WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.660 I want you to imagine a Venn diagram. And it's 00:00:04.660 --> 00:00:07.059 a messy one. Okay, I'm picturing it. Right, so 00:00:07.059 --> 00:00:08.919 in the first circle you have the glitter and 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.519 the hairspray of 1980s glam metal. Sure. In the 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:15.199 second circle you have the blood and broken glass 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:17.780 of underground death match wrestling. A very 00:00:17.780 --> 00:00:20.940 different vibe. Exactly. And in the third circle, 00:00:20.980 --> 00:00:23.539 this is the wild part, you have the funeral of 00:00:23.539 --> 00:00:26.420 Charles Manson. Yeah, that is not a Venn diagram. 00:00:26.539 --> 00:00:28.339 Those were three completely different planets 00:00:28.339 --> 00:00:30.379 that should honestly never orbit each other. 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:33.460 You would definitely think so. But today, we 00:00:33.460 --> 00:00:36.340 are taking a deep dive into the life of the one 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:39.039 man who somehow lived in the dead center of all 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:41.759 three of those circles. We're looking at Billy 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.179 Graham. And honestly, looking at the research 00:00:44.179 --> 00:00:46.960 we have today, calling him eclectic feels like 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:49.439 a lazy word. Totally. He's basically the Forrest 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:51.679 Gump of the American underground. That is actually 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.140 a really perfect description, because just like 00:00:54.140 --> 00:00:57.259 Gump, Graham didn't just witness these subcultures 00:00:57.259 --> 00:00:59.679 from the sidelines, he actually shaped them. 00:00:59.899 --> 00:01:02.140 I mean, we're talking about a musician, a political 00:01:02.140 --> 00:01:05.780 activist, a horror historian, a wrestling manager, 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.579 and very controversially, a confidant to one 00:01:09.579 --> 00:01:12.180 of history's most notorious figures. And that 00:01:12.180 --> 00:01:13.980 really is our mission for this deep dive. We 00:01:13.980 --> 00:01:15.939 aren't just here to list off a weird resume for 00:01:15.939 --> 00:01:18.819 you. We want to figure out how one person operates 00:01:18.819 --> 00:01:21.739 on the fringes in so many different worlds all 00:01:21.739 --> 00:01:23.900 at the same time. Yeah, it brings up this massive 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.959 question about performance art versus reality. 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:29.819 Like, where does the bit end and the real person 00:01:29.819 --> 00:01:32.079 begin? Especially when that bit involves, you 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:35.379 know, real staple guns, real broken bones, and 00:01:35.379 --> 00:01:37.680 real funerals. Exactly. So let's rewind a bit. 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.420 We have to start where so many great underground 00:01:40.420 --> 00:01:43.739 stories start. The early 1980s music scene in 00:01:43.739 --> 00:01:46.650 Philadelphia. Billy Graham steps out as the front 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:49.430 man for this punk metal band called Saints in 00:01:49.430 --> 00:01:51.709 Hell. Now, usually high school or garage bands 00:01:51.709 --> 00:01:53.950 are just a footnote in a story like this. But 00:01:53.950 --> 00:01:55.769 looking at the lineup here, this is actually 00:01:55.769 --> 00:01:58.090 really significant. It is hugely significant 00:01:58.090 --> 00:02:00.510 because standing right next to him in that band 00:02:00.510 --> 00:02:03.129 were two guys named Tom Kafer and Eric Brittingham. 00:02:03.209 --> 00:02:05.670 Now, those names might not ring a bell for you 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:08.590 immediately, unless you had a very specific hairstyle 00:02:08.590 --> 00:02:11.610 in 1988 or owned a lot of leather pants. Right, 00:02:11.610 --> 00:02:14.030 but they went on to form Cinderella. Cinderella? 00:02:14.210 --> 00:02:16.430 Yes, we are talking multi -platinum, stadium 00:02:16.430 --> 00:02:19.990 -filling Cinderella, the MTV Darlings. They were 00:02:19.990 --> 00:02:21.930 one of the biggest rock bands in the world for 00:02:21.930 --> 00:02:24.310 a hot minute. So Graham is essentially at ground 00:02:24.310 --> 00:02:27.810 zero for the whole hair metal explosion. He is 00:02:27.810 --> 00:02:30.030 in the band with these guys before they blow 00:02:30.030 --> 00:02:31.949 up. Yeah, before the fame. But he doesn't take 00:02:31.949 --> 00:02:33.800 that route. He doesn't go for the arenas and 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:36.560 the stadiums. The sources say he split off to 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:39.960 do something, well, something a lot weirder. 