WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.960 extra podcast title the deep dive 90s r &b hip 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:07.059 hop soul and the rise of nut and ice apple podcast 00:00:07.059 --> 00:00:10.320 description step into the studio for a comprehensive 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:13.640 deep dive into the 1990s music scene this time 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:15.880 we're unpacking the rapid rise chart climbing 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:18.620 hits and cinematic soundtrack dominance of the 00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:21.480 r &b and hip hop soul girl group nut and ice 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:24.199 From their discovery in an LA club by Pocket 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:26.519 Town Records to their collaborations with Jive 00:00:26.519 --> 00:00:29.359 Records, we analyze their genre -bending, sound 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.960 -fusing new jack swing, dance, and passionate 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:34.740 ballads. If you're fascinated by 90s girl groups, 00:00:35.100 --> 00:00:36.880 music industry dynamics, and the evolution of 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:39.340 hip -hop soul, this deep dive extracts the essential 00:00:39.340 --> 00:00:41.579 beats and chart histories you need to know. Step 00:00:41.579 --> 00:00:44.899 into the studio, because today we are zeroing 00:00:44.899 --> 00:00:47.600 in on a highly specific, honestly really fascinating 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.079 pocket of the 1990s music scene. Oh, absolutely. 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:52.420 Yeah, we're tracking the... Rise, the Sonic Evolution, 00:00:52.939 --> 00:00:55.460 and the absolute cinematic soundtrack dominance 00:00:55.460 --> 00:00:57.640 of a group that captured a very distinct transitional 00:00:57.640 --> 00:00:59.700 moment. We're talking about R &B and hip -hop 00:00:59.700 --> 00:01:01.799 soul, and the group is nut and nice. Because 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:03.979 if you follow the history of 90s vocal groups, 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:06.200 you already know the landscape was intensely 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.219 competitive. Oh, a cutthroat. Totally. So today, 00:01:09.379 --> 00:01:11.719 our mission is to extract the essential beats, 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:14.280 the chart histories, and, well, the industry 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.079 dynamics that propelled this specific trio. And 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.140 just so you know, we are pulling all of our insights 00:01:19.140 --> 00:01:20.920 today straight from history. historical charts, 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:25.040 the raw discography data we have and archival 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:27.439 press clippings of the era to piece together 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:30.780 their trajectory. It's such a great period to 00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:33.180 analyze, too. I mean, the early to mid -90s was 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:35.700 just an incredibly fluid time for urban music. 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:38.359 We were talking about that crucial window, like 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:41.140 right around 1992 and 1993. Right when everything 00:01:41.140 --> 00:01:44.180 was shifting. Exactly. The dominant sound of 00:01:44.180 --> 00:01:47.840 new jack swing, that heavily synthesized, really 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:52.200 aggressive, dance -oriented R &B. it was beginning 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.000 to mutate. It was bleeding directly into hip 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.079 -hop soul, which was a lot grittier. It leaned 00:01:57.079 --> 00:01:59.680 much heavier on actual hip -hop production and 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:01.719 sample -based beats. Right. Less about the polished 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:03.560 synthesizers and more about the street sound. 00:02:03.980 --> 00:02:08.039 Precisely. And Nut & Ice essentially sat right 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:10.659 at the intersection of those shifting tectonic 00:02:10.659 --> 00:02:13.560 plates. They were trying to synthesize R &B, 00:02:13.699 --> 00:02:17.219 hip -hop. hip hop soul and new jack swing into 00:02:17.219 --> 00:02:20.099 one cohesive identity. Okay, let's unpack this 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:22.159 by starting with their origins, because honestly 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:24.719 it illustrates exactly how much development happens 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:26.819 before a group ever sees a billboard chart. Oh, 00:02:26.819 --> 00:02:28.659 for sure. So much behind the scenes work. Right. 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:30.860 So they originated in Sacramento, California, 00:02:31.419 --> 00:02:34.719 but they didn't start as the trio we eventually 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:36.979 came to know. The historical record shows they 00:02:36.979 --> 00:02:39.819 were originally a five piece group called Attitude. 