WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.040 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Have you ever been 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:05.299 listening to a piece of music, maybe you're driving, 00:00:05.459 --> 00:00:07.759 or just working at your desk and a track comes 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:09.619 on that just gets you tapping your foot? Right, 00:00:09.660 --> 00:00:11.380 yeah, or nodding your head without even realizing 00:00:11.380 --> 00:00:14.019 it. Exactly. Have you ever stopped to wonder 00:00:14.019 --> 00:00:17.500 where that exact undeniable groove actually came 00:00:17.500 --> 00:00:20.739 from? Like, who engineered that feeling? It's 00:00:20.739 --> 00:00:23.460 a great question. Today, we are taking you on 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:26.179 an exploration of a singular, truly fascinating 00:00:26.179 --> 00:00:29.100 Wikipedia article we have in front of us. Our 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:31.339 mission for this deep dive is to uncover the 00:00:31.339 --> 00:00:33.799 life of a man who literally helped invent an 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.820 entirely new genre of music. Yeah. We are talking 00:00:36.820 --> 00:00:39.740 about Alfred James Rogers, better known to the 00:00:39.740 --> 00:00:42.159 world as Pee Wee Ellis. The legendary Pee Wee 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.539 Ellis. We're going to explore how he took the 00:00:44.539 --> 00:00:48.979 highly academic intellectual rigor of jazz, smashed 00:00:48.979 --> 00:00:51.320 it together with the raw driving energy of - 00:00:51.310 --> 00:00:54.969 R &B and built the very foundation of funk music. 00:00:55.229 --> 00:00:57.130 Which is just an incredible feat on its own. 00:00:57.210 --> 00:00:59.030 And perhaps even more impressively, we'll see 00:00:59.030 --> 00:01:01.530 how he remained one of the most adaptable, sought 00:01:01.530 --> 00:01:04.230 -after chameleons in modern music history. What's 00:01:04.230 --> 00:01:06.489 fascinating here is that Ellis' life isn't just 00:01:06.489 --> 00:01:09.909 a straightforward linear musical biography. When 00:01:09.909 --> 00:01:11.510 you read through the details of this source, 00:01:11.689 --> 00:01:14.730 it becomes abundantly clear that his story is 00:01:14.730 --> 00:01:17.290 one of profound resilience. Yeah, absolutely. 00:01:17.510 --> 00:01:20.430 He navigated immense historical American tragedies. 00:01:20.750 --> 00:01:23.290 His life proves a compelling point for anyone 00:01:23.290 --> 00:01:26.349 trying to create something new. True innovation 00:01:26.349 --> 00:01:28.810 rarely happens in a vacuum. It often requires 00:01:28.810 --> 00:01:33.150 synthesizing vastly different and sometimes deeply 00:01:33.150 --> 00:01:36.510 painful life experiences. We are going to see 00:01:36.510 --> 00:01:39.390 exactly how his foundational skills allowed him 00:01:39.390 --> 00:01:42.359 to traverse the globe. jump between totally unrelated 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:46.099 genres, and fundamentally redefine what a saxophone 00:01:46.099 --> 00:01:48.019 could do within a band. Okay, let's untack this. 00:01:48.140 --> 00:01:49.939 Looking at our source, he was born Alfred James 00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:53.200 Rogers on April 21st, 1941, down in Bradenton, 00:01:53.219 --> 00:01:55.500 Florida. We learn that his biological father 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:58.620 left when he was quite young. Then in 1949, his 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:01.599 mother married a man named Ezell Ellis. And Ezell 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:03.640 wasn't just a stepfather. He was an organizer 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:05.980 of musicians for local dance bands. That's the 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:08.939 spark right there. Exactly. That is the exact 00:02:08.939 --> 00:02:11.460 moment the music enters the family bloodstream. 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.000 They eventually moved to Lubbock, Texas. And 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.919 our source notes, this was where he picked up 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:19.300 the nickname Pee Wee. Just because he was a small 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:22.000 kid? Yeah, simply because of his diminutive stature 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:24.360 as a kid. It was a nickname given to him by the 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.840 revolving door of traveling musicians who were 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:29.460 always staying at their family home. That home 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:31.900 environment in Lubbock, Texas, provides some 00:02:31.900 --> 00:02:34.919 crucial context for his early life. The source 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:38.520 specifically describes Lubbock in the 1950s as 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:42.879 