WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.540 welcome to today's deep dive uh we are so glad 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:04.179 you're here because we've spent the week combing 00:00:04.179 --> 00:00:07.059 through this just massive stack of sources for 00:00:07.059 --> 00:00:10.640 you oh yeah so many sources early 20th century 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:14.519 excavation logs some really Dense, modern linguistic 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:16.899 papers. Decades of historical critiques, yeah. 00:00:17.019 --> 00:00:19.839 And we did all of that to unpack a single tiny 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:22.719 object. Right. And when we say tiny, I mean it's 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:24.559 really small. It could easily sit right in the 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.460 palm of your hand. Yeah, exactly. Yet this little 00:00:27.460 --> 00:00:32.729 piece of carved stone has sparked... Well, one 00:00:32.729 --> 00:00:35.210 of the most intense, enduring archaeological 00:00:35.210 --> 00:00:38.289 debates of the last century. It really has. It's 00:00:38.289 --> 00:00:40.549 a remarkable piece of history. What we're looking 00:00:40.549 --> 00:00:42.850 at today is essentially a masterclass in human 00:00:42.850 --> 00:00:45.750 bias. Right. It forces us to examine this concept 00:00:45.750 --> 00:00:48.289 called historical projection, which is, you know, 00:00:48.310 --> 00:00:50.310 the tendency we have to look at the past and 00:00:50.310 --> 00:00:52.929 unconsciously project our own modern cultural 00:00:52.929 --> 00:00:55.509 lenses or later religious developments right 00:00:55.509 --> 00:00:58.789 onto ancient artifacts. And that projection is 00:00:58.789 --> 00:01:00.710 really the overarching theme of the sources we 00:01:00.710 --> 00:01:02.759 are looking at today. Our mission for this deep 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:05.299 dive is to explore what is commonly known as 00:01:05.299 --> 00:01:07.840 the Pashupati seal. The Pashupati seal, yeah. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.859 It's this stunning artifact from the ancient 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:13.599 Indus Valley civilization, and it basically serves 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:16.280 as an archaeological inkblot test. That is the 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:18.900 perfect way to describe it. Right, because however 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:22.079 historians or linguists or archaeologists choose 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:24.579 to look at it, the seal seems to just reflect 00:01:24.579 --> 00:01:26.620 their own pre -existing theories right back at 00:01:26.620 --> 00:01:30.280 them. Okay, let's unpack this. What exactly is 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.920 the physical object and where do we find it? 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:36.959 Well, the baseline facts are fairly straightforward. 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:40.480 This is a stamp seal made of steatite. Which 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:42.560 is basically soapstone, right? Exactly. Commonly 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.280 known as soapstone. It was excavated from Mohenjo 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:47.920 -Daro, which was one of the major urban centers 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.680 of the Indus Valley civilization located in modern 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:53.359 day Pakistan. The excavation took place in either 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.079 1928 or 1929. The records are a little... A little 00:01:57.079 --> 00:01:59.099 fuzzy. Yeah, a little fuzzy on the exact year. 00:01:59.219 --> 00:02:02.120 But it was led by the archaeologist Ernest McKay. 00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:04.739 And at the time, the region was under British 00:02:04.739 --> 00:02:07.319 rule. So the dig was managed by the Archaeological 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:10.280 Survey of India. McKay dated the seal to the 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.620 Intermediate I period. Which means what exactly 00:02:12.620 --> 00:02:15.319 in terms of years? It means it was carved somewhere 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:20.099 around 2350 to 2000 BCE. Wow. So we're dealing 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:23.139 with something over 4 ,000 years old. Now, to 00:02:23.139 --> 00:02:25.379 understand why this specific seal matters to 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:27.560 you, out of the thousands of seals recovered 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:29.860 from the Indus Valley, we really have to look 00:02:29.860 --> 00:02:31.639 at the sheer weight of the theories attached 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:34.699 