WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.140 I want you to picture something for a second. 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:06.480 Okay. Imagine you are a brilliant aerospace scientist 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.880 and it's the mid -1970s. Right, the golden age 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:12.660 of space exploration. Exactly. You spend your 00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:15.500 days deep in the weeds of cutting edge technology, 00:00:15.820 --> 00:00:18.420 specifically designing systems meant to explore 00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:21.879 the rugged alien surface of Mars. That's some 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:24.920 heavy, highly specialized science. It is. But 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:28.079 now I want you to imagine taking that exact same 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:31.339 space age technology, pivoting entirely and pointing 00:00:31.339 --> 00:00:33.679 it at one of the most fiercely debated religious 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:35.960 artifacts in human history. It sounds like the 00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:37.759 premise of a science fiction novel, honestly. 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:40.140 Right. But we are looking at what happens when 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:42.219 those two complete completely different worlds 00:00:42.219 --> 00:00:44.500 collide. And it's a very real piece of history. 00:00:44.539 --> 00:00:46.939 We're talking about a moment where the absolute 00:00:46.939 --> 00:00:50.439 pinnacle of 1970s hard science was brought face 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:52.460 to face with an ancient mystery. So for this 00:00:52.460 --> 00:00:55.119 deep dive, our mission is to examine the source 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.479 material detailing the shroud of Turin Research 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:00.579 Project. You'll often hear that abbreviated as 00:01:00.579 --> 00:01:03.439 STIRP. We've gathered the historical timeline 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.219 from the Wikipedia article, the rosters of the 00:01:06.219 --> 00:01:08.519 scientists involved, their methodologies, the 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:13.120 final reports, and the pretty serious controversies 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:14.760 that followed. We're going to lay out exactly 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:16.959 how this all happened. But right off the bat, 00:01:17.019 --> 00:01:19.120 before we get into the mechanics of that timeline, 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:22.299 I do need to establish some clear ground rules 00:01:22.299 --> 00:01:25.079 for our discussion today. Go for it. The Shroud 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:28.659 of Turin is a deeply significant religious artifact 00:01:28.659 --> 00:01:31.980 for millions of people around the world. Because 00:01:31.980 --> 00:01:35.340 of that, it is crucial to clarify upfront that 00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:38.599 this deep dive is strictly an impartial report 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.379 on the provided source material. Absolutely. 00:01:41.620 --> 00:01:43.840 We are not here to endorse any religious viewpoints. 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:46.299 We're not validating miracles. And we're not 00:01:46.299 --> 00:01:48.579 taking sides between believers and skeptics. 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:51.540 Our goal is strictly to unpack the historical 00:01:51.540 --> 00:01:54.019 and scientific ideas contained in the text we 00:01:54.019 --> 00:01:56.560 have. We are focusing entirely on the story of 00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:58.900 the research project itself, the people who ran 00:01:58.900 --> 00:02:01.019 it and the data they produced. And for you listening, 00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:03.519 treating this objectively turns the story into 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:05.920 a master class in a few different areas. It's 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.879 an exploration of the intersection where quantitative 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.000 science meets historic. But perhaps more importantly, 00:02:13.699 --> 00:02:16.139 it's a master class in evaluating who is conducting 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:19.229 the research. when we are presented with scientific 00:02:19.229 --> 00:02:22.030 data, we always have to ask ourselves about the 00:02:22.030 --> 00:02:24.490 people behind the instruments. Right, their backgrounds, 00:02:24.750 --> 00:02:27.189 their potential biases. Exactly. Okay, let's 00:02:27.189 --> 00:02:29.389 unpack this and go back to the origins of this 00:02:29.389 --> 00:02:32.289 whole project starting in 1976. I want to introduce 00:02:32.289 --> 00:02:34.289 you to the original trio who kicked this off. 00:02:34.430 --> 00:02:37.349 The founders. Yep. We have a physicist named 00:02:37.349 --> 00:02:40.169 John P. Jackson, a thermodynamicist named Eric 00:02:40.169 --> 00:02:42.530 Jumper, and a radiographer named William Modern. 