WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.640 Welcome to the deep dive everybody. I'm your 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:05.179 host and I'm super excited to get into our source 00:00:05.179 --> 00:00:07.339 material today And I am your expert for today 00:00:07.339 --> 00:00:10.259 thrilled to be here So we are jumping right into 00:00:10.259 --> 00:00:11.839 something that I think is gonna really surprise 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.359 a lot of you listening like if I were to tell 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:20.250 you about a Well, a $63 .7 billion Krona Aerospace 00:00:20.250 --> 00:00:23.269 and Defense Behemoth. Right. A massive, massive 00:00:23.269 --> 00:00:24.989 company. Exactly. A company that's currently 00:00:24.989 --> 00:00:28.730 building, like, AI -enabled drone swarms and 00:00:28.730 --> 00:00:30.929 these highly advanced multi -role fighter jets 00:00:30.929 --> 00:00:34.229 and literally radar -evading submarines. You'd 00:00:34.229 --> 00:00:36.770 probably picture some shadowy, hyper -modern 00:00:36.770 --> 00:00:38.890 tech corporation. Oh, totally. You'd picture 00:00:38.890 --> 00:00:41.649 something out of a sci -fi movie. Yeah. But what 00:00:41.649 --> 00:00:43.890 if I told you that this exact same company is 00:00:43.890 --> 00:00:47.670 the one that built that quirky, highly distinctive 00:00:47.670 --> 00:00:51.289 Swedish sedan that your favorite college professor 00:00:51.289 --> 00:00:53.189 with the elbow patches probably drove back in 00:00:53.189 --> 00:00:55.490 the 1990s? The one with the weird ignition. Yes. 00:00:55.950 --> 00:00:58.350 The ignition is weirdly placed way down by the 00:00:58.350 --> 00:01:00.390 gear shift. The dashboard looks suspiciously 00:01:00.390 --> 00:01:02.929 like an airplane cockpit. We are, of course, 00:01:03.149 --> 00:01:06.670 talking about Saab. It really is. the ultimate 00:01:06.670 --> 00:01:08.909 corporate hidden identity, isn't it? The gap 00:01:08.909 --> 00:01:11.469 between the general public's perception of this 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:15.010 brand and their actual, like, operational reality 00:01:15.010 --> 00:01:17.760 today is just... staggering. It's completely 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:20.299 wild because people neatly categorize them in 00:01:20.299 --> 00:01:23.879 their minds as this nostalgic vintage European 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:27.239 auto manufacturer. But that cozy memory completely 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:29.620 obscures the fact that we are actually looking 00:01:29.620 --> 00:01:32.439 at a massive global military powerhouse. OK, 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.379 let's unpack this because our mission for this 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:36.480 deep dive today is to explore the fascinating 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:39.299 and frankly completely unexpected evolution of 00:01:39.299 --> 00:01:42.379 Saab AB relying purely on their own historical 00:01:42.379 --> 00:01:44.840 records and sources. Right. We're going to uncover 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.120 how a company that that was basically born out 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.640 of desperate World War II military necessity 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:52.359 constantly reinvented itself. I mean, accidentally 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:54.420 making iconic cars and pioneering commercial 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:57.239 computers along the way. Just as like side quests. 00:01:57.420 --> 00:02:00.099 Exactly, side quests. Just to survive and remain 00:02:00.099 --> 00:02:03.030 a technology juggernaut today. Which requires 00:02:03.030 --> 00:02:06.049 us to look at how severe geopolitical pressure 00:02:06.049 --> 00:02:08.909 forces a very, very specific type of innovation. 00:02:09.330 --> 00:02:11.830 To really understand the DNA of this company, 00:02:12.189 --> 00:02:14.469 we have to rewind to a place called Trollhetten 00:02:14.469 --> 00:02:17.430 in Sweden. OK. This is back in 1937. Right. The 00:02:17.430 --> 00:02:19.469 origin story. So we start with this engineering 00:02:19.469 --> 00:02:22.530 company called Enohabe. And specifically, we're 00:02:22.530 --> 00:02:24.990 looking at their aero -engine division, which 00:02:24.990 --> 00:02:27.330 gets scooped up by a major industrial player 00:02:27.330 --> 00:02:31.490 named Bowforce. And they create SAB. S -A -A 00:02:31.490 --> 00:02:36.469 -B. Svenska, Aeroplan, Ektibolaget. But like, 00:02:36.590 --> 00:02:38.789 Bofors wasn't just casually diversifying their 00:02:38.789 --> 00:02:41.050 portfolio here, were they? No, not at all. They 00:02:41.050 --> 00:02:43.770 had a highly aggressive, almost monopolistic 00:02:43.770 --> 00:02:45.569 goal in mind from day one. They wanted total 00:02:45.569 --> 00:02:47.629 control. Wow. Bofors had already been working 00:02:47.629 --> 00:02:50.030 really closely with the Swedish Air Force on 00:02:50.030 --> 00:02:52.370 weaponry, and they saw this golden opportunity 00:02:52.370 --> 00:02:54.729 to create an aircraft manufacturer that could 00:02:54.729 --> 00:02:57.409 lock down every single future aircraft order 00:02:57.409 --> 00:02:59.469 for the Swedish military. They just wanted the 00:02:59.469 --> 00:03:02.430 whole pie. Exactly. They wanted to be the sole 00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:05.370 provider for an entire nation's aerial defense. 