WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.019 The Deep Dive. Unmasking Jigsaw John, the LAPD's 00:00:04.019 --> 00:00:06.480 legendary serial killer hunter. Join us on this 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.140 exclusive deep dive into the 51 -year career 00:00:09.140 --> 00:00:11.839 of John P. St. John, arguably the most relentless 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.710 LAPD homicide detective in history. Known as 00:00:14.710 --> 00:00:17.170 Jigsaw John, St. John spent decades investigating 00:00:17.170 --> 00:00:19.449 the darkest chapters of Los Angeles true crime. 00:00:19.649 --> 00:00:21.589 From his early assignment on the infamous Black 00:00:21.589 --> 00:00:23.890 Dahlia murder to tracking down notorious serial 00:00:23.890 --> 00:00:25.929 killers like the Night Stalker, the Hillside 00:00:25.929 --> 00:00:28.449 Stranglers, and the freeway killer William Bonin, 00:00:28.670 --> 00:00:31.269 this deep dive explores the mind, methods, and 00:00:31.269 --> 00:00:34.219 legacy of a true law enforcement legend. Discover 00:00:34.219 --> 00:00:36.700 how a mix of dogged determination and encyclopedic 00:00:36.700 --> 00:00:38.640 memory and a controversial confession letter 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.079 secured his place in history. Perfect for true 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:43.240 crime enthusiasts and anyone fascinated by the 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:45.439 evolution of criminal science and forensic techniques. 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.759 SEO keywords woven in. LAPD Detective, Jigsaw 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:51.240 John, John P. St. John, True Crime, Black Dahlia 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:53.359 Murders, Serial Killers, Richard Ramirez, Night 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:55.399 Stalker, Hillside Stranglers, Freeway Killer 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:57.679 William Bonin, Los Angeles True Crime, Criminal 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.359 Science, Forensic Techniques, SEO Keywords woven 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:03.100 in. Welcome to another custom tailored deep dive. 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:05.859 We have a really dense and honestly a fascinating 00:01:05.859 --> 00:01:07.900 subject to explore with you today. I really do. 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:10.239 So I want you to just take a second and think 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.659 about the physical and mental toll of working 00:01:12.659 --> 00:01:15.280 a high stakes job. Right, any high -stakes job. 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:19.120 Exactly. We all know people who burn out of demanding 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.780 fields. Law, medicine, finance. They last maybe 00:01:22.780 --> 00:01:25.000 five, ten years if you're lucky. Yeah, exactly. 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:27.819 But today, we are looking at a man who walked 00:01:27.819 --> 00:01:30.459 into the Los Angeles Police Department in 1942, 00:01:30.939 --> 00:01:33.680 became a homicide detective, and didn't retire 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:36.319 until 1993. It's almost hard to comprehend. It 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.879 really is. That is 51 years on the force. And 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:42.299 43 of those years were spent actively investigating 00:01:42.299 --> 00:01:46.879 the most horrific complex and just grotesque 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:49.400 murders in one of the most volatile cities in 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:52.379 America. And we are unpacking the life, the methodology, 00:01:52.579 --> 00:01:55.180 and really the massive historical footprint of 00:01:55.180 --> 00:01:57.299 John Patrick St. John. Better known to the world 00:01:57.299 --> 00:02:00.780 as Jigsaw John. Yes. And it's a timeline that 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:03.819 almost defies human endurance. When we analyze 00:02:03.819 --> 00:02:05.900 his career today, using all these incredible 00:02:05.900 --> 00:02:08.080 historical sources, we are not just looking at 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.300 a biographical sketch of a single detective. 00:02:10.419 --> 00:02:13.080 Right. We are looking at a walking breathing 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:16.659 archive of modern criminal investigation. To 00:02:16.659 --> 00:02:19.240 start in 1942. That's World War II. Exactly. 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:22.439 He was trained in an era. where policing relied 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:25.699 on literal shoe leather, carbon paper, and neighborhood 00:02:25.699 --> 00:02:28.180 informants. Yeah, very analog. Highly analog. 00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:30.219 Yeah. But by the time he retired in the early 00:02:30.219 --> 00:02:33.139 1990s, he was operating in a world of computerized 00:02:33.139 --> 00:02:36.080 fingerprint databases, behavioral profiling, 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:38.699 and the dawn of DNA evidence. And what's most 00:02:38.699 --> 00:02:41.099 striking to me from the materials we're reviewing 00:02:41.099 --> 00:02:43.539 is that he didn't just passively witness this 00:02:43.539 --> 00:02:46.099 evolution. No, he actively bridged the gap. OK, 00:02:46.099 --> 00:02:48.560 let's unpack this because that timeline is exactly 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:52.349 what caught my attention first. the LAPD in 1942 00:02:52.349 --> 00:02:54.650 places him right in the middle of World War II. 00:02:54.969 --> 00:02:57.509 Los Angeles was a mobilized, booming wartime 00:02:57.509 --> 00:02:59.289 city back then. Right, the social fabric was 00:02:59.289 --> 00:03:01.629 shifting so rapidly and then he stayed on through 00:03:01.629 --> 00:03:04.129 the post -war population boom. And the massive 00:03:04.129 --> 00:03:07.330 cultural upheavals of the 60s and 70s. The rising 00:03:07.330 --> 00:03:14.849 crime rates, the crack epidemic of the 90s. transformed 00:03:14.849 --> 00:03:17.810 completely, demographically, technologically. 