00:02:42.889 --> 00:02:45.750 And just looking at their titles, these are individuals 00:02:45.750 --> 00:02:48.069 dealing with the fundamental properties of matter 00:02:48.069 --> 00:02:50.729 and energy. Yeah, a thermodynamicist studies 00:02:50.729 --> 00:02:53.370 how heat and energy transfer, while a radiographer 00:02:53.370 --> 00:02:56.250 uses radiation like X -rays or gamma rays to 00:02:56.250 --> 00:02:58.650 see inside solid structures. They are heavily 00:02:58.650 --> 00:03:01.069 credentialed individuals. Their day jobs involve 00:03:01.069 --> 00:03:04.250 analyzing the physical universe in highly specialized 00:03:04.250 --> 00:03:06.849 ways. And their connection to those day jobs 00:03:06.849 --> 00:03:09.990 is the actual catalyst for this entire project. 00:03:10.189 --> 00:03:12.610 This is where Eric Jumper enters the picture 00:03:12.610 --> 00:03:14.949 with that aerospace technology we mentioned earlier. 00:03:15.590 --> 00:03:18.509 He takes a piece of equipment called a VPA image 00:03:18.509 --> 00:03:20.629 analyzer. Which is a fascinating piece of tech. 00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:23.370 It really is. It was originally invented for 00:03:23.370 --> 00:03:25.270 aerospace science to build three -dimensional 00:03:25.270 --> 00:03:29.039 models of the lunar surface, or Mars. by analyzing 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.340 flat two -dimensional photographs. And Jember 00:03:31.340 --> 00:03:34.259 decides to run photographs of the Shroud of Turin 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:36.599 through this device. He does. And according to 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.139 our source, this action marks the very first 00:03:39.139 --> 00:03:41.539 scientific experiments ever performed on the 00:03:41.539 --> 00:03:43.860 relic. To understand why that's so significant, 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.039 we have to look at how that technology actually 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:48.500 works. If you take a standard photograph of a 00:03:48.500 --> 00:03:51.419 person and run it through a VP8 image analyzer, 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.680 the result is usually a distorted garbled mess. 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.400 Really? Why is that? Well, in a normal photograph, 00:03:57.659 --> 00:03:59.419 light and shadow depend on where the light source 00:03:59.419 --> 00:04:02.400 was placed, not on how close the object was to 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:05.340 the camera. The analyzer interprets image density, 00:04:05.460 --> 00:04:08.300 the light and dark areas, as physical relief 00:04:08.300 --> 00:04:10.780 or height. Oh, I see. So if the light was shining 00:04:10.780 --> 00:04:13.000 from the left side of the room, the analyzer 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:15.099 would mistakenly think the left side of the face 00:04:15.099 --> 00:04:17.639 was physically closer to the camera. Exactly 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:20.040 the problem with normal photos. But what Jumper 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:22.160 discovered when he input the shroud photographs 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:24.500 was something entirely different. What happened? 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:27.740 The analyzer produced an accurate, proportionally 00:04:27.740 --> 00:04:30.379 correct, three -dimensional rendering of a human 00:04:30.379 --> 00:04:33.069 shape. Wow. Yeah, it implied that the density 00:04:33.069 --> 00:04:35.550 of the image on the cloth, the darkness of the 00:04:35.550 --> 00:04:37.870 markings, correlated directly to the physical 00:04:37.870 --> 00:04:40.410 distance between the cloth and a body. It was 00:04:40.410 --> 00:04:42.990 basically a topographical map hidden in an ancient 00:04:42.990 --> 00:04:45.910 piece of linen. That specific detail changes 00:04:45.910 --> 00:04:48.269 the trajectory of everything. The fact that a 00:04:48.269 --> 00:04:50.829 Mars mapping tool produced a perfect 3D human 00:04:50.829 --> 00:04:53.529 form from this cloth becomes the rallying cry. 00:04:53.550 --> 00:04:56.550 Use the spark they needed. Right. So fast forward 00:04:56.550 --> 00:04:59.910 a few months to March 1977. Jackson, Jumper, 00:05:00.050 --> 00:05:02.449 and Modern used this preliminary data to invite 00:05:02.449 --> 00:05:04.689 other scientists to join them. They hold a meeting 00:05:04.689 --> 00:05:07.769 in Albuquerque, New Mexico to form a dedicated 00:05:07.769 --> 00:05:10.540 formal team for the analysis of the shroud. And 00:05:10.540 --> 00:05:12.420 the most compelling aspect of this Albuquerque 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:15.480 meeting is the organizational structure, or rather, 00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:18.560 the complete lack of it. Yeah, they had zero 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.920 official sponsorship. No university or government 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:24.319 agency was formally backing this investigation. 