WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.179 I want you to picture a sound so heavy, so crushing 00:00:05.179 --> 00:00:07.480 that it literally feels like the weight of a 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:09.599 collapsing building. Oh, man. Yeah. It's the 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.500 late 80s. You're in Birmingham, England. And 00:00:12.500 --> 00:00:15.919 this noise, it isn't coming from a massive five 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:18.620 -piece metal band with double -kick drums and 00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:20.660 walls of Marshall stacks. Right, which is what 00:00:20.660 --> 00:00:22.899 you'd expect. Exactly. It's coming from two skinny 00:00:22.899 --> 00:00:26.420 guys and a cheap plastic gray box. It sounds 00:00:26.420 --> 00:00:29.039 like a riddle, doesn't it? But you are describing 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:31.800 the birth of Godflesh. And honestly, it's one 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:35.240 of the most significant paradoxes in heavy music 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:37.960 history. It really is, because on paper, this 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.060 just shouldn't have worked. You have Justin Broderick 00:00:40.060 --> 00:00:43.939 on guitar, and BC Green on bass. And today, they're 00:00:43.939 --> 00:00:46.140 widely considered the godfathers of industrial 00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:49.359 metal. If you listen to Nine Inch Nails, or Fear 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:52.500 Factory, or even Modern Metallica, you are hearing 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:55.670 Godflesh's DNA. But here is the thing that threw 00:00:55.670 --> 00:00:58.109 me for a loop when I was digging into our sources 00:00:58.109 --> 00:01:00.509 for this deep dive. Oh, the genre label. Yeah. 00:01:00.649 --> 00:01:02.270 They hate the term industrial metal, don't they? 00:01:02.450 --> 00:01:04.890 They despise it. And that's really the first 00:01:04.890 --> 00:01:07.030 thing we have to untangle today. If you ask Broderick, 00:01:07.269 --> 00:01:11.250 he'll tell you God Flesh is a rock band. Or even 00:01:11.250 --> 00:01:14.769 a pop band. in a very twisted sense. A very twisted 00:01:14.769 --> 00:01:17.510 sense. Very. He claims they were far more influenced 00:01:17.510 --> 00:01:20.170 by the cure, killing joke, and early hip hop 00:01:20.170 --> 00:01:22.409 than they ever were by the metal scene of the 00:01:22.409 --> 00:01:25.329 time. Which sounds insane when you actually listen 00:01:25.329 --> 00:01:27.489 to their first record. I mean, it sounds like 00:01:27.489 --> 00:01:30.269 a foundry exploding. It does. But I guess that's 00:01:30.269 --> 00:01:32.109 the mission for our deep dive today. We've got 00:01:32.109 --> 00:01:35.189 a ton of great sources, a detailed history of 00:01:35.189 --> 00:01:38.230 the band, their entire discography from 1988 00:01:38.230 --> 00:01:40.590 all the way to the present, and some really revealing 00:01:40.590 --> 00:01:42.489 interviews about their philosophy. Yeah, the 00:01:42.489 --> 00:01:44.909 interviews are fascinating. Right. And we need 00:01:44.909 --> 00:01:48.170 to figure out how two guys trying to sound like 00:01:48.170 --> 00:01:51.170 The Cure ended up accidentally inventing the 00:01:51.170 --> 00:01:53.849 heaviest genre on earth with this unique machine 00:01:53.849 --> 00:01:56.620 plus human formula. And maybe more importantly, 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:58.579 why they eventually had to destroy the band to 00:01:58.579 --> 00:02:00.840 save it. Because the story of Godflesh isn't 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.359 just about music. No, it's not. It's about mental 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:07.180 health, financial ruin, and the really strange 00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:10.240 relationship between man and machine. So let's 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:12.460 go right to the scene of the crime. Birmingham. 00:02:13.020 --> 00:02:16.930 Late. 1980s. Now I've visited Birmingham recently 00:02:16.930 --> 00:02:20.349 and it's a lovely modern city today. Sure. But 00:02:20.349 --> 00:02:23.409 the sources paint a very different picture of 00:02:23.409 --> 00:02:25.569 the environment Broderick and Green grew up in. 00:02:25.629 --> 00:02:27.650 Oh it was a totally different world back then. 00:02:27.689 --> 00:02:29.389 You have to understand this was the tail end 00:02:29.389 --> 00:02:32.689 of the Thatcher era in the UK. Right. East Birmingham 00:02:32.689 --> 00:02:36.409 was this bleak landscape of brutalist concrete 00:02:36.409 --> 00:02:39.710 architecture, high unemployment, just, you know, 00:02:39.990 --> 00:02:42.530 gray skies everywhere. Classic industrial grimness. 