00:03:18.069 --> 00:03:20.949 But his specific mandate, solving homicides, 00:03:21.449 --> 00:03:23.990 remained this dark, unchanging constant that 00:03:23.990 --> 00:03:26.490 he just had to confront every single day. And 00:03:26.490 --> 00:03:29.090 because of that incredible longevity, upon his 00:03:29.090 --> 00:03:31.490 retirement, He held the highest seniority in 00:03:31.490 --> 00:03:34.569 the entire LAPD. Which earned him a very specific 00:03:34.569 --> 00:03:38.009 honor, right? Yes. LAPD Detective badge number 00:03:38.009 --> 00:03:41.090 one. Wow. And badge number one carries an immense 00:03:41.090 --> 00:03:43.710 psychological and institutional weight within 00:03:43.710 --> 00:03:45.810 law enforcement. It's not just an honorary title 00:03:45.810 --> 00:03:47.889 they hand out for good behavior. Not at all. 00:03:48.250 --> 00:03:51.039 It is a physical manifestation of survival. The 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:53.800 burnout rate in homicide divisions is notoriously 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:56.599 high. I can only imagine. Detectives are exposed 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:58.979 to the absolute worst of human nature daily. 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.479 The grief of families, the grotesque reality 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:03.939 of crime scenes. And the constant pressure from 00:04:03.939 --> 00:04:06.719 the media and politicians to close cases. Exactly. 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:09.560 So to hold badge number one means you have outlasted 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:12.259 every single one of your peers. You've absorbed 00:04:12.259 --> 00:04:15.020 decades of trauma and stress without letting 00:04:15.020 --> 00:04:17.899 it break your analytical mind. It signifies a 00:04:17.899 --> 00:04:20.560 resilience that very few human beings possess. 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.300 And he needed every ounce of that analytical 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:25.079 mind right from the beginning. He really did. 00:04:25.220 --> 00:04:27.160 Because he was assigned to the Homicide Division 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:31.189 in 1949, which... just for context for you listening, 00:04:31.550 --> 00:04:34.189 later merged into the legendary robbery homicide 00:04:34.189 --> 00:04:38.410 division or RHD in 1969. And one of his very 00:04:38.410 --> 00:04:40.970 first assignments as a young homicide detective 00:04:40.970 --> 00:04:43.569 was the Black Dahlia murder. Elizabeth Short. 00:04:43.670 --> 00:04:46.569 Yes. That case is essentially the cornerstone 00:04:46.569 --> 00:04:49.829 of Los Angeles true crime lore. It was a brutally 00:04:49.829 --> 00:04:52.930 violent, highly theatrical and unsolved murder 00:04:52.930 --> 00:04:55.550 that just spawned an absolute circus of false 00:04:55.550 --> 00:04:58.389 confessions and media hysteria. It was an investigative 00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:01.569 nightmare. In 1947, when she was murdered, and 00:05:01.569 --> 00:05:04.250 continuing into 1949 when St. John joined homicide. 00:05:04.430 --> 00:05:06.810 The sheer volume of tips must have been overwhelming. 00:05:07.110 --> 00:05:08.970 Completely. And they had no centralized database 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:11.430 to cross -reference suspects. Plus, the highly 00:05:11.430 --> 00:05:13.350 transient nature of the post -war Los Angeles 00:05:13.350 --> 00:05:15.949 population made it a labyrinth. But what stands 00:05:15.949 --> 00:05:17.850 out in our sources is not just that he worked 00:05:17.850 --> 00:05:20.490 on it early in his career. It's the psychological 00:05:20.490 --> 00:05:23.569 grip it had on him. That's a crucial point. His 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:26.029 wife noted that he was still actively trying 00:05:26.029 --> 00:05:29.170 to solve the Black Dahlia case just weeks before 00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:33.069 his death in 1995. Which is insane to think about. 00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:36.189 That is 46 years of carrying an open loop in 00:05:36.189 --> 00:05:38.790 his mind. It really shows the kind of mind it 00:05:38.790 --> 00:05:41.550 takes to solve puzzles when the pieces are human 00:05:41.550 --> 00:05:44.670 lives. I want to dig into that specific mindset, 00:05:44.670 --> 00:05:47.930 actually, because that is how he earned the nickname 00:05:47.930 --> 00:05:50.910 that defined his entire career. Jigsaw John. 00:05:51.069 --> 00:05:53.589 Right. And Jigsaw John didn't actually come from 00:05:53.589 --> 00:05:55.629 the Black Dahlia case, right? No. It originated 00:05:55.629 --> 00:05:58.009 from another early career case in Griffith Park. 00:05:58.209 --> 00:06:01.329 The details are pretty grim. They are. It was 00:06:01.329 --> 00:06:03.430 a dismemberment murder where the victim had been 00:06:03.430 --> 00:06:05.490 scattered, essentially cut up into puzzle pieces. 00:06:05.529 --> 00:06:08.230 And he solved it. He did. And the moniker stuck. 00:06:08.709 --> 00:06:10.949 But not just because of the literal dismemberment 00:06:10.949 --> 00:06:14.569 in that one specific case. Right. It stuck because 00:06:14.569 --> 00:06:17.189 it perfectly described his cognitive approach 00:06:17.189 --> 00:06:20.470 to investigative work. Think of a jigsaw puzzle 00:06:20.470 --> 00:06:23.089 where half the pieces are missing and the picture 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:26.149 on the box is completely hidden. That was his 00:06:26.149 --> 00:06:28.769 daily reality. The metaphor of the jigsaw puzzle 00:06:28.769 --> 00:06:31.550 is highly revealing when we break down the psychology 00:06:31.550 --> 00:06:34.610 of an investigator. How so? Well, when the average 00:06:34.610 --> 00:06:37.870 person or even a young patrol officer walks into 00:06:37.870 --> 00:06:41.550 a chaotic, gruesome scene like a dismemberment 00:06:41.550 --> 00:06:44.670 in a sprawling area like Griffith Park. The natural 00:06:44.670 --> 00:06:47.029 human reaction is to be overwhelmed. Overwhelmed 00:06:47.029 --> 00:06:49.569 by the grotesque nature of the violence, the 00:06:49.569 --> 00:06:52.230 sheer horror creates cognitive static. Right, 00:06:52.329 --> 00:06:54.629 you can't think straight. Exactly. So to earn 00:06:54.629 --> 00:06:57.449 a nickname like Jigsaw implies that St. John 00:06:57.449 --> 00:07:00.230 possessed a rare ability to bypass that emotional 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:02.569 shock entirely. He could just look at an array 00:07:02.569 --> 00:07:05.810 of seemingly disconnected, horrifying elements, 00:07:06.209 --> 00:07:08.589 compartmentalize the trauma, and immediately 00:07:08.589 --> 00:07:11.230 begin searching for the logical structural connections. 