WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.620 So, welcome back to the Deep Dive. Yeah, glad 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:05.059 to be here. I hope you are, you know, really 00:00:05.059 --> 00:00:06.860 ready for this one. Oh, they better be. Because 00:00:06.860 --> 00:00:09.759 today we are, well, we're turning up the volume. 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:12.060 Literally. And I don't just mean a little bit. 00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:14.500 Right. I mean, we are basically cranking the 00:00:14.500 --> 00:00:16.719 knob until it snaps right off. It is going to 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:20.059 be loud. It is. We are looking at a band that, 00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:23.559 well, they aren't just a musical group. No, not 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:26.550 at all. They are... practically a case study. 00:00:26.670 --> 00:00:29.070 A case study in resilience, really. Resilience, 00:00:29.170 --> 00:00:32.070 yeah. It's an absolute tragedy. And just the 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:35.670 wild sort of volatile evolution of modern heavy 00:00:35.670 --> 00:00:39.109 metal. It is a fascinating story. Very. I mean, 00:00:39.109 --> 00:00:41.210 even if you aren't a metalhead. Right. Even if 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:43.350 you hate the music. Exactly. Even if you've never 00:00:43.350 --> 00:00:45.929 moshed a day in your life, the narrative arc 00:00:45.929 --> 00:00:48.770 here is just, it's Shakespearean. It really is. 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:50.950 It has everything. You have this meteoric rise 00:00:50.950 --> 00:00:54.979 from a garage in California. Right. A devastating 00:00:54.979 --> 00:00:58.299 loss that shook an entire subculture. A highly 00:00:58.299 --> 00:01:00.859 controversial reinvention. And it nearly destroyed 00:01:00.859 --> 00:01:04.599 them. Nearly destroyed their whole career. And 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:07.260 just this constant, constant struggle for identity. 00:01:07.659 --> 00:01:09.900 We are talking, of course, about suicide silence. 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:12.620 The one and only. Now for the uninitiated out 00:01:12.620 --> 00:01:15.939 there. These guys are titans. Absolute legends 00:01:15.939 --> 00:01:18.000 in their space. Right. We aren't talking about 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.459 some obscure underground act that, you know, 00:01:21.459 --> 00:01:24.920 only. 10 people know. Yeah. Loudwire, which is 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:27.019 basically the Bible for this stuff. Pretty much. 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:28.659 Yeah. You can call them one of the big four death 00:01:28.659 --> 00:01:31.060 core. Which is a very significant designation. 00:01:31.459 --> 00:01:34.060 Huge. Because you hear big four in metal and 00:01:34.060 --> 00:01:36.019 you usually think of the thrash legends, right? 00:01:36.219 --> 00:01:38.980 Right. Metallica Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax. Exactly. 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.099 So for Loudwire to create a big four specifically 00:01:42.099 --> 00:01:44.799 for death core. It elevates them. It puts suicide 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.480 silence right on the Mount Rushmore of this genre. 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:50.140 So who else is on that mountain with them? You 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:53.439 have Whitechapel. Right. Viart is murder. And 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:56.659 Job for a cowboy. Okay, so heavy hitters. These 00:01:56.659 --> 00:01:58.180 are the bands that took a sound that was very, 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:01.299 very niche. Very abrasive. Unlistenable to some 00:02:01.299 --> 00:02:03.519 people. Right, and they dragged it onto the main 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:05.760 stage of the world's biggest festivals. Exactly. 00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:08.879 And just so we are all on the same page before 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:11.379 we jump into the timeline. It's a long timeline. 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:13.719 It is, but I know we have listeners from all 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.159 backgrounds tuning in. Some who might be hearing 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.759 the word deathcore for the literal first time 00:02:18.759 --> 00:02:21.449 today. Fair enough. Let's unpack what that actually 00:02:21.449 --> 00:02:24.610 means. It sounds intense because it is right. 