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:26.639 The scientists were funding their activities 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.040 out of their own pockets. But despite being entirely 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:32.759 self -funded and grassroots, they pulled off 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:35.850 a logistical miracle. They somehow managed to 00:05:35.850 --> 00:05:38.430 secure gifts and loans of highly specialized 00:05:38.430 --> 00:05:40.910 technical equipment with an estimated value of 00:05:40.910 --> 00:05:45.550 over $2 million. And that is $2 million in 1970s 00:05:45.550 --> 00:05:47.529 money. Which is closer to $10 million today. 00:05:48.089 --> 00:05:50.610 They're convincing organizations to hand over 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:53.350 extremely delicate, state -of -the -art optical 00:05:53.350 --> 00:05:56.170 and nuclear measuring instruments. The organizations 00:05:56.170 --> 00:05:58.589 loaning this equipment clearly recognize the 00:05:58.589 --> 00:06:00.449 scientific pedigree of the individuals making 00:06:00.449 --> 00:06:02.569 the requests. You do not hand over that level 00:06:02.569 --> 00:06:04.930 of hardware to amateurs. No, and looking at the 00:06:04.930 --> 00:06:06.709 roster, amateur is the last word you would use. 00:06:06.970 --> 00:06:09.290 I mean, they bring in Tom Demuhala, a nuclear 00:06:09.290 --> 00:06:13.149 physicist, to lead logistics for Startby. A powerhouse. 00:06:13.310 --> 00:06:15.810 They recruit Raymond N. Rogers, a thermal chemist, 00:06:15.870 --> 00:06:17.850 to look at the behavior of the materials under 00:06:17.850 --> 00:06:20.050 different temperature conditions. They bring 00:06:20.050 --> 00:06:22.750 on a biophysicist named John Heller. The list 00:06:22.750 --> 00:06:25.189 just keeps going. It does. We're talking about 00:06:25.189 --> 00:06:28.290 optical physicist Sam Pellicori, forensic pathologist 00:06:28.290 --> 00:06:31.769 Robert Bucklin, alongside electric power experts 00:06:31.769 --> 00:06:34.610 and specialized photographers. These individuals 00:06:34.610 --> 00:06:36.790 are coming from prestigious institutions like 00:06:36.790 --> 00:06:39.329 the Los Alamos National Laboratory and the Jet 00:06:39.329 --> 00:06:42.709 Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena. It is a phenomenal 00:06:42.709 --> 00:06:45.370 assembly of quantitative minds. If you need to 00:06:45.370 --> 00:06:48.110 know the exact spectral signature of a stain 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:50.670 or the elemental composition of a microscopic 00:06:50.670 --> 00:06:53.310 fiber, this is the premier team you would want. 00:06:53.529 --> 00:06:55.529 Absolutely. But reviewing that roster raises 00:06:55.529 --> 00:06:57.810 an important question. What's fascinating here 00:06:57.810 --> 00:07:00.589 is a massive blind spot. Look closely at the 00:07:00.589 --> 00:07:02.529 specialties you just listed. Who is missing from 00:07:02.529 --> 00:07:05.000 that room? Well, you have nuclear physicists, 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:08.079 thermal chemists, biophysicists, and pathologists. 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:11.420 It's entirely heavy on the hard sciences. I'm 00:07:11.420 --> 00:07:14.360 not seeing any mention of historians, archaeologists, 00:07:14.459 --> 00:07:17.019 or medieval art experts. They're studying an 00:07:17.019 --> 00:07:20.079 ancient textile, but they didn't bring a textile 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.720 historian. They did not. Stirpers included no 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.540 experts on medieval art, archaeology, or ancient 00:07:26.540 --> 00:07:29.379 textiles. I want you to consider the implications 00:07:29.379 --> 00:07:32.439 of approaching a historical artifact with that 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:34.939 specific blind spot. It changes the whole dynamic. 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.819 Completely. A thermal chemist asks, what is the 00:07:37.819 --> 00:07:40.839 elemental makeup of this pigment? An archaeologist 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:44.139 asks, was this specific elemental pigment available 00:07:44.139 --> 00:07:46.860 to artists in the 14th century? That's a very 00:07:46.860 --> 00:07:49.680 different question. A biophysicist asks, is this 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:52.740 human blood? A historian asks, how does the application 00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:55.459 of this blood align with medieval artistic practices 00:07:55.459 --> 00:07:57.800 of the era? But if you're trying to definitively 00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:59.680 prove whether something is a physical anomaly 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.639 or just a painting, wouldn't a mass spectrometer 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.620 