a, quote, highly segregated town. And this brings 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:46.099 us to a pivotal, deeply tragic moment in Ellis's 00:02:46.099 --> 00:02:49.419 life. In 1955, when Ellis would have been around 00:02:49.419 --> 00:02:52.400 14 years old, his family experienced a horrific 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:55.000 event. Yeah. According to the strict historical 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:57.039 account provided in our source, and we're just 00:02:57.039 --> 00:02:58.879 neutrally conveying the source's facts here, 00:02:59.020 --> 00:03:01.780 a white woman insisted on dancing with his stepfather, 00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:05.039 Ezell. The source documents that this enraged 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:06.659 a white man who was watching, and he subsequently 00:03:06.659 --> 00:03:09.199 stabbed Ezell. And as the source details, the 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:11.340 tragedy unfortunately didn't end with the attack 00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:15.250 itself. No, it did not. Continuing to look strictly 00:03:15.250 --> 00:03:17.330 at the historical data provided in our source, 00:03:17.490 --> 00:03:20.370 it notes that Azel Ellis passed away because 00:03:20.370 --> 00:03:23.310 a local hospital refused to treat him, explicitly 00:03:23.310 --> 00:03:26.849 based on his race. Which is just awful to even 00:03:26.849 --> 00:03:30.669 comprehend. It is. We are conveying this event 00:03:30.669 --> 00:03:33.569 exactly as it is documented in our source material 00:03:33.569 --> 00:03:36.509 to provide the necessary historical context of 00:03:36.509 --> 00:03:40.330 Ellis' life. The sheer injustice of this systemic 00:03:40.330 --> 00:03:43.360 racism. and the personal loss of the man who 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:45.479 literally brought music organization into his 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:48.319 family, it fundamentally altered the trajectory 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:51.020 of Ellis' world. It was the catalyst for the 00:03:51.020 --> 00:03:53.520 remaining members of the family to leave Texas 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.500 entirely. They moved north to Rochester, New 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:58.879 York, which really set the stage for the next 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:00.840 phase of his life. Right, and that move to Rochester 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:02.900 is where the musical spark really catches fire 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:06.090 for him. By 1954, he's giving his first public 00:04:06.090 --> 00:04:08.449 performance at Dunbar Junior High School. Getting 00:04:08.449 --> 00:04:10.229 his feet wet. Yeah, and while he's at Madison 00:04:10.229 --> 00:04:11.770 High School, he isn't just playing the marching 00:04:11.770 --> 00:04:13.469 band. He's already playing professionally with 00:04:13.469 --> 00:04:16.129 future jazz heavyweights like bassist Ron Carter 00:04:16.129 --> 00:04:18.949 and flugelhorn player Chuck Mangione. That's 00:04:18.949 --> 00:04:21.160 a serious peer group for a high schooler. Totally. 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:23.379 But there is an anecdote in this source that 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:27.980 I just kept rereading. It's 1957. Ellis is visiting 00:04:27.980 --> 00:04:30.480 a saxophone repair shop on Broadway in New York 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.000 City. Okay. And he just happens to bump into 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.819 the absolute jazz legend Sonny Rollins. Wow. 00:04:35.980 --> 00:04:39.279 And this high schooler boldly walks up and asks 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.240 Rollins for saxophone lessons. It's a bold move 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.180 that pays off because Rollins actually agrees 00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:48.550 to teach him. But there's a significant logistical 00:04:48.550 --> 00:04:51.170 catch here. Oh, yeah. Rollins agrees to teach 00:04:51.170 --> 00:04:53.490 him weekly. Which meant this teenager had to 00:04:53.490 --> 00:04:55.889 physically get himself to New York City from 00:04:55.889 --> 00:04:58.709 Rochester every single week. And I want you, 00:04:58.769 --> 00:05:00.870 the listener, to really put yourself in this 00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:03.089 teenager's shoes for a second to understand the 00:05:03.089 --> 00:05:05.850 sheer dedication here. The source breaks down 00:05:05.850 --> 00:05:08.490 the math, and it is wild. It really is. Ellis 00:05:08.490 --> 00:05:11.310 was earning $90 a week playing at a local Rochester 00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:13.889 club called the Pythod Room. The round -trip 00:05:13.889 --> 00:05:18.850 flight to New York City cost $55. $55. Yes. He 00:05:18.850 --> 00:05:22.569 voluntarily chose to spend $55 out of his $90 00:05:22.569 --> 00:05:26.089 paycheck every single week just to get this hour 00:05:26.089 --> 00:05:28.610 of instruction from a master. Think about your 00:05:28.610 --> 00:05:30.850 own paycheck right now. Right. Imagine making, 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:34.110 say, $1 ,000 a week today and happily dropping 00:05:34.110 --> 00:05:37.410 over $600 of it on a flight every single week 00:05:37.410 --> 00:05:39.870 just to invest in your own professional skills. 