WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.419 Okay, let's unpack this. You know that specific, 00:00:03.859 --> 00:00:06.559 creeping anxiety you get when a band you've loved 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:10.080 for a decade announces a hiatus? Oh, it is the 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.320 worst feeling. It really is. Like, it's a very 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:14.779 polite word, hiatus, but for a fan, it feels 00:00:14.779 --> 00:00:17.100 exactly like a breakup. It does, yeah. And then 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.239 comes the waiting game. You're watching the individual 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:21.300 members kind of holding your breath, wondering 00:00:21.300 --> 00:00:25.120 who is going to be the breakout star, and maybe 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.320 more terrifyingly, who is going to struggle to 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.039 find their footing. I mean, it is the... single 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:32.960 most high stakes moment in the pop music ecosystem. 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:35.539 We call it the transition phase, but really it's 00:00:35.539 --> 00:00:38.740 a trial by fire. History is just absolutely littered 00:00:38.740 --> 00:00:42.380 with members of massive stadium filling groups 00:00:42.380 --> 00:00:45.020 who stepped out solo and just they couldn't replicate 00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:48.020 the magic. Exactly. It's the Justin Timberlake 00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:52.070 leaving NSYNC archetype. Or Beyonce leaving Destiny's 00:00:52.070 --> 00:00:54.130 Child. You go from having three or four people 00:00:54.130 --> 00:00:56.850 to lean on to suddenly being the only person 00:00:56.850 --> 00:00:59.250 standing under that spotlight. Which is an incredible 00:00:59.250 --> 00:01:02.270 amount of pressure. Huge pressure. And today 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:04.849 for our deep dive, we are getting into one of 00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:07.870 those massive pop culture moments. We are talking 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:10.650 about the transition from girl group superstardom 00:01:10.650 --> 00:01:14.120 to the solo career. Specifically, we are looking 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.120 at Perry, formerly of Little Mix, and her debut 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:20.079 solo single, Forget About Us, which dropped back 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:24.040 on April 12, 2024. And just to set the stage 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:26.519 here for you listening, we have a really interesting 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:29.340 stack of sources for this deep dive. We aren't 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:31.620 just reacting to a song. No, we've got a lot 00:01:31.620 --> 00:01:33.299 of ground to cover. We really do. We're looking 00:01:33.299 --> 00:01:35.060 at everything from the initial production credits 00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:38.060 and the hard chart data to critical reviews from 00:01:38.060 --> 00:01:41.019 major publications, places like Billboard, NME, 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.379 and the Shields Gazette. We've got the numbers, 00:01:43.780 --> 00:01:46.379 we've got the, well, sorry, the speculation, 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.680 and we've got the music theory. But our mission 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:51.659 today isn't just to review a pop song. If you 00:01:51.659 --> 00:01:53.980 really look at the materials we have, this is 00:01:53.980 --> 00:01:56.219 a case study in rebranding. Definitely. It's 00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:58.939 all about artistic independence. How does an 00:01:58.939 --> 00:02:01.280 artist who has spent years as one -fourth of 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:04.340 a harmonizing unit establish a completely singular 00:02:04.340 --> 00:02:07.140 identity? Right. How do you tell the world, this 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:10.330 is who I am now? without alienating the millions 00:02:10.330 --> 00:02:12.530 of people who loved who you were. Exactly the 00:02:12.530 --> 00:02:14.490 challenge. And let me tell you, there are some 00:02:14.490 --> 00:02:16.870 surprising connections in here. When I was prepping 00:02:16.870 --> 00:02:18.830 for this and looking at the songwriting credits, 00:02:19.129 --> 00:02:23.050 my jaw actually dropped. It is definitively not 00:02:23.050 --> 00:02:26.270 the team you might expect for a standard pop 00:02:26.270 --> 00:02:28.909 debut. It is a fascinating list. It tells you 00:02:28.909 --> 00:02:31.740 a lot about the strategy behind the sound. So 00:02:31.740 --> 00:02:33.900 let's get right into the origin story of Forget 00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:37.520 About Us. Usually, the narrative we're sold is 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:39.719 the artists locking themselves away in a cabin 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:42.439 with an acoustic guitar to, you know, find themselves. 