00:07:11.389 --> 00:07:12.889 He wasn't looking at the horror. He was looking 00:07:12.889 --> 00:07:15.129 at the edges of the pieces to see how they locked 00:07:15.129 --> 00:07:18.050 together. And we have to remember, in the 1950s, 00:07:18.269 --> 00:07:20.529 piecing together a case wasn't a matter of running 00:07:20.529 --> 00:07:23.970 DNA or checking cell phone tower pings. Not at 00:07:23.970 --> 00:07:26.689 all. If a body was found in Griffith Park, you 00:07:26.689 --> 00:07:29.370 were relying on primitive blood typing, highly 00:07:29.370 --> 00:07:32.660 subjective witness descriptions, and manual labor. 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:35.220 You had to physically walk to different precincts 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:37.579 to look through paper files to see if a similar 00:07:37.579 --> 00:07:40.079 crime had occurred. You had to have an encyclopedic 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.300 memory just to know what questions to ask. Which 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:44.720 means his own brain had to act as the mainframe. 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:48.279 Precisely. The jigsaw methodology required his 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:50.939 mind to be the database. And if we look at the 00:07:50.939 --> 00:07:53.620 trajectory of his career, that specific ability 00:07:53.620 --> 00:07:56.759 to store, recall, and cross -reference minute 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.860 details over decades. That is exactly what allowed 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:02.220 him to transition into the next, arguably most 00:08:02.220 --> 00:08:04.439 harrowing phase of his career. The era of the 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.000 serial killer. Yes. And this is where his resume 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:10.519 becomes truly staggering. Over his career, St. 00:08:10.620 --> 00:08:13.139 John became a recognized, heavily relied upon 00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:15.779 authority on serial murders. He didn't just consult 00:08:15.779 --> 00:08:18.420 on them. He actively worked 12 serial killer 00:08:18.420 --> 00:08:21.639 cases. Which is an incredible number. For context, 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:24.379 most homicide detectives will go an entire career 00:08:24.379 --> 00:08:27.480 without crossing paths with a genuine textbook 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:30.120 serial killer. Right? To work 12 of them puts 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:32.120 him in a category of law enforcement that is 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:35.019 almost entirely unique. So working 12 serial 00:08:35.019 --> 00:08:37.580 killer cases means he developed a highly refined, 00:08:38.019 --> 00:08:40.960 internalized pattern recognition system for psychopathy. 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:44.480 Yes. Because investigating ethereal murder is 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.899 fundamentally different from a standard domestic 00:08:46.899 --> 00:08:49.980 homicide or a gang -related killing. In a typical 00:08:49.980 --> 00:08:52.559 murder, you look closely at the victim's inner 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:55.360 circle, right? Exactly. Spouses, business partners, 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:58.259 rivals. Because there's almost always a pre -existing 00:08:58.259 --> 00:09:00.460 relationship between the victim and the perpetrator. 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:03.259 And the motive is usually tangible. Money. jealousy, 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:06.779 revenge. But serial killers generally target 00:09:06.779 --> 00:09:09.440 strangers. Their motives are internal, often 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.220 driven by highly specific psychological compulsions. 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:16.059 And they operate across vast, sprawling geographical 00:09:16.059 --> 00:09:19.259 areas, intentionally crossing police jurisdictions 00:09:19.259 --> 00:09:22.639 to muddy the waters. Which is why having a living 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.529 database like St. John was so crucial. Just look 00:09:25.529 --> 00:09:28.210 at the list of the killers he pursued. It tracks 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:30.330 the evolution of the American serial killer. 00:09:30.509 --> 00:09:32.929 It's like a dark, greatest hits of true crime 00:09:32.929 --> 00:09:36.149 history. In the 1950s, he worked on Harvey Glatman, 00:09:36.389 --> 00:09:39.429 the lonely hearts killer. Glatman used the promise 00:09:39.429 --> 00:09:42.450 of modeling jobs to lure young women, tying them 00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:44.970 up and photographing them before murdering them. 00:09:45.289 --> 00:09:47.950 Then you move into the late 1970s with the hillside 00:09:47.950 --> 00:09:50.850 stranglers, Angela Blono and Kenneth Bianchi. 