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.599 Attitude, such a classic 90s name. Isn't it? 00:02:42.969 --> 00:02:45.830 But over time, they lost two members. And the 00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:48.150 remaining three, Latisse Wallace, who went by 00:02:48.150 --> 00:02:50.810 Tis, Ani Ponder, and Liz Burnett, they rebranded 00:02:50.810 --> 00:02:53.490 as Nut and Ice. And you know, that kind of pre 00:02:53.490 --> 00:02:56.030 -fame attrition is actually incredibly common 00:02:56.030 --> 00:02:59.629 in the industry. Really? Oh, yeah. And it fundamentally 00:02:59.629 --> 00:03:02.509 alters the DNA of a group. I mean, when you downsize 00:03:02.509 --> 00:03:05.629 from a quintet to a trio, the entire architecture 00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:08.750 of your sound has to change. How so? Like vocally? 00:03:09.210 --> 00:03:12.560 Vocally. Absolutely. In a five piece, you have 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:16.419 the luxury of incredibly dense layered harmonies. 00:03:16.699 --> 00:03:19.520 You can have two members strictly dancing or 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:21.719 just providing background texture while the lead 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:23.960 vocalists do all the heavy lifting. Oh, I see. 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:26.919 But when you strip that down to three, every 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:30.000 single voice becomes entirely exposed. The vocal 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:31.860 arrangements have to become much tighter. There's 00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:34.300 nowhere to hide. Exactly. No one could just coast 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:36.340 in the background. And structurally, I'd imagine 00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:39.259 the stage dynamics changed completely, too. A 00:03:39.259 --> 00:03:41.860 trio is visually very different from a quintet. 00:03:42.099 --> 00:03:45.000 Completely. With three members, you inherently 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:47.599 have a center, a left, and a right. Right. It 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.099 creates a natural symmetry that makes choreography 00:03:50.099 --> 00:03:53.479 much sharper. And that was absolutely vital for 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:55.240 this era. Because everything was so visual back 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:58.080 then. Yes. If you think about the dominant groups 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.259 of that time, three really was the magic number. 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.479 TLC, SWV. Oh, true. It allows the audience to 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.719 instantly recognize and attach to individual 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.360 personalities without feeling overwhelmed by, 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:12.039 like, a super crowded stage. But it also means 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:14.500 the pressure on each individual member increases 00:04:14.500 --> 00:04:17.420 exponentially. Speaking of that pressure and, 00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:19.899 you know, the required skill sets, I really want 00:04:19.899 --> 00:04:22.439 to highlight a specific detail about Latisse 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:25.920 Wallace, or Tisse. Before she was even an attitude, 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.620 she came from a local dance trio called Get Busy 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:32.339 Girls. Ah. And that detail right there is the 00:04:32.339 --> 00:04:35.079 key to understanding their eventual live appeal. 00:04:35.420 --> 00:04:37.620 Because she already had the stamina. Exactly. 00:04:37.819 --> 00:04:40.000 Coming from a dedicated dance trio wasn't just 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:43.079 a nice bullet point on her resume. It was strategic 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:46.120 necessity for the era. The beats driving new 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.300 jack swing and hip hop soul were intensely syncopated. 00:04:49.620 --> 00:04:52.480 Past complex rhythms. Right. The expectation 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.079 wasn't just vocal proficiency. You had to execute 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:57.920 complex high energy choreography without missing 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.439 a vocal cue. Which is incredibly hard to do, 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.220 singing while doing heavy cardio. It's exhausting. 00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:05.860 So having a member who already possessed a deep 00:05:05.860 --> 00:05:08.139 fundamental understanding of professional dance 00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:10.699 blocking and stage stamina, it meant they didn't 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:12.579 have to be taught how to perform from scratch. 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:14.860 They had a built -in engine for their live shows. 