00:02:42.889 --> 00:02:44.770 Exactly. Broderick and Green grew up in council 00:02:44.770 --> 00:02:47.409 estates, which are basically public housing projects 00:02:47.409 --> 00:02:50.270 that were essentially just giant concrete blocks. 00:02:50.530 --> 00:02:52.389 I actually saw a quote in the interviews where 00:02:52.389 --> 00:02:54.610 Broderick described growing up there as suffocating. 00:02:54.750 --> 00:02:56.830 That is the perfect word for it. It wasn't just 00:02:56.830 --> 00:02:59.409 depressing. It was genuinely oppressive. You 00:02:59.409 --> 00:03:02.430 were surrounded by these massive, unfeeling structures. 00:03:02.909 --> 00:03:05.629 And that environment is so crucial to understand. 00:03:06.050 --> 00:03:08.289 Because Godflesh didn't write songs about Birmingham. 00:03:08.810 --> 00:03:11.430 Their music literally sounded like Birmingham. 00:03:11.509 --> 00:03:13.830 Like the sonic equivalent of concrete. Exactly 00:03:13.830 --> 00:03:15.729 that. Now, they actually started playing together 00:03:15.729 --> 00:03:19.150 way back in 1982, right? But under a different 00:03:19.150 --> 00:03:21.580 name. Fall of Because. Right, they were just 00:03:21.580 --> 00:03:24.020 kids then. And the name Follow Because comes 00:03:24.020 --> 00:03:26.599 from a Killing Joke song, which also references 00:03:26.599 --> 00:03:29.120 an Alistair Crowley chapter. Okay, so that gives 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:31.560 you a hint at their early interests. Yeah, post 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.319 -punk and the occult. But they couldn't quite 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:37.539 get the sound right until they reformed as Godflesh 00:03:37.539 --> 00:03:40.800 in 1988. And even the name Godflesh itself, I 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:43.219 mean, it sounds like a typical death metal band 00:03:43.219 --> 00:03:45.939 name at first glance. It does, yeah. But the 00:03:45.939 --> 00:03:47.599 meaning behind it from the sources is actually 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.800 kind of philosophical. It is really deep. Broderick 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.039 explained that God represents something immense, 00:03:53.699 --> 00:03:56.419 inconceivable, completely abstract, and flesh 00:03:56.419 --> 00:03:59.240 represents the human, the physical, the vulnerable. 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.319 So the music is fundamentally about that collision, 00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:04.879 the massive weight of the universe just crushing 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.120 the fragile human body. Wow. Which perfectly 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.539 brings us to the quote unquote third member of 00:04:11.539 --> 00:04:14.460 the band. The thing providing all that massive 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:18.500 weight. The machine. The Alesis HR -16 drum machine. 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:21.660 Now I looked up a picture of this thing while 00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:24.180 prepping for this deep dive. Yeah. It looks like 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:27.829 a giant gray calculator. or like a weird cash 00:04:27.829 --> 00:04:30.470 register. It does not look metal at all. It's 00:04:30.470 --> 00:04:33.129 totally not. The Alesis HR16 was actually designed 00:04:33.129 --> 00:04:35.910 for pop and hip -hop producers. Really? Yeah. 00:04:36.269 --> 00:04:40.069 It has these very clean, snappy, pristine sounds. 00:04:40.129 --> 00:04:41.649 If you play it right out of the box, it sounds 00:04:41.649 --> 00:04:45.379 like a cheap... 80s dance track. So how on earth 00:04:45.379 --> 00:04:47.339 did they get it to sound like a monster? Because 00:04:47.339 --> 00:04:50.139 on the albums, those drums sound like literal 00:04:50.139 --> 00:04:52.139 cannon fire. Well, this is where the real innovation 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:54.800 happens. They didn't treat the drum machine like 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.040 a percussion instrument. They treated it like 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.079 an electric guitar. They ran the drum machine 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:01.720 through heavy distortion pedals and giant bass 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:04.319 amplifiers. And then they just cranked the volume 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:06.459 until the speakers were physically tearing. Ah, 00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:08.120 so they were essentially abusing the equipment. 