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:08.349 That is a wildly ambitious play, but they immediately 00:03:08.349 --> 00:03:10.990 ran into a brick wall, right? Because the playing 00:03:10.990 --> 00:03:13.590 field wasn't empty. No, there was serious competition. 00:03:13.750 --> 00:03:15.490 Yeah, there was another Swedish company called 00:03:15.490 --> 00:03:18.229 ASJA over in Linköping, and they were already 00:03:18.229 --> 00:03:21.409 a dominant force. ASJA had even managed to poach 00:03:21.409 --> 00:03:24.110 a legendary aviation designer, Sven Blomberg. 00:03:24.270 --> 00:03:26.969 Right. The guy who was famous for designing the 00:03:26.969 --> 00:03:30.650 Jack Falken fighter plane. Right. So Bofors realized 00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:32.849 they couldn't just crush ASJA, so they tried 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:35.270 to absorb them. They attempted to broker this 00:03:35.270 --> 00:03:39.069 parent company consortium in 1937 to merge the 00:03:39.069 --> 00:03:41.449 operations. They even went so far as to buy out 00:03:41.449 --> 00:03:44.129 a smaller third party competitor named Sparman 00:03:44.129 --> 00:03:47.210 just purely to clear the board and force a duopoly. 00:03:47.370 --> 00:03:50.340 It's essentially a 1930s shotgun wedding. between 00:03:50.340 --> 00:03:53.319 two rival tech startups. And the military is 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:55.240 standing there holding the shotgun. That is exactly 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:58.039 what it was. But this initial consortium is incredibly 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:00.860 messy. They're clashing. ASJA is still winning 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:03.039 the standalone contracts. And it looks like the 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:04.740 whole thing might just completely fall apart. 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:09.060 But then the ultimate catalyst hits. The spark 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:12.080 that forces Sweden to completely change its strategy. 00:04:12.650 --> 00:04:15.830 the Saversky P -35 crisis. Well, this part is 00:04:15.830 --> 00:04:18.730 crazy. What's fascinating here is how isolation 00:04:18.730 --> 00:04:21.910 accelerates self -reliance. At this point, the 00:04:21.910 --> 00:04:24.290 Swedish government had ordered a fleet of Saversky 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:27.029 P -35 military aircraft from the United States. 00:04:27.269 --> 00:04:29.470 So they were relying on an overseas partner for 00:04:29.470 --> 00:04:32.199 their national security. Exactly. But as World 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:34.879 War II begins to escalate globally, the U .S. 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:37.459 government suddenly steps in and just halts the 00:04:37.459 --> 00:04:40.360 delivery. The U .S. basically tells Sweden, sorry, 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:42.819 we need all of our domestic manufacturing power 00:04:42.819 --> 00:04:45.639 to build tanks for our own war effort. You're 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:48.040 on your own. Yeah. And for Sweden, that isn't 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:49.819 just an administrative headache. Oh, no, it was 00:04:49.819 --> 00:04:51.980 an existential threat. I mean, Sweden was officially 00:04:51.980 --> 00:04:54.459 a neutral country. But look at a map from 1939. 00:04:54.660 --> 00:04:57.480 They were entirely surrounded by a rapidly expanding, 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:00.819 highly destructive global conflict. So when that 00:05:00.819 --> 00:05:03.220 American supply line vanished overnight, the 00:05:03.220 --> 00:05:05.480 Swedish government had a terrifying realization. 00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:08.579 You cannot outsource your own survival. Wow. 