WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.439 Welcome in. If you are listening to this, I think 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:04.820 I already know a few things about you. You're 00:00:04.820 --> 00:00:08.019 a curious learner. Yeah, exactly. The kind of 00:00:08.019 --> 00:00:09.980 person who doesn't just take things at face value. 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:13.800 Right. You like to discover the surprising, the 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.339 hidden mechanics behind everyday things. You 00:00:16.339 --> 00:00:18.579 like looking under the hood. And honestly, that 00:00:18.579 --> 00:00:21.820 is the entire mission. of today's deep dive we 00:00:21.820 --> 00:00:24.640 are taking a look at one very specific piece 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:27.100 of source material today a wikipedia article 00:00:27.100 --> 00:00:30.100 yeah the article detailing the 2009 album on 00:00:30.100 --> 00:00:32.280 your side by the american rock band a rocket 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:34.840 to the moon now you might be sitting there wondering 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:37.259 why we're dedicating our time to this one specific 00:00:37.259 --> 00:00:39.420 album it's a fair question because we aren't 00:00:39.420 --> 00:00:41.619 just looking at a collection of songs today we 00:00:41.619 --> 00:00:43.960 are going to examine the entire blueprint of 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:47.060 late 2000s emo pop we're looking at what happens 00:00:47.060 --> 00:00:50.350 when spontaneous lightning -in -a -bottle creativity 00:00:50.350 --> 00:00:53.590 basically collides head -on with highly calculated 00:00:53.590 --> 00:00:56.829 commercial music formulas. It really does serve 00:00:56.829 --> 00:00:59.369 as a fascinating case study for that entire era 00:00:59.369 --> 00:01:02.490 of music. When you look back at the late 2000s 00:01:02.490 --> 00:01:05.049 music scene, especially that pop rock and emo 00:01:05.049 --> 00:01:07.030 pop explosion, it can be really easy to just 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:09.150 see the surface level. The neon merch. Right, 00:01:09.209 --> 00:01:11.409 the neon merchandise, the dramatic haircuts, 00:01:11.650 --> 00:01:15.049 the very specific fashion of the time. But beneath 00:01:15.049 --> 00:01:18.450 that aesthetic layer, there was this fiercely 00:01:18.450 --> 00:01:21.969 competitive industry. It was an ecosystem that 00:01:21.969 --> 00:01:25.069 demanded both raw emotional connection and, you 00:01:25.069 --> 00:01:27.980 know, of pristine radio -ready polish. A tough 00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:31.079 balance. Very tough. And this single album and 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:33.420 the story of how it was made and sold, it encapsulates 00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:35.620 that entire methodology perfectly. So to set 00:01:35.620 --> 00:01:38.000 the stage for you, this album, On Your Side, 00:01:38.180 --> 00:01:41.780 it dropped on October 13th, 2009, and it was 00:01:41.780 --> 00:01:44.640 released via Fueled by Ramen. Which is huge. 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.299 Yeah, for some context. In 2009, Fueled by Ramen 00:01:47.299 --> 00:01:49.620 wasn't just a record label. It was the undisputed 00:01:49.620 --> 00:01:52.200 hitmaker for this entire subculture. If a band 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:54.040 was on that label, there was an immediate expectation 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:56.260 of commercial viability. And a very specific 00:01:56.260 --> 00:01:59.180 polished sound. Exactly. Okay, let's unpack this, 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.579 because on the surface, this is a very straightforward 00:02:01.579 --> 00:02:05.099 38 -minute, 12 -track pop rock record. But when 00:02:05.099 --> 00:02:07.480 you look closer at the source material, it actually 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:09.819 serves as a masterclass in the tension between 00:02:09.819 --> 00:02:13.460 raw inspiration and strict genre conventions. 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:15.680 Where do we start? Let's start with the actual 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.139 songwriting, which was largely driven by the 00:02:18.139 --> 00:02:21.599 band's vocalist, Nick Santino. According to the 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:24.020 article, the overarching theme of this record 00:02:24.020 --> 00:02:27.500 was love. And Santino was quoted saying that 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:29.979 this subject was, quote, easy to write about. 