00:09:51.070 --> 00:09:53.370 That was a jurisdictional nightmare. It was. 00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:56.419 There were dumping bodies on hillsides all over 00:09:56.419 --> 00:09:58.860 the greater Los Angeles area, terrorizing the 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:01.519 entire city. Then the 1980s hit, and you have 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.480 the South Side Slayer cases, which were deeply 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.600 intertwined with the crack epidemic. And the 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:08.860 Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez. Richard Ramirez 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.179 is a fascinating contrast to someone like Gladman, 00:10:11.259 --> 00:10:13.700 isn't he? Absolutely. The Night Stalker's MO 00:10:13.700 --> 00:10:16.259 was incredibly erratic. He didn't stick to a 00:10:16.259 --> 00:10:19.200 specific demographic. He broke into homes randomly, 00:10:19.539 --> 00:10:22.460 using different weapons. Guns, knives, blunt 00:10:22.460 --> 00:10:25.629 objects. That level of chaos makes traditional 00:10:25.629 --> 00:10:28.389 investigative work incredibly difficult. You 00:10:28.389 --> 00:10:31.049 are relying on identifying subtle behavioral 00:10:31.049 --> 00:10:34.549 signatures rather than a fixed MO. So St. John 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:37.350 had to analyze these sprawling chaotic crime 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:39.909 scenes and find the hidden thread? Whether it 00:10:39.909 --> 00:10:42.330 was a specific type of knot used for ligatures, 00:10:42.549 --> 00:10:45.870 a unique shoe print, or a subtle geographic pattern 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:48.169 in the attacks. Which perfectly sets the stage 00:10:48.169 --> 00:10:50.370 for the most defining capture of his career. 00:10:50.529 --> 00:10:53.220 The hunt for William Bonin. known as the Freeway 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:56.519 Killer. This was a sprawling, brutal eight -year 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.690 investigation. Bonin used the massive interconnected 00:10:59.690 --> 00:11:02.049 Southern California freeway system as his hunting 00:11:02.049 --> 00:11:05.029 ground, targeting young men and boys. An eight 00:11:05.029 --> 00:11:07.429 year hunt means hitting dead end after dead end, 00:11:07.509 --> 00:11:09.929 dealing with false leads and watching the body 00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:12.269 count rise while the public panics. The toll 00:11:12.269 --> 00:11:14.750 of an eight year investigation cannot be overstated. 00:11:14.809 --> 00:11:17.669 It requires an extraordinary level of sustained 00:11:17.669 --> 00:11:20.350 focus. Most cases would go cold. A serial case 00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:22.649 that remains unsolved for that long often goes 00:11:22.649 --> 00:11:24.990 cold simply because resources are diverted to 00:11:24.990 --> 00:11:28.110 newer active cases. Ron's dogged determination 00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:31.210 kept the Bonin investigation alive. He understood 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:33.889 that the freeway system offered the killer anonymity 00:11:33.889 --> 00:11:36.970 and rapid mobility, making traditional choke 00:11:36.970 --> 00:11:39.659 point policing impossible. They had to rely on 00:11:39.659 --> 00:11:42.779 a combination of painstaking victimology, tracking 00:11:42.779 --> 00:11:45.480 missing persons reports across numerous jurisdictions, 00:11:45.779 --> 00:11:47.860 and basically waiting for the killer to make 00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:50.679 a microscopic error. And that error eventually 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:53.500 led to a tip. Which led St. John to track down 00:11:53.500 --> 00:11:56.460 a downy California truck driver. The climax of 00:11:56.460 --> 00:11:59.159 this investigation is incredibly intense. It 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:02.799 really is. On June 11th, 1980, St. John and his 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.139 team didn't just arrest William Bonin at his 00:12:05.139 --> 00:12:07.379 house. No, they tailed him. They tailed him and 00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:10.000 they captured him literally in the act of assaulting 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.399 a victim in his van. And when they breached the 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:14.879 vehicle, they found Bonin's murder kit inside. 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:17.480 Just imagine the relief, but also the horror, 00:12:17.620 --> 00:12:19.919 of opening that van and finding the murder kit. 00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:21.860 You know you've caught the monster, but you're 00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:24.240 staring right at his tools? It is the rarest 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.940 and most critical outcome in this serial investigation. 00:12:27.259 --> 00:12:29.919 an active intervention. By catching him in the 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:33.279 act, they unequivocally saved that specific victim's 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.879 life and brought an immediate halt to the killings. 00:12:36.179 --> 00:12:38.679 But from an investigative standpoint, breaching 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:41.659 that van and finding the murder kit provides 00:12:41.659 --> 00:12:44.419 a completely unfiltered look into the killer's 00:12:44.419 --> 00:12:46.669 pathology. You are looking at the instruments 00:12:46.669 --> 00:12:49.610 of his compulsion. It solidifies the abstract 00:12:49.610 --> 00:12:53.330 profile into a terrifying physical reality. It's 00:12:53.330 --> 00:12:55.629 a phenomenal physical triumph for law enforcement. 00:12:56.070 --> 00:12:59.610 And in 1982, St. John received the LAPD's Distinguished 00:12:59.610 --> 00:13:02.330 Service Medal. specifically for his work on this 00:13:02.330 --> 00:13:04.769 case. A well -deserved honor after eight years. 00:13:04.990 --> 00:13:06.990 And just to close the loop on Bonin's timeline, 00:13:07.230 --> 00:13:09.429 he was eventually executed by lethal injection 00:13:09.429 --> 00:13:13.309 in 1996, a year after St. John passed away. But 00:13:13.309 --> 00:13:15.690 capturing Bonin physically in the van was only 00:13:15.690 --> 00:13:17.929 the first half of the battle. Right. Here is 00:13:17.929 --> 00:13:19.990 where it gets really interesting, because this 00:13:19.990 --> 00:13:22.669 is where the story pivots from. physical pursuit 00:13:22.669 --> 00:13:25.830 to intense psychological warfare. And where we 00:13:25.830 --> 00:13:28.629 see St. John operating in a very gray, controversial 00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:31.610 space. So what does this all mean? We often assume 00:13:31.610 --> 00:13:33.629 that catching a serial killer in the act with 00:13:33.629 --> 00:13:36.149 the tools of the crime guarantees a swift, all 00:13:36.149 --> 00:13:38.669 -encompassing conviction. But the legal reality 00:13:38.669 --> 00:13:41.669 is much more complex. Even though Bonin was in 00:13:41.669 --> 00:13:44.090 custody, the district attorney's office was struggling 00:13:44.090 --> 00:13:47.629 to build a solid, expansive case that would definitively 00:13:47.629 --> 00:13:50.029 tie him to the long string of previous murders. 