WEBVTT

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Welcome, everyone. We are so glad you could join

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us today for this deep dive into the sources.

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Absolutely. It's going to be a fun one. Yeah.

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So I want you to picture something for a moment.

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You're sitting at your computer. It's late. You

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fall down one of those late night Internet rabbit

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holes. Right. And you land on a Wikipedia article.

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We've all been there. Right. And the title of

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this one is List of United States Senators from

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Illinois. Which I mean. You have to do exactly

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what you're thinking. You're thinking, wow, that

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sounds like a spreadsheet. Yeah. That sounds

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like an absolute cure for insomnia. It is literally

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just a table of names, dates and political parties.

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But trust me on this. You're going to want to

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stick around. You really are. Because, I mean,

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it does look incredibly dry at first glance.

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Right. It's just a chronological roster of politicians.

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Right. you know, apply a little historical context,

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the entire narrative completely changes. It really

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does. You start seeing these massive constitutional

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standoffs just sort of hiding in plain sight.

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And that is our mission for you today. We're

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going to prove that this seemingly straightforward

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administrative list is actually this treasure

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trove of political drama, broken rules and major

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historical milestones. OK, let's unpack this.

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Let's do it. To set the stage for you, we really

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need to go back to the very beginning. So Illinois

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was admitted to the union on December 3rd, 1818.

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OK. And since that day, the state has been represented

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in the United States Senate by exactly 47 individuals.

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Wow. Just 47 people over the course of more than

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two centuries. Which honestly strikes me as a

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surprisingly small number when you think about

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how long Illinois has been a state. Yeah. And

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200 years of history. And you basically fit every

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senator they've ever had onto a single Greyhound

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bus. It is a very exclusive club. And just as

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a quick refresher on how the Senate operates,

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because this kind of dictates the flow of this

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entire list. Senators from Illinois, like all

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states, they're divided into specific classes.

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Right. The staggered elections. Exactly. In Illinois'

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case, they hold a class two and class three seats.

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This just means, like you said, their elections

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are staggered. Both seats are never up for grabs

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in the exact same year. Which creates that continuous

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overlap. Right. It was designed specifically

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for political stability. For example, Class 2's

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next election is in 2026 and Class 3's is in

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2028. You get that rhythm. Stability is the stated

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goal, sure. But as we're going to see, stable

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is probably the absolute last word you'd use

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to describe some of these terms in office. Fair

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point. But before we get into the pure chaos

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of those footnotes, walk me through the record

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holders. Like who actually makes up this list?

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Sure. So looking at the very start of the roster.

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The first two men to hold these seats back in

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1818 were Jesse B. Thomas, who took the Class

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2 seat, and Ninian Edwards, who took the Class

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3 seat. you know, the trailblazers setting up

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the state's initial footprint in Washington.

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Right. And if we fast forward all the way to

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the end of the table, the current delegation

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representing Illinois consists of two Democrats,

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Dick Durbin and Tammy Duckworth. Durbin has been

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serving since 1997 and Duckworth has been serving

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since 2017. That is a significant amount of time

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for Senator Durbin, stretching across multiple

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presidential administrations. Yeah. But he actually

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doesn't hold the record for the state. Oh, really?

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No. If we look at the metric of pure longevity

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on this list, that title belongs to a man named

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Shelby Moore Cullum. Shelby Moore Cullum. That

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is a fantastic 19th century politician name.

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It really is. How long was he in office? Cullum

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was a Republican who served a massive uninterrupted

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chunk of time. He held his seat from 1883 all

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the way to 1913. Wow. 30 full years in the United

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States Senate. 30 years. I mean, just think about

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the sheer amount of American history that happened

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between 1883 and 1913. The transformation of

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the country during his single tenure is staggering.

