WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.100 Welcome to the deep dive. I am absolutely thrilled 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:04.660 you're with us today. Yeah, this is a really 00:00:04.660 --> 00:00:08.089 fun one It is, because today we are looking at 00:00:08.089 --> 00:00:11.869 an incredible case of musical cross -pollination. 00:00:12.230 --> 00:00:14.570 Really blending genres here. Exactly. I want 00:00:14.570 --> 00:00:17.890 you to imagine taking the DNA of alternative 00:00:17.890 --> 00:00:21.969 rock, right? And then you inject the heavy, downtuned 00:00:21.969 --> 00:00:25.390 groove of veteran heavy metal. OK. You sprinkle 00:00:25.390 --> 00:00:28.050 in the chaotic speed of old school punk, and 00:00:28.050 --> 00:00:31.030 then, just for a completely unexpected twist. 00:00:31.190 --> 00:00:33.770 The wildest part. Right. You add a former drummer 00:00:33.770 --> 00:00:37.070 for a rush pop duo. It sounds made up. It does. 00:00:37.210 --> 00:00:38.850 You put all of that into a blender in the middle 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:41.329 of Los Angeles and you get a band called Against 00:00:41.329 --> 00:00:45.149 All Will. which sounds like an absolute logistical 00:00:45.149 --> 00:00:47.530 nightmare on paper. Yeah, a total mess. But in 00:00:47.530 --> 00:00:49.770 the music industry, bringing together artists 00:00:49.770 --> 00:00:53.130 from wildly disparate genres is often, you know, 00:00:53.210 --> 00:00:54.509 it's the only way to cut through the static. 00:00:54.689 --> 00:00:56.890 Right. The story of Against All Will, who formed 00:00:56.890 --> 00:01:00.090 in LA back in 2007, it really isn't just a story 00:01:00.090 --> 00:01:02.549 about music. It operates as a brilliant case 00:01:02.549 --> 00:01:05.250 study in the fluidity of the modern music industry. 00:01:05.890 --> 00:01:08.549 100%. That's the mission for today. We are looking 00:01:08.549 --> 00:01:11.629 at a masterclass in shifting lineups. The intensely 00:01:11.629 --> 00:01:14.430 collaborative nature of rock. And how modern 00:01:14.430 --> 00:01:16.769 bands function much more like startup companies. 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:19.790 Yes. Where the personnel just evolves based on 00:01:19.790 --> 00:01:22.010 exactly what the project needs at any given quarter. 00:01:22.150 --> 00:01:24.590 It's all about adaptability. Okay, let's unpack 00:01:24.590 --> 00:01:27.329 this. Because to understand the mechanics of 00:01:27.329 --> 00:01:29.890 this particular startup, we have to start with 00:01:29.890 --> 00:01:32.430 the founder and lead guitarist, Jimmy Allen. 00:01:32.750 --> 00:01:35.959 A huge meme. Massive. If you were anywhere near 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:39.000 a radio in the early 2000s, you have heard his 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.579 work. Jimmy Allen was the former co -founding 00:01:41.579 --> 00:01:43.920 lead guitarist of the massive rock band Puddle 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.519 of Mud. So we're dealing with a known quantity 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.120 here. Definitely. This isn't a newcomer scraping 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.439 by playing empty clubs on the Sunset Strip trying 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.900 to get noticed by an A &R rep. We're talking 00:01:53.900 --> 00:01:56.939 about an actual architect of the post -grunge 00:01:56.939 --> 00:01:59.439 explosion. Completely. And the accolades attached 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:01.620 to his name are just staggering. Jimmy Allen 00:02:01.620 --> 00:02:04.299 is an ASCAP award -winning songwriter. Which 00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:08.150 is a huge deal. Right. And to put that into perspective 00:02:08.150 --> 00:02:11.050 for you, winning an ASCAP Song of the Year means 00:02:11.050 --> 00:02:14.370 that out of all the millions of tracks registered 00:02:14.370 --> 00:02:17.819 for performance royalties, Your song was the 00:02:17.819 --> 00:02:20.620 undeniable king of the airwaves. Dominating the 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:23.199 charts. He did that with the song Blurry. Oh, 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:25.439 I remember that one. Everywhere. Everywhere. 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.159 It won the ASCAP 2003 Song of the Year. It was 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:31.340 the most performed song of 2002, and it won the 00:02:31.340 --> 00:02:33.659 Billboard Rock Song of the Year. Incredible run. 