WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.139 Imagine a man just sweating profusely in this 00:00:04.139 --> 00:00:06.400 faded heavy metal t -shirt. Yeah, totally out 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:08.039 of place. Right. He's standing in a room that 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.599 is completely packed with, you know, polished 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:12.900 diplomats and the international press. Just a 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:17.000 sea of suits. Exactly. And he is severely stuttering, 00:00:17.260 --> 00:00:20.140 just clutching this crumpled dog -eared piece 00:00:20.140 --> 00:00:22.820 of paper. Like a nervous kid. Yeah. He steps 00:00:22.820 --> 00:00:25.839 right up to a microphone. looks directly at the 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:27.960 Dalai Lama like the spiritual leader of Tibet, 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.280 right? Right. And he loudly delivers a punchline 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:34.840 based entirely on a 1960s Broadway musical. It's 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:37.240 just, it's so surreal to even picture. It really 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:39.679 is. But now, I want you to imagine that exact 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:42.759 same man, decades later, he picks up a telephone, 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.520 bypasses the most secure communication switchboard 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:48.820 on the planet, and successfully prank calls the 00:00:48.820 --> 00:00:50.759 president of the United States. Well, he's flying 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:53.460 on Air Force One, no less. Yes, on Air Force 00:00:53.460 --> 00:00:56.439 One. one. Today we are unpacking the completely 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.359 impossible, contradictory, and honestly just 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:01.700 chaotic career of a man who managed to do both 00:01:01.700 --> 00:01:05.000 of those things. It is a trajectory that I mean 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.620 it defies almost every conventional rule of the 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:10.030 entertainment industry. Oh, completely. When 00:01:10.030 --> 00:01:13.090 you analyze the media landscape spanning the 00:01:13.090 --> 00:01:16.810 last, say, 40 years, you rarely find a single 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:19.510 individual who has served as a primary antagonist 00:01:19.510 --> 00:01:23.069 in the wild west of 1990s shock radio. Yeah, 00:01:23.189 --> 00:01:25.790 that whole era. And then becomes a highly paid 00:01:25.790 --> 00:01:29.409 pawn. in the incredibly sterile corporate wars 00:01:29.409 --> 00:01:31.969 of late -night network television. And then pivots 00:01:31.969 --> 00:01:35.409 again. Exactly. Finally becoming this fiercely 00:01:35.409 --> 00:01:38.450 litigious participant in the decentralized, hyper 00:01:38.450 --> 00:01:41.569 -ironic, modern internet we have today. So welcome 00:01:41.569 --> 00:01:44.450 to today's Deep Dive. We have a massive stack 00:01:44.450 --> 00:01:47.390 of sources on the table today, folks. We're talking 00:01:47.390 --> 00:01:50.189 biographical data, late -night television histories, 00:01:50.930 --> 00:01:54.170 complex federal copyright rulings, and even internet 00:01:54.170 --> 00:01:56.719 sociology papers. It is quite a stack. And they 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:58.700 all center around John Melendez, who is known 00:01:58.700 --> 00:02:02.379 to millions as Stuttering John. And for the learner 00:02:02.379 --> 00:02:04.280 listening right now, our mission today is to 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.560 trace this chronological journey. We are looking 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:08.539 at a man who took a childhood vulnerability, 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.379 forged it into an offensive weapon, and used 00:02:11.379 --> 00:02:13.719 it to infiltrate entirely different mediums of 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.360 entertainment. The shifts between those mediums 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:18.960 are really what make this so compelling to look 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:21.780 at. Yeah. Why is that? Well, this isn't just 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:25.270 a biography. It is a real -time stress test of 00:02:25.270 --> 00:02:28.610 American media culture. Every single time Melendez 00:02:28.610 --> 00:02:31.469 changed jobs, he exposed the hidden economics, 00:02:31.669 --> 00:02:34.270 the underlying psychology, and honestly, the 00:02:34.270 --> 00:02:37.110 absolute ruthlessness of the platforms he was 00:02:37.110 --> 00:02:39.590 operating within. Okay, let's unpack this. Because 00:02:39.590 --> 00:02:41.689 to understand how he broke the machine, we really 00:02:41.689 --> 00:02:43.830 have to understand the armor he was wearing. 00:02:43.949 --> 00:02:45.949 Right, where it all started. Yeah, and that armor 00:02:45.949 --> 00:02:49.090 was forged in Massapequa, New York, out on Long 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:52.409 Island, starting in 1965. Which is where he grew 00:02:52.409 --> 00:02:55.830 up. Exactly. John Melendez is born to a Puerto 00:02:55.830 --> 00:02:58.490 Rican father, and a Danish mother, but the sources 00:02:58.490 --> 00:03:01.270 are very, very clear about one specific detail 00:03:01.270 --> 00:03:03.509 here. Yeah, this is crucial. He was not born 00:03:03.509 --> 00:03:05.990 with a stutter. No, he wasn't. It did not appear 00:03:05.990 --> 00:03:08.689 until the second grade. It began as a trauma 00:03:08.689 --> 00:03:11.430 response, actually, after Witten sing a severe 00:03:11.430 --> 00:03:14.310 argument between his parents, which was then 00:03:14.310 --> 00:03:16.889 followed by ongoing psychological mistreatment 00:03:16.889 --> 00:03:19.009 from his father. What's fascinating here is the 00:03:19.009 --> 00:03:22.050 mechanics of trauma -induced steech impediments. 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.719 Right. How does that actually work? Well, in 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.599 many developmental psychology frameworks, a stutter 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.340 that manifests suddenly in early childhood is 00:03:30.340 --> 00:03:32.500 often a physical manifestation of an environment 00:03:32.500 --> 00:03:36.699 where the child feels their voice is dangerous. 00:03:36.900 --> 00:03:39.719 Like it's not safe to speak. Exactly. Yeah. It 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:42.280 is literally a subconscious interruption of the 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:45.259 self. The brain is trying to express a thought. 00:03:45.500 --> 00:03:47.919 And the nervous system, which has been conditioned 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:51.259 by fear or trauma, throws up a physical roadblock. 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:53.539 Wow. You were caught between the desperate need 00:03:53.539 --> 00:03:56.280 to speak and the absolute terror of being hurt. 00:03:56.539 --> 00:03:59.060 I just, I have to imagine that growing up on 00:03:59.060 --> 00:04:01.939 Long Island in the 1970s and 80s with a severe 00:04:01.939 --> 00:04:05.500 trauma -induced stutter is essentially painting 00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:08.099 a giant target on your own back. Oh, absolutely 00:04:08.099 --> 00:04:10.520 brutal. The sources note he was relentlessly 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:12.919 bullied. But here is what I don't quite understand. 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.060 Usually when someone is targeted like that, they 00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:17.079 retreat, right? Yeah, they become invisible. 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.540 They try to hide. But John does the exact opposite. 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:22.980 He graduates high school in 1983, goes to NYU 00:04:22.980 --> 00:04:25.699 film school, and joins a rock band called Rock 00:04:25.699 --> 00:04:28.639 Slide. Yeah, he's a front man. Right. He is thrusting 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:32.019 himself onto stages. It is a fascinating counter 00:04:32.019 --> 00:04:35.439 phobic response. Counter phobic? Yes. So if the 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.180 stutter is a manifestation of powerlessness, 00:04:38.899 --> 00:04:41.319 grabbing a microphone and fronting a rock band 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:44.740 is an attempt to reclaim that power. Oh. He's 00:04:44.740 --> 00:04:46.600 forcing people to look at him and listen to him 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.740 on his own terms. He is trying to override the 00:04:49.740 --> 00:04:53.139 trauma. through pure performance. Which perfectly 00:04:53.139 --> 00:04:56.160 sets the stage for 1988. This is the moment everything 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:59.279 pivots - Glory break. Yeah. John's college roommate 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:03.149 is a guy named Mitch Fattel. And Mitch actually 00:05:03.149 --> 00:05:05.649 goes on to become a very successful stand -up 00:05:05.649 --> 00:05:07.850 comedian himself. Right, a well -known comic. 