WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.240 Welcome to the Deep Dive. We are really thrilled 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:05.040 to have you with us today. Absolutely. It's great 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:07.379 to be here. Our mission for this session is to 00:00:07.379 --> 00:00:10.259 look at exactly how a remarkably small group, 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:13.419 I mean just 22 senators, acts as the primary 00:00:13.419 --> 00:00:15.900 gatekeeper for America's relationship with the 00:00:15.900 --> 00:00:18.820 rest of the world. It is a very exclusive club. 00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:22.339 It really is. Our topic today is the United States 00:00:22.339 --> 00:00:24.600 Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Right. 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:27.399 We're basing this conversation on a comprehensive 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:31.059 Wikipedia article that details its vast history, 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:34.700 its institutional structure, and the people who 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:36.679 have walked through its doors over the centuries. 00:00:36.859 --> 00:00:38.859 There's a lot of history there. Oh, totally. 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:41.820 Because, you know, you might think you know how 00:00:41.820 --> 00:00:44.460 foreign policy is made. Usually we picture the 00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:46.359 president signing a document or the military 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:48.479 taking action. Yeah, the executive branch gets 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:51.240 all the spotlight. Exactly. But the outsized 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:54.119 influence this specific room holds is just staggering. 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:56.840 Just to put it in perspective for you listening, 00:00:57.020 --> 00:01:01.200 since its creation, this single committee has 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.280 produced eight United States presidents. Eight. 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:07.840 We are talking about Andrew Jackson, James Buchanan, 00:01:08.019 --> 00:01:11.140 Andrew Johnson, Benjamin Harrison, Warren Harding, 00:01:11.180 --> 00:01:14.760 John F. Kennedy, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden. 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:18.500 Wow. And both Buchanan and Biden actually served 00:01:18.500 --> 00:01:21.939 as committee chairs. Which is an incredibly powerful 00:01:21.939 --> 00:01:25.120 position. Right. And on top of that. It has produced 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.620 19 secretaries of state. It really is a kingmaker 00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:31.480 of a committee. And just as a quick note for 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:33.859 you listening, as we track this history, we are 00:01:33.859 --> 00:01:36.159 going to be covering figures from across the 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.799 entire political spectrum. We'll be looking at 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:40.859 the actions of staunch conservatives, liberal 00:01:40.859 --> 00:01:44.079 Democrats and everyone in between. Our goal today 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:46.459 isn't to take a side on any of these historical 00:01:46.459 --> 00:01:49.459 policies or endorse specific political viewpoints. 00:01:49.500 --> 00:01:51.680 Right. No sides here. Exactly. We just want to 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:53.540 look under the hood at how this committee actually 00:01:53.540 --> 00:01:56.319 functioned, analyzing the historical facts, the 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:58.230 structure. changes and the documented actions 00:01:58.230 --> 00:02:00.530 just as they are laid out in the source text. 00:02:00.750 --> 00:02:02.650 Exactly. We just want to figure out how the machine 00:02:02.650 --> 00:02:05.370 works. Okay, let's unpack this. What does it 00:02:05.370 --> 00:02:07.930 actually do on a day -to -day basis? Well, they 00:02:07.930 --> 00:02:10.330 have a surprisingly broad portfolio. It seems 00:02:10.330 --> 00:02:12.229 like a mix between, I don't know, a diplomatic 00:02:12.229 --> 00:02:14.930 bouncer and a chief architect. That's a great 00:02:14.930 --> 00:02:17.150 way to put it. Right, because they authorize 00:02:17.150 --> 00:02:20.110 foreign aid programs, approve arms sales, oversee 00:02:20.110 --> 00:02:23.389 the training of national allies, and hold confirmation 00:02:23.389 --> 00:02:26.150 hearings for high -level positions in the Department 00:02:26.150 --> 00:02:28.310 of State. Yeah, those confirmation hearings are 00:02:28.310 --> 00:02:31.710 huge. But the detail that really stood out to 00:02:31.710 --> 00:02:34.909 me is their treaty power. Oh, yes. It is the 00:02:34.909 --> 00:02:37.729 only Senate committee that deliberates and reports 00:02:37.729 --> 00:02:40.669 treaties. If the United States is going to make 00:02:40.669 --> 00:02:43.169 a binding agreement with another nation, it has 00:02:43.169 --> 00:02:46.159 to go through these 22 people first. That treaty 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.659 power is the absolute core of their influence. 