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:10.579 Yeah, if they were going to defend their airspace, 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:12.579 they had to figure out how to build the planes 00:05:12.579 --> 00:05:16.720 themselves. From scratch. Immediately. That sheer 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:20.680 desperation forces the issue. ASJA and the Trollhet 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:23.379 and SAVE operations are formally like tightly 00:05:23.379 --> 00:05:26.639 merged into the SAB concern in 1939. With Link 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:28.839 Upping becoming the headquarters. Right. And 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:30.500 because their backs are completely against the 00:05:30.500 --> 00:05:32.079 wall, they just start cranking out innovations 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:34.680 at a breakneck pace. I mean, they build the SAB 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:38.360 17 light dive bomber in 1940. They build the 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.360 SAB 18 Schnell bomber in 1942. But the aircraft 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:43.019 and the source material that absolutely blew 00:05:43.019 --> 00:05:46.600 my mind is the SAB 21 single seat fighter. which 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:50.100 first flew in 1943. Oh, the SAB -21 is a master 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:52.399 class in solving bizarre engineering problems. 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:55.620 It was designed as a twin boom pusher propeller 00:05:55.620 --> 00:05:58.120 aircraft. Which, for anyone who is an aviation 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.259 mechanic, means the plane looks backward. Yeah, 00:06:00.379 --> 00:06:02.139 pretty much. Instead of the engine sitting in 00:06:02.139 --> 00:06:03.639 the nose of the plane, like pulling it through 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:06.079 the air, the engine and the propeller are mounted 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:08.740 in the very back of the fuselage, pushing the 00:06:08.740 --> 00:06:11.220 plane forward. Right. But that unique design 00:06:11.220 --> 00:06:14.300 created a horrifying safety issue. The bailout 00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:16.939 problem. Exactly. In a traditional fighter plane 00:06:16.939 --> 00:06:19.399 from that era, if the plane takes damage, the 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:22.600 pilot opens the canopy and jumps out. But in 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.660 a pusher propeller aircraft, if the pilot jumps 00:06:25.660 --> 00:06:28.269 out... The slub stream will pull them directly 00:06:28.269 --> 00:06:30.689 back into those massive spinning propeller blades. 00:06:30.829 --> 00:06:33.490 Yeah, it's basically a giant flying meat blender 00:06:33.490 --> 00:06:35.870 right behind your head. That is terrifying. Ugh. 00:06:36.569 --> 00:06:39.350 So Sobs engineers realize they have to invent 00:06:39.350 --> 00:06:41.709 a way to get the pilot up and over that rear 00:06:41.709 --> 00:06:44.600 propeller in a fraction of a second. They need 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.060 an ejection seat. And the Germans were also developing 00:06:47.060 --> 00:06:49.459 early ejection seats at this time, but they were 00:06:49.459 --> 00:06:52.220 using compressed air systems to launch the pilot. 00:06:52.459 --> 00:06:55.300 OK. The engineers at Saab, however, took a much 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:57.879 more aggressive route. They decided to use gunpowder. 00:06:58.180 --> 00:07:01.000 Yes. They literally designed a system that would 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.339 detonate an explosive charge directly beneath 00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:05.779 the pilot seat, blasting them out of the cockpit 00:07:05.779 --> 00:07:08.319 with enough force to clear the rear blades entirely. 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.850 I cannot imagine. being the test pilot who had 00:07:11.850 --> 00:07:14.069 to volunteer to sit on a controlled explosive. 00:07:14.230 --> 00:07:17.389 Like, no thank you. Right. But it perfectly encapsulates 00:07:17.389 --> 00:07:20.370 the culture Saab was building. They were isolated. 00:07:20.769 --> 00:07:23.589 They were under extreme pressure. So they engineered 00:07:23.589 --> 00:07:27.170 solutions that were pragmatic, highly effective, 00:07:27.389 --> 00:07:30.370 and entirely homegrown. Which creates a fascinating 00:07:30.370 --> 00:07:33.089 dilemma because you have this intense, war -driven 00:07:33.089 --> 00:07:36.230 company that has mastered complex metallurgy, 00:07:36.430 --> 00:07:39.189 aerodynamics, and high -stakes engineering. And 00:07:39.189 --> 00:07:42.129 then... The war ends. Yeah. The geopolitical 00:07:42.129 --> 00:07:45.829 pressure cooker suddenly depressurizes the massive 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:48.529 blank check military contracts that fueled their 00:07:48.529 --> 00:07:51.069 growth just dry up overnight. So how does an 00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:52.889 aerospace engineer who just spent five years 00:07:52.889 --> 00:07:55.970 designing gunpowder ejection seats walk into 00:07:55.970 --> 00:07:57.689 work on a Monday morning and decide to build 00:07:57.689 --> 00:08:00.110 a civilian car? It's a huge shift. It feels like 00:08:00.110 --> 00:08:02.189 a massive leap. Well, it wasn't a passion project. 