or a chemical test be far more reliable than 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:08.660 art historians' subjective opinion? Hard data 00:08:08.660 --> 00:08:11.519 is essential, yes, but data requires context 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:15.139 for accurate interpretation. Let's say your spectrometer 00:08:15.139 --> 00:08:18.379 finds traces of iron oxide. A physicist might 00:08:18.379 --> 00:08:21.500 just log the presence of iron. An art historian 00:08:21.500 --> 00:08:24.240 would recognize iron oxide as the primary component 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:27.120 of red ochre, a very common paint pigment used 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:30.259 during the Middle Ages. By only having hard scientists 00:08:30.259 --> 00:08:32.179 in the room, they are measuring the physical 00:08:32.179 --> 00:08:34.600 reality of the object with incredible precision. 00:08:35.179 --> 00:08:37.740 But they are completely insulated from the historical 00:08:37.740 --> 00:08:40.809 reality. They were treating a potentially ancient 00:08:40.809 --> 00:08:44.090 cultural artifact the exact same way they would 00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:46.509 treat a rock sample from Mars. That distinction 00:08:46.509 --> 00:08:48.649 is going to be incredibly important when we look 00:08:48.649 --> 00:08:50.429 at their final conclusions. But first, we have 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:52.389 to look at how they actually deployed this $2 00:08:52.389 --> 00:08:55.149 million arsenal of equipment. Let's set the scene. 00:08:55.309 --> 00:08:59.169 The year is late 1978. The city of Turin, Italy 00:08:59.169 --> 00:09:01.690 is commemorating the 400th anniversary of the 00:09:01.690 --> 00:09:03.850 shroud's arrival in the city. The atmosphere 00:09:03.850 --> 00:09:06.350 is intense. The shroud is put on display, locked 00:09:06.350 --> 00:09:08.610 safely behind bulletproof glass. And the crowds 00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:11.169 were massive. Over the course of a few weeks, 00:09:11.370 --> 00:09:14.769 from August 27 to October 8, approximately three 00:09:14.769 --> 00:09:17.230 million visitors shuffled past it. The sheer 00:09:17.230 --> 00:09:20.269 volume of humanity passing by this object highlights 00:09:20.269 --> 00:09:22.309 the immense cultural and religious weight it 00:09:22.309 --> 00:09:25.190 carries. Three million people in a matter of 00:09:25.190 --> 00:09:27.870 weeks is a staggering logistical event in itself. 00:09:28.149 --> 00:09:30.669 Truly. And while the public is paying their respects, 00:09:31.129 --> 00:09:34.029 The STIRP team is waiting in the wings, prepping 00:09:34.029 --> 00:09:36.570 for their window of opportunity. Once that public 00:09:36.570 --> 00:09:39.690 exposition ends on October 8, the cathedral doors 00:09:39.690 --> 00:09:42.529 lock, the millions of visitors disperse, and 00:09:42.529 --> 00:09:45.110 STIRP moves in with their 72 crates of equipment. 00:09:45.870 --> 00:09:49.509 What follows is a five -day, 120 -hour scientific 00:09:49.509 --> 00:09:52.210 stakeout set up in the Royal Palace adjoining 00:09:52.210 --> 00:09:54.299 the Turing Cathedral. You have to imagine the 00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:56.519 tension and the exhaustion in that palace. They 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:58.860 were given a very strict non -negotiable window 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:01.980 of 120 hours. Not a minute more. The source notes 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:03.960 that the scientists worked around the clock and 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.360 carefully staggered shifts. Some would sleep 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:08.340 on cots nearby while the others operated the 00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:10.899 machinery, ensuring not a single second of access 00:10:10.899 --> 00:10:13.200 was wasted. And someone had to oversee all of 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.799 this, right? Yes. The entire operation was closely 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:20.159 supervised by a European scientist named Luigi 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:22.759 Cannella to ensure the artifact wasn't damaged. 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:24.840 So they're hitting this cloth with everything 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:27.299 they have. They're doing x -ray fluorescence 00:10:27.299 --> 00:10:29.679 to map elemental compositions. They're using 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:31.879 infrared spectrometry. They're using thermography. 00:10:32.659 --> 00:10:35.759 But amidst all of this incredibly advanced jet 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:39.340 propulsion lab level hardware, there is one detail 00:10:39.340 --> 00:10:41.500 about their methodology that really stands out. 