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.259 And when we say they report treaties, that's 00:02:51.259 --> 00:02:53.699 a crucial procedural step. Right. What does that 00:02:53.699 --> 00:02:56.719 actually mean in practice? It means that after 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:59.080 the president negotiates a treaty, it goes straight 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:01.479 to this committee. If they don't report it out. 00:03:01.580 --> 00:03:03.539 Meaning they just hold on to it. Yeah. Meaning 00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:05.740 if they don't formally send it to the full Senate 00:03:05.740 --> 00:03:08.840 floor for a vote, that treaty is effectively 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:11.800 dead in the water. They are the ultimate bottleneck. 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:14.960 There's a brilliant historical artifact from 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.620 our source that captures exactly how this feels 00:03:17.620 --> 00:03:22.219 to outsiders. Oh, the 1943 memo. Exactly. Back 00:03:22.219 --> 00:03:25.020 in 1943, a British scholar named Isaiah Berlin 00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:27.900 wrote a confidential analysis of this committee 00:03:27.900 --> 00:03:30.120 for the British Foreign Office. He was trying 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:32.099 to explain to the UK government what they were 00:03:32.099 --> 00:03:34.419 up against. Right. Berlin wrote that the committee 00:03:34.419 --> 00:03:37.219 keeps a close watch on foreign policy, not merely 00:03:37.219 --> 00:03:39.800 in theory, but in practice. That distinction 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:42.719 between theory and practice is huge. It really 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:44.879 is. It implies they aren't just sitting around 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:47.300 debating philosophy, right? They're actively 00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:50.000 pulling the levers. Precisely. Berlin warned 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.080 his government that the committee's power goes 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.159 far beyond the famous two -thirds majority needed 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:57.300 for treaty ratification. Because they hold all 00:03:57.300 --> 00:03:59.139 these other cards. Right. Because they control 00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:01.599 the underlying legislation, they hold veto power 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:04.060 over ambassadors, and they have this massive 00:04:04.060 --> 00:04:07.099 megaphone to influence public opinion. Berlin 00:04:07.099 --> 00:04:09.180 concluded that the committee has it in its power 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:11.819 to alter, delay, and, under certain political 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:15.360 circumstances, to veto almost any piece of major 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:19.230 policy in this field. To hold a veto over almost 00:04:19.230 --> 00:04:23.129 any major piece of foreign policy, that is an 00:04:23.129 --> 00:04:26.069 immense amount of concentrated power. It is staggering 00:04:26.069 --> 00:04:27.970 when you think about it. But if you're listening 00:04:27.970 --> 00:04:30.009 right now, you might be wondering why a committee 00:04:30.009 --> 00:04:33.810 set up way back in 1816 matters to your life 00:04:33.810 --> 00:04:36.310 today. A very fair question. If we look at the 00:04:36.310 --> 00:04:40.829 119th Congress. As of March 2026, the scope of 00:04:40.829 --> 00:04:42.949 what they consider foreign relations has just 00:04:42.949 --> 00:04:45.949 exploded. It really has. We tend to think of 00:04:45.949 --> 00:04:48.129 foreign policy as just drawing lines on a map 00:04:48.129 --> 00:04:50.730 or negotiating peace treaties. Right. Old guys 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:53.610 in suits pointing at globes. Exactly. But if 00:04:53.610 --> 00:04:55.290 you look at their current subcommittees, they 00:04:55.290 --> 00:04:57.329 are tackling issues that affect our daily lives 00:04:57.329 --> 00:04:59.459 directly. If you are concerned about international 00:04:59.459 --> 00:05:02.100 cybersecurity and the safety of digital infrastructure, 00:05:02.500 --> 00:05:04.459 there is a subcommittee for that. Which impacts 00:05:04.459 --> 00:05:06.959 literally everyone with a smartphone. Yep. If 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:09.779 you care about global health pandemics, transnational 00:05:09.779 --> 00:05:12.120 crime, civilian security, or even international 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.660 energy policy, this committee oversees it. The 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:18.259 modern world is so interconnected that domestic 00:05:18.259 --> 00:05:21.120 issues are almost always foreign policy issues 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:23.439 now. And who is actually wielding this power 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:25.639 right now? Well, the makeup shifts, of course. 