00:08:02.230 --> 00:08:03.829 I'll tell you that. It was a desperate pivot 00:08:03.829 --> 00:08:06.250 to avoid bankruptcy. Oh, really? Yeah. Saab had 00:08:06.250 --> 00:08:09.050 this incredible roster of highly skilled aerospace 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.620 space engineers and massive factory infrastructure. 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:14.920 But their primary customer, the military, was 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:17.480 downscaling. They needed a new market immediately. 00:08:17.699 --> 00:08:19.540 And as it turned out, the civilian world had 00:08:19.540 --> 00:08:22.470 a massive gaping hole in its supply chain. Because 00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:24.889 of the exact same dynamic that caused the airplane 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:27.610 crisis earlier. Right. The U .S. and European 00:08:27.610 --> 00:08:30.490 auto manufacturers had spent the late 1930s and 00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:34.669 1940s building tanks, Jeeps and munitions instead 00:08:34.669 --> 00:08:37.509 of private cars. Exactly that. So when the war 00:08:37.509 --> 00:08:40.289 finally ended, the U .S. domestic market greedily 00:08:40.289 --> 00:08:43.230 absorbed whatever limited car production American 00:08:43.230 --> 00:08:45.470 factories could muster. So Europe is left with 00:08:45.470 --> 00:08:48.500 nothing. Europe, and specifically Sweden, was 00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:51.360 left in a total vacuum. There were virtually 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.799 no new private cars available. Buyers were sitting 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.759 on waiting lists that were literally years long. 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.299 Wow. So Saab looked at that demand and realized 00:09:00.299 --> 00:09:02.440 they had the tools to fill it. But the friction 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:04.139 of that pivot must have been immense. I mean, 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:05.740 these guys didn't know the first thing about 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:07.700 civilian automotive supply chains. No, not at 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:10.100 all. But they knew how to shape lightweight metal. 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:12.620 and they understood aerodynamics better than 00:09:12.620 --> 00:09:14.960 almost anyone else in the world. So they built 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:17.360 a prototype called the ERSAB. And if you look 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:19.480 at photos of the ERSAB, it makes perfect sense 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:21.799 why it looks so strange. It's so weird looking. 00:09:22.139 --> 00:09:24.740 It essentially looks like a wing without wheels 00:09:24.740 --> 00:09:27.759 or like a metal teardrop. They didn't design 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:30.320 it to look stylish. They designed it using the 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.700 exact same aerodynamic drag coefficient principles 00:09:33.700 --> 00:09:35.960 they used to make bomber planes fly through the 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.500 air with minimal resistance. Which makes sense. 00:09:38.620 --> 00:09:41.080 And that prototype eventually leads to the full 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:43.740 -scale production of the Saab 92 automobile in 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:47.000 December 1949. Which explains why, for the next 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:50.580 50 years, Saab cars always retained that distinct, 00:09:51.100 --> 00:09:53.919 slightly bulbous, highly aerodynamic shape. They 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:56.460 were literally born in a wind tunnel. Exactly. 00:09:56.580 --> 00:09:58.779 But the cars are just one civilian side quest. 00:09:59.070 --> 00:10:02.090 because the sources reveal an even wilder pivot 00:10:02.090 --> 00:10:05.710 in the late 1950s. Saab decides to venture into 00:10:05.710 --> 00:10:07.830 the commercial computer market with a division 00:10:07.830 --> 00:10:11.230 called Data Saab. Yes, Data Saab. And I have 00:10:11.230 --> 00:10:13.470 to admit I was completely lost reading this part. 00:10:13.730 --> 00:10:15.690 I can understand an airplane company bending 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:18.730 metal to make a car. But why is an aviation firm 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:21.549 in the 1950s building banking computers for European 00:10:21.549 --> 00:10:24.009 countries? If we connect this to the bigger picture, 00:10:24.250 --> 00:10:26.830 you start to see Saab's aerospace division functioning 00:10:26.830 --> 00:10:29.350 as a stealth incubator for all kinds of civilian 00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:31.870 technology. They didn't launch Data Saab because 00:10:31.870 --> 00:10:34.809 they wanted to compete with IBM. They built computers 00:10:34.809 --> 00:10:37.590 because they had an extremely complex aerospace 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:39.990 problem that the open market simply could not 00:10:39.990 --> 00:10:42.210 solve for them. The navigation equipment. That's 00:10:42.210 --> 00:10:45.450 the core of it. As the Cold War escalated, fighter 00:10:45.450 --> 00:10:48.480 jets became exponentially faster and their missions 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:50.720 became infinitely more complex. Right, they're 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:53.720 going supersonic now. Exactly. A human pilot 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:56.659 could no longer calculate navigation, radar tracking, 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:59.340 and weapons targeting manually at those speeds. 00:10:59.779 --> 00:11:02.580 They needed an onboard computer to process that 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:05.740 data. But in the late 1950s, a computer wasn't 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:08.009 something you held in your hand. No, it was a 00:11:08.009 --> 00:11:11.230 machine powered by massive vacuum tubes that 00:11:11.230 --> 00:11:13.769 literally filled an entire climate -controlled 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:16.830 room. You obviously cannot fit a room -sized 00:11:16.830 --> 00:11:18.929 machine into the cramped cockpit of a fighter 00:11:18.929 --> 00:11:21.389 jet. No, you definitely cannot. So Saab is sitting 00:11:21.389 --> 00:11:23.210 there realizing that if they want their next 00:11:23.210 --> 00:11:25.370 generation of planes to actually work, they have 00:11:25.370 --> 00:11:28.330 to invent a way to shrink a room -sized brain 00:11:28.330 --> 00:11:31.129 down to the size of a suitcase. Which forces 00:11:31.129 --> 00:11:34.509 a massive leap in miniaturization. They pour 00:11:34.509 --> 00:11:37.190 resources into developing solid -state electronics 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:39.549 and compact microprocessors. And they pulled 00:11:39.549 --> 00:11:43.129 it off. They did. This immense effort eventually 00:11:43.129 --> 00:11:46.710 results in the CK -37 aircraft computer, which 00:11:46.710 --> 00:11:49.850 becomes the digital heart of their famous Viggen 00:11:49.850 --> 00:11:53.769 fighter jet in 1971. So they successfully shrink 00:11:53.769 --> 00:11:56.240 the computer to fit in the plane. But, because 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:58.379 they spent millions of krona developing this 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:00.879 baseline computing technology just to make their 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.259 planes fly, some executive at Saab must have 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:06.139 realized, wait a minute, if our computer is powerful 00:12:06.139 --> 00:12:09.309 enough to track a supersonic missile? It's definitely 00:12:09.309 --> 00:12:12.309 powerful enough to process a civilian bank transaction. 00:12:12.629 --> 00:12:14.850 Exactly. It is one of the clearest examples of 00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:17.289 military research and development spilling directly 00:12:17.289 --> 00:12:19.850 into the civilian sector. They commercialized 00:12:19.850 --> 00:12:21.870 the tech they were forced to invent, selling 00:12:21.870 --> 00:12:24.669 these robust, highly advanced data sob systems 00:12:24.669 --> 00:12:27.529 to banks and businesses across Europe. But here 00:12:27.529 --> 00:12:29.509 is the fascinating twist in this whole narrative. 00:12:29.509 --> 00:12:31.629 Yeah. They didn't keep these civilian divisions. 00:12:32.289 --> 00:12:34.370 Sob didn't become a massive conglomerate, making 00:12:34.370 --> 00:12:36.909 everything from sedans to laptops. No, they didn't. 00:12:37.070 --> 00:12:40.250 They slowly shed that skin. They sold off the 00:12:40.250 --> 00:12:42.490 commercial computer division to Sperry Univac 00:12:42.490 --> 00:12:46.539 in 1975. And the car division, the one the entire 00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:49.399 global public associated them with, was gradually 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:53.000 sold off to General Motors. GM bought 51 % in 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.639 1990 and took complete ownership by the year 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:59.000 2000. Which leaves Saab AB stripped entirely 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:02.100 back down to its absolute core without the distraction 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.799 of marketing consumer sedans or servicing bank 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:07.600 computers. They refocused every ounce of their 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.879 engineering talent and capital back into aerospace 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:12.519 and defense. And we really need to look at what 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:15.070 that hyper focused defense juggernaut