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:52.620 They had him for the immediate crime in the van. 00:13:52.899 --> 00:13:55.279 Yes. But proving the massive historical body 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:57.399 count beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of 00:13:57.399 --> 00:14:00.100 law was proving incredibly difficult. Because 00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:02.700 the evidence for the older murders was fragmented. 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:05.179 The burden of proof in a capital murder case 00:14:05.179 --> 00:14:08.519 is immense. If the DA cannot definitively link 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:10.960 the physical evidence from the older, colder 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.720 crime scenes to the suspect in custody. There 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.080 is a very real risk that the killer only faces 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:19.120 charges for the most recent undeniable offenses. 00:14:19.580 --> 00:14:21.980 Exactly. That could mean a prolific serial killer 00:14:21.980 --> 00:14:25.000 evades justice for dozens of victims. So, with 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:27.200 the legal system faltering, Bonin is sitting 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.600 in custody, and suddenly he receives a letter. 00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:32.710 A letter purportedly written by the agonizing, 00:14:32.789 --> 00:14:35.029 grieving mother of one of his earlier victims. 00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:37.730 The letter begs him, pleads with him on a deeply 00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:39.950 emotional level to simply tell her what happened 00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:42.029 to her son so she can finally have some peace. 00:14:42.590 --> 00:14:46.230 And Bonin reads this letter. And something inside 00:14:46.230 --> 00:14:49.509 him shifts. He is moved by it. He confesses to 00:14:49.509 --> 00:14:51.509 that specific murder. And once the floodgates 00:14:51.509 --> 00:14:54.629 open, he proceeds to confess to the entire string 00:14:54.629 --> 00:14:57.990 of murders. The DA finally has the airtight case 00:14:57.990 --> 00:15:00.850 they need. It appears at first glance to be a 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:03.090 breakthrough driven by a rare moment of human 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:05.730 empathy or remorse from a psychopath. Await. 00:15:06.269 --> 00:15:08.529 Just before the trial date arrives, St. John 00:15:08.529 --> 00:15:11.190 approaches the deputy DA and drops a bombshell. 00:15:11.509 --> 00:15:14.149 He says, I've got to tell you something. It wasn't 00:15:14.149 --> 00:15:16.549 the mother who wrote that letter. St. John had 00:15:16.549 --> 00:15:19.269 orchestrated the entire thing. He forged a fake 00:15:19.269 --> 00:15:21.830 letter from a grieving mother to exploit the 00:15:21.830 --> 00:15:24.240 killer's psychology and force a confession. When 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.799 I read that, my immediate thought was, how does 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:29.340 a defense attorney not immediately tear that 00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:31.320 apart in court? That's a great question. How 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.860 is that even legal? Well, this raises an important 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:36.720 question, and it requires us to look at the legal 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.240 framework surrounding police interrogation and 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:42.259 deception, specifically in the 1980s. Let's look 00:15:42.259 --> 00:15:44.779 at the ethics versus the results here. Historically, 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.279 the courts, including the Supreme Court in cases 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.600 like Frasier v. Cupp in 1969, have established 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:53.139 that police are legally permitted to use deceptive 00:15:53.139 --> 00:15:55.860 tactics during an interrogation. They can lie 00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:59.100 to a suspect. Yes. They can claim they have a 00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:01.899 witness who doesn't exist, or that a co -conspirator 00:16:01.899 --> 00:16:04.399 has already confessed. So the police are allowed 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:07.679 to lie, but forging a physical document from 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.820 a civilian, that feels like crossing a massive 00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:12.279 line. It pushes the boundary right to the absolute 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:15.320 edge. The legal threshold is whether the deception 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.639 overbeared the will of the suspect, rendering 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.409 the confession legally involuntary. So if the 00:16:20.409 --> 00:16:23.070 police use physical coercion or threaten a suspect's 00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:25.350 family, the confession is tossed out. Correct. 00:16:25.970 --> 00:16:28.370 But an emotional appeal, even a manufactured 00:16:28.370 --> 00:16:31.029 one, is often deemed legally admissible if the 00:16:31.029 --> 00:16:33.210 suspect still freely chose to speak. And St. 00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:35.909 John intimately understood Bonin's psychological 00:16:35.909 --> 00:16:38.269 vulnerabilities. He knew a hard line, aggressive 00:16:38.269 --> 00:16:40.809 interrogation wouldn't break him. But a manufactured 00:16:40.809 --> 00:16:43.590 emotional plea tapped into a specific narcissistic 00:16:43.590 --> 00:16:47.730 desire. Bonin had to be seen as merciful or powerful 00:16:47.730 --> 00:16:50.889 in that moment. It is tactical brilliance, but 00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:53.769 it is incredibly audacious. He essentially looked 00:16:53.769 --> 00:16:56.350 at the failing machinery of the district attorney's 00:16:56.350 --> 00:16:58.730 office, realized the monster might slip through 00:16:58.730 --> 00:17:01.309 the cracks on a technicality, and decided to 00:17:01.309 --> 00:17:03.909 engineer his own psychological trap. He built 00:17:03.909 --> 00:17:07.109 a jigsaw puzzle piece out of thin air that fit 00:17:07.109 --> 00:17:10.130 perfectly into Bonin's mind. It speaks to the 00:17:10.130 --> 00:17:13.029 extreme measures that detectives of his era utilized. 