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.379 And then he followed that up by winning the ASCAP 00:02:36.379 --> 00:02:38.960 most performed song of 2004 for another massive 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:42.300 hit, She Hates Me. That level of cultural saturation 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:45.560 is incredibly rare. Yeah. I mean, millions of 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:49.500 r - plays, MTV dominance, total mainstream crossover. 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:51.819 It is rare, and it's even more fascinating when 00:02:51.819 --> 00:02:53.479 you look at his roots, because he didn't grow 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:55.400 up in the Hollywood machine. Right. He actually 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:57.599 spent a majority of his childhood in Chanute, 00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:59.740 Kansas. A bit of a change of scenery. Just a 00:02:59.740 --> 00:03:01.900 bit. He's an alum of Chanute High School, so 00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:04.460 he goes from a small town in the Midwest to standing 00:03:04.460 --> 00:03:07.020 at the absolute summit of the global music scene. 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:10.590 Which makes his next move so baffling. Yes. He 00:03:10.590 --> 00:03:13.009 reaches the peak, and instead of just riding 00:03:13.009 --> 00:03:15.789 that way forever, he steps away. He just leaves. 00:03:16.090 --> 00:03:18.449 He spends years writing for other independent 00:03:18.449 --> 00:03:22.250 projects and bands, and then in 2007, he decides 00:03:22.250 --> 00:03:24.870 to start completely from scratch with Against 00:03:24.870 --> 00:03:29.240 All Will. To me, that speaks to an unquenchable, 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:32.960 relentless need to just create art, rather than 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:35.219 just manage a legacy. I'd actually push back 00:03:35.219 --> 00:03:37.139 on that slightly. Okay, tell him. It could be 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:39.539 a pure, relentless need to create, sure. But 00:03:39.539 --> 00:03:41.560 let's also look at the industry landscape at 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:44.659 that time. 2007. Right. The mid -2000s rock butter 00:03:44.659 --> 00:03:48.300 was bursting. The massive multi -platinum post 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:51.060 -grunge era was giving way to completely different 00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:52.780 sounds. That's true. The scene was shifting. 00:03:53.060 --> 00:03:54.759 So stepping away from a legacy act might have 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:57.240 also been a highly calculated survival tactic. 00:03:57.819 --> 00:04:00.139 If you feel a genre shifting, you don't want 00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:01.939 to go down with the ship. Good point. Starting 00:04:01.939 --> 00:04:05.020 from absolute zero with unknown players allows 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:07.319 you to build a new vehicle without the baggage 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:09.979 or the rigid sonic expectations of your previous 00:04:09.979 --> 00:04:12.280 band. That is a really sharp way to look at it. 00:04:12.419 --> 00:04:15.879 A strategic reset. Which brings us to early 2007, 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:18.100 when Alan is putting together the pieces for 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:21.620 this new vehicle. And the origin story of how 00:04:21.620 --> 00:04:24.620 he found his singer, it reads straight out of 00:04:24.620 --> 00:04:27.160 a Hollywood noir film. It really does. Alan had 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:29.500 these demo tracks ready to go, and he needed 00:04:29.500 --> 00:04:32.860 vocals. So his drummer at the time, Mark Moke 00:04:32.860 --> 00:04:36.019 Bistini, makes a phone call. Moke was heavily 00:04:36.019 --> 00:04:39.250 connected. Very. Moke had toured with Alan in 00:04:39.250 --> 00:04:41.170 Puddle of Mud and had played with heavy -hitting 00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:45.189 bands like Otep, Cellophane, and Head P .E. So 00:04:45.189 --> 00:04:47.589 he reaches out to a singer named Mizzy Pacheco. 00:04:47.829 --> 00:04:49.550 And the atmospheric setting for this connection 00:04:49.550 --> 00:04:52.490 is so perfectly LA. It paints quite the picture. 