WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.759 Imagine for a second that you're just sitting 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:05.400 in your backyard. Okay. You're a limo driver. 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:09.060 You're in your 60s, living out in the sun -baked 00:00:09.060 --> 00:00:11.720 stretches of Apple Valley, California. Right, 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:14.640 desert country. Exactly. And you're looking up 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.179 at the sky, surrounded by scrap metal, old tools, 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:20.989 desert dust. And you decide right then and there 00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:23.910 that you are going to build your very own homemade 00:00:23.910 --> 00:00:26.469 steam rocket. Just a totally normal Tuesday thought. 00:00:26.609 --> 00:00:28.870 Right. You decide you're going to climb inside 00:00:28.870 --> 00:00:31.410 this DIY contraction and literally blast yourself 00:00:31.410 --> 00:00:34.090 into the heavens. It's wild. It sounds entirely 00:00:34.090 --> 00:00:36.289 like the plot of some quirky Hollywood movie. 00:00:36.450 --> 00:00:38.590 It really does. But for you, our listener, sitting 00:00:38.590 --> 00:00:41.289 right here in the room with us today, we are 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:44.409 going to explore a story that is 100 % real. 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.340 Unbelievable life, the extreme stunts, and the 00:00:51.340 --> 00:00:53.799 highly controversial legacy of Michael Hughes. 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:56.539 A man much better known to the world as Mad Mike 00:00:56.539 --> 00:00:59.399 Hughes. Exactly. Mad Mike Hughes, the ultimate 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.280 DIY stuntman. And it really is an astonishing 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:05.040 and, frankly, incredibly complex story. When 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:07.040 you first hear about a guy launching himself 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:10.099 over the desert, you know, the explosions and 00:01:10.099 --> 00:01:12.180 the sheer audacity of it that immediately catches 00:01:12.180 --> 00:01:14.900 your attention. How could it not? Right. But 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:17.659 what we are looking at today goes significantly 00:01:17.659 --> 00:01:20.500 deeper than just the adrenaline rush of an amateur 00:01:20.500 --> 00:01:23.420 aerospace enthusiast. This is actually a profound 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:26.519 case study about modern Internet culture. Oh, 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:29.659 absolutely. It's about the wild. sometimes deeply 00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:33.319 cynical economics of crowdfunding and ultimately 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:36.519 the extreme, sometimes fatal lengths that people 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:39.079 will go to in order to finance their impossible 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:41.939 dreams. OK, let's unpack this starting right 00:01:41.939 --> 00:01:44.099 at the beginning, because long before he was 00:01:44.099 --> 00:01:46.480 an aspiring astronaut making international headlines, 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:49.260 Mike Hughes was just a guy from Oklahoma City 00:01:49.260 --> 00:01:51.959 who loved motorcycle racing. He always had this 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:55.159 intense need for speed. He did, but he didn't 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.900 quietly harbor that ambition. You know, he made 00:01:57.900 --> 00:02:00.340 his. mark in a massive heavy metal sort of way 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:02.879 long before the Rockets ever came into play. 00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:05.400 You look at the archives and back in 2002 he 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:07.939 sets a Guinness World Record. Yes, he does. And 00:02:07.939 --> 00:02:09.900 how exactly did he pull that off? Because it 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:13.020 wasn't on a motorcycle, right? Far from it. He 00:02:13.020 --> 00:02:15.780 set that Guinness World Record by jumping a Lincoln 00:02:15.780 --> 00:02:19.319 Town car stretch limousine. A stretch limousine. 