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.000 Which perfectly sets up how they actually broke 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:19.120 into the industry. Because they make the move 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:21.439 from Sacramento down to Los Angeles. Placing 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:23.480 themselves right in the heart of the industry 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:25.680 machine. Exactly. And they get discovered in 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.449 the most classic traditional way possible. They're 00:05:28.449 --> 00:05:31.610 performing live at an LA club. The dream scenario. 00:05:31.949 --> 00:05:35.089 Right? An A &R man named Rodney Ellis from Pocket 00:05:35.089 --> 00:05:38.089 Town Records catches their set. He sees the vocal 00:05:38.089 --> 00:05:40.050 talent. He sees that choreography we just talked 00:05:40.050 --> 00:05:43.029 about, and he signs them. But the crucial detail 00:05:43.029 --> 00:05:45.449 here is that they are signed as Pocket Town Records' 00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:49.970 first ever act. Wow. Being a label's first act 00:05:49.970 --> 00:05:52.370 is a fascinating position to be in. I mean, it 00:05:52.370 --> 00:05:54.810 sounds great. Right? On paper, it sounds fantastic. 00:05:55.329 --> 00:05:58.350 An A &R that's artist in repertoire. the executives 00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:00.990 responsible for scouting talent, they find you 00:06:00.990 --> 00:06:02.790 and make you the center of their universe. You're 00:06:02.790 --> 00:06:05.350 not fighting for attention. Exactly. You don't 00:06:05.350 --> 00:06:08.310 have to compete with the massive roster of established 00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:10.790 superstars for the label's marketing dollars. 00:06:11.009 --> 00:06:13.889 You are the absolute priority. Right. But the 00:06:13.889 --> 00:06:16.269 flip side of that is the sheer crushing weight 00:06:16.269 --> 00:06:19.110 of expectation. Yes. Pocket Town Records was 00:06:19.110 --> 00:06:22.209 an unproven entity. When a label has no prior 00:06:22.209 --> 00:06:25.050 track record, they have no baseline revenue to 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:27.740 fall back on. So if it fails, if their first 00:06:27.740 --> 00:06:30.939 release flops, the label could literally fold. 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:33.240 That is terrifying. The artists are essentially 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:35.459 carrying the financial viability of the entire 00:06:35.459 --> 00:06:38.180 company on their shoulders. Every single demo, 00:06:38.379 --> 00:06:41.160 every studio session, every wardrobe choice is 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.420 heavily scrutinized because the margin for error. 00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:46.160 is zero. And it seems like Pocket Town knew they 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.939 needed heavy artillery to make this work because 00:06:48.939 --> 00:06:51.079 they ultimately secured a Burtnership with Jive 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:53.360 Records for distribution and releases. Which 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.980 was huge. Jive was an absolute powerhouse at 00:06:55.980 --> 00:06:58.399 the time. Deeply embedded in the urban music 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.379 scene. Yes. Jive had the infrastructure. So Nut 00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:03.620 and Ice is suddenly thrust into the big leagues. 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:06.639 And the sound they bring to Jive is incredibly 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.939 ambitious. The archives explicitly tagged them 00:07:09.939 --> 00:07:13.199 with four distinct genres. We've got R &B, hip 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:17.250 hop, Hip Hop Soul and New Jack Swing. It's really 00:07:17.250 --> 00:07:19.189 important to break down what combining those 00:07:19.189 --> 00:07:21.290 four genres actually sounded like in practice, 00:07:21.290 --> 00:07:23.350 because you're blending very different vibes. 00:07:23.509 --> 00:07:25.370 Right. How does that cocktail actually work? 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:30.149 Well, New Jack Swing gave them that driving swung 00:07:30.149 --> 00:07:31.910 drum machine rhythm. That's the kind of beat 00:07:31.910 --> 00:07:33.889 that forces you to move. It's built for the dance 00:07:33.889 --> 00:07:36.670 floor. OK. Then traditional R &B provided the 00:07:36.670 --> 00:07:39.709 melodic structure and the impassioned vocal delivery. 00:07:39.810 --> 00:07:42.290 The actual singing part. Right. But integrating 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:45.319 hip hop. and hip hop soul meant they were also 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:49.060 incorporating heavier boom bap bass lines, street 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:51.779 level attitude, and a vocal delivery that occasionally 00:07:51.779 --> 00:07:54.500 blurred the line between singing and rhythmic 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:57.410 cadence. Like, sort of sing -rapping. Exactly. 