00:05:07.930 --> 00:05:10.209 But at the time, Mitch is doing an internship 00:05:10.209 --> 00:05:12.730 at the Howard Stern show. Which is already huge. 00:05:12.870 --> 00:05:15.790 Huge. Howard Stern is a massive regional force 00:05:15.790 --> 00:05:18.629 in New York, actively building this chaotic, 00:05:18.930 --> 00:05:22.029 boundary -pushing radio empire. Yep. So Mitch 00:05:22.029 --> 00:05:24.129 is about to leave his internship, and John asks 00:05:24.129 --> 00:05:26.529 him to recommend him for the gig. And this specific 00:05:26.529 --> 00:05:29.410 moment reveals the underlying, almost predatory 00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:32.740 genius of early shock Well, Mitch goes to the 00:05:32.740 --> 00:05:36.100 show's producer, Gary Delabade, and Gary mentions 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:38.920 to Howard Stern that they have a candidate for 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:41.699 the internship, but he warns him that the kid 00:05:41.699 --> 00:05:45.079 has a severe stutter. And Stern doesn't ask for 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.680 a resume? Nope. He doesn't conduct an interview? 00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:50.199 The sources say the moment he hears the word 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:53.800 stutter, he hires him sight unseen. Just like 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:57.160 that. That sounds almost cartoonishly opportunistic. 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.019 Because it was. I mean, Howard Stern was pioneering 00:06:00.019 --> 00:06:03.000 a completely new aesthetic in broadcast. He was 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.959 building what he called the Whack Pack. Right, 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:07.939 right. It was this rotating cast of characters 00:06:07.939 --> 00:06:12.199 defined by distinct, often marginalized physical, 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:14.560 mental or vocal characteristics. Yeah, a real 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:16.860 carnival atmosphere. But the mechanism of the 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:19.240 show wasn't just to mock these people in a vacuum. 00:06:20.140 --> 00:06:22.680 Stern weaponized them. Weaponized them? I like 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:24.540 that phrasing. He used them to dismantle the 00:06:24.540 --> 00:06:27.279 polished hypocritical veneer of the celebrity 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:29.300 establishment. Let's talk about how that weaponization 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:31.079 actually functioned because John's initial role 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:33.060 was just answering phones, right? Yeah, basically 00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:35.879 getting coffee and answering lines. But very 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:39.220 quickly, Stern and his core writers, guys like 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:42.279 Fred Norris and Jackie Marbling, realized the 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:45.399 unbelievable utility of John's speech impediment. 00:06:45.579 --> 00:06:48.569 They saw the gold mine. They did. They started 00:06:48.569 --> 00:06:50.850 sending him out to the most tightly controlled 00:06:50.850 --> 00:06:54.149 ecosystems on earth. We're talking Hollywood 00:06:54.149 --> 00:06:57.709 red carpets, political press conferences, high 00:06:57.709 --> 00:07:00.949 society galas. And the psychology of the Stuttering 00:07:00.949 --> 00:07:04.250 John interview is honestly a master class in 00:07:04.250 --> 00:07:06.230 social manipulation. Write that down for me. 00:07:06.449 --> 00:07:08.129 Think about the architecture of a red carpet. 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:10.920 It is a purely transactional environment. Right, 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:13.120 who are you wearing that kind of thing? Exactly. 00:07:13.660 --> 00:07:15.779 The celebrity walks down the line to promote 00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:18.420 a multi -million dollar project and the media 00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:21.300 outlet lobs a perfectly safe pre -approved question 00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:23.579 just to get a sound bite. Everyone knows their 00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:25.970 lines. Exactly. It relies entirely on social 00:07:25.970 --> 00:07:28.250 grace. But then John steps up, and as the sources 00:07:28.250 --> 00:07:30.389 point out, his physical appearance is crucial 00:07:30.389 --> 00:07:32.790 here. Very crucial. He isn't wearing a tailored 00:07:32.790 --> 00:07:35.470 suit. He's got long, unkempt hair. He's wearing 00:07:35.470 --> 00:07:38.410 heavy metal t -shirts. Jeans, sneakers. Yeah, 00:07:38.410 --> 00:07:40.769 and sometimes he's wearing an oversized overcoat 00:07:40.769 --> 00:07:43.089 or a fake mustache that looks like it came from 00:07:43.089 --> 00:07:45.730 a discount costume shop. He looks entirely out 00:07:45.730 --> 00:07:48.629 of place. And that visual disruption is paired 00:07:48.629 --> 00:07:51.970 with the auditory disruption. Right. He approaches 00:07:51.970 --> 00:07:56.569 a major celebrity. and he is visibly, painfully 00:07:56.569 --> 00:07:59.870 struggling to get his words out. And this creates 00:07:59.870 --> 00:08:02.790 a social trap. A trap? Yeah, because if the celebrity 00:08:02.790 --> 00:08:05.370 turns their back or rolls their eyes or snaps 00:08:05.370 --> 00:08:08.089 at him, they instantly violate the core rule 00:08:08.089 --> 00:08:10.250 of public relations. Oh, I see. Because he's 00:08:10.250 --> 00:08:13.050 struggling. Exactly. They look monstrous. They 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:15.649 look like they are impatiently bullying a disabled 00:08:15.649 --> 00:08:18.769 person on camera. It's a hostage situation. There's 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:20.750 exactly what it is. They are socially paralyzed. 00:08:20.910 --> 00:08:23.959 Precisely. The celebrity is forced by societal 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:26.639 norms to stand there, paste a polite patient 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:28.819 smile on their face, and wait for him to finish 00:08:28.819 --> 00:08:31.980 the question. Wow. Their defenses are completely 00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:34.559 lowered because they are extending empathy. And 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:36.700 that is the exact moment the traps bring shut. 00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:38.980 Because the questions were absolutely lethal. 00:08:39.259 --> 00:08:41.419 Completely brutal. Let's look at the mechanics 00:08:41.419 --> 00:08:43.340 of these interactions from the source material. 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:46.919 We have the 1992 presidential election. Oh, the 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:49.659 Jennifer Flowers one. Yes. Jennifer Flowers is 00:08:49.659 --> 00:08:52.840 holding a massive hyper -serious news conference 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:55.480 to play the Clinton tapes. Right. A huge national 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:58.460 scandal. The National Press Corps is there. The 00:08:58.460 --> 00:09:02.259 tension in the room is incredible. And John Melendez 00:09:02.259 --> 00:09:05.259 gets the microphone. Unbelievable. He stutters 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:08.139 through the setup and then asks her, completely 00:09:08.139 --> 00:09:10.409 deadpan, if she plans to to sleep with any other 00:09:10.409 --> 00:09:12.889 candidates before the election. And the environmental 00:09:12.889 --> 00:09:14.830 contrast is really what makes that function. 00:09:14.950 --> 00:09:17.490 Yeah. In a room full of journalists asking nuanced 00:09:17.490 --> 00:09:20.029 questions about political strategy and marital 00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:24.309 fidelity, a man in a t -shirt asks a deeply crass, 00:09:24.549 --> 00:09:26.870 puerile question. And her reaction, she bursts 00:09:26.870 --> 00:09:28.970 into laughter. Right, which demonstrates how 00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:31.289 the absurdity functioned as a pressure release 00:09:31.289 --> 00:09:33.470 valve for the entire room. Or take the Dalai 00:09:33.470 --> 00:09:35.250 Lama incident we mentioned earlier in the intro. 00:09:35.309 --> 00:09:37.889 Right. Hello, Dalai. He asks, hello, Dalai, and 00:09:37.889 --> 00:09:40.870 the translator actually has to lean in and explain 00:09:40.870 --> 00:09:44.370 a Barbra Streisand Broadway pun to the spiritual 00:09:44.370 --> 00:09:47.490 leader of Tibet. Which is just so bizarre to 00:09:47.490 --> 00:09:49.929 think about. And the Dalai Lama chuckles. He 00:09:49.929 --> 00:09:52.649 takes it well, but they weren't always received 00:09:52.649 --> 00:09:56.210 warmly. He cornered Ringo Starr and asked, what 00:09:56.210 --> 00:09:58.950 did you do with the money? And Ringo's like, 00:09:59.009 --> 00:10:01.450 what money? Yeah, Ringo is genuinely confused. 