00:17:13.430 --> 00:17:16.230 He was operating in a transitional period. Today, 00:17:16.470 --> 00:17:18.990 a defense team might heavily litigate a tactic 00:17:18.990 --> 00:17:22.029 like that, arguing it crosses the line from deception 00:17:22.029 --> 00:17:24.920 into psychological coercion. But in the context 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.519 of the freeway killer investigation, St. John 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.880 prioritized securing the confession and ensuring 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.259 a predator was permanently removed from society. 00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:35.319 He utilized every legal gray area available to 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:37.440 him. And it worked. He secured the confessions. 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.779 This blend of gritty old school tactics and psychological 00:17:40.779 --> 00:17:43.299 manipulation is what made him so effective. But 00:17:43.299 --> 00:17:45.640 the sources make a very clear point that St. 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:48.299 John was not just a relic of the 1940s relying 00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:51.259 solely on tricks. He survived 51 years because 00:17:51.259 --> 00:17:53.519 he constantly adapted to the modernizing world 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:56.839 of forensics. He solved over two thirds of the 00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:58.779 more than one thousand homicides he worked on. 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:01.099 That statistic is worth dwelling on. A closer 00:18:01.099 --> 00:18:03.900 rate of over 66 percent on a volume of more than 00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:07.160 a thousand cases is staggering, especially considering 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:09.240 the robbery homicide division does not handle 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.980 straightforward open and shut cases. Right. They 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:14.740 are assigned the complex hood units, gangland 00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:18.130 assassinations, complex murders for hire. drive 00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:20.890 -by shootings where witnesses are actively intimidated. 00:18:21.710 --> 00:18:24.170 How did he physically manage that transition, 00:18:24.170 --> 00:18:27.269 going from carbon copies in the 40s to the high 00:18:27.269 --> 00:18:30.509 -tech 1990s? He embraced the technological revolution 00:18:30.509 --> 00:18:33.769 in criminal science. During his tenure, he saw 00:18:33.769 --> 00:18:37.009 the introduction of AFI, the Automated Fingerprint 00:18:37.009 --> 00:18:39.750 Identification System, which revolutionized how 00:18:39.750 --> 00:18:42.049 latent prints were matched. He also saw the creation 00:18:42.049 --> 00:18:44.450 of ViaCap, the violent criminal apprehension 00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:46.849 program, which finally allowed agencies across 00:18:46.849 --> 00:18:49.750 the country to link serial killer M .O .s digitally. 00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:51.839 And toward the end of his career, he witnessed 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.099 the dawn of DNA profiling. What made Singh Chan 00:18:55.099 --> 00:18:58.400 uniquely powerful was that he layered these new 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.819 scientific tools over his foundational old school 00:19:01.819 --> 00:19:04.480 investigative instincts. If we connect this to 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.700 the bigger picture, he didn't replace his memory 00:19:06.700 --> 00:19:09.599 with a computer? No, he used the computer to 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:11.819 verify what his memory was already telling him. 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:15.859 He is the bridge between the noir era gumshoe 00:19:15.859 --> 00:19:19.619 policing of the 1940s and the modern DNA driven 00:19:19.619 --> 00:19:23.069 CSI era. And that kind of track record, combined 00:19:23.069 --> 00:19:25.589 with his larger -than -life tactics, made fame 00:19:25.589 --> 00:19:28.069 absolutely inevitable. You can't forge confession 00:19:28.069 --> 00:19:29.930 letters to catch serial killers without Hollywood 00:19:29.930 --> 00:19:32.609 noticing. Los Angeles Times writer Al Martinez 00:19:32.609 --> 00:19:34.890 wrote a book about him called Jigsaw John in 00:19:34.890 --> 00:19:39.250 1975. And that book was adapted into a 1976 NBC 00:19:39.250 --> 00:19:41.730 television series starring veteran character 00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:44.609 actor Jack Warden. Imagine the cognitive dissonance 00:19:44.609 --> 00:19:47.150 of investigating horrific, bloody crime scenes 00:19:47.150 --> 00:19:49.309 during the day and then going home to watch a 00:19:49.309 --> 00:19:51.650 dramatized version of yourself on network television 00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:54.170 at night. The media attention is a double -edged 00:19:54.170 --> 00:19:56.650 sword in law enforcement. When a detective becomes 00:19:56.650 --> 00:19:58.609 a public figure, it can easily breed resentment 00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:01.269 within the ranks. Colleagues might feel the detective 00:20:01.269 --> 00:20:04.450 has gone Hollywood. Prioritizing media soundbites 00:20:04.450 --> 00:20:07.079 over meticulous casework. But the most telling 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.680 aspect of St. John's career is that the fame 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:13.359 never eroded the LAPD's internal trust in him. 00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:15.839 That is abundantly clear when you look at the 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.740 non -serial cases he was assigned. When things 00:20:18.740 --> 00:20:20.940 went wrong inside the department, they called 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:24.299 Jigsaw John. Cases like the Onion Fields murder 00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:26.960 and the William Leisure case. We need to unpack 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:28.960 these because they represent a completely different 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.119 kind of pressure. The Onion Fields case is a 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.519 foundational trauma in the history of the LAPD. 