00:02:30.330 --> 00:02:33.430 Which I just find so funny. Right. It's a surprisingly 00:02:33.430 --> 00:02:35.990 candid admission for a frontman to make. I mean, 00:02:36.009 --> 00:02:38.469 usually artists in any genre, they want to project 00:02:38.469 --> 00:02:42.009 this image of agonizing over every single syllable. 00:02:42.150 --> 00:02:44.550 Suffering for their art. Yeah, suffering to reach 00:02:44.550 --> 00:02:47.770 some profound truth. But Santino just flat out 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:50.050 says that writing about love was easy. And when 00:02:50.050 --> 00:02:52.110 you look at the specific inspirations for these 00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:54.189 tracks, you can start to see why he felt that 00:02:54.189 --> 00:02:56.430 way. He wasn't trying to write, like, sweeping 00:02:56.430 --> 00:02:59.659 abstract poetry. No, not at all. He was looking 00:02:59.659 --> 00:03:02.919 at highly specific, literal, and honestly sometimes 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.039 humorous real -world situations and translating 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:08.860 them directly into pop -punk songs. That candid 00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:11.419 approach explains the opening track perfectly, 00:03:11.620 --> 00:03:13.780 actually. When you look at a song like Annabelle, 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:16.199 the source notes that this is a really energetic 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:19.300 track, but the inspiration behind it isn't some 00:03:19.300 --> 00:03:22.039 grand romance or tragic heartbreak. It's way 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:25.319 more mundane. So mundane. Santino literally just 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:28.180 observed that very specific, awkward dynamic 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:30.780 we've all probably seen at a mall or a restaurant. 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:33.240 You know, girls treating their boyfriends poorly 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:36.039 in public. He took that simple, everyday observation 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:38.740 and just turned it into a high -energy rock song. 00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:42.099 And the band also brought in some distinct musical 00:03:42.099 --> 00:03:44.900 throwbacks that blended genres in a deliberate 00:03:44.900 --> 00:03:47.270 way. There's a track called Life of the Party, 00:03:47.389 --> 00:03:49.569 which the text describes as having an 80s dance 00:03:49.569 --> 00:03:51.810 pop feel. Oh, I love the concept for that one. 00:03:51.909 --> 00:03:54.430 It's so observational. It's about a girl who 00:03:54.430 --> 00:03:57.229 loves the word love and will basically do anything 00:03:57.229 --> 00:03:59.250 just to tell people she's in it. It takes this 00:03:59.250 --> 00:04:01.729 recognized social archetype. The serial romantic. 00:04:02.069 --> 00:04:05.569 Right, the serial romantic who... loves the drama 00:04:05.569 --> 00:04:08.469 of a relationship way more than the relationship 00:04:08.469 --> 00:04:11.909 itself. And it packages it into an 80s -inspired 00:04:11.909 --> 00:04:15.169 sonic rapper. It shows a real level of self -awareness. 00:04:15.389 --> 00:04:17.529 The band understood that they were playing with 00:04:17.529 --> 00:04:20.029 tropes, so they leaned into them musically as 00:04:20.029 --> 00:04:22.029 well as lyrically. And they didn't stop at the 00:04:22.029 --> 00:04:24.410 80s either. The source highlights another song 00:04:24.410 --> 00:04:27.350 called Give a Damn, which features a very distinct 00:04:27.350 --> 00:04:30.449 90s sound. The lyrical inspiration for that one 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:33.459 is that classic trope of the Dream Girl. But 00:04:33.459 --> 00:04:35.339 specifically the drain girl who doesn't even 00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:38.319 know you exist. Yes. It's that universal feeling 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:40.459 of being completely invisible to the person you 00:04:40.459 --> 00:04:43.180 are infatuated with. They're stacking these highly 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:45.699 relatable concepts one right on top of another. 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:47.600 But here's where it gets really interesting. 