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:21.879 An incredible 103 feet through the air. That 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.469 just sounds like a physics nightmare. It is entirely 00:02:24.469 --> 00:02:26.689 a physics nightmare. If you think about the structural 00:02:26.689 --> 00:02:29.090 integrity of a stretch limo, it is completely 00:02:29.090 --> 00:02:31.490 absurd to try and make it airborne. Right. They're 00:02:31.490 --> 00:02:34.830 boats. Exactly. Those vehicles are incredibly 00:02:34.830 --> 00:02:37.530 heavy. They're notoriously unbalanced with that 00:02:37.530 --> 00:02:40.169 extended wheelbase. And their suspension systems 00:02:40.169 --> 00:02:43.409 are designed for, you know, smooth, luxurious 00:02:43.409 --> 00:02:47.370 highway driving. Not absorbing the impact of 00:02:47.370 --> 00:02:50.800 a 103 -foot flight. Definitely not. The fact 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.099 that he managed to jump one and actually survive 00:02:53.099 --> 00:02:56.199 really cements his core identity right out of 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:58.539 the gate. He wasn't trained as an aerospace engineer. 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:01.479 No. He was a daredevil. He thrived on spectacle. 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.180 And his ambitions were always just larger than 00:03:04.180 --> 00:03:06.620 life. I mean, he even told the Associated Press 00:03:06.620 --> 00:03:09.139 in 2018 that he had planned to run for governor 00:03:09.139 --> 00:03:12.039 of California at one point. Wow. Really? Yeah. 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:14.180 He was a man who constantly sought the biggest 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:17.680 stage possible. So. Jumping a massive luxury 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:21.060 land yacht solidifies his brand. But eventually, 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.060 jumping cars just wasn't enough to satisfy that 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:26.919 itch. He looks higher. Right. The sources show 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:29.819 that by 2014, he teams up with a collaborator 00:03:29.819 --> 00:03:32.580 named Waldo Stakes, and together they build his 00:03:32.580 --> 00:03:35.280 first crewed rocket. Yes. They take it out to 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.520 Winkleman, Arizona. What exactly happened on 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:41.159 that launch day? So on January 30, 2014, they 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:43.479 actually managed to launch the craft. The data 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:47.360 shows he flew 1 ,374 feet over the Arizona landscape. 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:49.979 That's a huge distance for a backyard build. 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:52.740 It is. And the entire flight lasted just over 00:03:52.740 --> 00:03:55.060 a minute. A minute in the air. But the physical 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.560 toll that took on him, it's hard to even comprehend. 00:03:57.939 --> 00:04:00.340 The archives note that after the landing, he 00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:03.500 literally collapsed. It was brutal. It took him 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:06.060 three days just to recover from the sheer force 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:08.340 of the flight. His injuries were so severe he 00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:11.020 had to use a walker for two weeks. Yeah. It begs 00:04:11.020 --> 00:04:13.159 the question, what kind of forces are at play 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.139 inside a homemade rocket, that would absolutely 00:04:15.139 --> 00:04:17.779 wreck a person's body like that. What's fascinating 00:04:17.779 --> 00:04:21.759 here is the harsh reality of the transition from 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:26.000 traditional vehicle stunts to the highly unpredictable 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.779 realm of amateur rocketry. It's important to 00:04:29.779 --> 00:04:31.079 understand the mechanics we're talking about. 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:33.660 Break it down for us. Well, a homemade steam 00:04:33.660 --> 00:04:36.439 rocket doesn't use controlled chemical combustion 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:39.180 in the way we typically think of, say, modern 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:41.740 space shuttles. Okay. Think of a pressure vessel 00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:44.480 like a massive industrial -strength tea kettle. 