00:02:24.849 --> 00:02:27.389 It's very intense. It is a fusion genre. Okay. 00:02:27.449 --> 00:02:30.370 Think of it as a head -on collision between two 00:02:30.370 --> 00:02:33.669 very different worlds of heavy music. Okay. What's 00:02:33.669 --> 00:02:36.090 on the first side? On one side, you have traditional 00:02:36.090 --> 00:02:39.050 death metal. So bands like Cannibal Corpse. Right. 00:02:39.289 --> 00:02:42.069 Cannibal Corpse or Morbid Angel Suffocation. 00:02:42.409 --> 00:02:45.050 Classics. From them, you get the speed, the blast, 00:02:45.210 --> 00:02:48.819 beats on the drums. And those guttural low growl. 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:52.060 The cookie monster vocals, as people jokingly 00:02:52.060 --> 00:02:53.960 call them. Exactly, the cookie monster sound. 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:56.000 That's the death part. Okay, so what about the 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.819 core part? Death core. That comes from metal 00:02:58.819 --> 00:03:02.080 core or hard core. And the absolute key ingredient 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:05.629 there is the breakdown. Ah, the breakdown. I 00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:08.490 love a good breakdown. Who doesn't? For you listening, 00:03:08.610 --> 00:03:10.610 the breakdown is that moment in the song where 00:03:10.610 --> 00:03:12.909 everything slows down, right? Exactly. The tempo 00:03:12.909 --> 00:03:15.530 drops completely. The guitars lock into this 00:03:15.530 --> 00:03:18.930 rhythmic chugging pattern. Usually on the lowest 00:03:18.930 --> 00:03:21.030 strings possible. Yes, the lowest open strings. 00:03:21.550 --> 00:03:24.889 And the focus shifts away from speed and goes 00:03:24.889 --> 00:03:27.370 to pure rhythmic heaviness. It is designed for 00:03:27.370 --> 00:03:29.960 one thing. To make the audience move. To open 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:32.560 up the pit. It is highly physically aggressive 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:35.419 music. And Suicide Silence was right at the center 00:03:35.419 --> 00:03:38.400 of refining that exact blend. It perfected it, 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:40.599 really. So our mission today is to unpack their 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.240 entire history. From the very beginning. Right 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:46.020 from their garage days. Yeah. Back in 2002 all 00:03:46.020 --> 00:03:49.020 the way to the present day here in early 2026. 00:03:49.340 --> 00:03:51.219 We have a lot of ground to cover. We really do. 00:03:51.300 --> 00:03:53.620 We're talking the Family Guy demo. Yes, we have 00:03:53.620 --> 00:03:55.840 to talk about that. The tragic death of Mitch 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:59.560 Lucker. the massive backlash to their self -titled 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.340 album. The Great Experiment. And the really recent 00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:05.620 news about founding member Chris Garza. So we 00:04:05.620 --> 00:04:08.759 are drawing from the band's comprehensive history, 00:04:08.939 --> 00:04:11.919 their full discography, to piece this all together. 00:04:12.259 --> 00:04:15.919 It's a timeline that spans over two decades of 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.819 total chaos. Yeah, chaos is the right word. So 00:04:18.819 --> 00:04:21.680 let's rewind the tape. Let's go back to California, 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:26.220 Riverside, California in 2002. Okay, setting 00:04:26.220 --> 00:04:28.379 the scene. What was the vibe out there for this 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:31.800 kind of music? Well, the early 2000s metal scene 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:34.199 in California, specifically the Inland Empire, 00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:36.720 where Riverside, it was a very specific ecosystem. 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:39.959 How so? It was hot, it was dusty, and it was 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:44.540 very, very DIY. Do it yourself. Exactly. Suicide 00:04:44.540 --> 00:04:47.019 Silence didn't start with these grand ambitions 00:04:47.019 --> 00:04:48.980 of world domination. They weren't trying to be 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:51.360 rock stars. No, it was actually founded just 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.579 as a side project. I love that. It's like, hey, 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:55.579 we're all in other bands, but let's get together 00:04:55.579 --> 00:04:57.560 and make the nastiest noise we can on the weekends. 00:04:57.899 --> 00:05:00.180 Precisely. The original members were all playing 00:05:00.180 --> 00:05:02.199 in other local groups at the time. Who was in 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:04.500 that first room? You had Chris Garza and Josh 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:08.240 Tufano on guitars, Chris Gruselski on bass, Justin 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.730 Tufano on drums. Okay. And Tanner Womack on vocals. 