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He took office right at the tail end of the Reconstruction

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era, sat through the entire Gilded Age, the turn

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of the 20th century, the Wright brothers taking

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flight. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he left office just

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before the outbreak of World War I. The nation

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completely industrialized, the population exploded,

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and the United States became a global superpower,

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all while Shelby Moore Cullum occupied that one

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specific chair in the Senate chamber. It's fascinating

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to realize how much the world changed outside

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the Capitol building while that one specific

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guy held that one specific seat. Exactly. But

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longevity isn't the only major milestone jumping

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out of this data. I was looking at the demographic

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data in the introduction, and there's a statistic

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about the class three seat that absolutely stopped

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me in my track. It's a big one. Here's where

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it gets really interesting. Yeah. The demographic

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milestones are perhaps the most compelling part

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of the modern era of this list. Since the era

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of Reconstruction ended in the late 19th century,

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there have been a total of eight African -Americans

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to sit in the entire United States Senate. Just

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eight? Eight. across all 50 states over the span

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of more than a century. Which is a profoundly

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small number for the entire nation over that

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time period. A remarkably small number. But the

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specific detail to note regarding Illinois is

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this. Out of those eight African -American senators,

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Three of them have held Illinois' class three

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seat. That concentration is just wild to me.

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Out of the entire country, almost 40 percent

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of the African -American senators since Reconstruction

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have come not just from one state, but from one

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specific staggered electoral cycle in that state.

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Right. That specific fact makes Illinois the

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state with the most African -American senators

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in U .S. history. Yeah. We are talking about

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Carol Moseley Braun, who broke a massive barrier,

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followed later by Barack Obama and then Roland

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Buttis. And obviously the data point for Barack

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Obama carries its own massive historical weight.

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He's elected to the class three seat in 2004,

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takes office in early 2005. And then the list

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just notes that he served until November 2008.

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And the reason for his departure is listed right

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there in the electoral history column. He resigned

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to become the president of the United States.

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Which is presented as such a matter of fact data

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point, like resigned to become U .S. president.

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Just another Tuesday. Right. Just a totally casual

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everyday reason to leave your Senate seat early.

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It is stated very objectively just as another

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piece of administrative data. But taking a step

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back, you realize that this one column of a Wikipedia

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table is quietly tracking major tectonic shifts

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in national leadership and historical representation.

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Yeah. The class three seat in Illinois essentially

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served as the direct launching pad for a historic

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presidency. Absolutely. We're looking at this

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purely through the lens of the data provided.

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And the data tells a story of major national

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milestones happening right there in the class

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three seat. But I want to shift gears now. OK.

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Because while the main table shows us history

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being made, the footnotes. Oh, the footnotes.

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The footnotes are where the drama lives. The

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footnotes are where the veneer of formal parliamentary

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procedure completely breaks down. Completely.

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I think we tend to view 19th and early 20th century

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politics through the sepia toned lens. You know,

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we imagine it was. Very formal, very by the book.

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Men in top hats following strict rules of decorum.

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Yes. But this roster proves that early Illinois

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politics were incredibly chaotic. Let's talk

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about the rule breakers. Walk me through the

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situation with James Shields. James Shields is

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a perfect example of a constitutional technicality

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colliding with pure political audacity. If you

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look at the entry for the class two seat. around

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the year 1849. Shields is listed as being elected.

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OK. But right next to his name, it says election

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voided. So he wins the election, packs his bags

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for Washington. And then what happens? The Senate

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refuses to seat him. The United States Constitution

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has very specific requirements for who can be

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a senator. And one of those requirements is that

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you must have been a United States citizen for

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at least nine years. Shields, an Irish immigrant,

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had not hit that nine year mark yet. You would

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really think that would be something you check

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before you run a statewide campaign for the United

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States Senate. You'd think so. Like, let me just

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check my paperwork. Yeah. Yep. I am legally allowed

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to hold this job. One would assume. But what's

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fascinating here is how strictly literal. the

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early Senate was regarding the rules and also

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how Shields strategically responded to that literalism.

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How so? Well, the Senate didn't banish him from

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politics forever. They just looked at the calendar,

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looked at his citizenship papers and essentially

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said, not yet. The math doesn't work out today.

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Because he was just a few months shy. The footnote

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mentions he officially reached the nine -year

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mark of his citizenship on October 21st, 1849.