looks like 00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:18.350 today because the scale is just incredible. As 00:13:18.350 --> 00:13:21.450 of 2024, they are pulling in over $63 billion 00:13:21.450 --> 00:13:24.029 in revenue. That's a massive number. How did 00:13:24.029 --> 00:13:26.230 they achieve that kind of stability after shedding 00:13:26.230 --> 00:13:28.549 their most famous public -facing products? Well, 00:13:28.809 --> 00:13:31.250 a major, often overlooked factor is their financial 00:13:31.250 --> 00:13:33.769 architecture. Saab is firmly backed by the Wallenberg 00:13:33.769 --> 00:13:36.070 family. OK, who are they? They are one of the 00:13:36.070 --> 00:13:37.789 most powerful industrial families in Europe, 00:13:37.850 --> 00:13:41.529 and they control 47 .7 % of Saab's voting rights 00:13:41.529 --> 00:13:44.240 through their investment firm. investor AB. Why 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:46.340 does that matter so much though? Because the 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:49.360 defense industry operates on timelines that most 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.080 normal companies just can't survive. Developing 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.259 a new fighter jet takes decades. Right. If you 00:13:55.259 --> 00:13:58.360 are a standard publicly traded company obsessed 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:00.639 with making your shareholders happy every single 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.519 quarter, you can't weather those long development 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.860 cycles. Exactly. The Wallenberg backing gives 00:14:07.860 --> 00:14:10.860 Saab the luxury of patience. It allows them to 00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:13.379 plan for the security needs of the next 20 years, 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.580 rather than just worrying about the next earnings 00:14:15.580 --> 00:14:17.919 call. And when you look at the hardware they're 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:21.059 producing with that long term vision, it goes 00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:23.419 way beyond planes. Oh, absolutely. I mean, yes, 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:25.899 they have this legendary lineage of fighter jets, 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.240 the Tonnen, the Lanson, the Drakken, the Viggen. 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.460 Today, they build the JAS -39 Gripen multi -role 00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:35.789 fighter. with over 300 of them built by 2020. 00:14:36.090 --> 00:14:38.230 And they even partnered with American aerospace 00:14:38.230 --> 00:14:41.330 giant Boeing to develop the T7 Red Hawk Advanced 00:14:41.330 --> 00:14:43.549 Trainer. But they aren't just an airplane company 00:14:43.549 --> 00:14:45.990 anymore. No, they've organized themselves into 00:14:45.990 --> 00:14:48.570 highly specialized business areas like aeronautics, 00:14:48.850 --> 00:14:51.549 dynamics, and surveillance. They have effectively 00:14:51.549 --> 00:14:54.309 become a one -stop shop for an entire nation's 00:14:54.309 --> 00:14:56.649 defense infrastructure. It's unbelievable. They 00:14:56.649 --> 00:15:00.169 build the Carl Gustav portable anti -tank weapon. 00:15:00.809 --> 00:15:02.970 They build the saber -toothed, unmanned underwater 00:15:02.970 --> 00:15:05.429 vehicle. They had an entire shipyard division, 00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:09.509 Saab Cockums, that manufactures actual stealth 00:15:09.509 --> 00:15:12.210 submarines. Now I want to zoom in on one specific 00:15:12.210 --> 00:15:14.470 piece of their surveillance and stealth portfolio 00:15:14.470 --> 00:15:16.590 because it genuinely sounds like science fiction 00:15:16.590 --> 00:15:19.029 to me. Oh, the camouflage. Yes, they have a facility 00:15:19.029 --> 00:15:21.350 in Lillington, North Carolina, Saab Barracuda, 00:15:21.389 --> 00:15:24.340 LLC. and they manufacture something called the 00:15:24.340 --> 00:15:26.840 ultra -lightweight camouflage net system, or 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:32.240 ULcans. They won a competed $1 .76 billion contract 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.759 supplying this to the U .S. military. When I 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.259 first read camouflage net, I just pictured like 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.820 a heavy canvas tarp painted with green and brown 00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:41.899 splotches. Which is how most people understand 00:15:41.899 --> 00:15:44.200 camouflage, right? Fooling the human eye. But 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:46.279 visual detection is the least of your worries 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.039 on a modern battlefield. ULcans provides what 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.809 is called multispectral protection. Okay, what 00:15:51.809 --> 00:15:54.470 does that actually mean for a soldier on the 00:15:54.470 --> 00:15:57.899 ground trying to hide a tank? Well... An enemy 00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:00.220 drone or satellite isn't just looking with a 00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:02.779 regular camera. They are using thermal imaging 00:16:02.779 --> 00:16:05.679 to look for the massive heat signature of a tank's 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.179 engine. Right. They are sweeping the area with 00:16:08.179 --> 00:16:11.120 broadband radar, bouncing radio waves off the 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.539 metal hull of the vehicle to pinpoint its location. 