00:05:40.230 --> 00:05:42.970 The source notes he simply decided it was worth 00:05:42.970 --> 00:05:45.500 the investment. It is an astonishing level of 00:05:45.500 --> 00:05:48.199 commitment. It speaks to a deep, insatiable hunger 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:50.540 for mastery. He didn't just stop at those private 00:05:50.540 --> 00:05:52.620 lessons either. He went on to attend the Manhattan 00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:55.800 School of Music to formally hone those jazz skills. 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.660 And formal training is key here. Exactly. It's 00:05:58.660 --> 00:06:00.519 worth pausing to understand what formal jazz 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.259 training actually means in this context. It's 00:06:03.259 --> 00:06:06.420 not just learning to play fast. It is rigorous 00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:10.399 academic study. It's learning complex chord progressions, 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.220 sight reading intricate arrangements, and understanding 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.800 the deep mathematical theory behind harmony the 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.060 underlying mechanics precisely this academic 00:06:19.060 --> 00:06:21.839 foundation became the secret weapon that ellis 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.459 would later deploy to completely revolutionize 00:06:24.459 --> 00:06:28.100 other seemingly unrelated genres he was building 00:06:28.100 --> 00:06:31.720 an unbreakable mechanical foundation By 1960, 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.759 he moves back to Florida, working as a band leader, 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:37.959 musical director, and writer. Getting those crucial 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:41.220 real -world repetitions in leading other musicians. 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:43.800 Exactly. Here's where it gets really interesting. 00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:48.120 We jump forward to 1965. Ellis gets an invitation 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:50.459 from a friend, a trumpeter named Wayman Reed, 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:53.439 to join the James Brown Review. The hardest -working 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.269 man in show business. Yes. Now, he initially 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:58.769 joins up playing the alto sax. For those who 00:06:58.769 --> 00:07:01.250 might not know, the alto sax has a slightly higher, 00:07:01.370 --> 00:07:03.910 brighter sound. But he eventually switches to 00:07:03.910 --> 00:07:06.509 the tenor sax, which is larger, lower, and gives 00:07:06.509 --> 00:07:10.089 you that gritty, honking sound that is so synonymous 00:07:10.089 --> 00:07:12.709 with classic R &B. And within just two years 00:07:12.709 --> 00:07:15.290 of joining, he becomes James Brown's musical 00:07:15.290 --> 00:07:17.350 director. That's a massive leap. But wait, hold 00:07:17.350 --> 00:07:19.449 on. Let's think about this. Ellis is in his mid 00:07:19.449 --> 00:07:21.990 -20s at this point. James Brown is notorious 00:07:21.990 --> 00:07:24.889 historically for being an absolute taskmaster. 00:07:25.149 --> 00:07:27.410 Oh, absolutely. He was known to find musicians 00:07:27.410 --> 00:07:30.069 on the spot for missing a cue or hitting a wrong 00:07:30.069 --> 00:07:33.509 note. How does a 26 -year -old step into that 00:07:33.509 --> 00:07:35.829 kind of extreme pressure cooker and become the 00:07:35.829 --> 00:07:38.790 boss of the band? It all comes back to that $55 00:07:38.790 --> 00:07:42.029 flight. He could handle the pressure cooker because 00:07:42.029 --> 00:07:44.860 his technical competence was absolute. James 00:07:44.860 --> 00:07:46.920 Brown was a genius of rhythm and showmanship, 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:50.100 but he often communicated his musical ideas in 00:07:50.100 --> 00:07:52.899 feelings, grunts, or rhythmic vocalizations. 