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:11.939 completely abusing it. They forced this polite 00:05:11.939 --> 00:05:15.199 little pop machine to scream. And because it 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:17.680 was a machine, it didn't get tired. It didn't 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.939 lose the beat. It just hammered and hammered 00:05:19.939 --> 00:05:22.720 with this terrifying inhuman consistency. And 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.639 from the research, that is a key point. Usually, 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:27.819 bands use drum machines because they want to 00:05:27.819 --> 00:05:30.300 sound robotic or futuristic like Kraftwerk or 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:32.899 something. Right. But Godflesh used it purely 00:05:32.899 --> 00:05:35.240 out of necessity, didn't that? This wasn't a 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.600 stylistic choice at first. Broderick had actually 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:40.540 played drums for Napalm Death, the legendary 00:05:40.540 --> 00:05:43.439 grindcore band. So he knew how to play fast and 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:45.899 aggressive. He was a real drummer. Yeah. But 00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:48.399 when he picked up the guitar to form Godflesh, 00:05:48.819 --> 00:05:51.740 the rhythms he heard in his head were just too 00:05:51.740 --> 00:05:54.459 weird for a human to play properly. How so? They 00:05:54.459 --> 00:05:57.899 were painfully slow, extremely repetitive and 00:05:57.899 --> 00:06:00.620 just grinding. A human drummer would naturally 00:06:00.620 --> 00:06:02.699 get bored or they would instinctively try to 00:06:02.699 --> 00:06:04.879 add a groove or a swing. Oh, to make it more 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:07.480 musical. Right. But Roderick didn't want groove. 00:06:07.699 --> 00:06:10.420 He wanted punishment. Man, that limitation really 00:06:10.420 --> 00:06:13.519 became their defining signature. So in 1988, 00:06:13.579 --> 00:06:16.060 they dropped their self -titled EP. And then 00:06:16.060 --> 00:06:19.560 in 1989, we get the landmark debut album, Street 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.079 Cleaner. Such a great title. It suggests wiping 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:24.660 humanity right off the pavement. It's terrifying. 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:26.800 Yeah. But looking at the production notes for 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.639 Street Cleaner, it's also bizarrely mixed for 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.680 the time. The bass is way louder than the guitar. 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:35.459 Yeah, that is the definitive godflesh sound. 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:38.459 AC Green's bass is actually the lead instrument. 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:42.199 It's incredibly guttural, downtuned, and just 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:44.779 dripping with distortion. And what is the guitar 00:06:44.779 --> 00:06:47.629 doing then? Broderick's guitar isn't really playing 00:06:47.629 --> 00:06:50.089 riffs in the traditional metal sense. He's creating 00:06:50.089 --> 00:06:52.910 texture, high -pitched screeching, waves of feedback, 00:06:53.189 --> 00:06:55.269 sheer noise. It just floats on top of the bass 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:57.470 like a warning siren over a factory. And the 00:06:57.470 --> 00:06:59.949 vocals. Because I struggle to even hear lyrics. 00:07:00.129 --> 00:07:02.750 They're buried on purpose. Broderick isn't singing 00:07:02.750 --> 00:07:04.470 to the audience. He sounds like he's trapped 00:07:04.470 --> 00:07:06.709 inside the mix itself, screaming to get out. 00:07:06.829 --> 00:07:09.410 It's incredibly claustrophobic. And I know they 00:07:09.410 --> 00:07:11.750 were heavily influenced by film, too, which... 00:07:11.629 --> 00:07:14.569 plays into that atmosphere. The cover art for 00:07:14.569 --> 00:07:16.569 Street Cleaner is actually a still from the movie 00:07:16.569 --> 00:07:18.970 Altered States. The Ken Russell film, yes. They 00:07:18.970 --> 00:07:21.810 loved that arthouse horror vibe. And Altered 00:07:21.810 --> 00:07:24.810 States is about a guy regressing to a primal, 00:07:24.829 --> 00:07:28.089 primitive state inside an isolation tank. That 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:30.550 is so fitting. It really is. That's exactly what 00:07:30.550 --> 00:07:33.029 listening to Godflesh feels like. It is isolation 00:07:33.029 --> 00:07:36.170 tank music. So Street Cleaner makes huge waves 00:07:36.170 --> 00:07:39.069 in the underground. They enter the 90s as this 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:41.939 massive cult phenomenon. And then they released 00:07:41.939 --> 00:07:45.279 the album Pure in 1992. Right. Now usually a 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:47.459 heavy band gets faster or maybe more aggressive 00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:50.620 on their follow up. How did Godflesh evolve with 00:07:50.620 --> 00:07:53.500 Pure? They got colder. If Street Cleaner was 00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:56.750 dirty. urban, grime -like mud and rust -pure 00:07:56.750 --> 00:07:58.990 with stainless steel. Ooh, I like that comparison. 