WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.319 Hello and welcome back to The Deep Dive. Today 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:07.200 we're opening up a file that honestly it feels 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:09.859 a bit like stumbling into a room where time has 00:00:09.859 --> 00:00:12.300 just completely stopped. Oh, absolutely. Because 00:00:12.300 --> 00:00:15.179 we're looking at a political party that operated 00:00:15.179 --> 00:00:18.339 in the modern era. I mean literally well into 00:00:18.339 --> 00:00:21.510 the age of iPhones and Facebook. If you listen 00:00:21.510 --> 00:00:25.390 to them speak or looked at their logos, you'd 00:00:25.390 --> 00:00:27.670 swear you were standing in 1930s Europe. Yeah, 00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:30.370 it really is a case of extreme historical displacement. 00:00:30.530 --> 00:00:32.310 We're talking about a group that didn't just 00:00:32.310 --> 00:00:34.450 look back at history fondly. You know, they tried 00:00:34.450 --> 00:00:36.829 to physically drag the past into the present, 00:00:37.390 --> 00:00:39.810 kicking and screaming. And the name of this group 00:00:39.810 --> 00:00:42.750 is arguably the most deceptive thing about them. 00:00:42.810 --> 00:00:44.310 If you saw it on a ballot, you'd probably just 00:00:44.310 --> 00:00:47.009 gloss right over it. It's called Everything for 00:00:47.009 --> 00:00:49.829 the Country. Right, which sounds incredibly generic. 00:00:49.829 --> 00:00:51.490 Really does. Everything for the country. I mean, 00:00:51.570 --> 00:00:53.969 it's the kind of slogan you'd expect from a, 00:00:53.969 --> 00:00:56.289 I don't know, a center -right, mild -mannered 00:00:56.289 --> 00:00:59.329 agrarian party. It sounds safe, patriotic in 00:00:59.329 --> 00:01:02.210 a very vanilla way. Exactly. But as soon as you 00:01:02.210 --> 00:01:03.890 start digging into the records, and we have a 00:01:03.890 --> 00:01:06.969 massive stack of legal documents, member biographies, 00:01:07.290 --> 00:01:09.969 court rulings here, you realize that this name 00:01:09.969 --> 00:01:12.530 is actually a very specific, very loud signal. 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:15.200 to a very specific group of people. That's right, 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:17.760 because to the uninitiated, it's just a slogan. 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:19.939 But to those in the know specifically, those 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:22.640 familiar with Romania's interwar history, that 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:26.040 name is radioactive. So our mission today for 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.120 you, the listener, is to unpack the strange life 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:30.980 and the eventual death of the Everything for 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.299 the Country Party or the TPT. We're going to 00:01:34.299 --> 00:01:38.799 look at how a party founded in 1993. try to literally 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.459 resurrect one of the most violent fascist movements 00:01:41.459 --> 00:01:43.819 of the 20th century. We'll look at why it attracted 00:01:43.819 --> 00:01:46.180 famous actors and university professors, and 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:47.920 why the government finally wiped it off the political 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.319 map in 2015. And I think the key theme here for 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:52.900 us to keep in mind is this idea of a time capsule. 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.219 We need to understand how a political movement 00:01:55.219 --> 00:01:58.060 can essentially freeze itself in amber, survive 00:01:58.060 --> 00:02:02.480 40 years of communism, and then try to thaw itself 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:04.700 out in a democracy, just expecting everyone to 00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:06.829 get on board. Let's start with the origins then. 00:02:07.170 --> 00:02:09.830 The timeline is super important here. The party 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:13.330 officially kicks off on January 30th, 1993. Right. 00:02:13.770 --> 00:02:16.129 So Romania is only a few years out from the revolution. 