00:07:53.060 --> 00:07:55.319 Right, he wasn't writing sheet music. No, not 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.259 at all. Ellis was the translator. Because of 00:07:58.259 --> 00:08:00.519 his rigorous Manhattan School of Music background, 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.500 Ellis could listen to the raw, visceral ideas 00:08:03.500 --> 00:08:06.240 James Brown was humming and immediately write 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.120 out the exact sheet music for a five -piece horn 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.139 section so they could play it perfectly. Wow. 00:08:11.420 --> 00:08:14.160 And this is exactly the dynamic where a new genre 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.540 is born. In a 2015 quote from our source, Ellis 00:08:17.540 --> 00:08:19.939 explained this merging. He said that his, quote, 00:08:20.019 --> 00:08:23.300 jazz influence merged with Brown's R &B background 00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:26.160 to create funk. So mechanically speaking, for 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:27.860 the listener who is trying to picture this, how 00:08:27.860 --> 00:08:30.180 exactly do those two things combine to invent 00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:32.500 funk? What is the actual recipe there? Think 00:08:32.500 --> 00:08:34.480 of it like a collision of two different philosophies. 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:38.539 Early 60s R &B is driving and emotional, but 00:08:38.539 --> 00:08:40.539 it's relatively straightforward harmonically. 00:08:41.259 --> 00:08:44.500 Jazz is incredibly complex, with horns often 00:08:44.500 --> 00:08:47.779 wandering off into long, independent solos. Okay, 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.679 I follow you. When we talk about funk, we have 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.220 to talk about the rhythmic pocket. Imagine a 00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:55.980 groove so tight and repetitive that it acts like 00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:58.980 a locked grid. James Brown's rhythm section, 00:08:59.179 --> 00:09:01.879 the bass and the drums were locking into this 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.019 incredibly rigid, heavy, repetitive grid. Always 00:09:05.019 --> 00:09:08.019 emphasizing the downbeat. Right, always emphasizing 00:09:08.019 --> 00:09:10.860 the one. Ellis took the sophisticated, highly 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:12.700 intellectual horn arrangements he learned from 00:09:12.700 --> 00:09:15.200 jazz. But instead of letting them wander, he 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.480 forced them to march perfectly in step within 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:20.080 James Brown's locked in rhythmic grid. He used 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:21.519 the horns almost like percussion instruments. 00:09:21.940 --> 00:09:25.549 Exactly. By snapping complex jazz harmony into 00:09:25.549 --> 00:09:28.509 a heavy, repetitive R &B pocket, they engineered 00:09:28.509 --> 00:09:31.210 a totally new, globally dominant sound. That 00:09:31.210 --> 00:09:32.629 makes so much sense when you hear it explained 00:09:32.629 --> 00:09:34.710 that way. The horns aren't just melody anymore, 00:09:34.830 --> 00:09:37.909 they are part of the drum kit. And the output 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:40.289 of this collaboration was massive. He worked 00:09:40.289 --> 00:09:42.909 with Brown until 1969, and in that relatively 00:09:42.909 --> 00:09:46.169 short window, he co -wrote 26 songs with him. 00:09:46.539 --> 00:09:49.159 We are talking about absolute foundational anthems 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:52.000 of modern music. Game changer. He co -wrote and 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:55.100 arranged the 1967 hit Cold Sweat, which many 00:09:55.100 --> 00:09:57.340 musicologists and fans consider the first true 00:09:57.340 --> 00:10:00.940 undisputed funk song. And then in 1968, he co 00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:03.500 -wrote and arranged Say It Loud, I'm Black and 00:10:03.500 --> 00:10:06.450 I'm Proud. And that song wasn't just a hit, it 00:10:06.450 --> 00:10:08.990 was a cultural earthquake. Our source provides 00:10:08.990 --> 00:10:11.590 essential historical context here, noting that 00:10:11.590 --> 00:10:13.769 Say It Loud was intended as a direct response 00:10:13.769 --> 00:10:15.690 to the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. 00:10:16.029 --> 00:10:18.409 Again, we are impartially conveying the context 00:10:18.409 --> 00:10:21.129 exactly as it is presented in our source. In 00:10:21.129 --> 00:10:22.990 the wake of that tragedy, the song quickly became 00:10:22.990 --> 00:10:25.330 a unifying anthem for African Americans across 00:10:25.330 --> 00:10:27.940 the country. Ellis himself gave a quote to London 00:10:27.940 --> 00:10:30.700 Independent in 2020 about the immediate visceral 00:10:30.700 --> 00:10:33.100 reaction to that song upon its release. He said, 00:10:33.179 --> 00:10:35.259 in two weeks, it was like it had swept across 00:10:35.259 --> 00:10:37.120 the country. We were doing three shows a day 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:38.919 at the Apollo and people queued around the block 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.240 every day for every show. You could almost feel 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:43.659 the sheer electricity in that statement. It wasn't 00:10:43.659 --> 00:10:46.590 just a popular song. It was a movement. The cultural 00:10:46.590 --> 00:10:48.750 resonance of that piece of music is staggering, 00:10:48.970 --> 00:10:51.529 and its relevance hasn't faded over the decades. 