00:02:42.580 --> 00:02:45.120 The classic indie pop myth. Right, the myth. 00:02:45.699 --> 00:02:48.639 But this track started with a pretty famous voice 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:51.280 on the other end of the line. It did. The spark 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.680 for this track actually came from Ed Sheeran. 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:56.300 Ed Sheeran, I mean, I feel like he's everywhere, 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:59.520 but it's still a massive cosign for a debut solo 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.740 single. It absolutely is, but I think we need 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:04.159 to pause and analyze that for a second. Because 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:06.460 while getting a song from Ed Sheeran is a gift, 00:03:06.979 --> 00:03:09.979 it's also a bit of a Trojan horse. How so? Like, 00:03:09.979 --> 00:03:12.699 what makes it a trick? Well, Sheeran has such 00:03:12.699 --> 00:03:15.840 distinct melodic fingerprint. We call it the 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.259 Sheeranification of Pop. Oh, I like that term. 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:20.719 Right. His demos usually sound very much like 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:24.060 him. the cadence, the rhythm, that specific acoustic 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:26.139 strumming pattern. Yeah, you can hear it immediately. 00:03:26.419 --> 00:03:30.099 Exactly. So if you are a new solo artist trying 00:03:30.099 --> 00:03:33.520 to define your unique sound, the easiest trap 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:37.400 to fall into is just releasing basically Ed Sheeran 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:39.680 featuring you. That makes total sense. You don't 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.419 want to sound like a cover artist on your own 00:03:41.419 --> 00:03:43.960 debut single. You really don't. Yeah. And according 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:46.400 to an interview Perry did with NME, that was 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:49.219 the exact crossroads she faced. Sheeran sent 00:03:49.219 --> 00:03:52.370 her a demo version of the track. Now, the commercially 00:03:52.370 --> 00:03:55.069 safe route is to just learn the vocals, record 00:03:55.069 --> 00:03:57.110 it, and ride the shear and waves straight to 00:03:57.110 --> 00:03:59.210 the top of the charts. But she didn't do that. 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:01.090 And this is the part of the story I really love. 00:04:01.530 --> 00:04:03.930 She took that demo to her home studio in London, 00:04:04.229 --> 00:04:06.509 and she didn't just record it. She completely 00:04:06.509 --> 00:04:08.669 reworked it. That is the key distinction here. 00:04:08.969 --> 00:04:10.949 She specifically mentioned that she changed the 00:04:10.949 --> 00:04:13.569 concept and the lyrics. She wanted to fit her 00:04:13.569 --> 00:04:16.449 specific perspective on past relationships. She 00:04:16.449 --> 00:04:19.209 told NME it was about making the song, quote, 00:04:19.769 --> 00:04:23.300 the truth. The truth. That is such a heavy phrase 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:26.279 for a breezy pop song. It signals to the listener 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:28.680 right away, I'm not just singing someone else's 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.720 words anymore. Precisely. In a group, you are 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.560 often singing a consensus. You're singing a sentiment 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:36.620 that everyone in the room agrees on. Right, it's 00:04:36.620 --> 00:04:39.680 a collective voice. But solo, you have to sing 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:43.680 your specific reality. If she had just sung Sharon's 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.279 lyrics exactly as they were, she would just be 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:49.569 a vocalist. by rewriting it to fit her actual 00:04:49.569 --> 00:04:52.110 life, she becomes an artist. So she's got the 00:04:52.110 --> 00:04:54.089 skeleton of the song from Sheeran and she's putting 00:04:54.089 --> 00:04:56.569 her own flesh and blood on it in London. But 00:04:56.569 --> 00:04:58.050 then we really have to talk about the rest of 00:04:58.050 --> 00:05:00.050 the team because while Ed Sheeran is the headline 00:05:00.050 --> 00:05:02.709 name, if you look at the credits, there is a 00:05:02.709 --> 00:05:05.269 name that might legitimately shock you. David 00:05:05.269 --> 00:05:07.750 Hodges. Yes. This is where the production credits 00:05:07.750 --> 00:05:09.490 get really interesting. Okay, for the listener 00:05:09.490 --> 00:05:11.550 who might not check the liner notes of every 00:05:11.550 --> 00:05:14.589 single album, who is David Hodges? He is formally 00:05:14.589 --> 00:05:17.629 of the rock band Evanescence. Evanescence. Like, 00:05:17.889 --> 00:05:21.029 bring me to life, goth rock, early 2000s, Evanescence. 