WEBVTT

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If I told you that one of the biggest, most intricately

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produced holiday hits of 2011, a track featuring

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two absolute American R &B legends. Right. If

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I told you it barely cracked the top 70 in the

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United States, you'd probably think it was a

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total flop break. Oh, absolutely. I mean, you'd

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assume it just vanished. Yeah. But then, if I

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told you that this exact same song... completely

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bypassed American dominance to debut at number

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one halfway across the globe. Oh, wow. Yeah.

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Selling over 80 ,000 copies in a single week

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in South Korea. You would have to wonder like

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how on earth that actually happened. It completely

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upends our, you know, our traditional understanding

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of how domestic holiday music is supposed to

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be haze. You expect an American Christmas song

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by these massive American megastars to just hit

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its ceiling at home. So when it explodes in an

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entirely different hemisphere, it forces us to

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Well, to really look under the hood at the actual

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mechanics of the track. And that is exactly what

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we are doing today. Welcome to the Deep Dive.

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We're so glad you're here with us, because today

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we are looking at the genuinely fascinating trajectory

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of the 2011 holiday track, When Christmas Comes,

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which is a duet by Mariah Carey and John Legend.

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It's such a wild story. It really is. We pulled

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a super comprehensive Wikipedia article detailing

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this song's composition. deeply divided critical

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reception, and of course, it's genuinely bizarre

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chart history. Our mission today is to dissect

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the anatomy of this specific track, to understand

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exactly how a modern R &B Christmas song is built,

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how it's visually packaged for the public, and,

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like we said, how it gets consumed globally.

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OK, let's unpack this. Yeah. To truly understand

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how the song operates on a global scale, we first

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have to look at the architectural foundation

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of the music itself. Right. The actual composition.

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Exactly. And to do that, we actually have to

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go back to 2010. So before John Legend was even

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in the picture. Oh, right. Because the song was

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originally written and produced solely by Mariah

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Carey and James Poyser, right? For Carey's 2010

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album, Merry Christmas the Second. And just for

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a little context for you listening, this was

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her 13th studio album and her second Christmas

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album. Which, I mean, that is a staggering position

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to be in creatively. Just think about the shadow

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she's operating under there. Oh, massive shadow.

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Her first Christmas album featured All I Want

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for Christmas is You, which isn't just a hit,

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it is arguably the single most successful modern

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holiday song in existence. Yeah, it's practically

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its own industry at this point. Exactly, so the

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pressure is just immense. How do you construct

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a new holiday song that doesn't just sound like

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a cheap imitation of your own legendary catalog?

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Well, you go decidedly old school and you refuse

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to cut any corners. Right. The sources describe

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the track as a soul song with R &B influences

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built on a simple groove. But looking at the

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liner notes, there is absolutely nothing simple

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about the logistics of creating that groove.

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Oh, not at all. They didn't just fire up a laptop

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and program some synthesized sleigh bells. They

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relied heavily on live instrumentation, and they

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recorded across four... Wait, let me check. Yeah,

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four different top -tier studios. Four studios

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for one track. Yeah. Guardian Angel in Bel -Air,

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Westlake Recording Studios, Henson Studios in

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Los Angeles, and Germano Studios in New York

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City. I mean, you only book... multiple world

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-class facilities like Henson and Germano, if

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you are hunting for the absolute perfect acoustic

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space for specific live instruments. Right, because

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you can't fake that. You really can't. You cannot

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fake the sound of real air moving through a physical

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room. They were chasing a very specific organic

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resonance. You really were. And they brought

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in a full roster of heavy hitters to get it.

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Alex Evans on drums, John Juvah Smith on guitar,

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and James Poiser himself on the keyboards. Yeah.

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And then there's the brass section, Rick Baptist

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and Greg Adams on trumpet, Nick Lane on trombone,

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and Dan Higgins on saxon flute. What's fascinating

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here is how Cary and Poyser utilize that massive

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roster of musicians to bridge two completely

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different musical worlds. How so? Well, they

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took a very traditional folksy holiday motif

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specifically, Cary interpolating a portion of

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the classic jingle bells melody just before the

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final chorus. Oh, right. Yeah. But instead of

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wrapping it in traditional orchestral string,

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or, you know, choral arrangements, they anchored

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it entirely in this classic, heavy, R &B, horn

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and flute arrangement. It totally changes the

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texture of the song. It's like cooking a massive

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holiday meal completely from scratch with a full

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kitchen of trained chefs rather than just microwaving

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a frozen dinner. That's a great way to put it.

