> 00:07:55.800 approach that, is your ultimate armor. Oh, wow. 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:58.899 I see. The game theory of the streets dictates 00:07:58.899 --> 00:08:01.500 that your rational behavior is actually a strategic 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:04.579 asset. Because it makes you unpredictable. Exactly. 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:07.540 When the story circulates through Buffalo, that 00:08:07.540 --> 00:08:09.980 sly green will literally launch his body into 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:12.519 your moving car during a high -speed chase just 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:14.920 to get his hands on you. The calculus for his 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:17.100 rivals changes. Yeah, nobody wants to deal with 00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:19.079 that. Right. Who's going to want to steal from 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:22.420 a man who seemingly has no instinct for self 00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:25.439 -preservation? So the sheer recklessness is actually 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.740 this deeply calculated asset. It is. You're broadcasting 00:08:28.740 --> 00:08:31.839 a message to the entire city. Do not mess with 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.100 my supply lines, because I am not bound by the 00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:37.779 normal laws of human survival. It's terrifying, 00:08:38.259 --> 00:08:40.539 but the internal logic is actually completely 00:08:40.539 --> 00:08:43.899 sound. It secures absolute loyalty from subordinates 00:08:43.899 --> 00:08:46.620 and forced compliance from rivals. Right. The 00:08:46.620 --> 00:08:49.519 danger, however, is that the mindset required 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:52.539 to launch yourself between moving cars doesn't 00:08:52.539 --> 00:08:54.659 simply switch off when the environment changes. 00:08:54.860 --> 00:08:56.820 Ah, yeah. The environment definitely changed. 00:08:57.059 --> 00:08:59.799 The very audacity that builds the empire is almost 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:02.480 universally the exact trait that brings it crashing 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.460 down. And that transition from the streets to 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:08.200 the cell is jarring because that audacity didn't 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:10.980 just follow him. It handed the authorities the 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:13.399 exact tools they needed to destroy him. It really 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:15.120 did. Here's where it gets really interesting. 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:19.029 In 1991, green. is arrested on murder charges. 00:09:19.409 --> 00:09:21.690 Okay. He is sitting in a holding facility. Put 00:09:21.690 --> 00:09:23.450 yourself in that environment for a second. You 00:09:23.450 --> 00:09:26.129 are facing life behind bars. Right, the stakes 00:09:26.129 --> 00:09:28.549 couldn't be higher. The smart play is absolute 00:09:28.549 --> 00:09:32.850 silence. Speak to no one. But what does Sly Green 00:09:32.850 --> 00:09:36.509 do? He talks. He shows another inmate a collection 00:09:36.509 --> 00:09:39.529 of newspaper clippings about the LA boys. It's 00:09:39.529 --> 00:09:42.289 just wild. He is literally pointing at the articles, 00:09:42.309 --> 00:09:44.909 bragging, saying, these are my guys. This is 00:09:44.909 --> 00:09:46.980 what they're doing. Why? I mean, it's like bringing 00:09:46.980 --> 00:09:50.279 a heavily researched portfolio of your own felonies 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:53.440 to a networking event. Ha! Yeah, that's exactly 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:55.519 what it is. I'm really trying to deduce the logic 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.620 here. He's already in custody for murder, and 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.220 he is essentially providing a masterclass on 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:04.919 his ongoing active criminal enterprise to the 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:07.840 guy in the bunk next to him. This raises an important 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.659 question about the psychology of criminal hubris. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:12.960 Yeah, explain that to me. Well, at a certain 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:15.139 point in the life cycle of a gangster of this 00:10:15.139 --> 00:10:18.639 magnitude, the bland overtakes the biological 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.279 instinct for survival. The brand. Yeah. Sly Green 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:25.980 spent years meticulously cultivating this mythical, 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:28.320 untouchable status in Buffalo. Right, jumping 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.720 between cars and all that. Exactly. The LA boys 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.159 weren't just a business. They were his entire 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:36.379 identity. Wow, yeah. To sit in a concrete cell 00:10:36.379 --> 00:10:38.899 and be reduced to just an inmate number that 00:10:38.899 --> 00:10:41.159 was likely a psychological impossibility for 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.720 him. He couldn't handle being a nobody. Right. 00:10:44.100 --> 00:10:47.019 Those newspaper clippings were his proof of existence. 00:10:47.500 --> 00:10:49.580 They were tangible evidence that he mattered, 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:52.759 that he manipulated the world outside those walls. 