00:05:21.209 --> 00:05:24.639 The very same. That is wild to me. You have Perry 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.379 from Little Mix, Ed Sheeran the acoustic pop 00:05:27.379 --> 00:05:30.920 king, and a guy from a goth rock band. It sounds 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.959 like a complete mishmash. It sounds like a train 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:35.699 wreck on paper, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. But if 00:05:35.699 --> 00:05:38.000 you actually analyze the musical structure of 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.699 it, it makes perfect sense. Think about Evanescence 00:05:40.699 --> 00:05:42.939 songs. Yes, they were heavy. Yes, they had guitars. 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.740 But they were built on massive, soaring, anthemic 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:49.079 melodies. Oh, that's true. Big choruses. Big 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:51.500 choruses that you can literally scream in a stadium. 00:05:51.579 --> 00:05:53.839 I see. It's not about the electric guitars at 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:55.399 all, it's about the architecture of the song 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:58.600 itself. Exactly. David Hodges has become a very 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:01.160 prolific songwriter in the pop space because 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:04.259 he understands how to build that wall of sound 00:06:04.259 --> 00:06:06.839 crescendo. He brings a certain structural drama 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.980 that pure pop producers sometimes miss. So you 00:06:09.980 --> 00:06:13.100 combine Sheeran's rhythmic hookiness with Hodges's 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:15.199 stadium rock structure. Plus you have Stephen 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:17.079 Solomon and Andrew Goldstein on production as 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.540 well. Right. What did the critics actually make 00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:21.259 of the final sound? Because when I listened to 00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:24.180 it, I certainly didn't hear goth rock. No, absolutely 00:06:24.180 --> 00:06:27.699 not. The consensus from the sources is that this 00:06:27.699 --> 00:06:30.740 is a pop ballad, but with a very specific twist. 00:06:31.620 --> 00:06:33.740 Multiple sources, including Billboard and the 00:06:33.740 --> 00:06:36.839 Shields Gazette, pointed out distinct country 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.420 influences. Country, really? I mean, she's from 00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:41.279 South Shields, not Nashville. It's fascinating, 00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:43.720 right? But they aren't talking about banjos and 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:46.199 fiddles here. They are talking about country 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.600 sensibilities. OK, what does that mean in this 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:50.680 context? Well, Billboard actually described it 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:52.839 as having Katy Perry and Kelly Clarkson vibes. 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.079 Oh. I can totally hear the Kelly Clarks in comparison. 00:06:56.339 --> 00:06:59.459 That big belted out energy. Like, Since You've 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:02.540 Been Gone isn't country, but it has that driving 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:05.720 organic band in a room feel. Exactly. It's about 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.980 the instrumentation feeling grounded and real. 00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:10.660 NME used a phrase I quite like. They called it 00:07:10.660 --> 00:07:13.939 a sun dappled stomper. Sun dappled stomper. That 00:07:13.939 --> 00:07:16.540 is poetry right there. It sounds like the perfect 00:07:16.540 --> 00:07:18.759 description for a song release in April, right 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:20.500 as everyone is getting ready for summer. That 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:23.220 was the exact vibe they were going for. Attitude 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:25.259 magazine and the Shields Gazette both framed 00:07:25.259 --> 00:07:27.879 it as a song of the summer contender. It's polished. 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.319 It's bright. It feels like driving with the top 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:33.439 down. Yeah. But what really anchors it, and this 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.160 is something almost every single review mentioned, 00:07:36.740 --> 00:07:40.100 is the vocal performance. Now we know Perry can 00:07:40.100 --> 00:07:42.240 sing. I mean, she was in Little Mix. You don't 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.019 survive a decade in that group without serious 00:07:45.019 --> 00:07:48.639 pipes. But. Was there anything specific the critics 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:51.560 noted about this vocal performance? Holly Alton 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.319 from the Shields Gazette wrote a really detailed 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:56.120 breakdown of the vocals. She specifically noted 00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:58.740 Perry's range. She talked about how Perry navigates 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:00.939 the lower notes and the verses before finishing 00:08:00.939 --> 00:08:03.449 with that massive high note. Can we talk about 00:08:03.449 --> 00:08:04.970 those low notes for a second? Because I feel 00:08:04.970 --> 00:08:07.050 like in pop music, everyone obsesses over the 00:08:07.050 --> 00:08:09.470 high notes, the money notes, you know? Oh, always. 