00:10:51.830 --> 00:10:54.549 Our source provides a really striking data point 00:10:54.549 --> 00:10:57.409 regarding its enduring impact. Yeah, this part 00:10:57.409 --> 00:11:00.129 is amazing. Looking strictly at the numbers presented 00:11:00.129 --> 00:11:02.210 in the source without taking any political stance 00:11:02.210 --> 00:11:04.690 ourselves, it notes that following the murder 00:11:04.690 --> 00:11:07.029 of George Floyd and the subsequent Black Lives 00:11:07.029 --> 00:11:10.789 Matter protests in 2020, this 1968 anthem saw 00:11:10.789 --> 00:11:14.389 a massive resurgence. The source states there 00:11:14.389 --> 00:11:18.509 was a 15 ,740 % jump in the streaming of Say 00:11:18.509 --> 00:11:23.149 It Loud in a single week. A 15 ,740 % jump. That 00:11:23.149 --> 00:11:25.710 is an unbelievable metric. It really is. It really 00:11:25.710 --> 00:11:27.370 proves that when you engineer a piece of art 00:11:27.370 --> 00:11:29.710 that taps into a deep, universal feeling, it 00:11:29.710 --> 00:11:32.470 doesn't age out of relevance. It just waits in 00:11:32.470 --> 00:11:35.029 the cultural DNA for the exact moment the world 00:11:35.029 --> 00:11:37.889 needs it again. Precisely. And to summarize the 00:11:37.889 --> 00:11:40.529 broader impact of this era, we can look at what 00:11:40.529 --> 00:11:44.029 Ellis told JazzWise magazine in 2020. He articulated 00:11:44.029 --> 00:11:46.889 that funk was a music that, quote, heralded a 00:11:46.889 --> 00:11:49.970 new attitude, a new and distinctive black culture, 00:11:50.049 --> 00:11:52.669 a street culture finding confidence and popularity 00:11:52.669 --> 00:11:55.759 outside and alongside the establishment. He wasn't 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:57.840 just writing notes on a page or arranging horn 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.539 blasts. He was actively scoring a major cultural 00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:02.700 shift in America. Absolutely. But he didn't stop 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:04.220 there. And honestly, this is the part of the 00:12:04.220 --> 00:12:06.980 deep dive that really blew my mind. By 1969, 00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:10.519 he leaves James Brown. He returns to New York 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:12.879 City and starts working as an arranger and musical 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:16.200 director for CTI Records' Kudu label. Now he's 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:18.779 collaborating with jazz, soul, and pop artists 00:12:18.779 --> 00:12:21.320 like George Benson and Esther Phillips. Then 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:23.200 in the late 70s, he moves all the way across 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:25.419 the country to San Francisco. Keeping it moving. 00:12:25.580 --> 00:12:28.580 He forms a band with saxophonist David Liebman, 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.080 who used to play with Miles Davis, and records 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.580 a track called The Chicken, which, by the way, 00:12:33.580 --> 00:12:35.700 goes on to become an absolute staple for the 00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:39.059 legendary jazz bassist Jaco Pistorius. He is 00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:41.860 just constantly moving, constantly collaborating, 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:44.600 never resting on his laurels as the inventor 00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:47.799 of funk. He truly is the ultimate musical chameleon, 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:50.639 and the next major chapter of his career illustrates 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.889 this adaptability perfectly. It starts somewhat 00:12:53.889 --> 00:12:56.610 randomly when a trumpeter named Mark Asham asks 00:12:56.610 --> 00:12:59.289 Ellis to perform on a track for Van Morrison. 00:12:59.490 --> 00:13:01.669 But honestly, how does that work? You have a 00:13:01.669 --> 00:13:04.350 guy who literally built the aggressive, driving, 00:13:04.549 --> 00:13:07.210 incredibly tight sound of American funk. Yeah. 00:13:07.289 --> 00:13:09.889 How does he step into an Irish folk rock and 00:13:09.889 --> 00:13:11.889 soul band without completely overpowering the 00:13:11.889 --> 00:13:14.129 music? It seems like a massive mismatch on paper. 00:13:14.350 --> 00:13:16.169 It does seem like a mismatch until you look at 00:13:16.169 --> 00:13:18.529 the underlying mechanics. Ellis writes a funky 00:13:18.529 --> 00:13:20.710 arrangement for a Van Morrison song called You 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:23.519 Make Me Feel So Free. Morrison hears it, and 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:25.940 he's so completely blown away that Ellis ends 00:13:25.940 --> 00:13:27.860 up being involved in creating all of the horn 00:13:27.860 --> 00:13:31.259 tracks for Morrison's 1979 album into the music. 