00:04:52.610 --> 00:04:54.709 It is a stormy night in Hollywood. Of course 00:04:54.709 --> 00:04:57.170 it is. Mizzy Pacheco had recently departed as 00:04:57.170 --> 00:04:59.689 a solo artist from Virgin Records. A tough spot 00:04:59.689 --> 00:05:02.850 to be in. Right. He's sitting in a dark and lonely 00:05:02.850 --> 00:05:05.610 part of Hollywood, working on a new solo record. 00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:08.290 And right then, the phone rings. Perfect timing. 00:05:08.490 --> 00:05:11.550 It's Moke Bistini, asking Mizzy to come cut some 00:05:11.550 --> 00:05:14.029 vocals on Jimmy Allen's demos. It's very cinematic. 00:05:14.029 --> 00:05:16.089 But practically speaking, this pairing worked 00:05:16.089 --> 00:05:17.850 because it wasn't a cold call. Right. They knew 00:05:17.850 --> 00:05:21.410 each other. Exactly. Moke and Mizzy were longtime 00:05:21.410 --> 00:05:24.209 friends in the LA scene. They were drawn together 00:05:24.209 --> 00:05:26.370 by their shared East Coast roots. That shared 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:29.290 background matters. It does. In a city like Los 00:05:29.290 --> 00:05:32.509 Angeles, which can often feel incredibly transient 00:05:32.509 --> 00:05:35.470 and transactional, finding someone you implicitly 00:05:35.470 --> 00:05:38.389 trust is half the battle. They had a pre -existing 00:05:38.389 --> 00:05:40.709 foundation. Here's where it gets really interesting, 00:05:41.250 --> 00:05:43.970 because Moke and Mizzy were just the genesis. 00:05:44.009 --> 00:05:46.709 The starting point. The rhythm section that eventually 00:05:46.709 --> 00:05:50.430 forms the 2009 debut album lineup is where that 00:05:50.430 --> 00:05:52.910 musical blender really gets turned on top speed. 00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:55.050 Oh yeah, the lineup gets wild here. They bring 00:05:55.050 --> 00:05:58.509 in a guy named Cello Dias on bass. Now, Cello 00:05:58.509 --> 00:06:01.850 isn't your standard... radio rock session player. 00:06:02.009 --> 00:06:04.610 He is the former bass player for the veteran 00:06:04.610 --> 00:06:07.430 heavy metal band Soulfly. Which completely changes 00:06:07.430 --> 00:06:09.810 the architectural foundation of the music. Completely. 00:06:10.089 --> 00:06:12.089 When you bring in a bassist from a groove metal 00:06:12.089 --> 00:06:14.949 band like Soulfly, they aren't just playing simple 00:06:14.949 --> 00:06:17.129 root notes to support a melody. They are bringing 00:06:17.129 --> 00:06:20.769 a heavily downtuned, aggressively percussive 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:23.750 groove that completely changes the pocket of 00:06:23.750 --> 00:06:27.009 a standard rock riff. It adds a physical weight 00:06:27.009 --> 00:06:29.050 to the sound. Exactly, it gives it that thick 00:06:29.050 --> 00:06:32.050 bottom end. And then, to round out that debut 00:06:32.050 --> 00:06:35.529 album lineup, they bring in Steve Wilson on drums, 00:06:36.050 --> 00:06:38.889 who goes by the nickname Boomstick. Best nickname 00:06:38.889 --> 00:06:40.569 in the business. I had to do a double take when 00:06:40.569 --> 00:06:43.139 I looked at his resume. Because it is incredibly 00:06:43.139 --> 00:06:45.480 contradictory. It really is. Boomstick is the 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.620 former drummer for the legendary pioneering punk 00:06:48.620 --> 00:06:51.720 band Dead Kennedys. Classic punk. Right. And 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:53.839 Hizuri, he is the former drummer for the Russian 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:57.680 pop duo TATU. You really can't manufacture a 00:06:57.680 --> 00:06:59.800 more bizarre duality than that. You literally 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:02.459 can't. You have the ultimate anti -establishment 00:07:02.459 --> 00:07:06.199 chaotic punk ethos sitting right next to polished... 00:07:06.709 --> 00:07:09.050 international dance pop. It's insane. But if 00:07:09.050 --> 00:07:11.250 you analyze how that actually translates to a 00:07:11.250 --> 00:07:13.889 rock band, it makes perfect sense. How so? Well, 00:07:14.149 --> 00:07:16.129 to play for the Dead Kennedys, you need raw, 00:07:16.230 --> 00:07:18.949 blistering speed and stamina. To play for a massive 00:07:18.949 --> 00:07:21.769 pop act like TATU, you have to be able to play 00:07:21.769 --> 00:07:24.810 to a click track with absolute machine -like 00:07:24.810 --> 00:07:27.329 precision. Oh, that makes sense. When you combine 00:07:27.329 --> 00:07:29.990 raw speed with structural perfection and place 00:07:29.990 --> 00:07:32.589 it over a heavy metal bass groove from someone 00:07:32.589 --> 00:07:34.810 like Shellow, you get a rhythm section that can 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:37.850 make a standard alternative rock song sound huge. 