00:07:57.610 --> 00:07:59.329 They were aggressively targeting the intersection 00:07:59.329 --> 00:08:01.730 of the dance floor and the streets. You can hear 00:08:01.730 --> 00:08:04.089 that ambition across their debut album, Down 00:08:04.089 --> 00:08:06.569 4, whatever. And the timeline of this album's 00:08:06.569 --> 00:08:09.230 life cycle is a perfect snapshot of how the industry 00:08:09.230 --> 00:08:11.629 operated back then. Physical media timelines 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:14.230 are wild compared to today. Completely. So it 00:08:14.230 --> 00:08:17.500 was originally released in October 1993. But 00:08:17.500 --> 00:08:19.860 the records indicate a major re -release happened 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:22.939 in June 1995, and it ended up peaking at number 00:08:22.939 --> 00:08:26.459 34 on the U .S. R &D albums chart. A nearly two 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:28.699 -year gap between an initial release and a re 00:08:28.699 --> 00:08:31.060 -release is highly indicative of the physical 00:08:31.060 --> 00:08:33.860 media era. Because today, if a record isn't a 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:37.379 hit in week one, it's basically dead. Today, 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:39.500 an album's success is largely determined in its 00:08:39.500 --> 00:08:42.299 first two weeks on streaming platforms. But in 00:08:42.299 --> 00:08:45.440 1993, Building an artist was often a grueling, 00:08:45.620 --> 00:08:47.960 slow burn process. You had to work for it. You 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:49.700 really did. It relied on physical distribution, 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.320 regional radio breaking a single in one market 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.879 before it spread to others, and relentless club 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.600 promotions. So a 1995 re -release suggests that 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:00.980 something finally caught fire, and the label 00:09:00.980 --> 00:09:03.059 needed to restock the physical product to meet 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:06.889 a new wave of demand. Precisely. If a later single 00:09:06.889 --> 00:09:09.769 suddenly gains traction, the label has to ensure 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:11.909 that when a new fan walks into a record store, 00:09:12.429 --> 00:09:14.929 the full -length CD or cassette is sitting right 00:09:14.929 --> 00:09:16.970 there on the shelf, newly marketed and ready 00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:18.649 to be purchased. It's a completely different 00:09:18.649 --> 00:09:21.210 economic model of momentum. I remember those 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:23.669 days of digging through cassette bins and you 00:09:23.669 --> 00:09:25.169 know what's really fascinating is how the press 00:09:25.169 --> 00:09:27.830 reacted to that album. Looking at the archival 00:09:27.830 --> 00:09:30.649 reviews, you have two radically different interpretations 00:09:30.649 --> 00:09:33.049 of the exact same body of work. Oh, the reviews 00:09:33.049 --> 00:09:35.570 from this era are always so telling. They really 00:09:35.570 --> 00:09:37.789 are. Here's where it gets really interesting. 00:09:38.269 --> 00:09:40.850 We have a review from the Chicago Tribune that 00:09:40.850 --> 00:09:44.330 described the album as being full of sexual innuendo 00:09:44.330 --> 00:09:47.990 and lascivious posturing. Wow. That is a very 00:09:47.990 --> 00:09:50.169 heavily loaded, almost pearl -clutching description. 00:09:50.450 --> 00:09:53.090 It really is very pearl -clutching. But then 00:09:53.090 --> 00:09:55.269 you look at the Sun Reporter, and their review 00:09:55.269 --> 00:09:57.850 describes the same album as being stacked with 00:09:57.850 --> 00:10:00.129 passionate ballads, booming beats, and fresh 00:10:00.129 --> 00:10:03.960 rap interludes. The contrast is staggering. It 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.940 perfectly illustrates the dichotomy of the 1990s 00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:09.259 music press. You always have to look at who is 00:10:09.259 --> 00:10:11.519 doing the reviewing and what cultural lens they're 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.500 applying. Mainstream, broadsheet newspapers like 00:10:14.500 --> 00:10:17.220 the Tribune often struggle to contextualize the 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:19.539 emerging hip -hop soul movement. They frequently 00:10:19.539 --> 00:10:22.000 viewed the confidence, the streetwise attitude, 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:25.019 and the agency of young female urban artists 00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:27.340 through a lens of provocation. They were intimidated 00:10:27.340 --> 00:10:30.399 by it. Exactly. The Tribune Review focuses almost 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.679 entirely on the posturing the social implications 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:35.419 of the artist's image rather than the music itself. 00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:37.679 They were reviewing the attitude, not the actual 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:40.460 production. Spot on. But then you look at The 00:10:40.460 --> 00:10:43.509 Sun Reporter. Historically, that publication 00:10:43.509 --> 00:10:46.289 served the African -American community and had 00:10:46.289 --> 00:10:48.769 a much deeper, inherent understanding of the 00:10:48.769 --> 00:10:51.350 musical lineage. They understood the assignment. 00:10:51.690 --> 00:10:54.110 Right. They didn't see provocation. They saw 00:10:54.110 --> 00:10:56.710 the architecture of the genre. They recognized 00:10:56.710 --> 00:10:59.250 the technical execution of the passionate ballads. 