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:17.539 If you throw a painted canvas tarp over a tank, 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:20.000 the radar waves pass right through the canvas, 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.840 hit the metal, and bounce back to the enemy screen. 00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:25.019 So they see right through the disguise. Exactly. 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.659 But the ULCAN's material actively disrupts those 00:16:28.659 --> 00:16:31.000 signals. It physically blocks and dissipates 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:33.279 the thermal radiation so the tank doesn't glow 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.320 on an infrared screen. That's wild. And it contains 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.419 specialized materials that scatter and absorb 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:40.860 specific frequencies of broadband radar so the 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:42.980 radio waves don't bounce back to the enemy receiver. 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.440 It essentially creates a localized black hole. 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:47.779 in the enemy's sensor network. Yes, it's not 00:16:47.779 --> 00:16:50.320 just hiding. It is active electronic deception. 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:52.620 Okay, but here's where it gets really interesting, 00:16:52.779 --> 00:16:55.480 though. We just talked about submarines, supersonic 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.460 jets, anti -tank weapons, and radar -absorbing 00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:01.899 materials. Heavy stuff. Exactly. That is all 00:17:01.899 --> 00:17:05.519 heavy, highly complex physical hardware. metal 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.299 explosives thrust. But you look at Saab's major 00:17:09.299 --> 00:17:12.960 acquisitions in 2023, and they seem to be entirely 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.880 abandoning that physical realm. Ah, you're talking 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:17.700 about their aggressive move into the software 00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:22.079 space. Right. In 2023, Saab acquires a UK based 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.750 company called Blue Bear. which specializes in 00:17:24.750 --> 00:17:27.769 AI enabled autonomous form systems. Basically 00:17:27.769 --> 00:17:30.450 teaching dozens of drones how to fly and attack 00:17:30.450 --> 00:17:32.529 together without a human steering them. Right. 00:17:32.730 --> 00:17:36.190 And literally a month later, they buy Crowd AI, 00:17:36.630 --> 00:17:38.349 an artificial intelligence and machine learning 00:17:38.349 --> 00:17:40.750 company based out of San Francisco. I mean, I 00:17:40.750 --> 00:17:42.690 have to push back on this. You have an 80 year 00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:44.930 old Swedish company famous for bending metal 00:17:44.930 --> 00:17:47.089 and building fighter jets, suddenly buying up 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:49.490 Silicon Valley tech startup. It's quite a contrast. 00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:51.829 It feels like a massive cultural and operational 00:17:51.829 --> 00:17:54.089 clash. Are they even a hardware company anymore? 00:17:54.410 --> 00:17:56.869 This raises an important question about the fundamental 00:17:56.869 --> 00:17:59.450 nature of where global conflict is heading. For 00:17:59.450 --> 00:18:02.450 the entirety of the 20th century, military dominance 00:18:02.450 --> 00:18:05.369 was defined by the physical vehicle. The hardware 00:18:05.369 --> 00:18:08.430 was the product. Exactly. Who had the jet that 00:18:08.430 --> 00:18:10.910 could fly the highest? Who had the submarine 00:18:10.910 --> 00:18:14.759 with the thickest hull? The biggest muscle. Precisely. 