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.059 Oh, the tape. Yeah. When it came time to actually 00:10:44.059 --> 00:10:46.299 gather physical samples from the shroud to take 00:10:46.299 --> 00:10:48.940 back to the United States, their primary tool 00:10:48.940 --> 00:10:52.129 was sticky tape. It sounds almost absurd when 00:10:52.129 --> 00:10:54.809 contrasted with nuclear measuring devices, but 00:10:54.809 --> 00:10:57.370 tape lifting is a foundational forensic technique. 00:10:57.710 --> 00:10:59.210 I understand you can't exactly take a pair of 00:10:59.210 --> 00:11:01.629 scissors to a priceless relic, but how does Scotch 00:11:01.629 --> 00:11:03.629 tape hold up against peer -reviewed science? 00:11:03.809 --> 00:11:05.870 Well, they weren't using off -the -shelf office 00:11:05.870 --> 00:11:08.649 supplies. They use a specially designed Mylar 00:11:08.649 --> 00:11:11.309 tape with a custom chemically inert adhesive. 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:13.750 Okay, that makes more sense. The goal was to 00:11:13.750 --> 00:11:16.470 press this tape onto specific, carefully mapped 00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:19.269 areas of the shroud, the image areas, the blood 00:11:19.269 --> 00:11:21.450 stain areas, the clear areas, and peel it back. 00:11:21.990 --> 00:11:25.190 This safely lifts microscopic fibers, surface 00:11:25.190 --> 00:11:28.169 particulates, pollen, and debris without damaging 00:11:28.169 --> 00:11:30.309 the structural integrity of the underlying ancient 00:11:30.309 --> 00:11:32.950 linen. It's basically a non -destructive sample. 00:11:33.169 --> 00:11:35.370 Exactly. They took dozens of these tape samples 00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:37.129 to bring back to their respective laboratories 00:11:37.129 --> 00:11:40.629 for deep chemical analysis. So the 120 hours 00:11:40.629 --> 00:11:42.909 expire, they pack up their optical lasers and 00:11:42.909 --> 00:11:45.450 their meticulously labeled sticky tape, and they 00:11:45.450 --> 00:11:48.000 head back to the United States. Over the next 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:50.059 few years, the team members retreat to their 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:52.860 respective labs to analyze the data. Publishing 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:55.000 various localized results along the way. Right, 00:11:55.019 --> 00:11:57.320 leading up to the release of their comprehensive 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.980 final report. Which brings us to 1981 and the 00:11:59.980 --> 00:12:02.039 culmination of all this effort. Here's where 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.580 it gets really interesting. The 1981 STIRP final 00:12:05.580 --> 00:12:07.580 report is where we have to look really closely 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:10.159 at the language they use. The conclusion they 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.500 present is dramatic. I will quote their findings 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:15.919 directly for you. We can conclude for now that 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.779 the shroud image is that of a real human form 00:12:18.779 --> 00:12:22.539 of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product 00:12:22.539 --> 00:12:25.379 of an artist. That is a remarkably definitive 00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:27.919 statement from a team of physicists and aerospace 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:30.080 scientists. To say it's not the product of an 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.200 artist. Yes. To state that unequivocally implies 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.000 they found no evidence of brush strokes, no binding 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:39.120 agents typical of paint, and no directional application 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:41.440 of pigment. And they back that claim up with 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.919 the specific chemical findings derived from those 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:47.240 mylar sticky tape samples. The biophysicists 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:49.600 on the team analyzed the reddish stains on the 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.039 cloth. The report states that they found these 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:54.279 stains were composed of hemoglobin and also gave 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:57.639 a positive test for serum albumin. To clarify 00:12:57.639 --> 00:12:59.779 those terms for you, hemoglobin is the protein 00:12:59.779 --> 00:13:01.919 molecule in red blood cells that carries oxygen, 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:04.460 and serum albumin is the most abundant protein 00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:07.240 found in blood plasma. So it's real blood. Finding 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.519 both of these in the sample strongly suggests 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:12.700 the presence of mammalian blood, yes. It rules 00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:15.440 out a scenario where an artist simply mixed up 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.519 some red ochre and water. So based on the hemoglobin 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:21.460 and serum albumin, they conclude it is real blood. 