00:10:59.730 --> 00:11:01.950 They understood the rhythmic value of the boom 00:11:01.950 --> 00:11:05.370 and beats. And they appreciated the integration 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:07.909 of the fresh -wrapped interludes. It's a brilliant 00:11:07.909 --> 00:11:11.230 example of how a group's sonic identity can be 00:11:11.230 --> 00:11:13.769 entirely misunderstood by critics outside the 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:16.289 culture while being celebrated by those within 00:11:16.289 --> 00:11:18.669 it. It's a tale of two entirely different listening 00:11:18.669 --> 00:11:21.730 experiences. So true. But despite that friction 00:11:21.730 --> 00:11:24.000 in the mainstream press, They were absolutely 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.860 making inroads on the charts. Their debut single, 00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:30.539 In My Nature, hit in 1993, reaching number 83 00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:33.039 on the Billboard Hot 100. It's a solid start 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.440 for a brand new group. It is. But behind the 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.899 scenes, the group's foundation was shockingly 00:11:37.899 --> 00:11:40.940 unstable. The historical record shows a brutal 00:11:40.940 --> 00:11:43.600 revolving door of personnel. This is where things 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.019 get really tough for developing acts. Yeah. Remember 00:11:46.019 --> 00:11:48.519 the original three. Tice Wallace. Ani Ponder 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:51.080 and Liz Burnett. Right as they are launching 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:54.440 in 1993, Liz Burnett is replaced by a Boney Foster. 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:57.659 Right. And then just a year later in 1994, a 00:11:57.659 --> 00:12:01.019 Boney Foster herself exits the group. What's 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:03.659 fascinating here is how that level of internal 00:12:03.659 --> 00:12:07.519 volatility affects a group trying to build momentum. 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.379 I mean, think about the sheer amount of foundational 00:12:11.379 --> 00:12:13.960 work that has to be redone every single time 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:15.759 a member changes. You'd have to re -record the 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:17.919 vocal stems. You have to re -record all the harmonies. 00:12:18.019 --> 00:12:19.919 You have to completely re -block and re -teach 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:22.139 the live choreography. And the marketing materials. 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:24.740 Yes. You have to shoot new press photos, print 00:12:24.740 --> 00:12:27.120 new promotional materials, and try to establish 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.879 a brand new internal chemistry during live interviews. 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:32.490 When one third of your group changes twice within 00:12:32.490 --> 00:12:35.110 a 24 month window, the fact that they didn't 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:37.549 completely lose their momentum is actually a 00:12:37.549 --> 00:12:39.470 testament to the core members and the strength 00:12:39.470 --> 00:12:41.909 of the labels machinery behind them. Exactly. 00:12:42.190 --> 00:12:43.950 Pocket Town and Jive really held it together. 00:12:44.289 --> 00:12:46.490 They really did, because right in the middle 00:12:46.490 --> 00:12:49.649 of that turmoil in 1994, they released their 00:12:49.649 --> 00:12:52.289 second single. down for whatever. In the US, 00:12:52.370 --> 00:12:56.649 it hits number 92 on the Hot 100. But the fascinating 00:12:56.649 --> 00:12:59.289 data point here is their international crossover. 00:12:59.570 --> 00:13:03.289 The UK market. Yes. That same track gave them 00:13:03.289 --> 00:13:05.690 their highest chart placement in the United Kingdom, 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:08.509 peaking at number 62 on the UK singles chart. 00:13:08.730 --> 00:13:10.950 The translation of American urban music to the 00:13:10.950 --> 00:13:13.919 UK market is a deep subject all on its own. Why 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.340 did it resonate so much better over there? Well, 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:20.440 the UK has always had a very robust, highly protective 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.179 underground dance and club culture. They have 00:13:23.179 --> 00:13:25.539 historically been very quick to embrace heavy, 00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:28.379 syncopated, bass driven American imports. So 00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:30.059 they were playing it in clubs before it hit the 00:13:30.059 --> 00:13:32.639 radio. Exactly. Often breaking tracks in their 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:34.700 clubs long before they hit traditional commercial 00:13:34.700 --> 00:13:37.500 radio formats. The rhythmic structure of down 00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:40.039 for whatever clearly resonated with the UK club 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.860 scene's appetite for driving danceable R &B. 00:13:42.860 --> 00:13:45.460 It proves their sound wasn't just geographically 00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:47.820 limited to the West Coast or the US urban radio 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:50.639 formats. And Jive Records was clearly invested 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:53.080 in integrating them into their wider roster too. 