00:02:16.710 --> 00:02:19.669 The dictator Ceaușescu is dead. Communism is 00:02:19.669 --> 00:02:22.229 over. And the political landscape is basically 00:02:22.229 --> 00:02:25.229 the Wild West. It was a wildly chaotic time. 00:02:25.349 --> 00:02:27.129 And in that kind of vacuum, you had people just 00:02:27.129 --> 00:02:29.909 scrambling for identity. Because when the future 00:02:29.909 --> 00:02:32.409 is that uncertain, a lot of people look to the 00:02:32.409 --> 00:02:34.710 past for a blueprint. But they didn't start with 00:02:34.710 --> 00:02:36.689 the name Everything for the Country. No, they 00:02:36.689 --> 00:02:38.629 didn't. When they first launched in 93, they 00:02:38.629 --> 00:02:40.849 called themselves the For the Fatherland party, 00:02:41.469 --> 00:02:44.169 which is similar, obviously, but distinct. But 00:02:44.169 --> 00:02:47.629 eventually, they made the pivot to Partidal Duro 00:02:47.629 --> 00:02:50.930 Pinchuara. Everything for the Country. So why 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:53.650 the change? I mean, was For the Fatherland just 00:02:53.650 --> 00:02:55.669 not catchy enough? It wasn't about marketing 00:02:55.669 --> 00:02:57.770 at all. It was about lineage. They wanted to 00:02:57.770 --> 00:03:00.110 claim the inheritance. You see, everything for 00:03:00.110 --> 00:03:03.150 the country was the exact legal name used by 00:03:03.150 --> 00:03:06.590 the Iron Guard, specifically the political arm 00:03:06.590 --> 00:03:09.449 of the legionary movement starting back in 1935. 00:03:09.810 --> 00:03:12.069 OK, we need to pause here and unpack Iron Guard 00:03:12.069 --> 00:03:15.389 and legionary movement because those terms might 00:03:15.389 --> 00:03:17.310 sound like something out of a fantasy novel to 00:03:17.310 --> 00:03:19.370 some listeners. What are we actually dealing 00:03:19.370 --> 00:03:21.719 with when we say Iron Guard? We are dealing with 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:24.599 a very unique beast in the history of European 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:27.319 fascism. Most people know the German or Italian 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:29.219 varieties, right, which were focused heavily 00:03:29.219 --> 00:03:33.099 on the state or race or imperial expansion. The 00:03:33.099 --> 00:03:36.419 Romanian Iron Guard was different. It was intensely, 00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:39.479 almost fanatically religious. Right. I've seen 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:42.080 the sources describe it as almost a death cult. 00:03:42.349 --> 00:03:45.210 That is not an exaggeration. It was highly mystical. 00:03:45.330 --> 00:03:48.009 They viewed their political struggle as a literal 00:03:48.009 --> 00:03:50.729 spiritual war for the salvation of the nation's 00:03:50.729 --> 00:03:53.949 soul. They emphasize sacrifice, martyrdom, and 00:03:53.949 --> 00:03:56.770 a very, very rigid interpretation of Orthodox 00:03:56.770 --> 00:03:59.590 Christianity. So when this new party in 1993 00:03:59.590 --> 00:04:03.189 changes its name to match the 1935 party, they 00:04:03.189 --> 00:04:04.750 aren't just saying, hey, we are nationalists. 00:04:04.810 --> 00:04:07.469 They are explicitly saying, we are the spiritual 00:04:07.469 --> 00:04:10.039 successors to that mysticism. Precisely. They 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:12.379 were planting a massive flag. They explicitly 00:04:12.379 --> 00:04:15.680 claimed the legacy of Cornelius Alea Codrani. 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.639 He was the founder, right? Yes, the charismatic 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.180 founder of the Iron Guard. And the documents 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:24.699 we're looking at classify the PPT as neo -legionary 00:04:24.699 --> 00:04:27.199 and Romanian ultra -nationalist. So they weren't 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.160 trying to modernize the ideology to fit the 1990s. 00:04:30.420 --> 00:04:32.180 They were trying to act as if the intervening 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:34.220 50 years just hadn't happened. I noticed in their 00:04:34.220 --> 00:04:37.139 charter, their core doctrine is listed as national 00:04:37.139 --> 00:04:39.360 Christian. which is the defining feature. In 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:41.899 their view, you cannot be a true Romanian unless 00:04:41.899 --> 00:04:44.519 you are also an Orthodox Christian. Identity 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.180 and faith are entirely fused together. And their 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:49.959 slogan really sums up that worldview perfectly. 