00:07:59.209 --> 00:08:01.790 It was cleaner, way more mechanical, and much 00:08:01.790 --> 00:08:03.870 more repetitive. This is where they really laid 00:08:03.870 --> 00:08:06.290 the foundation for what we now call post -metal. 00:08:06.449 --> 00:08:08.649 There's a track on there, Pier 2, that is literally 00:08:08.649 --> 00:08:11.930 just a loop for 20 minutes. It is a total test 00:08:11.930 --> 00:08:14.970 of endurance. It hits like a distant cannon over 00:08:14.970 --> 00:08:17.990 and over again. Brodrick loops this hip -hop 00:08:17.990 --> 00:08:20.449 break beat but slows it down until it sounds 00:08:20.449 --> 00:08:22.750 like a death march. It's almost hypnotic when 00:08:22.750 --> 00:08:25.110 you listen to it. Very hypnotic. You stop hearing 00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:27.449 it as music and start feeling it as a physical 00:08:27.449 --> 00:08:29.970 pulse in your chest. But here is where the story 00:08:29.970 --> 00:08:33.490 gets really messy. The early 90s were a weird 00:08:33.490 --> 00:08:36.370 time in the music industry. Nirvana had just 00:08:36.370 --> 00:08:39.169 exploded. Nine Inch Nails was getting huge. The 00:08:39.169 --> 00:08:42.330 alternative boom. Right. Suddenly, major labels 00:08:42.330 --> 00:08:44.169 are running around frantically looking for the 00:08:44.169 --> 00:08:47.429 next big thing in angry, alternative music. And 00:08:47.429 --> 00:08:49.429 they look at Godflesh, two guys with a machine, 00:08:49.769 --> 00:08:52.769 and they think, dollar signs. Which was a massive 00:08:52.769 --> 00:08:55.629 miscalculation on everyone's part. Godflesh actually 00:08:55.629 --> 00:08:58.330 signed to Columbia Records for their 1994 album, 00:08:58.529 --> 00:09:01.889 Selfless. A major label. Yeah. The label genuinely 00:09:01.889 --> 00:09:03.549 thought they had the next nine inch nails on 00:09:03.549 --> 00:09:05.629 their hands, but they didn't understand the music. 00:09:06.110 --> 00:09:08.710 Trent Reznor writes, pop hooks wrapped in noise. 00:09:08.970 --> 00:09:11.070 Godflesh just writes noise wrapped in noise. 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:13.190 I can only imagine the Columbia executives sitting 00:09:13.190 --> 00:09:15.539 in a boardroom. utterly confused when they got 00:09:15.539 --> 00:09:17.600 those master tapes. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. They 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.700 were probably asking, where is the chorus? Why 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:23.379 is this song eight minutes long? Yeah. It was 00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:25.700 a commercial disaster. It sold maybe one hundred 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:28.259 and eighty thousand copies, which, you know, 00:09:28.419 --> 00:09:31.139 is amazing for an indie punk band. But it's a 00:09:31.139 --> 00:09:33.779 total failure for a major label expecting platinum. 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:36.159 But the commercial failure isn't even the worst 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:39.399 part of the 90s era for them. This is where Broderick 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.120 says they made it. He calls the mistake. Yes. 00:09:42.409 --> 00:09:45.149 the identity crisis. They started hiring human 00:09:45.149 --> 00:09:48.309 drummers. This is so fascinating because in almost 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:51.690 any other context, getting a world -class human 00:09:51.690 --> 00:09:54.490 drummer is a massive upgrade for a band. Right, 00:09:54.629 --> 00:09:57.100 you'd think so. They hired Brian Mantia, who 00:09:57.100 --> 00:10:00.059 played with Primus and Guns N' Roses, and later 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:02.299 they got Ted Parsons from Prong. I mean, these 00:10:02.299 --> 00:10:04.779 are incredible top tier musicians. So why did 00:10:04.779 --> 00:10:06.600 Broderick look back and say it was a mistake? 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.460 Because it humanized them too much. When you 00:10:09.460 --> 00:10:11.779 have a real drummer, they naturally add swing 00:10:11.779 --> 00:10:14.440 and feel to the music. They play slightly ahead 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:16.179 of the beat or slightly behind it. They give 00:10:16.179 --> 00:10:19.230 it a groove. Exactly. It gives the music a groove. 