00:08:09.629 --> 00:08:12.089 But staying in that lower register without sounding 00:08:12.089 --> 00:08:14.410 muddy or losing your breath is actually really, 00:08:14.410 --> 00:08:17.949 really hard. It is incredibly difficult. It requires 00:08:17.949 --> 00:08:20.189 a lot of breath control and vocal resonance. 00:08:20.470 --> 00:08:22.149 If you don't have the technique, you just disappear 00:08:22.149 --> 00:08:25.009 into the production mix. But Perry stays very 00:08:25.009 --> 00:08:28.029 present and very rich in those low verses. It 00:08:28.029 --> 00:08:30.230 pulls you in. It does. It creates a sense of 00:08:30.230 --> 00:08:32.090 intimacy, like she's talking directly to you. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.720 And then, of course, she hits you with the high 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:35.840 note at the end just to remind you exactly who 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.600 she is. Aliser James at Attitude called it a 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.860 powerhouse vocal. And that is so important for 00:08:42.860 --> 00:08:45.779 a debut single. It's basically a three -minute 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:48.360 resume sent out to the world. It says, hello, 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.159 I'm here. And yes, I can still out sing almost 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:54.019 anyone on the radio. So we have the sound. It's 00:08:54.019 --> 00:08:55.799 polished. It's pop. It's got a little bit of 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:58.620 country sensibility and big vocals. But let's 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:00.860 go back to that idea of the truth in the lyrics. 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:03.740 Because when a massive pop star releases a song 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:06.259 called Forget About Us, the Internet does what 00:09:06.259 --> 00:09:08.759 the Internet does. The rumor mill fires up. The 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.500 rumor mill went into absolute overdrive. Everyone 00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:13.059 was trying to figure out who the song was about. 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.860 It is inevitable. The sources mentioned that 00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:18.059 fans and critics immediately started speculating 00:09:18.059 --> 00:09:20.539 that the lyrics might refer to her ex -fiance, 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:23.059 Zayn Malik. I mean, it's the low hanging fruit 00:09:23.059 --> 00:09:25.559 of pop culture speculation, right? High profile 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:28.919 breakup, super famous ex. It is. But I think 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.720 focusing solely on the gossip misses the entire 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:34.539 point of the songwriting. If you actually look 00:09:34.539 --> 00:09:37.480 at the lyrical analysis provided in the sources, 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:39.879 particularly from Attitude, they view it very 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:42.120 differently. How so? They describe the lyrics 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:45.399 not as gossip fodder, but as a mature take on 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:47.659 relationships. That's an interesting distinction. 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:50.639 Because a breakup song usually implies anger 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.039 or intense sadness. You know, the typical I Hate 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:57.049 You anthem. But Forget About Us feels different. 00:09:57.169 --> 00:09:59.730 It does. It isn't a burn book. It's a look back 00:09:59.730 --> 00:10:03.230 at past relationships and friendships. It acknowledges 00:10:03.230 --> 00:10:05.509 that things didn't work out, but it doesn't seem 00:10:05.509 --> 00:10:07.590 to dwell in bitterness at all. Right. It fits 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:09.629 that country sensibility we talked about earlier. 00:10:09.970 --> 00:10:12.129 It's storytelling, it's looking back, but ultimately 00:10:12.129 --> 00:10:14.129 moving forward. It's almost like she's saying, 00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:16.870 I hope you're doing well, but we are definitively 00:10:16.870 --> 00:10:19.370 done. Which is actually a much more grown up 00:10:19.370 --> 00:10:22.970 sentiment than, say, I keyed your car. And Perry... 00:10:22.970 --> 00:10:25.809 really leaned into that narrative for the rollout. 