00:10:01.610 --> 00:10:03.950 And John hits him with the punchline, the money 00:10:03.950 --> 00:10:06.570 your mother gave you for singing lessons. Which 00:10:06.570 --> 00:10:10.299 is a highly sophisticated deeply cutting insult 00:10:10.299 --> 00:10:13.879 regarding Ringo Starr's vocal abilities. But 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:17.039 it is delivered through this bumbling, innocent 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:19.940 -sounding mechanism. Ringo actually handled it 00:10:19.940 --> 00:10:21.919 brilliantly, joking that he spent the money on 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:25.090 fish and chips. But the success of that interaction 00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:28.169 relies entirely on John's delivery. Here is where 00:10:28.169 --> 00:10:30.649 it gets really interesting to me. I look at this 00:10:30.649 --> 00:10:32.909 and I see a Trojan horse. A Trojan horse, yeah. 00:10:33.210 --> 00:10:35.429 John wasn't a journalist. He wasn't even really 00:10:35.429 --> 00:10:38.250 a comedian in those early days. He was just the 00:10:38.250 --> 00:10:40.990 delivery mechanism for Howard Stern's id. Right, 00:10:40.990 --> 00:10:43.289 he was the messenger. But the absolute brilliance 00:10:43.289 --> 00:10:45.610 of it, the reason he didn't ruin the joke, was 00:10:45.610 --> 00:10:48.149 his complete lack of pop culture knowledge. That 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:50.649 is a vital distinction. Why is that so important? 00:10:50.970 --> 00:10:53.200 Well... If you send a trained comedian to ask 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.159 an offensive question, they will instinctively 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:58.799 brace for impact. Oh, sure. They will smirk. 00:10:59.179 --> 00:11:01.200 They will alter their cadence. They will telegraph 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.980 to the celebrity that a joke is happening. Exactly. 00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:06.799 But John didn't know who these people were or 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.220 why the questions were offensive. He was just 00:11:09.220 --> 00:11:12.240 reading the paper. The sources highlight an incredibly 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.399 dark example of this. He approaches the actress, 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:18.279 a la Shidi, and reads a question off his crumpled 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.179 paper asking if she had vomited lately. Awful. 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:24.539 He delivers it with total earnest innocence. 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:28.000 He has absolutely no idea that she is publicly 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.100 battling severe bulimia. And the cruelty of the 00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:33.559 writer's room is masked by the innocence of the 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:36.720 messenger. Wow. When Shidi becomes rightfully 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:39.379 furious... The radio audience isn't laughing 00:11:39.379 --> 00:11:41.740 at her pain necessarily. They're laughing at 00:11:41.740 --> 00:11:44.820 the incredible tension of this oblivious kid 00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:47.539 inadvertently dropping a social nuclear bomb. 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:50.500 That era of the show completely revolutionized 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:52.639 the access journalism model. I mean it made Stuttering 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:54.860 John a household name. Oh, absolutely everywhere. 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:57.980 He became the avatar for an entire generation 00:11:57.980 --> 00:12:00.460 of cynical media consumers who were just sick 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:03.000 of Hollywood hypocrisy. Yeah, he was their hero 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:06.029 in a way. But this brings up a massive contradiction 00:12:06.029 --> 00:12:09.110 in source material. We have this guy who is a 00:12:09.110 --> 00:12:11.929 genuine cultural phenomenon, but when we look 00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:15.029 at his actual life, the reality is entirely different. 00:12:15.110 --> 00:12:17.269 This is the illusion of visibility. The illusion 00:12:17.269 --> 00:12:20.009 of visibility. Yeah, the public and often performers 00:12:20.009 --> 00:12:23.129 themselves conflate being recognizable with being 00:12:23.129 --> 00:12:25.730 wealthy and powerful. Oh, assuming famous equals 00:12:25.730 --> 00:12:29.799 rich. Exactly. And in the mid to late 1990s, 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:32.700 the economic reality of broadcast syndication 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:36.659 was incredibly skewed. Let's break down those 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:39.220 economics because for you, the learner listening, 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.399 the numbers here are staggering. They really 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:44.039 are. By the early 90s, The Stern Show isn't just 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.600 in New York anymore. It's syndicated in Los Angeles, 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:49.000 Cleveland, major markets all across the country. 00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:53.590 Massive reach. Then, in 1994, it explodes. E! 00:12:53.610 --> 00:12:55.690 Entertainment Television starts broadcasting 00:12:55.690 --> 00:12:58.009 a nightly video version of the radio show. Right, 00:12:58.149 --> 00:12:59.850 bringing them to television. They are reaching 00:12:59.850 --> 00:13:03.980 15 million viewers. John's face is in living 00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:06.860 rooms everywhere. He achieves natural, basic 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:09.679 cable penetration. He is no longer just an anonymous 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:12.740 voice. And he leverages that into actual mainstream 00:13:12.740 --> 00:13:16.480 pop culture success. In 1994, he signs a major 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.820 label record contract with Atlantic Records. 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:21.399 Yeah, an actual music deal. He releases a rock 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:24.580 album. His music video is in heavy rotation on 00:13:24.580 --> 00:13:27.860 MTV. He's acting in feature films like Airheads, 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.159 Meet Wally Sparks, and Howard Stern's autobiographical 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:34.100 movie. with private parts. He is, by any standard, 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:36.340 a famous person. And yet, what does the source 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:38.679 material say his actual salary was from the radio 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:41.080 station during this peak period? This is wild. 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:44.899 $20 ,000 a year. $20 ,000 for a primary cast 00:13:44.899 --> 00:13:47.580 member on a syndicated media juggernaut. I really 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:49.240 need you to explain the mechanics of that to 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:52.519 me. Because if I am acting in major motion pictures 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:54.740 and signing deals with Atlantic Records, how 00:13:54.740 --> 00:13:57.220 is my day job paying me the equivalent of an 00:13:57.220 --> 00:13:59.700 entry -level fast food manager? It makes no sense 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:02.379 on the surface. union protections, how does the 00:14:02.379 --> 00:14:05.019 station justify that? Well, it requires understanding 00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:07.059 how radio budgets were structured in that era 00:14:07.059 --> 00:14:09.820 and the toxic concept of the exposure economy. 00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:12.840 The exposure. Yeah. In terrestrial radio, the 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:15.259 massive advertising revenue was centralized. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:18.740 It went to the station ownership. the syndication 00:14:18.740 --> 00:14:21.179 network, and the marquee host, in this case, 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.019 Howard Stern, who was making tens of millions 00:14:23.019 --> 00:14:26.340 of dollars. Secondary on -air talent were often 00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:29.200 classified as producers, researchers, or essentially 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:31.240 glorified interns. So they weren't being paid 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.919 as performers. Legally and structurally, no. 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:37.120 The implicit agreement of the shock radio world 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.179 was exploitative by design. How so? The show's 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:43.580 management essentially said, we are giving you 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:46.000 a microphone that reaches 15 million people. 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:49.500 We are making you famous. Your compensation is 00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:53.039 the same itself. It is your responsibility to 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.039 figure out how to monetize that fame on the weekends. 