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.000 Much weirder. While his former bandmates were 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.699 getting famous on television, Graham pivoted 00:02:45.699 --> 00:02:48.639 to the indie circuit. He released a solo project 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:51.960 called Ghost Dance Tribe. This was in 1991. Okay. 00:02:52.340 --> 00:02:54.340 And what's really fascinating here is the liner 00:02:54.340 --> 00:02:57.080 notes on that album. Yeah. Despite staying strictly 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.800 underground, he clearly commanded massive respect 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:01.680 in that scene. I saw that list in the research. 00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:03.580 It's like a who's who of East Coast rock at the 00:03:03.580 --> 00:03:06.439 time. Exactly. You have members of the Kix Tangier, 00:03:06.819 --> 00:03:09.259 Britney Foxx. Right. These were guys who actually 00:03:09.259 --> 00:03:12.139 had major record deals, who were touring the 00:03:12.139 --> 00:03:14.719 country, and yet they all showed up to play on 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:16.900 Billy Graham's indie record. Which tells you 00:03:16.900 --> 00:03:19.379 a lot. It does. It tells you that even if the 00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:21.919 general public didn't know who he was, the musicians 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.819 absolutely did. It seems like he had this intense 00:03:24.819 --> 00:03:27.300 gravitational pull, even if he wasn't the one 00:03:27.300 --> 00:03:29.919 landing on the magazine covers. But while he's 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:32.439 doing the music thing, he's also deeply involved 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:34.840 in something that seems totally unrelated on 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:38.659 paper, political activism. Specifically, Native 00:03:38.659 --> 00:03:41.800 American causes. Right. And this is really crucial 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.580 for understanding his psychology later on. He 00:03:44.580 --> 00:03:46.599 wasn't just a donor. He wasn't just a guy who 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:48.819 signed a petition and moved on. No, he really 00:03:48.819 --> 00:03:52.389 went all in. In November 1999, There was a major 00:03:52.389 --> 00:03:55.250 demonstration at the White House. Graham brought 00:03:55.250 --> 00:03:57.590 his drum group, the Sovereign Nation Singers, 00:03:57.909 --> 00:04:00.169 to perform there, but he took it a major step 00:04:00.169 --> 00:04:02.689 further. The notes here paint a really vivid 00:04:02.689 --> 00:04:05.629 picture of this. It says he spent four days living 00:04:05.629 --> 00:04:08.750 on the ellipse. Yes, in a teepee. A teepee. He 00:04:08.750 --> 00:04:11.110 set up a traditional teepee adjacent to the White 00:04:11.110 --> 00:04:14.770 House lawn, and he fasted for four solid days 00:04:14.770 --> 00:04:17.720 inside it during the protest. That is a level 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.399 of commitment that goes way beyond just showing 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:22.980 up for a march with a sign. I mean, just imagine 00:04:22.980 --> 00:04:25.399 the visual contrast for a second. The White House 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:28.000 in the background and this teepee in the foreground 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.379 with Billy Graham inside, fasting. It really 00:04:31.379 --> 00:04:34.540 is the first major clue we get that Graham blurs 00:04:34.540 --> 00:04:36.720 the line between his own life and his message. 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:40.620 He literally inhabited the protest. Wow. And 00:04:40.620 --> 00:04:42.480 you really need to keep that image in mind, the 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:44.879 Native American heritage and that specific visual. 00:04:45.539 --> 00:04:48.000 because he weaponizes it later when he enters 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.019 the world of professional wrestling. Right, because 00:04:50.019 --> 00:04:52.519 he eventually adopts the moniker half -breed 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:54.740 Billy Graham. Exactly, that wasn't just some 00:04:54.740 --> 00:04:57.079 costume he picked out of a Spirit Halloween catalog. 