Welcome to the Deep Dive. We are really thrilled
to have you with us today. Yeah, thanks for joining
us. You know, if you're anything like me, you
probably have a playlist full of those songs
that just make you want to move. Oh, absolutely.
You know the ones I mean, the songs with bass
lines that just get stuck in your head and horn
sections that practically punch through the speakers.
Right, the stuff that immediately shifts your
mood. Exactly. But there's a really strong chance
that one of the primary architects of that exact
feeling The literal blueprint for what we now
call funk music is a name you might not actually
know. It's a remarkable hidden history, really,
because today we are looking at the life, the
incredibly extensive discography and the legacy
of Alfred James Rogers. Right. Though to the
world and certainly to the generations of musicians
who just revered him, he was universally known
as Pee Wee Ellis. Pee Wee Ellis. So our mission
for you today is to explore how this one incredible
musician's journey provided the exact ingredients
needed to literally invent an entire. new genre.
Yeah, and it's quite a journey. It really is.
We are going to trace his path from a deeply
segregated childhood to this really rigorous,
obsessive jazz training. And we'll look at how
his influence quietly bridges just countless
musical genres. Because you have almost certainly
heard his groundbreaking arrangements, even if
his name hasn't crossed your radar. Definitely.
The impact of his work is so deeply embedded
in modern music that it continually resurfaces.
I mean, to give you an idea of that lasting power,
a single song he co -wrote back in 1968 saw a
staggering 15 ,740 % jump in streams in just
one week. And that was in the year 2020. Right.
Over 50 years later. It's an unbelievable statistic.
15 ,740%. And it really sets the stage for what
we're going to uncover here. His story is one
of profound resilience, relentless dedication
to his craft, and this amazing open -mindedness.
Which allowed him to constantly reinvent himself
over a career spanning more than six decades.
And that reinvention didn't happen by accident.
It was a result of a very specific, very challenging
foundation. Okay, let's unpack this. We have
to start at the beginning to really understand
the man and the music. Alfred James Rogers. was
born in Bradenton, Florida in 1941. Right. His
biological father left when he was young. And
then in 1949, his mother married a man named
Ezell Ellis. And Ezell was an organizer for local
dance bands. Which meant music was immediately
a permanent fixture in the house. Constantly.
The family eventually ended up moving to Lubbock,
Texas. And we have to remember Lubbock at that
time was a highly segregated town. But inside
the Ellis home, there was this constant flow
of creativity. A safe haven of sorts. Exactly.
Various musicians were always passing through
and staying with the family. It was actually
these visiting musicians who gave him the nickname
Pee Wee. Just because of his small stature as
a kid, right? Yeah, just a term of endearment
that stuck with him his entire life. But the
realities of living in deeply segregated Texas
in the 1950s? They couldn't be kept outside the
door forever. No, they couldn't. And it's vital
to look at a deeply tragic reality from 1955
to truly understand the worldview that shaped
Ellis's later work. While they were living in
Lubbock, a horrific event occurred. The source
material notes that a white woman insisted on
dancing with his stepfather, Ezell. Right. This
interaction enraged a white man who was watching,
and that man stabbed Ezell. It's just devastating.
And the tragedy didn't end with the attack itself.
No. The aftermath was equally horrific. Ezell,
who was African -American, subsequently died
because a local hospital explicitly refused to
treat him based entirely on the color of his
skin. He was only a young teenager when that
happened. To lose a father figure in such a brutal,
systematically unjust way. If we connect this
to the bigger picture, this early exposure to
extreme, fatal racial injustice forms a vital,
undeniable backdrop to the powerful civil rights
anthems that Pee Wee Ellis would go on to write
and arrange just a decade later. The emotion
was earned. Exactly. The emotional weight behind
his most culturally significant music didn't
come from nowhere. It came from a very real,
very painful lived experience. Following that
tragedy, the remaining family moved north to
Rochester, New York. And here's where it gets
really interesting, because Rochester is where
his musical drive goes into absolute overdrive.
He was a prodigy in a lot of ways. He gave his
first public performance at Dunbar Junior High
School in 1954. But by the time he was at Madison
High School, he was already playing professionally.