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:58.259 Oh, wow. So that explains the band, the record 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:00.820 deals, the movie cameos. He had to hustle outside 00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:03.240 the building just to survive. But there's a massive 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.379 catch. What's the catch? Their fame was entirely 00:15:06.379 --> 00:15:09.100 parasitic. It depended wholly on their proximity 00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:11.899 to Howard Stern. Oh, I see. If John left the 00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:15.039 show, The Atlantic Records deal vanishes. The 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.539 MTV appearances stop. He is trapped in the gravitational 00:15:18.539 --> 00:15:21.559 pull of a sun that is simultaneously warming 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:24.779 him and burning him. And Stern seemed fully aware 00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:27.480 of that dynamic. He didn't just underpay John. 00:15:27.940 --> 00:15:30.960 He turned John's financial desperation and humiliation 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.480 into core content for the show. Yeah, that was 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:35.700 the content. John was both a celebrity and the 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:38.080 office punching bag. And the perfect distillation 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.320 of this dynamic is the out to lunch incident. 00:15:40.990 --> 00:15:43.750 I want to focus on this because it is so psychologically 00:15:43.750 --> 00:15:46.830 brutal. He really is. So John finally gets a 00:15:46.830 --> 00:15:49.929 tiny sliver of autonomy. The New York radio station 00:15:49.929 --> 00:15:53.330 WXRK gives him a localized afternoon show from 00:15:53.330 --> 00:15:56.210 noon to 1 p .m. called Out to Lunch. Right. His 00:15:56.210 --> 00:15:58.710 own little show. It's incredibly low stakes. 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:01.289 He takes email requests. He plays rock songs. 00:16:01.389 --> 00:16:03.809 It takes him 15 minutes a day to tape it, but 00:16:03.809 --> 00:16:06.409 it's his. It is a small plot of intellectual 00:16:06.409 --> 00:16:09.039 property that he can claim ownership over. Right 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:12.519 up until August 2003. Howard Stern decides for 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:15.299 whatever reason that the show needs to end. Just 00:16:15.299 --> 00:16:17.539 abruptly. But he doesn't call John into an office. 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:20.120 He doesn't have HR handle it. He turns the firing 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.440 into a 45 minute live on air bit. Yeah, he broadcasts 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.100 it. He drags the program director into the studio 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:28.779 to break the news to John while millions of people 00:16:28.779 --> 00:16:31.500 listen to him lose his secondary income in real 00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:34.299 time. It is a profound demonstration of absolute 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:37.500 power. Completely. It signals to John and to 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:41.029 the audience that John has zero agency. Every 00:16:41.029 --> 00:16:43.509 aspect of his life, his successes, his financial 00:16:43.509 --> 00:16:46.669 failures, his dignity, is nothing more than raw 00:16:46.669 --> 00:16:49.330 material to feed the daily content machine of 00:16:49.330 --> 00:16:51.629 the primary broadcast. And you can physically 00:16:51.629 --> 00:16:54.669 see the toll this toxic environment takes. The 00:16:54.669 --> 00:16:57.610 sources outline these insane physical altercations. 00:16:57.710 --> 00:17:01.210 Oh yeah, the fights. In 2001, John is relentlessly 00:17:01.210 --> 00:17:03.549 mocking a gossip columnist named A .J. Benza 00:17:03.549 --> 00:17:05.549 on the air about his failed late night show. 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.740 Benza gets so angry that he physically assaults 00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:10.900 John, slapping him across the face live in the 00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:12.859 studio. Which gets Benza permanently banned. 00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:15.579 Right. But the hostility wasn't just verbal. 00:17:16.059 --> 00:17:18.259 The threat of physical violence was a constant 00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:21.700 undercurrent. And it escalates. Exactly. The 00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:25.160 very next year, 2002, John gets into a petty 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:28.039 feud with another radio DJ known as Crazy Cabby. 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.480 Right, another radio guy. To resolve it, they 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.440 don't have a conversation. They organize a sanctioned 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:36.160 boxing match at the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:39.579 City. A literal fistfight. They sell 2 ,500 tickets. 00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:43.480 They fight at 7 a .m. John actually wins by unanimous 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:45.700 decision, which is wild. But take a step back 00:17:45.700 --> 00:17:48.099 and look at the reality of this man's life. He 00:17:48.099 --> 00:17:51.460 is a 30 something father. He has acted in movies 00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:53.460 and he's getting slapped in the face at work 00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.920 and fighting in boxing rooms at dawn just to 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.619 maintain his spot in the social hierarchy of 00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:01.059 a radio show. This really forces us to analyze. 00:18:01.069 --> 00:18:03.549 breaking point. Yeah. When is enough? Enough. 00:18:03.690 --> 00:18:06.009 At what juncture does the psychological cost 00:18:06.009 --> 00:18:08.349 of the humiliation outweigh the benefit of the 00:18:08.349 --> 00:18:11.410 exposure? When does a performer realize they 00:18:11.410 --> 00:18:13.829 need to escape the ecosystem that created them? 00:18:13.890 --> 00:18:16.549 Well, the sources give us the exact moment the 00:18:16.549 --> 00:18:19.470 seed was planted. It's 2003. John makes a guest 00:18:19.470 --> 00:18:21.650 appearance on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno 00:18:21.650 --> 00:18:25.640 to promote a reality television show he was participating 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:27.900 in. Right, just a standard couch interview. And 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:30.240 Jay Leno, the king of mainstream, comfortable 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.660 television, looks at John and sees an opportunity. 00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:37.380 Leno pulls him aside and offers him a job as 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:40.480 the New York red carpet correspondent for The 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.079 Tonight Show. A monumental shift in legitimacy. 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:45.779 This isn't a weekend side hustle. This is network 00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:48.619 television. This is union scale. This is real 00:18:48.619 --> 00:18:51.480 structured money. And John turns it down. Yeah, 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.950 he says no. I read that in the sources and my 00:18:53.950 --> 00:18:55.950 jaw dropped. Why would you turn that down? It's 00:18:55.950 --> 00:18:58.309 hard to believe. According to John, he was so 00:18:58.309 --> 00:19:00.809 terrified of Howard Stern, so deeply conditioned 00:19:00.809 --> 00:19:03.410 by the power dynamics of the radio station, that 00:19:03.410 --> 00:19:05.630 he couldn't even secure a private meeting with 00:19:05.630 --> 00:19:08.150 Stern to ask for his blessing. He was paralyzed. 00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:11.190 He let a network TV gig evaporate because he 00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:14.009 was scared of his boss. And how does Stern react 00:19:14.009 --> 00:19:16.569 when he finds out about the offer? He goes on 00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:19.549 the air and calls Leno's idea lame. Of course. 00:19:19.769 --> 00:19:22.210 He openly mocks the concept that John could exist 00:19:22.210 --> 00:19:24.670 outside of the radio show. But psychologically, 00:19:25.009 --> 00:19:29.190 that 2003 offer fundamentally altered Melendez's 00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:31.549 internal calculus. How do you mean? It was third 00:19:31.549 --> 00:19:34.349 party validation. It proved to John that the 00:19:34.349 --> 00:19:36.529 mainstream establishment, the exact people he 00:19:36.529 --> 00:19:38.609 had spent a decade terrorizing on the red carpet, 00:19:39.089 --> 00:19:41.589 were now willing to write him substantial checks. 