00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:47.779 A tea kettle. Exactly. If you plug the spout 00:04:47.779 --> 00:04:50.160 and keep boiling the water, the pressure builds 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:53.769 and builds until it is desperate to escape. When 00:04:53.769 --> 00:04:56.769 the valve is finally opened, that trapped, superheated 00:04:56.769 --> 00:04:59.589 steam blasts out all at once. Releasing all that 00:04:59.589 --> 00:05:01.769 energy. Right, creating enough raw thrust to 00:05:01.769 --> 00:05:03.730 launch a heavy metal rocket into the air. So 00:05:03.730 --> 00:05:05.829 you're basically strapping yourself to an exploding 00:05:05.829 --> 00:05:08.670 boiler. Essentially, yes. And because it's a 00:05:08.670 --> 00:05:11.009 sudden, violent release of energy rather than 00:05:11.009 --> 00:05:14.790 a smooth, sustained burn, the G -forces are incredibly 00:05:14.790 --> 00:05:17.550 intense. I can't even imagine. The vibration 00:05:17.550 --> 00:05:21.310 inside the cockpit is bone -rattling. And the 00:05:21.310 --> 00:05:23.990 landings, which rely on parachute deployments 00:05:23.990 --> 00:05:27.189 at relatively low altitudes, are notoriously 00:05:27.189 --> 00:05:30.029 hard. It is incredibly violent on the human body. 00:05:30.069 --> 00:05:32.629 It sounds like it. And we should note, there 00:05:32.629 --> 00:05:34.490 is a healthy amount of skepticism surrounding 00:05:34.490 --> 00:05:37.769 this specific 2014 launch. Right, because there 00:05:37.769 --> 00:05:39.689 was no actual footage of him getting into the 00:05:39.689 --> 00:05:42.709 craft. Correct. Because there was no video of 00:05:42.709 --> 00:05:44.430 Hughes actually climbing into the rocket before 00:05:44.430 --> 00:05:47.209 liftoff, some critics in the amateur rocketry 00:05:47.209 --> 00:05:49.850 community doubted he was even inside it when 00:05:49.850 --> 00:05:52.149 it launched. Interesting. But regardless of that 00:05:52.149 --> 00:05:55.069 skepticism, this event permanently set the trajectory 00:05:55.069 --> 00:05:57.850 for the rest of his life. He was officially in 00:05:57.850 --> 00:05:59.970 the rocket game. But getting into the rocket 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:03.250 game introduces a massive hurdle. And that is 00:06:03.250 --> 00:06:05.470 the financial reality of building these machines 00:06:05.470 --> 00:06:08.649 in your backyard. It is wildly expensive. Exactly. 00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:12.230 So by 2016, Hughes is hitting a brick wall. He 00:06:12.230 --> 00:06:14.069 tries the traditional route to crowdfund his 00:06:14.069 --> 00:06:16.930 next launch. He sets up a campaign, puts his 00:06:16.930 --> 00:06:18.709 ambitious dream out there for the Internet to 00:06:18.709 --> 00:06:21.290 support. And what happens? It completely flops. 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:26.860 He raises a grand total of $310. $310? That won't 00:06:26.860 --> 00:06:29.319 even cover the cost of a high -end safety helmet, 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:32.139 let alone the raw steel and pressure valves needed 00:06:32.139 --> 00:06:34.680 for a steam rocket. It barely covers the hardware 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.399 store run. Right. So he is dead in the water 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.680 financially. Nobody is interested in funding 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.779 a random daredevil's backyard project. But here's 00:06:43.779 --> 00:06:46.860 where it gets really interesting. Later that 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:49.879 same year, in 2016, Mike Hughes makes a very 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.839 sudden... very public declaration. He certainly 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:54.879 does. He announces to the world that he is a 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.100 staunch believer in the flat earth conspiracy. 00:06:57.540 --> 00:06:59.860 And this is the pivot that completely changes 00:06:59.860 --> 00:07:02.180 the economics of his entire operation. It's night 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:04.360 and day. The moment he publicly aligns himself 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:06.180 with the flat earth community, the financial 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:08.819 drought ends. Suddenly, he is tapped into an 00:07:08.819 --> 00:07:12.500 entirely new, highly engaged, and highly motivated 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:14.920 audience. He found his people, or at least his 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.639 funders. Exactly. He launches a brand new fundraising 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.589 campaign. But this time, He ties the financial 00:07:20.589 --> 00:07:23.310 goal directly to this new professed belief. He 00:07:23.310 --> 00:07:25.829 rebrands the entire mission. His stated mission 00:07:25.829 --> 00:07:28.050 is no longer just about the thrill of a stunt 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:30.670 launch. He tells this community that his ultimate 00:07:30.670 --> 00:07:33.750 goal is to fly a rocket into outer space and 00:07:33.750 --> 00:07:37.110 take a picture, proving once and for all that 00:07:37.110 --> 00:07:39.910 the Earth is a flat disk. And the result of that 00:07:39.910 --> 00:07:43.370 pivot? The new campaign crushes its goal, raising 00:07:43.370 --> 00:07:47.779 $7 ,875. There is an