00:05:11.970 --> 00:05:14.089 Tanner Womack. Yes. Now that is a name that might 00:05:14.089 --> 00:05:16.769 actually stump even some casual fans. Oh, definitely. 00:05:16.810 --> 00:05:18.970 Because when people think of early Suicide Silence, 00:05:19.209 --> 00:05:22.529 they really just think of one name. Mitch Lucker. 00:05:22.670 --> 00:05:26.240 Mitch Lucker. Yeah. But Tanner was the guy. Mitch 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.980 is central to this entire story. He is the icon 00:05:29.980 --> 00:05:32.620 of the band. But he wasn't there on day one. 00:05:32.779 --> 00:05:35.180 Right. In 2002, he was somewhere else. He was 00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:37.100 actually the front man for a totally different 00:05:37.100 --> 00:05:40.139 local band called Dying Dreams. Dying Dreams. 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:43.600 Yeah. And his brother, Cliff, was in a band called 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.459 The Tattered. So it was a very interconnected 00:05:45.459 --> 00:05:48.319 local scene. Sorry. Everyone knew everyone. They 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:50.660 all went to each other's shows. So how did the 00:05:50.660 --> 00:05:53.279 switch happen? How did Mitch go from that guy 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.420 in the other band? to the face of Suicide Silence. 00:05:56.660 --> 00:05:58.959 It is a great story that really highlights how 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.160 informal things were back then. Let's hear it. 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:03.800 So Suicide Silence played their very first show 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:07.779 in April 2003. Okay. And during that set, Tanner 00:06:07.779 --> 00:06:09.779 Womack, the original vocalist we just mentioned, 00:06:09.939 --> 00:06:11.939 he invited Mitch to come up on stage. Just to 00:06:11.939 --> 00:06:14.199 do guest vocals on a song. Right, just a friendly 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:15.920 collaboration. Hey, come scream with me for a 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:17.699 minute. That happens all the time at local shows. 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:20.980 Exactly. But clearly it went well. I'm guessing 00:06:20.980 --> 00:06:23.689 very well. It went too well in a way. Tanner 00:06:23.689 --> 00:06:25.970 Womack had this idea after that. He thought, 00:06:26.029 --> 00:06:28.769 what if we had two vocalists? A dual vocal attack. 00:06:29.050 --> 00:06:31.810 Yeah. Two front men. That is a bold choice. I 00:06:31.810 --> 00:06:34.250 mean, you see that occasionally in metal, but 00:06:34.250 --> 00:06:36.709 it's risky. Very risky. It can get messy really 00:06:36.709 --> 00:06:39.310 fast on stage. And apparently it did get messy. 00:06:39.930 --> 00:06:41.910 Or at the very least, it just didn't feel right 00:06:41.910 --> 00:06:43.810 to the rest of the band. So what happened? They 00:06:43.810 --> 00:06:46.829 played exactly one show with both Tanner and 00:06:46.829 --> 00:06:49.750 Mitch on stage as official members. Just one? 00:06:49.870 --> 00:06:53.009 Just one single show. And immediately after that 00:06:53.009 --> 00:06:56.470 show, the band made a decision. A tough one. 00:06:56.550 --> 00:06:58.910 They fired Tanner. The guy who started the band? 00:06:59.110 --> 00:07:00.790 The guy who started it and the guy who literally 00:07:00.790 --> 00:07:04.089 invited Mitch up in the first place. Wow. Talk 00:07:04.089 --> 00:07:07.149 about a ruthless start. Just thanks for the invite. 00:07:07.209 --> 00:07:10.129 You're fired. It is brutal. But they kept Mitch 00:07:10.129 --> 00:07:13.449 as the sole frontman. That decision really set 00:07:13.449 --> 00:07:15.850 the trajectory for the entire band. It absolutely 00:07:15.850 --> 00:07:18.610 did. It is the harsh reality of the music business 00:07:18.610 --> 00:07:21.329 in a microcosm. Yeah. They saw something in Mitch. 00:07:21.470 --> 00:07:24.829 They saw a spark. A charisma. He had this very 00:07:24.829 --> 00:07:28.670 specific vocal style and stage presence that 00:07:28.670 --> 00:07:30.769 they just knew they needed. He had the it factor. 00:07:30.990 --> 00:07:33.709 He did. But even with Mitch secured, the lineup 00:07:33.709 --> 00:07:36.069 instability didn't stop there. No. No, it was 00:07:36.069 --> 00:07:38.110 a revolving door for a while. Right, because 00:07:38.110 --> 00:07:40.509 they were basically kids. Exactly. You had drummers 00:07:40.509 --> 00:07:43.829 and bassists swapping out constantly. Josh Cotter 00:07:43.829 --> 00:07:47.389 came in on drums. Mike Olheiser on bass. It's 00:07:47.389 --> 00:07:50.370 that classic local band struggle. Just jobs life. 00:07:50.550 --> 00:07:52.339 Everything gets in the way of the dream. But 00:07:52.339 --> 00:07:55.560 amidst all of this shuffling, all the chaos, 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:00.279 they recorded a demo in 2004. And this demo has 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:02.639 a hilarious nickname. I mentioned it in the intro. 