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:56.279 Also in 1994, we see a collaboration between 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.320 Nut & Ice and the deeply established R &B group 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:02.460 High Five on a track called What Can I Say To 00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:05.279 You To Justify My Love? That's classic label 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.779 synergy. Right. It shows the label was using 00:14:07.779 --> 00:14:10.019 cross -pollination to legitimize Nut and Ice 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:11.820 with a built -in audience. Give them the high 00:14:11.820 --> 00:14:15.519 -five rub. Exactly. But 1995 is when they deploy 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.299 a genuinely brilliant piece of strategy. They 00:14:18.299 --> 00:14:21.419 decide to release a cover of Nasty Girl. Wow. 00:14:21.580 --> 00:14:24.179 Yeah. The massive track originally written by 00:14:24.179 --> 00:14:26.679 Prince and performed by Vanity Six. Which is 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:29.240 an incredibly audacious move. You do not touch 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.980 the Prince catalog unless you are highly confident 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:34.080 in your vocal execution. in your production team. 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.440 It's hallowed ground. It really is. But it's 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:38.480 not just the song choice that's interesting here. 00:14:38.539 --> 00:14:41.419 It's the release strategy. The archival data 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:43.740 shows Jive didn't just put out a standard single. 00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:46.679 They utilized a dual release strategy. Very smart. 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:49.419 The album version of their Nasty Girl cover leaned 00:14:49.419 --> 00:14:51.639 heavily into the hip hop side of their sound. 00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:54.980 But they simultaneously released a separate single 00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:57.799 mix that was engineered with a much faster up 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:01.360 tempo house music and dance feel. That is a master 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.159 class in aggressive. targeted market segmentation. 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:07.620 Break that down for us. The label looked at the 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:10.879 intellectual property of a single song and realized 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.059 they could weaponize it across two entirely different 00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:16.419 cultural ecosystems. The hip hop scene and the 00:15:16.419 --> 00:15:19.149 house scene. Exactly. The hip -hop version, which 00:15:19.149 --> 00:15:21.330 is sitting comfortably around 90 beats per minute 00:15:21.330 --> 00:15:24.750 with heavy boom -bap drums, is designed specifically 00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:28.070 for urban radio mix shows and the core hip -hop 00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:30.750 soul audience. It maintains their street credibility. 00:15:30.990 --> 00:15:32.529 Right, it keeps them grounded in their original 00:15:32.529 --> 00:15:35.070 lane. But then the house mix, which is probably 00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:37.409 sitting closer to 120 beats per minute with a 00:15:37.409 --> 00:15:40.250 four -on -the -floor kick drum, is designed purely 00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:43.320 for the club DJs. because you can't play a 90 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.320 BPM track at peak hour in a house club. If you 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.259 take a mid tempo hip hop track into a high energy 00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:52.340 house club, you will clear the dance floor instantly. 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:56.409 By providing a dedicated up -tempo house mix, 00:15:56.610 --> 00:15:58.970 Jive ensured the track could live in massive 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:01.409 mainstream dance clubs. They basically doubled 00:16:01.409 --> 00:16:03.610 their chances of a hit. They are essentially 00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:06.590 doubling the exposure footprint of the same vocal 00:16:06.590 --> 00:16:09.870 performance, hitting both demographics simultaneously 00:16:09.870 --> 00:16:12.549 without alienating either. And the charts prove 00:16:12.549 --> 00:16:15.059 the strategy was flawless. The archives show 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:17.779 the track hit number 39 on the U .S. dance club 00:16:17.779 --> 00:16:20.899 play songs chart. The uptempo mix absolutely 00:16:20.899 --> 00:16:23.139 found its target. Brilliant marketing. So this 00:16:23.139 --> 00:16:25.419 momentum just keeps building toward their final 00:16:25.419 --> 00:16:28.879 act. Later in 1995, they released the single 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:31.419 Froggy Style, which was huge for them. It was 00:16:31.419 --> 00:16:33.639 their commercial zenith. It hits number 63 on 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.320 the Hot 100, number 68 in the UK, and most importantly, 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.840 it climbs all the way to number 25 on the U .S. 