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:40.709 And it worked. They take Jimmy Allen's proven 00:07:40.709 --> 00:07:43.670 alternative rock hip making sensibilities and 00:07:43.670 --> 00:07:46.589 layer it over this Frankenstein rhythm section. 00:07:46.750 --> 00:07:49.129 And the result is incredibly tight. The result 00:07:49.129 --> 00:07:52.029 is an EP called A Rhyme and Reason. It drops 00:07:52.029 --> 00:07:55.540 on October 20, 2009 via subson - industries. 00:07:55.579 --> 00:07:58.639 Great release. And it clocks in at exactly 25 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.620 minutes and 13 seconds long spread across seven 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:04.839 tracks. Short and sweet. No filler, just a highly 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:07.420 concentrated dose of this new sound. And they 00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:09.480 make sure the sonic fidelity matched the talent. 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:12.699 This EP was recorded at Korn Studios and produced 00:08:12.699 --> 00:08:15.199 by Tim Harkins. Wow heavy hitters. Yeah they 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:17.319 were utilizing top -tier facilities with serious 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:19.180 professionals. They didn't treat this like a 00:08:19.180 --> 00:08:21.519 garage band experiment. They packaged this unique 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:23.920 blend of talent in a very polished high -end 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.600 way. The proof is in the radio play. Track number 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.740 three, all about you. And track number six, The 00:08:30.740 --> 00:08:34.259 Drug I Need, both cracked the National Rock Radio 00:08:34.259 --> 00:08:37.960 Top 50 in 2010. The huge milestone. They achieved 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:40.700 exactly what they set out to do. But as I was 00:08:40.700 --> 00:08:43.440 tracing the timeline of these hit songs, I noticed 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.240 a massive plot twist regarding the front man. 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:49.340 The vocalist shuffle. It's a wild quirk in the 00:08:49.340 --> 00:08:51.539 band's history. So we talked about Mizzi Pacheco, 00:08:51.620 --> 00:08:53.879 the guy in the dark and lonely Hollywood studio. 00:08:54.059 --> 00:08:56.059 Right, the Stormy Night. Mizzi was the original 00:08:56.059 --> 00:08:59.679 singer. He sang on their 2007 in 2008 singles 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:02.279 like Tomorrow and Today and You Can't Change 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:04.700 Me. Setting the early tone. But more importantly, 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:07.299 Mizzi actually wrote The Top 50 Hit The Drug 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:10.129 I Need. He wrote the song Nothing Good Anymore. 00:09:10.450 --> 00:09:12.909 He co -wrote Swept Away and The Blue. He was 00:09:12.909 --> 00:09:15.389 deeply embedded in the creative process. Very. 00:09:15.730 --> 00:09:17.809 But if you look at the credited personnel on 00:09:17.809 --> 00:09:21.570 the actual 2009 A Rhyme and Reason EP, Mizzy 00:09:21.570 --> 00:09:24.169 isn't the singer. No, he's not. The vocalist 00:09:24.169 --> 00:09:26.190 credited on the album, the guy singing the top 00:09:26.190 --> 00:09:28.389 50 hit on the radio, is a completely different 00:09:28.389 --> 00:09:31.490 guy named Jeff Currant. From 7 Story Drop. Exactly, 00:09:31.649 --> 00:09:34.370 the former lead singer of 7 Story Drop. This 00:09:34.370 --> 00:09:37.169 raises an important question. How does a band 00:09:37.169 --> 00:09:40.870 maintain a cohesive authentic identity when the 00:09:40.870 --> 00:09:44.350 person whose voice is on the top 50 hit the person 00:09:44.350 --> 00:09:47.649 touring the EP? Isn't the person who originally 00:09:47.649 --> 00:09:49.470 poured their heart into writing those lyrics 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:52.450 strange, right? It is but it goes back to the 00:09:52.450 --> 00:09:54.350 startup analogy We discussed earlier right the 00:09:54.350 --> 00:09:57.389 different CEO exactly in tech a founder might 00:09:57.389 --> 00:09:59.629 build the product But a completely different 00:09:59.629 --> 00:10:02.110 CEO might be brought in to scale it and take 00:10:02.110 --> 00:10:04.269 it public. That makes a lot of sense The song 00:10:04.269 --> 00:10:06.509 itself almost becomes a separate entity from 00:10:06.509 --> 00:10:09.470 the performer. Jimmy Allen created a vehicle. 