00:04:47.779 --> 00:04:50.040 Because you would naturally assume that perfectly 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.600 distilling these concepts into 12 catchy tracks 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:55.339 would take, I don't know, months of agonizing 00:04:55.339 --> 00:04:57.680 studio sessions. You'd think so. But the source 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:00.589 material gives us two anecdotes. about the speed 00:05:00.589 --> 00:05:03.410 of this band's songwriting that completely shatter 00:05:03.410 --> 00:05:06.750 that assumption. First, the title track, On Your 00:05:06.750 --> 00:05:09.709 Side. It was written by Santino on a flight home 00:05:09.709 --> 00:05:12.310 from Phoenix, Arizona. On an airplane. On an 00:05:12.310 --> 00:05:14.449 airplane. He had the lyric, my love will always 00:05:14.449 --> 00:05:16.709 be on your side, just pop into his head. He jotted 00:05:16.709 --> 00:05:18.490 it down in a notebook while sitting in his airplane 00:05:18.490 --> 00:05:21.470 seat and then figured out the actual melody for 00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:24.050 it later. The fact that the anchor of the entire 00:05:24.050 --> 00:05:26.730 album started as a stray thought on a commercial 00:05:26.730 --> 00:05:30.160 flight is just... compelling, but the story behind 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.939 their biggest single takes that rapid -fire approach 00:05:32.939 --> 00:05:35.319 to a completely different level. It really does. 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:37.879 The source material mentions they wrote their 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:41.000 biggest single, like we used to, in just 45 minutes. 00:05:41.100 --> 00:05:43.660 Unbelievable. 45 minutes. They had just finished 00:05:43.660 --> 00:05:46.259 playing a show in Michigan, sat down, drafted 00:05:46.259 --> 00:05:48.819 the song in under an hour, and then the very 00:05:48.819 --> 00:05:51.439 next day, they hopped on a flight to Los Angeles 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:54.160 to record it. As someone who studies these creative 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:56.750 mechanics, How is it mathematically possible 00:05:56.750 --> 00:05:59.730 to write a functioning pop song that quickly? 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:02.589 What's fascinating here is the underlying psychology 00:06:02.589 --> 00:06:05.230 of constraints. When we hear that a hit song 00:06:05.230 --> 00:06:08.410 was written in 45 minutes or drafted on an airplane 00:06:08.410 --> 00:06:11.790 napkin, our initial reaction is usually disbelief. 00:06:11.990 --> 00:06:14.209 Right, because we think good things take time. 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.759 Exactly. We are conditioned to assume that quality 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:21.240 requires endless time and revision. But in creative 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.740 endeavors, especially in highly structured genres 00:06:23.740 --> 00:06:27.279 like emo pop or pop rock, extreme constraints 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.449 are often an artist's best friend. Think about 00:06:30.449 --> 00:06:33.250 the physical environment of that 45 -minute window. 00:06:33.470 --> 00:06:35.870 Waddy and tired. Yeah, they are in a cramped 00:06:35.870 --> 00:06:38.990 green room after a sweaty show in Michigan. The 00:06:38.990 --> 00:06:41.269 adrenaline is still pumping. They don't have 00:06:41.269 --> 00:06:43.470 the luxury of a plush studio where they can debate 00:06:43.470 --> 00:06:46.730 a single chord change for three days. That physical 00:06:46.730 --> 00:06:49.350 and temporal limitation forces the brain to bypass 00:06:49.350 --> 00:06:51.550 the trap of overthinking. They're forced into 00:06:51.550 --> 00:06:53.370 a flow state simply because they don't have the 00:06:53.370 --> 00:06:55.189 time or space to second -guess their initial 00:06:55.189 --> 00:06:57.600 instincts. That is the core of it. You don't 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:59.480 have time to worry about whether a chord progression 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.680 is too simple or if a lyric is too blunt. You 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:05.829 go with pure instinct. In a genre that relies 00:07:05.829 --> 00:07:08.750 entirely on an immediate, visceral, emotional 00:07:08.750 --> 00:07:11.730 connection with the listener, that instinctual, 00:07:11.750 --> 00:07:14.509 unedited first thought is usually the most genuine. 