00:13:21.690 --> 00:13:24.570 And based on the optical data, they conclude 00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:27.409 it is a real human form and not a painting. It 00:13:27.409 --> 00:13:28.990 sounds like they are closing the book on the 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:31.450 mystery entirely. If we only read that first 00:13:31.450 --> 00:13:34.330 paragraph, it certainly seems that way. But scientific 00:13:34.330 --> 00:13:36.850 reports are rarely that absolute. And the SERP 00:13:36.850 --> 00:13:39.470 team immediately follows that definitive statement 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:42.690 with a massive caveat. What's the caveat? The 00:13:42.690 --> 00:13:45.370 very next sentences in their conclusion admit 00:13:45.370 --> 00:13:47.990 that the actual mechanism of how the image was 00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:50.590 formed on the cloth remains an ongoing mystery. 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.720 They explicitly state that the problem remains 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.940 unsolved until further chemical studies are made. 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.000 They're drawing a very sharp line in the sand. 00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:00.779 They are confident in saying what the image isn't, 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:03.320 it isn't a painting, and they are confident in 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:05.879 identifying the presence of blood, but they admit 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:08.639 they have absolutely no scientific model to explain 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.000 how a structurally perfect, 3D -encoded image 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.720 transferred from a human body onto a piece of 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:18.139 linen. And that unresolved gap between we found 00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:20.399 blood and we don't know how the image was made, 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:22.759 leaves a wide opening for critical pushback. 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.240 Naturally. In the world of high -stakes historical 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.500 and religious artifacts, a report that bold is 00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:31.960 going to face intense scrutiny. This introduces 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:34.539 us to the skeptics, specifically a gentleman 00:14:34.539 --> 00:14:37.039 named Joe Nickel from the Committee for Skeptical 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:40.639 Inquiry. He steps in to provide a comprehensive 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.730 counterargument to this derp. findings. The Committee 00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:46.830 for Skeptical Inquiry is an organization dedicated 00:14:46.830 --> 00:14:49.169 to scientifically investigating controversial 00:14:49.169 --> 00:14:52.250 and extraordinary claims. And Joe Nichols' critique 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:54.809 of the CERT project doesn't just attack the chemical 00:14:54.809 --> 00:14:57.769 data, it attacks the very foundation of the team 00:14:57.769 --> 00:15:01.190 itself. Nichols' investigation circles us perfectly 00:15:01.190 --> 00:15:03.129 back to the ground rules we established at the 00:15:03.129 --> 00:15:05.490 beginning of this deep dive. We talked about 00:15:05.490 --> 00:15:07.509 the importance of evaluating who is doing the 00:15:07.509 --> 00:15:09.730 research and what their potential biases might 00:15:09.730 --> 00:15:11.970 be. And what did Nicol uncover? He incurred a 00:15:11.970 --> 00:15:14.029 rather staggering conflict of interest regarding 00:15:14.029 --> 00:15:16.090 the STIRP leadership. I remember seeing this 00:15:16.090 --> 00:15:18.049 in the source material and it completely reframed 00:15:18.049 --> 00:15:20.870 the story for me. Nicol points out that the leaders 00:15:20.870 --> 00:15:23.789 of STIRPR, the men who organized the Albuquerque 00:15:23.789 --> 00:15:25.950 meeting, who rallied the two million dollars 00:15:25.950 --> 00:15:28.309 in equipment, and who directed the final report, 00:15:28.730 --> 00:15:31.070 actually served on the executive council of something 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:33.889 called the Holy Shroud Guild. The Holy Shroud 00:15:33.889 --> 00:15:36.769 Guild is an organization explicitly devoted to 00:15:36.769 --> 00:15:40.990 the quote cause of the reputed relic. Their stated 00:15:40.990 --> 00:15:43.350 purpose was to promote devotion to the shroud 00:15:43.350 --> 00:15:46.639 and to encourage its study. So, the supposedly 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.100 objective scientists who designed the