00:18:15.259 --> 00:18:18.799 But Saab's 2023 acquisitions demonstrate a profound 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.839 realization that the era of hardware dominance 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:25.279 is ending. The physical jet, or the drone, is 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:28.039 now just the delivery mechanism. It's just the 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.140 muscle. Right. The true advantage in a modern 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:32.500 conflict lies entirely in the nervous system 00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:34.900 controlling that muscle. So if the Gripenjet 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:38.119 is the fist, Crowd AI and Blue Bear are the frontal 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:40.359 lobe. That is a perfect way to look at it. They 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:41.980 aren't just building the fist anymore. They're 00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:44.279 building the brain that decides when, where, 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:46.640 and how to punch. Processing thousands of variables 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.940 a second. Faster than a human pilot ever could. 00:18:49.779 --> 00:18:52.000 By buying up Silicon Valley machine learning 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.359 companies, Saab is acknowledging that whoever 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:56.900 writes the best algorithms will ultimately control 00:18:56.900 --> 00:18:59.900 the airspace. So what does this all mean, bringing 00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:02.980 this back to you listening right now? Why should 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:06.180 you care about the 80 -year corporate history 00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:08.880 of a Swedish defense contractor? It's a fair 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.440 question. Because Saab's journey is honestly 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.500 the ultimate masterclass in adaptability and 00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:18.339 survival. It shows that the true secret to longevity 00:19:18.339 --> 00:19:20.680 in any industry isn't just about what you're 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.299 building today. It's about your willingness to 00:19:23.299 --> 00:19:25.759 constantly shed your own skin. They never let 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:28.140 nostalgia for their past successes trap them 00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:30.500 into obsolescence. They dropped the consumer 00:19:30.500 --> 00:19:32.799 cars the moment that industry no longer served 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.160 their core mission. They abandoned commercial 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.819 computers. They didn't cling to their identity 00:19:37.819 --> 00:19:40.019 as an auto manufacturer just because the public 00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:43.660 loved their quirky sedans. They just kept relentlessly 00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:45.700 solving the next impossible problem in front 00:19:45.700 --> 00:19:48.180 of them. From figuring out how to blast a pilot 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:50.140 out of a plane with gunpowder because they couldn't 00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:53.140 buy American tech, to shaping a car like an airplane 00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:55.680 wing, to realizing that the future of their hardware 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.509 company is actually borderless software. And 00:19:58.509 --> 00:20:01.069 as defense companies like Saab move deeper into 00:20:01.069 --> 00:20:03.450 artificial intelligence, machine learning, and 00:20:03.450 --> 00:20:06.829 autonomous drone swarms, it forces us to reconsider 00:20:06.829 --> 00:20:09.609 everything we know about global security. How 00:20:09.609 --> 00:20:12.630 so? It leaves us with a heavy thought. In a future 00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:14.910 where the most critical military technology is 00:20:14.910 --> 00:20:17.829 no longer physical steel forged in a local factory, 00:20:18.210 --> 00:20:21.089 but rather borderless code and algorithms living 00:20:21.089 --> 00:20:23.990 on servers, will the historical concept of a 00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:26.069 strictly national defense industry even make 00:20:26.069 --> 00:20:29.339 sense anymore? Wow. That is an incredibly provocative 00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:31.079 thought to leave on. Thank you so much for joining 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.160 us on this deep dive into the sources. The next 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:34.859 time you are walking down the street and you 00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:37.500 see one of those quirky vintage Swedish sedans 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.539 roll past you, just remember its younger sibling 00:20:40.539 --> 00:20:42.900 is currently a radar evading machine learning 00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:45.000 drone swarm. Catch you next time.