00:04:51.019 --> 00:04:55.819 Unity, faith, action, or in Romanian, unitate, 00:04:56.579 --> 00:05:00.160 crediniae, acunae. It's essentially a checklist 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:02.759 for their ideal society. Unity is the ethnic 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:05.040 collective, everyone moving as one. Faith is 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.959 a mandatory religious adherence. And action? 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.680 Well, historically, action with legionaries meant 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:12.899 violence. It meant assassinations. It meant taking 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:14.920 matters into your own hands. And that's the scary 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:17.339 part, isn't it? In the 90s, they claimed to be 00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:20.060 nonviolent, operating within the law. But by 00:05:20.060 --> 00:05:22.480 using the word action alongside that specific 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.199 historical name, they are knowingly nodding to 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.649 a deeply violent history. It's a dog whistle 00:05:27.649 --> 00:05:29.589 that sounds like a foghorn if you know what you're 00:05:29.589 --> 00:05:32.769 listening for. So we had this party in the 1990s 00:05:32.769 --> 00:05:37.310 and 2000s basically cosplaying as a movement 00:05:37.310 --> 00:05:40.250 from the 1930s. What I really want to understand 00:05:40.250 --> 00:05:42.970 is the people. Yeah. Who actually signs up for 00:05:42.970 --> 00:05:45.389 this. Yeah. Because when I picture a neo -fascist 00:05:45.389 --> 00:05:48.189 party, I have a very specific stereotype in my 00:05:48.189 --> 00:05:52.350 head. angry young men, shaved heads, combat boots. 00:05:52.529 --> 00:05:55.189 The standard street thug stereotype. Exactly. 00:05:55.709 --> 00:05:58.410 But looking at the leadership list of the TPT 00:05:58.410 --> 00:06:01.370 and our sources, that stereotype just completely 00:06:01.370 --> 00:06:03.550 falls apart. It does. And that is what makes 00:06:03.550 --> 00:06:05.829 this case study so fascinating. The leadership 00:06:05.829 --> 00:06:08.490 structure wasn't a street gang. It was a carefully 00:06:08.490 --> 00:06:11.050 constructed alliance between two very different 00:06:11.050 --> 00:06:12.850 types of people. Let's look at the man at the 00:06:12.850 --> 00:06:15.620 top, the president, Virgil Totalescu. On paper, 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.420 he's a teacher from Zutatava. Sounds like a mild 00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:19.959 -mannered guy you'd see at a parent -teacher 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:21.779 conference. Right, but then you look at his biography. 00:06:21.860 --> 00:06:23.740 This wasn't just the schoolteacher. Totoescu 00:06:23.740 --> 00:06:25.959 was a member of an armed militia connected to 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:28.120 the anti -communist resistance. He was a literal 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:31.279 fighter. He was a partisan. And he paid a heavy 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.439 price for it. He served prison time from 1948 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:38.759 to 1964. Sixteen years. Sixteen years in a communist 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.360 prison. That is a lifetime, and you have to understand 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:43.259 the kind of capital that gives him within this 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:45.639 group. In the eyes of the party members, he's 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.899 not a politician. He's a living martyr. He suffered 00:06:48.899 --> 00:06:51.899 for the cause, and he didn't break. So he provides 00:06:51.899 --> 00:06:54.740 the moral authority, the street cred, or I guess 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:57.279 the prison cred. Exactly. If you're a young nationalist 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:59.959 in 1995 and your leader is a guy who actually 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:02.079 fought in the mountains and spent 16 years in 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.420 a cell, you listen to him. He is the direct physical 00:07:05.420 --> 00:07:07.759 bridge to the past they idolized. But he wasn't 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.279 running it alone. And this is where the mix gets 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:13.220 really interesting. The executive president was 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:16.180 a man named Katalin Magyar. He's not a militia 00:07:16.180 --> 00:07:19.160 man. He's a PhD professor with a degree in history. 