00:07:14.949 --> 00:07:17.490 Bypassing the inner critic. Bypassing the analytical 00:07:17.490 --> 00:07:20.629 mind is exactly what leads to the highly relatable, 00:07:20.750 --> 00:07:23.810 massive earworm melodies that define the specific 00:07:23.810 --> 00:07:27.509 era of music. The 45 -minute sprint didn't hurt 00:07:27.509 --> 00:07:30.269 the song. The urgency of that sprint is likely 00:07:30.269 --> 00:07:33.009 the very reason the song succeeded. You are capturing 00:07:33.009 --> 00:07:34.879 the lightning in the the bottle before the analytical 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.040 brain has a chance to let it out. But once you 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:38.459 capture that lightning, you have to actually 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:40.360 build the bottle. You have to manufacture the 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:42.720 product. Right. Let's transition into the machinery 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:47.360 behind a 2009 emo pop release. The source breaks 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:49.899 down the core personnel who brought this to life. 00:07:50.060 --> 00:07:52.980 We have Nick Santino on vocals and guitar. Justin 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:55.680 Richards also on guitar. Eric Halverson on bass 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.810 and Andrew Cook on drums. And a few guests. Yeah, 00:07:58.850 --> 00:08:01.149 they brought in guest vocalists Caitlin Harnett 00:08:01.149 --> 00:08:03.709 and Brandon Ronski to feature on a couple of 00:08:03.709 --> 00:08:06.170 tracks. And to polish all of this, they brought 00:08:06.170 --> 00:08:08.490 in producer Matt Squire, recording the whole 00:08:08.490 --> 00:08:10.790 thing at the Lair Recording Studio in Los Angeles 00:08:10.790 --> 00:08:13.959 between February and March of 2009. Which is 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:17.139 a pretty standard setup. It is, but getting that 00:08:17.139 --> 00:08:20.680 pristine, radio -ready album recorded is just 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:22.920 the starting line. The promotion schedule they 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:25.699 embarked on immediately after is honestly grueling 00:08:25.699 --> 00:08:27.740 to even read. The physical toll of these tour 00:08:27.740 --> 00:08:30.540 cycles is a crucial piece of the puzzle. It was 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:32.580 a completely different era of the music business, 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.259 and understanding the sheer volume of their touring 00:08:35.259 --> 00:08:38.519 helps contextualize the album's entire life cycle. 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:40.980 Just listen to the reality of this lineup. To 00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:43.200 support the album, they jumped on a U .S. tour 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.580 from October to November 2009 with an absolute 00:08:46.580 --> 00:08:49.960 who's who of late 2000s scene stables. They were 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:52.759 out with Boys Like Girls, Cobra Starship, The 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:55.759 Mane, and VersaMerge. Then, in the spring of 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.100 2010, they go right back out, supporting Sing 00:08:58.100 --> 00:09:00.320 It Loud, Motion City Soundtrack, and the band 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.179 Fun. It doesn't stop. No. In October 2010, they 00:09:04.179 --> 00:09:06.539 pivot entirely and jump on the Shout It Out tour 00:09:06.539 --> 00:09:08.799 with Hanson. Yes, Hanson. Then they do the My 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:11.220 Small Package tour with Before You Exit in December 00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:14.039 2010. And after grinding as a supporting act 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.480 for nearly two years, they finally headline their 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:19.620 own On Your Side tour in early 2011 with Annabur, 00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:23.340 Valencia, Runner Runner, and Go Radio. That is 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:25.159 an incredible amount of time living in a van 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.460 or a bus. If we connect this to the bigger picture, 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:30.100 this touring schedule provides a window into 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:32.419 into the grim reality of music promotion at this 00:09:32.419 --> 00:09:36.059 specific point in time. In 2009, streaming platforms 00:09:36.059 --> 00:09:38.860 like Spotify were in their absolute infancy. 