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:44.079 Here's where it gets really interesting. It proved 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.259 he had market value. Exactly. And that realization 00:19:47.259 --> 00:19:51.160 turns into a powder keg. Because in early 2004, 00:19:51.700 --> 00:19:54.680 that powder keg explodes and permanently alters 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:57.180 the landscape of late night television. A huge 00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:59.500 moment in TV history. This is the moment we transition 00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:01.599 from the Wild West of radio to the corporate 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:04.259 warfare of NBC. And the timeline of the defection 00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:06.460 is critical to understanding the fallout here. 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:10.500 It is February 2004. Howard Stern goes on vacation. 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.220 The studio is dark. Everyone is off. And while 00:20:13.220 --> 00:20:15.599 he is away, the New York Post drops a tactical 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.920 nuke on the media world. John Melendez has secretly 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:20.940 accepted the announcer position on The Tonight 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:23.660 Show with Jay Leno. Secretly. He is replacing 00:20:23.660 --> 00:20:26.619 the legendary Ed Hall. He is packing up his family, 00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:29.119 moving to Burbank, California, and leaving radio 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:32.259 behind forever. If we connect this to the bigger 00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:35.000 picture of television strategy, we have to ask 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.640 why Jay Leno wanted him. Right. Why him? Leno 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.039 was synonymous with safe middle American comfort 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.359 food broadcasting. Stuttering John was the absolute 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.460 antithesis of that. He was crude, aggressive, 00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:52.500 East Coast shock. The sources note Leno's stated 00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:55.660 bowl was demographic survival. He was looking 00:20:55.660 --> 00:20:59.160 at the incredibly lucrative 18 to 34 year old 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.339 male demographic. Stern owned that audience completely. 00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:06.150 Total monopoly. Leno thought, if I can't be edgy, 00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:08.650 I'll just buy the guy who is. He wanted to siphon 00:21:08.650 --> 00:21:12.630 off Stern's audience to boost his 11 .35 PM ratings. 00:21:12.970 --> 00:21:15.650 It was, in essence, an act of cultural theft. 00:21:15.829 --> 00:21:17.769 Cultural theft. Leno was attempting to purge 00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:20.210 at the cachet, the dangerous credibility of the 00:21:20.210 --> 00:21:22.390 shock jock world, without having to actually 00:21:22.390 --> 00:21:24.690 broadcast dangerous material. And Howard Stern 00:21:24.690 --> 00:21:26.930 recognized the theft immediately? Oh, he knew 00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:28.829 exactly what was happening. When Stern returned 00:21:28.829 --> 00:21:31.170 from vacation, he didn't just express disappointment. 00:21:31.250 --> 00:21:34.240 He went absolutely nuclear. He was enraged. launched 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.940 a weeks -long on -air campaign berating Leno. 00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:41.720 He accused Leno of intellectual bankruptcy. To 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:43.859 give you an idea of the vitriol, Stern said on 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:47.279 the air, to an 18 to 25 -year -old male, Jay 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.599 Leno is gay. He might as well put a dress on. 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.460 Which is obviously a very 2004 Shock Radio thing 00:21:52.460 --> 00:21:55.500 to say. Right. Looking past the obvious homophobia 00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:58.779 of 2004 Shock Radio, what Stern was really saying 00:21:58.779 --> 00:22:01.960 was that Leno was completely devoid of masculine, 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:04.920 rebellious credibility. Stern was furious because 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.319 his creative aesthetic was being sanitized and 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:10.039 appropriated by a competitor he viewed as fundamentally 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:12.490 unoriginal. Stern is also a brilliant businessman. 00:22:12.690 --> 00:22:15.069 Very much so. He doesn't just complain, he monetizes 00:22:15.069 --> 00:22:18.490 the betrayal. He launches a massive on -air reality 00:22:18.490 --> 00:22:21.609 contest called Win John's Job. Which is a masterstroke 00:22:21.609 --> 00:22:23.829 of audience engagement, really. He turns the 00:22:23.829 --> 00:22:25.789 loss of his sidekick into months of compelling 00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:28.750 content. He auditions fans, weirdos, and aspiring 00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:31.170 comedians. A whole spectacle. Eventually hiring 00:22:31.170 --> 00:22:33.529 Sal the stockbroker and Richard Christie, who 00:22:33.529 --> 00:22:35.470 go on to become massive figures in the show's 00:22:35.470 --> 00:22:37.630 history. Stern took the pain of the defection 00:22:37.630 --> 00:22:41.250 and spun it into gold. But meanwhile... In California, 00:22:41.910 --> 00:22:44.170 John Melendez has to actually execute this new 00:22:44.170 --> 00:22:46.730 job. Right. He actually has to go to work. And 00:22:46.730 --> 00:22:50.789 the reinvention of his identity is jarring. When 00:22:50.789 --> 00:22:53.789 he debuts on The Tonight Show on March 29th, 00:22:53.789 --> 00:22:57.230 2004, the network has completely sterilized him. 00:22:57.450 --> 00:22:59.750 I want to focus on that sterilization because 00:22:59.750 --> 00:23:03.450 they drop the stuttering moniker entirely. The 00:23:03.450 --> 00:23:07.740 announcer introduces him simply as John Melendez. 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.420 They put him in a tailored suit. They slick his 00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:12.279 hair back. He looks like a completely different 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:14.819 person. It reminds me of a punk rock guitarist 00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:17.519 who spent 10 years playing in dive bars, suddenly 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:19.759 deciding to join a corporate wedding band. That's 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:22.240 a great analogy. Yes. The money is fantastic, 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:24.279 the catering is top tier, and you have health 00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:26.480 insurance. But you are standing there playing 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.900 covers of Celebration instead of your own music. 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.220 Yeah. Did the suit legitimize him or did it strip 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:34.339 away the exact vulnerability that made him a 00:23:34.339 --> 00:23:36.640 star in the first place? It absolutely neutralized 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.359 his core appeal. How so? The fundamental pension 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:41.940 of stuttering John was that he was an outsider 00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:45.009 crashing the elite party. By making him the announcer 00:23:45.009 --> 00:23:48.410 of The Tonight Show, Lino made him the guy officially 00:23:48.410 --> 00:23:50.250 welcoming you to the party. Right. The threat 00:23:50.250 --> 00:23:53.009 was gone. And that transition is incredibly difficult 00:23:53.009 --> 00:23:55.329 because once he is standing behind that iconic 00:23:55.329 --> 00:23:58.549 late night curtain, John has to survive in a 00:23:58.549 --> 00:24:00.609 corporate environment that is about to undergo 00:24:00.609 --> 00:24:03.269 one of the most vicious upheavals in television 00:24:03.269 --> 00:24:05.849 history. The late night wars of this era are 00:24:05.849 --> 00:24:08.710 legendary for their executive mismanagement and 00:24:08.710 --> 00:24:10.970 sheer corporate panic. Let's lay out the context 00:24:10.970 --> 00:24:12.710 for The Learner because the stakes here in the 00:24:12.710 --> 00:24:14.460 bill - Billions of dollars. Billions, yeah. John 00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:17.420 is the announcer from 2004 to 2009. But when 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:20.660 he took the job in 2004, NBC had already made 00:24:20.660 --> 00:24:23.400 a fateful ticking clock announcement. The succession 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.369 plan. They promised that in 2009, Conan O 'Brien 00:24:26.369 --> 00:24:28.869 would take over The Tonight Show. So Melinda 00:24:28.869 --> 00:24:31.390 has accepted a job that inherently had a five 00:24:31.390 --> 00:24:34.869 -year expiration date. Right. And when 2009 finally 00:24:34.869 --> 00:24:38.250 arrives, absolute chaos ensues. Conan takes over 00:24:38.250 --> 00:24:42.329 at 11 .35 p .m. But Jay Leno, who is still dominating 00:24:42.329 --> 00:24:44.250 the ratings, doesn't actually want to retire. 