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.519 It was rooted in this very intense, very real 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:03.199 -life activism. He took something that was sacred 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.699 to him and turned it into a character trait for 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:07.519 the show. Before we get to the wrestling ring 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:08.819 though, we have to talk about the zombies. Of 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:11.680 course, the zombies. Because apparently the natural 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:14.319 bridge between political activism and pro -wrestling 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:16.920 is horror movies. Well, in Billy Graham's world, 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.680 yes, it absolutely is. And this wasn't just a 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:22.040 weekend hobby for him. He built a legitimate 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:25.779 career as a horror historian and an actor. And 00:05:25.779 --> 00:05:27.560 again, just like with the music, he started at 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.620 the very bottom. I saw his first credit in the 00:05:29.620 --> 00:05:33.439 research. It's for the 1986 cult classic Street 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.800 Trash, and his title was Animal Wrangler, which, 00:05:36.939 --> 00:05:38.519 if you know anything about the movie Street Trash 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:41.100 is. Completely terrifying. I haven't seen it, 00:05:41.100 --> 00:05:43.779 but it sounds intense. It's a very grimy, trauma 00:05:43.779 --> 00:05:46.740 -style movie about homeless people melting into 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:49.939 colorful goo after drinking toxic liquor. Oh, 00:05:49.939 --> 00:05:51.879 wow. Yeah. So I don't even want to know what 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:53.740 kind of animals he was wrangling on that set. 00:05:54.860 --> 00:05:59.000 Rats, stray dogs. Whatever it was, he survived 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.579 the experience. But he didn't stay a wrangler. 00:06:01.699 --> 00:06:03.660 He eventually moved in front of the camera. He's 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:05.959 playing zombies in a movie called Shadow, Dead 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.389 Riot. Right. And then there's this character 00:06:08.389 --> 00:06:10.889 in a 2012 film called Revenge is her middle name. 00:06:11.069 --> 00:06:12.790 I actually have the character description here 00:06:12.790 --> 00:06:15.170 from the sources. Yeah. He played a cross -dressing 00:06:15.170 --> 00:06:18.149 necrophiliac gravedigger. He certainly did not 00:06:18.149 --> 00:06:20.430 tight cast himself as the romantic lead, that's 00:06:20.430 --> 00:06:22.910 for sure. Clearly not. But here's the twist. 00:06:23.029 --> 00:06:24.930 And this is what I really love about the story. 00:06:25.529 --> 00:06:28.470 He's not just playing these B -movie grotesques. 00:06:28.629 --> 00:06:31.750 He is actively analyzing them. Yes. He wrote 00:06:31.750 --> 00:06:34.949 a documentary called One for the Fire, the legacy 00:06:34.949 --> 00:06:37.370 of Night of the Living Dead. And we should clarify 00:06:37.370 --> 00:06:39.629 this wasn't just some YouTube video essay or 00:06:39.629 --> 00:06:43.610 a blog post. This was serious scholarship. It 00:06:43.610 --> 00:06:46.089 really was. This documentary was actually included 00:06:46.089 --> 00:06:49.170 on the 40th anniversary DVD release of the film. 00:06:49.339 --> 00:06:52.360 and it won a Rondo Hatton Classic Horror Award. 00:06:52.699 --> 00:06:54.740 For listeners who maybe don't spend their weekends 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:57.620 at horror conventions, can you contextualize 00:06:57.620 --> 00:06:59.680 the Rondo? Is that a big deal in that world? 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:02.740 It's a huge deal. It's basically the Oscars for 00:07:02.740 --> 00:07:05.279 the horror community. It's voted on by both fans 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:08.259 and industry pros. Oh, OK. So winning a Rondo 00:07:08.259 --> 00:07:11.449 for Best Horror DVD Extra. established Graham 00:07:11.449 --> 00:07:14.410 as a serious, recognized historian. It meant 00:07:14.410 --> 00:07:16.589 he wasn't just a fanboy on the outside looking 00:07:16.589 --> 00:07:19.269 in, he was a peer to the people who actually 00:07:19.269 --> 00:07:21.910 made these legendary films. He understood the 00:07:21.910 --> 00:07:24.220 genre from the inside out. So he has this real 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:26.680 intellectual credibility, and he actually directed 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.300 some work involving the wrestling legend Ox Baker 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:31.879 too, right? There is a documentary and a comedy 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.759 short called My S'morgasbord with Ox. Right, 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.079 and that is actually the perfect segue. Because 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:39.420 of the wrestling connection. Exactly. Ox Baker 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:42.620 was a wrestler, famous