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.059 R &B and hip -hop songs chart. Hitting the top 00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:43.879 25 on the dedicated R &B and hip -hop chart is 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:45.779 the ultimate validation. Because it's their core 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:49.429 audience. Yes. It means you aren't just a fleeting 00:16:49.429 --> 00:16:53.049 pop anomaly. You are in heavy sustained rotation 00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:56.009 on the specific radio stations and video shows 00:16:56.009 --> 00:16:58.789 that dictate the pulse of the culture. You have 00:16:58.789 --> 00:17:00.850 been accepted by the core demographic. But their 00:17:00.850 --> 00:17:03.870 impact goes so much deeper than traditional radio 00:17:03.870 --> 00:17:06.809 play. This brings us to what might be the most 00:17:06.809 --> 00:17:10.160 fascinating aspect of their career. Net and Nice 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.299 managed to quietly become absolute powerhouses 00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:16.420 in 90s cinema. The soundtrack queens. Truly. 00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:18.859 The sheer volume of their music placed in major 00:17:18.859 --> 00:17:21.720 films is staggering. The records show their tracks 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.980 were utilized in four distinct major movie soundtracks 00:17:24.980 --> 00:17:27.220 in a highly compressed time frame. That kind 00:17:27.220 --> 00:17:29.819 of synchronization success is incredibly rare. 00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:32.359 especially for a group that was only actively 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:34.740 releasing music for a few years. Let me map out 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:36.500 this cultural footprint because listeners have 00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:38.460 almost certainly heard their music in the background 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:40.519 of their lives without realizing it. Oh, definitely. 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:42.740 Their debut track, In My Nature, was placed in 00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:45.839 the 1993 sci -fi thriller Ghost in the Machine. 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:48.839 Great placement. Then, their single Down for 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.559 Whatever was featured in the 1994 Keenan Ivory 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.779 Wayans action comedy, A Lowdown Dirty Shame. 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.819 A staple 90s movie. Right. And then, a track 00:17:57.819 --> 00:18:01.440 called Wandering Eyes landed in the massive 1993 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.680 blockbuster Sister Act II, Back in the Habit. 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:06.819 Which was a cultural juggernaut. And finally, 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:09.480 their highest charting single, Froggy Style, 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.759 was included in the 1996 comedy High School High. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.500 If we connect this to the bigger picture to understand 00:18:15.500 --> 00:18:18.119 the gravity of that, we have to look at the economics 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:20.920 and the cultural power of the 90s movie soundtrack. 00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:23.740 Because it was a different world back then. Entirely. 00:18:24.259 --> 00:18:26.160 During this era, soundtracks were essentially 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.119 the curated, big budget playlists of the culture. 00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:32.210 Before streaming algorithms existed to feed you 00:18:32.210 --> 00:18:35.190 new music, a blockbuster soundtrack was a primary 00:18:35.190 --> 00:18:37.410 engine for musical discovery. You'd buy the CD 00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:39.470 just for one song and end up loving the rest 00:18:39.470 --> 00:18:42.309 of the artists. Exactly. A well -placed song 00:18:42.309 --> 00:18:44.490 on a platinum -selling soundtrack could generate 00:18:44.490 --> 00:18:47.230 massive royalty checks and introduce an artist 00:18:47.230 --> 00:18:49.650 to millions of consumers who would never have 00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:52.029 purchased their solo album. It's passive exposure 00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:54.750 on a massive scale. Exactly. Imagine a teenager 00:18:54.750 --> 00:18:58.250 in 1993 sitting in a packed theater for Sister 00:18:58.250 --> 00:19:00.660 Act 2. They aren't there to hear nothing nice. 