00:07:19.300 --> 00:07:20.980 And there's the other half of the equation. You 00:07:20.980 --> 00:07:23.240 have the martyr Toto Escu and you have the intellectual 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:26.139 Magyar. Magyar provides the theoretical framework. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.920 He can argue the ideology from an academic standpoint, 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.839 citing sources and historical precedents. It's 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.060 an attempt to legitimize the whole movement. 00:07:34.420 --> 00:07:37.300 They're saying we aren't just angry. We are intellectually 00:07:37.300 --> 00:07:40.240 right, and here is the history to prove it. Precisely. 00:07:40.300 --> 00:07:42.639 And he wasn't the only one. The Secretary General, 00:07:42.899 --> 00:07:45.240 Florin de Brescu, was also a professor, but with 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:47.019 a degree in geography. History and geography. 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.620 The two absolute pillars of nationalism. This 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:52.360 is our story history, and this is our land geography. 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:55.439 Having professors in these specific roles allows 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:58.199 the party to present itself not as a fringe hate 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:00.800 group, but as a serious school of thought. But 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:02.680 they definitely kept the action element in the 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:05.839 mix, too. The Vice President, Cornelius Suleiman, 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.000 he's listed as a constructor and entrepreneur, 00:08:08.060 --> 00:08:10.279 which are very modern titles, but his backstory 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:13.319 mirrors Toruescu's. Yes, he was formerly imprisoned 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.180 for armed anti -communist militancy. And then 00:08:16.180 --> 00:08:18.720 rounding it out, you have C. Bashu, a lawyer 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.240 and economist with a PhD in law. It's a very 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:23.399 calculated structure, isn't it? You have the 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:26.100 men of action, the former prisoners, the fighters 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:28.399 working side by side with the men of letters, 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:32.360 the lawyers, historians and geographers. It suggests 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.730 they were trying to build a hierarchy that appealed 00:08:34.730 --> 00:08:37.570 to the entire spectrum of the right wing, the 00:08:37.570 --> 00:08:39.470 intellectuals who wanted to debate philosophy, 00:08:40.110 --> 00:08:42.490 and the hardliners who respected the ultimate 00:08:42.490 --> 00:08:44.929 sacrifice of prison. It's basically a big tent 00:08:44.929 --> 00:08:47.409 strategy for a very, very small tent. That is 00:08:47.409 --> 00:08:49.509 a perfect way to describe it, a very intense, 00:08:49.649 --> 00:08:52.769 very small tent. Speaking of who was inside that 00:08:52.769 --> 00:08:54.610 tent, this is the part of the source material 00:08:54.610 --> 00:08:57.450 that really surprised me. It wasn't just obscure 00:08:57.450 --> 00:09:00.210 political figures or academics. There were some 00:09:00.210 --> 00:09:02.370 genuinely famous people involved with this party. 00:09:02.529 --> 00:09:04.149 That's right. This is where the cultural roots 00:09:04.149 --> 00:09:06.330 of the movement really show. It wasn't just a 00:09:06.330 --> 00:09:08.529 political clique. It had tendrils deep in the 00:09:08.529 --> 00:09:10.809 arts. The name that jumped out at me immediately 00:09:10.809 --> 00:09:14.529 was Ernest Mafte. Badia Ernest, the grandfather 00:09:14.529 --> 00:09:17.679 figure of Romanian cinema. Yeah. I mean, if you 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.179 are Romanian, you probably grew up watching this 00:09:20.179 --> 00:09:23.340 guy. He's a legend. He has this kindly bearded, 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:26.440 wise old man vibe in all his films. And yet here 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:29.360 he is listed as a prominent member of a neo -legionary 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.100 party. It creates a massive cognitive dissonance, 00:09:32.379 --> 00:09:34.679 doesn't it? But you have to remember his history. 