for his terrifying look, 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:46.839 this big mustache, shaved head, and his infamous 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:50.610 heart punch. Working with Ox likely opened the 00:07:50.610 --> 00:07:53.529 door to Graham's most physically dangerous chapter, 00:07:54.290 --> 00:07:58.629 combat zone wrestling or CZW. Okay, CZW. We really 00:07:58.629 --> 00:08:00.329 need to set the stage here for you because this 00:08:00.329 --> 00:08:02.110 is not the wrestling you see on Monday nights 00:08:02.110 --> 00:08:04.829 on cable television. This is not Hulk Hogan posing 00:08:04.829 --> 00:08:07.050 for the kids. No, not at all. This is ultra -violent 00:08:07.050 --> 00:08:08.810 wrestling. It's often called death match wrestling. 00:08:09.389 --> 00:08:11.449 We're talking barbed wire ropes instead of regular 00:08:11.449 --> 00:08:14.189 ropes, light tubes, panes of glass, fire, thumb 00:08:14.189 --> 00:08:17.550 tacks. It is an extremely niche genre. But the 00:08:17.550 --> 00:08:19.730 fans who follow it are incredibly passionate. 00:08:20.610 --> 00:08:23.629 And Graham enters this world around 2007, not 00:08:23.629 --> 00:08:25.629 as a wrestler, but as a manager. But in this 00:08:25.629 --> 00:08:28.029 specific genre, manager doesn't mean he just 00:08:28.029 --> 00:08:30.589 stands outside the ring in a nice suit, shouting 00:08:30.589 --> 00:08:33.970 instructions. Exactly. He created a stable, a 00:08:33.970 --> 00:08:36.690 faction of wrestlers called Cult Fiction. And 00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:40.190 the core concept of this group was pure nightmare 00:08:40.190 --> 00:08:43.509 fuel. Graham himself described it as the four 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:45.789 horsemen meets the Manson family. Which is a 00:08:45.789 --> 00:08:48.149 very heavy concept to bring to an audience and 00:08:48.149 --> 00:08:49.970 he wasn't just the mouthpiece for the group. 00:08:50.309 --> 00:08:53.149 The sources list some injuries here that oh they 00:08:53.149 --> 00:08:56.110 genuinely make me wince just reading them. Let's 00:08:56.110 --> 00:08:58.549 talk about Cage of Death 10. So the Cage of Death 00:08:58.549 --> 00:09:02.009 is CZW's biggest event of the year. You can think 00:09:02.009 --> 00:09:04.210 of it like their Super Bowl but with significantly 00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:07.509 more blood. Okay. In 2008 Graham gets involved 00:09:07.509 --> 00:09:10.330 in a match with his wrestler. deranged against 00:09:10.330 --> 00:09:12.730 the owner of the company, a guy named DJ Hyde. 00:09:13.409 --> 00:09:15.850 During the match, Hyde pulls out an electric 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:17.850 staple gun. Wait, an electric staple gun? Like 00:09:17.850 --> 00:09:20.309 a tool from Home Depot? Yes. Exactly like that. 00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:22.909 And he uses it on Graham. Where? Repeatedly. 00:09:23.110 --> 00:09:25.809 To the body. Yeah. And to the face. To the face. 00:09:25.850 --> 00:09:27.950 Why? I mean, I know the broader answer is entertainment, 00:09:28.129 --> 00:09:29.990 but getting stapled in the face seems like a 00:09:29.990 --> 00:09:32.230 really high price to pay just for a pop from 00:09:32.230 --> 00:09:34.570 the crowd. It's all about validating the character. 00:09:34.809 --> 00:09:37.870 In that world, if the manager is willing to bleed 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:40.549 and take that kind of punishment, the danger 00:09:40.549 --> 00:09:43.070 feels entirely real to the audience. It sells 00:09:43.070 --> 00:09:45.990 the illusion. Right. It transfers heat to the 00:09:45.990 --> 00:09:49.230 wrestler he's managing. And Graham was an absolute 00:09:49.230 --> 00:09:51.769 master at that kind of sacrifice. He understood 00:09:51.769 --> 00:09:54.610 that if he took the bullet or the staple, in 00:09:54.610 --> 00:09:56.669 this case, the fans would buy into the violence. 00:09:56.830 --> 00:10:00.639 And the crazy part is he kept coming back. Two 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.580 years later at cage of death 12. He's up on top 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:05.940 of the cage Which is essentially a scaffold high 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:08.460 above the ring and he gets thrown off by a wrestler 00:10:08.460 --> 00:10:10.899 named Devin Moore And we should be clear that 00:10:10.899 --> 00:10:14.080 was not a safe landing into a foam pit or a crash 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:16.759 pad. No. He hit the canvas hard. He broke five 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:19.580 bones in his right foot and leg. That is insane 00:10:19.580 --> 00:10:22.159 commitment to the bit. But here is the key insight 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:23.720 from the research that I think separates him 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:25.519 from just being a glorified stuntman. He was 