00:05:25.779 --> 00:05:28.699 Right. So in the 119th Congress, there are 22 00:05:28.699 --> 00:05:31.720 members in total. You have 12 Republicans in 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.339 the majority and 10 Democrats in the minority. 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:36.939 It is currently chaired by Republican Senator 00:05:36.939 --> 00:05:40.120 Jim Risch of Idaho, with Democratic Senator Gene 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:42.779 Shaheen of New Hampshire serving as the ranking 00:05:42.779 --> 00:05:45.279 member. And for those unfamiliar with the committee 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:48.399 hierarchy. The ranking member is simply the highest 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:50.480 ranking member of the minority party. Just to 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:52.439 keep things somewhat balanced. Right. It ensures 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:54.759 there is a designated leader for the opposition, 00:05:54.939 --> 00:05:58.420 creating at least a framework for bipartisan 00:05:58.420 --> 00:06:01.220 oversight, even if the majority party holds the 00:06:01.220 --> 00:06:03.500 ultimate gavel. Right. And you see that structure 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:05.839 applied across all these specialized subcommittees 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:07.720 we mentioned. You do. You have the Subcommittee 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:10.339 on East Asia, the Pacific, and International 00:06:10.339 --> 00:06:13.160 Cybersecurity Policy, chaired by Pete Ricketts. 00:06:13.779 --> 00:06:15.480 Then you have another one dealing with the Western 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:25.250 Hemisphere. It's a massive umbrella. It really 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:27.949 just highlights how they are dealing with incredibly 00:06:27.949 --> 00:06:31.990 complex, interconnected, modern crises. So if 00:06:31.990 --> 00:06:35.069 their jurisdiction is this massive today, how 00:06:35.069 --> 00:06:37.529 did they build this sprawling empire? That is 00:06:37.529 --> 00:06:39.670 a fascinating story. Was the committee always 00:06:39.670 --> 00:06:42.230 this expansive? Not at all. For a long time, 00:06:42.269 --> 00:06:45.060 their focus was much narrower. To understand 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:47.019 how they expanded their reach, we actually have 00:06:47.019 --> 00:06:49.500 to look at a very specific window of time, roughly 00:06:49.500 --> 00:06:53.420 between 1887 and 1907. Here's where it gets really 00:06:53.420 --> 00:06:56.879 interesting. It does. During this era, a Democratic 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:59.459 senator from Alabama named John Tyler Morgan 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:02.350 played a leading role on the committee. Morgan 00:07:02.350 --> 00:07:05.129 had some massively ambitious projects in mind. 00:07:05.209 --> 00:07:07.209 What kind of projects? He was aggressively pushing 00:07:07.209 --> 00:07:09.569 for a canal linking the Atlantic and Pacific 00:07:09.569 --> 00:07:12.509 Oceans, a massive enlargement of the merchant 00:07:12.509 --> 00:07:15.250 marine and the Navy, and the acquisition of new 00:07:15.250 --> 00:07:17.910 territories like Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, 00:07:18.189 --> 00:07:20.529 and Cuba. That sounds like a literal blueprint 00:07:20.529 --> 00:07:22.629 for an empire. That's essentially what it was. 00:07:22.829 --> 00:07:26.079 But why was a senator... From a post -reconstruction 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:29.220 southern state pushing so hard for global expansion, 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:32.300 what was driving that specific agenda? If we 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:34.079 connect this to the bigger picture, it wasn't 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.639 about high -minded diplomacy or some desire to 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.500 spread democratic ideals. The motivations were 00:07:39.500 --> 00:07:42.600 fundamentally economic. Money, of course. Always. 