to it. The theories are heavy. Very heavy. This 00:02:34.699 --> 00:02:37.120 singular artifact has heavily influenced how 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.159 scholars understand the historical development 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:42.500 of religion in South Asia, specifically the ancient 00:02:42.500 --> 00:02:45.439 roots of Hinduism. Right. And yet, despite that 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:47.580 influence, almost every single interpretation 00:02:47.580 --> 00:02:50.930 of what this seal actually depicts is fiercely 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:53.250 contested. Which is exactly why we need to look 00:02:53.250 --> 00:02:55.150 closely at the physical details before we get 00:02:55.150 --> 00:02:57.110 into those theories. I mean, if we don't know 00:02:57.110 --> 00:02:59.169 what is actually carved into the stone, the debates 00:02:59.169 --> 00:03:01.050 won't make any sense at all. Let's do it. If 00:03:01.050 --> 00:03:02.629 you were holding this artifact right now, and 00:03:02.629 --> 00:03:05.169 like we said, it's tiny, just about an inch and 00:03:05.169 --> 00:03:08.770 a half wide. Yeah, 3 .56 by 3 .53 centimeters 00:03:08.770 --> 00:03:12.310 to be exact, and only 7 .6 millimeters thick. 00:03:12.610 --> 00:03:14.949 Right, so a tiny little square. The first thing 00:03:14.949 --> 00:03:17.009 you'd notice isn't the background, it's the posture 00:03:17.009 --> 00:03:35.280 of the figure in the center. Mm -hmm. And the 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.539 sheer density of the carving in that tiny, you 00:03:38.539 --> 00:03:42.360 know, seven millimeter thick square is just incredible. 00:03:42.620 --> 00:03:45.479 It's so intricate. Very. The figure's arms are 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.860 almost entirely covered in bangles. There are 00:03:47.860 --> 00:03:50.159 eight small ones and three large ones on each 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:52.460 arm. Plus there's a double band wrapped around 00:03:52.460 --> 00:03:54.620 the waist and several layered necklaces covering 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:57.719 the chest. A lot of jewelry. A lot. But the element 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.000 that immediately draws the eye is the head. The 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.900 figure wears this very tall, elaborate headdress 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:07.300 with a central fan -shaped structure, and that 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:10.259 is flanked by two large, distinctly striated 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:12.680 horns. And the figure isn't alone on this seal 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.020 either. There is an entire menagerie surrounding 00:04:15.020 --> 00:04:17.860 them. On one side, you have an elephant and a 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:20.680 tiger. On the other side, a water buffalo and 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:24.000 an Indian rhinoceros. And then right beneath 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.620 the platform, there are two deer or possibly 00:04:26.620 --> 00:04:29.360 ibexes. They are looking backwards over their 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:31.579 shoulders, positioned so their curved horns almost 00:04:31.579 --> 00:04:33.899 meet right in the center. What's fascinating 00:04:33.899 --> 00:04:36.740 here is the post -excavation history of this 00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:39.620 little stone, which is a story of literal historical 00:04:39.620 --> 00:04:42.160 division. Oh, this part is wild. It really is. 00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:44.839 Initially, the finds from Mohenjo -daro were 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:47.220 taken to the Lahore Museum, but they were later 00:04:47.220 --> 00:04:49.379 moved to New Delhi because the British Raj was 00:04:49.379 --> 00:04:52.420 planning a new central imperial museum. But then, 00:04:52.459 --> 00:04:55.040 of course, we get to 1947. Yes, the monumental 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.040 partition of India. Right. And suddenly, all 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.819 these 4 ,000 -year -old artifacts become a matter 00:05:00.819 --> 00:05:03.680 of international custody. Pakistan naturally 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:05.819 requested the return of the Harappan artifacts 00:05:05.819 --> 00:05:08.519 excavated on their newly established territory, 00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:12.040 and India initially refused. Which led to a rather 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:14.680 tense negotiation. It eventually resulted in 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.199 an agreement to split the approximately 12 ,000 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.959 excavated objects equally between the two countries. 