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.919 actually winning awards for his talking. To me, 00:10:28.139 --> 00:10:30.120 that's the most impressive part of his wrestling 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:34.200 run. In the CZW year end fan polls, Billy Graham 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:37.500 won best mic work for three years in a row, 2007, 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:40.620 2008 and 2009. That's pretty rare, isn't it, 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:43.600 for a non -wrestler to win best mic work? It 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:47.019 is extremely rare. Usually that award goes to 00:10:47.019 --> 00:10:49.620 the top star, the charismatic champion, the guy 00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:52.019 who is actively selling the tickets to the main 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:54.659 event. Right. So for a manager to win it three 00:10:54.659 --> 00:10:57.820 consecutive times means he was undeniably the 00:10:57.820 --> 00:11:00.879 most captivating person in the building. He could 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.259 quite literally talk people into paying the admission 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:06.639 price just to see him get beat up. He really 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.700 knew how to work a narrative. There's this story 00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:12.519 in the sources about the hooded figure at Cage 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:14.919 of Death 11. Walk us through that, because that 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.220 sounds like straight up theater. It was master 00:11:17.220 --> 00:11:20.100 class misdirection. Leading up to the event, 00:11:20.379 --> 00:11:23.059 Graham had posted online everywhere that he was 00:11:23.059 --> 00:11:24.919 in New York for an autograph signing. Billing 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.220 an alibi. Exactly. He apologized to the fans, 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.179 said, sorry, I can't be at Cage of Death this 00:11:29.179 --> 00:11:31.360 year. I have this prior commitment. He completely 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.740 sold it. So absolutely nobody expects him to 00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:36.779 show up. Zero expectation. Then during a match, 00:11:36.990 --> 00:11:39.269 Two hooded figures jumped the guardrail and hit 00:11:39.269 --> 00:11:42.190 the ring. One of them unmasks, and it's J .C. 00:11:42.389 --> 00:11:44.649 Bayley. Now, Bayley was a wrestler who'd been 00:11:44.649 --> 00:11:47.210 gone for two years due to some legal issues. 00:11:47.769 --> 00:11:50.389 So that alone was a massive surprise. But then 00:11:50.389 --> 00:11:53.990 the other figure unmasks. And it's Billy Graham. 00:11:54.289 --> 00:11:57.269 And the crowd just goes wild. Total pandemonium. 00:11:57.269 --> 00:11:59.769 They were completely fooled. And immediately 00:11:59.769 --> 00:12:02.830 after unmasking, he orders Bailey to drop an 00:12:02.830 --> 00:12:05.789 opponent head first onto solid cinder blocks. 00:12:06.049 --> 00:12:09.029 It's storytelling through sheer brutality. It's 00:12:09.029 --> 00:12:11.690 like Shakespeare with cinder blocks. But his 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:14.169 influence wasn't just contained inside the ring. 00:12:14.269 --> 00:12:16.970 He actually managed to shut down a rival promotion 00:12:16.970 --> 00:12:19.450 using nothing but his words, didn't he? I'm talking 00:12:19.450 --> 00:12:21.690 about the Ian Rottenfjord. Yes. And this is where 00:12:21.690 --> 00:12:25.019 kayfabe which is the wrestling term for maintaining 00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:27.539 the illusion that everything is real breaks down 00:12:27.539 --> 00:12:30.100 completely. Right. The real world bleed. He and 00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:32.740 Rotten ran a promotion called IWA Mid -South. 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.139 He and Graham had a falling out behind the scenes. 00:12:35.460 --> 00:12:38.639 And in 2008, Graham publicly alleged that Rotten 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.700 had physically threatened him. Now, usually in 00:12:40.700 --> 00:12:42.360 the wrestling business, this leads to a match. 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:44.320 They book a fight, they sell tickets to it, and 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:45.940 they settle it in the ring while making money. 00:12:46.220 --> 00:12:48.379 Right. That's the standard playbook. Yeah. But 00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:51.039 Graham didn't want a pro wrestling match. And 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.159 instead of just calling the police or ignoring 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:55.620 it, Graham took it to the internet. He went on 00:12:55.620 --> 00:12:58.639 the offensive. He went on podcasts. He hit the 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:02.039 wrestling message boards. And he publicly challenged 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:05.500 Ian Rotten to a legit kickboxing match for charity. 