00:10:25.970 --> 00:10:27.590 Do you remember the caption she used when she 00:10:27.590 --> 00:10:30.250 first teased the song on social media? Yeah, 00:10:30.330 --> 00:10:33.309 it was. Here's the truth of it. That is brilliant 00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:36.250 marketing psychology. Really? Why is that? Because 00:10:36.250 --> 00:10:39.309 it signals intimacy. It breaks the fourth wall. 00:10:39.990 --> 00:10:42.730 When you are in a girl group, the narrative is 00:10:42.730 --> 00:10:45.289 almost always shared. It's our story. Right, 00:10:45.289 --> 00:10:48.090 the collective. When you go solo, you have to 00:10:48.090 --> 00:10:50.289 convince the audience that they are finally meeting 00:10:50.289 --> 00:10:53.830 the real you by saying, Here's the truth. She's 00:10:53.830 --> 00:10:56.470 inviting the listener into her confidence. She's 00:10:56.470 --> 00:10:58.450 building a parasocial bond immediately. Like 00:10:58.450 --> 00:11:00.669 she's whispering a secret to you. OK, the other 00:11:00.669 --> 00:11:02.269 girls aren't here now. Let me tell you what really 00:11:02.269 --> 00:11:05.210 happened. Exactly. It creates a personal narrative, 00:11:05.429 --> 00:11:07.529 which is absolutely crucial when you are trying 00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:10.529 to separate yourself from a massive group identity. 00:11:10.909 --> 00:11:13.870 So she teases the truth. She drops the single. 00:11:14.409 --> 00:11:16.789 Now let's talk about the visuals and the rollout. 00:11:16.830 --> 00:11:19.210 Because she did not do this by halves. She went 00:11:19.210 --> 00:11:21.669 big. She certainly did. Let's talk about the 00:11:21.669 --> 00:11:23.950 music video. Filmed in Cape Town, South Africa. 00:11:24.169 --> 00:11:27.809 Which provides just a stunning, expansive backdrop. 00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:30.370 Again, fitting that sun -dappled vibe we mentioned. 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:32.669 Yeah, it wasn't filmed on some dark soundstage 00:11:32.669 --> 00:11:35.370 in Burbank. Right. It feels organic and huge. 00:11:35.570 --> 00:11:38.710 And it was directed by Jake Nava. Who is a massive 00:11:38.710 --> 00:11:41.690 name in British music videos. He is royalty. 00:11:41.970 --> 00:11:45.029 He's worked with Beyonce, Adele. Hiring him is 00:11:45.029 --> 00:11:46.750 a statement of intent. It tells the industry, 00:11:47.129 --> 00:11:49.610 I am not an indie artist experimenting. I'm a 00:11:49.610 --> 00:11:51.710 main pop girl. And we should mention she teased 00:11:51.710 --> 00:11:54.110 it on the Jonathan Ross show on April 13th, right 00:11:54.110 --> 00:11:56.870 before the full release on April 19th. Yes. And 00:11:56.870 --> 00:11:58.870 the rollout wasn't just digital. She was physically 00:11:58.870 --> 00:12:01.590 out there. The sources detail a pretty extensive 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:03.970 promotional tour. She was doing listening parties 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.149 across London for fans and critics. Those listening 00:12:07.149 --> 00:12:10.049 parties are so incredibly smart. Think about 00:12:10.049 --> 00:12:12.590 it. You invite your hardcore fans into a room. 00:12:13.070 --> 00:12:15.070 You play them the song before anyone else in 00:12:15.070 --> 00:12:17.710 the world hears it. You make them feel like insiders. 00:12:17.870 --> 00:12:20.110 And then they go online and defend the song with 00:12:20.110 --> 00:12:22.190 their lives because they feel like they're literally 00:12:22.190 --> 00:12:25.090 part of the team. Exactly. It mobilizes the base. 00:12:25.549 --> 00:12:27.889 And she wasn't just in the UK. She was doing 00:12:27.889 --> 00:12:31.110 radio visits in France, the UK, and Amsterdam. 00:12:31.259 --> 00:12:34.740 Oh, wow. Amsterdam, too. Yes. It shows a real 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:37.360 desire to compete on an international level right 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:39.720 out of the gate. She wasn't just resting on her 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.019 UK fame. And we can't forget the live performances. 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:44.240 And this is honestly where my anxiety would have 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.019 picked in. She hit the festival circuit. Well, 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:48.019 the ball circuit, I should say. Yes. Capital 00:12:48.019 --> 00:12:52.240 FM's summertime ball in June 2024 and then the 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:55.519 Jingle Bell ball in December 2024. These are 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:58.559 huge stadium events. We're talking Wembley Stadium. 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:02.879 80 ,000 people. Talk about a trial by fire. You've 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:05.159 spent a decade with three other girls on stage 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:07.720 to banter with, to harmonize with. If you forget 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.440 a lyric, someone else is singing. Suddenly, you 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.299 are on that stage completely alone. It's the 00:13:13.299 --> 00:13:15.700 ultimate test of stage presence. You have to 00:13:15.700 --> 00:13:17.659 fill that space physically and sonically all 00:13:17.659 --> 00:13:20.620 by yourself. The sources confirm she played those 00:13:20.620 --> 00:13:23.059 gigs, which shows she was ready to stand on her 00:13:23.059 --> 00:13:26.019 own two feet immediately. So she did the work. 00:13:26.259 --> 00:13:29.299 She had the song, the big video, the international 00:13:29.299 --> 00:13:33.000 promo tour, the stadium shows. The big question 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.960 is, did it actually work? Let's look at the scoreboard. 