methodologies 00:15:49.100 --> 00:15:51.179 and wrote the final report declaring the artifact 00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:53.940 was not a painting were simultaneously sitting 00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:56.440 on the board of a religious guild dedicated to 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:58.879 promoting that exact same artifact. They were. 00:15:59.259 --> 00:16:02.179 And this asks you, the listener, to actively 00:16:02.179 --> 00:16:04.240 engage with this information. What stands out 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:06.909 to you? Nickel's argument isn't necessarily that 00:16:06.909 --> 00:16:09.009 the scientists maliciously faked their data. 00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:11.429 There were highly respected professionals who 00:16:11.429 --> 00:16:13.929 published in peer -reviewed journals. His argument 00:16:13.929 --> 00:16:16.110 is about unconscious bias and interpretation. 00:16:16.529 --> 00:16:19.970 If you go into a 120 -hour stakeout, deeply, 00:16:20.309 --> 00:16:22.909 perhaps unconsciously, hoping to validate the 00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:25.129 object you have devoted your free time to promoting, 00:16:25.850 --> 00:16:28.049 you are going to interpret ambiguous data in 00:16:28.049 --> 00:16:30.490 a very specific way. Precisely the point Nickel 00:16:30.490 --> 00:16:33.759 makes. Let's look at the blood tests. Sterpi 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.159 found hemoglobin and serum albumin, concluding 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:39.759 it was real blood and therefore not a painting. 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:42.200 Right. Nicholl counters that finding blood does 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.879 not preclude an artist. An artist in the 14th 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:47.120 century could have easily used real blood or 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:49.559 a mixture containing animal blood to add realism 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.220 to a painted artifact. Or, tying back to the 00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:54.360 missing experts we discussed earlier, an our 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:56.200 historian might point out that many medieval 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:59.059 tempera paints used organic binders, like egg 00:16:59.059 --> 00:17:01.539 whites or animal glues, that contained proteins 00:17:01.539 --> 00:17:03.580 which could potentially trigger false positives 00:17:03.580 --> 00:17:06.579 in 1970s chemical tests looking for blood proteins 00:17:06.579 --> 00:17:09.529 like albumin. That is exactly why Nicol heavily 00:17:09.529 --> 00:17:12.349 criticized the composition of the team. By entirely 00:17:12.349 --> 00:17:15.470 excluding art historians, medieval textile experts, 00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:17.730 and skeptical forensic scientists from the initial 00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:20.849 investigation, STIR created an intellectual echo 00:17:20.849 --> 00:17:23.289 chamber. That makes total sense. They built a 00:17:23.289 --> 00:17:26.130 team that was highly skilled at operating mass 00:17:26.130 --> 00:17:29.450 spectrometers, but intellectually isolated from 00:17:29.450 --> 00:17:33.119 alternative historical explanations. They saw 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.779 what their instruments told them, but their biases 00:17:35.779 --> 00:17:38.220 may have dictated how they interpreted those 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:40.599 instrument readings. OK, let's unpack this and 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:43.000 look at the whole journey we've just taken. We 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.759 started with aerospace engineers taking topography 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.319 tech meant for the craters of Mars and applying 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.779 it to a flat photograph of an ancient clock. 00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:53.920 A huge leap. Then we watched them hustle millions 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.119 of dollars in highly sensitive laboratory gear 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:58.720 and transport it to a royal palace in Italy. 00:17:59.049 --> 00:18:02.490 We followed them through a 120 hour sleep deprived 00:18:02.490 --> 00:18:05.490 scientific stakeout where their most crucial 00:18:05.490 --> 00:18:07.950 evidence gathering tool was specially formulated 00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:10.750 sticky tape. It's wild to think about. And it 00:18:10.750 --> 00:18:13.630 culminated in a 1981 verdict that confidently 00:18:13.630 --> 00:18:16.170 declared the image was not a painting and contained 00:18:16.170 --> 00:18:18.789 real human blood while simultaneously admitting 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:21.049 they had no idea how the image was actually formed. 