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.980 Despite his later artistic success and beloved 00:09:37.980 --> 00:09:41.240 public persona, Mafte was convicted in his youth 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.169 for militant activities in the Iron Guard. He 00:09:44.169 --> 00:09:46.429 was part of that generation in the 30s that was 00:09:46.429 --> 00:09:48.809 completely swept up in the fervor. And they just 00:09:48.809 --> 00:09:51.620 never let it go. Seemingly not. While many people 00:09:51.620 --> 00:09:53.840 renounced their past to survive under communism, 00:09:53.980 --> 00:09:56.919 or simply changed their minds as they aged, Maftey 00:09:56.919 --> 00:09:58.759 seems to have hauled onto those core convictions 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:01.600 privately. When the TPT formed in the 90s, it 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.919 was like a homecoming for him. It's fascinating. 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:06.139 It really shows how deep these roots go for some 00:10:06.139 --> 00:10:07.840 people. It wasn't just a political opinion for 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.379 them. It was a core identity. And speaking of 00:10:10.379 --> 00:10:12.519 identity, we absolutely have to talk about Ayan 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:14.980 Gavrilo Ogaranu, because if Toto Eski was the 00:10:14.980 --> 00:10:17.960 martyr, Ogaranu was the action hero. This guy's 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.100 story is wild. He wasn't just a member. He was 00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:23.820 a legend in these circles. Ogeranu was the leader 00:10:23.820 --> 00:10:26.860 of the Iron Youth initially, but his real claim 00:10:26.860 --> 00:10:29.840 to fame came after World War II. When the Soviets 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:32.259 took over and the communists established power, 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.679 Ogeranu didn't surrender. And he didn't flee 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.700 to the West, he took to the mountains. The Fygarai 00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:41.799 Mountains? Right. He led a partisan group, a 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:44.120 literal armed insurgency against the communist 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.629 state. And we aren't talking for a few months. 00:10:46.809 --> 00:10:50.230 He evaded capture for decades. He was sentenced 00:10:50.230 --> 00:10:53.129 to death in absentia multiple times. He's essentially 00:10:53.129 --> 00:10:56.210 living out a war movie for nearly 30 years. Exactly. 00:10:56.330 --> 00:10:59.750 So for the TPT, having Ogeranu associated with 00:10:59.750 --> 00:11:02.610 the party was a massive coup. He was a living, 00:11:02.730 --> 00:11:05.389 breathing symbol of resistance. He validated 00:11:05.389 --> 00:11:07.350 their claim that the fight never truly ended. 00:11:07.409 --> 00:11:09.570 It just moved to the mountains. And the list 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:11.669 of notables goes on. You have Nikoli Percurea, 00:11:11.669 --> 00:11:14.129 who was a wood sculptor. You have Ion Brad. a 00:11:14.129 --> 00:11:16.669 biochemist. Showing that the ideology really 00:11:16.669 --> 00:11:18.850 permeated the arts and the hard sciences. And 00:11:18.850 --> 00:11:20.789 religion, obviously. There are priests listed 00:11:20.789 --> 00:11:23.269 in the documents, too. Yeah. Constantine Vuchescu 00:11:23.269 --> 00:11:26.190 and Dumitru Balasha. Both of whom are also historians 00:11:26.190 --> 00:11:29.169 or dissidents. And the connection with the clergy 00:11:29.169 --> 00:11:32.590 is vital here. The Iron Guard, and by extension 00:11:32.590 --> 00:11:36.230 the TPT, viewed themselves as the ultimate defenders 00:11:36.230 --> 00:11:39.070 of the Orthodox faith against atheistic communism. 