extra podcast title the deep dive 90s r &b hip
hop soul and the rise of nut and ice apple podcast
description step into the studio for a comprehensive
deep dive into the 1990s music scene this time
we're unpacking the rapid rise chart climbing
hits and cinematic soundtrack dominance of the
r &b and hip hop soul girl group nut and ice
From their discovery in an LA club by Pocket
Town Records to their collaborations with Jive
Records, we analyze their genre -bending, sound
-fusing new jack swing, dance, and passionate
ballads. If you're fascinated by 90s girl groups,
music industry dynamics, and the evolution of
hip -hop soul, this deep dive extracts the essential
beats and chart histories you need to know. Step
into the studio, because today we are zeroing
in on a highly specific, honestly really fascinating
pocket of the 1990s music scene. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, we're tracking the... Rise, the Sonic Evolution,
and the absolute cinematic soundtrack dominance
of a group that captured a very distinct transitional
moment. We're talking about R &B and hip -hop
soul, and the group is nut and nice. Because
if you follow the history of 90s vocal groups,
you already know the landscape was intensely
competitive. Oh, a cutthroat. Totally. So today,
our mission is to extract the essential beats,
the chart histories, and, well, the industry
dynamics that propelled this specific trio. And
just so you know, we are pulling all of our insights
today straight from history. historical charts,
the raw discography data we have and archival
press clippings of the era to piece together
their trajectory. It's such a great period to
analyze, too. I mean, the early to mid -90s was
just an incredibly fluid time for urban music.
We were talking about that crucial window, like
right around 1992 and 1993. Right when everything
was shifting. Exactly. The dominant sound of
new jack swing, that heavily synthesized, really
aggressive, dance -oriented R &B. it was beginning
to mutate. It was bleeding directly into hip
-hop soul, which was a lot grittier. It leaned
much heavier on actual hip -hop production and
sample -based beats. Right. Less about the polished
synthesizers and more about the street sound.
Precisely. And Nut & Ice essentially sat right
at the intersection of those shifting tectonic
plates. They were trying to synthesize R &B,
hip -hop. hip hop soul and new jack swing into
one cohesive identity. Okay, let's unpack this
by starting with their origins, because honestly
it illustrates exactly how much development happens
before a group ever sees a billboard chart. Oh,
for sure. So much behind the scenes work. Right.
So they originated in Sacramento, California,
but they didn't start as the trio we eventually
came to know. The historical record shows they
were originally a five piece group called Attitude.
Attitude, such a classic 90s name. Isn't it?
But over time, they lost two members. And the
remaining three, Latisse Wallace, who went by
Tis, Ani Ponder, and Liz Burnett, they rebranded
as Nut and Ice. And you know, that kind of pre
-fame attrition is actually incredibly common
in the industry. Really? Oh, yeah. And it fundamentally
alters the DNA of a group. I mean, when you downsize
from a quintet to a trio, the entire architecture
of your sound has to change. How so? Like vocally?
Vocally. Absolutely. In a five piece, you have
the luxury of incredibly dense layered harmonies.
You can have two members strictly dancing or
just providing background texture while the lead
vocalists do all the heavy lifting. Oh, I see.
But when you strip that down to three, every
single voice becomes entirely exposed. The vocal
arrangements have to become much tighter. There's
nowhere to hide. Exactly. No one could just coast
in the background. And structurally, I'd imagine
the stage dynamics changed completely, too. A
trio is visually very different from a quintet.
Completely. With three members, you inherently
have a center, a left, and a right. Right. It
creates a natural symmetry that makes choreography
much sharper. And that was absolutely vital for
this era. Because everything was so visual back
then. Yes. If you think about the dominant groups
of that time, three really was the magic number.
TLC, SWV. Oh, true. It allows the audience to
instantly recognize and attach to individual
personalities without feeling overwhelmed by,
like, a super crowded stage. But it also means
the pressure on each individual member increases
exponentially. Speaking of that pressure and,
you know, the required skill sets, I really want
to highlight a specific detail about Latisse
Wallace, or Tisse. Before she was even an attitude,
she came from a local dance trio called Get Busy
Girls. Ah. And that detail right there is the
key to understanding their eventual live appeal.