00:18:21.230 --> 00:18:24.450 And finally, that confident verdict was immediately 00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:27.150 thrown into question by skeptics who pointed 00:18:27.150 --> 00:18:29.990 out that the scientists the research had deep 00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:33.069 pre -existing ties to an organization devoted 00:18:33.069 --> 00:18:35.809 to the relic, highlighting a massive potential 00:18:35.809 --> 00:18:39.630 for interpretive bias. It is a story that ultimately 00:18:39.630 --> 00:18:42.190 provides no easy answers, satisfying neither 00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:44.690 side completely. If we connect this to the bigger 00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:48.650 picture, the Sterp Saga is a profound lesson 00:18:48.650 --> 00:18:50.670 in critical thinking. Definitely. We live in 00:18:50.670 --> 00:18:52.750 an era where we are constantly presented with 00:18:52.750 --> 00:18:55.630 scientific data as if it is absolute gospel. 00:18:55.819 --> 00:18:58.099 We see a headline that says, scientists at the 00:18:58.099 --> 00:19:00.799 Jet Propulsion Laboratory confirm X, and we just 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.579 accept it. But data never exists in a vacuum. 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.460 Raw numbers have to be interpreted by human beings. 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:09.019 And human beings have blind spots. Always. When 00:19:09.019 --> 00:19:11.099 you are presented with research, you must always 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:13.059 look at the personal affiliations of the researchers. 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:15.619 You have to look at who funded the operation. 00:19:16.180 --> 00:19:18.519 And crucially, you have to look at what disciplines 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.480 were missing from the room when the conclusions 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.650 were drawn. That's a great takeaway. A thermal 00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:24.690 chemist can tell you with absolute certainty 00:19:24.690 --> 00:19:27.130 what elements are present on a piece of cloth. 00:19:28.069 --> 00:19:30.309 But if you don't invite a historian to the table, 00:19:31.150 --> 00:19:34.029 you might completely misunderstand how those 00:19:34.029 --> 00:19:36.009 elements got there in the first place. Context 00:19:36.009 --> 00:19:38.650 is just as important as the data itself. Well, 00:19:38.650 --> 00:19:40.630 we have covered a massive amount of historical 00:19:40.630 --> 00:19:42.710 and scientific ground today. But before we wrap 00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:44.589 up, I want to leave you with one final thought 00:19:44.589 --> 00:19:47.289 to ponder on your own. Let's hear it. Think back 00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:51.009 to that caveat in the 1981 STIRP report. They 00:19:51.009 --> 00:19:53.250 explicitly noted that the mechanism of the image 00:19:53.250 --> 00:19:56.470 would remain an unsolved mystery until some scientists 00:19:56.470 --> 00:19:58.670 in the future conduct further studies with better 00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:01.490 tools. A challenge to the future. Exactly. And 00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:04.789 we are that future. I want you to imagine something. 00:20:05.349 --> 00:20:08.329 If a ragtag group of self -funded aerospace scientists 00:20:08.329 --> 00:20:11.869 could adapt 1970s Mars technology to cause this 00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:14.589 much of a stir, what secrets would scientists 00:20:14.589 --> 00:20:17.920 uncover today? Oh, wow. with modern tech. Yeah. 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:21.039 Imagine if an interdisciplinary team physicists, 00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:24.559 archaeologists, art historians and skeptics were 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:27.240 locked in a room with the shroud right now. If 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.720 1970s sticky tape and early 3D models could decode 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.039 a topographical map, what would the artificial 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.660 intelligence, the molecular mapping and the hyper 00:20:35.660 --> 00:20:38.019 advanced imaging technologies of our current 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:40.839 era reveal about those linen fibers? The tools 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.140 evolve, the disciplines expand, but the human 00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:45.579 drive to solve the mystery endures. It certainly 00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:47.599 does. Thank you so much for joining us on this 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.000 deep dive. Keep asking questions, always check 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.960 the context of your sources, and we will catch 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:52.599 you next time.