00:05:20.100 --> 00:05:23.639 50 -50. It's exactly 50 -50. And they executed 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.379 the split with a literalism that is almost hard 00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:29.569 to believe. They took ancient necklaces and girdles, 00:05:29.649 --> 00:05:32.569 sat down in a room, and separated the individual 00:05:32.569 --> 00:05:35.589 beads into two piles. One for India, one for 00:05:35.589 --> 00:05:38.629 Pakistan. Yes, literally splitting beads. Can 00:05:38.629 --> 00:05:40.790 you just imagine the bureaucratic absurdity of 00:05:40.790 --> 00:05:42.829 that? Right. Two government officials sitting 00:05:42.829 --> 00:05:46.329 in a museum backroom somewhere, dealing out millennia 00:05:46.329 --> 00:05:49.069 -old necklace beads like a deck of cards. It's 00:05:49.069 --> 00:05:51.670 crazy, but it highlights how desperately both 00:05:51.670 --> 00:05:53.970 new nations wanted to claim this ancient heritage. 00:05:54.750 --> 00:05:56.910 But when it came to dividing the most celebrated 00:05:56.910 --> 00:05:59.509 sculpted figures, they obviously couldn't split 00:05:59.509 --> 00:06:01.569 a stone carving in half. Right, you can't snap 00:06:01.569 --> 00:06:04.069 a soapstone seal in two. Exactly. So Pakistan 00:06:04.069 --> 00:06:06.689 asked for and received the famous Priest -King 00:06:06.689 --> 00:06:09.370 figure. And in exchange, India retained the iconic 00:06:09.370 --> 00:06:12.089 Dancing Girl statue, and they kept the Pashupati 00:06:12.089 --> 00:06:15.329 seal. So today, it resides in the National Museum 00:06:15.329 --> 00:06:18.319 of India in New Delhi. Okay, so with the custody 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:20.639 battle settled, we have to dive into what scholars 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:23.139 actually think this intricately carved, incredibly 00:06:23.139 --> 00:06:25.680 contested piece of soapstone represents. And 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:27.420 to do that, we have to start with John Marshall. 00:06:27.620 --> 00:06:29.839 Right. He was the director general of the Archaeological 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.540 Survey of India at the time. And when Marshall 00:06:32.540 --> 00:06:35.300 looked at this seal, he established a foundational 00:06:35.300 --> 00:06:38.040 interpretation that would basically dominate 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.500 the field for the next half century. It was the 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:43.420 gold standard. It was. He claimed this figure 00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:46.199 was an early prototype of the major Hindu god 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.970 Shiva. specifically in his form as Pashupati, 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:53.569 which translates to the Lord of Animals. Now, 00:06:53.589 --> 00:06:55.430 Marshall's argument wasn't just a shot in the 00:06:55.430 --> 00:06:57.449 dark. It was a highly structured interpretation 00:06:57.449 --> 00:07:00.389 of the visual evidence. When he looked at the 00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:02.850 central figure, he was immediately struck by 00:07:02.850 --> 00:07:06.029 the face, or rather, the faces. The faces, right. 00:07:06.170 --> 00:07:08.709 He interpreted the carving as having three distinct 00:07:08.709 --> 00:07:12.170 faces, one facing forward and two in profile, 00:07:12.490 --> 00:07:15.009 with a fourth possibly implied at the back. Which 00:07:15.009 --> 00:07:17.339 immediately makes you think of Shiva. Considering 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:19.560 later Hindu art frequently portrays Shiva with 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:22.180 three or five faces. Yes. And then Marshall looked 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:24.759 at that massive horned headdress and drew a direct 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:27.399 line to Shiva's characteristic emblem, the trizala, 00:07:27.579 --> 00:07:30.199 or the trident. So that's the head. What about 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.720 the body? Well, he didn't stop at the head. Right. 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:35.740 He analyzed that very specific sitting posture 00:07:35.740 --> 00:07:38.639 you described earlier. Marshall identified it 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:42.180 as a typical yoga attitude, specifically a pose 00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:45.540 called Mulabandhasana. Okay. Because Shiva is 00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:48.500 traditionally regarded as a Mahayogi. You know, 00:07:48.500 --> 00:07:50.500 the great yogi or the prince of yogis, Marshall, 00:07:50.660 --> 00:07:54.180 saw this physical posture as an undeniable direct 00:07:54.180 --> 00:07:57.379 link. And other scholars, like Thomas McEvely, 00:07:57.500 --> 00:08:00.100 supported this by noting that this specific squatting 00:08:00.100 --> 