00:10:53.299 --> 00:10:55.759 Even if that proof was literally handing federal 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:58.899 prosecutors the exact narrative they needed to 00:10:58.899 --> 00:11:01.740 dismantle his life's work. Exactly. It's a fatal 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:04.340 blind spot. His desperate need for recognition 00:11:04.340 --> 00:11:07.580 completely eclipsed his strategic intelligence. 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.659 Yeah. And the justice system, which had been 00:11:10.659 --> 00:11:13.179 tracking the chaos of the LA boys for years, 00:11:13.539 --> 00:11:15.899 was perfectly positioned to capitalize on that 00:11:15.899 --> 00:11:17.600 ego. Oh, they didn't just capitalize. They dropped 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:19.840 a nuclear bomb on the organization. They really 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:21.820 did. Let's talk about the sweep that followed, 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:25.919 because it was structural and just. Devastating. 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:30.700 On March 30th, 1994, after a grueling seven -week 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:33.580 trial presided over by Judge John Thomas Curtin, 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:37.100 27 members of the gang were found guilty. 27 00:11:37.100 --> 00:11:40.700 at once. Yeah. And the charges were heavy. Racketeering, 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.500 conspiracy, obstruction of justice. Very serious 00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:46.200 charges. For anyone not familiar with how these 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:49.240 specific laws work, a seven -week trial with 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:52.279 27 co -defendants isn't just a standard prosecution. 00:11:52.490 --> 00:11:55.470 Not at all. How does a law like racketeering 00:11:55.470 --> 00:11:58.169 actually function to take down a whole empire 00:11:58.169 --> 00:12:00.710 all at once? Well, it's a phenomenal legal tool, 00:12:00.929 --> 00:12:03.190 and it's specifically designed to pierce the 00:12:03.190 --> 00:12:06.509 corporate veil of a street gang. Normally, a 00:12:06.509 --> 00:12:09.450 boss like Sly Green insulates himself, right? 00:12:10.029 --> 00:12:12.730 He gives an order, but the foot soldiers commit 00:12:12.730 --> 00:12:15.919 the actual crimes. So his hands are clean, technically. 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.860 Exactly. If you arrest the foot soldier for selling 00:12:18.860 --> 00:12:22.539 drugs, the boss remains untouched. But racketeering 00:12:22.539 --> 00:12:26.139 laws like ICO allow prosecutors to draw a massive 00:12:26.139 --> 00:12:29.379 legal circle around the entire group. They prove 00:12:29.379 --> 00:12:32.039 that the organization itself is a corrupt enterprise. 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:35.360 Once they establish that the LA boys exist as 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.759 a racketeering enterprise, the leadership can 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:40.240 be held directly responsible for the murders, 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.899 the drug trafficking, and the extortion committed 00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:45.250 by anyone within that circle. That's incredibly 00:12:45.250 --> 00:12:48.549 powerful. It is. They aren't prosecuting 27 isolated 00:12:48.549 --> 00:12:50.850 incidents, they're prosecuting the organism itself. 00:12:51.110 --> 00:12:53.730 Which explains the sheer scale of the convictions. 00:12:54.169 --> 00:12:55.909 They essentially cut off the head and the limbs 00:12:55.909 --> 00:12:58.370 simultaneously. Exactly. And we really have to 00:12:58.370 --> 00:13:01.730 highlight the prosecution side of this war. Attorney 00:13:01.730 --> 00:13:05.169 William J. Hochul Jr. was a frequent formidable 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:07.570 adversary to Green and his associates. He was 00:13:07.570 --> 00:13:10.250 relentless. He really was. He was the one who 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:13.169 argued those massive 1994 convictions. Right. 00:13:13.450 --> 00:13:16.090 And his campaign didn't end there either. He 00:13:16.090 --> 00:13:19.409 later argued the 1996 murder trial of another 00:13:19.409 --> 00:13:22.690 core L .A. boys member, George Powell, known 00:13:22.690 --> 00:13:25.789 as Dog. Dog Powell, yeah. Hochul seemed to treat 00:13:25.789 --> 00:13:28.909 the L .A. boys not just as criminals, but as 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:31.330 a systemic virus that needed to be aggressively 00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:34.309 eradicated from Buffalo's bloodstream. It was 00:13:34.309 --> 00:13:37.289 a highly coordinated campaign of judicial eradication. 00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:39.750 Yeah. The state recognized the 50 million dollar 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:42.149 ambition. They recognized the transcontinental 00:13:42.149 --> 00:13:44.789 logistics and they responded with overwhelming 00:13:44.789 --> 00:13:47.269 legal force. And they didn't hold back. No, they 00:13:47.269 --> 00:13:49.669 needed to make an absolute undeniable example 00:13:49.669 --> 00:13:51.929 out of Sly Green. And the numbers definitely 00:13:51.929 --> 00:13:55.269 reflect that. Green tried to fight it. He appealed, 00:13:55.269 --> 00:13:58.230 but he was found guilty again on March 27th, 00:13:58.309 --> 00:14:01.919 1997. Right. Interestingly, He had actually filed 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:04.720 a request for his trial to be extended, but that 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.159 was firmly denied in December of that year. The 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.500 courts were done humoring him. Exactly. Then 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:13.600 the hammer finally falls. The sentence handed 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.419 down to Donald Slygreen was just staggering. 