Because she already had the stamina. Exactly.
Coming from a dedicated dance trio wasn't just
a nice bullet point on her resume. It was strategic
necessity for the era. The beats driving new
jack swing and hip hop soul were intensely syncopated.
Past complex rhythms. Right. The expectation
wasn't just vocal proficiency. You had to execute
complex high energy choreography without missing
a vocal cue. Which is incredibly hard to do,
singing while doing heavy cardio. It's exhausting.
So having a member who already possessed a deep
fundamental understanding of professional dance
blocking and stage stamina, it meant they didn't
have to be taught how to perform from scratch.
They had a built -in engine for their live shows.
Which perfectly sets up how they actually broke
into the industry. Because they make the move
from Sacramento down to Los Angeles. Placing
themselves right in the heart of the industry
machine. Exactly. And they get discovered in
the most classic traditional way possible. They're
performing live at an LA club. The dream scenario.
Right? An A &R man named Rodney Ellis from Pocket
Town Records catches their set. He sees the vocal
talent. He sees that choreography we just talked
about, and he signs them. But the crucial detail
here is that they are signed as Pocket Town Records'
first ever act. Wow. Being a label's first act
is a fascinating position to be in. I mean, it
sounds great. Right? On paper, it sounds fantastic.
An A &R that's artist in repertoire. the executives
responsible for scouting talent, they find you
and make you the center of their universe. You're
not fighting for attention. Exactly. You don't
have to compete with the massive roster of established
superstars for the label's marketing dollars.
You are the absolute priority. Right. But the
flip side of that is the sheer crushing weight
of expectation. Yes. Pocket Town Records was
an unproven entity. When a label has no prior
track record, they have no baseline revenue to
fall back on. So if it fails, if their first
release flops, the label could literally fold.
That is terrifying. The artists are essentially
carrying the financial viability of the entire
company on their shoulders. Every single demo,
every studio session, every wardrobe choice is
heavily scrutinized because the margin for error.
is zero. And it seems like Pocket Town knew they
needed heavy artillery to make this work because
they ultimately secured a Burtnership with Jive
Records for distribution and releases. Which
was huge. Jive was an absolute powerhouse at
the time. Deeply embedded in the urban music
scene. Yes. Jive had the infrastructure. So Nut
and Ice is suddenly thrust into the big leagues.
And the sound they bring to Jive is incredibly
ambitious. The archives explicitly tagged them
with four distinct genres. We've got R &B, hip
hop, Hip Hop Soul and New Jack Swing. It's really
important to break down what combining those
four genres actually sounded like in practice,
because you're blending very different vibes.
Right. How does that cocktail actually work?
Well, New Jack Swing gave them that driving swung
drum machine rhythm. That's the kind of beat
that forces you to move. It's built for the dance
floor. OK. Then traditional R &B provided the
melodic structure and the impassioned vocal delivery.
The actual singing part. Right. But integrating
hip hop. and hip hop soul meant they were also
incorporating heavier boom bap bass lines, street
level attitude, and a vocal delivery that occasionally
blurred the line between singing and rhythmic
cadence. Like, sort of sing -rapping. Exactly.