00:08:02.899 position with joined heels is actually described 00:08:02.899 --> 00:08:05.660 in much later texts as a posture used with meditation 00:08:05.660 --> 00:08:09.600 and fasting to achieve Then you add in the surrounding 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.439 menagerie. I mean, if Shiva is known par excellence 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:15.879 as the Lord of Animals or Pashupati, it makes 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:18.459 perfect sense to Marshall that this central yogic 00:08:18.459 --> 00:08:21.160 figure is surrounded by wild jungle beasts and 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:23.319 deer. Right. It all fits together for him. But 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:25.420 there was one more detail Marshall pointed out, 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:27.100 which turned out to be incredibly controversial. 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.279 He believed the figure was isophalic. Meaning 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:32.519 it was depicted with an erect phallus. Exactly. 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.080 And Marshall linked this directly to Shiva's 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.019 historical and religious. association with the 00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:39.610 linga. This specific analysis by Marshall was 00:08:39.610 --> 00:08:42.649 monumentally influential. For at least two generations, 00:08:42.950 --> 00:08:45.690 this proto -Shiva interpretation was just the 00:08:45.690 --> 00:08:48.210 accepted reality for archaeologists and historians. 00:08:48.690 --> 00:08:51.649 It was canon. It was. It profoundly shaped how 00:08:51.649 --> 00:08:54.769 everyone understood the origins of Hinduism. 00:08:54.950 --> 00:08:57.870 Even scholars who later wrote scathing critiques 00:08:57.870 --> 00:09:00.529 of Marshall's interpretation had to admit that 00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:03.909 his view was the default baseline. You simply 00:09:03.909 --> 00:09:06.549 could not discuss Indus Valley religion without 00:09:06.549 --> 00:09:10.919 debate. But as we know, historical consensus 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.539 is usually just an invitation for someone to 00:09:13.539 --> 00:09:15.779 take a closer look. Here's where it gets really 00:09:15.779 --> 00:09:18.120 interesting. Oh, yeah. A scholar named Herbert 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:20.860 Sullivan came along, scrutinized that tiny seal, 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.419 and proposed a massive counter theory. Yeah. 00:09:23.500 --> 00:09:25.639 He asked a fundamental question. What if Marshall 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:28.240 and everyone else were entirely wrong about the 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.200 gender of the figure? That's a huge pimp. Massive. 00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:33.759 What if this wasn't a male god at all, but a 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.320 female goddess? This brings up an important point 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.960 about that specific controversial detail we just 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.559 mentioned. Sullivan made a brilliant observation 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:45.340 about the supposedly erect phallus. He suggested 00:09:45.340 --> 00:09:48.059 that it might simply be a misinterpretation of 00:09:48.059 --> 00:09:49.960 the figure's clothing. A wardrobe malfunction 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.059 of historical proportions. Exactly. Sullivan 00:09:53.059 --> 00:09:55.559 argued it was actually just the dangling end 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:58.379 of a waistband or a girdle. And to be completely 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:00.919 fair to the historical record, even Marshall 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.240 himself had conceded in his original writings 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:05.690 that a waistband was a distinct possibility. 00:10:06.169 --> 00:10:08.809 But if you assume it's a waistband, how does 00:10:08.809 --> 00:10:10.830 Sullivan get all the way to a female goddess? 00:10:11.470 --> 00:10:14.129 He didn't just guess. He looked at the broader 00:10:14.129 --> 00:10:17.269 context of Indus Valley art. He zoomed out. Right. 00:10:17.309 --> 00:10:19.330 When you look at the thousands of terracotta 00:10:19.330 --> 00:10:21.669 figurines recovered from these sites, a very 00:10:21.669 --> 00:10:24.110 consistent pattern emerges. The male figurines 00:10:24.110 --> 00:10:26.769 are almost universally depicted completely nude. 00:10:26.950 --> 00:10:28.549 Right. And then you look back at the Pashupati 00:10:28.549 --> 00:10:31.570 seal. The figure is practically dripping in jewelry. 