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.700 It's unbelievable. Four consecutive life sentences 00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:24.240 plus 110 years. Yeah. Four life sentences plus 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.720 a century is obviously a mathematical impossibility 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:29.980 for a human lifespan. Unless it's a vampire or 00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:32.940 something. Exactly. But it serves a profound 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:35.879 symbolic function. Right. The justice system 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:38.360 is using that number to communicate a message 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.879 to the public and specifically to any rival gangs 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.279 watching the outcome. Send a message. Yeah. They're 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:47.940 stating unequivocally that this individual is 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.340 being conceptually erased from human society. 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.139 Erased. It's the ultimate period at the end of 00:14:53.139 --> 00:14:54.940 the sentence. And logically that should be the 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.299 end of the tape, right? You would think so. You 00:14:57.299 --> 00:14:59.460 lock someone in a box for multiple lifetimes, 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.500 you throw away the key, and public memory naturally 00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:06.509 moves on. Neighborhoods change, streets get repaved, 00:15:06.649 --> 00:15:09.470 new names pop up, and the old kingpins just sort 00:15:09.470 --> 00:15:12.429 of fade into obscure cautionary tales. They become 00:15:12.429 --> 00:15:15.370 ghosts. Right, he should be a ghost. So what 00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:18.090 does this all mean? We are back to our initial 00:15:18.090 --> 00:15:22.129 paradox. Yes. How do we reconcile a man who is 00:15:22.129 --> 00:15:25.679 physically exiled from society? permanently entombed 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.639 in the federal prison system, but who is currently 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.860 touring the globe via Spotify algorithms. If 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:34.019 we connect this to the bigger picture, it really 00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:36.820 requires a pivot from examining criminal justice 00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:39.519 to examining the mechanics of cultural preservation. 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:41.720 Cultural preservation, okay. Yeah. The state 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.659 mandated erasure, but the culture issued a reprieve. 00:15:44.740 --> 00:15:46.960 Oh, that's a great way to put it. Because decades 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.159 after Judge Curtin handed down that mathematically 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:52.049 impossible sentence, Sly Green's name is thriving. 00:15:52.190 --> 00:15:55.049 It really is. He is frequently and prominently 00:15:55.049 --> 00:15:57.590 mentioned by acclaimed Buffalo rappers like Westside 00:15:57.590 --> 00:16:00.309 Gunn and Benny the Butcher. Very prominent figures 00:16:00.309 --> 00:16:03.649 in hip hop right now. Huge figures and the context 00:16:03.649 --> 00:16:06.769 here is vital. Both of these artists have been 00:16:06.769 --> 00:16:09.610 very open about being drug dealers themselves 00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:13.700 in Buffalo during the 90s and 2000s. Right. They 00:16:13.700 --> 00:16:16.679 share the exact same geography, the exact same 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.500 concrete as the LA Boys. And that's the key. 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:22.159 They aren't researching him in a municipal archive. 00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:25.019 No, definitely not. They lived in the geopolitical 00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:28.240 environment that Sly Green's $50 million ambition 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.720 violently shaped. The blast radius of the LA 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.059 Boys literally formed the conditions of their 00:16:34.059 --> 00:16:36.600 youth. Exactly. And it bleeds directly into the 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:39.740 art. Like, Benny the Butcher has a track. literally 00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:42.500 titled Sly Green on his critically acclaimed 00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:45.840 2020 album, Burdened of Proof. Great album. Yeah. 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:48.779 And West Side Gun featured Green on the Sly Green 00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.519 skit all the way back on his 2016 album, Fly 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:53.980 God. Right. But then it escalates to a surreal 00:16:53.980 --> 00:16:57.259 level in 2024. On West Side Gun's EP, titled 00:16:57.259 --> 00:16:59.779 11, Sly Green is featured on every single song. 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.480 Think about the mechanics of that. You have a 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.920 man calling from a federal penitentiary, likely 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.420 using a heavily monitored prison phone system, 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:11.240 and his voice is being layered over premium studio 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.029 production. seamlessly integrated into modern 00:17:14.029 --> 00:17:17.410 hip hop and pushed to millions of listeners worldwide. 