incredible sociological 00:07:47.779 --> 00:07:50.500 irony to that. He essentially has to publicly 00:07:50.500 --> 00:07:53.980 reject centuries of established scientific observation 00:07:53.980 --> 00:07:56.800 just to secure the funding for an experiment 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.139 that is governed entirely by the unforgiving 00:07:59.139 --> 00:08:01.339 laws of physics. That's quite the paradox. It's 00:08:01.339 --> 00:08:04.759 a brilliant, if highly controversial, masterclass 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:07.660 in finding a niche audience. So he gets the cash, 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:10.420 he starts building his machine, and he sets his 00:08:10.420 --> 00:08:13.300 sights on a major launch in November of 2017. 00:08:14.269 --> 00:08:16.509 But when you are trying to launch a homemade 00:08:16.509 --> 00:08:18.730 missile into the sky, the government tends to 00:08:18.730 --> 00:08:20.649 get involved. They absolutely do. He gets into 00:08:20.649 --> 00:08:23.410 a massive, highly publicized standoff with the 00:08:23.410 --> 00:08:26.310 Bureau of Land Management, the BLM. Hughes intended 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:28.790 to launch over public land in California, claiming 00:08:28.790 --> 00:08:30.750 that the agency had given him verbal permission 00:08:30.750 --> 00:08:33.429 a year prior. And the BLM's response? They come 00:08:33.429 --> 00:08:36.190 back and say, absolutely not. We have no record 00:08:36.190 --> 00:08:39.549 of any such conversation. And you need a mountain 00:08:39.549 --> 00:08:42.210 of permits and safety clearances to do this. 00:08:42.409 --> 00:08:44.470 Which makes sense. You can't just... slide a 00:08:44.470 --> 00:08:47.029 makeshift missile pad onto public property and 00:08:47.029 --> 00:08:48.490 expect the federal government to look the other 00:08:48.490 --> 00:08:51.669 way exactly so how does a guy who brands himself 00:08:51.669 --> 00:08:55.509 as mad mike respond to that level of bureaucratic 00:08:55.509 --> 00:08:58.210 red tape his response is perfectly emblematic 00:08:58.210 --> 00:09:00.549 of his entire worldview yeah he told the press 00:09:00.549 --> 00:09:04.090 and i quote i'm a daredevil i'm not much for 00:09:04.090 --> 00:09:07.529 authority or rules He doesn't hire lawyers. He 00:09:07.529 --> 00:09:09.450 doesn't fill out the extensive safety paperwork. 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:12.190 Instead, he just moves the entire launch pad 00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:14.590 four miles down the road so he can take off and 00:09:14.590 --> 00:09:17.789 land entirely on private property. Just sidesteps 00:09:17.789 --> 00:09:19.529 them entirely. He's completely bypassed their 00:09:19.529 --> 00:09:21.850 jurisdiction. That is incredibly stubborn, but 00:09:21.850 --> 00:09:24.269 you have to admire the sheer willpower. He was 00:09:24.269 --> 00:09:26.789 going to launch that rocket no matter what institution 00:09:26.789 --> 00:09:29.570 stood in his way, but he wasn't completely naive 00:09:29.570 --> 00:09:32.710 to the risks, was he? No, he understood the gravity 00:09:32.710 --> 00:09:35.299 of what he was attempting. Around the time of 00:09:35.299 --> 00:09:38.000 this standoff, he gave a very sobering quote 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.399 to the Associated Press. He openly acknowledged 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.639 the extreme danger of his DIY approach. What 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:47.220 did he say? He told them, quote, it's scary as 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:49.100 hell, but none of us are getting out of this 00:09:49.100 --> 00:09:52.500 world alive. Wow. So the stakes are set. He knows 00:09:52.500 --> 00:09:55.929 it could end terribly. After some delays and 00:09:55.929 --> 00:09:57.789 having to scrape together a bit more money to 00:09:57.789 --> 00:10:00.250 keep the project alive, he finally gets his moment. 00:10:00.389 --> 00:10:03.269 March 24, 2018. Out in the Mojave Desert. The 00:10:03.269 --> 00:10:05.929 visual here is incredible. He has to launch this 00:10:05.929 --> 00:10:09.610 steam -powered rocket at a sharp 83 -degree angle. 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:11.990 Right, because of the property lines. Exactly. 00:10:12.029 --> 00:10:13.990 He has to do that specifically to make sure he 00:10:13.990 --> 00:10:16.210 doesn't accidentally drift over and land on that 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:18.850 public BLM land he was just fighting with. Precision 00:10:18.850 --> 00:10:21.669 backyard engineering. He blasts off. What did 00:10:21.669 --> 00:10:23.679 the numbers look like for this flight? It was 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:25.600 a highly successful flight by amateur standards. 00:10:26.059 --> 00:10:29.700 The team reported that he hit speeds of 350 miles 00:10:29.700 --> 00:10:32.399 per hour during the ascent. 