00:10:32.429 --> 00:10:34.850 Eight small bangles, three large ones on each 00:10:34.850 --> 00:10:37.389 arm, a double band around the waist, multiple 00:10:37.389 --> 00:10:40.250 heavy necklaces. It's definitely a look. It is. 00:10:40.529 --> 00:10:42.769 Sullivan pointed out that this extensive use 00:10:42.769 --> 00:10:45.470 of adornment is entirely characteristic of the 00:10:45.470 --> 00:10:48.110 female terracotta figurines found across the 00:10:48.110 --> 00:10:51.330 civilization. So if you follow the fashion rules 00:10:51.330 --> 00:10:54.350 established by their own artisans, this heavily 00:10:54.350 --> 00:10:57.110 bejeweled Proto -Shiva suddenly looks a lot more 00:10:57.110 --> 00:10:59.940 like a powerful female deity. It's a perfect 00:10:59.940 --> 00:11:02.039 example of that historical projection we talked 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:05.080 about at the beginning. Marshall, operating in 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:08.480 the early 20th century, saw a powerful central 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:11.539 religious figure and likely defaulted to assuming 00:11:11.539 --> 00:11:14.379 it was male, forcing the visual evidence to fit 00:11:14.379 --> 00:11:16.679 a proto -Shiva narrative. And the challenges 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:18.779 to Marshall's vision didn't stop at gender either. 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:22.059 Doris Srinivasan, a professor of Indian Studies, 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.299 offered a reinterpretation that completely dismantled 00:11:25.299 --> 00:11:27.500 Marshall's reading of the figure's head. Oh right, 00:11:27.659 --> 00:11:29.779 the faces. Yeah, remember how Marshall was certain 00:11:29.779 --> 00:11:32.990 he saw three human faces? Well, Srinivasan looked 00:11:32.990 --> 00:11:35.230 at the exact same millimeter of carved stone 00:11:35.230 --> 00:11:37.769 and saw something completely different. She argued 00:11:37.769 --> 00:11:39.549 that the lateral projections on the sides of 00:11:39.549 --> 00:11:41.830 the head aren't human faces in profile at all. 00:11:42.049 --> 00:11:45.029 Instead, she proposed they are lateral cow -like 00:11:45.029 --> 00:11:49.250 ears. So not three human faces, but one single 00:11:49.250 --> 00:11:52.570 face with predominant bovine features. Precisely. 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:55.840 Sreenivasan drew visual comparisons between this 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.820 seal and other Indus Valley artifacts, like a 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:01.700 horned mask from Mohenjo -daro and a terracotta 00:12:01.700 --> 00:12:05.080 bull from Calabangan. Based on these links, she 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.559 suggested that the figure isn't a human god at 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:10.860 all, but rather a divine buffalo man. Which introduces 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:13.379 a massive paradigm shift because it perfectly 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:15.559 aligns with scholars who argue we should be looking 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:18.379 at the Indus Valley civilization through a Dravidian 00:12:18.379 --> 00:12:22.220 context rather than a Vedic context. Yes. And 00:12:22.220 --> 00:12:23.960 for those catching up on the terminology, this 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:26.799 is essentially a debate over lineage. The Dravidian 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:29.399 context links the Indus people to the indigenous 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:32.299 ancestors of modern South Indians, while the 00:12:32.299 --> 00:12:34.679 Vedic context attempts to link them to the later 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.120 arriving Indo -Aryan cultures that produce the 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.320 Vedas. That cultural framework changes everything 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.580 because then you get a scholar like Arif Hiltibital 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:44.159 who took this Dravidian approach and he noticed 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:46.139 something crucial about the horns on the headdress. 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:48.379 He pointed out that they are distinctly buffalo 00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:51.200 horns, not bull horns. That distinction is vital. 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:53.960 It really is. Because the people of the Indus 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:56.080 Valley were intimately familiar with both animals, 00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:58.240 and their artisans would not have confused the 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.419 two. A proto -Shiva with bullhorns might make 00:13:01.419 --> 00:13:03.879 sense as a prefiguration of Shiva's later connection 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.940 to his bull mount, Nandi. But a proto -Shiva 00:13:06.940 --> 00:13:10.120 with buffalo horns? Hildebetel argued that requires 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:13.320 far too much explanatory gymnastics to be credible. 