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.540 Morgan was looking directly at his home state 00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:48.699 of Alabama. At the time, Alabama was a major 00:07:48.699 --> 00:07:51.980 producer of cotton, coal, iron, and timber. Heavy 00:07:51.980 --> 00:07:55.089 industry and agriculture. Exactly. Morgan realized 00:07:55.089 --> 00:07:57.509 that the domestic market just wasn't enough to 00:07:57.509 --> 00:08:01.139 absorb all of that. To turn those local raw resources 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:04.759 into immense global wealth, Alabama needed new 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:07.720 export markets, specifically in Latin America 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:10.319 and Asia. Wait, so all of this grand diplomatic 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:13.259 maneuvering, building a global empire, was actually 00:08:13.259 --> 00:08:15.779 just an economic strategy to sell more Alabama 00:08:15.779 --> 00:08:18.480 cotton and coal? Exactly that. But think about 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.439 the logistics. To get those goods to Asia cheaply 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:23.300 and efficiently, you need a canal through Central 00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:25.660 America. Okay, the Panama Canal makes sense now. 00:08:25.779 --> 00:08:28.360 Right, but then to protect those new vital traders, 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.040 routes, you need a larger navy. And to refuel 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:33.379 and resupply that larger navy, you need island 00:08:33.379 --> 00:08:35.480 territories in the Pacific and the Caribbean. 00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:38.659 It is wild to see how that domino effect works. 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:41.059 Just, okay, we want to sell cotton, therefore 00:08:41.059 --> 00:08:44.000 we need Hawaii. It sounds absurd when you boil 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.980 it down, but that was the logic. By 1905, just 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:50.059 a few years later, almost all of Morgan's ambitions 00:08:50.059 --> 00:08:52.740 had been realized. He really had. The canal was 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:55.120 secured, though it ended up going through Panama 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:57.440 instead of his initial preference of Nicaragua. 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:01.519 Right. The military was massively enlarged, and 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:04.500 the global map was completely redrawn with the 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:08.000 acquisitions of those exact territories. The 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.559 economic dreams of one state, channeled through 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.120 this specific committee, physically reshaped 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:15.740 global trade and borders. It perfectly illustrates 00:09:15.740 --> 00:09:18.080 what happens when the committee's ambitions align 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.940 with the expanding industrial goals of the United 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:23.620 States as a whole. They essentially enabled the 00:09:23.620 --> 00:09:26.139 building of an empire. But holding that kind 00:09:26.139 --> 00:09:28.559 of unchecked influence didn't last forever. When 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:30.559 you get to a global crisis like World War II, 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:34.399 the dynamic completely flips. The committee doesn't 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:36.240 just enable the executive branch anymore. They 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:40.259 find themselves acting. What caused that shift? 00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:43.100 Why did the Senate suddenly find itself on the 00:09:43.100 --> 00:09:45.960 outside looking in during the war? It came down 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.740 to the nature of a global existential conflict. 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:52.179 During World War II, President Franklin D. Roosevelt 00:09:52.179 --> 00:09:54.980 and the military brass were essentially running 00:09:54.980 --> 00:09:57.570 the show. moving fast and breaking things. Exactly. 00:09:57.950 --> 00:10:00.690 They were making rapid, monumental decisions 00:10:00.690 --> 00:10:03.850 with allied leaders, and Congress was largely 00:10:03.850 --> 00:10:06.809 kept in a state of ignorance. The traditional 00:10:06.809 --> 00:10:09.330 deliberative process of the Senate Foreign Relations 00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:12.429 Committee was completely sidelined. And I imagine 00:10:12.429 --> 00:10:15.429 a group of 22 highly influential senators did 00:10:15.429 --> 00:10:17.870 not take kindly to being benched. No, they were 00:10:17.870 --> 00:10:20.570 deeply frustrated. But rather than just complaining, 00:10:20.750 --> 00:10:23.389 they made a strategic pivot. What did they do? 00:10:23.509 --> 00:10:25.409 The committee decided they were going to reject 00:10:25.409 --> 00:10:28.070 the traditional American stance of isolationism. 