They were aggressively targeting the intersection
of the dance floor and the streets. You can hear
that ambition across their debut album, Down
4, whatever. And the timeline of this album's
life cycle is a perfect snapshot of how the industry
operated back then. Physical media timelines
are wild compared to today. Completely. So it
was originally released in October 1993. But
the records indicate a major re -release happened
in June 1995, and it ended up peaking at number
34 on the U .S. R &D albums chart. A nearly two
-year gap between an initial release and a re
-release is highly indicative of the physical
media era. Because today, if a record isn't a
hit in week one, it's basically dead. Today,
an album's success is largely determined in its
first two weeks on streaming platforms. But in
1993, Building an artist was often a grueling,
slow burn process. You had to work for it. You
really did. It relied on physical distribution,
regional radio breaking a single in one market
before it spread to others, and relentless club
promotions. So a 1995 re -release suggests that
something finally caught fire, and the label
needed to restock the physical product to meet
a new wave of demand. Precisely. If a later single
suddenly gains traction, the label has to ensure
that when a new fan walks into a record store,
the full -length CD or cassette is sitting right
there on the shelf, newly marketed and ready
to be purchased. It's a completely different
economic model of momentum. I remember those
days of digging through cassette bins and you
know what's really fascinating is how the press
reacted to that album. Looking at the archival
reviews, you have two radically different interpretations
of the exact same body of work. Oh, the reviews
from this era are always so telling. They really
are. Here's where it gets really interesting.
We have a review from the Chicago Tribune that
described the album as being full of sexual innuendo
and lascivious posturing. Wow. That is a very
heavily loaded, almost pearl -clutching description.
It really is very pearl -clutching. But then
you look at the Sun Reporter, and their review
describes the same album as being stacked with
passionate ballads, booming beats, and fresh
rap interludes. The contrast is staggering. It
perfectly illustrates the dichotomy of the 1990s
music press. You always have to look at who is
doing the reviewing and what cultural lens they're
applying. Mainstream, broadsheet newspapers like
the Tribune often struggle to contextualize the
emerging hip -hop soul movement. They frequently
viewed the confidence, the streetwise attitude,
and the agency of young female urban artists
through a lens of provocation. They were intimidated
by it. Exactly. The Tribune Review focuses almost
entirely on the posturing the social implications
of the artist's image rather than the music itself.
They were reviewing the attitude, not the actual
production. Spot on. But then you look at The
Sun Reporter. Historically, that publication
served the African -American community and had
a much deeper, inherent understanding of the
musical lineage. They understood the assignment.
Right. They didn't see provocation. They saw
the architecture of the genre. They recognized
the technical execution of the passionate ballads.
They understood the rhythmic value of the boom
and beats. And they appreciated the integration
of the fresh -wrapped interludes. It's a brilliant
example of how a group's sonic identity can be
entirely misunderstood by critics outside the
culture while being celebrated by those within
it. It's a tale of two entirely different listening
experiences. So true. But despite that friction
in the mainstream press, They were absolutely
making inroads on the charts. Their debut single,
In My Nature, hit in 1993, reaching number 83
on the Billboard Hot 100. It's a solid start
for a brand new group. It is. But behind the
scenes, the group's foundation was shockingly
unstable. The historical record shows a brutal
revolving door of personnel. This is where things
get really tough for developing acts. Yeah. Remember
the original three. Tice Wallace. Ani Ponder
and Liz Burnett. Right as they are launching
in 1993, Liz Burnett is replaced by a Boney Foster.
Right. And then just a year later in 1994, a
Boney Foster herself exits the group. What's
fascinating here is how that level of internal
volatility affects a group trying to build momentum.
I mean, think about the sheer amount of foundational
work that has to be redone every single time
a member changes. You'd have to re -record the
vocal stems. You have to re -record all the harmonies.
You have to completely re -block and re -teach
the live choreography. And the marketing materials.
Yes. You have to shoot new press photos, print
new promotional materials, and try to establish
a brand new internal chemistry during live interviews.
When one third of your group changes twice within
a 24 month window, the fact that they didn't
completely lose their momentum is actually a
testament to the core members and the strength
of the labels machinery behind them. Exactly.
Pocket Town and Jive really held it together.
They really did, because right in the middle
of that turmoil in 1994, they released their
second single. down for whatever. In the US,
it hits number 92 on the Hot 100. But the fascinating
data point here is their international crossover.
The UK market. Yes. That same track gave them
their highest chart placement in the United Kingdom,
peaking at number 62 on the UK singles chart.