00:10:19.870 --> 00:10:22.250 But Godflesh was never supposed to groove. It 00:10:22.250 --> 00:10:24.590 was always supposed to be a rigid machine. It 00:10:24.590 --> 00:10:26.909 lost that uncanny valley effect that made them 00:10:26.909 --> 00:10:29.090 so scary. Spot on. With a human drummer, they 00:10:29.090 --> 00:10:31.149 just sounded like a really good traditional heavy 00:10:31.149 --> 00:10:34.629 metal band. They lost that terrifying alien stiffness 00:10:34.629 --> 00:10:37.210 that set them apart from everyone else. Ah, I 00:10:37.210 --> 00:10:39.820 see. Broderick later said the music became self 00:10:39.820 --> 00:10:41.879 -conscious. They're trying to be a rock band 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:44.299 rather than this bizarre art project from the 00:10:44.299 --> 00:10:46.720 Birmingham council estates. And that artistic 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:49.559 identity crisis rapidly spirals into a severe 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:53.139 personal crisis. We get to 2002, they've released 00:10:53.139 --> 00:10:55.580 the album Hymns, which features a human drummer, 00:10:55.860 --> 00:10:58.860 and suddenly everything just collapses. It happened 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:02.019 so fast. First... B .C. Green quits the band. 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.799 Wow. This is the guy who has been by Broderick's 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:07.019 side since they were liverly kids and he calls 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:09.299 him up just two weeks before a major U .S. tour 00:11:09.299 --> 00:11:12.500 and says, I'm done. Two weeks. That's not a resignation. 00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:14.759 That's pulling the pin on a grenade. He was just 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:17.100 burnt out. He was tired of the music industry 00:11:17.100 --> 00:11:19.919 nonsense, the bad contracts, the endless grinding 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.360 of touring. He just wanted to go back to university 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:24.740 and live a normal life. So Broderick is completely 00:11:24.740 --> 00:11:28.419 alone. But from the sources, he decides to push 00:11:28.419 --> 00:11:30.700 forward anyway. He tries to. He calls up Paul 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:33.019 Raven from Killing Joke to step in and play bass. 00:11:33.340 --> 00:11:35.659 They have this huge US tour booked with High 00:11:35.659 --> 00:11:38.840 on Fire and ISIS. The hype for this tour is very 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:41.759 real. The hype is real, but Broderick's mental 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.000 state is completely crumbling behind the scenes. 00:11:45.419 --> 00:11:47.179 And this leads to what he notoriously calls his 00:11:47.179 --> 00:11:50.419 Brian Wilson moment. Yeah. The part of the story 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:52.179 is physically painful to read about. It's the 00:11:52.179 --> 00:11:53.960 day before the tour is supposed to start. He's 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:55.659 supposed to go to the airport. He wakes up, and 00:11:55.659 --> 00:11:58.919 he is paralyzed. Just a complete, total nervous 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:01.440 breakdown. Oh, man. He physically cannot get 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.139 out of bed to face the tour. The tour driver 00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:06.240 pulls up to his house in Birmingham to take him 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:09.440 to the airport. And Broderick, he runs. He hid 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.500 from the driver. He literally hid at a friend's 00:12:11.500 --> 00:12:13.320 house. He let the phone ring. He let the driver 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.279 knock on the door. He just curled up in a ball. 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.620 He couldn't do it. And you can't just ghost an 00:12:18.620 --> 00:12:21.090 entire day. international tour in the music industry 00:12:21.090 --> 00:12:23.730 without massive consequences. Oh, absolutely 00:12:23.730 --> 00:12:25.929 not. The financial fallout was immediate and 00:12:25.929 --> 00:12:28.210 catastrophic. He had to refund the promoters 00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:30.429 out of pocket, pay for the useless flights, pay 00:12:30.429 --> 00:12:32.710 the crew who were depending on him. He actually 00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:35.269 had to remortgage his house just to cover the 00:12:35.269 --> 00:12:38.549 debts. That is brutal. He ended up $35 ,000 in 00:12:38.549 --> 00:12:41.830 debt overnight with no band, no label, and no 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:45.129 income. So Godflesh didn't just break up. It 00:12:45.129 --> 00:12:47.940 imploded. It was a crater. Yeah. And Broderick 00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:50.059 spends the next few years doing a new project 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:52.940 called Jayzoo, which is this really beautiful, 00:12:53.259 --> 00:12:56.399 sad, melodic shoegaze music. It feels very much 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:58.440 like therapy music. It absolutely was therapy. 