WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.980 Welcome to this deep dive today. We have a mission 00:00:02.980 --> 00:00:06.440 that feels particularly timely. Yeah, it really 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:08.560 is. We are looking at a mechanism of government 00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:12.160 that just absolutely dominates headlines. It 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:15.750 generates endless debate yet. the actual fundamental 00:00:15.750 --> 00:00:18.469 mechanics of it are rarely understood. Right. 00:00:18.550 --> 00:00:20.469 The details get completely lost in the noise. 00:00:20.609 --> 00:00:23.629 Exactly. We are talking about impeachment. And 00:00:23.629 --> 00:00:26.429 the promise to you, the listener, is that by 00:00:26.429 --> 00:00:28.809 the end of our time together today, you are going 00:00:28.809 --> 00:00:31.769 to understand exactly how this process works. 00:00:31.929 --> 00:00:34.090 Completely bypassing all the political theater. 00:00:34.289 --> 00:00:37.250 Yes. Bypassing all of that. We've gathered some 00:00:37.250 --> 00:00:39.909 truly fascinating historical records, rules, 00:00:40.109 --> 00:00:42.369 and case studies to pull out the most important 00:00:42.369 --> 00:00:44.950 insights for you. And trust me, there are some 00:00:44.950 --> 00:00:47.310 major aha moments ahead. Oh, absolutely. We'll 00:00:47.310 --> 00:00:49.189 explore how this isn't just a tool for presidents, 00:00:49.409 --> 00:00:52.009 the bizarre paradox of what happens to a convicted 00:00:52.009 --> 00:00:54.390 president's Secret Service detail. That one is 00:00:54.390 --> 00:00:56.729 always a surprise. Right. And how the underlying 00:00:56.729 --> 00:00:59.570 concept for the U .S. system was actually predated 00:00:59.570 --> 00:01:02.780 by a powerful Native American confederacy. It's 00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:05.239 one of those topics that always feels intensely 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:07.959 modern, you know, because it's so tied to the 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:11.019 current news cycle. But its roots run incredibly 00:01:11.019 --> 00:01:13.480 deep. They really do. To start us off, we need 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.560 to establish a foundational reality that completely 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.719 shifts how you view the entire process. When 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:22.099 we talk about impeachment, we have to recognize 00:01:22.099 --> 00:01:25.900 that it is a purely remedial process. It is, 00:01:25.980 --> 00:01:29.370 it's not punitive. Which almost sounds like a 00:01:29.370 --> 00:01:32.150 semantic legal technicality, but it's really 00:01:32.150 --> 00:01:34.430 the core of the whole concept, isn't it? Precisely. 00:01:34.530 --> 00:01:37.609 The goal of impeachment is not to punish an individual 00:01:37.609 --> 00:01:40.909 for a crime. The remedy is strictly limited to 00:01:40.909 --> 00:01:43.629 removing them from their position of power. So 00:01:43.629 --> 00:01:45.209 it's not about putting someone in handcuffs? 00:01:45.370 --> 00:01:47.109 No, not at all. If you want to think about it 00:01:47.109 --> 00:01:49.670 in everyday terms, it is essentially a high -level 00:01:49.670 --> 00:01:51.950 civil service termination. It's a firing. Just 00:01:51.950 --> 00:01:54.599 a really complicated firing. Exactly. It is not 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:56.659 a criminal trial. You aren't going to go to federal 00:01:56.659 --> 00:01:58.280 prison just because you were convicted in the 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:01.180 Senate impeachment trial. The entire architecture 00:02:01.180 --> 00:02:03.900 of the process is designed to protect the public 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:06.459 from an official whose conduct has rendered them 00:02:06.459 --> 00:02:09.360 unfit for office. Rather than to exact criminal 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:11.280 justice upon that official. Right. It's about 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:13.180 protecting the office, not punishing the person. 00:02:13.340 --> 00:02:16.000 Okay, let's unpack this. Starting with the foundational 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:19.360 rules of the federal process. Because the federal 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:22.439 playbook is a very specific three -step dance. 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:25.580 A very deliberate dance, yeah. Step one is often 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:28.280 an optional House inquiry. This is where the 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:30.419 House of Representatives essentially investigates 00:02:30.419 --> 00:02:32.879 to see if there is even enough smoke. to look 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.159 for fire. Right. Gathering the initial evidence. 