00:08:02.899 --> 00:08:05.100 The Family Guy demo. Please explain this to me. 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:07.279 This is just a perfect snapshot of the era. So 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.759 this is 2004, right? Right. Family Guy. The animated 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:11.759 sitcom was absolutely huge. It had just been 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:13.680 brought back from cancellation. Exactly. Everyone 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.220 in high school and college was quoting it constantly. 00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:20.040 I remember. So the band recorded a demo that 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:23.819 musically was very brutal. Pure, aggressive deathcore. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.600 But they decided to layer heavy use of audio 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.699 samples from Family Guy directly into the tracks. 00:08:30.060 --> 00:08:34.200 That is so incredibly 2004. It really is. It's 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.700 almost charming in a way. You have this brutal, 00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:39.480 heavy music, and then Peter Griffin's voice just 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.940 cuts in. It sounds ridiculous to think about 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:44.299 now, but that was the style in that specific 00:08:44.299 --> 00:08:46.879 scene. It was about being irreverent. Exactly. 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.799 It was a signal to the fans saying, yes, we are 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:53.259 heavy. But we don't take ourselves too seriously. 00:08:53.500 --> 00:08:55.740 It was a meme before memes were really a thing. 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:58.139 Perfect way to put it. But more importantly than 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:00.580 the cartoon samples, that demo contained a track 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:03.019 called Bludgeon to Death. Oh, classic touch. 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:04.940 It's an absolute classic song. It'd become a 00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:07.409 permanent staple of their live set. So people 00:09:07.409 --> 00:09:10.610 looked past the Family Guy jokes. They did. Despite 00:09:10.610 --> 00:09:12.950 the samples, people started really paying attention 00:09:12.950 --> 00:09:15.330 to the musicianship. Where were people hearing 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:17.690 this? They released it digitally on Myspace. 00:09:18.070 --> 00:09:21.789 Ah, Myspace. Context is so key here. We cannot 00:09:21.789 --> 00:09:24.309 overstate the importance of Myspace for this 00:09:24.309 --> 00:09:27.009 entire genre. You really can't. Myspace was the 00:09:27.009 --> 00:09:28.929 engine for Deathcore. You don't need a record 00:09:28.929 --> 00:09:30.830 label. You didn't need a publicist. You just 00:09:30.830 --> 00:09:33.210 needed a profile page. A profile. A cool band 00:09:33.210 --> 00:09:36.049 photo and a heavy breakdown. If you had those, 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:39.539 You could get 50 ,000 plays in a single month. 00:09:39.740 --> 00:09:41.940 And Suicide Silence rode that wave perfectly. 00:09:42.100 --> 00:09:44.120 They did. They started to build a real organic 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.480 following online before they even had a proper 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:48.500 physical release. And this is where the band 00:09:48.500 --> 00:09:51.159 starts to get very serious. They transitioned 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:54.159 from that weekend side project to this is our 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:57.659 life now. Yes. Around 2005, they release a self 00:09:57.659 --> 00:10:01.059 -titled EP on a small label, Third Degree Records. 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.480 So a real release. Right. And they stop just 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:05.840 playing the local Inland Empire shows and start 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:07.600 booking their own tours. Just getting in a van. 00:10:07.899 --> 00:10:10.419 Grinding it out, sleeping on floors, living off 00:10:10.419 --> 00:10:12.299 fast food, playing with bands like All Shall 00:10:12.299 --> 00:10:15.460 Perish. Faying their dues. And crucially, this 00:10:15.460 --> 00:10:18.500 is when they solidified the lineup. The classic 00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:21.230 era lineup starts forming here. Right. Rick Ash, 00:10:21.389 --> 00:10:23.750 the guitarist, left for school and Mark Howman 00:10:23.750 --> 00:10:26.389 stepped in. Mark Howman is a really key figure. 