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It takes significantly more effort, but you can

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feel that organic richness in the final product.

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Yeah. It isn't just background music. It demands

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your attention. Absolutely. And on top of that

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dense live band, Carrie does her own background

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harmonies alongside Melanie Daniels, Charlotte

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Gibson, and Nikki Richards. In fact, that jingle

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bells moment we just mentioned. Yeah. Pop crush

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reviewer Scott Shelter specifically noted that

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this section perfectly showcases Carrie's famous

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five octave range. And that's the magic of it.

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The live band provides this incredibly warm,

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earthy foundation. Because the instruments are

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real, the track feels grounded, which allows

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Carey's massive vocal acrobatics to soar without

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the whole thing feeling detached or overly processed.

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Okay, so we have this rich, organic, from scratch

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foundation built in 2010. But a year later, the

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recipe completely changes. It does. On November

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7, 2011. Carey announced the track would be released

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as a duet with John Legend. It officially dropped

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later that month in the US and the UK. Carey

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publicly stated that Legend was the perfect choice.

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claiming his soulful creative decisions, took

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it up several notches. And when you listen to

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the two versions side by side, the dynamic shift

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is just undeniable. Yeah. Interestingly, the

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single release version with Legend actually lasts

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for exactly one additional second compared to

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the original album version. Wait, just one second.

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Yeah. It's the tiniest tweak in runtime, but

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the structural change to the feeling of the song

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is massive. I have to be a little cynical for

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a second, though. I really want to challenge

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this narrative. OK, go for it. Was bringing in

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John Legend purely an artistic choice to elevate

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the soulfulness of the track? Or if we're being

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honest about the music industry, was this just

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a highly calculated commercial strategy? Like

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a way to creatively relaunch a year old album

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track as a brand new standalone single just to

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double dip on sales for a second consecutive

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holiday season. This raises an important question

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about the intersection of art and commerce, especially

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with holiday music. Because the reality is that

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holiday music has an incredibly short window

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of relevance. So true. Just a few weeks. Exactly.

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You basically only have November and December

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to make an impact. So to prevent an album track

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from just fading into obscurity after its first

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year, you have to find a mechanism to re -engage

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the public and the radio programmers. And a new

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feature does that. Strategically, adding a massive

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star like John Legend is a brilliant commercial

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move. It guarantees fresh headlines and forces

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radio stations to treat it as a brand new release.

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Well, the critics definitely noticed that strategic

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move and it completely divided them. I bet. Yeah,

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Scott Shelter at Pop Crush loved it. He gave

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the duet four out of five stars, called it Sultry,

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and explicitly stated it was superior to the

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solo album version. But then you have Rich Jeswiak.

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writing for The Village Voice. He looked at the

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whole full -band R &B approach and dismissed

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it as a retread of Carrie's 2005 The Emancipation

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of Mimi era. Oh, wow. Yeah, he basically argued

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she was just recycling her own past stylistic

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successes. I mean, I hear that cynicism from

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The Village Voice, but if this were purely a

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lazy cash grab, they could have just commissioned

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a generic... you know, electronic dance remix.

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That's true, that happens all the time. By bringing

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in John Legend, they fundamentally changed the

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architecture of the song. Adding him didn't just

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make the track louder, it shifted the entire

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narrative. What do you mean by that? Think of

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Carrie's original 2010 version as a beautiful

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soliloquy on stage. She's singing to the audience.

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But when you add legend, it transforms into an

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intimate, unscripted dialogue between two people.

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Oh, that's interesting. Right. The lyrics focus

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heavily on giving the gift of love. They harmonize

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on the lines, and me and you can have ourselves

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a holiday, and we don't need nobody else to celebrate.