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:41.940 Barely a blip. Right. Social media was growing 00:09:41.940 --> 00:09:44.480 with platforms like MySpace shifting power over 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:46.820 to Facebook and Twitter. But it was not yet the 00:09:46.820 --> 00:09:48.980 dominant algorithm driven machine that could 00:09:48.980 --> 00:09:51.799 break a band overnight. Building a brand required 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.059 relentless physical touring. You couldn't just 00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:55.940 upload a catchy hook to TikTok and wait for it 00:09:55.940 --> 00:09:58.419 to go viral. You had to physically drive your 00:09:58.419 --> 00:10:01.080 music to midsize venues and mall parking lots 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.419 across the entire country. But what was the strategy 00:10:04.419 --> 00:10:06.779 behind pairing them with such vastly different 00:10:06.779 --> 00:10:09.700 acts? Because touring with Cobra Starship seems 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:11.919 very different from touring with a legacy pop 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.639 group like Hanson. The strategy was aggressive 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.600 cross -pollination. You take an emerging act 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.679 like A Rocket to the Moon, armed with these pristine 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:23.960 45 -minute pop songs, and you place them in front 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:27.059 of established fan bases night after night. casting 00:10:27.059 --> 00:10:30.080 a wide net exactly cobra starship brings the 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:32.600 high energy party crowd motion city soundtrack 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:35.299 brings a slightly older more critical indie pop 00:10:35.299 --> 00:10:38.919 audience hansen brings a highly dedicated legacy 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.820 pop fan base you are putting your music in front 00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:43.659 of a captive audience and banking on the hope 00:10:43.659 --> 00:10:46.440 that 10 of that room connects with your 45 minute 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:48.500 song enough to go to the merchandise table and 00:10:48.500 --> 00:10:51.000 buy a physical cd it really proves that writing 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.419 a catchy song was only half the battle the other 00:10:53.419 --> 00:10:56.399 half was an absolute grind of endurance to manually 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.019 inject those songs into the culture. And it is 00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:02.740 deeply ironic because that relentless blue -collar 00:11:02.740 --> 00:11:05.580 work ethic they exhibited on the road completely 00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:08.519 contrasted with how the music critics viewed 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:10.899 the final product. Oh, the critics. The critics 00:11:10.899 --> 00:11:12.879 didn't necessarily see the grind. They just heard 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:16.000 a glossy pop record and immediately formed their 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.620 opinions. The source material outlines a real 00:11:18.620 --> 00:11:21.100 spectrum of reviews. The reception was generally 00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:23.559 mixed to positive, but critics were fiercely 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:26.600 divided on the album's actual sound. Some saw 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:29.179 the tight, polished pop rock as a massive strength, 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:32.139 while others saw it as a glaring weakness. Which 00:11:32.139 --> 00:11:34.460 is typical for the genre. Let's look at the positives 00:11:34.460 --> 00:11:37.159 first. The text highlights a review from Tim 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.460 Sendra at AllMusic. He praised Santino's vocals, 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:42.899 saying they were angst -fueled but never whiny 00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:45.220 or gruff, which is a fine line to walk. A very 00:11:45.220 --> 00:11:47.340 fine line. He noted the choruses were easy to 00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:49.620 sing with. But the most striking observation 00:11:49.620 --> 00:11:52.120 Sendra makes is that these songs could actually 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.879 be pop hits in the 1970s, if stripped of their 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.669 modern sound. He summarized the album by calling 00:11:57.669 --> 00:12:00.970 it, quote, generic in a good way, which just 00:12:00.970 --> 00:12:02.889 sounds like a total oxymoron on the surface. 