00:17:17.690 --> 00:17:21.190 It's wild. And it clearly shows how hip hop functions 00:17:21.190 --> 00:17:24.509 as an alternative, deeply vital oral history 00:17:24.509 --> 00:17:27.049 for cities like Buffalo. Right. The mainstream 00:17:27.049 --> 00:17:29.829 historical record, you know, the court transcripts, 00:17:29.890 --> 00:17:32.329 the newspaper clippings, Sly Green kept in his 00:17:32.329 --> 00:17:34.869 cell that tells the state's version of the city's 00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:36.910 story. Right, the official record. But hip hop 00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:39.309 acts as the unredacted archive for the streets. 00:17:39.529 --> 00:17:41.910 I love that. Artists like West Side Gun and Benny 00:17:41.910 --> 00:17:44.910 the Butcher, they invoke figures like Sly Green, 00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:48.230 not as moral role models to emulate, but as foundational 00:17:48.230 --> 00:17:50.809 cultural touchstones. They use them the way a 00:17:50.809 --> 00:17:53.009 historian might use a landmark. Right. To prove 00:17:53.009 --> 00:17:55.650 they were actually there. Precisely. To understand 00:17:55.650 --> 00:17:58.509 the grit, the paranoia, and the survival instincts 00:17:58.509 --> 00:18:00.769 embedded in their music, the listener has to 00:18:00.769 --> 00:18:03.410 understand the titans that roamed those specific 00:18:03.410 --> 00:18:05.509 Buffalo neighborhoods when these artists were 00:18:05.509 --> 00:18:07.809 coming of age. That makes a lot of sense. By 00:18:07.809 --> 00:18:12.180 putting Sly Green's act - voice on an EP in 2024, 00:18:13.099 --> 00:18:16.079 they're authenticating their own lived experiences. 00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:19.859 They're essentially telling the audience, I survived 00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:23.200 the era of the LA boys. I am a product of the 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.799 pressure cooker that he built. It really reframes 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:27.599 the entire narrative we just walked through. 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.319 It does. The state utilized millions of taxpayer 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.519 dollars, a seven week trial, racketeering laws, 00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:36.160 and a sentence of four lifetimes to erase him. 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:40.819 But the culture utilized a microphone and an 00:18:40.819 --> 00:18:44.059 algorithm to immortalize him. It's wild to step 00:18:44.059 --> 00:18:46.759 back and look at the trajectory here. We started 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:48.900 with a local Buffalo kid who looked at a map, 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.099 pointed 2 ,500 miles away to Los Angeles, and 00:18:52.099 --> 00:18:54.720 built a massive logistical drug pipeline fueled 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.940 by a $50 million dream. And we saw him enforce 00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:00.319 that dream by completely inverting the rules 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.019 of self -preservation, jumping into the moving 00:19:03.019 --> 00:19:05.900 vehicle of arrival just to market his own terrifying 00:19:05.900 --> 00:19:08.859 unpredictability. Then we watched that same unyielding 00:19:08.859 --> 00:19:11.759 hubris flashing newspaper clippings in a holding 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:13.980 cell to maintain his brand and did the federal 00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:16.480 government the exact blueprint they needed to 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:19.359 legally bury him under a mountain of centuries. 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:21.980 Only for him to orchestrate his own resurrection 00:19:21.980 --> 00:19:25.460 decades later, bypassing the prison walls entirely 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:28.779 to become a recurring vocal presence in the machinery 00:19:28.779 --> 00:19:31.079 of modern music. It's unbelievable. I want you 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:33.720 to consider how the media, the music and the 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.779 art you passively consume on your daily commute 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:41.410 are so often built on the very real very dark 00:19:41.410 --> 00:19:43.690 histories of local neighborhoods. Absolutely. 00:19:43.809 --> 00:19:45.930 The entertainment we stream is frequently echoing 00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:48.609 the most dangerous eras of cities we might never 00:19:48.609 --> 00:19:51.529 even visit. Right. The ghosts of these underworld 00:19:51.529 --> 00:19:54.490 empires are quite literally speaking to us through 00:19:54.490 --> 00:19:57.349 our headphones. It's a profound reminder that 00:19:57.349 --> 00:19:59.930 history isn't just locked away in court vaults 00:19:59.930 --> 00:20:02.809 or textbooks. No, it's not. It's actively encoded 00:20:02.809 --> 00:20:04.750 and transmitted through the art that survives 00:20:04.750 --> 00:20:07.309 the era. And it leaves you with a really strange 00:20:07.309 --> 00:20:10.069 philosophical question for the digital age. What's 00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:12.289 that? If an inmate serving four consecutive life 00:20:12.289 --> 00:20:15.009 sentences can literally be a featured artist 00:20:15.009 --> 00:20:18.940 on an entire music EP Where exactly is the line 00:20:18.940 --> 00:20:21.279 between incarceration and influence? That's a 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.559 great question. As technology and algorithms 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:26.079 make it easier to broadcast a voice from absolutely 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.180 anywhere, even a federal supermax, will the justice 00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:32.680 system's ability to erase a kingpin from society 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.900 become completely obsolete? It might. Could you 00:20:35.900 --> 00:20:38.619 truly lock a man away if his voice is on a million 00:20:38.619 --> 00:20:40.720 smartphones? It's fascinating to think about.