00:13:31.460 --> 00:13:33.139 That's incredible. To answer your question about 00:13:33.139 --> 00:13:35.779 how it works, it comes back to the idea of the 00:13:35.779 --> 00:13:39.620 piet and repetition. Van Morrison's music, often 00:13:39.620 --> 00:13:43.299 described as Celtic soul, relies heavily on hypnotic, 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:46.460 spiritual repetition and deep, simmering grooves. 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:50.360 Ah, I see. Ellis understood groove at a molecular 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:52.850 level. He didn't come in and try to turn Van 00:13:52.850 --> 00:13:55.809 Morrison into James Brown. He used his deep musical 00:13:55.809 --> 00:13:58.129 vocabulary to find the specific groove within 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:00.909 Morrison's folk rock framework, and he elevated 00:14:00.909 --> 00:14:02.809 it. That makes a lot of sense. He's applying 00:14:02.809 --> 00:14:05.149 the tool, not just repeating the exact same trick. 00:14:05.330 --> 00:14:07.769 And this wasn't just a brief one -off studio 00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:10.070 experiment. No, not at all. This association 00:14:10.070 --> 00:14:13.429 endured for 20 years. He recorded another dozen 00:14:13.429 --> 00:14:15.850 albums with Morrison, working as his arranger 00:14:15.850 --> 00:14:19.029 and musical director until 1986, and then again 00:14:19.029 --> 00:14:21.970 from 1995 through... 1999 with numerous guest 00:14:21.970 --> 00:14:24.450 appearances throughout the 2000s a huge catalog 00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:27.139 Our source highlights a specific DVD release, 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.059 the 2006 Live at Monterey, where Ellis is featured 00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:32.759 prominently taking solos and standing out as 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.000 what the source specifically describes as the 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.840 twin brother to Morrison's vocals. That twin 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.700 brother description in the source is so evocative 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:43.460 because it highlights his restraint and active 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:45.840 listening. It means he wasn't just backing Morrison 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.179 up and he wasn't overpowering him. He was having 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:51.080 a real time equal musical conversation with him. 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:53.340 Exactly. He was matching the emotional intensity 00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:56.279 of Morrison's vocal energy with his saxophone 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:59.879 phrasing. And remarkably, even while he's maintaining 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:02.259 this massive commitment to Van Morrison, his 00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:04.700 global collaborations just keep expanding. The 00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:07.000 sheer diversity of his light career is almost 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:10.259 dizzying to read through. In the late 80s, he 00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:12.759 reunites with his old James Brown bandmates, 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:16.039 Fred Wesley and Maceo Parker, to form the JB 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.860 Horns. Essentially defining a new, refined version 00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:21.590 of jazz funk. Right. But then he goes... Totally 00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:24.289 global. Yes. In 1995, he expands deeply into 00:15:24.289 --> 00:15:26.809 world music. He plays tenor sax and arranges 00:15:26.809 --> 00:15:29.309 the horns for an album called Wurrutan by the 00:15:29.309 --> 00:15:32.370 Malian singer Umu Sangar, who is internationally 00:15:32.370 --> 00:15:35.389 known as the songbird of Wasulu. Wow. He also 00:15:35.389 --> 00:15:37.269 works with renowned artists on the world circuit 00:15:37.269 --> 00:15:40.009 label, like the Cuban bassist Cachao and the 00:15:40.009 --> 00:15:42.730 Senegalese musician Chiclo. I have to ask again, 00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:48.190 though. Malian Wasulu music. Cuban jazz. Senegalese 00:15:48.190 --> 00:15:51.629 pop. How is he jumping into these entirely different 00:15:51.629 --> 00:15:54.210 cultural traditions and arranging their horns? 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:56.629 It goes right back to the mathematics of rhythm. 00:15:56.889 --> 00:15:59.850 Much of West African music, like Oumu Sangars, 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:03.169 is built on incredibly complex polyrhythms, multiple 00:16:03.169 --> 00:16:05.450 different rhythms playing simultaneously. Right. 