00:24:44.569 --> 00:24:47.089 He flirts with moving to a rival network like 00:24:47.089 --> 00:24:50.539 ABC. Which terrified NBC. So NBC executives, 00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:53.259 terrified of losing Leno, come up with what is 00:24:53.259 --> 00:24:56.440 widely considered the worst idea in modern television 00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.799 history. They give Leno a primetime comedy show 00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:02.400 at 10 p .m. right before the local news. The 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.839 Jay Leno Show. Yes. It was a catastrophic failure 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:08.579 because it destroyed the lead -in ratings for 00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:11.359 local affiliate news broadcasts, costing local 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.240 stations millions in ad revenue. And right in 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:16.200 the middle of this multi -billion dollar corporate 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:18.880 bloodbath is John Melendez. Stuck in the crossfire. 00:25:18.980 --> 00:25:21.519 He uprooted his family, survived five years in 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:23.759 the network pressure cooker, and suddenly he 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.099 has no idea if he even has a job. The stress 00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:27.970 must have been insane. The uncertainty is so 00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:30.450 public that Howard Stern actually uses his radio 00:25:30.450 --> 00:25:33.990 show to mockingly offer John his old $20 ,000 00:25:33.990 --> 00:25:37.130 a year job back. Ultimately, Melendez is salvaged. 00:25:37.410 --> 00:25:40.390 He is hired for the ill -fated 10pm Jay Leno 00:25:40.390 --> 00:25:43.670 show in the fall of 2009. Okay, so he stays employed. 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:47.859 But there is a massive shift in his status. He 00:25:47.859 --> 00:25:50.599 is no longer the voice of the show. He is demoted 00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.460 to a staff writer and an occasional contributor 00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:56.039 for comedy segments. I want to push back on the 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.460 word demoted. Was it a demotion or was it a realization 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:02.680 that his specific skill set simply did not translate 00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:04.880 to the rhythm of network television? Well, that's 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.509 a fair point. The sources include a very revealing 00:26:07.509 --> 00:26:10.509 quote from Jay Leno. Leno admitted that his on 00:26:10.509 --> 00:26:12.609 -air interplay with John during those first five 00:26:12.609 --> 00:26:15.289 years was awkward. Yeah, awkward. Leno said, 00:26:15.710 --> 00:26:17.990 I'd throw to Kevin Eubanks, and I'd throw to 00:26:17.990 --> 00:26:22.210 John, and I realize that my guy is Eubanks. That 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:24.930 quote perfectly encapsulates the mechanical difference 00:26:24.930 --> 00:26:27.069 between radio and television comedy. How are 00:26:27.069 --> 00:26:29.150 they different mechanically? They require entirely 00:26:29.150 --> 00:26:31.210 different metabolisms. In the realm of shock 00:26:31.210 --> 00:26:34.430 radio, awkwardness is currency. Right. Dead air, 00:26:34.609 --> 00:26:37.619 stumbling. over a word, genuine discomfort. That 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:40.859 is the raw material. If John messed up reading 00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:43.619 a sponsor read on the radio, Stern would stop 00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:46.759 the broadcast, mock him relentlessly, and spin 00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:49.400 it into 20 minutes of brilliant audio. But late 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:51.799 night TV cannot stop. Exactly. It is a bullet 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:55.180 train. Yeah. It requires slick, rapid fire, highly 00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:58.799 rehearsed precision. If a joke bombs during a 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:01.759 monologue, you don't pause to psychoanalyze the 00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:03.720 failure. You just keep moving. You immediately 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:05.779 fire the next punchline, the band plays a musical 00:27:05.779 --> 00:27:08.960 sting, and you pivot. Leno needed a sparring 00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:12.299 partner who had an innate musical sense of rhythm. 00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:15.220 And Eubanks had that. Right, Kevin Eubanks, as 00:27:15.220 --> 00:27:18.500 an actual jazz musician, had that rhythm. John 00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:20.819 Melendez, whose entire comedic training was based 00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:23.460 on disruption and chaos. did not. Which is why 00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:25.680 his transition to the writer's room makes sense. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.619 When the 10 p .m. experiment predictably imploded 00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.160 and Linno ruthlessly took The Tonight Show back 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:35.119 from Conan O 'Brien in March 2010, John was kept 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.920 on staff. He survived. But Wally Wingert was 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.980 brought in to be the announcer. John spent the 00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:42.759 remainder of Lano's tenure until 2014, sitting 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:44.660 in a writer's room pitching monologue jokes. 00:27:44.779 --> 00:27:46.920 It is an incredible story of survival, honestly. 00:27:47.019 --> 00:27:49.000 He navigated one of the most toxic corporate 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.000 battles in Hollywood, kept his NBC health insurance, 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.119 and stayed employed for a decade. That's no small 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:57.759 feat. But I keep coming back to the tragic irony 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:01.119 of it. He left the most dangerous, culturally 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:03.440 impactful radio show in the country because he 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:05.819 wanted to be a recognized star on television. 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.049 And he achieved it. He did. But over a decade, 00:28:09.529 --> 00:28:13.210 the medium slowly ground him down. He went from 00:28:13.210 --> 00:28:15.690 ambushing spiritual leaders on the red carpet 00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:18.410 to sitting quietly in a cubicle writing jokes 00:28:18.410 --> 00:28:20.630 about politicians he would never actually meet. 00:28:20.970 --> 00:28:24.529 Yeah. Did TV tame the beast? Well, network television 00:28:24.529 --> 00:28:26.769 is fundamentally designed to domesticate. Right. 00:28:26.869 --> 00:28:28.910 That's what it does. It smooths out rough edges 00:28:28.910 --> 00:28:32.130 to appeal to advertisers and a mass demographic. 00:28:32.829 --> 00:28:35.349 Melendez traded his cultural impact for financial 00:28:35.349 --> 00:28:37.690 security. A completely rational. trade. It is 00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:40.410 a completely rational, mature choice for a father 00:28:40.410 --> 00:28:42.650 providing for his family, but it permanently 00:28:42.650 --> 00:28:44.990 altered his trajectory as an entertainer. And 00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:46.730 the problem with trading impact for corporate 00:28:46.730 --> 00:28:48.630 security is that corporate security eventually 00:28:48.630 --> 00:28:51.589 ends. Right. Leno retires. In February 2014, 00:28:51.849 --> 00:28:54.490 Jay Leno retires for good. Jimmy Fallon takes 00:28:54.490 --> 00:28:58.349 over. The massive NBC paycheck stop. The daily 00:28:58.349 --> 00:29:01.480 structure vanishes. The bubble bursts. And John 00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:04.019 Melendez is forced out of the safety of the network 00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:06.960 bubble and into a media landscape that has completely 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:10.339 mutated while he was inside the Internet. This 00:29:10.339 --> 00:29:14.150 final era. from 2014 to the present day in 2026 00:29:14.150 --> 00:29:17.190 is where we see Melendez desperately trying to 00:29:17.190 --> 00:29:21.150 apply 1990s tactics to a 2020s digital ecosystem. 00:29:21.589 --> 00:29:24.549 The internet has completely democratized distribution. 