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:37.919 Then step two is the actual impeachment vote. 00:02:38.180 --> 00:02:40.759 And this is a crucial distinction for you to 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:43.659 keep in mind. Just being impeached does not mean 00:02:43.659 --> 00:02:46.539 you are removed from office. Not at all. It simply 00:02:46.539 --> 00:02:48.439 means the House of Representatives has passed 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:50.639 articles of impeachment by a simple majority 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.419 vote. Right. If we use the criminal justice system 00:02:53.419 --> 00:02:56.389 as a loose analogy. Even though we just established 00:02:56.389 --> 00:02:58.650 this isn't a criminal process. Right. Heavy emphasis 00:02:58.650 --> 00:03:01.569 on loose analogy there. Exactly. Being impeached 00:03:01.569 --> 00:03:03.669 by the House is essentially the equivalent of 00:03:03.669 --> 00:03:06.250 being indicted by a grand jury. It just means 00:03:06.250 --> 00:03:08.090 the formal charges have been brought forward 00:03:08.090 --> 00:03:10.729 to answer for. Exactly. And once those charges 00:03:10.729 --> 00:03:12.710 are brought, the House selects House managers. 00:03:13.030 --> 00:03:15.210 Who basically step into the role of prosecutors. 00:03:15.270 --> 00:03:18.129 Yes. They take the case across the Capitol building 00:03:18.129 --> 00:03:20.490 over to the Senate for step three, which is the 00:03:20.490 --> 00:03:23.870 trial. The Senate acts as the jury. But the mass 00:03:23.870 --> 00:03:26.330 change is completely here. It does. Unlike the 00:03:26.330 --> 00:03:28.909 House, which only needs a simple majority to 00:03:28.909 --> 00:03:32.389 impeach, the Senate requires a two -thirds supermajority 00:03:32.389 --> 00:03:35.469 of the members present to actually convict. It 00:03:35.469 --> 00:03:37.770 is a massive hurdle to clear by design. And that 00:03:37.770 --> 00:03:39.810 naturally leads to the question of who exactly 00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:43.229 is subject to this entire ordeal. The U .S. Constitution 00:03:43.229 --> 00:03:46.389 is specific, but it also leaves some glaring 00:03:46.389 --> 00:03:49.819 gray areas. As it often does. Right. It states 00:03:49.819 --> 00:03:51.659 that the president, the vice president, and all 00:03:51.659 --> 00:03:54.039 civil officers of the United States shall be 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:57.379 removed from office on impeachment for and conviction 00:03:57.379 --> 00:04:00.680 of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:03.500 misdemeanors. But that phrase, civil officer, 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.360 isn't strictly defined in the text, is it? No, 00:04:06.379 --> 00:04:09.560 it's not. Historically, though, it has been interpreted 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:12.379 to include federal judges and any presidentially 00:04:12.379 --> 00:04:14.740 appointed principal officer, so like a cabinet 00:04:14.740 --> 00:04:17.410 secretary or the head of a major agency. What 00:04:17.410 --> 00:04:19.649 about regular government workers? On the flip 00:04:19.649 --> 00:04:22.990 side, your everyday federal civil service employees, 00:04:23.290 --> 00:04:26.550 the career staff who don't exercise significant 00:04:26.550 --> 00:04:30.029 independent policy authority, they are not subject 00:04:30.029 --> 00:04:32.329 to impeachment. But there is a massive exception 00:04:32.329 --> 00:04:34.990 to that civil officer role that genuinely surprised 00:04:34.990 --> 00:04:37.110 me when we were researching this. The lawmakers 00:04:37.110 --> 00:04:40.029 themselves. Yes. You would logically think that 00:04:40.029 --> 00:04:42.110 senators and representatives, the people literally 00:04:42.110 --> 00:04:44.889 writing the laws, would be at the top of the 00:04:44.889 --> 00:04:47.389 list for impeachment if they engage in misconduct. 00:04:47.490 --> 00:04:50.250 But members of Congress cannot be impeached. 00:04:50.370 --> 00:04:53.610 They are entirely exempt from this specific constitutional 00:04:53.610 --> 00:04:56.529 process. Which is wild to think about. It's a 00:04:56.529 --> 00:04:58.810 fascinating historical precedent, and it was 00:04:58.810 --> 00:05:02.910 set very early on. Back in 1797, the House of 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:05.069 Representatives impeached Senator William Plout 00:05:05.069 --> 00:05:07.810 of Tennessee for allegedly conspiring with the 00:05:07.810 --> 00:05:09.829 British. OK, so they actually tried to do it. 00:05:09.910 --> 00:05:12.370 They did. But when the trial reached the Senate, 00:05:12.509 --> 00:05:15.310 his defense argued that a senator is not a civil 00:05:15.310 --> 00:05:17.230 officer of the United States. And the Senate 00:05:17.230 --> 00:05:20.750 bought that argument. They did. The Senate ultimately 00:05:20.750 --> 00:05:23.550 agreed and dismissed the proceedings for lack 00:05:23.550 --> 00:05:27.870 of jurisdiction. Instead. Congress relies on 00:05:27.870 --> 00:05:30.470 a completely different constitutional mechanism 00:05:30.470 --> 00:05:34.470 to handle its own rogue members. Which is expulsion. 