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:37.919 This is where we get to see the actual result 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.539 of that rebranding. The song debuted at number 00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:44.019 10 on the UK singles chart. Top 10 debut. Now 00:13:44.019 --> 00:13:46.830 I can hear a cynical listener saying, Only number 00:13:46.830 --> 00:13:49.950 10. Little Mix used to get number ones all the 00:13:49.950 --> 00:13:52.549 time. And that is a very dangerous comparison 00:13:52.549 --> 00:13:54.669 to make. We have to contextualize this. In the 00:13:54.669 --> 00:13:57.029 current streaming era, the charts are incredibly 00:13:57.029 --> 00:13:59.909 stagnant. It is very hard to break into the top 00:13:59.909 --> 00:14:02.490 10 as a new solo act, even if you're already 00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:04.110 famous. That's true. It's a totally different 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:07.049 landscape now. A top 10 debut validates that 00:14:07.049 --> 00:14:09.700 the core audience migrated with her. It proves 00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:12.360 she has standalone fan base and the sources say 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:14.419 it did even better on the sales charts, right? 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:16.960 It did. It topped the UK singles downloads chart 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:19.639 and peaked at number two on a sales chart. What 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:21.620 does that actually tell us? Because nobody downloads 00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:23.740 music anymore, right? We all just stream on our 00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:27.559 phones. Casual listeners stream, super fans buy. 00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:31.539 Topping the download chart means her core audience 00:14:31.539 --> 00:14:34.879 is highly engaged and willing to spend actual 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:37.789 money to support her. That is a much more valuable 00:14:37.789 --> 00:14:40.350 metric for a long -term career than passive streaming 00:14:40.350 --> 00:14:42.610 numbers. That is a really good point. You can't 00:14:42.610 --> 00:14:44.889 build a massive arena tour on people who just 00:14:44.889 --> 00:14:46.450 have you on a background playlist while they 00:14:46.450 --> 00:14:48.269 do dishes. You need people who will buy the ticket. 00:14:48.549 --> 00:14:51.750 Correct. And that silver certification, which 00:14:51.750 --> 00:14:55.450 in the UK means 200 ,000 units shifted, confirms 00:14:55.450 --> 00:14:58.090 that commercial viability. It wasn't just a UK 00:14:58.090 --> 00:14:59.950 thing either. I saw some other countries popping 00:14:59.950 --> 00:15:03.129 up in the data. Yes. It charted in Ireland. It 00:15:03.129 --> 00:15:05.289 hit the Hot Singles chart in New Zealand and 00:15:05.289 --> 00:15:08.350 the Heatseeker chart in Sweden. It shows global 00:15:08.350 --> 00:15:10.529 curiosity. Now, you mentioned earlier that this 00:15:10.529 --> 00:15:12.470 is a case study. We have the single. We have 00:15:12.470 --> 00:15:14.889 the success. But what is this leading towards? 00:15:15.230 --> 00:15:17.330 This is the lead single for her debut album, 00:15:17.490 --> 00:15:20.850 which is self -titled Perry. But here's the wrinkle 00:15:20.850 --> 00:15:22.730 in the timeline that I found most interesting. 00:15:23.649 --> 00:15:27.610 The single dropped in April 2024. The album is 00:15:27.610 --> 00:15:30.700 slated for 2025. Whoa, wait, the single came 00:15:30.700 --> 00:15:34.080 out in April 2024, but the album is 2025. That 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:37.659 is a massive gap. In pop ears, that's like an 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:39.980 entire century. It is a very long time. Usually 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:42.440 you drop the single and the album comes out like 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:44.960 six weeks later to capitalize on the hype. Why 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:47.100 wait a full year? It creates a very long runway. 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.919 It suggests a strategy of building momentum slowly, 00:15:50.259 --> 00:15:52.720 releasing more singles, and establishing a real 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.419 catalog before dropping the full project. It's 00:15:55.419 --> 00:15:58.059 a marathon, not a sprint. It also gives listeners 00:15:58.059 --> 00:16:00.779 time to get used to Perry, the solo artist, versus 00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:03.320 Perry from Little Mix. Exactly. Prevents a flash 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:05.320 in the pan effect. And looking at the critical 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.620 reception we talked about, that strategy seems 00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:09.919 to be working. Lars Brandl at Billboard called 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.600 it a polished pop ballad. Holly Alton hailed 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.580 it as the perfect pop debut. Perfect pop debut. 