00:29:25.049 --> 00:29:27.470 You don't need Howard Stern's syndication network 00:29:27.470 --> 00:29:30.109 and you don't need NBC's broadcast towers. You 00:29:30.109 --> 00:29:33.119 just need a microphone. So in April 2018, John 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.559 launches the Stuttering John podcast. He is back 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:39.160 behind a microphone, completely unfiltered. Just 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:41.019 him and his audience. And within two months, 00:29:41.059 --> 00:29:43.839 he pulls off a stunt that proves he still possesses 00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.259 that absolute, terrifying audacity. The Air Force 00:29:47.259 --> 00:29:49.900 One incident. Yes. It is perhaps the most significant 00:29:49.900 --> 00:29:52.759 security breach orchestrated by a civilian podcaster 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:54.700 in modern history. Let's walk through exactly 00:29:54.700 --> 00:29:56.579 how this happened, because it sounds like a movie 00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.980 script. It really does. It's June 2018. John 00:29:59.980 --> 00:30:01.640 decides he wants to interview the president. 00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:04.559 He doesn't call the press office. He calls the 00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.500 White House switchboard and simply pretends to 00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:10.000 be an assistant to Senator Bob Menendez from 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.880 New Jersey. He just fakes it. He uses a fake 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.579 name, adopts a confident, authoritative tone, 00:30:15.740 --> 00:30:18.180 and relies entirely on social engineering. And 00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:21.099 the mechanics of social engineering rely on exploiting 00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:23.579 human bureaucracy. How do you mean? By adopting 00:30:23.579 --> 00:30:25.779 the persona of a frantic assistant to a sitting 00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:29.339 senator, he bypassed the technical security apparatus 00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:32.319 because the human operators were trained to facilitate, 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:35.359 not obstruct, congressional communications. And 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.200 it works. Sustounding. He leaves a message, and 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:40.680 he actually receives a callback from President 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.380 Donald Trump. Trump, who is currently flying 00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:44.420 on Air Force One. I mean, think about the level 00:30:44.420 --> 00:30:46.799 of security on that plane. Now, I want to be 00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.220 very clear for the learner. We are not looking 00:30:49.220 --> 00:30:51.539 at the politics of this. We are looking purely 00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:53.900 at the mechanics of media manipulation. Right. 00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.900 It is the Trojan horse strategy elevated to the 00:30:56.900 --> 00:30:59.160 highest possible geopolitical stakes. He doesn't 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.680 just hang up when the president answers. He commits 00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:04.789 to the bit. He stays in character. He impersonates 00:31:04.789 --> 00:31:07.950 Senator Menendez for four full minutes. They 00:31:07.950 --> 00:31:10.869 have a substantive conversation. They discuss 00:31:10.869 --> 00:31:14.250 immigration reform. They discuss a pending Supreme 00:31:14.250 --> 00:31:17.079 Court vacancy. Real policy stuff. The president 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.119 even congratulates him on surviving a recent 00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.940 ethics investigation. The White House communications 00:31:22.940 --> 00:31:25.779 team actually had to issue a statement confirming 00:31:25.779 --> 00:31:28.720 they were duped by a podcaster. And the real 00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:30.740 world consequences were immediate. Yeah, you 00:31:30.740 --> 00:31:32.779 can't just prank call the president. Exactly. 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:35.319 The Secret Service arrived at Melendez's home 00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:37.980 to investigate the breach, forcing him to hire 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:41.039 high profile attorney Michael Avenatti to navigate 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.079 the federal fallout. It proved he could still 00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.440 break the machine. But the podcast era isn't 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.170 just about It's about what you can broadcast. 00:31:47.410 --> 00:31:50.049 It's about who owns what you broadcast. And this 00:31:50.049 --> 00:31:52.150 is where it gets tricky legally. This is where 00:31:52.150 --> 00:31:55.109 John runs into a massive legal brick wall regarding 00:31:55.109 --> 00:31:58.210 his own legacy. In August 2020, Melendez files 00:31:58.210 --> 00:32:01.250 a federal lawsuit against SiriusXM, which is 00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:03.730 the satellite radio behemoth that became the 00:32:03.730 --> 00:32:06.230 exclusive home of Howard Stern's archives. His 00:32:06.230 --> 00:32:08.569 argument makes complete intuitive sense to me. 00:32:08.829 --> 00:32:24.640 Yeah, it does. Which sounds completely unfair. 00:32:24.980 --> 00:32:27.279 So he files the suit in federal court, leaning 00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.000 heavily on California's right of publicity laws, 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:32.579 which are designed to protect celebrities from 00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:35.079 unauthorized commercial exploitation of their 00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:37.519 identities. This raises an important question 00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:39.960 for any creator operating in the digital age. 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.380 Who actually owns your persona when your persona 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:45.980 is inextricably linked to a corporate broadcast? 00:32:46.329 --> 00:32:48.849 And the court's answer was incredibly harsh. 00:32:49.089 --> 00:32:51.869 Yeah, it was. In June 2021, the federal judge 00:32:51.869 --> 00:32:54.630 dismissed the lawsuit entirely. Can you explain 00:32:54.630 --> 00:32:56.430 the mechanics of that ruling? Because if it's 00:32:56.430 --> 00:32:58.650 his voice, how does he not own it? The ruling 00:32:58.650 --> 00:33:01.210 hinged on a legal doctrine called copyright preemption. 00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:03.950 OK, what is that? The judge ruled that federal 00:33:03.950 --> 00:33:07.390 copyright law supersedes or preempts state level 00:33:07.390 --> 00:33:10.009 rights of publicity claims in this specific context. 00:33:10.170 --> 00:33:13.670 So the federal law wins. Essentially, yes. The 00:33:13.670 --> 00:33:16.029 court said that SiriusXM wasn't using John's 00:33:16.029 --> 00:33:18.470 identity to endorse a new product. They were 00:33:18.470 --> 00:33:21.369 simply rebroadcasting a copyrighted sound recording 00:33:21.369 --> 00:33:23.910 that they legally possessed the rights to air. 00:33:25.009 --> 00:33:27.970 The intellectual property, the tape itself, belongs 00:33:27.970 --> 00:33:30.349 to the company that produced it. the individual 00:33:30.349 --> 00:33:32.589 performer, even if they were the star of the 00:33:32.589 --> 00:33:36.269 segment, has no legal claim to the ongoing monetization 00:33:36.269 --> 00:33:38.670 of that specific piece of plastic and magnetic 00:33:38.670 --> 00:33:41.509 tape. Wow. So because the radio station pressed 00:33:41.509 --> 00:33:44.730 record in 1992, they own that version of John 00:33:44.730 --> 00:33:47.230 Melendez forever. Forever. He appealed the decision, 00:33:47.269 --> 00:33:50.569 but he lost the appeal in 2022. He legally does 00:33:50.569 --> 00:33:53.250 not own his own past. No, he hasn't. And while 00:33:53.250 --> 00:33:55.609 he is losing the battle for his history, his 00:33:55.609 --> 00:33:58.490 present online reality is mutating into something 00:33:58.490 --> 00:34:01.609 deeply, deeply strange. Enter the Dabbleverse. 00:34:01.710 --> 00:34:04.029 The Dabbleverse is a vital case study in modern 00:34:04.029 --> 00:34:06.690 Internet sociology and the evolution of audience 00:34:06.690 --> 00:34:09.110 cruelty. Let me set this up. Somewhere in the 00:34:09.110 --> 00:34:12.289 early 2020s, John is doing his podcast and someone 00:34:12.289 --> 00:34:14.690 online casually remarks that he had merely dabbled 00:34:14.690 --> 00:34:16.989 in standup comedy over the years. Just a throwaway 00:34:16.989 --> 00:34:19.570 comment. John, who has always been incredibly 00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:22.269 defensive about his credentials, takes immense 00:34:22.269 --> 00:34:25.309 offense to the word dabbled. Right. He lashes 00:34:25.309 --> 00:34:27.889 out and the internet, sensing blood in the water, 00:34:28.309 --> 00:34:31.389 latches on to that specific word. This triggers 00:34:31.389 --> 00:34:34.420 the formation of an entire anti -fandom. An anti 00:34:34.420 --> 00:34:37.519 -fandom. Yes. An organized online community develops, 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.079 calling themselves the Dabbleverse. Their entire 00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:42.960 purpose is to monitor his daily broadcasts, clip 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.539 his mistakes, highlight his defensive reactions, 00:34:46.099 --> 00:34:49.050 and consume his content purely to mock him. It's 00:34:49.050 --> 00:34:51.849 a phenomenon known as a lolcow culture. Yes, 00:34:52.309 --> 00:34:55.369 a lolcow is harsh internet slang for a creator 00:34:55.369 --> 00:34:58.250 whose eccentricities, perceived arrogance or 00:34:58.250 --> 00:35:00.969 thin skin are continuously provoked by an audience 00:35:00.969 --> 00:35:03.210 so they can be milked for laughs. That sounds 00:35:03.210 --> 00:35:05.349 exhausting. The audience isn't watching out of 00:35:05.349 --> 00:35:08.230 admiration. They're watching, ironically, creating 00:35:08.230 --> 00:35:10.889 a parasitic ecosystem of secondary creators who 00:35:10.889 --> 00:35:13.590 make money simply by reacting to his failures. 