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:38.230 In March 1963, Two LAPD officers, Ian Campbell 00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:41.230 and Carl Hedinger, were kidnapped during a routine 00:20:41.230 --> 00:20:43.890 traffic stop by two criminals, Jimmy Lee Smith 00:20:43.890 --> 00:20:46.329 and Gregory Powell. The officers were driven 00:20:46.329 --> 00:20:48.630 to an onion field near Bakersfield where Campbell 00:20:48.630 --> 00:20:51.309 was executed and Hedinger barely escaped. The 00:20:51.309 --> 00:20:53.690 psychological devastation that case inflicted 00:20:53.690 --> 00:20:56.289 on the department was profound. Assigning St. 00:20:56.349 --> 00:20:58.710 John to assist in the aftermath indicates that 00:20:58.710 --> 00:21:01.269 departmental leadership viewed him as a steady 00:21:01.269 --> 00:21:04.170 analytical anchor in a time of extreme emotional 00:21:04.170 --> 00:21:06.559 volatility. But the William Leisure case is almost 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:09.779 the exact opposite. Right. In onion fields, cops 00:21:09.779 --> 00:21:12.400 were the victims. In the Leisure case, the cop 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.579 was the monster. William Leisure was a mild -mannered 00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:20.019 LAPD traffic officer who, in the 1980s, was revealed 00:21:20.019 --> 00:21:23.339 to be running a massive criminal enterprise involving 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:27.160 stolen luxury yachts, fraud, and acting as a 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.640 contract hitman. Investigating a fellow police 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.240 officer for murder for hire is arguably the most 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.420 sensitive assignment a detective can receive. 00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:38.339 It requires absolute unshakable impartiality. 00:21:38.859 --> 00:21:40.759 The investigator knows that the defense attorneys 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:43.599 will scrutinize every single report, every piece 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:45.839 of evidence looking for any sign of internal 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.660 bias, corruption or a cover -up. The department 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:50.859 trusted St. John with the Lizure case because 00:21:50.859 --> 00:21:53.480 they knew his methodology was airtight. He would 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.559 follow the jigsaw pieces wherever they led, even 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.680 if they pointed to a man carrying the same badge. 00:21:57.869 --> 00:22:00.230 It validates that his reputation wasn't just 00:22:00.230 --> 00:22:03.309 media hype. It was built on unassailable competence. 00:22:03.609 --> 00:22:05.190 He navigated the politics of the department, 00:22:05.549 --> 00:22:07.509 the evolution of science, the worst killers of 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:09.890 the century, and the glare of Hollywood. Which 00:22:09.890 --> 00:22:12.769 brings us to the final chapter of his life. In 00:22:12.769 --> 00:22:17.329 May of 1993, after 51 years, Jigsar John finally 00:22:17.329 --> 00:22:20.089 retired. His plan was actually to transition 00:22:20.089 --> 00:22:22.630 into becoming a technical advisor for the movie 00:22:22.630 --> 00:22:25.079 industry. It makes perfect sense. Who better 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.440 to teach Hollywood how to make a police procedural 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.680 than the guy they based a show on? It would have 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:31.640 been a highly lucrative and fitting denouement 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:34.819 to his career. He could impart his vast knowledge 00:22:34.819 --> 00:22:37.420 in a simulated environment free from the actual 00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:39.720 physical and psychological dangers of the streets. 00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:42.579 But sadly, he didn't get to enjoy it. Just two 00:22:42.579 --> 00:22:46.140 years later, on May 3rd, 1995, John P. St. John 00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:49.099 passed away at the age of 77 due to complications 00:22:49.099 --> 00:22:51.980 from pneumonia and pancreatic cancer. There's 00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:54.900 a deep poignancy to that. A man survives half 00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:57.240 a century confronting armed killers and the darkest 00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.759 elements of society, only to succumb to illness 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.819 almost immediately after finally setting his 00:23:01.819 --> 00:23:04.000 badge down. It highlights the physical toll of 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.599 the job. He effectively dedicated the entirety 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:08.759 of his healthy adult lifespan to the protection 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.619 of Los Angeles. And the city recognized the magnitude 00:23:11.619 --> 00:23:13.930 of that sacrifice at his funeral. The funeral 00:23:13.930 --> 00:23:16.869 was an incredible cultural snapshot of Los Angeles 00:23:16.869 --> 00:23:20.190 in 1995. The attendee list was a who's who of 00:23:20.190 --> 00:23:23.730 the justice system. You had veteran LAPD detectives 00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:26.430 