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.059 A shoot fight. No scripts. No predetermined winner. 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.559 Exactly. He completely called Rotten's bluff 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.899 in front of everyone. He basically said, if you 00:13:14.899 --> 00:13:17.019 want to fight me, let's do it for real and let's 00:13:17.019 --> 00:13:19.019 give all the ticket money to charity. And what 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:21.370 happened? Rotten vaulted. He just didn't accept 00:13:21.370 --> 00:13:24.370 the challenge. The bad publicity from Graham's 00:13:24.370 --> 00:13:26.190 crusade, because Graham was out there aggressively 00:13:26.190 --> 00:13:28.129 exposing the business practices and the alleged 00:13:28.129 --> 00:13:31.289 threats, was so intense that Rotten actually 00:13:31.289 --> 00:13:33.669 announced he was closing his promotion. Wow. 00:13:33.929 --> 00:13:35.710 It stayed totally dark for almost two years. 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.639 That really speaks to the sheer power of Billy 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:40.899 Graham's voice in that specific community. He 00:13:40.899 --> 00:13:43.340 literally talked a wrestling promotion out of 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:45.919 business. Oh, and we should quickly mention he 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.620 had massive success elsewhere, too, managing 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:50.919 guys like brain damage and deranged to back to 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.820 back tournament wins in IWA, Mid -South and Deep 00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:56.289 South, which is. very unique distinction for 00:13:56.289 --> 00:13:59.250 a manager in indie wrestling. It showed he delivered 00:13:59.250 --> 00:14:02.629 results wherever he went. Definitely. It shows 00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:04.870 that his character wasn't just a passive act. 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:07.610 He carried that same intense energy into real 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:10.289 world conflicts and business dealings. But that 00:14:10.289 --> 00:14:12.330 actually brings us to the elephant in the room. 00:14:12.669 --> 00:14:14.590 You mentioned earlier that the name of his stable 00:14:14.590 --> 00:14:17.110 was Cult Fiction and he compared it to the Manson 00:14:17.110 --> 00:14:20.049 family. Yes. And this is where the story takes 00:14:20.049 --> 00:14:22.590 its sharpest and honestly most difficult turn. 00:14:22.830 --> 00:14:25.049 Right. Because for Billy Graham, the Charles 00:14:25.049 --> 00:14:27.409 Manson connection wasn't just a spooky wrestling 00:14:27.409 --> 00:14:29.649 gimmick. This is the part of our deep dive where 00:14:29.649 --> 00:14:31.570 things get very complicated and we need to look 00:14:31.570 --> 00:14:33.789 at exactly what the sources tell us about his 00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:36.549 beliefs. It is undeniably the most controversial 00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:39.360 aspect of his life. You see, Graham didn't just 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.820 use Manson as a scary reference point to get 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:44.080 a negative reaction from the crowd. He was a 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.840 very vocal, very real supporter. The sources 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:49.159 state that he publicly maintained that Charles 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:52.000 Manson was entirely innocent of the actual murders 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.899 at the Cielo Drive and Waverly Drive homes. Correct. 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:58.840 That is a very specific, very fringe belief system. 00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:02.240 He fully bought into the idea that the helter 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.799 -skelter motive, the race war theory, was entirely 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.679 a prosecution construct. He argued that the prosecution 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:10.980 essentially invented that narrative to cover 00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:13.200 up other criminal activities happening in Los 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.639 Angeles at the time. Things like drug burns and 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.340 copycat crimes. Yes. He fundamentally believed 00:15:18.340 --> 00:15:20.700 Manson was framed as a patsy for those specific 00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:23.240 murders. And he wasn't just posting these theories 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:26.259 anonymously on forums. He was intimately involved 00:15:26.259 --> 00:15:29.059 with the actual Manson circle in real life. Right. 