00:10:26.549 --> 00:10:29.070 He has been the lead guitarist ever since. He 00:10:29.070 --> 00:10:31.090 brought a level of technical skill that really 00:10:31.090 --> 00:10:33.389 elevated their whole sound. He could do the heavy 00:10:33.389 --> 00:10:35.129 rhythmic chugging, but he could also actually 00:10:35.129 --> 00:10:39.389 shred. Exactly. And then in 2006, Josh Goddard 00:10:39.389 --> 00:10:41.570 left on drums and was replaced by Alex Lopez. 00:10:41.970 --> 00:10:44.629 Okay, so by 2006, the pieces are firmly on the 00:10:44.629 --> 00:10:48.529 board. Yes. You have Mitch Lucker, Chris Garza. 00:10:49.149 --> 00:10:51.889 Mark Halman, Alex Lopez, and eventually Dan Kenney 00:10:51.889 --> 00:10:55.070 on base. They are young, they are hungry, and 00:10:55.070 --> 00:10:57.370 they are about to just explode. Which brings 00:10:57.370 --> 00:11:00.730 us to part two of our timeline, the meteor rise. 00:11:00.990 --> 00:11:04.490 We are talking 2007 to 2010. If the demo days 00:11:04.490 --> 00:11:08.039 were the initial spark, This era is the explosion. 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:11.299 And the big catalyst for that explosion was Century 00:11:11.299 --> 00:11:14.379 Media Records. Huge deal. Century Media is a 00:11:14.379 --> 00:11:17.080 major independent metal label. Getting signed 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.200 there wasn't just a pat on the back. It was real 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.559 validation. It meant the industry was actually 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:24.059 betting real money on them. So they get the backing 00:11:24.059 --> 00:11:26.419 and they go into the studio to record their debut 00:11:26.419 --> 00:11:28.950 full -length album. The cleansing. The cleansing. 00:11:29.049 --> 00:11:30.649 And they didn't just record it in somebody's 00:11:30.649 --> 00:11:32.610 basement this time. They worked with a real producer, 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:35.289 Tu Madsen. Right. But the way they recorded it 00:11:35.289 --> 00:11:37.649 is what's really interesting to me, especially 00:11:37.649 --> 00:11:40.009 when you compare it to how metal is made today. 00:11:40.269 --> 00:11:43.549 It is basically a lost art now. Explain that. 00:11:43.690 --> 00:11:46.730 Well, today, modern metal is often very, very 00:11:46.730 --> 00:11:49.639 digital. Very precise. You record one guitar 00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:52.039 riff and you just copy -paste it so it's mathematically 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.639 perfectly in time. Right. You sample replace 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.980 the drum hits so every single snare hit is the 00:11:57.980 --> 00:12:00.879 exact same volume. It sounds huge, but it can 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.879 be a little sterile. Exactly. Suicide Silence 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:06.659 went the complete opposite direction. They tracked 00:12:06.659 --> 00:12:09.399 the cleansing live. Live in the studio, meaning 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.980 the whole band is in a room playing at the exact 00:12:11.980 --> 00:12:15.120 same time. Yes. They wanted to capture that raw, 00:12:15.299 --> 00:12:17.850 frantic, sweaty energy. of their live shows. 00:12:18.029 --> 00:12:19.669 They didn't want it polished. They didn't want 00:12:19.669 --> 00:12:21.389 it to sound sterile. They wanted it to sound 00:12:21.389 --> 00:12:24.669 dangerous. If the tempo naturally speeds up a 00:12:24.669 --> 00:12:26.669 little bit in the chorus because they're excited. 00:12:26.830 --> 00:12:29.610 Good. Keep it. That's real. So the cleansing 00:12:29.610 --> 00:12:33.330 drops in September 2007. And the numbers? I mean, 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:35.710 for a deaf core band in 2007, these numbers are 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:38.610 wild. They are completely unprecedented for the 00:12:38.610 --> 00:12:41.870 time and the genre. The album debuted at number 00:12:41.870 --> 00:12:45.789 94 on the Billboard 200. Breaking the top 100 00:12:45.789 --> 00:12:48.470 with an album full of screaming and blast beats. 00:12:48.690 --> 00:12:51.730 And it sold 7 ,250 copies in its first week. 00:12:51.929 --> 00:12:55.769 Now to a listener, used to modern pop numbers 00:12:55.769 --> 00:12:57.490 or Taylor Swift numbers that might sound really 00:12:57.490 --> 00:12:59.549 small. Sure. But unpack that for the heavy metal 00:12:59.549 --> 00:13:02.379 world specifically in 2007. You really have to 00:13:02.379 --> 00:13:05.039 remember, 2007 was the absolute height of the 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.720 piracy era. LimeWire torrents. Right. People 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:09.779 were stealing music left and right. Nobody was 00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:12.720 buying CDs. Right. So for a debut album from 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:16.100 a highly extreme abrasive metal band to convince 00:13:16.100 --> 00:13:18.759 7 ,000 people to actually go to a store and pay 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:21.179 for it in week one. It's massive. It became one 00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:23.700 of the best selling debut albums in Century Media's 00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:26.379 entire label history. That is the real aha moment 00:13:26.379 --> 00:13:28.919 for the whole scene. Yeah. That proves this wasn't 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:30.879 just a niche underground MySpace thing anymore. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.320 Deathcore had officially arrived. It validated 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.899 the genre completely and obviously got them on 00:13:35.899 --> 00:13:37.700 the road. Oh yeah, they got onto the Mayhem Festival 00:13:37.700 --> 00:13:40.500 in 2008. The biggest summer metal tour. They 00:13:40.500 --> 00:13:42.620 toured Europe with Parkway Drive. They were suddenly 00:13:42.620 --> 00:13:44.519 everywhere. And they weren't resting on their 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:46.440 laurels either. They go right back into the album 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:48.500 cycle for the next record. No time to bleed. 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.059 And Mitch Lucker, I just love his confidence 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:54.580 here. He goes on Headbanger's Ball, man. Remember 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:57.259 Headbanger's Ball? Classic MTV2. And what does 00:13:57.259 --> 00:13:59.370 he say on national television? He essentially 00:13:59.370 --> 00:14:02.330 promised that the new record would blow the cleansing 00:14:02.330 --> 00:14:04.549 away. He was hyping it up like a prizefighter 00:14:04.549 --> 00:14:07.429 at a weigh -in. He was. And the band actually 00:14:07.429 --> 00:14:09.789 changed their whole approach in the studio to 00:14:09.789 --> 00:14:12.389 ensure he was right. How so? Instead of recording 00:14:12.389 --> 00:14:15.129 live all in one room with two Madsen, they tracked 00:14:15.129 --> 00:14:17.409 instruments separately. The modern way. Right, 00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:19.850 with a producer named Machine. Machine is known 00:14:19.850 --> 00:14:22.710 for a very specific sound in metal, right? Very 00:14:22.710 --> 00:14:26.299 punchy, very industrial, very, very clean. So 00:14:26.299 --> 00:14:28.179 they were aiming for a produced sound this time. 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.059 They wanted to see what they sounded like with 00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:33.360 high gloss production values. It'd work? Commercially, 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:36.879 absolutely. No Time to Bleed came out in 2009. 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.799 It peaked at number 32 on the Billboard 200. 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:43.580 From 94 on the first album to 32 on the second. 00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:46.759 That is a huge jump. And first week sales doubled. 00:14:47.259 --> 00:14:50.340 14 ,000 copies. That is exponential growth. That 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:53.139 is a band entering their prime. And the music 00:14:53.139 --> 00:14:55.860 industry really recognized it. In 2009, they 00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:58.220 won the Revolver Golden God Award for Best New 00:14:58.220 --> 00:15:00.759 Talent. That's a huge magazine for the scene. 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.580 They also won Most Innovative Band. They were 00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:06.600 unquestionably the it band of the heavy scene. 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:08.720 They were popping up in broader pop culture, 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:11.700 too. Yeah, they had a remix done by Sean Crahan. 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:14.980 Clown from Slipknot. Right. And they were featured 00:15:14.980 --> 00:15:16.940 on the Sawzack movie soundtrack. Which is the 00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:21.159 absolute peak of late 2000s metal culture. Peeing 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.360 on a Saw soundtrack was a rite of passage. If 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:25.700 you were heavy and you were popular in 2009, 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:27.360 you were on that soundtrack. It meant you had 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:29.980 successfully crossed over from just being a band 00:15:29.980 --> 00:15:32.000 to being a brand. So you have this band that 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.120 is on top of the world. They are