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:16.980 So if we follow Hiltabaitl's logic and we have 00:13:16.980 --> 00:13:19.620 a buffalo figure in a Dravidian context, who 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.039 are we looking at? Exactly. Hiltabaitl leans 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:24.679 into the Durga mythos here, suggesting this could 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.299 be an early prototype of Mahishasura, the famous 00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:29.940 buffalo demon who serves as the great adversary 00:13:29.940 --> 00:13:33.039 to the Hindu goddess Durga. Wow. And there is 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:34.919 a compelling piece of evidence right there on 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:38.309 the seal, the tiger. In the Hindu pantheon, Durga 00:13:38.309 --> 00:13:41.350 is famously depicted riding a tiger or a lion 00:13:41.350 --> 00:13:44.009 into battle. Heltebeetle also theorized that 00:13:44.009 --> 00:13:45.570 the surrounding animals aren't just a random 00:13:45.570 --> 00:13:48.570 jungle scene, but might represent Vahanas. Vahanas 00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:51.549 being the animal mounts or vehicles for the gods. 00:13:51.710 --> 00:13:54.009 Right. Animal mounts for deities guarding the 00:13:54.009 --> 00:13:56.350 four cardinal directions. But the deeper you 00:13:56.350 --> 00:13:59.429 go into the Dravidian interpretations, the further 00:13:59.429 --> 00:14:02.350 you get from a religious context entirely. The 00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:04.789 American archaeologist Walter Fairservice attempted 00:14:04.789 --> 00:14:07.049 to systematically translate the Indus script 00:14:07.049 --> 00:14:09.110 located at the top of the seal. That's always 00:14:09.110 --> 00:14:11.470 dangerous ground since it's undeciphered. Yeah, 00:14:11.570 --> 00:14:14.110 but he tried. Through his linguistic analysis, 00:14:14.509 --> 00:14:16.730 he concluded it was a Dravidian inscription that 00:14:16.730 --> 00:14:20.149 didn't identify a god at all. Instead, fair service 00:14:20.149 --> 00:14:22.370 argued the figure was a paramount clan chief 00:14:22.370 --> 00:14:25.309 named Anil, who was representing four distinct 00:14:25.309 --> 00:14:28.289 clans symbolized by the four surrounding animals. 00:14:28.490 --> 00:14:31.090 That grounds the seal in completely secular political 00:14:31.090 --> 00:14:34.169 power rather than divine worship. Totally. But 00:14:34.169 --> 00:14:36.929 the interpretations keep branching out. The Finnish 00:14:36.929 --> 00:14:39.909 Indologist Asko Parpola brought a totally different 00:14:39.909 --> 00:14:43.269 geographic perspective. He did. Parpolo looked 00:14:43.269 --> 00:14:46.169 at the famous yogic posture, that squatting position 00:14:46.169 --> 00:14:48.409 with the joined heels, and suggested it might 00:14:48.409 --> 00:14:51.049 not be yoga at all. He argued it could simply 00:14:51.049 --> 00:14:53.429 be an imitation of the way Proto -Elamites represented 00:14:53.429 --> 00:14:56.370 seated bulls in their art. The Proto -Elamites 00:14:56.370 --> 00:14:58.710 being an ancient civilization located in what 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:02.330 is now southwestern Iran. Exactly. We know there 00:15:02.330 --> 00:15:05.009 were extensive, robust, cross -cultural trade 00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:07.149 networks between the Indus Valley and ancient 00:15:07.149 --> 00:15:09.629 Iran, so it makes perfect sense that artistic 00:15:09.629 --> 00:15:12.070 motifs and symbols would travel along those same 00:15:12.070 --> 00:15:14.250 routes. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And 00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:16.690 Parpala also attempted his own translation of 00:15:16.690 --> 00:15:18.769 the inscription and concluded the figure represents 00:15:18.769 --> 00:15:21.629 a servant of an aquatic deity possibly related 00:15:21.629 --> 00:15:24.330 to the Hindu god Varuna. He pointed out that 00:15:24.330 --> 00:15:26.730 aquatic themes, like the great bath at Mohenjo 00:15:26.730 --> 00:15:29.350 -daro, were highly prominent in Indus society. 