00:05:34.689 --> 00:05:37.829 Exactly. Each chamber has the power to expel 00:05:37.829 --> 00:05:40.430 its own members with a two -thirds vote. Which 00:05:40.430 --> 00:05:42.089 makes a lot of practical sense when you really 00:05:42.089 --> 00:05:44.009 think about it. If the House could impeach senators, 00:05:44.350 --> 00:05:46.910 the two chambers would constantly be weaponizing 00:05:46.910 --> 00:05:49.250 the process against each other to settle partisan 00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:52.350 scores. There'd be endless chaos. Oh. So they 00:05:52.350 --> 00:05:54.089 keep their houses separate. Now let's look at 00:05:54.089 --> 00:05:56.959 the why. You mentioned treason, bribery or other 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.319 high crimes and misdemeanors. Treason and bribery 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.240 are very clearly defined legal concepts. Very 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:04.120 clear. But the Constitution leaves high crimes 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:06.600 and misdemeanors entirely undefined. It is a 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:09.699 constitutional blank check. It really is. Because 00:06:09.699 --> 00:06:12.480 there is no strict statutory definition written 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.519 into the Constitution, a high crime or misdemeanor 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.240 is fundamentally whatever a majority of the House 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.899 of Representatives considers it to be. At a given 00:06:20.899 --> 00:06:22.959 moment in history. Provided they can convince 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:24.680 two thirds of the Senate to agree with them, 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:27.379 of course. Exactly. It relies entirely on the 00:06:27.379 --> 00:06:29.620 interpretation of the legislature. And we actually 00:06:29.620 --> 00:06:31.720 have a very recent example of how the Senate 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:34.680 acts as a filter for that undefined standard. 00:06:34.779 --> 00:06:37.879 Right. The Mayorkas case. Yes. In April 2024, 00:06:38.420 --> 00:06:40.899 the House drafted articles of impeachment against 00:06:40.899 --> 00:06:43.100 Alejandro Mayorkas, the secretary of Homeland 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:46.730 Security. And just to impartially lay out. The 00:06:46.730 --> 00:06:48.750 facts from the source material here. Right. We're 00:06:48.750 --> 00:06:51.189 just looking at the mechanics. The articles accused 00:06:51.189 --> 00:06:54.689 Secretary Mayorkas of willfully and systematically 00:06:54.689 --> 00:06:57.389 refusing to comply with federal immigration laws 00:06:57.389 --> 00:07:00.050 and breaching the public trust. But when the 00:07:00.050 --> 00:07:01.910 case reached the Senate, they didn't even hold 00:07:01.910 --> 00:07:04.769 a full evidentiary trial. No, they didn't. The 00:07:04.769 --> 00:07:07.069 Senate agreed to a point of order, basically 00:07:07.069 --> 00:07:09.509 a procedural motion, to dismiss the articles 00:07:09.509 --> 00:07:11.680 right out of the gate. The majority ruled that 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:13.639 the accusations regarding immigration policy 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:16.300 simply did not allege conduct that rises to the 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:19.180 level of a high crime or misdemeanor under the 00:07:19.180 --> 00:07:21.120 Constitution. So the case was dismissed without 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.500 a conviction? Which perfectly illustrates the 00:07:23.500 --> 00:07:25.819 Senate's role as the ultimate constitutional 00:07:25.819 --> 00:07:29.939 backstop. They alone decide if the charges, even 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:33.899 if entirely true, actually meet that vague threshold 00:07:33.899 --> 00:07:36.850 of a high crime. The ultimate filter. Exactly. 00:07:37.129 --> 00:07:39.370 Now, the ambiguity of the rules doesn't just 00:07:39.370 --> 00:07:41.910 stop at the definition of the offenses. It also 00:07:41.910 --> 00:07:44.310 extends to the timeline, specifically regarding 00:07:44.310 --> 00:07:46.649 when an official can actually be put on trial. 00:07:47.050 --> 00:07:49.329 This might be my favorite part of the history. 00:07:50.029 --> 00:07:53.050 The loopholes. As you're listening to this, imagine 00:07:53.050 --> 00:07:55.970 you're a corrupt official from the 1800s. You 00:07:55.970 --> 00:07:57.790 see the writing on the wall. You know it's coming. 00:07:57.930 --> 00:08:00.069 You know the House is voting to impeach you at 00:08:00.069 --> 00:08:02.620 noon. Can you just sprint to the White House, 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.480 hand in your resignation at 11 .59 and cancel 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:07.560 the whole process? Like trying to beat the H 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:09.819 .R. clock before you get officially fired. Exactly. 00:08:10.420 --> 00:08:13.899 History says absolutely not. In 1876, William 00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:16.420 W. Belknap, the Secretary of War, was caught 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:19.279 in a massive kickback scandal. He literally rushed 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:22.560 to President Ulysses S. Grant in tears to resign 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.000 his office just hours before the House voted 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.220 to impeach him. He really thought resigning would 00:08:27.220 --> 00:08:29.920 strip them of jurisdiction. He did. But the House 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:32.740 impeached him anyway. And the Senate held a specific 00:08:32.740 --> 00:08:35.600 vote, deciding that they still had full jurisdiction 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.620 to try a former official. Even though they ultimately 00:08:38.620 --> 00:08:40.679 acquitted him of the charges in the end. Right. 