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So what happens? He doesn't go home and disgrace.

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He doesn't give up. No. He literally just waits.

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He waits for October 21st to roll around, hits

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his nine -year anniversary of being a citizen,

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and then he is immediately elected to finish

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his own vacant term. It is a brilliant, if slightly

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ridiculous, procedural workaround. It really

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is. The Senate accepted his subsequent election

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because technically on that new date in October,

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he met the constitutional requirement. You filled

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the vacancy that he himself had created by being

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initially ineligible. And he just loved the stubbornness

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of it. I can't sit in this chair today. Fine.

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I'll be back in October. Keep it warm for me.

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Pretty much. It just shows you that the rules

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were the rules, but there's always a loophole

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if you had the patience to exploit it. And if

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you think Shields was stubborn with the federal

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government. We need to discuss the case of Frank

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L. Smith in the 1920s. Oh, boy. This is arguably

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the most bizarre constitutional standoff in the

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entire historical record for the state. Oh, this

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one is wild. This is the infamous double rejection

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set the scene for us in 1926. So think about

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Illinois in the 1920s. It's the Prohibition era,

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the Roaring Twenties, a time of massive political

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machines and, frankly, quite a bit of corruption.

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Right. In December of 1926, a senator named William

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B. McKinley dies just before the end of his term.

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The governor of Illinois appoints Frank L. Smith

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to finish out those last few months. So Smith

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goes to Washington, presents his credentials.

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And the Senate, I assume, rolls out the red carpet.

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The Senate slams the door in his face. They outright

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refuse to seat him. The basis for this refusal

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was that Smith's broader political campaigns

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were, in the Senate's view, rife with fraud and

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corruption. They essentially deemed him too corrupt

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to join the chamber. OK, so the federal government

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says no. The United States Senate draws a hard

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line in the sand. Case closed, right? Far from

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it. Because Smith wasn't just appointed to finish

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the old term. He had also already been elected

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by the voters to the next full six -year term

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that was about to start. Oh, wow. So a few months

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later, in March of 1927, Smith comes right back

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to the Senate. This time, he presents his credentials

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for the freshly elected term. He just walks back

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in and says, try again. What is the Senate's

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response this time? They rejected him a second

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time. Unbelievable. For the exact same reasons.

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They reiterated that the fraud and corruption

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surrounding him made him unfit to serve, and

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they refused to seat him for the elected term

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as well. This is the part that absolutely amazes

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me. The United States Senate explicitly tells

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this man. twice on the official record, you cannot

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be here. And yet, if you look at the roster today,

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Frank L. Smith is included on this list of United

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States senators from Illinois. Why does he get

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to be on the list? Because of sheer, unadulterating

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stubbornness on the state level. Despite the

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Senate refusing to cede him, Smith and the governor

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of Illinois simply considered him to be the rightful

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senator anyway. You're kidding. No, they essentially

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chose to ignore the federal government's ruling.

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So they just stared each other down, the state

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government and the federal government just glaring

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at each other across the country. That is precisely

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what happened. For approximately two years. Smith

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acted under the assumption that he was the senator

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and the governor backed him up from roughly December

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1926 until he finally officially resigned in

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February 1928. He resigned from a job the Senate

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said he never officially had in the first place.

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The historical record has to thread a very fine

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needle here. The footnotes clarify that the Senate

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does not consider him to have been a senator.

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But because he held the credentials from the

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state and occupy this bizarre constitutional

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limbo for two years, history and this list has

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to acknowledge the standoff. It's a constitutional

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crisis hidden in a footnote. It really is. And

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Smith isn't even the only one who had trouble

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actually sitting in the seat he won. Briefly,

00:12:38.330 --> 00:12:41.009
looking back a bit earlier, there's William Lorimer

00:12:41.009 --> 00:12:43.850
in 1909. Right. William Lorimer's case is another

00:12:43.850 --> 00:12:47.289
messy one. He was elected in 1909, but he was

00:12:47.289 --> 00:12:49.230
initially ineligible because he hadn't formally

00:12:49.230 --> 00:12:51.070
resigned from his seat in the U .S. House of

00:12:51.070 --> 00:12:53.149
Representatives yet. Meaning he tried to be a

00:12:53.149 --> 00:12:54.970
senator before he remembered to quit his other

00:12:54.970 --> 00:12:57.490
job in Congress. It was a very chaotic overlap.