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:12.370 The vehicle required a specific part at a specific 00:10:12.370 --> 00:10:15.610 time, and it kept moving forward even as the 00:10:15.610 --> 00:10:17.950 driver swapped seats. It's still mind -blowing 00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:20.610 to me. Imagine hearing a song you wrote. A song 00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:22.809 containing your own personal lyrics, climbing 00:10:22.809 --> 00:10:25.450 the top 50 charts, but it's a hired gun's voice 00:10:25.450 --> 00:10:27.690 singing it on the radio. It has to be a surreal 00:10:27.690 --> 00:10:30.750 experience. But the story of Mizzi Pacheco doesn't 00:10:30.750 --> 00:10:33.309 end in that dark studio. He doesn't just fade 00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:35.490 into the Hollywood background. He actually comes 00:10:35.490 --> 00:10:39.460 back to the band. He does. And his return really 00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:42.299 highlights how multifaceted artists have to be 00:10:42.299 --> 00:10:45.000 to survive today. The timeline reveals that Mizzi 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.960 returns to Against All Will, and you can hear 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:51.860 and see him fronting the band on their 2012 single 00:10:51.860 --> 00:10:54.440 and music video, Love the Way You Hate Me. It's 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:56.539 a great comeback moment. But Mizzi isn't just 00:10:56.539 --> 00:10:59.519 a singer and a songwriter. He is a true multi 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:02.559 -hyphenate artist. Oh, absolutely. He is a photographer 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.120 and a video director in Los Angeles. In fact, 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:08.100 he actually directed and shot the music videos 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:10.299 for Against All Will. Talk about wearing multiple 00:11:10.299 --> 00:11:12.799 hats. He shot the video for Love the Way You 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:14.960 Hate Me, he shot The Drug I Need, and he shot 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.360 Swept Away. If we connect this to the bigger 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.240 picture, this is a perfect illustration of the 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:22.519 modern music economy. Because he's doing it all 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.559 himself. Right. In the past, a record label would 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.419 hire a separate, highly expensive production 00:11:28.419 --> 00:11:30.659 company to handle the visual side of a band. 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.559 The audio and visual departments were completely 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:37.019 siloed. They never interacted. Exactly. But here 00:11:37.019 --> 00:11:39.720 you have an artist who essentially becomes the 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.419 band's in -house visual director. Mizzi is shaping 00:11:43.419 --> 00:11:45.519 not just the sonic identity of the band through 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.320 his songwriting, but their entire visual aesthetic 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:50.740 through his directing. And he's incredibly successful 00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:53.460 outside of the band, too. His gallery work. Yes. 00:11:53.659 --> 00:11:56.919 He owns his own gallery, Pacheco Fine Art Photography, 00:11:57.200 --> 00:11:59.340 right on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu, 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:01.980 where he showcases his work. That is not easy 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.740 to pull off. Operating a gallery on the PCH is 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:07.909 prime real estate. It really underscores how 00:12:07.909 --> 00:12:10.309 insanely talented the individual components of 00:12:10.309 --> 00:12:11.870 this band were. They weren't just musicians, 00:12:11.909 --> 00:12:14.669 they were entrepreneurs. It proves that in today's 00:12:14.669 --> 00:12:17.690 landscape, a band's visual image is just as crucial 00:12:17.690 --> 00:12:20.450 as its sound. Yes. And having someone like Mizzi, 00:12:20.629 --> 00:12:23.169 who deeply understands the band's core identity 00:12:23.169 --> 00:12:25.070 because he literally helped write the songs, 00:12:25.710 --> 00:12:28.610 having him direct those visuals gives the band 00:12:28.610 --> 00:12:31.269 an authentic edge that a label usually can't 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:33.789 buy. They became a self -contained media house. 