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:44.600 But the precedent was set. That underlying constitutional 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:48.200 question, whether the legislature can try someone 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:51.379 who is already a private citizen, is a tension 00:08:51.379 --> 00:08:54.460 that has surfaced repeatedly. The text of the 00:08:54.460 --> 00:08:56.620 Constitution is silent on whether an officer 00:08:56.620 --> 00:08:59.759 can be tried after they resign. or their term 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:02.299 naturally ends. But historically, the legislature 00:09:02.299 --> 00:09:05.059 has firmly asserted that they retain that power. 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.960 They have. And that exact tension flared up again 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.639 very recently. Again, looking strictly at the 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:13.559 constitutional mechanics here. The second impeachment 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.299 trial of Donald Trump commenced 20 days after 00:09:16.299 --> 00:09:18.639 his presidential term had expired. Right. The 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.480 House had voted to impeach him while he was still 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:22.679 in office, but the Senate trial itself didn't 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:25.200 begin until he was a private citizen. Just like 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.710 with Belknap. The Senate had to hold a preliminary 00:09:27.710 --> 00:09:30.129 vote on whether trying a former president was 00:09:30.129 --> 00:09:33.990 constitutional. And by a 55 to 45 vote, they 00:09:33.990 --> 00:09:36.850 rejected a motion to dismiss, establishing that 00:09:36.850 --> 00:09:39.529 the trial could proceed. Donald Trump, by the 00:09:39.529 --> 00:09:41.990 way, is also the only federal officer to have 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:45.190 been impeached more than once as of 2025. But 00:09:45.190 --> 00:09:48.110 focusing purely on the mechanics here, the precedent 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:52.090 holds firm. The expiration of a term or a sudden 00:09:52.090 --> 00:09:55.129 resignation does not automatically short -circuit 00:09:55.129 --> 00:09:59.090 a Senate trial. What's fascinating here is why 00:09:59.090 --> 00:10:01.110 the Senate would bother tying up the legislative 00:10:01.110 --> 00:10:03.970 branch to try someone who has already left the 00:10:03.970 --> 00:10:06.330 building. Right. If the primary remedy of impeachment 00:10:06.330 --> 00:10:08.809 is removal from office and the person is already 00:10:08.809 --> 00:10:11.629 gone, what is the point of the trial? It comes 00:10:11.629 --> 00:10:14.610 down to two critical factors. First, establishing 00:10:14.610 --> 00:10:16.950 a formal, permanent historical record of the 00:10:16.950 --> 00:10:18.990 misconduct. Then a second. The potential to trigger 00:10:18.990 --> 00:10:22.110 a secondary penalty, which is permanently barring 00:10:22.110 --> 00:10:24.110 that individual from holding federal office ever 00:10:24.110 --> 00:10:26.990 again. If a resignation canceled the trial, any 00:10:26.990 --> 00:10:28.950 corrupt official could just pull the ripcord 00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:31.330 right before conviction, preserve their political 00:10:31.330 --> 00:10:34.009 viability, and run for office again a few years 00:10:34.009 --> 00:10:36.409 later. You can't use a trap door to escape the 00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:38.169 consequences and then walk right back through 00:10:38.169 --> 00:10:40.850 the front door. Exactly. But speaking of tying 00:10:40.850 --> 00:10:43.230 up the legislative branch, let's talk about the 00:10:43.230 --> 00:10:46.049 logistics of a trial. A full Senate trial takes 00:10:46.049 --> 00:10:49.590 days, sometimes weeks. You have 100 senators 00:10:49.590 --> 00:10:52.529 acting as a jury, which means the entire upper 00:10:52.529 --> 00:10:54.929 chamber grinds to a halt. They aren't passing 00:10:54.929 --> 00:10:57.730 laws. They aren't confirming judges. Right. So 00:10:57.730 --> 00:11:01.230 in the 1980s, the Senate invented a procedural 00:11:01.230 --> 00:11:04.399 shortcut. Impeachment trial committees. A very 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:06.919 bureaucratic solution. Oh, totally. Instead of 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:09.000 the whole Senate sitting through endless days 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.139 of witness testimony and cross examinations, 00:11:11.379 --> 00:11:14.059 they delegate the heavy lifting to a smaller 00:11:14.059 --> 00:11:16.700 committee of senators. That committee compiles 00:11:16.700 --> 00:11:19.080 