00:12:58.029 --> 00:13:00.370
And ultimately, his election was voided altogether

00:13:00.370 --> 00:13:03.149
due to corrupt practices in the state legislature,

00:13:03.389 --> 00:13:05.470
which is how senators were chosen back then,

00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:07.789
before the 17th Amendment established direct

00:13:07.789 --> 00:13:11.470
popular elections. The early 1900s were a particularly

00:13:11.470 --> 00:13:14.210
messy time for Illinois Senate credentials. To

00:13:14.210 --> 00:13:16.929
say the least. But lest you think all these quirky

00:13:16.929 --> 00:13:19.429
administrative anomalies are buried in the distant

00:13:19.429 --> 00:13:21.889
past, you know, wearing bowler hats and riding

00:13:21.889 --> 00:13:25.769
steam trains. Right. Let's jump forward to a

00:13:25.769 --> 00:13:28.509
modern quirk. Let's talk about the year 2010

00:13:28.509 --> 00:13:32.750
and the situation involving Mark Kirk. Walk me

00:13:32.750 --> 00:13:34.649
through what happened here because the logistics

00:13:34.649 --> 00:13:37.470
of this are hilarious. This involves the seat

00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:39.830
that Barack Obama vacated when he became president.

00:13:40.250 --> 00:13:43.809
When Obama resigned in late 2008, Roland Burris

00:13:43.809 --> 00:13:45.990
was appointed to continue the term. But as that

00:13:45.990 --> 00:13:48.850
term was wrapping up in 2010, the state needed

00:13:48.850 --> 00:13:51.210
to hold an election. Right. The anomaly involving

00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:54.450
Mark Kirk is a masterclass in logistical absurdity.

00:13:55.150 --> 00:13:57.350
Kirk ran to fill the remainder of Barack Obama's

00:13:57.350 --> 00:13:59.970
term in a special election. But that special

00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:02.049
election was scheduled to be held on the exact

00:14:02.049 --> 00:14:04.730
same day as a general election for the next full

00:14:04.730 --> 00:14:07.429
six -year term. Okay, let me make sure I'm visualizing

00:14:07.429 --> 00:14:09.450
the reality of this. You're a voter in Illinois

00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:11.970
in November 2010. You walk into your local polling

00:14:11.970 --> 00:14:14.070
place, you get your ballot, and you have to vote

00:14:14.070 --> 00:14:16.049
for Mark Kirk to finish out a term that is almost

00:14:16.049 --> 00:14:19.090
entirely over. And then, on that exact same piece

00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:21.769
of paper... you have to vote for Mark Kirk again

00:14:21.769 --> 00:14:24.389
to start a brand new six -year term. Yeah, it

00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:27.210
is the reality of the situation. He ran for both

00:14:27.210 --> 00:14:29.289
the fractional remainder of the term and the

00:14:29.289 --> 00:14:32.210
full upcoming term simultaneously. And he won

00:14:32.210 --> 00:14:34.389
both elections on the same day. So what does

00:14:34.389 --> 00:14:36.750
this all mean? When we look at James Shields

00:14:36.750 --> 00:14:38.850
sitting around waiting for his citizenship clock

00:14:38.850 --> 00:14:41.929
to run out so he can exploit a loophole, or Frank

00:14:41.929 --> 00:14:43.970
Smith pretending to be a senator for two years

00:14:43.970 --> 00:14:46.590
while the Senate locks him out, or Mark Kirk

00:14:46.590 --> 00:14:48.549
winning two elections for the same job on the

00:14:48.549 --> 00:14:51.330
same Tuesday. Wait, on the same Tuesday? Yeah.