00:15:29.139 --> 00:15:31.980 The research mentions a documentary. Yes. A film 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:35.120 called Manson's Bloodlines. It was a documentary 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.759 focused on Manson's grandson, Jason Freeman. 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.500 Graham worked on the production of that film. 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:43.460 So he was deeply inside that circle, talking 00:15:43.460 --> 00:15:45.960 to the family members and actively advocating 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:48.000 for them. And this wasn't just a passing phase 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.740 for him. This culminated quite recently in 2017 00:15:50.740 --> 00:15:53.500 and 2018. Right. When Charles Manson died, Graham 00:15:53.500 --> 00:15:57.159 was there in March 2018 at the actual funeral 00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.379 in California. And he wasn't just sitting quietly 00:15:59.379 --> 00:16:02.070 in the back row. No. According to the records, 00:16:02.509 --> 00:16:05.330 Billy Graham stood up and delivered a eulogy, 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:08.409 and then he served as a pallbearer. I really 00:16:08.409 --> 00:16:10.110 just want to pause on that image for a second 00:16:10.110 --> 00:16:12.830 so you can fully visualize this. You have a guy 00:16:12.830 --> 00:16:15.649 who spent years playing this violent cult leader 00:16:15.649 --> 00:16:18.009 character in a wrestling ring, getting stapled, 00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:20.049 getting thrown off steel cages, cutting these 00:16:20.049 --> 00:16:22.289 intense promos about violence to entertain paying 00:16:22.289 --> 00:16:25.710 fans, and now he is physically carrying the casket 00:16:25.710 --> 00:16:27.809 of the man he modeled that entire character after. 00:16:28.059 --> 00:16:30.519 It creates this feedback loop that is almost 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:32.820 impossible to untangle. The performance art, 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.960 the half -breed character in CZW, clearly fed 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.419 off the Manson mythos. But then the real person, 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.399 Billy Graham, fully inserts himself into the 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.539 actual real -life history of the Manson family. 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:47.360 It really forces you to ask the question, was 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:49.940 the wrestling character just an act or was it 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:52.700 a rehearsal for his real life? That really is 00:16:52.700 --> 00:16:54.460 the central question of his whole biography. 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:56.580 In wrestling, there's an old saying that the 00:16:56.580 --> 00:16:58.360 best characters are just the real person with 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:00.700 the volume turned up to 11. Right. But Billy 00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:02.600 Graham seemed to live his entire life at volume 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.579 11 constantly. Whether he was fasting in that 00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.460 teepee in Washington, or deeply analyzing zombie 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:11.400 movies for a DVD extra, or publicly defending 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:13.940 Charles Manson, he was fully committed to his 00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:15.519 own reality, whatever that happened to be at 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:17.779 the moment. It's a level of underground fame 00:17:17.779 --> 00:17:20.220 that I honestly don't think exists much anymore. 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.559 I completely agree. Graham represents a very 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:27.359 specific, almost bygone era of American subculture. 