the evidentiary record and then presents a neat, 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.940 tidy report to the full Senate to review before 00:11:21.940 --> 00:11:24.340 the final vote. It was a measure designed purely 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:27.000 for efficiency. But defendants, as you might 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.110 expect, were fiercely opposed to it. I would 00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:31.649 be, too. They argued that the Constitution explicitly 00:11:31.649 --> 00:11:33.909 says they have a right to be tried by the Senate, 00:11:34.070 --> 00:11:36.350 implying the entire Senate, not a handpicked 00:11:36.350 --> 00:11:38.669 subcommittee. Right. This friction culminated 00:11:38.669 --> 00:11:41.710 in a major 1993 Supreme Court case involving 00:11:41.710 --> 00:11:44.429 an impeached federal district court judge named 00:11:44.429 --> 00:11:47.789 Walter Nixon. And what did he argue? Nixon challenged 00:11:47.789 --> 00:11:50.529 the committee process, arguing it was inherently 00:11:50.529 --> 00:11:53.409 unfair and unconstitutional to convict him without 00:11:53.409 --> 00:11:55.700 the full jury present for the testimony. Wait, 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:57.639 so he takes this all the way to the Supreme Court 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:00.610 and the court's response was essentially. Not 00:12:00.610 --> 00:12:03.230 our problem. The rematch. They ruled that the 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:05.870 federal judiciary could not review these proceedings 00:12:05.870 --> 00:12:08.690 because matters related to impeachment trials 00:12:08.690 --> 00:12:12.309 are a political question. They decided the Constitution 00:12:12.309 --> 00:12:15.809 gives the Senate the sole power to try impeachments, 00:12:15.909 --> 00:12:18.230 meaning the Senate gets to make up its own internal 00:12:18.230 --> 00:12:21.370 rules and the courts will not intervene. That's 00:12:21.370 --> 00:12:22.710 right. Doesn't that mean the Senate operates 00:12:22.710 --> 00:12:25.990 with zero outside oversight during a trial? It 00:12:25.990 --> 00:12:28.029 does. And it represents a profound moment of 00:12:28.029 --> 00:12:31.259 separation of powers. The judicial branch explicitly 00:12:31.259 --> 00:12:34.000 stepped back and acknowledged that impeachment 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.860 is a uniquely legislative function. The oversight 00:12:36.860 --> 00:12:38.759 doesn't come from the courts. It comes from the 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.759 voters who elect the senators. So what does this 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:44.899 all mean when a trial actually concludes and 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:47.559 a verdict is reached? We mentioned earlier that 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:50.879 conviction requires a massive two -thirds supermajority. 00:12:51.389 --> 00:12:53.409 If they hit that number, removal from office 00:12:53.409 --> 00:12:56.190 is automatic and immediate. Yes. But that secondary 00:12:56.190 --> 00:12:58.190 penalty you mentioned earlier, preventing the 00:12:58.190 --> 00:13:01.250 person from ever holding office again, that requires 00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:03.850 an entirely separate vote. And the math on that 00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:06.210 second vote is a critical detail to understand. 00:13:06.470 --> 00:13:09.309 While conviction takes that grueling two -thirds 00:13:09.309 --> 00:13:12.450 supermajority, the disqualification vote only 00:13:12.450 --> 00:13:14.769 requires a simple majority of senators present. 00:13:14.970 --> 00:13:17.809 That is a huge difference. It is. But despite 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:20.600 that significantly lower threshold, The Senate 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.299 has used this disqualification power incredibly 00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:26.220 scaringly. In the entire history of the United 00:13:26.220 --> 00:13:29.340 States, only three individuals have ever been 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:31.179 permanently disqualified from holding future 00:13:31.179 --> 00:13:34.480 office. Only three? Yes. Humphreys, Archibald, 00:13:34.580 --> 00:13:36.620 and Porteus. And all three of them were federal 00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:39.419 judges. Only three people in U .S. history. That 00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:41.700 really puts into perspective how incredibly rare 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:43.940 that secondary penalty actually is. It's the 00:13:43.940 --> 00:13:46.360 ultimate nuclear option. Now, let's talk about 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.600 the perks of the job, specifically for the highest 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:52.539 office. If a president is removed via impeachment, 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.460 what happens to their post -presidency benefits? 