00:10:28.289 --> 00:10:30.370 Under the leadership of figures like Republican 00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:33.409 Senator Arthur Vandenberg, they took the initiative 00:10:33.409 --> 00:10:36.210 to design a brand new internationalist foreign 00:10:36.210 --> 00:10:39.289 policy for the post -war world. Okay, this is 00:10:39.289 --> 00:10:41.149 where the United Nations comes into play, right? 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:43.669 Yes. They started pushing for a new global organization 00:10:43.669 --> 00:10:47.370 to replace the old discredited League of Nations. 00:10:47.929 --> 00:10:51.720 But wait. Was pushing for the U .N. really about 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:54.740 ensuring global peace or was it just a power 00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:57.340 grab by a Senate committee tired of being ignored 00:10:57.340 --> 00:10:59.639 by the president? Honestly, it was undeniably 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:02.580 a mix of both. Really? Yeah. They genuinely recognize 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:05.039 that the United States could no longer hide behind 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.580 its oceans. The world had changed. But there 00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:11.580 is also a very explicit. Self -interested concern 00:11:11.580 --> 00:11:14.860 at play. Job security. You could call it that. 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:17.259 The committee insisted that Congress must play 00:11:17.259 --> 00:11:20.700 a central role in post -war foreign policy. By 00:11:20.700 --> 00:11:22.740 legally tying the United States to a permanent 00:11:22.740 --> 00:11:24.940 international body like the UN, which requires 00:11:24.940 --> 00:11:27.139 treaties, funding, and confirmed ambassadors, 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:29.559 they were guaranteeing that the executive branch 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:31.879 could never shut them out again. Wow. They were 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:34.059 permanently cementing their own seat at the table. 00:11:34.220 --> 00:11:36.519 They essentially built a global institution that 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:38.580 structurally required their ongoing permission 00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:41.440 to function. Yes, they did. That is brilliant 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.399 political maneuvering. Yeah. And that demand 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.320 for control only seemed to intensify as the Cold 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:49.700 War set in. It did. And the Cold War shows us 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:52.120 a different side of the committee's power. They 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.940 didn't just pass laws or ratify treaties. They 00:11:54.940 --> 00:11:57.019 started using their platform to fundamentally 00:11:57.019 --> 00:11:59.700 change the American public narrative. How so? 00:11:59.899 --> 00:12:02.419 Well, a perfect example of this took place in 00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:05.840 1966, right as the Vietnam War was escalating. 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.559 The committee was chaired at the time by Democratic 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:12.000 Senator J. William Fulbright. Fulbright. Yeah. 00:12:12.100 --> 00:12:14.679 He decided to set up formal hearings on relations 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:17.559 with communist China. Exactly. At the height 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:20.100 of Cold War tensions, with a war raging in Vietnam, 00:12:20.379 --> 00:12:23.539 holding hearings on communist China sounds incredibly 00:12:23.539 --> 00:12:26.500 provocative. What was he trying to achieve? He 00:12:26.500 --> 00:12:29.259 was trying to break a diplomatic freeze. Fulbright 00:12:29.259 --> 00:12:31.700 brought in academic specialists on East Asia 00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:34.440 to testify. These weren't just politicians arguing. 00:12:34.580 --> 00:12:36.960 These were experts systematically making a case 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.340 directly to the American public. What's fascinating 00:12:39.340 --> 00:12:41.320 here is what they actually argued, right? Yes. 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:42.899 What's fascinating here is they introduced a 00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:45.360 concept they called containment without isolation. 00:12:46.009 --> 00:12:48.049 Containment without isolation. What did that 00:12:48.049 --> 00:12:50.669 actually mean in practice? It meant acknowledging 00:12:50.669 --> 00:12:54.049 reality. The argument was that the United States 00:12:54.049 --> 00:12:56.309 could continue to resist the spread of communism. 