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Right. Having two distinct masterfully soulful

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voices sing those specific lines to each other

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entirely justifies the re -release from an artistic

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standpoint. The foundation remained the same,

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but the play completely changed. Okay, yeah,

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that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So you have

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this sultry, soulful dialogue featuring two major

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global stars. The next hurdle for the record

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label is figuring out how to visually present

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this to the public. And if you have Mariah Carey

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and John Legend, the instant must be to go absolutely

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massive. Exactly. You'd expect a million dollar

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stage production, falling snow, a hundred backup

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dancers, the works. Which would be the standard

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playbook for a of this magnitude, you know. But

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they threw out the playbook. Instead of going

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big and untouchable, the marketing leaned aggressively

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into relatable intimacy. The music video was

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directed by Sana Hamri, and they didn't rent

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out a huge soundstage. They filmed it right at

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Mariah Carey's actual home in Los Angeles. Wow.

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That is a highly deliberate visual strategy.

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It really is, and it works so well. The video

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features this incredibly celebratory, chaotic

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Christmas house party vibe. Nick Cannon makes

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a cameo, and the even integrated vintage footage

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from the classic animated film, A Charlie Brown

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Christmas. Oh, I love that. Right. And leading

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up to the release. Carrie posted behind -the

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-scenes images on her website showing just her

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and Legend sitting casually at a piano together.

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It's like they're actively trying to ground the

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sheer technical brilliance of the music in something

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deeply human and nostalgic. Exactly. It's incredibly

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smart to juxtaposed these unreachable five octave

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diva vocals with highly relatable nostalgic imagery

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like Charlie Brown and a casual living room piano

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sing -along. Yeah, it bridges the gap. And that

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intimate living room vibe carried over into the

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live performances as well. Carrie performed it

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on her 2010 ABC Christmas special and it became

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a staple of her annual Beacon Theater residency

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in New York. Oh, is that called again? It has

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the very grand title, All I Want for Christmas

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is You. a night of joy and festivity. Of course.

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But the Beacon Theatre is known for feeling uniquely

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personal for a major venue. And to cap it all

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off, in December 2016, legend actually surprised

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the Beacon Theatre crowd by walking out unannounced

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to join her on stage for the duet. It's brilliant

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marketing because it connects the visual execution

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directly back to the lyrical themes we discussed

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earlier. When they sing, we don't need nobody

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else to celebrate, filming at Carrie's actual

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home perfectly encapsulates that sentiment. It

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breaks down the barrier between the unreachable

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megastar and the fan. Totally. When you watch

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that video with the Charlie Brown cartoon playing

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in the background and people crammed around a

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piano, it makes you, the listener, feel like

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you've been invited as a personal guest to an

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exclusive but incredibly warm holiday. gathering.

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So we've established the intimate Los Angeles

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house party origins. We've mapped out the classic

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American R &B sound, the world class horn section,

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the cross country studio sessions. We have a

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deeply American aesthetic. Very much so. You

00:11:30.710 --> 00:11:32.710
would naturally expect this to be a strictly

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domestic hit. But that very specific American

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nostalgia somehow bypassed the U .S. charts and

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ignited a firestorm halfway across the globe.

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And the chart data for this track. is an absolute

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master class in how unpredictable the global

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music market can be. Let's contextualize the

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domestic numbers first, just so you have a baseline.

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Right. In the United States, the chart performance

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was solid, but it was incredibly niche. The duet

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hit number 15 on the adult R &B songs chart.

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It also hit number 70 on the hot R &B hip hop

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songs chart. OK. Which, by the way, was Carrie's

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53rd entry on that specific chart, which is a

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staggering achievement for her career. It also

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made a brief international appearance hitting

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number 57 on the Japan Hot 100. To put those

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numbers in perspective, hitting number 70 on

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a US chart is respectable, but it isn't a cultural

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phenomenon. No, not at all. It means the song

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is getting some targeted radio play, maybe playing

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in the background at a department store while

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you shop. It is passive consumption. Here's where

00:12:32.090 --> 00:12:34.169
it gets really interesting. Let's look at South

00:12:34.169 --> 00:12:36.870
Korea. In 2010, the original solo version of

00:12:36.870 --> 00:12:39.830
the song charted in South Korea, but it barely

00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.179
squeaked in. peaking at number 100. But in 2011,

00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.639
when the duet with John Legend dropped, it absolutely

00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:48.960
exploded. It's crazy. It debuted at number one

00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.960
on the South Street in download chart. And a

00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:52.480
digital download chart is very different from

00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:54.960
a radio airplay chart. A download means someone

00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:57.639
actively sought the song out. paid money for

00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:00.019
it, and downloaded the file to own it. Yeah,

00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:02.320
that requires high consumer intent. Exactly.