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:05.970 It does sound like an oxymoron, but within the 00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:09.090 context of pop music criticism, it is arguably 00:12:09.090 --> 00:12:11.490 the highest praise a songwriter can receive. 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:14.370 Not everyone saw it that way, though. You have 00:12:14.370 --> 00:12:17.169 the critics who push back hard against the cliches. 00:12:17.610 --> 00:12:20.070 Alternative Addiction reviewed it and acknowledged 00:12:20.070 --> 00:12:22.750 the songwriting was insanely catchy, the production 00:12:22.750 --> 00:12:25.379 was stellar, and the vocals were great. but they 00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:27.620 still docked the album's score because it relied 00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:30.500 too heavily on pop -punk cliches. Interesting. 00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:33.100 Yeah. And a reviewer named Johan Whipson, writing 00:12:33.100 --> 00:12:35.919 for Melodic, praised the great melodies, but 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:37.799 complained that the band didn't stand out from 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:39.580 the many other similar acts out there at the 00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:42.519 time. Alternative Press seemed torn, noting the 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:44.740 band was splitting their time between Life of 00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:47.299 the Party Pop and hard -on -sleeve balladry and 00:12:47.299 --> 00:12:49.659 directly compared them to peers like The Main 00:12:49.659 --> 00:12:51.500 and Brighton. And then there's the really bad 00:12:51.500 --> 00:12:54.320 one. Yes. Finally, you have the truly harsh critique. 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:56.919 Blake Solomon over at Absolute Punk gave the 00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:59.419 record a scorching negative review, claiming 00:12:59.419 --> 00:13:03.000 it had, quote, no soul, no urgency, and definitely 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:06.000 no sustainability. I mean, how do you reconcile 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.960 a record having stellar production and insanely 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:11.840 catchy songwriting, but simultaneously having 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.820 no soul? This critical divide gets to the very 00:13:14.820 --> 00:13:17.600 heart of how we evaluate popular music and it 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:19.899 asks us to consider the inherent tension between 00:13:19.899 --> 00:13:22.950 innovation and execution. In music criticism, 00:13:23.169 --> 00:13:26.389 there is a heavy systemic bias toward edgy experimentation. 00:13:26.809 --> 00:13:28.509 Because they listen to so much music. Exactly. 00:13:28.769 --> 00:13:30.750 Critics listen to hundreds of albums a month. 00:13:30.830 --> 00:13:32.669 They desperately crave something that breaks 00:13:32.669 --> 00:13:34.970 the mold, something that shatters genre conventions 00:13:34.970 --> 00:13:37.370 simply because they are fatigued by the norm. 00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:40.190 But that fatigue often blinds them to the incredible 00:13:40.190 --> 00:13:42.990 skill required to execute a widely loved formula 00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:45.750 perfectly. Are you saying that what critics dismiss 00:13:45.750 --> 00:13:48.330 as cliché is actually just a band perfectly hitting 00:13:48.330 --> 00:13:50.049 the psychological trigger points of the human 00:13:50.049 --> 00:13:53.220 ear? Precisely. To create something that a critic 00:13:53.220 --> 00:13:56.460 calls generic in a good way means you have mastered 00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:58.639 the underlying mathematics of human enjoyment. 