And he wasn't just playing with anyone either.
He was gigging with future jazz heavyweights.
People like Ron Carter, the legendary bassist.
Wow. And Chuck Mangione. He was immersing himself
in the absolute highest levels of local talent.
Then comes 1957. He's visiting a Broadway saxophone
repair shop, and he literally bumps into the
jazz legend, Sonny Rollins. Just a chance encounter.
And Pee Wee doesn't hesitate. He just flat out
asked him for saxophone lessons. Which is bold.
And Sonny Rollins actually agrees to it, which
is incredible in its own right. But he agrees
to teach him weekly on one specific condition.
Ellis has to fly from Rochester down to New York
City for the lessons. Wait, he has to fly? As
a teenager in 1957? Yes. And this is where we
see the sheer mathematics of his dedication.
Ellis was playing gigs at a local club in Rochester
called the Pythod Room, earning about $90 a week.
Okay, $90. The round -trip flight to New York
City was $55. Out of a $90 paycheck. He was spending
well over half of his weekly income just on the
commute. That's incredible. And that doesn't
even factor in the cost of living or paying for
the lessons themselves. That is an immense level
of sacrifice. I mean, to put that into perspective
for you listening, imagine having a part -time
job today and deciding to spend 60 % of your
paycheck on the commute to a master class every
single week. without fail it's an astonishing
logistical and financial commitment but this
rigorous expensive dedication to mastering jazz
is exactly what laid the technical foundation
for everything that followed because he wasn't
just learning how to play scales faster no not
at all and he later attended the manhattan school
of music to further hone those skills he was
learning the deep complex architecture of jazz
What does that actually mean in practice when
you say the architecture of jazz? It means he
was learning how to arrange, how to compose,
and how to structure sound across multiple instruments.
Jazz theory involves understanding complex chord
progressions, harmonies, and syncopation. Placing
rhythmic stresses where they wouldn't normally
occur. Exactly. He was building a massive toolkit
of musical knowledge. Which brings us to 1965.
Ellis moves back to Florida, works as a band
leader, and then gets an invitation from a friend,
a trumpeter named Wayman Reed. To join the James
Brown review. Right, the godfather of soul. He
joins on alto sax, eventually switching to tenor.
And because of that massive toolkit he had built,
within two years, he is James Brown's musical
director. Over their time together until 1969,
Ellis co -wrote 26 songs with Brown. And this
is the crucible where an entirely new genre is
forged. What's fascinating here is how Ellis
himself defined what happened during those years.
He explicitly stated later in life that it was
his rigorous jazz influence merging with James
Brown's raw R &B background that literally created
funk. So it was a true blending of their two
worlds. Yes. It is crucial to understand that
funk wasn't just a happy accident or a jam session
that went right. It was a deliberate musical
synthesis. Like a chemical reaction. You have
Brown's incredible rhythmic energy and gospel
R &B roots on one side. On the other side, you
have Ellis applying this sophisticated Sonny
Rollins -level jazz theory to the horn arrangements.
But he wasn't writing traditional jazz horn lines.
As far from it. In traditional big band or swing
jazz, the horns often play these long, sweeping,
melodic lines. What Ellis did was completely
deconstruct that. How so? He took the horns and
chopped the notes up. He wrote these tight, complex,
syncopated horn lines that hit hard on the beat.
So the brass section is essentially acting like
a drum kit. Precisely that concept. The saxophones
and trumpets became percussive instruments. He
brought a highly educated structural discipline
to the raw groove that James Brown was naturally
feeling. And the results were anthems that completely
redefined popular music. Ellis arranged and co
-wrote massive hits, most notably Cold Sweat
in 1967. Cold Sweat is a massive milestone. Many
musicologists consider it the first true funk
song. The very first. Yeah. It abandoned the
traditional chord changes of R &B and instead
locked into a single hypnotic groove driven by
those percussive horn stabs Ellis arranged. But
then, in 1968, they release a track that goes
far beyond just musical innovation. They release
Say It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud. A song
that absolutely shook the culture. The historical
context here is critical to understanding the
impact. The sources clearly established that
Say It Loud was intended directly as a response
to the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.