00:14:51.409 --> 00:14:53.210
What does this tell you about how government

00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:55.730
actually functions? It tells you that beneath

00:14:55.730 --> 00:14:58.769
the polished marble exterior of our democratic

00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:01.830
institutions, the actual machinery of government

00:15:01.830 --> 00:15:04.870
is often quite clumsy and human. Yeah. We like

00:15:04.870 --> 00:15:07.429
to think of laws and procedures as rigid mathematical

00:15:07.429 --> 00:15:10.830
formulas. But they're executed by human beings

00:15:10.830 --> 00:15:13.649
and human beings create loopholes. They engage

00:15:13.649 --> 00:15:16.009
in stubborn standoffs and they create logistical

00:15:16.009 --> 00:15:18.350
absurdities like double elections. It really

00:15:18.350 --> 00:15:20.690
is a great reminder that the rules are sometimes

00:15:20.690 --> 00:15:23.309
just strongly worded suggestions until someone

00:15:23.309 --> 00:15:26.429
figures out a creative way around them. But moving

00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:28.590
beyond the quirky loopholes, I want to talk about

00:15:28.590 --> 00:15:31.470
the deeper history embedded here. If we connect

00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:34.309
this to the bigger picture, this entire list

00:15:34.309 --> 00:15:37.629
is actually a mirror of American political evolution.

00:15:38.590 --> 00:15:41.190
If you look at the party affiliations column

00:15:41.190 --> 00:15:44.990
and you trace it chronologically from 1818 to

00:15:44.990 --> 00:15:47.149
the present day, you're not just reading a list

00:15:47.149 --> 00:15:49.769
of names. You are literally watching the shifting

00:15:49.769 --> 00:15:52.129
tectonic plates of American political history

00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:54.889
unfold in real time. I see what you mean, because

00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:57.250
if you look at the early 1800s, there are no

00:15:57.250 --> 00:15:59.629
Democrats or Republicans. The labels are completely

00:15:59.629 --> 00:16:02.870
different. Exactly. In 1818, Jesse B. Thomas

00:16:02.870 --> 00:16:06.409
and Ninian Edwards are listed as Democratic -Republican.

00:16:06.669 --> 00:16:08.429
That reflects the era of good feelings, where

00:16:08.429 --> 00:16:10.250
there was essentially only one major national

00:16:10.250 --> 00:16:12.789
party. Right. But then as you move into the 1820s

00:16:12.789 --> 00:16:15.950
and 1830s, the list shifts. Senators like Elias

00:16:15.950 --> 00:16:18.230
Kane and David J. Baker suddenly appear listed

00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:20.529
as Jacksonian. Reflecting the rise of Andrew

00:16:20.529 --> 00:16:22.570
Jackson and a completely different era of populism.

00:16:22.809 --> 00:16:26.230
Yes. That Jacksonian label represents a massive

00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:29.049
shift towards mass democracy and a fracturing

00:16:29.049 --> 00:16:32.059
of the old political order. Eventually... Those

00:16:32.059 --> 00:16:34.720
labels solidify into the modern Democratic Party.

00:16:34.899 --> 00:16:37.940
But then, right around the 1850s, something dramatic

00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:40.500
happens on the list. The Republican Party suddenly

00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:43.159
appears out of nowhere. With Lyman Trumbull in

00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.120
1855, who actually starts his tenure as a Democrat

00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:48.620
and ends it as a Republican, and then Orville

00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:51.379
Browning in 1861, listed firmly as a Republican.

00:16:51.620 --> 00:16:53.700
That sudden appearance of the Republican Party

00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:56.179
isn't just a random rebranding. That represents

00:16:56.179 --> 00:16:59.220
the complete collapse of the Whig Party. It represents

00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:02.039
the national fracture over the expansion of slavery.

00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.940
When you see those new party labels appear in

00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:07.480
the 1850s, you are looking at the direct lead

00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.079
up to the American Civil War reflected purely

00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.299
in the party shifts of this one state senators.