00:11:39.570 --> 00:11:42.649 Having actual priests in the ranks validates 00:11:42.649 --> 00:11:44.990 that spiritual mission. It tells the voters, 00:11:45.490 --> 00:11:48.210 God is literally on our side. So looking at this 00:11:48.210 --> 00:11:49.929 roster, you'd think they would be a force to 00:11:49.929 --> 00:11:52.129 be reckoned with. You have the war heroes, the 00:11:52.129 --> 00:11:54.509 famous actor, the professors, the priests. It 00:11:54.509 --> 00:11:56.990 sounds like a formidable coalition. On paper, 00:11:57.210 --> 00:11:59.610 yes, it sounds incredibly impressive. But in 00:11:59.610 --> 00:12:02.149 reality, despite the slogan unity, they couldn't 00:12:02.149 --> 00:12:04.450 stay together. Well, that's the classic paradox 00:12:04.450 --> 00:12:06.730 of radical movements, isn't it? The pursuit of 00:12:06.730 --> 00:12:09.370 ideological purity inevitably leads to purging 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:12.009 your own friends. When you build a movement based 00:12:12.009 --> 00:12:13.970 on being the most nationalist, the most loyal, 00:12:14.470 --> 00:12:16.110 eventually someone is going to accuse you of 00:12:16.110 --> 00:12:18.690 not being loyal enough. So what actually happened 00:12:18.690 --> 00:12:21.110 to break them up? Around the year 2000, there 00:12:21.110 --> 00:12:24.370 was a significant split. a major faction broke 00:12:24.370 --> 00:12:26.409 away from the TPT leadership. And this wasn't 00:12:26.409 --> 00:12:28.269 just a small splinter group that disappeared 00:12:28.269 --> 00:12:31.029 into the ether, was it? No, this group became 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:34.429 the new Adraptah, or the new right. If you follow 00:12:34.429 --> 00:12:36.250 current European politics, you might have actually 00:12:36.250 --> 00:12:38.409 heard that name, they are still quite active 00:12:38.409 --> 00:12:41.309 today. How are they different from the TPT? Think 00:12:41.309 --> 00:12:44.200 of it as a generational update. The TPT was a 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:46.519 time capsule party. They wanted to be the Iron 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.700 Guard of 1935, wearing the green shirts using 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:52.799 the old interwar language. The new Adrepta wanted 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.440 the exact same core ideology, but packaged for 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.539 the 21st century. They adopted modern branding, 00:12:58.899 --> 00:13:01.080 internet tactics, different optics entirely. 00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:04.379 So the TPT was the dinosaur and the new Adrepta 00:13:04.379 --> 00:13:06.580 was the bird that evolved from it. That's a great 00:13:06.580 --> 00:13:09.259 analogy. And while the bird flew off, the dinosaur 00:13:09.259 --> 00:13:11.950 was left to slowly go extinct. Which brings us 00:13:11.950 --> 00:13:14.929 to the end of the story. May 2015. The party 00:13:14.929 --> 00:13:17.210 is officially dissolved and erased from the registry. 00:13:17.370 --> 00:13:19.210 And it wasn't a dramatic revolution that took 00:13:19.210 --> 00:13:21.690 them down. It was a very dry court order from 00:13:21.690 --> 00:13:24.110 the High Court of Cassation and Justice. The 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:26.230 ban is interesting because it attacked the party 00:13:26.230 --> 00:13:28.269 from two completely different angles. It was 00:13:28.269 --> 00:13:30.769 a one -two punch from the state. Right. And those 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:33.210 two reasons tell two very different stories about 00:13:33.210 --> 00:13:35.250 why the party ultimately failed. Let's break 00:13:35.250 --> 00:13:37.950 them down. The first reason was ideological. 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:40.759 The authorities finally cited the neo -fascist 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:43.240 character of the party. Which, based on everything 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.220 we've discussed today, the name, the legacy of 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:47.580 Kodrianu, the slogan seems like something that 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:51.220 was obvious from day one in 1993. Why did it 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:53.620 take 22 years to ban them for being fascists? 