350 miles per hour? 00:10:32.539 --> 00:10:36.960 And he reached a peak altitude of 1 ,875 feet. 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:39.879 It ended with a really hard parachute landing 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:42.740 in the desert about 1 ,500 feet from where he 00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:46.799 originally took off. But he survived. Amazingly, 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:49.720 despite the violent forces involved, he walked 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:52.309 away with no serious injuries. That has to be 00:10:52.309 --> 00:10:54.750 an unbelievable high to have the government tell 00:10:54.750 --> 00:10:57.649 you no, have the internet call you crazy, and 00:10:57.649 --> 00:10:59.669 then to actually strap yourself into a boiling 00:10:59.669 --> 00:11:03.009 tea kettle, hit 350 miles an hour and survive. 00:11:03.450 --> 00:11:05.649 He proved everyone wrong. But where do you go 00:11:05.649 --> 00:11:07.889 once you've successfully launched yourself into 00:11:07.889 --> 00:11:10.169 the desert sky and lived to tell the tale? For 00:11:10.169 --> 00:11:12.809 a guy like Hughes, you look higher. The 2018 00:11:12.809 --> 00:11:14.909 launch was the validation he had been looking 00:11:14.909 --> 00:11:17.879 for. He proved the machine worked. At least to 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:20.100 a certain altitude. Right. He immediately started 00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:23.139 conceptualizing the next phase, pushing for much 00:11:23.139 --> 00:11:25.960 higher altitudes. He was ultimately aiming for 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:28.879 a theoretical 20 mile high balloon launch where 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.120 he would detach and ignite a rocket. 20 miles 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:33.279 high. That's getting into legitimate aerospace 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:35.759 territory. But the reality of backyard engineering 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.929 caught up with him. And 2019 proved to be incredibly 00:11:38.929 --> 00:11:41.029 frustrating. What happened? He had a major launch 00:11:41.029 --> 00:11:43.950 plan for August 10th of that year, but it was 00:11:43.950 --> 00:11:46.470 grounded by mechanical troubles. And these weren't 00:11:46.470 --> 00:11:49.169 highly technical airspace issues. The sources 00:11:49.169 --> 00:11:51.649 note that one of the critical failures was a 00:11:51.649 --> 00:11:54.750 bad water heater that he had bought on Craigslist. 00:11:55.110 --> 00:11:57.809 Hold on. A Craigslist water heater? Yes. How 00:11:57.809 --> 00:12:00.090 does a household appliance even fit into the 00:12:00.090 --> 00:12:02.450 schematic of a vehicle meant to break the sound 00:12:02.450 --> 00:12:05.210 barrier? This is the reality of DIY rocketry 00:12:05.210 --> 00:12:08.539 on a shoestring budget. Amateur builders often 00:12:08.539 --> 00:12:11.399 rely on repurposing high -pressure consumer goods 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.179 because custom machine pressure vessels cost 00:12:14.179 --> 00:12:16.299 tens of thousands of dollars. So they just use 00:12:16.299 --> 00:12:18.019 what they can find. They take a commercial water 00:12:18.019 --> 00:12:20.600 heater, reinforce it, and try to adapt it to 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:23.320 hold superheated steam. That's wild. It highlights 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:26.299 the absolute duct tape and grit nature of this 00:12:26.299 --> 00:12:30.039 enterprise, but is also incredibly, incredibly 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.360 dangerous. It's terrifying when you really think 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:34.120 about it. So the Craigslist water heater fails. 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:36.700 He tries again the following weekend, but he 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:39.539 has to postpone once more this time because he 00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:42.039 ends up being treated for heat exhaustion while 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:44.740 working out in the unforgiving desert sun. The 00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:46.559 elements are just as dangerous as the rocket. 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:49.820 Exactly. So 2019 is effectively a wash, but he 00:12:49.820 --> 00:12:53.379 regroups. He patches up the rocket and he prepares 00:12:53.379 --> 00:12:57.320 for a new launch date, February 22, 2020, near 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.590 Barstow, California. And the energy surrounding 00:12:59.590 --> 00:13:01.750 this launch is completely different. The stakes 00:13:01.750 --> 00:13:03.889 are higher. Much higher, because the cameras 00:13:03.889 --> 00:13:06.830 are rolling for a major cable network. He is 00:13:06.830 --> 00:13:08.990 starring in a new science channel television 00:13:08.990 --> 00:13:12.690 series, literally called Homemade Astronauts. 