Right. The country was grieving, angry, and demanding
change. This track became a new, unadulterated
anthem for African Americans. You can hear the
resilience we talked about earlier. pouring out
of that arrangement. It's bold, it's unapologetic,
and it's structurally brilliant. Pee Wee Ellis
actually recalled the immediate visceral impact
of the song. He noted, and I quote, in two weeks,
it was like it had swept across the country.
We were doing three shows a day at the Apollo,
and people queued around the block every day
for every show. Three shows a day at the Apollo
with lines around the block. You can almost feel
the energy radiating off the pavement just thinking
about it. It wasn't just a concert. It was a
rallying cry. And that energy didn't dissipate
when the 1960s ended. We see how deeply that
specific song resonates across generations. Following
the murder of George Floyd and the subsequent
Black Lives Matter protests in 2020, Say It Loud.
gained a massive resurgence. Which brings us
back to that incredible statistic from the beginning
of our deep dive. The 15 ,740 % jump in streaming
in a single week. This raises an important question
for you as the listener to reflect on. How does
music serve as a lasting vehicle for social movements?
Why do certain arrangements, certain grooves,
endure for decades to give voice to new generations?
It has to be that perfect marriage of message
and raw, undeniable rhythm. It bypassed the intellect
and went straight to the soul. Ellis himself
reflected on those pioneer days of funk, noting
that it was a music that heralded a new attitude.
He called it a new and distinctive black culture,
a street culture, finding confidence and popularity
outside and alongside the establishment. He helped
build a house that people are still living in
today. Every time a modern hip hop producer samples
a tight James Brown horn break, they are sampling
Pee Wee Ellis's brain. Absolutely. But what I
love about him is that he didn't just stay in
that house. He refused to be categorized. Exactly.
He didn't just say, cool, I invented funk. My
work here is done. He was the ultimate genre
chameleon. By 1969, he leaves James Brown and
heads back to New York City. He becomes an arranger
and musical director for CTI Records' Kudu label.
Here, he's working with phenomenal jazz and soul
artists like George Benson, Hank Crawford, and
Esther Phillips. So he's adapting his style.
Adapting it to fit their unique voices, proving
his vast versatility as an arranger. And he just
keeps moving. In the late 1970s, he heads out
to San Francisco. He forms a band with David
Liebman. who was a former sideman for Miles Davis.
Together, they recorded a track called The Chicken.
And while it might have seemed like just another
session at the time, that specific track ended
up becoming a legendary favorite for the iconic
bassist Jaco Pistorius. Wow. It became a staple
in the jazz fusion world. It just shows how respected
Ellis was by the absolute best players in the
world. But then comes one of the most unexpected
turns in his career. The trumpeter Mark Asham
asks Ellis to perform on a track for Van Morrison.
It seems like an unlikely pairing on the surface.
The pioneer of American funk and the mystic poet
of Northern Irish soul. Ellis ends up writing
this incredibly funky arrangement for a song
called You Make Me Feel So Free. And that single
arrangement impressed Van Morrison so much that
it altered the course of both their careers.
It led directly to Ellis creating all of the
tracks on Morrison's 1979 album Into the Music.
That blows my mind. He didn't just sit in for
a session. No, he took over the sonic landscape
of the entire album. It sparked a collaboration
and touring relationship that endured for over
20 years. Ellis worked as Morrison's arranger
and musical director until 1986 and then again
from 1995. to 1999, plus dozens of guest appearances
in the years following. We have to really look
at the theme of genre fluidity here. How does
a guy who arranged Cold Sweat. seamlessly integrate
into Van Morrison's incredibly unique, soulful,
Celtic -tinged sound. It goes right back to the
Manhattan School of Music and those $55 flights
to see Sonny Rollins. Exactly. He fundamentally
understood the architecture of music, regardless
of the cultural wrapping. He didn't just force
a James Brownhorn section onto a Van Morrison
track. Right, he wasn't a one -trick pony trying
to make Van Morrison sound like the godfather
of soul. He listened to what the song needed.