00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:14.359
It's like looking at the rings of an ancient

00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.759
tree. The party names tell you exactly what the

00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:18.539
political climate was like in the country at

00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:21.279
that exact moment in time. And it keeps evolving

00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.180
after the Civil War. You see John A. Logan listed

00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:28.200
as a liberal Republican in the 1870s, which highlights

00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.299
the post -war fracturing over corruption and

00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:32.500
reconstruction policies. You even have an independent

00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:35.440
making a rare appearance. Oh, really? Yeah, David

00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.960
Davis, who was elected in 1877 and served until

00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.839
1883, showing that even in an era of intense

00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:42.859
partisanship, there was room for disruption.

00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:46.799
dry administrative list is a story of human ambition,

00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:49.579
changing demographics, and massive political

00:17:49.579 --> 00:17:52.500
maneuvering. The source material is just a table,

00:17:52.579 --> 00:17:54.880
but the reality it represents is a constantly

00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.920
shifting battleground of ideas and power. I would

00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.299
highly encourage you, our listener, to go look

00:18:00.299 --> 00:18:02.240
up the historical roster of your own state's

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.359
congressional delegations. You might be shocked

00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:06.200
at what you find buried in the footnotes of your

00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:08.819
own backyard. That is fantastic advice. It makes

00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:11.079
you realize that history isn't just in the textbooks,

00:18:11.259 --> 00:18:15.049
it's hiding in the spreadsheets too. So, as we

00:18:15.049 --> 00:18:17.349
wrap up this journey today, let's look at our

00:18:17.349 --> 00:18:20.269
final takeaways. We started with what looked

00:18:20.269 --> 00:18:23.119
like a cure for insomnia. A Wikipedia list of

00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:26.799
47 names and dates. But by actually unpacking

00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.420
the details, we found incredible insights. We

00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:32.359
learned about the strict, almost comical literalism

00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:35.740
of early citizenship laws with James Shields

00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:38.680
just waiting out the clock. Right. We saw a massive

00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:41.339
historic milestone in diversity with Illinois

00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:43.480
holding the record for the most African -American

00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.500
senators, including a seat that served as a springboard

00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:48.579
to the presidency. And we learned about some

00:18:48.579 --> 00:18:51.700
truly stubborn politicians like. Frank L. Smith,

00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.759
who simply refused to take no for an answer from

00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:56.920
the federal government and created a two -year

00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.400
constitutional standoff. This raises an important

00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.140
question about how we perceive our institutions

00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:03.539
today. We tend to look at the modern government

00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:06.000
and feel frustrated by the gridlock, the procedural

00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.059
quirks, or the messy political maneuvering. We

00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:10.960
often think it shouldn't be this chaotic. Things

00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.180
used to be more refined. Yeah, we totally do.

00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.099
But the data in this list proves that the chaos

00:19:16.099 --> 00:19:19.839
is not new. The quirks. The rule bending and

00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.180
the constitutional game playing are practically

00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:24.019
baked into the system from the very beginning.

00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.160
It really gives you a completely different perspective

00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.460
on the daily news, doesn't it? The names change,

00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.539
but the playbook is centuries old. It certainly

00:19:31.539 --> 00:19:33.779
does. And I want to leave you with a final thought

00:19:33.779 --> 00:19:36.619
to mull over. We have spent this entire time

00:19:36.619 --> 00:19:40.700
looking at just one single state, Illinois, a

00:19:40.700 --> 00:20:06.400
roster of merely 47 people. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man.

00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:09.490
Think. of the wild footnotes waiting to be discovered

00:20:09.490 --> 00:20:11.750
in the early Rhode Island lists or the California

00:20:11.750 --> 00:20:15.089
lists during the gold rush there is a whole world

00:20:15.089 --> 00:20:18.049
of drama out there disguised as boring administrative

00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:20.589
data we want to thank you so much for joining

00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:23.130
us on this deep dive into the sources today it

00:20:23.130 --> 00:20:25.410
has been an absolute blast unpacking this history

00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:27.430
with you and finding the stories hidden in the

00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:30.369
margins until next time keep digging into those

00:20:30.369 --> 00:20:31.930
footnotes and stay curious