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:00.679 It was him processing the trauma of the breakdown. 00:13:00.820 --> 00:13:03.120 And for a long time, everyone, including Broderick 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:05.220 himself, thought Godflesh was dead and buried 00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:08.840 forever. But time heals all wounds. And apparently, 00:13:09.019 --> 00:13:10.980 crippling credit card debt helps motivate you, 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.539 too. Fast forward to 2009. Right. Promoters are 00:13:14.539 --> 00:13:17.070 starting to offer insane amounts of money. for 00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:20.590 a godflesh reunion. So Broadbrick calls Green, 00:13:21.070 --> 00:13:24.909 and Green actually says yes. He does. But, and 00:13:24.909 --> 00:13:26.549 this is the crucial part of the whole narrative, 00:13:27.149 --> 00:13:29.429 they have a strict condition for coming back. 00:13:29.649 --> 00:13:32.330 The condition was very simple. The machine comes 00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:34.809 back. No more human drummers? No humans allowed 00:13:34.809 --> 00:13:36.929 behind the kit. If they were going to do this 00:13:36.929 --> 00:13:38.710 reunion, they had to go back to the original 00:13:38.710 --> 00:13:41.830 source, just the two of them, and a laptop functioning 00:13:41.830 --> 00:13:45.360 as the drum machine. Wow. They finally realized 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.740 that the mistake of the 90s was trying to fix 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:50.539 something that was never broken. The stiffness, 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:53.460 the mechanical rigidity, that was the magic all 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:56.440 along. And you know, usually reunion albums are 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:58.159 terrible. Let's just be honest. Oh, they're usually 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.399 just cash grabs. Exactly. But they eventually 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:05.159 release a world lit only by fire in 2014. And 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.700 it is ferocious. I mean, it charted in the US, 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.759 which was a first for them. It might honestly 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.279 be heavier than their early stuff. Broderick 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:14.279 switched to playing an eight -string guitar for 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:17.220 that record. Yeah, tuning it down so unbelievably 00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:19.440 low that the strings were practically flapping 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:23.379 off the fretboard. It was minimal, brutal, and 00:14:23.379 --> 00:14:26.539 primal. A total return to form. Exactly. It was 00:14:26.539 --> 00:14:28.899 the sound of two middle -aged men letting out 00:14:28.899 --> 00:14:32.519 20 years of pent -up frustration. The critics 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.580 absolutely loved it. And they didn't stop there. 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.759 This is what I missed initially before doing 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.100 the research. They kept evolving. They didn't 00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.779 just become a nostalgia act playing the old hits 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:44.679 on the festival circuit. No, not at all. Look 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.320 at their 2017 album, Post Self. They pivoted 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:50.000 again. Instead of just relying on heavy riffs, 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.340 they brought back the mood and noise aspects 00:14:52.340 --> 00:14:54.379 of their sound. Kind of leaning back into their 00:14:54.379 --> 00:14:57.100 post -punk roots. Yeah, it's a very atmospheric, 00:14:57.580 --> 00:14:59.840 texture -heavy album. Almost like their experimental 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.480 work in the 90s, but somehow even darker. And 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:05.259 then as recently as 2023, they dropped the album. 