heavy. They 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.679 are successful. They are young. Everything is 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:39.879 going right. But as we move into 2011, things 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:42.259 start to shift again musically. We get to the 00:15:42.259 --> 00:15:45.340 album The Black Crown. The Black Crown is a very 00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:47.899 interesting pivot point in their history. It 00:15:47.899 --> 00:15:50.600 came out in 2011. Musically, it was still heavy, 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.480 but lyrically, Mitch Lucker was changing. He 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.279 was evolving as a writer. Yes. How so? Well, 00:15:57.340 --> 00:16:00.259 the cleansing was very outwardly anti -religious. 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.519 It was angry at institutions, angry at God. Very 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:05.940 external anger. But with The Black Crown, Mitch 00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:07.960 started writing about highly personal topics. 00:16:08.739 --> 00:16:12.980 his anxiety, his family, his inner demons. There's 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.600 a quote from him regarding this shift that I 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.100 think is really important to understand where 00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:19.639 his head was at. He told Kerring Magazine, I 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:21.620 don't see the good in making people hate you 00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.940 for something you say. This record is for everybody. 00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:26.220 That is a real sign of maturity, right? Definitely. 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:28.220 Realizing you don't have to just be shocking 00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:30.879 for the sake of being shocking anymore. Connection 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.059 is more powerful than alienation. Precisely. 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:36.240 He was opening up as a person. And the fans responded 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.039 well to it. The album debuted at number 28 on 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:41.139 Billboard. So they were consistent. They were 00:16:41.139 --> 00:16:42.940 a machine at this point. And then we hit the 00:16:42.940 --> 00:16:45.980 date that changed everything. November 4, 2012. 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:49.480 This is the moment where the entire history of 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.340 Suicide Silence just cleaves into before and 00:16:52.340 --> 00:16:55.419 after. It is a tragedy that is genuinely still 00:16:55.419 --> 00:16:57.720 felt in the scene today. It was Halloween night, 00:16:57.820 --> 00:17:00.659 essentially. Or just after. Yes. The accident 00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:03.899 happened shortly after 9 .00 p .m. on Halloween 00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:08.150 night, October 31, 2012. Mitch Lucker was a big 00:17:08.150 --> 00:17:10.869 motorcycle enthusiast. He was riding his bike 00:17:10.869 --> 00:17:13.309 in Huntington Beach. He lost control and crashed. 00:17:13.589 --> 00:17:16.269 And the injuries were severe. Catastrophic. He 00:17:16.269 --> 00:17:19.269 was rushed to the hospital, but at 6 .17 a .m. 00:17:19.269 --> 00:17:21.269 on November 1st, he passed away. He was only 00:17:21.269 --> 00:17:25.160 28 years old. 28. It's heartbreaking. He left 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:27.359 behind a wife and a young daughter, Kennedy. 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.799 It sent an absolute shockwave through the entire 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.380 metal community. It really did. I remember that 00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:34.799 day clearly. It wasn't just a singer died. It 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.839 felt like the whole scene lost a leader. And 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:38.940 Fitch really was the identity of that band. He 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:40.980 had the look, he had the stage moves, the lucker 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:42.759 style. Everyone in the crowd did it. He was the 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:44.920 front man that every other kid in a garage band 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.900 tried to emulate. So it really did feel like 00:17:47.900 --> 00:17:50.279 the end of the band. And the surviving members 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.569 were faced with an impossible question. What 00:17:53.569 --> 00:17:56.710 do you do? Do you stop? Do you try to continue? 