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:58.879 The golden parachute, so to speak. Right. Drawing 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.139 from the source material, under the Former Presidents 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:04.159 Act of 1958, a president usually gets a pension, 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:06.860 staff funding, and office space after leaving 00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:09.679 office. But the law specifically states that 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.100 those benefits do not extend to a president whose 00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:15.000 tenure ends via an impeachment conviction. So 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.080 the pension is instantly gone. Instantly gone. 00:14:17.379 --> 00:14:20.700 However, a 2013 amendment to that law created 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:23.820 a really weird paradox. A former president who 00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:26.279 is removed from office is still guaranteed lifetime 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.539 Secret Service protection. Wow. So you lose the 00:14:29.539 --> 00:14:32.500 pension, but you keep the taxpayer funded bodyguards. 00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:35.460 If we connect this to the bigger picture, that 00:14:35.460 --> 00:14:37.700 paradox makes perfect sense. When you remember 00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:40.620 our very first rule, impeachment is not a criminal 00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:43.419 punishment. Right. Because of that, a removed 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:45.740 official doesn't just ride off into the sunset 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:49.059 with their bodyguards. The Constitution explicitly 00:14:49.059 --> 00:14:52.259 states that the convicted party shall nevertheless 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:55.929 be liable and subject to indictment. trial, judgment, 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:59.070 and punishment, according to law. So the legal 00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:01.289 trouble doesn't end with the Senate. Not at all. 00:15:01.370 --> 00:15:03.870 You can be fired by the Senate on a Tuesday and 00:15:03.870 --> 00:15:06.409 immediately indicted by a grand jury and face 00:15:06.409 --> 00:15:08.909 prison time in a regular criminal court on Wednesday. 00:15:09.110 --> 00:15:11.629 That is intense. Furthermore, the president's 00:15:11.629 --> 00:15:14.970 constitutional power to grant pardons explicitly 00:15:14.970 --> 00:15:17.610 states it applies to offenses against the United 00:15:17.610 --> 00:15:21.269 States, except in cases of impeachment. A president 00:15:21.269 --> 00:15:23.929 cannot use a pardon to save themselves or anyone 00:15:23.929 --> 00:15:26.169 else from an impeachment conviction. It is the 00:15:26.169 --> 00:15:28.289 ultimate check and balance. It simply cannot 00:15:28.289 --> 00:15:30.990 be overridden. Exactly. Now, we've spent a lot 00:15:30.990 --> 00:15:33.509 of time analyzing Washington, D .C., but we need 00:15:33.509 --> 00:15:35.629 to pivot and look outside the federal government 00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:38.409 because impeachment isn't just a federal tool. 00:15:38.649 --> 00:15:41.509 No, it is everywhere. Every single state has 00:15:41.509 --> 00:15:44.070 a process for this, but some of them feature 00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:48.389 some truly bizarre structural quirks. Most states 00:15:48.389 --> 00:15:51.019 follow the federal model. The lower legislative 00:15:51.019 --> 00:15:53.659 house impeaches. The upper house holds the trial. 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:57.120 But in Alaska, the script is totally flipped. 00:15:57.340 --> 00:16:00.240 The upper chamber of the state legislature votes 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.279 to impeach, and the lower chamber acts as the 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.440 jury for the trial. Nebraska also operates entirely 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.799 differently, primarily because they have a unicameral 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.120 legislature. Right. Just one house. Since they 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:12.980 only have one legislative chamber, they can't 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.700 split the duties between two houses. So if the 00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:18.159 Nebraska legislature votes to impeach an official, 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.840 the trial itself actually takes place before 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:22.679 the Nebraska Supreme Court. That makes sense. 00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:25.379 Missouri has a somewhat similar setup where the 00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.639 state Supreme Court or a special panel of judges 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:30.679 handles the trial rather than the state senators. 