00:15:05.070 --> 00:15:08.210 Purge. Purge is fascinating because it's almost 00:15:08.210 --> 00:15:11.590 a spiritual successor to the 1992 album Pure. 00:15:11.970 --> 00:15:13.809 They brought back those hip hop break beats we 00:15:13.809 --> 00:15:15.970 talked about earlier. Right. It has this bouncy 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:19.190 rhythmic quality to it but it's still completely 00:15:19.190 --> 00:15:21.629 crushed under that signature heavy distortion. 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:24.269 It shows that they are still actively exploring 00:15:24.269 --> 00:15:26.610 that weird intersection of hip hop and extreme 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:29.350 metal even well into their 50s. I want to make 00:15:29.350 --> 00:15:31.350 sure we touch on the themes before we wrap up 00:15:31.350 --> 00:15:33.629 because we talked a lot about how angry the music 00:15:33.629 --> 00:15:35.960 sounds. But Broderick has a really interesting 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:38.539 take on the concept of aggression in their music. 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.980 He does. He explicitly compares godflesh to what 00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:46.279 he calls macho metal. This is a critical distinction 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.039 to make. A lot of traditional metal, if you think 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.460 of bands like Manowar or Pantera, is fundamentally 00:15:52.460 --> 00:15:56.080 about projecting power. Right. It's very, I am 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:59.440 strong, I am the conqueror. Exactly. It's a celebration 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:04.039 of male ego and dominance. Godflesh is the complete 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.919 and total opposite of that. How so? Roderick 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:09.080 says their music is about the feeling of being 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:12.240 crushed and pulverized by the world. It's defensive 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:14.480 aggression. Defensive aggression? Yeah, it's 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:16.559 the sound of a vulnerable person putting up a 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.000 massive, noisy shield because they feel like 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.080 the world is constantly attacking them. That 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:22.940 makes so much sense. If you grow up in those 00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:25.519 suffocating Birmingham council estates, you don't 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.080 feel like a conqueror. You feel incredibly small. 00:16:28.460 --> 00:16:30.740 Precisely. And honestly, that explains their 00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:33.360 constant use of religious imagery, too. All right, 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.230 you see crosses burning. churches on the art 00:16:36.230 --> 00:16:39.210 track titles like Christ Bait or Hymns. Yeah, 00:16:39.210 --> 00:16:41.870 but they aren't a Christian band at all. Broderick 00:16:41.870 --> 00:16:44.950 uses that imagery specifically because he finds 00:16:44.950 --> 00:16:47.830 it terrifying. It's the literal fear of God. 00:16:47.950 --> 00:16:50.809 He describes organized religion as intimidating 00:16:50.809 --> 00:16:53.710 and suffocating. Think about the architecture 00:16:53.710 --> 00:16:56.309 of a massive Gothic cathedral. It's designed 00:16:56.309 --> 00:16:59.269 to make you feel tiny and insignificant. That's 00:16:59.269 --> 00:17:01.549 a great point. That is the exact same feeling 00:17:01.549 --> 00:17:04.150 he wants the music to evoke in The Listener. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.480 It's not about religious worship, it's about 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.500 awe, and it's about terror. So when we look at 00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:12.799 their legacy overall, I mean, you can't throw 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.279 a rock at a modern metal festival without hitting 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.319 a band that owes Godflesh money. It's the classic 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.700 Velvet Underground effect. Godflesh didn't sell 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:22.440 millions of records themselves, but it seems 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.119 like everyone who bought one went out and started 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.839 a band. Totally. Kirk Hammett from Metallica 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.769 openly lists them as a favorite. Fear Factory 00:17:29.769 --> 00:17:32.430 basically took the Godflesh formula, the machine 00:17:32.430 --> 00:17:35.009 drums mixed with heavy staccato guitars, and 00:17:35.009 --> 00:17:37.009 just made it slightly more pop friendly. You 00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:41.529 hear their influence in Korn, in Faith. No more 00:17:41.529 --> 00:17:43.750 Mike Patton actually invited Brodrick to join 00:17:43.750 --> 00:17:45.569 Faith No More at one point. I didn't know that. 