00:12:33.990 --> 00:12:36.370 So we have this powerhouse group. They've got 00:12:36.370 --> 00:12:39.049 the radio hits. They've got the in -house visual 00:12:39.049 --> 00:12:42.970 director. They've got this insane pedigree, crossing 00:12:42.970 --> 00:12:45.470 metal, punk, and alt rock. All the ingredients 00:12:45.470 --> 00:12:47.970 for a massive run. But as we move into the final 00:12:47.970 --> 00:12:51.590 years of the band, that volatile startup energy 00:12:51.590 --> 00:12:54.070 starts to shift the foundation again. The lineup 00:12:54.070 --> 00:12:56.210 changes again. We see another change in the rhythm 00:12:56.210 --> 00:13:00.409 section. In March 2011, Boomstick Wilson, our 00:13:00.409 --> 00:13:03.450 punk pop drumming hero, is briefly replaced by 00:13:03.450 --> 00:13:06.629 a guy named Philip Ganya. And Ganya brings yet 00:13:06.629 --> 00:13:09.129 another distinct flavor to the drum kit. He does. 00:13:09.309 --> 00:13:11.470 He was the former drummer for Instinctive Aggression 00:13:11.470 --> 00:13:14.610 and later played with the LA Heavy Metal Band 00:13:14.610 --> 00:13:17.269 before The Morning. Very heavy background. So 00:13:17.269 --> 00:13:19.610 with Ganya stepping in, they're clearly leaning 00:13:19.610 --> 00:13:21.809 heavily back into that aggressive double kick 00:13:21.809 --> 00:13:24.950 metal sound, pulling away from the pop punk precision 00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:27.269 Boomstick provided. It's a brief change, though. 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:29.919 Boomstick actually reclaims the drum throne in 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.679 2012. He comes right back. The band pushes forward, 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:35.279 releasing a few final singles up through 2013. 00:13:35.779 --> 00:13:39.259 We get tracks like Sunset Jupiter and a song 00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:42.120 with a very ironic title considering the timeline, 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.879 Another Nail in the Coffin, released in 2013. 00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:48.299 A fitting, if completely unintentional, epitaph 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:51.000 for the group. Right. Because after 2013, the 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.019 trail essentially goes cold. It just stops. And 00:13:54.019 --> 00:13:55.879 this is the part that fascinates me the most. 00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:59.019 In their discography, under the studio album 00:13:59.019 --> 00:14:01.799 section, there is a full -length project listed 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:05.179 simply as TPD to be determined. The Phantom album. 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:07.940 Yes. A full -length studio project that seemingly 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:11.279 never materialized despite the undeniable success 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.799 of the EP and the top 50 singles. So what does 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:15.940 this all mean? I want you to think about your 00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:18.340 own life for a second. Have you ever been part 00:14:18.340 --> 00:14:20.899 of a project, maybe a massive undertaking at 00:14:20.899 --> 00:14:23.299 work, or a personal creative endeavor that burned 00:14:23.299 --> 00:14:26.240 incredibly brightly but morphed, changed hands, 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.220 or just slowly faded away before reaching its 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.399 ultimate final stage? Most people have. That's 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:34.779 what this TBD album represents to me. It is the 00:14:34.779 --> 00:14:37.419 reality of collaboration. It's a powerful way 00:14:37.419 --> 00:14:39.720 to look at it, especially when we consider the 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.879 phenomenon of lost media. Oh, that's a great 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.320 point. In our digital age, We expect every piece 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.659 of art to be instantly