The translation of American urban music to the
UK market is a deep subject all on its own. Why
did it resonate so much better over there? Well,
the UK has always had a very robust, highly protective
underground dance and club culture. They have
historically been very quick to embrace heavy,
syncopated, bass driven American imports. So
they were playing it in clubs before it hit the
radio. Exactly. Often breaking tracks in their
clubs long before they hit traditional commercial
radio formats. The rhythmic structure of down
for whatever clearly resonated with the UK club
scene's appetite for driving danceable R &B.
It proves their sound wasn't just geographically
limited to the West Coast or the US urban radio
formats. And Jive Records was clearly invested
in integrating them into their wider roster too.
Also in 1994, we see a collaboration between
Nut & Ice and the deeply established R &B group
High Five on a track called What Can I Say To
You To Justify My Love? That's classic label
synergy. Right. It shows the label was using
cross -pollination to legitimize Nut and Ice
with a built -in audience. Give them the high
-five rub. Exactly. But 1995 is when they deploy
a genuinely brilliant piece of strategy. They
decide to release a cover of Nasty Girl. Wow.
Yeah. The massive track originally written by
Prince and performed by Vanity Six. Which is
an incredibly audacious move. You do not touch
the Prince catalog unless you are highly confident
in your vocal execution. in your production team.
It's hallowed ground. It really is. But it's
not just the song choice that's interesting here.
It's the release strategy. The archival data
shows Jive didn't just put out a standard single.
They utilized a dual release strategy. Very smart.
The album version of their Nasty Girl cover leaned
heavily into the hip hop side of their sound.
But they simultaneously released a separate single
mix that was engineered with a much faster up
tempo house music and dance feel. That is a master
class in aggressive. targeted market segmentation.
Break that down for us. The label looked at the
intellectual property of a single song and realized
they could weaponize it across two entirely different
cultural ecosystems. The hip hop scene and the
house scene. Exactly. The hip -hop version, which
is sitting comfortably around 90 beats per minute
with heavy boom -bap drums, is designed specifically
for urban radio mix shows and the core hip -hop
soul audience. It maintains their street credibility.
Right, it keeps them grounded in their original
lane. But then the house mix, which is probably
sitting closer to 120 beats per minute with a
four -on -the -floor kick drum, is designed purely
for the club DJs. because you can't play a 90
BPM track at peak hour in a house club. If you
take a mid tempo hip hop track into a high energy
house club, you will clear the dance floor instantly.
By providing a dedicated up -tempo house mix,
Jive ensured the track could live in massive
mainstream dance clubs. They basically doubled
their chances of a hit. They are essentially
doubling the exposure footprint of the same vocal
performance, hitting both demographics simultaneously
without alienating either. And the charts prove
the strategy was flawless. The archives show
the track hit number 39 on the U .S. dance club
play songs chart. The uptempo mix absolutely
found its target. Brilliant marketing. So this
momentum just keeps building toward their final
act. Later in 1995, they released the single
Froggy Style, which was huge for them. It was
their commercial zenith. It hits number 63 on
the Hot 100, number 68 in the UK, and most importantly,
it climbs all the way to number 25 on the U .S.
R &B and hip -hop songs chart. Hitting the top
25 on the dedicated R &B and hip -hop chart is
the ultimate validation. Because it's their core
audience. Yes. It means you aren't just a fleeting
pop anomaly. You are in heavy sustained rotation
on the specific radio stations and video shows
that dictate the pulse of the culture. You have
been accepted by the core demographic. But their
impact goes so much deeper than traditional radio
play. This brings us to what might be the most
fascinating aspect of their career. Net and Nice
managed to quietly become absolute powerhouses
in 90s cinema. The soundtrack queens. Truly.
The sheer volume of their music placed in major
films is staggering. The records show their tracks
were utilized in four distinct major movie soundtracks
in a highly compressed time frame. That kind
of synchronization success is incredibly rare.
especially for a group that was only actively
releasing music for a few years. Let me map out
this cultural footprint because listeners have
almost certainly heard their music in the background
of their lives without realizing it. Oh, definitely.