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.440 If you were the Philadelphia punk scene in the 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.779 80s, he was a total legend. If you were deep 00:17:32.779 --> 00:17:35.880 into horror fandom in the 2000s, he was a respected 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.720 scholar. If you liked ultra violent death match 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:41.579 wrestling, he was an absolute icon. But if you 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:43.579 walked right past him in a grocery store, you 00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:45.859 would have absolutely no idea who he was. None. 00:17:46.170 --> 00:17:49.289 He was an invisible celebrity. He proved that 00:17:49.289 --> 00:17:51.670 you can live a life of incredibly high drama 00:17:51.670 --> 00:17:54.269 and deep historical significance within these 00:17:54.269 --> 00:17:57.089 niches without ever once touching the mainstream 00:17:57.089 --> 00:17:59.670 spotlight. He was an underground Renaissance 00:17:59.670 --> 00:18:01.819 man in the truest sense of the word. It really 00:18:01.819 --> 00:18:04.079 challenges your whole idea of what a public figure 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.220 actually is. You can be a hero or a terrifying 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:09.640 villain to thousands of specific people and remain 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.480 a total ghost to everyone else on the planet. 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.000 And it seems like he navigated those vastly different 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.819 worlds completely seamlessly. And perhaps that's 00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:19.839 exactly how he wanted it to be. Operating strictly 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:22.619 on the fringes allows for a certain kind of freedom 00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:24.559 you just don't get when you're in the mainstream 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:27.619 spotlight. You can be the zombie actor, the political 00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:30.119 activist, and the wrestling manager all at once. 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.299 And the pallbearer. And the pallbearer. So as 00:18:32.299 --> 00:18:34.579 we wrap this up, what is the ultimate takeaway 00:18:34.579 --> 00:18:38.039 here? We've gone from Cinderella to Charles Manson. 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:40.359 It's a lot of ground to process. I think the 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:42.160 main takeaway is really about the sheer power 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.299 of conviction. You might find his beliefs regarding 00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:48.500 Manson completely abhorrent. You might find deathmatch 00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:51.369 wrestling utterly repulsive. Sure. But... You 00:18:51.369 --> 00:18:53.630 cannot deny that Billy Graham lived his life 00:18:53.630 --> 00:18:56.750 completely without compromise. He built a world 00:18:56.750 --> 00:18:59.190 where he can be the meticulous historian, the 00:18:59.190 --> 00:19:01.890 violent villain, the dedicated activist, and 00:19:01.890 --> 00:19:04.329 the loyal friend all at the exact same time. 00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.670 He absolutely refused to fit into any single, 00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:10.690 easily defined box. It challenges the way we 00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:12.930 look at characters in entertainment, too. We 00:19:12.930 --> 00:19:15.029 love the wrestling villain because we know it's 00:19:15.029 --> 00:19:17.970 fake. It's a safe way to experience danger. But 00:19:17.970 --> 00:19:21.349 when the villain steps off the screen, and actually 00:19:21.349 --> 00:19:24.529 befriends the real life monster, it completely 00:19:24.529 --> 00:19:27.470 changes how we view the performance. It makes 00:19:27.470 --> 00:19:30.190 the performance feel dangerous again. It removes 00:19:30.190 --> 00:19:33.190 that safety net of fiction. And honestly, maybe 00:19:33.190 --> 00:19:35.490 that's exactly what true performance art is supposed 00:19:35.490 --> 00:19:38.329 to do. Well, that was certainly a trip into the 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:40.490 deep end today. I don't think I'll ever look 00:19:40.490 --> 00:19:44.690 at a wrestling manager or a horror movie extra, 00:19:44.750 --> 00:19:46.890 for that matter, quite the same way ever again. 00:19:47.049 --> 00:19:49.250 It definitely adds a massive layer of mystery 00:19:49.250 --> 00:19:52.109 to things. You really never know who that guy 00:19:52.109 --> 00:19:54.250 standing in the background truly is. Thanks for 00:19:54.250 --> 00:19:55.809 joining us for this deep dive. We want to leave 00:19:55.809 --> 00:19:57.930 you with something to think about. Where is the 00:19:57.930 --> 00:20:00.490 line between art and reality for you? When a 00:20:00.490 --> 00:20:03.029 performer's extreme art perfectly mirrors their 00:20:03.029 --> 00:20:05.670 extreme real -life beliefs, does the performance 00:20:05.670 --> 00:20:08.170 stop being an act entirely? Let us know what 00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:10.269 you think. We'll catch you next time. Stay curious.