00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:33.159 Here's where it gets really interesting. The 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.720 setup in New York. In New York, the state assembly 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.539 impeaches and the state Senate tries the case, 00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:41.039 which sounds just like the federal model. But 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.240 they also bring in the state's highest constitutional 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.419 court, the New York Court of Appeals. The seven 00:16:46.419 --> 00:16:48.500 judges of that court literally sit alongside 00:16:48.500 --> 00:16:51.480 the state senators and act as jurors. All in 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.840 the same room? Yes. It creates this massive hybrid 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.120 jury of elected lawmakers and appointed judges 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:01.039 sitting in the same room voting on the same verdict. 00:17:01.470 --> 00:17:03.970 It's a fascinating blend of judicial and legislative 00:17:03.970 --> 00:17:06.829 power. And these state -level powers are not 00:17:06.829 --> 00:17:09.170 just hypothetical artifacts. They get used. They 00:17:09.170 --> 00:17:11.910 really do. Historically, at least 11 U .S. state 00:17:11.910 --> 00:17:14.609 governors have faced an impeachment trial. A 00:17:14.609 --> 00:17:17.309 notable modern example was the 2009 impeachment 00:17:17.309 --> 00:17:20.269 of Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich on corruption 00:17:20.269 --> 00:17:22.829 charges. I remember that making huge headlines. 00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:25.890 The Illinois House voted 117 to 1 to impeach 00:17:25.890 --> 00:17:28.130 him, and he was subsequently removed and barred 00:17:28.130 --> 00:17:30.809 from future office by the state Senate. And it's 00:17:30.809 --> 00:17:33.650 not just individuals who can be targeted. Entire 00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:35.970 governing bodies can face the mechanism. Really? 00:17:36.109 --> 00:17:39.269 An entire body? Yes. In 2018, the state of West 00:17:39.269 --> 00:17:41.589 Virginia managed to impeach its entire Supreme 00:17:41.589 --> 00:17:43.829 Court of Appeals over administrative corruption 00:17:43.829 --> 00:17:46.569 and extreme overspending on office renovations. 00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:49.529 Which creates a massive constitutional crisis 00:17:49.529 --> 00:17:52.150 of its own. If you impeach the entire highest 00:17:52.150 --> 00:17:55.450 court in the state, who is left to hear the appeals? 00:17:55.769 --> 00:17:58.130 Exactly. It's a logistical nightmare. But looking 00:17:58.130 --> 00:18:00.829 even further back, the most profound origin story 00:18:00.829 --> 00:18:02.910 for this mechanism doesn't come from a state 00:18:02.910 --> 00:18:05.049 house and it doesn't come from the founding fathers 00:18:05.049 --> 00:18:07.509 in Philadelphia. It comes from the Iroquois. 00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:11.019 or Hananasani Confederacy. Yes. The Iroquois 00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:14.400 Confederacy's great law of peace actually predates 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.519 the United States Constitution by centuries, 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.680 and it includes a mechanism that is fundamentally 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:23.319 an impeachment process. That is so cool. Under 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:26.279 this law, a sachem, which is a chief or leader, 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:29.440 can be removed and replaced for misdeeds or failing 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.259 the people. But what is truly brilliant about 00:18:32.259 --> 00:18:34.700 this historical system is the division of power. 00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:37.609 How does it work? You have the male chiefs executing 00:18:37.609 --> 00:18:39.849 the day -to -day leadership, but the ultimate 00:18:39.849 --> 00:18:42.369 accountability, the power to initiate the removal 00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:45.130 process, is held exclusively by the women of 00:18:45.130 --> 00:18:47.710 the tribe, specifically the clan mothers. It's 00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:50.150 a beautifully engineered matriarchal check on 00:18:50.150 --> 00:18:52.730 patriarchal power. The men hold the title, but 00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:55.710 the women hold the accountability. It is incredibly 00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:58.710 balanced. If a leader strays, the women give 00:18:58.710 --> 00:19:01.410 warnings, and ultimately they can strip him of 00:19:01.410 --> 00:19:05.000 his title. It is incredible to see the deep native 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.299 roots of holding leaders accountable on this 00:19:07.299 --> 00:19:09.880 continent long before European Enlightenment 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:12.059 philosophers were writing about separation of 00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:14.980 powers. And this mechanism is still highly active 00:19:14.980 --> 00:19:17.960 in modern tribal governments today. Yes, it is. 