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.340 That is the million dollar question. Part of 00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:58.919 it is just the slow grind of legal bureaucracy, 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.700 but a much bigger part of it is likely the changing 00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:05.720 political climate. By 2015, Romania is firmly 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.419 in the European Union, firmly in NATO. The domestic 00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:11.480 and international tolerance for this kind of 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:14.419 legacy fascism had completely evaporated. The 00:14:14.419 --> 00:14:16.940 state finally just said, you cannot use democratic 00:14:16.940 --> 00:14:19.399 laws to promote an anti -democratic ideology. 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.379 So reason one, you are illegal because of what 00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:25.139 you believe. But reason two is much more practical. 00:14:25.580 --> 00:14:27.440 And honestly, it's a bit humiliating for them. 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.700 Yes, the administrative reason. The electoral 00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:33.559 law in Romania requires a party to demonstrate 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:36.200 a certain level of public support to stay registered. 00:14:36.899 --> 00:14:39.360 Specifically, you need to obtain a minimum of 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.980 50 ,000 votes in an election. 50 ,000. In a country 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:47.159 of roughly 19 or 20 million people, that is not 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:49.799 a huge number. It's really not. It's a very low 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.940 bar for a national party. And they couldn't hit 00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:54.179 it. They couldn't even get close. This is the 00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:56.460 part that fascinates me. We just spent 10 minutes 00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:58.600 talking about how they had these legendary figures, 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.379 Ogeranu the hero, Mufti the movie star. You'd 00:15:02.379 --> 00:15:04.259 think they could get 50 ,000 people to vote for 00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:07.240 them just on name recognition alone. It reveals 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:10.059 the massive difference between respect and support. 00:15:10.659 --> 00:15:12.940 A Romanian voter might look at Ogeranu and say, 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.340 I respect that you fought the communists in the 00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:17.940 mountains. You are a brave man. But that does 00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:19.840 not mean they want him running the economy in 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.179 2015. The documents show they had a membership 00:15:22.179 --> 00:15:25.179 of around 5000 people in 2014. Which is a decent 00:15:25.179 --> 00:15:27.460 size for a club. If you have a local book club 00:15:27.460 --> 00:15:30.480 with 5 ,000 members, that's huge. But for a national 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.779 political party, it's microscopic. That gap from 00:15:33.779 --> 00:15:36.559 5 ,000 true believers to the required 50 ,000 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:39.080 voters is the time capsule problem we started 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.600 with. They were speaking a dead language. Exactly. 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:45.639 They were selling a 1930s solution to 2010s problems. 00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:48.759 While the TPT was talking about mystical nationalism 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.240 and the bones of ancestors, the average voter 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:53.639 was worried about inflation, corruption, jobs, 00:15:53.779 --> 00:15:57.259 and infrastructure. The TPT had intensity. Their 00:15:57.259 --> 00:15:59.379 members were diehards, but they had zero breath. 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.039 So the ban was almost the final nail in a coffin. 00:16:01.929 --> 00:16:04.029 that was already being built by their own lack 00:16:04.029 --> 00:16:07.330 of popularity. In a way, yes. The ideological 00:16:07.330 --> 00:16:09.889 ban makes for the dramatic headline, fascist 00:16:09.889 --> 00:16:12.649 party banned. But the vote count tells the real 00:16:12.649 --> 00:16:16.269 story. Fascist party ignored by voters. That 00:16:16.269 --> 00:16:18.750 is a really powerful distinction. It brings us 00:16:18.750 --> 00:16:20.529 right back to that idea of the time capsule. 