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:04.420 But when the scene plays and that track pumps 00:19:04.420 --> 00:19:07.259 through the cinema's surround sound system, it 00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.700 becomes emotionally linked to the film. It's 00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:12.359 ambient saturation. That makes total sense. When 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.720 you land songs in four major films across different 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:20.559 genres, sci -fi, action, comedy, you are embedding 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:23.440 your sonic fingerprint into the literal memories 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.259 of a generation. you were part of the cultural 00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:28.240 furniture. Which makes the end of their story 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:31.460 feel so incredibly abrupt. Yeah. Because the 00:19:31.460 --> 00:19:34.440 archives show that by 1996, immediately following 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.180 their peak chart success with Froggy Style and 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:39.160 this incredible run of soundtrack placements, 00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:42.599 the group officially disbanded to pursue individual 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.099 solo careers. It's the great paradox of the music 00:19:45.099 --> 00:19:46.940 industry. It really is. Just when they reach 00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:49.720 the top. You spend years fighting through lineup 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:52.809 changes. grueling promo schedules and the pressure 00:19:52.809 --> 00:19:55.730 of being a label's first act, the collective 00:19:55.730 --> 00:19:57.730 effort finally gets you to the top of the mountain. 00:19:57.809 --> 00:20:00.009 You have the chart placement. You have the cultural 00:20:00.009 --> 00:20:02.490 saturation. Everything you worked for. But often, 00:20:02.970 --> 00:20:05.769 the exact moment a group achieves that visibility 00:20:05.769 --> 00:20:08.529 is the exact moment the internal gravity shifts. 00:20:09.369 --> 00:20:12.269 The desire to stand alone, to define a singular 00:20:12.269 --> 00:20:14.369 artistic vision without having to compromise 00:20:14.369 --> 00:20:17.609 within a trio, suddenly outweighs the security 00:20:17.609 --> 00:20:21.359 of the group. It is deeply ironic but it happens 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.680 constantly. It really is a bittersweet ending 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.779 to a massive hustle. It is. So let's pull all 00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:29.339 these threads together. We started with the five 00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:32.079 piece attitude in Sacramento. We tracked their 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.740 evolution into a trio, their discovery in an 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:37.400 LA club to become Pocket Town's flagship act, 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:39.819 and their navigation of a constantly shifting 00:20:39.819 --> 00:20:42.539 lineup. A lot of hurdles. We saw their brilliant 00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:45.619 strategic maneuvering from capturing the UK underground 00:20:45.619 --> 00:20:48.799 scene to dual releasing a Prince cover to dominate 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:51.500 two different club formats. Strategic genius 00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:53.940 from the label. And finally, we saw them embed 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:56.519 their sound into the cinematic landscape of the 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.150 90s across four major soundtracks right before 00:21:00.150 --> 00:21:02.609 calling it quits at their absolute peak. It is 00:21:02.609 --> 00:21:05.109 a perfectly encapsulated story of how the 90s 00:21:05.109 --> 00:21:06.789 industry functioned and I think there's a really 00:21:06.789 --> 00:21:08.509 compelling thought to take away from all of this 00:21:08.509 --> 00:21:11.069 for you listening. Consider the hidden architecture 00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:14.369 of the media we consume. Nut and Ice was only 00:21:14.369 --> 00:21:17.049 actively releasing music for a very short four 00:21:17.049 --> 00:21:20.299 -year window. yet their work is permanently woven 00:21:20.299 --> 00:21:22.920 into the fabric of multiple international charts 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.440 and the background of major Hollywood films. 00:21:25.779 --> 00:21:28.299 It's true. It forces you to wonder, when you 00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:30.299 re -watch your favorite movies from the 80s, 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:34.119 90s, or 2000s, how many other incredible, short 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:37.240 -lived artists are hiding in plain sight? How 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.819 many foundational architects of a musical era 00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:42.660 are just waiting inside those soundtracks for 00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:44.680 someone to dig into the credits and bring their 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:46.839 story back to the surface? That is such a great 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:49.119 perspective. The history of music is infinitely 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.720 deeper than just the legacy acts we hear on classic 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:53.859 radio today. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much 00:21:53.859 --> 00:21:56.259 for joining us on this deep dive into the fascinating, 00:21:56.660 --> 00:21:59.000 rapid -fire history of Nut and Ice and the evolution 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.279 of 90s hip -hop soul. Keep your ears open, stay 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:04.960 insanely curious, and we will catch you on the 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:05.819 next deep dive.