00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:17.519 You really can't ask for a better quote than 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.059 that to put on your promotional poster. It validates 00:16:20.059 --> 00:16:22.559 the choice to go with a sound that is familiar, 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.320 but elevated. She didn't try to release an experimental 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.419 jazz odyssey. She released a polished, high quality 00:16:29.419 --> 00:16:31.919 pop song that played directly to her strengths. 00:16:32.419 --> 00:16:34.600 So let's recap the journey here. We started with 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.440 an Ed Sheeran demo. Perry takes it, reworks it 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.600 in her London home studio to make it the truth. 00:16:39.870 --> 00:16:42.750 She teams up with a rock veteran from Evanescence 00:16:42.750 --> 00:16:45.730 to build this country pop anthem structure. She 00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:48.090 launches it with a massive video in Cape Town, 00:16:48.509 --> 00:16:51.409 hits the top 10, tops the sales charts, and sets 00:16:51.409 --> 00:16:54.269 the stage for a 2025 album. It is a textbook 00:16:54.269 --> 00:16:56.970 execution of the solo launch. It really is. It 00:16:56.970 --> 00:16:58.870 feels like she managed to thread that needle 00:16:58.870 --> 00:17:02.269 of being new, but also being the Perry everyone 00:17:02.269 --> 00:17:04.569 fell in love with years ago. And that brings 00:17:04.569 --> 00:17:06.470 me to a provocative thought for you listening 00:17:06.470 --> 00:17:08.970 to Takeaway. I've been thinking about this while 00:17:08.970 --> 00:17:10.970 reviewing all these sources. OK, late on us. 00:17:10.990 --> 00:17:13.029 What's the big takeaway? We often obsess over 00:17:13.029 --> 00:17:15.869 reinvention in pop music. We want artists to 00:17:15.869 --> 00:17:17.930 shock us. We want the Miley Cyrus sticking her 00:17:17.930 --> 00:17:20.309 tongue out moment. We want them to destroy their 00:17:20.309 --> 00:17:22.089 old image and build something radically different. 00:17:22.509 --> 00:17:25.089 Right. The good girl gone bad narrative. We expect 00:17:25.089 --> 00:17:27.190 them to dye their hair and start singing heavy 00:17:27.190 --> 00:17:30.289 metal. Exactly. But Perry's approach with Forget 00:17:30.289 --> 00:17:33.230 About Us raises a completely different question. 00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:36.859 Is there more value in refinement? than reinvention. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.799 Oh, that's interesting. So instead of burning 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.220 it down, you just polish it up. Exactly. When 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:43.500 you come from a massive group like Little Mix, 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:46.279 maybe the boldest move isn't to run away from 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:48.819 pop, but to look the audience in the eye and 00:17:48.819 --> 00:17:52.359 say, I can do this better than anyone else. By 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.039 bridging the gap with familiar excellence, she 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.579 might be building a more sustainable foundation 00:17:57.579 --> 00:18:00.319 than if she had tried to shock the system just 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.519 for the sake of headlines. That is a great point. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:04.680 Sometimes just being really, really good at what 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:06.700 you do is the most radical statement of all. 00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:09.240 Indeed. It's about confidence in your craft, 00:18:09.579 --> 00:18:11.779 not just your image. Well, thank you so much 00:18:11.779 --> 00:18:14.160 for walking us through this deep dive. It's fascinating 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.200 to peek behind the curtain of a song like this. 00:18:16.420 --> 00:18:18.380 It's not just a melody, it's a full business 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:20.579 strategy. My pleasure. And for you listening, 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:22.920 I have a little homework assignment. Next time 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:24.859 Forget About Us comes on your playlist, and it 00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:26.900 probably will because it's catchy as heck. Do 00:18:26.900 --> 00:18:29.480 me a favor. Wait for that bridge. Don't just 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.059 sing along. Really listen to how she navigates 00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:34.480 those low notes before she belts it out. That 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.759 is the sound of an artist claiming her space. 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:38.880 Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you on 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.740 the next deep dive.