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:47.930 Yeah. There's a great quote from the website 00:17:47.930 --> 00:17:50.650 Metal Sucks that sums it up perfectly. They wrote, 00:17:51.069 --> 00:17:53.170 everyone from Nine Inch Nails to Fear Factory 00:17:53.170 --> 00:17:55.410 probably owes these dudes a couple of checks. 00:17:55.670 --> 00:17:57.750 But Godflesh never really got the stadium checks, 00:17:57.789 --> 00:17:59.980 did they? No, they didn't. And Broderick says 00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:02.319 he's perfectly fine with that. He said they were 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:06.180 always destined to be a musician's band. Too 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:08.740 uncompromising. Way too uncompromising. If they 00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:11.240 had sold out to get those stadium checks, they 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:13.359 would have had to ditch the drum machine way 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:15.900 sooner or start writing traditional choruses, 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.539 and they just refused to play that game. It's 00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:21.200 a hell of a journey for you to take in. Two kids 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.940 in a concrete jungle who couldn't find a drummer 00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.259 weird enough for their vision, so they just used 00:18:26.259 --> 00:18:29.279 a plastic box meant for pop music. They accidentally 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:31.859 invent a massive genre, they try to become rock 00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:34.460 stars with human drummers, they lose absolutely 00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:36.599 everything, and then they finally find their 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.039 redemption by going right back to the box. It 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.240 really proves that sometimes limitations are 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:43.799 better than absolute freedom. When they could 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:46.180 do anything, when they could hire procession 00:18:46.180 --> 00:18:49.039 drummers and use million -dollar studios, they 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.400 lost their way. They lost their identity. But 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.480 when they restricted themselves back to just 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.309 the machine, they found their soul again. Which 00:18:57.309 --> 00:18:59.309 leaves you with a really fascinating thought 00:18:59.309 --> 00:19:02.369 to chew on. We are living in the age of AI music 00:19:02.369 --> 00:19:05.950 right now. We have digital tools today that are 00:19:05.950 --> 00:19:08.890 quote unquote perfect. They're quantized, they're 00:19:08.890 --> 00:19:12.049 pitch corrected, they are flawless in every technical 00:19:12.049 --> 00:19:14.009 sense. Oh absolutely, everything is perfectly 00:19:14.009 --> 00:19:18.089 on the grid. But Godflesh used a primitive clunky 00:19:18.089 --> 00:19:21.789 machine to make music that felt incredibly raw, 00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:25.259 emotional, and human. It raises a really wild 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:27.859 question. Does the flaw actually make it human? 00:19:28.099 --> 00:19:30.640 Exactly. Does a primitive machine struggling 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.900 to sound like a monster actually sound more fundamentally 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:36.539 human than a perfect AI trying to sound like 00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:39.140 a person? Man, maybe the struggle itself is the 00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:41.380 point. Maybe it is. That is definitely something 00:19:41.380 --> 00:19:43.920 for you to explore on your own. Thanks for diving 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.299 deep into the brutal world of Godflesh with us. 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:49.259 It was a heavy one. Sure was. Go listen to Street 00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:51.099 Cleaner, but maybe keep the lights on while you 00:19:51.099 --> 00:19:52.400 do. We'll see you next time.