00:13:12.909 --> 00:13:15.090 This raises an important question about the intersection 00:13:15.090 --> 00:13:17.490 of extreme stunts and the entertainment industry. 00:13:17.789 --> 00:13:20.149 When you have production schedules, film crews 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:23.250 on site and network money involved, the pressure 00:13:23.250 --> 00:13:25.330 to launch, even if conditions aren't perfect, 00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:28.230 increases exponentially. It creates a very dangerous 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:31.230 dynamic. And on that day in February 2020, that 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:33.590 pressure culminated in tragedy. Walk us through 00:13:33.590 --> 00:13:35.669 what happened on that launch pad. We know from 00:13:35.669 --> 00:13:37.289 the source material and eyewitness accounts, 00:13:37.629 --> 00:13:40.230 including freelance journalist Justin Chapman, 00:13:40.250 --> 00:13:42.490 who was on site, that there was a fatal. mechanical 00:13:42.490 --> 00:13:45.309 failure right at the moment of liftoff. As the 00:13:45.309 --> 00:13:47.590 steam rocket forcefully launched off the ramp, 00:13:47.909 --> 00:13:50.090 the parachute, which is obviously the single 00:13:50.090 --> 00:13:52.830 most critical component for a safe return, deployed 00:13:52.830 --> 00:13:56.350 far too early. The footage shows it appearing 00:13:56.350 --> 00:13:58.409 to catch and rub against the launch apparatus 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:01.539 and the ladder. The sheer force and speed of 00:14:01.539 --> 00:14:03.820 the ascent tore the parachute, and it completely 00:14:03.820 --> 00:14:05.919 detached from the craft while it was still heading 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:08.460 up. So he had no way down. Without the parachute, 00:14:08.740 --> 00:14:11.840 the rocket reached its apex, arsed, and crashed 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.860 forcefully back to Earth. Mike Hughes was killed 00:14:14.860 --> 00:14:17.950 upon impact. It's an incredibly heavy, tragic 00:14:17.950 --> 00:14:21.389 end to his story. He died doing exactly what 00:14:21.389 --> 00:14:23.529 he loved, right in front of the documentary cameras 00:14:23.529 --> 00:14:25.470 that were there to chronicle his journey as the 00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:28.789 ultimate DIY stuntman. A very public end to a 00:14:28.789 --> 00:14:31.230 very public life. But almost immediately after 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:33.450 the dust settled in the desert, a massive debate 00:14:33.450 --> 00:14:35.789 erupted about who Mike Hughes really was and 00:14:35.789 --> 00:14:38.009 what he actually believed. This is a crucial 00:14:38.009 --> 00:14:40.529 part of his legacy. And this is where we have 00:14:40.529 --> 00:14:43.250 to look impartially at the conflicting viewpoints 00:14:43.250 --> 00:14:45.769 from the people who operated in his inner circle. 00:14:46.129 --> 00:14:49.669 Was Mad Mike Hughes a genuine proponent of the 00:14:49.669 --> 00:14:52.649 Flat Earth conspiracy? Or was he a PR genius 00:14:52.649 --> 00:14:55.230 playing a highly lucrative character to get his 00:14:55.230 --> 00:14:57.250 rockets funded? The source material provides 00:14:57.250 --> 00:15:00.289 very stark opposing views on his true motives. 00:15:00.830 --> 00:15:03.210 And it's important we examine both sides. Let's 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:05.360 hear them. On one hand, you have the PR argument. 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.159 His own public relations representative, Darren 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.159 Schuster, came out after Hughes's death and was 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.279 remarkably blunt about the strategy. What did 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.759 Schuster say? He stated, and I quote, we use 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:19.399 Flat Earth as a PR stunt. Flat Earth allowed 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:21.379 us to get so much publicity that we kept going. 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:23.620 I know he didn't believe in Flat Earth and it 00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:25.919 was a shtick. That's a pretty definitive statement 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.299 from the guy paid to manage his public image. 00:15:28.539 --> 00:15:31.059 It is. And this viewpoint is echoed by science 00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:33.940 writer Mick West. West actually spoke with Hughes 00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:36.899 and analyzed his public statements. And his conclusion. 