accessible. The idea that 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:51.399 a group of highly successful veteran musicians 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:54.799 recorded material for a full length album that 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.440 is just sitting on a hard drive somewhere unheard 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.620 is haunting. It really is. To synthesize everything 00:15:00.620 --> 00:15:03.120 we've looked at today, Against All Will wasn't 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.139 just a standard rock band. It was this highly 00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:08.559 combustible intersection of Los Angeles rock 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:11.139 history. Combustible is the perfect word. It 00:15:11.139 --> 00:15:13.710 acts as definitive proof. that you can take the 00:15:13.710 --> 00:15:16.309 distinct musical DNA of an award -winning hitmaker 00:15:16.309 --> 00:15:18.769 like Jimmy Allen, combine it with a heavy metal 00:15:18.769 --> 00:15:21.720 bassist from Soulfly, a drummer who bridges the 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.840 Dead Kennedys and Russian pop, and a multimedia 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.700 visionary like Mizzi Pacheco, and successfully 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:30.960 engineer top 50 radio hits. The talent is just 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.179 undeniable. They proved the concept works even 00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:35.899 if the lineup was constantly in flux. The friction 00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:38.159 of those different backgrounds is exactly what 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.360 created the spark. It wasn't a bug in the system, 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:42.879 the friction was the feature. Beautifully said. 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:45.440 But as we wrap up this deep dive, I want to leave 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:47.720 you with one final thought to mull over regarding 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:50.500 that TBD full length album and the nature of 00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:53.200 lost media we just touched on. Go for it. When 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:55.840 a super group of established artists comes together, 00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:58.899 they bring immense talent. Absolutely. But they 00:15:58.899 --> 00:16:01.519 also bring immense baggage, previous commitments 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.559 and highly developed individual egos and ambitions. 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.259 That's unavoidable. Does the very pedigree that 00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:09.940 makes a band like Against All Will so capable 00:16:09.940 --> 00:16:12.769 of creating a quick radio hit also make them 00:16:12.769 --> 00:16:16.289 too volatile to sustain a long -term multi -album 00:16:16.289 --> 00:16:18.570 legacy? That's the million -dollar question. 00:16:18.850 --> 00:16:21.350 What happens to the art that gets trapped forever 00:16:21.350 --> 00:16:23.750 in the to -be -determined phase? Think about 00:16:23.750 --> 00:16:26.149 the psychological toll on an artist knowing their 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:28.809 best work might be permanently shelved. Is a 00:16:28.809 --> 00:16:31.529 brilliant 25 -minute EP enough of a legacy to 00:16:31.529 --> 00:16:34.049 leave behind, or is it merely a fleeting glimpse 00:16:34.049 --> 00:16:35.990 of a masterpiece we'll never get to hear? That 00:16:35.990 --> 00:16:39.309 is a phenomenal question to ponder. The precarious 00:16:39.309 --> 00:16:42.019 balance between brief, explosive creation creativity 00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:45.299 and long -term endurance is a tightrope every 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:48.039 collaborative artist has to walk. We enthusiastically 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:50.340 thank you for joining us on this deep dive today. 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.440 We hope you keep questioning the history behind 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.019 the hits, keep exploring, and keep looking for 00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:57.179 those unexpected connections in the music you 00:16:57.179 --> 00:16:59.100 listen to. Until next time.