He used his profound jazz background to understand
the harmony and the emotional intent of Morrison's
songwriting, and he elevated it. A master musician
serves the song, not their own ego. That adaptability
is staggering. Let's look at some of his later
triumphs, because the sheer variety across the
globe is astounding. In the late 80s, he regroups
with his old James Brown bandmates, Maceo Parker
and Fred Wesley. They form the J .B. Horns. And
instead of just playing nostalgia tours, they
define this whole new jazz funk sound. They toured
extensively across Europe, finding massive audiences
who revere their instrumental prowess. Then we
jump to 1995, and he completely shifts geographic
and musical gears again. He arranges the horns
for the Malian singer Umusangar. She's known
as the songbird of Waslu. Yes, on her album Waratan.
This is a crucial era to examine. Waslu music
is a deeply traditional West African style, known
for its strong... vocals and specific instrumentation,
like the Kamali Angoni, a type of harp. Bringing
an American funk and jazz arranger into that
mix is a bold cultural bridge. And he was doing
this on the World Circuit label, which is famous
for facilitating these incredible global collaborations.
He was working with global icons. Aside from
Umu Sengar, he collaborated with Ali Farkatur,
the legendary guitarist from Mali who blended
traditional Malian music with the blues. He also
worked with the renowned Cuban bassist Cachao,
one of the the creators of Mambo. From the Pythaud
Room in Rochester to the Apollo in Harlem to
Celtic Soul to West African traditional music
to Cuban Mambo. If we synthesize these facts,
a clear, undeniable picture emerges. Pee Wee
Ellis was a musician who saw absolutely no borders.
From 2009 to 2011, he led the Still Black, Still
Proud African tribute tours to James Brown, explicitly
linking American funk back to its African roots.
And even in his 70s, he wasn't slowing down.
In 2012, he was touring with the Ginger Baker
Jazz Confusion Quartet, playing alongside the
legendary and notoriously intense rock drummer
from Cream. He was a working musician to the
absolute end. He valued collaboration above all
else. His career is a testament to the idea that
true mastery of your craft gives you the freedom
to go anywhere and converse with anyone, musically
speaking. He wasn't interested in being put in
a box, and his legacy is a masterclass in breaking
out of them. So let's wrap up the biographical
details of this incredible life. Pee Wee Ellis
received a well -deserved honorary doctorate
from Bath Spa University in 2014, recognizing
his immense contributions to global music. His
cultural footprint even extended to cinema. He
was portrayed on the big screen by the rapper
Tariq Trotter, better known as Black Thought
from The Roots. That was in the 2014 James Brown
biopic Get On Up. A fitting tribute from a hip
hop legend to a funk pioneer. He actually spent
the last 30 years of his life residing in England,
quietly supporting local music as a patron of
the Bristol International Blues and Jazz Festival
before passing away on September 23, 2021 at
the age of 80. A monumental loss, but an enduring
catalog. So what does this all mean? We've covered
a massive expanse of history, a lot of different
genres, and the evolution of a man who changed
the sound of the 20th century. It means that
the music you enjoy today is built on a foundation
of incredibly rich, deeply layered, hidden histories.
The next time you listen to your favorite genre
-blending playlist, or you hear a sample of a
tight horn section on a modern track, Remember
Pee Wee Ellis. Remember the rigorous dedication
of a teenager flying to New York on $55 just
to learn the deep architecture of jazz. Remember
the resilience of a young man overcoming profound,
tragic racial injustice to eventually write anthems
of empowerment that still resonate globally.
And remember his radical open -mindedness, which
proved time and time again that musical boundaries
are ultimately meant to be broken. That's the
real takeaway here. It's a deeply inspiring legacy.
and one we are so glad we could explore with
you today. Which leads us to our final thought
for you to ponder, long after this deep dive
ends. We've seen how Ellis merging his rigorous
jazz training with James Brown's raw R &B created
the entirely new genre of funk, and how he later
carried that toolkit into African, Cuban, and
Celtic music. So consider the massive instantaneous
access musicians have to global sounds today
through the internet. Where anyone can collaborate
with anyone across the world in real time. What
entirely new musical genres are currently being
forged in secret right now by session players
bridging completely unrelated cultures. Keep
your ears open. Thanks for joining us and we'll
catch you on the next deep dive.