00:12:56.330 --> 00:12:58.769 That's the containment part without pretending 00:12:58.769 --> 00:13:00.929 that the massive government in Beijing didn't 00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:02.629 exist. Right. Because before that, we just kind 00:13:02.629 --> 00:13:04.929 of ignored them officially. Exactly. They were 00:13:04.929 --> 00:13:07.149 arguing that you can still talk to your adversary. 00:13:07.230 --> 00:13:09.549 You can have diplomatic channels and perhaps 00:13:09.549 --> 00:13:12.549 even trade without endorsing their ideology. 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:15.480 And did these hearings actually move the needle 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.740 with the public? I mean, people were pretty entrenched. 00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:21.179 Massively. These hearings facilitated a measurable 00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:24.240 shift in American public opinion, moving it away 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:26.600 from outright hostility and toward a cautious 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.320 willingness to cooperate. That's huge. And that 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:32.120 public shift provided the exact political runway 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.559 that Richard Nixon needed a few years later to 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.379 discard strict containment and begin a policy 00:13:37.379 --> 00:13:40.600 of detente with China. which means an easing 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.200 of strained relations. So the committee essentially 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.500 warmed up the crowd so the president could eventually 00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:48.059 walk out and shake hands. That's a perfect analogy. 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:50.879 But recognizing the Beijing government created 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:55.220 a massive new diplomatic puzzle. If you formally 00:13:55.220 --> 00:13:58.120 recognize Beijing, how do you simultaneously 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.100 deal with the Chinese government on Taiwan, which 00:14:01.100 --> 00:14:03.169 the U .S. had been supporting? It is one of the 00:14:03.169 --> 00:14:05.549 most complex balancing acts in modern diplomacy. 00:14:05.750 --> 00:14:07.970 And the executive branch struggled with it. So 00:14:07.970 --> 00:14:10.509 the committee stepped in. They drafted the Taiwan 00:14:10.509 --> 00:14:14.070 Relations Act of 1979. How does a piece of legislation 00:14:14.070 --> 00:14:17.330 actually solve that? How do you write a law that 00:14:17.330 --> 00:14:20.320 threads that impossible needle? The act essentially 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.360 created a legal framework for an unofficial relationship. 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.379 It allowed the United States to formally recognize 00:14:26.379 --> 00:14:29.559 Beijing as the sole legal government of China, 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.120 while at the same time mandating that the U .S. 00:14:32.139 --> 00:14:35.059 maintain robust, unofficial relations with Taiwan, 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.200 including selling them defensive weapons. That's 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:40.059 quite the workaround. It really is. The committee 00:14:40.059 --> 00:14:42.259 literally wrote the specific legal code that 00:14:42.259 --> 00:14:44.220 allowed the United States to have it both ways, 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.240 a policy architecture that is still holding that 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.649 region together today. That shows incredible 00:14:48.649 --> 00:14:51.649 finesse. So what does this all mean when they 00:14:51.649 --> 00:14:53.509 don't want to be subtle? What happens when they 00:14:53.509 --> 00:14:55.470 decide to just drop the hammer and flex that 00:14:55.470 --> 00:14:57.870 veto muscle Isaiah Berlin warned about? When 00:14:57.870 --> 00:15:00.090 they decide to use their veto, it is usually 00:15:00.090 --> 00:15:03.080 very public and very decisive. A prime example 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:06.080 of this is from 1981. The Reagan era. Right. 