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:08.559 If you strip away the genre labels... The mathematical 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.500 foundation of those African polyrhythms is actually 00:16:11.500 --> 00:16:14.580 incredibly compatible with the rigid syncopated 00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:17.039 funk grid P .B. Ellis helped invent. Oh, wow. 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:18.820 Because he understood the universal language 00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:21.159 of rhythm and harmony so intimately, he could 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.600 step into a studio with Malian musicians, find 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:25.600 the pulse of their tradition, and write horn 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:27.480 lines that perfectly complemented their native 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:29.679 sound without making it sound like an American 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.139 funk ripoff. He even toured with Ginger Baker. 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:34.720 The legendary explosive drummer from the rock 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:38.000 band Cream. From 2012, he's touring with the 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.179 Ginger Baker jazz confusion. And between 2009 00:16:41.179 --> 00:16:44.259 and 2011, he toured a project called Still Black, 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:47.539 Still Proud across the U .S. and Europe. It was 00:16:47.539 --> 00:16:50.100 an African tribute to James Brown, bringing in 00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.539 African artists to reinterpret the very music 00:16:52.539 --> 00:16:55.159 Ellis had written decades earlier. The man simply 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.399 never stopped exploring the edges of his craft. 00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:00.610 He built a lasting, undeniable, and deeply varied 00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:03.190 cultural footprint. He actually spent the last 00:17:03.190 --> 00:17:05.349 30 years of his life residing in England. Did 00:17:05.349 --> 00:17:08.430 not know that. In 2014, his massive cross -genre 00:17:08.430 --> 00:17:10.769 contributions were formally recognized when he 00:17:10.769 --> 00:17:12.849 received an honorary doctorate from Bath Spa 00:17:12.849 --> 00:17:15.430 University. He even crossed over into mainstream 00:17:15.430 --> 00:17:18.190 cinema, being portrayed by the rapper Black Thought, 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:20.529 credited under his real name, Tariq Trotter, 00:17:20.609 --> 00:17:24.019 in the 2014 James Brown biopic, Get On Up. That's 00:17:24.019 --> 00:17:26.380 so cool. He continued to perform, arrange, and 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:28.539 teach until his passing on September 23, 2021, 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.859 at the age of 80. What a monumental life. Honestly, 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:33.460 just reading through the discography section 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:36.259 in this Wikipedia article is like taking a master 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:39.440 class in 20th and 21st century music evolution. 00:17:39.579 --> 00:17:41.960 You see the connective tissue between almost 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.680 every major genre. It really is a master class. 00:17:44.980 --> 00:17:47.140 And I think there is a viable, highly actionable 00:17:47.140 --> 00:17:50.119 lesson here for you, the listener. What Pee Wee 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.559 Ellis demonstrates so perfectly is that true 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:58.259 deep mastery of a core skill allows you to adapt 00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:01.200 seamlessly into absolutely any environment. Yeah, 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:04.000 that core competency. Because he invested so 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.619 heavily in his foundational knowledge. Remember 00:18:06.619 --> 00:18:09.299 that teenager spending a $55 flight out of a 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:12.819 $90 paycheck to learn jazz theory? He understood 00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:15.460 the deep underlying mechanics of his craft. Right. 00:18:15.579 --> 00:18:17.839 That core competency meant he wasn't faking it 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:19.680 when he stepped onto a stage with an American 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.759 Soul Review or an Irish rock band or a Malian 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.519 World music ensemble. He spoke the underlying 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.539 structural language of music so... that he could 00:18:28.539 --> 00:18:31.220 effortlessly translate it into any cultural dialect. 