Their debut track, In My Nature, was placed in
the 1993 sci -fi thriller Ghost in the Machine.
Great placement. Then, their single Down for
Whatever was featured in the 1994 Keenan Ivory
Wayans action comedy, A Lowdown Dirty Shame.
A staple 90s movie. Right. And then, a track
called Wandering Eyes landed in the massive 1993
blockbuster Sister Act II, Back in the Habit.
Which was a cultural juggernaut. And finally,
their highest charting single, Froggy Style,
was included in the 1996 comedy High School High.
If we connect this to the bigger picture to understand
the gravity of that, we have to look at the economics
and the cultural power of the 90s movie soundtrack.
Because it was a different world back then. Entirely.
During this era, soundtracks were essentially
the curated, big budget playlists of the culture.
Before streaming algorithms existed to feed you
new music, a blockbuster soundtrack was a primary
engine for musical discovery. You'd buy the CD
just for one song and end up loving the rest
of the artists. Exactly. A well -placed song
on a platinum -selling soundtrack could generate
massive royalty checks and introduce an artist
to millions of consumers who would never have
purchased their solo album. It's passive exposure
on a massive scale. Exactly. Imagine a teenager
in 1993 sitting in a packed theater for Sister
Act 2. They aren't there to hear nothing nice.
But when the scene plays and that track pumps
through the cinema's surround sound system, it
becomes emotionally linked to the film. It's
ambient saturation. That makes total sense. When
you land songs in four major films across different
genres, sci -fi, action, comedy, you are embedding
your sonic fingerprint into the literal memories
of a generation. you were part of the cultural
furniture. Which makes the end of their story
feel so incredibly abrupt. Yeah. Because the
archives show that by 1996, immediately following
their peak chart success with Froggy Style and
this incredible run of soundtrack placements,
the group officially disbanded to pursue individual
solo careers. It's the great paradox of the music
industry. It really is. Just when they reach
the top. You spend years fighting through lineup
changes. grueling promo schedules and the pressure
of being a label's first act, the collective
effort finally gets you to the top of the mountain.
You have the chart placement. You have the cultural
saturation. Everything you worked for. But often,
the exact moment a group achieves that visibility
is the exact moment the internal gravity shifts.
The desire to stand alone, to define a singular
artistic vision without having to compromise
within a trio, suddenly outweighs the security
of the group. It is deeply ironic but it happens
constantly. It really is a bittersweet ending
to a massive hustle. It is. So let's pull all
these threads together. We started with the five
piece attitude in Sacramento. We tracked their
evolution into a trio, their discovery in an
LA club to become Pocket Town's flagship act,
and their navigation of a constantly shifting
lineup. A lot of hurdles. We saw their brilliant
strategic maneuvering from capturing the UK underground
scene to dual releasing a Prince cover to dominate
two different club formats. Strategic genius
from the label. And finally, we saw them embed
their sound into the cinematic landscape of the
90s across four major soundtracks right before
calling it quits at their absolute peak. It is
a perfectly encapsulated story of how the 90s
industry functioned and I think there's a really
compelling thought to take away from all of this
for you listening. Consider the hidden architecture
of the media we consume. Nut and Ice was only
actively releasing music for a very short four
-year window. yet their work is permanently woven
into the fabric of multiple international charts
and the background of major Hollywood films.
It's true. It forces you to wonder, when you
re -watch your favorite movies from the 80s,
90s, or 2000s, how many other incredible, short
-lived artists are hiding in plain sight? How
many foundational architects of a musical era
are just waiting inside those soundtracks for
someone to dig into the credits and bring their
story back to the surface? That is such a great
perspective. The history of music is infinitely
deeper than just the legacy acts we hear on classic
radio today. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much
for joining us on this deep dive into the fascinating,
rapid -fire history of Nut and Ice and the evolution
of 90s hip -hop soul. Keep your ears open, stay
insanely curious, and we will catch you on the
next deep dive.