00:15:06.379 --> 00:15:08.980 Newly elected President Ronald Reagan nominated 00:15:08.980 --> 00:15:12.000 a man named Ernest W. Lefevre for the position 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.500 of Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights 00:15:14.500 --> 00:15:17.700 and Humanitarian Affairs. Reagan was facing pressure 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:19.779 from conservatives who felt the State Department 00:15:19.779 --> 00:15:22.940 lacked hardliners. But every high level State 00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:24.720 Department nominee has to sit in front of those 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:27.360 22 senators. Exactly. And Lefevre's confirmation 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.820 hearings did not go well. Oh, boy. He faced intense 00:15:30.820 --> 00:15:32.919 bipartisan pressure. pushback regarding his views 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:35.779 on human rights and his past associations. The 00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:37.559 committee didn't care that he was the president's 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.440 handpicked guy. They ruthlessly rejected his 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:43.600 nomination by a vote of four to 13. Well, a four 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.779 to 13 vote is a brutal public repudiation. It 00:15:46.779 --> 00:15:49.039 is. That forced Lefevre to withdraw his name 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.360 entirely, and the administration had to bring 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.580 in Elliott Abrams to fill the position instead. 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.259 It proves that their advice and consent roll 00:15:56.259 --> 00:15:59.129 is not just a rubber stamp. And they aren't afraid 00:15:59.129 --> 00:16:01.110 to use that same blunt force on international 00:16:01.110 --> 00:16:04.330 organizations either. Really? Like who? In the 00:16:04.330 --> 00:16:06.750 late 1990s, the committee was chaired by Republican 00:16:06.750 --> 00:16:10.090 Senator Jesse Helms, who was a staunch conservative 00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:13.149 and a fierce critic of the United Nations. He 00:16:13.149 --> 00:16:16.350 believed the U .N. was bloated, inefficient and 00:16:16.350 --> 00:16:19.110 encroaching on American sovereignty. So how does 00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:21.210 a committee chair force an entire international 00:16:21.210 --> 00:16:24.669 body to reform? By using the power of the purse, 00:16:24.970 --> 00:16:27.830 Helms flat out blocked the payment of hundreds 00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:30.070 of millions of dollars in U .S. membership dues 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:32.750 to the U .N. He just refused to pay. He held 00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:34.649 the money hostage in committee until the United 00:16:34.649 --> 00:16:37.289 Nations agreed to specific administrative reforms 00:16:37.289 --> 00:16:39.490 and a reduction in the U .S. assessment rate. 00:16:39.610 --> 00:16:42.029 He leveraged the committee's procedural power 00:16:42.029 --> 00:16:45.590 to bend a global institution to his will. It 00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:48.029 is just a staggering amount of leverage. And 00:16:48.029 --> 00:16:50.519 the maneuvering hasn't stopped. even if the leadership 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.679 has seen quite a bit of turbulence in recent 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.659 years. Very true. Looking at the last few Congresses, 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:58.539 the gavel has changed hands multiple times under 00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:01.419 difficult circumstances. Democratic Senator Bob 00:17:01.419 --> 00:17:03.720 Menendez of New Jersey chaired the committee 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.740 from 2021 to 2023, but he had to step down from 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:09.740 the chairmanship after facing federal corruption 00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:12.509 charges. Right. Following that departure, Democratic 00:17:12.509 --> 00:17:15.509 Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland took over in late 00:17:15.509 --> 00:17:18.569 2023, steering the committee through the end 00:17:18.569 --> 00:17:22.109 of the 118th Congress. Yeah. And then as the 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:24.890 political winds shifted, Jim Risch assumed the 00:17:24.890 --> 00:17:28.009 chair in 2025 for the current 119th Congress. 00:17:28.250 --> 00:17:30.890 The majorities flip, the scandals come and go, 00:17:31.029 --> 00:17:33.789 but the institution itself rolls on. Which brings 00:17:33.789 --> 00:17:35.950 up a really important aspect of all this. We 00:17:35.950 --> 00:17:38.130 spend so much time talking about the famous senators, 00:17:38.410 --> 00:17:41.109 you know, the Morgans, the Vandenbergs. the Fulbrights, 00:17:41.109 --> 00:17:43.509 the Helms. But the institution doesn't just run 00:17:43.509 --> 00:17:45.710 on politicians. Who is actually keeping the lights 00:17:45.710 --> 00:17:47.690 on and doing the day -to -day work? That's a 00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:49.890 great point. There is a wonderful profile of 00:17:49.890 --> 00:17:51.690 a man named Bertie Bowman in our source material 00:17:51.690 --> 00:17:53.809 that really grounds this history. Tell me about 00:17:53.809 --> 00:17:57.049 him. Bowman was a staffer who literally got his 00:17:57.049 --> 00:17:59.890 start sweeping the Capitol steps in the mid -20th 00:17:59.890 --> 00:18:03.309 century. From those humble beginnings, he worked 00:18:03.309 --> 00:18:05.869 his way up and served as a staffer on the Foreign 00:18:05.869 --> 00:18:08.970 Relations Committee from 1966 all the way to 00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:12.720 1990. Wow. Just think about the history he witnessed 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.819 in that room. He would have been there for the 00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:17.279 Vietnam hearings, the drafting of the Taiwan 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.220 Relations Act, the rejection of Ernest Lefevre. 