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.559 He came away completely convinced that Hughes 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.720 was simply using the controversial topic as a 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:45.840 tool to promote his stuntman career. And that 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.659 he harbored no genuine desire to conduct scientific 00:15:48.659 --> 00:15:51.019 research to prove the shape of the Earth. But 00:15:51.019 --> 00:15:52.440 then you look at the other side of the debate. 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.779 And the waters get murky. Michael Lynn, who was 00:15:55.779 --> 00:15:57.960 a partner on a documentary made about Hughes 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.960 called Rocket Man, spent a significant amount 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:02.919 of time with him. Right. He was there behind 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.820 the scenes. Lynn stated that from his close perspective, 00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:08.740 Hughes's belief in the flat earth appeared entirely 00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:11.399 genuine and not just an act for the cameras. 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:13.340 So you have two people who work closely with 00:16:13.340 --> 00:16:15.960 him saying complete opposites. Exactly. We are 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.779 presenting both of these sides to you, the listener, 00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:21.559 because the truth of his internal belief system 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.669 seems. to be caught somewhere in the middle of 00:16:23.669 --> 00:16:27.509 this intense, posthumous debate. So what does 00:16:27.509 --> 00:16:29.730 this all mean for us, sitting here trying to 00:16:29.730 --> 00:16:32.129 understand his legacy? If we connect this to 00:16:32.129 --> 00:16:34.809 the bigger picture, it's a fascinating and somewhat 00:16:34.809 --> 00:16:36.809 unsettling look at the blurred lines between 00:16:36.809 --> 00:16:40.450 monetization, persona, and reality in the digital 00:16:40.450 --> 00:16:43.350 age. It really is. Hughes needed capital to build 00:16:43.350 --> 00:16:46.429 rockets. The Flat Earth community had capital, 00:16:46.570 --> 00:16:48.909 and they had a desperate desire for mainstream 00:16:48.909 --> 00:16:52.350 representation and validation. It functioned, 00:16:52.350 --> 00:16:54.610 at least initially, as a mutually beneficial 00:16:54.610 --> 00:16:57.750 economic transaction. A symbiotic relationship. 00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:01.029 But when you spend years publicly advocating 00:17:01.029 --> 00:17:03.879 for a highly controversial belief... When you 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:05.720 do the media tours, when you wear the logos, 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:07.640 and when you brand your life's work around it, 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.339 the distinction between a cynical stick and a 00:17:10.339 --> 00:17:13.500 genuine belief becomes incredibly muddy to the 00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:15.599 outside observer. Whether he believed it in his 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.259 heart or not, his name became inextricably linked 00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:21.240 to that specific internet subculture. And that 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:24.019 linkage catapulted him into a really unique, 00:17:24.099 --> 00:17:27.079 weird echelon of pop culture fame. Oh, totally. 00:17:27.220 --> 00:17:29.259 He wasn't just a guy tinkering in his backyard 00:17:29.259 --> 00:17:31.460 anymore. He became a cultural phenomenon. You 00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:33.599 look at his footprint. And he actually appeared 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.359 in a music video for the punk band Death Valley 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.119 Girls for their song One Less Thing Before I 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.269 Die. I remember that. The video prominently features 00:17:42.269 --> 00:17:44.710 actual footage of his Flat Earth rocket launch 00:17:44.710 --> 00:17:47.789 out in Apple Valley. And as we mentioned, he 00:17:47.789 --> 00:17:50.130 was the starring focus of that 2019 documentary, 00:17:50.529 --> 00:17:53.410 Rocket Man, Mad Mike's mission to prove the Flat 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:56.009 Earth. His cultural footprint even extended into 00:17:56.009 --> 00:17:58.710 the highly volatile realm of major Internet influencers. 