00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:04.940
High intent. High intent and massive volume.

00:13:05.299 --> 00:13:09.360
It sold 81 ,624 copies in its first week alone

00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:12.580
in South Korea. Wow. And this wasn't just a fleeting

00:13:12.580 --> 00:13:14.960
novelty spike that vanished a week later. It

00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:17.500
remained incredibly strong. The following week,

00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:20.720
it sold over 32 ,000 copies. The week after that,

00:13:20.860 --> 00:13:24.039
almost 19 ,000 copies and over 13 ,000 in its

00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.980
fourth week. That is serious staying power. Ultimately,

00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:29.240
it peaked at number two on their overall digital

00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:31.279
chart. If we connect this to the bigger picture,

00:13:31.460 --> 00:13:34.120
it is a fascinating case study and how deeply

00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.580
American soul and R &B translate across global

00:13:37.580 --> 00:13:39.639
markets, regardless of the cultural specifics

00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.840
of the lyrics. Because it is such a massive disparity.

00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:45.980
We are talking about modest background level

00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:49.659
R &B chart placements in the US versus absolute

00:13:49.659 --> 00:13:52.340
undeniable dominance in South Korean digital

00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:55.129
downloads. Yeah. Why does a song with a Charlie

00:13:55.129 --> 00:13:57.850
Brown music video resonate so heavily in soul?

00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:00.519
It speaks to the universal language of melody

00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.220
and elite production. Earlier, the sources described

00:14:03.220 --> 00:14:05.779
the song as having a simple groove. But when

00:14:05.779 --> 00:14:08.139
you have musicians like Alex Evans on drums and

00:14:08.139 --> 00:14:10.879
Jubu Smith on guitar, they create an undeniable

00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.000
pocket. The pocket? Yes. For anyone unfamiliar,

00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.100
the pocket is a technical term musicians use

00:14:16.100 --> 00:14:18.860
to describe that deeply satisfying rhythmic sweet

00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:21.419
spot where the drums and the bass lock together

00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:23.679
so perfectly that you instinctively start nodding

00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.519
your head. It's a feeling, not just a sound.

00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:28.980
Precisely. And in South Korea, specifically within

00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:31.940
their pop and R &B music industries, there is

00:14:31.940 --> 00:14:35.379
a deep historical cultural appreciation for highly

00:14:35.379 --> 00:14:39.480
polished, intricate 90s and 2000s style American

00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.320
R &B production. Boy, that makes sense. Right.

00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.740
They value high level vocal performance tremendously.

00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.080
So the language barrier of the English lyrics

00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.980
becomes entirely secondary. It just doesn't matter

00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:51.419
as much. Not at all. The warmth of the live brass

00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:54.620
section recorded at Henson Studios, that undeniable

00:14:54.620 --> 00:14:57.370
pocket of the rhythm section. and the pure vocal

00:14:57.370 --> 00:15:00.309
mastery of carrion legend harmonizing that musical

00:15:00.309 --> 00:15:03.690
excellence completely bypasses language and geography.

00:15:04.610 --> 00:15:06.870
South Korean audiences recognized the craftsmanship

00:15:06.870 --> 00:15:09.370
and rewarded it. So what does this all mean?