Tom Lange and Philip Van Adder. You had Judge 00:23:26.430 --> 00:23:29.869 Lance Ito. You had former LAPD chief Daryl F. 00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:32.910 Gates, who actually eulogized him, and the sitting 00:23:32.910 --> 00:23:35.849 chief Willie L. Williams. That specific gathering 00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:38.549 anchors St. John's passing firmly in the epicenter 00:23:38.549 --> 00:23:41.529 of the O .J. Simpson criminal trial. Lange, Van 00:23:41.529 --> 00:23:44.029 Adder, and Ito were the central figures in the 00:23:44.029 --> 00:23:46.109 trial of the century. Occurring at a moment when 00:23:46.109 --> 00:23:48.470 the LAPD and the broader justice system were 00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:51.269 under unprecedented global scrutiny and intense 00:23:51.269 --> 00:23:54.829 criticism. Yet amidst that chaos, the institution 00:23:54.829 --> 00:23:58.309 paused to honor St. John. Daryl Gates eulogizing 00:23:58.309 --> 00:24:01.099 him is particularly significant. Gates had worked 00:24:01.099 --> 00:24:03.480 alongside St. John decades earlier as a young 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:05.299 detective. It demonstrates that St. John wasn't 00:24:05.299 --> 00:24:08.140 just a peer. He was a foundational mentor to 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:10.259 the men who eventually ran the city. But the 00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:12.200 detail that really stuck with me was the action 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.660 taken by the current chief, Willie L. Williams. 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.180 On May 6, 1995, literally the day before St. 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.940 John passed away, Chief Williams officially reinstated 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:23.500 him to active duty. The stated reason was so 00:24:23.500 --> 00:24:26.519 that he make his final journey as a detective 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.210 of the Los Angeles Police Department. It is a 00:24:29.210 --> 00:24:33.329 profoundly moving institutional gesture. By reinstating 00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:36.390 a dying man to active duty, the department acknowledged 00:24:36.390 --> 00:24:38.990 that his identity and his service were inseparable. 00:24:39.349 --> 00:24:42.049 He wasn't simply a retired civilian who used 00:24:42.049 --> 00:24:44.609 to work there. He was recognized right up to 00:24:44.609 --> 00:24:47.349 his final breath as an active guardian of the 00:24:47.349 --> 00:24:49.390 city. So let's pull back and look at the massive 00:24:49.390 --> 00:24:52.000 expanse we've covered today. We started in the 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.140 analog film noir days of 1940s Los Angeles dissecting 00:24:56.140 --> 00:24:58.339 dismemberments in Griffith Park and navigating 00:24:58.339 --> 00:25:01.069 the frenzy of the Black Dahlia. We watched a 00:25:01.069 --> 00:25:03.609 detective manually construct a mental database 00:25:03.609 --> 00:25:06.549 of psychopathy, ultimately bridging the gap to 00:25:06.549 --> 00:25:09.170 the computerized forensics of the 1990s. We saw 00:25:09.170 --> 00:25:11.450 him hunt down the most notorious serial killers 00:25:11.450 --> 00:25:14.690 of the 20th century, orchestrate a legally audacious 00:25:14.690 --> 00:25:16.750 fake confession to capture the freeway killer, 00:25:17.170 --> 00:25:19.049 investigate betrayals within his own department, 00:25:19.230 --> 00:25:21.470 and ultimately pass away as an active detective 00:25:21.470 --> 00:25:23.809 in the eyes of the city he protected. His career 00:25:23.809 --> 00:25:26.730 stands as a monument to relentless, meticulous 00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:29.559 investigative work. But as we synthesize all 00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:31.660 of this information, I want to leave you with 00:25:31.660 --> 00:25:34.619 a final thought to consider regarding the nature 00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:37.240 of modern policing. Absolutely. When a figure 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:40.220 like John P. St. John passes away. A man who 00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:42.700 carried the intricate, microscopic details of 00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:46.299 over 1 ,000 homicides in his own mind, who intuitively 00:25:46.299 --> 00:25:48.559 understood the geography of the city and the 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.299 complex psychology of his predators, a massive 00:25:51.299 --> 00:25:53.599 volume of institutional memory vanishes with 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.680 him. Right. Today, we rely heavily on technology. 00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.880 We have highly advanced algorithms, DNA databases, 00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:02.640 and predictive behavioral models. Sure. But as 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.900 you navigate the modern true crime landscape, 00:26:05.299 --> 00:26:08.380 ask yourself, can an algorithm ever truly replicate 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:11.180 the sheer human instinct, the nuanced pattern 00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:14.119 recognition, and the unyielding dogged determination 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:16.400 of a detective who spent half a century looking 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:18.819 monsters directly in the eye. That is a phenomenal 00:26:18.819 --> 00:26:21.200 question. Does the technology make the jigsaw 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.680 -johns of the world obsolete, or does it desperately 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.440 need them to put the final pieces together? Thank 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:28.359 you so much for joining us on this deep dive. 00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:30.859 We love unpacking these complex histories with 00:26:30.859 --> 00:26:33.500 you. Keep questioning the narrative, keep looking 00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:35.819 for how the pieces fit together, and we will 00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:37.259 catch you on the next deep dive.