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.799 So let's just recap the sheer variety of what 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:34.200 we have here. From the exact same carving, we 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.899 have a Proto -Shiva, a female goddess, a divine 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:40.259 buffalo demon, a secular clan chief, and a servant 00:15:40.259 --> 00:15:42.600 of an aquatic deity connected to ancient Iranian 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.720 trade routes. It's dizzying. It is. And just 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.000 to prove how flexible the evidence is, there's 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.500 even a purely Vedic interpretation from a scholar 00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:53.519 named MVN Krishna Rao. He looked at the seal 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.500 and decided the figure was actually the Hindu 00:15:55.500 --> 00:15:58.830 fire god, Indra. Rao's methodology is a fascinating 00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:01.330 example of how far scholars will go to make the 00:16:01.330 --> 00:16:04.070 evidence fit their framework. He utilized a sort 00:16:04.070 --> 00:16:07.309 of ancient linguistic math. Linguistic math is 00:16:07.309 --> 00:16:10.149 the perfect way to describe it. Because Rao argued 00:16:10.149 --> 00:16:12.929 that you could selectively ignore some of the 00:16:12.929 --> 00:16:15.110 animals on the seal. Just ignore them. Just ignore 00:16:15.110 --> 00:16:17.570 them. He said you can ignore the tiger because 00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:19.750 the artisan drew it much larger than the rest. 00:16:19.809 --> 00:16:21.730 And you can ignore the deer because they are 00:16:21.730 --> 00:16:25.730 shoved under the platform. Then he took the first 00:16:25.730 --> 00:16:28.429 foam. the first sound of the remaining animals' 00:16:28.529 --> 00:16:31.590 names in ancient Sanskrit. He combined those 00:16:31.590 --> 00:16:34.750 sounds with the word Nara, meaning man, and managed 00:16:34.750 --> 00:16:37.769 to spell out the word Makhanasana, which just 00:16:37.769 --> 00:16:40.590 happens to be an epithet of the god Indra. It 00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:43.049 perfectly illustrates the length to which interpretation 00:16:43.049 --> 00:16:45.909 can be stretched. We have highly credentialed 00:16:45.909 --> 00:16:48.110 scholars looking at the exact same millimeter 00:16:48.110 --> 00:16:50.730 -wide carvings and walking away with completely 00:16:50.730 --> 00:16:53.149 contradictory conclusions based on linguistic 00:16:53.149 --> 00:16:55.509 puzzles, comparative anatomy, and the selective 00:16:55.509 --> 00:16:58.289 reading of ancient texts. And we should say here, 00:16:58.350 --> 00:17:00.429 it is important to remember as we discuss these 00:17:00.429 --> 00:17:02.970 theories that we are simply reporting on the 00:17:02.970 --> 00:17:05.940 scholarship. We aren't endorsing any specific 00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:08.640 religious viewpoint or taking a side in these 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.279 complex political and historical debates. Absolutely 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:13.019 not. We are just looking at the source material. 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.220 So what does this all mean? How are you, the 00:17:16.220 --> 00:17:18.599 listener, supposed to make sense of a situation 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.420 where the smartest people in the room look at 00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:25.079 a single piece of soapstone and see a dozen entirely 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:28.019 different realities? If we connect this to the 00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:31.220 bigger picture, it serves as a massive cautionary 00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:34.380 tale for archaeology and history. Modern scholars 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.740 in the 21st century have really started to urge 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:39.980 extreme caution when interpreting this seal. 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:42.099 Yeah, pulling back on the reins a bit. For sure. 00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:44.720 The American Indologist Wendy Doniger points 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:46.579 out something fundamental that cuts through a 00:17:46.579 --> 00:17:48.619 lot of the noise. She says that just because 00:17:48.619 --> 00:17:51.339 there is a visual resemblance between this ancient 00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:54.319 figure and much later Hindu images of Shiva, 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:56.880 that does not mean the Indus images are the source. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.180 Right. It doesn't mean they held the same meaning 00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:01.839 to the people who carved them 4 ,000 years ago. 00:18:02.019 --> 00:18:04.220 It's that projection again. It would be like 00:18:04.220 --> 00:18:07.079 a future historian finding a modern peace sign 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.680 carved into a rock and assuming the people who 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:12.559 made it were protesting nuclear weapons simply 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.859 because the shape is the same. That's a great 00:18:14.859 --> 00:18:17.859 analogy. The shape might survive, but the cultural 00:18:17.859 --> 00:18:21.460 context is everything. Precisely. And the scholar 00:18:21.460 --> 00:18:23.859 Jeffrey Samuel highlights the real danger of 00:18:23.859 --> 00:18:26.720 this vacuum of knowledge. He states plainly that 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.640 these multiple, highly specific and beautifully 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.700 argued interpretations certainly cannot all be 00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:35.200 right. They just structurally can't be. No. The 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.519 harsh reality is that we actually know very little 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:40.259 with absolute certainty about the religious practices 00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:43.200 of the Indus Valley civilization. Because of 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:45.759 that blank space in our history, scholars have 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.359 an overwhelming tendency to take later religious 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.079 practices, whether they are Vedic, Dravidian, 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.720 Tantric, or otherwise, and project them backward 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:56.029 into the past to fill the void. Nature abhors 00:18:56.029 --> 00:18:59.269 a vacuum, and so do historians. Exactly. Samuel 00:18:59.269 --> 00:19:01.690 argues that relying on later practices to read 00:19:01.690 --> 00:19:04.049 this material is of little to no use for constructing 00:19:04.049 --> 00:19:06.210 an actual, accurate history of what was happening 00:19:06.210 --> 00:19:08.670 in Mahenjodaro. It is incredibly humbling. We 00:19:08.670 --> 00:19:11.250 want so badly to understand our past, to draw 00:19:11.250 --> 00:19:13.450 a clean, straight line from ancient beliefs to 00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:16.009 modern culture. But the Pashupati seal refuses 00:19:16.009 --> 00:19:18.029 to give us that easy answer. It really does. 00:19:18.289 --> 00:19:20.609 While we may never definitively know the true 00:19:20.609 --> 00:19:22.670 identity of the horned figure sitting among the 00:19:22.670 --> 00:19:26.019 animals, It remains a brilliant case study. It 00:19:26.019 --> 00:19:28.759 shows us exactly how we search for meaning, how 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.700 we argue over our origins, and how our own deeply 00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:34.900 held perspectives shape what we see when we brush 00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:37.779 the dirt off an ancient artifact. It is the ultimate 00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:40.829 historical mirror. But before we finish today's 00:19:40.829 --> 00:19:43.069 deep dive, I want to leave you with one final 00:19:43.069 --> 00:19:45.589 detail from the sources to mull over. Oh, this 00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:47.930 is a good one. We've spent all this time debating 00:19:47.930 --> 00:19:50.569 the figure, analyzing the horns and trying to 00:19:50.569 --> 00:19:53.369 identify the animals. But at the very top of 00:19:53.369 --> 00:19:55.349 the seal, floating directly above the central 00:19:55.349 --> 00:19:57.809 figure, there is a string of seven indescript 00:19:57.809 --> 00:20:00.150 symbols. Right at the top. Because the indescript 00:20:00.150 --> 00:20:03.009 remains completely undeciphered, those seven 00:20:03.009 --> 00:20:05.990 symbols almost certainly hold the actual literal 00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:08.549 answer to what the seal means and who this figure 00:20:08.549 --> 00:20:11.509 is. is, it's written right there mocking us and 00:20:11.509 --> 00:20:14.170 we simply cannot read it. So frustrating. It 00:20:14.170 --> 00:20:16.769 is. But what is truly fascinating is the arrangement 00:20:16.769 --> 00:20:20.130 of those symbols. If you look closely, the artisan 00:20:20.130 --> 00:20:22.690 who carved this seal thousands of years ago was 00:20:22.690 --> 00:20:24.910 trying to fit them all in a neat horizontal line 00:20:24.910 --> 00:20:27.730 across the top. But they misjudged the space. 00:20:27.950 --> 00:20:29.910 They ran out of room. They ran out of room. Because 00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:32.789 of that very human error, the seventh and final 00:20:32.789 --> 00:20:35.230 symbol is awkwardly displaced, shoved downwards 00:20:35.230 --> 00:20:37.750 just to make it fit on the stone. It makes you 00:20:37.869 --> 00:20:40.390 wonder, if we ever do crack the indescript, will 00:20:40.390 --> 00:20:43.009 those seven squished symbols finally settle a 00:20:43.009 --> 00:20:45.309 century of intense religious and geopolitical 00:20:45.309 --> 00:20:47.589 debate? Or will they just tell us the name of 00:20:47.589 --> 00:20:49.710 an everyday merchant who is terrible at planning 00:20:49.710 --> 00:20:51.789 his spacing? We'll leave you to chew on that.