00:15:09.809 --> 00:15:12.090
We started today's deep dive by looking at what

00:15:12.090 --> 00:15:15.090
goes into making a modern holiday classic. And

00:15:15.090 --> 00:15:17.210
what we found is a narrative that constantly

00:15:17.210 --> 00:15:20.129
defies expectations. It really does. When Christmas

00:15:20.129 --> 00:15:22.919
Comes didn't start in a laboratory. It started

00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.159
as a heavily produced, entirely organic studio

00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.820
track with live horns hunting for acoustic perfection

00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:32.019
across four different studios. And then it refused

00:15:32.019 --> 00:15:34.720
to stay static? Exactly. It evolved into a highly

00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.279
strategic duet that served both as a commercial

00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.879
vehicle to breathe new life into an aging album

00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.000
cycle, and as an artistic shift that turned a

00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.620
solar reflection into a romantic dialogue. It

00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:49.620
utilized deeply nostalgic, lo -fi house party

00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:53.299
visuals to make unreachable megastars feel like

00:15:53.299 --> 00:15:56.460
our next door neighbors. And ultimately, despite

00:15:56.460 --> 00:15:59.399
being drenched in American holiday imagery, it

00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:02.200
found its biggest, most passionate commercial

00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:05.240
embrace thousands of miles away in South Korea.

00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.259
It perfectly illustrates why looking at media

00:16:08.259 --> 00:16:10.500
from multiple perspectives is so vital to truly

00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:13.100
understanding it. Definitely. If you only look

00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:15.120
at this track through the lens of the American

00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.740
Billboard charts, you see a modest, middle -of

00:16:17.740 --> 00:16:20.159
-the -road R &B hit. If you look at it through

00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.059
the lens of the studio session musician, you

00:16:22.059 --> 00:16:25.019
see an absolute masterclass in live instrumentation

00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:26.840
and acoustic recording. Right, and the critics.

00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:28.759
If you look at it through the eyes of music critics,

00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:31.500
you see a debate over whether an artist returning

00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:33.919
to a signature sound is a welcome revival or

00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:36.450
a lazy retread. And if you look at international

00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:39.210
digital sales charts, you see a smash hit. It

00:16:39.210 --> 00:16:41.309
proves that a single piece of art can be valued

00:16:41.309 --> 00:16:43.750
entirely differently depending on who the audience

00:16:43.750 --> 00:16:45.690
is and where they happen to be listening from.

00:16:46.009 --> 00:16:48.409
It is a great reminder that the life of a song

00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:50.730
doesn't stop once it leaves the mixing desk.

00:16:51.450 --> 00:16:54.330
It takes on a life of its own, dictated by the

00:16:54.330 --> 00:16:57.129
people who hear it, which leads us with a final

00:16:57.129 --> 00:16:59.690
thought for you to mull over as we wrap up today's

00:16:59.690 --> 00:17:02.289
deep dive. Yeah, think about this. I want you

00:17:02.289 --> 00:17:04.309
to think about your own favorite holiday songs.

00:17:04.650 --> 00:17:07.069
the specific tracks you queue up every single

00:17:07.069 --> 00:17:10.170
year without fail. How much of their appeal to

00:17:10.170 --> 00:17:12.910
you relies on the actual musical composition,

00:17:13.390 --> 00:17:15.450
the physical notes, the instruments, the vocal

00:17:15.450 --> 00:17:18.529
phrasing, versus the visual nostalgia, the music

00:17:18.529 --> 00:17:20.670
videos, and the strategic marketing surrounding

00:17:20.670 --> 00:17:22.910
them. It's usually a much more complex recipe

00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:25.250
than we realize. It really is. And furthermore,

00:17:25.490 --> 00:17:28.130
in our highly connected digital age, does a song's

00:17:28.130 --> 00:17:30.490
true home have to be the country it was recorded

00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:34.450
in? Or can a soulful, deeply American R &B track

00:17:34.450 --> 00:17:36.789
find its truest belonging halfway across the

00:17:36.789 --> 00:17:39.170
globe in the headphones of a listener and soul?

00:17:39.849 --> 00:17:41.309
We encourage you to keep questioning the media

00:17:41.309 --> 00:17:43.809
you consume, to look past the surface -level

00:17:43.809 --> 00:17:45.990
marketing, and to always pay attention to the

00:17:45.990 --> 00:17:48.210
groove underneath. Thanks for joining us, and

00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:49.009
we'll catch you next time.