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.559 Many tribes use a bifurcated process very similar 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:23.720 to the federal government. There are some intense 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.859 modern examples, too. Like what? Well, there 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:30.000 was the 1975 attempt to impeach Dick Wilson, 00:19:30.259 --> 00:19:31.980 the chairman of the Oglala of the Pine Ridge 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:34.420 Indian Reservation, which was an event that immediately 00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:37.240 preceded the famous Wounded Knee Occupation. 00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:40.819 Wow, so high stakes. Very. Or Cecilia Firethunder, 00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:43.059 the president of the Oglala Sioux, who was impeached 00:19:43.059 --> 00:19:45.859 three separate times in 2005 and 2006 before 00:19:45.859 --> 00:19:48.119 finally being removed on the third attempt. We 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:50.539 even see this power utilized at the most local 00:19:50.539 --> 00:19:52.700 levels of governance. Municipal governments, 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.420 like city councils, often have the charter power 00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:57.640 to impeach mayors. It really goes all the way 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:00.200 down. A classic historical example is Philip 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.079 Tompert, who was removed as the mayor of Louisville, 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:05.819 Kentucky, by the city's board of aldermen way 00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:09.299 back in 1865. It even filters all the way down 00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:12.019 to university student councils. It's not uncommon 00:20:12.019 --> 00:20:15.119 for student body presidents at major universities 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.980 to face impeachment proceedings from their student 00:20:17.980 --> 00:20:20.839 senates over budget disputes or conduct violations. 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.740 It really is a universal concept. So taking a 00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:25.880 step back to synthesize everything we've covered 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:48.200 today, impeachment is a It serves as the ultimate 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:51.339 emergency brake on runaway power. Exactly. This 00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:53.619 raises an important question. And it's a thought 00:20:53.619 --> 00:20:55.670 I think you should mull over as you... leave 00:20:55.670 --> 00:20:58.369 this deep dive. We've seen that the US Constitution 00:20:58.369 --> 00:21:01.609 completely leaves the definition of high crimes 00:21:01.609 --> 00:21:04.029 and misdemeanors up to the interpretation of 00:21:04.029 --> 00:21:06.250 the legislature. A total blank check. Right. 00:21:06.349 --> 00:21:08.529 And we've seen that the Supreme Court explicitly 00:21:08.529 --> 00:21:11.740 refuses to intervene. Calling the trial process 00:21:11.740 --> 00:21:14.339 a purely political question. Yeah. Given how 00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:17.019 incredibly rare it is for this process to actually 00:21:17.019 --> 00:21:19.839 result in a conviction and permanent disqualification 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.940 at the highest levels, does the true power of 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:25.960 impeachment actually lie in the physical removal 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:28.339 of a politician? Or does it lie somewhere else? 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:32.799 Exactly. Or does its true power lie in the constant 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.859 looming threat of the process itself? Perhaps 00:21:35.859 --> 00:21:38.720 the mere existence of this mechanism, hanging 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:40.960 over the heads of civil officers every single 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.880 day, serves to keep leaders in check far more 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.079 effectively than the rare highly publicized trial 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:49.650 ever could. That is a phenomenal point to reflect 00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:51.990 on. Is the emergency brake more useful because 00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:54.009 you occasionally pull it or just because everyone 00:21:54.009 --> 00:21:56.390 in the car knows it's there? Thank you so much 00:21:56.390 --> 00:21:58.549 for joining us on this deep dive. We hope you 00:21:58.549 --> 00:22:00.829 walk away with a much clearer understanding of 00:22:00.829 --> 00:22:03.009 the constitutional mechanics that drive the headlines. 00:22:03.289 --> 00:22:05.289 Keep questioning the structures of the world 00:22:05.289 --> 00:22:07.450 around you. Keep looking for the history behind 00:22:07.450 --> 00:22:09.589 the noise. And we will catch you on the next 00:22:09.589 --> 00:22:10.109 deep dive.