00:18:20.380 --> 00:18:22.519 And his career didn't end there either. He later 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:24.240 returned to serve as the hearing coordinator 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.539 for the committee from 2000 until 2021. That 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:29.880 is an incredible run. When he passed away at 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.400 the age of 92, he was remembered as a revered 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.150 aide. Men like Bertie Bowman are the ones who 00:18:35.150 --> 00:18:37.609 hold the actual institutional memory of American 00:18:37.609 --> 00:18:39.730 foreign policy. They coordinate the hearings, 00:18:39.849 --> 00:18:41.890 draft the memos, and ensure that the machinery 00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:45.170 of diplomacy functions across decades, regardless 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:47.670 of who is holding the gavel. It is a vital reminder 00:18:47.670 --> 00:18:49.589 that government is ultimately made of people 00:18:49.589 --> 00:18:52.430 showing up to work every day. To briefly recap 00:18:52.430 --> 00:18:54.869 the journey we've taken with you today, we started 00:18:54.869 --> 00:18:58.660 in 1816 with a brand new committee. We watched 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:01.779 them manipulate their power to physically reshape 00:19:01.779 --> 00:19:04.619 the globe with the Panama Canal and New Island 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:07.339 territories. We saw them demand a central role 00:19:07.339 --> 00:19:09.839 in the post -war world by pushing for the United 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.960 Nations. Right. We watched them navigate the 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.819 incredibly tricky waters of the Cold War by drafting 00:19:15.819 --> 00:19:18.619 the Taiwan Relations Act. And we saw them confirm 00:19:18.619 --> 00:19:21.160 or destroy the careers of top diplomats with 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:24.630 their absolute veto power. From sweeping the 00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:27.309 Capitol steps to shaping the global order, this 00:19:27.309 --> 00:19:30.789 room of 22 people truly acts as the eye of the 00:19:30.789 --> 00:19:33.549 storm for American foreign policy. It is a phenomenal 00:19:33.549 --> 00:19:35.970 history, but this raises an important question 00:19:35.970 --> 00:19:38.170 for us to consider today. What's that? We've 00:19:38.170 --> 00:19:40.210 talked extensively about their power to block 00:19:40.210 --> 00:19:43.289 treaties and confirm ambassadors, but we are 00:19:43.289 --> 00:19:45.670 increasingly living in an era where presidents 00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:48.130 of both parties bypass the treaty process entirely. 00:19:48.569 --> 00:19:50.789 Right. They just do it themselves. They use unilateral 00:19:50.789 --> 00:19:52.930 executive orders or sign executive agreements 00:19:52.930 --> 00:19:55.450 with foreign nations that never require a two 00:19:55.450 --> 00:19:57.890 -thirds vote in the Senate. If the executive 00:19:57.890 --> 00:20:00.789 branch can simply bypass the committee to enact 00:20:00.789 --> 00:20:03.049 major foreign policy changes with the stroke 00:20:03.049 --> 00:20:06.029 of a pen, does the deliberative body designed 00:20:06.029 --> 00:20:08.970 in 1816 still hold the same gatekeeping power? 00:20:09.190 --> 00:20:12.210 Or are we watching the slow obsolescence of the 00:20:12.210 --> 00:20:14.950 Senate's most powerful room? That is a fascinating 00:20:14.950 --> 00:20:17.599 dynamic to consider. If the president can just 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.740 walk around the gatekeeper, does the gate even 00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:22.099 matter anymore? We will leave that for you to 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:25.039 explore on your own. Thank you so much for joining 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.460 us on this deep dive. We hope you walk away with 00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:29.259 a richer understanding of how the world works 00:20:29.259 --> 00:20:32.339 behind closed doors. Keep questioning, keep exploring 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:34.160 the hidden instructions that shape your world, 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:35.539 and we will catch you next time.