00:17:59.069 --> 00:18:02.150 This part is so bizarre. He appeared in a 2020 00:18:02.150 --> 00:18:04.769 mockumentary created by the massive YouTube star 00:18:04.769 --> 00:18:08.609 Logan Paul titled Flat Earth. To the edge and 00:18:08.609 --> 00:18:11.630 back. And in a fitting final detail to his chaotic 00:18:11.630 --> 00:18:14.630 story, at the time of his death, Hughes was actually 00:18:14.630 --> 00:18:16.950 attempting to sue over his appearance in that 00:18:16.950 --> 00:18:19.410 very film. He was constantly navigating and sometimes 00:18:19.410 --> 00:18:22.049 fiercely battling the media ecosystem that had 00:18:22.049 --> 00:18:24.069 helped elevate his profile. Always in the mix, 00:18:24.130 --> 00:18:26.509 right to the end. So to recap this unbelievable 00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:28.910 journey for you sitting here with us, Michael 00:18:28.910 --> 00:18:31.250 Mad Mike Hughes was a man whose life was this 00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:33.990 incredible chaotic blend of extreme physical 00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:37.619 bravery, stubborn DIY engineering. and a highly 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:39.779 controversial internet persona. He went from 00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:41.740 jumping a Lincoln Town car stretch limousine 00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:44.259 to building a homemade steam rocket with Craigslist 00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:47.519 parts. Ultimately achieving literal flight on 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:50.579 his own terms. But his story is also a stark, 00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:53.599 sobering reminder of the tragic human cost that 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.660 can come with that specific brand of relentless 00:18:55.660 --> 00:18:59.890 daredevil ambition. He probably refused to play 00:18:59.890 --> 00:19:01.690 by the rules of aerodynamics or bureaucracy. 00:19:02.029 --> 00:19:04.150 And it ultimately cost him his life. He built 00:19:04.150 --> 00:19:06.289 his own path, circumventing every traditional 00:19:06.289 --> 00:19:09.450 institution entirely on his own terms. But looking 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:11.509 at the entirety of his life leaves us with something 00:19:11.509 --> 00:19:14.430 very profound to consider about the changing 00:19:14.430 --> 00:19:17.269 landscape of exploration and media. Exactly. 00:19:17.589 --> 00:19:19.529 And that is what we want to leave you with today. 00:19:19.710 --> 00:19:22.569 A brand new thought to mull over long after we 00:19:22.569 --> 00:19:25.349 sign off. Let's hear it. For decades, pushing 00:19:25.349 --> 00:19:27.390 the boundaries of human flight was strictly the 00:19:27.390 --> 00:19:30.390 domain of highly regulated, multi -billion dollar 00:19:30.390 --> 00:19:33.890 government agencies. But today, the democratization 00:19:33.890 --> 00:19:36.089 of internet funding means anyone with a smartphone 00:19:36.089 --> 00:19:39.009 and a controversial enough persona can crowdfund 00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:41.609 a private space program right in their backyard. 00:19:41.869 --> 00:19:44.769 It's a massive shift in access. But if the internet 00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:47.490 algorithms and niche communities actively reward 00:19:47.490 --> 00:19:49.829 people with massive funding for aggressively 00:19:49.829 --> 00:19:53.200 bypassing institutional safety nets, What does 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.460 the future of extreme DIY exploration look like? 00:19:56.619 --> 00:19:59.220 That's the real question. When you adopt a radical 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:01.859 persona just to crowdfund your dreams, at what 00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:03.880 point does the character you're playing simply 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:06.839 become who you are? If the world only knows you 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.119 for the shtick, does the truth of what you actually 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.500 believe even matter in the end? It's a critical 00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:14.319 question about identity and the future of exploration 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.279 in an algorithm -driven world. It really is. 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:19.220 Thank you so much for sitting down with us and 00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:21.559 joining us on this deep dive. We love unpacking 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:23.880 these complex, fascinating stories with you. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.099 And we can't wait to see where the archives take 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:28.619 us next time. Take care and keep questioning 00:20:28.619 --> 00:20:28.980 everything.