00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:22.250 You can open the capsule, you can look at the 00:16:22.250 --> 00:16:24.169 artifacts, you can even admire the conviction 00:16:24.169 --> 00:16:26.370 of the people who put them there. But you can't 00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:28.230 necessarily make those artifacts work in the 00:16:28.230 --> 00:16:30.169 modern world. So what does this all mean for 00:16:30.169 --> 00:16:35.129 us today? The party is gone, erased. The organization 00:16:35.129 --> 00:16:38.009 is gone. But we have to be very careful not to 00:16:38.009 --> 00:16:39.629 write off the sentiment just because the party 00:16:39.629 --> 00:16:42.210 died. As we mentioned, the new Adrapta is still 00:16:42.210 --> 00:16:44.529 out there. Right. The sentiment didn't die. It 00:16:44.529 --> 00:16:47.330 just migrated. Exactly. The vehicle, the TPT, 00:16:47.350 --> 00:16:49.870 broke down. It was too old, too clunky, too obsessed 00:16:49.870 --> 00:16:53.350 with the past. But the engine, the ideology itself 00:16:53.350 --> 00:16:56.590 was taken out and put into a newer car. The ideas 00:16:56.590 --> 00:16:59.029 are much harder to delete than a registry entry. 00:16:59.330 --> 00:17:01.389 It reminds me of that saying, history doesn't 00:17:01.389 --> 00:17:05.480 repeat itself, but it rhymes. The TPT tried to 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.440 force history to repeat itself verbatim and failed. 00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:10.579 And the groups that succeed are the ones that 00:17:10.579 --> 00:17:13.180 make it rhyme. They adapt the nationalism to 00:17:13.180 --> 00:17:15.299 fit the current moment. Before we wrap up, I 00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:17.240 want to circle back to that vote count one last 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.559 time. 50 ,000 votes. They couldn't get there. 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:23.779 It raises a really important and perhaps uncomfortable 00:17:23.779 --> 00:17:26.119 question for us to leave the listener with. When 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:29.500 we look at a band like this, May 2015, the party 00:17:29.500 --> 00:17:32.599 is dissolved. We tend to think of it as the government 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.559 stepping in to save the day, a victory for democracy 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:38.539 against extremism. But if they couldn't even 00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:42.180 get 50 ,000 votes, does the ban actually kill 00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:45.339 the sentiment? Or does that low vote count suggest 00:17:45.339 --> 00:17:47.559 that the sentiment was already fading on its 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.170 own? Basically, did the law kill them or did 00:17:50.170 --> 00:17:52.450 indifference kill them? Precisely. And which 00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:54.849 one is actually more effective at burying an 00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:57.150 ideology? If the government had banned them in 00:17:57.150 --> 00:18:00.369 1994 when emotions were high, maybe they would 00:18:00.369 --> 00:18:02.049 have become martyrs. Maybe it would have actually 00:18:02.049 --> 00:18:04.869 helped them grow. But by waiting until 2015, 00:18:05.109 --> 00:18:07.109 until they were just small and irrelevant, the 00:18:07.109 --> 00:18:09.970 ban was just a cleanup operation, a mere formality. 00:18:10.150 --> 00:18:12.029 That is a fascinating thing for you to chew on 00:18:12.029 --> 00:18:14.289 as a listener. Sometimes the most effective weapon 00:18:14.289 --> 00:18:17.170 against extremism isn't a gavel. It's just people. 00:18:17.230 --> 00:18:19.309 moving on with their lives. Indifference can 00:18:19.309 --> 00:18:22.289 be a very, very powerful political force. We're 00:18:22.289 --> 00:18:24.529 going to leave it there for today. This has been 00:18:24.529 --> 00:18:27.170 a deep dive into the Everything for the Country 00:18:27.170 --> 00:18:30.769 party, a ghost from the past that haunted Romanian 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:34.369 politics for 22 years before finally fading away. 00:18:34.549 --> 00:18:36.509 Thanks for exploring this history with us. Thanks 00:18:36.509 --> 00:18:38.750 for listening. We'll see you on the next deep 00:18:38.750 --> 00:18:38.930 dive.