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:02.120 You have distilled melody, rhythm, and lyrical 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:05.259 themes down to such a fundamental level that, 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:07.940 as the AllMusicReviewer noted, the core of the 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:10.779 song could work in the 1970s just as well as 00:14:10.779 --> 00:14:14.159 it does in 2009. That's a great point. That isn't 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.460 a lack of creativity that is perfecting a universal 00:14:16.460 --> 00:14:19.820 formula. When critics complain about cliches 00:14:19.820 --> 00:14:21.940 or complain that a band doesn't stand out from 00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:24.500 their peers, they are often punishing the artist 00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:26.799 for giving the audience exactly what the audience 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.919 wants. Perfecting a formula is a phenomenal technical 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:33.019 skill. Dismissing a perfectly constructed pop 00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:36.340 hook as having no soul severely undervalues the 00:14:36.340 --> 00:14:38.759 sheer craftsmanship of writing a bulletproof 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:42.340 melody in 45 minutes. That completely reframes 00:14:42.340 --> 00:14:44.320 the entire conversation around pop rock for me. 00:14:44.419 --> 00:14:46.179 At the end of the day, the person buying the 00:14:46.179 --> 00:14:48.460 record... venue parking lot, doesn't care if 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:50.559 the album breaks new ground in music theory. 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:52.419 They care about what makes them feel understood 00:14:52.419 --> 00:14:54.580 and what gets stuck in their head for a week. 00:14:54.620 --> 00:14:56.899 So what does this all mean when we look at the 00:14:56.899 --> 00:14:59.899 actual scoreboard? The commercial reality of 00:14:59.899 --> 00:15:03.399 On Your Side provides a very clear answer. When 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.480 the album debuted, it hit number 82 on the Billboard 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.129 200 chart. It reached number 23 on the top alternative 00:15:10.129 --> 00:15:13.710 albums chart and number 35 on the top rock albums 00:15:13.710 --> 00:15:16.269 chart. Solid numbers. To break that down briefly, 00:15:16.470 --> 00:15:18.909 the Billboard 200 measures the most popular albums 00:15:18.909 --> 00:15:21.409 across all genres, while the alternative and 00:15:21.409 --> 00:15:23.730 rock charts are highly specific genre rankings. 00:15:23.950 --> 00:15:26.389 And that single we discussed earlier, like we 00:15:26.389 --> 00:15:29.509 used to, managed to peak at number 91 on the 00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:32.509 mainstream Billboard Hot 100. Fast forward to 00:15:32.509 --> 00:15:35.769 March 2013, the source notes that Nielsen SoundScan 00:15:35.769 --> 00:15:37.850 numbers showed the album had officially sold 00:15:37.850 --> 00:15:41.250 82 ,000 copies in the United States. We really 00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:43.210 need to contextualize those numbers for a modern 00:15:43.210 --> 00:15:45.549 listener. Today, we are used to seeing streaming 00:15:45.549 --> 00:15:47.830 numbers in the hundreds of millions or even billions. 00:15:48.149 --> 00:15:51.389 Hearing that an album sold 82 ,000 copies or 00:15:51.389 --> 00:15:53.909 peaked at number 91 on the Hot 100 might not 00:15:53.909 --> 00:15:56.350 sound like a global mega blockbuster. But you 00:15:56.350 --> 00:15:58.769 have to remember the context of the 2009 music 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:01.830 industry. Just to clarify for the listener, Nielsen's 00:16:01.830 --> 00:16:03.889 sound scan was essentially the industry's official 00:16:03.889 --> 00:16:06.830 cash register at the time. It tracked the actual 00:16:06.830 --> 00:16:09.289 physical barcodes scanned at record stores as 00:16:09.289 --> 00:16:14.950 well as digital. So in 2009, physical album sales 00:16:14.950 --> 00:16:17.169 were already in a massive freefall due to digital 00:16:17.169 --> 00:16:19.590 piracy and the unbundling of albums via iTunes. 00:16:19.789 --> 00:16:22.629 What does 82 ,000 sales actually represent in 00:16:22.629 --> 00:16:25.149 that climate? it represents a massive highly 00:16:25.149 --> 00:16:27.789 tangible success for an emerging rock band signed 00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:31.250 to a scene label to convince 82 000 individual 00:16:31.250 --> 00:16:33.450 human beings to part with their actual money 00:16:33.450 --> 00:16:35.850 to drive to a physical store or walk up to a 00:16:35.850 --> 00:16:37.769 folding table at a concert and purchase a physical 00:16:37.769 --> 00:16:40.909 cd is a monumental achievement in a declining 00:16:40.909 --> 00:16:43.070 market when they could just download it for free 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:46.240 Exactly. Furthermore, getting a pop punk song 