00:35:13.789 --> 00:35:16.349 And this online harassment bleeds into the real 00:35:16.349 --> 00:35:19.789 world. In August 2020, The source material notes 00:35:19.789 --> 00:35:21.989 that John filed a lawsuit against a group of 00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:24.269 these dabble verse podcasters. Yeah, he takes 00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:26.929 them to court. And the irony here is so thick 00:35:26.929 --> 00:35:29.960 you could cut it with a knife. One of the main 00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:33.699 guys he is suing is Shuli Igar, who was literally 00:35:33.699 --> 00:35:36.079 one of the guys Howard Stern hired to replace 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:39.400 John during the WinJohns job contest in 2004. 00:35:39.820 --> 00:35:41.760 The layers of history overlapping there are just 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:44.260 incredible. So John is suing them because they 00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:46.840 allegedly secretly recorded his phone calls and 00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:50.079 used his personal items as physical props to 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.980 ridicule him at a live, ticketed comedy event 00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:55.300 in Rochester, New York that they aggressively 00:35:55.300 --> 00:35:58.429 named DowelCon 2. We have to pause and look at 00:35:58.429 --> 00:36:01.050 the profound irony of that lawsuit. It's unbelievable. 00:36:01.269 --> 00:36:04.329 A man who built his entire legacy on ambushing 00:36:04.329 --> 00:36:06.429 people, recording them without their explicit 00:36:06.429 --> 00:36:09.110 consent, and monetizing their public humiliation 00:36:09.110 --> 00:36:13.159 is now spending his 60s fiercely litigating against 00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.840 people for utilizing the exact same tactics against 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.420 him. Which culminates in the final, incredibly 00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:20.519 bleak scene from our sources. Yeah, this is rough. 00:36:20.780 --> 00:36:24.059 It is February 2026, just weeks ago. John is 00:36:24.059 --> 00:36:25.940 booked to headline at Rodney's Comedy Club in 00:36:25.940 --> 00:36:28.360 New York City. Right. He discovers that Anthony 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:30.940 Kimia, another massive figure from the 1990s 00:36:30.940 --> 00:36:33.199 shock radio era, is sitting in the audience. 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:37.260 An old rival from a bygone era. Exactly. So what 00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:40.199 does John do? He doesn't do his rehearsed spandup 00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:43.460 act. He reverts to the muscle memory of 1992. 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.519 Oh, no. He pulls out a stack of crumpled papers 00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:49.320 detailing Kumia's past legal issues and arrest 00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:51.599 records. Just reading from the paper again? And 00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.139 he just stands on a comedy club stage reading 00:36:54.139 --> 00:36:56.619 these legal documents out loud to the crowd for 00:36:56.619 --> 00:36:59.920 10 agonizing minutes. He is trying to recreate 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.860 the magic of the red carpet. He is trying to 00:37:02.860 --> 00:37:06.139 use a piece of paper to systematically humiliate 00:37:06.139 --> 00:37:08.719 an adversary in public. But the mechanics of 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:11.219 the room have changed. It doesn't work. The crowd 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:13.880 isn't listening to a radio broadcast. They're 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.340 sitting in a comedy club expecting jokes. They 00:37:16.340 --> 00:37:19.840 want to last. They turn incredibly hostile. The 00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:21.960 sources describe it as ending in a near riot 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:24.480 with the papers physically being torn from his 00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:26.519 hands by the staff. It perfectly demonstrates 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.059 the shifting context of media. By so. In the 00:37:29.059 --> 00:37:32.099 1990s, punching up at an established, polished 00:37:32.099 --> 00:37:34.820 celebrity with offensive questions was viewed 00:37:34.820 --> 00:37:37.900 as an act of edgy anti -establishment rebellion. 00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:41.059 In 2026, standing on a stage reading a man's 00:37:41.059 --> 00:37:44.039 legal history isn't comedy. It is just a sad, 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:47.320 uncomfortable airing of grievances. The context 00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:49.960 of the medium dictates how the content is received. 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.360 So what does this all mean? When I look at this 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:56.039 entire timeline, I see a massive 30 -year boomerang. 00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:58.739 A boomerang, yeah. In the 90s, he was the guy 00:37:58.739 --> 00:38:00.980 antagonizing the elite for our entertainment. 00:38:01.150 --> 00:38:05.110 Today, an entire internet ecosystem exists solely 00:38:05.110 --> 00:38:07.750 to antagonize him for entertainment. It is a 00:38:07.750 --> 00:38:10.849 cautionary tale about the half life of a persona 00:38:10.849 --> 00:38:14.369 built entirely on disruption. But it is also 00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:17.130 a testament to sheer resilience. For better or 00:38:17.130 --> 00:38:19.710 worse, John Melendez survived the peak consolidation 00:38:19.710 --> 00:38:22.369 of radio syndication, the multi -billion dollar 00:38:22.369 --> 00:38:25.449 bloodbath of network television, and the decentralized 00:38:25.449 --> 00:38:28.369 hypercritical chaos of the modern podcast era. 00:38:28.369 --> 00:38:30.769 He really did. He constantly shapeshifted to 00:38:30.769 --> 00:38:32.989 ensure he stayed in the arena. And for you the 00:38:32.989 --> 00:38:35.269 learner, that is the ultimate takeaway from this 00:38:35.269 --> 00:38:38.190 deep dive. the absolute necessity of adaptability. 00:38:38.590 --> 00:38:40.670 You have to understand the mechanics of the ecosystem 00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:42.989 you are operating within, whether it's an office, 00:38:43.130 --> 00:38:45.809 a creative industry, or the internet. You have 00:38:45.809 --> 00:38:49.150 to adapt. But it also leaves me with a very provocative 00:38:49.150 --> 00:38:51.730 final thought for you to chew on. The landscape 00:38:51.730 --> 00:38:54.769 has fundamentally changed. Exactly. In today's 00:38:54.769 --> 00:38:57.110 hyper -connected, hyper -scrutinized, instantly 00:38:57.110 --> 00:39:00.489 reactive digital world, could a stuttering John 00:39:00.489 --> 00:39:04.150 even exist? It's a great question. If a 20 -year 00:39:04.150 --> 00:39:06.829 -old kid tried to ambush a major celebrity on 00:39:06.829 --> 00:39:10.389 a red carpet today with deeply offensive, unvetted 00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:13.550 questions, would they be rewarded with a million 00:39:13.550 --> 00:39:16.469 -dollar contract on The Tonight Show? Or would 00:39:16.469 --> 00:39:19.809 the PR machine instantly crush them, label them 00:39:19.809 --> 00:39:21.909 a menace, and have them forgotten in the depths 00:39:21.909 --> 00:39:25.409 of a TikTok algorithm within 48 hours? The ecosystem 00:39:25.409 --> 00:39:27.349 that allowed that specific type of disruption 00:39:27.349 --> 00:39:29.710 to be monetized on a corporate level has been 00:39:29.710 --> 00:39:32.289 entirely paved over. us right back to where we 00:39:32.289 --> 00:39:34.989 started. That perfectly manicured red carpet, 00:39:35.250 --> 00:39:37.210 the velvet ropes are tighter, the publicists 00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:39.210 are more aggressive, the system is still there, 00:39:39.230 --> 00:39:41.210 and it is more controlled than ever. But every 00:39:41.210 --> 00:39:43.190 now and then it's worth remembering the guy who 00:39:43.190 --> 00:39:46.130 walked up with a crumpled piece of paper, completely 00:39:46.130 --> 00:39:48.590 broke the machine, and forced us to look at how 00:39:48.590 --> 00:39:50.949 the whole thing is built. Thank you for joining 00:39:50.949 --> 00:39:53.389 us on this deep dive. Keep questioning the media 00:39:53.389 --> 00:39:55.250 landscapes around you, and we'll see you next 00:39:55.250 --> 00:39:55.489 time.