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:33.880 So what does this all mean? When we look back 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.420 at the entire sweep of this deep dive, we see 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:38.559 a story that begins with a young boy born in 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:41.299 Florida who faces the brutal systemic reality 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:45.220 of a segregated Texas town and the profound senseless 00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:47.900 tragedy of losing his stepfather to racial violence. 00:18:48.380 --> 00:18:51.559 Yet from that crucible and through a necessary 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:54.039 move to New York, he channels his drive into 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.680 an unyielding pursuit of education and mastery. 00:18:57.420 --> 00:18:59.940 He takes the incredibly complex academic jazz 00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:01.759 he learned from Sonny Rollins and the Manhattan 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:04.660 School of Music, and he collides it head on with 00:19:04.660 --> 00:19:08.730 the visceral, soulful R &B of James Brown. A 00:19:08.730 --> 00:19:11.369 perfect collision. In doing so, Pee Wee Ellis 00:19:11.369 --> 00:19:13.990 becomes the undisputed pioneer of funk engineering, 00:19:14.309 --> 00:19:16.430 a global art form that changed the rhythm of 00:19:16.430 --> 00:19:18.529 popular music forever. And then instead of just 00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:20.230 resting on his laurels and playing his old hits, 00:19:20.309 --> 00:19:22.230 he spends the next five decades proving that 00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:25.049 true expertise has no borders, lending his genius 00:19:25.049 --> 00:19:27.650 to everyone from Ben Morrison to Umu Sungar. 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:30.380 It is a powerful testament to the fact that knowledge 00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:33.339 and skill are most valuable when they're applied 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:36.779 across established boundaries. Ellis fundamentally 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:40.039 refused to stay confined to a single lane. He 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.339 didn't just rigidly label himself a jazz musician 00:19:42.339 --> 00:19:44.279 or a funk arranger and close the door on everything 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.460 else. He let his natural curiosity lead him, 00:19:47.539 --> 00:19:50.799 and his deep, hard -won expertise allowed him 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:52.660 to contribute meaningfully and authentically 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:55.960 wherever he went. If we connect this to the bigger 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:58.240 picture, It leaves us with something really important 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:00.980 to reflect on. Okay, let's hear it. Pee Wee Ellis 00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:04.500 literally invented a new genre by refusing to 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:07.259 choose between the jazz he formally studied and 00:20:07.259 --> 00:20:10.240 the R &B he naturally played. He smashed them 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.880 together to see what would happen. So think about 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:14.980 your own life for a moment. But two seemingly 00:20:14.980 --> 00:20:17.140 unrelated genres of your own life, maybe it's 00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:19.099 your specific technical skills, your random weekend 00:20:19.099 --> 00:20:21.400 hobbies, or your totally unique professional 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.640 backgrounds are just waiting for you to smash 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:25.740 them together to create something the world has 00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:28.019 never seen before. That is an incredible thought 00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:30.180 to leave on. It's all about finding the funk 00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:33.099 in your own unique mix of experiences. Thank 00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:35.160 you so much for joining us on this deep dive 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.880 into the extraordinary genre -defying life of 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.000 Pee Wee Ellis. We hope it brought you some real 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.619 aha moments and a whole new appreciation for 00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:44.440 the mechanics behind the music you listen to 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:47.019 every day. Keep learning, keep smashing their 00:20:47.019 --> 00:20:49.680 genres together, and most importantly, stay curious.