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.159 onto the Billboard Hot 100, a chart completely 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:52.600 dominated by massive mainstream radio, pop, R 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.600 &B, and hip -hop, is incredibly difficult. These 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.740 numbers completely validate everything the band 00:16:57.740 --> 00:17:00.799 did. They validate the lightning -fast, instinctual 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.159 songwriting on the airplane, and they validate 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.839 the exhausting, years -long touring schedule 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:08.980 with Cobra Starship and Hanson. The data proves 00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:11.720 that the generic in -a -good -way formula effectively 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:13.529 did exactly what it did. it was engineered to 00:17:13.529 --> 00:17:16.029 do. It's a true testament to knowing your audience 00:17:16.029 --> 00:17:18.829 and executing the playbook flawlessly. When we 00:17:18.829 --> 00:17:20.569 pull all of the threads of this source material 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:23.210 together, the journey of On Your Side is remarkable. 00:17:23.569 --> 00:17:25.869 You start with a stray idea scribbled on an airplane 00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:28.430 notebook. You mix in deliberate nods to 80s dance 00:17:28.430 --> 00:17:31.349 pop and 90s nostalgia. You embrace the psychological 00:17:31.349 --> 00:17:33.750 constraint of 45 -minute songwriting sessions 00:17:33.750 --> 00:17:35.769 to bypass the inner critic. And then you work 00:17:35.769 --> 00:17:39.299 it. And then you take that pristine Los Angeles 00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:42.240 produced studio sound and you grind it out in 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.380 the sweaty reality of a two year tour cycle. 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.380 The result is an album that moves 82 ,000 tangible 00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:51.759 units in a collapsing physical market. Cementing 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.480 itself as a permanent fixture in the late 2000s 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.380 emo pop canon, regardless of what the music critics 00:17:57.380 --> 00:17:59.599 had to say about it. This raises an important 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.579 question and it is something I really want you 00:18:01.579 --> 00:18:04.099 to mull over after we wrap up today. We spent 00:18:04.099 --> 00:18:07.740 time unpacking how critics in 2009 knocked this 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:10.140 album for being cliche, for leaning too hard 00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:12.220 into genre tropes, and for not reinventing the 00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:15.099 wheel. But when we look back at the broad sweep 00:18:15.099 --> 00:18:17.539 of history, isn't it often the generic or highly 00:18:17.539 --> 00:18:20.180 formulaic albums that end up becoming the absolute 00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:23.259 best untainted time capsules of a specific era? 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:25.589 That's a profound thought. Think about it. When 00:18:25.589 --> 00:18:27.309 you listen to an album that perfectly follows 00:18:27.309 --> 00:18:29.269 all the rules of its day without trying to be 00:18:29.269 --> 00:18:32.509 some avant -garde experimental outlier, are you 00:18:32.509 --> 00:18:34.910 actually getting a purer, more accurate slice 00:18:34.910 --> 00:18:37.410 of musical history? That is a fascinating lens 00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:40.630 to view our media through. The idea that a perfect 00:18:40.630 --> 00:18:43.430 time capsule achieves its status precisely because 00:18:43.430 --> 00:18:46.109 it didn't try to be anything other than a product 00:18:46.109 --> 00:18:49.039 of its time. I love that thought. Thank you for 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.400 joining us on this deep dive. Keep looking under 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.259 the hood, keep questioning the mechanics of the 00:18:53.259 --> 00:18:55.519 things you love, and keep seeking out the fascinating 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:57.799 stories hidden behind the music you listen to 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.579 every single day. We will catch you on the next 00:19:00.579 --> 00:19:00.779 one.