00:17:56.970 --> 00:17:59.750 They decided to honor him first. The memorial 00:17:59.750 --> 00:18:03.910 show. Right. December 21, 2012. At the Fox Theater 00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:07.049 in Pomona, they called the show Ending is the 00:18:07.049 --> 00:18:10.049 Beginning. And it was a benefit show. Specifically 00:18:10.049 --> 00:18:13.029 for Mitch's daughter's education fund. And the 00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:15.950 format of that night was really special. They 00:18:15.950 --> 00:18:17.890 didn't just play an instrumental set to an empty 00:18:17.890 --> 00:18:20.170 mic stand. No, they had a completely different 00:18:20.170 --> 00:18:23.670 guest vocalist. for every single song on the 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:26.009 set list. It was a who's who of metal. You had 00:18:26.009 --> 00:18:27.789 the biggest names stepping up to sing Mitch's 00:18:27.789 --> 00:18:30.849 parts. Randy Blythe from Lamb of God. Rob Flynn 00:18:30.849 --> 00:18:33.269 from Machine Head. Phil Bozeman from Whitechapel. 00:18:33.269 --> 00:18:35.869 Everyone came out. It was a huge cathartic release 00:18:35.869 --> 00:18:39.849 for the fans and obviously for the band. A way 00:18:39.849 --> 00:18:42.529 to say goodbye. properly it firmly marked the 00:18:42.529 --> 00:18:45.210 end of the mitch lucker era right and logically 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:47.029 looking from the outside you'd think okay that's 00:18:47.029 --> 00:18:48.750 a beautiful send -off maybe they just hang it 00:18:48.750 --> 00:18:51.309 up now because how on earth do you replace a 00:18:51.309 --> 00:18:53.529 guy like mitch lucker that is the big question 00:18:53.529 --> 00:18:56.289 but that is not what happened this brings us 00:18:56.289 --> 00:18:59.549 to part four of the timeline the resurrection 00:18:59.549 --> 00:19:02.670 it took about a year of total public silence 00:19:02.670 --> 00:19:05.970 from the band regrouping But in October 2013, 00:19:06.450 --> 00:19:09.329 the rumors started swirling online, and then 00:19:09.329 --> 00:19:11.650 it was officially confirmed. Suicide Silence 00:19:11.650 --> 00:19:15.990 had a new vocalist. Hernan Eddie Hermita. Eddie 00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:18.829 Hermita. And this wasn't just some unknown kid 00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:20.809 they found on YouTube doing vocal covers. You 00:19:20.809 --> 00:19:22.549 know, Eddie was very established. He was the 00:19:22.549 --> 00:19:24.569 front man for All Shall Perish. Which was another 00:19:24.569 --> 00:19:26.789 highly respected deathcore band. They were peers. 00:19:27.009 --> 00:19:29.519 Exactly. He had the pedigree. But stepping into 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.039 Mitch Luckers' shoes? That is the hardest job 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.200 in music. It is like stepping in for Bon Scott 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.660 in ACDC. The pressure is unimaginable. And he 00:19:37.660 --> 00:19:39.799 actually had to quit his own successful band 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:42.319 to take this gig. Yeah. That is a huge professional 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.160 risk. It was. But they ripped the band -aid off 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.539 quickly. They released a clip online of the song 00:19:47.539 --> 00:19:50.359 You Only Live Once. A classic Mitch song. But 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:53.180 with Eddie on vocals, it was a clear statement 00:19:53.180 --> 00:19:55.559 from the band. We can still do this. We still 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.240 sound like suicide silence. And they went right 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:00.500 into recording a new album together, You Can't 00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:03.220 Stop Me. which came out in 2014. And there is 00:20:03.220 --> 00:20:05.619 a really emotional detail about that album title 00:20:05.619 --> 00:20:07.579 that I think is critical to understanding why 00:20:07.579 --> 00:20:10.059 fans accepted it. Share that detail. The title, 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.259 You Can't Stop Me, comes directly from a song 00:20:12.259 --> 00:20:14.720 Mitch Lucker wrote lyrics for right before he 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.559 died. Wow. The new album actually contains some 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:20.440 of Mitch's final written lyrics. So in a way, 00:20:20.500 --> 00:20:22.640 Mitch was still a part of that record. He was. 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.240 He was effectively a co -writer on his Replacements 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.519 debut album. Exactly. It was a beautiful bridge 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.259 between the past and the future. It gave fans 00:20:30.259 --> 00:20:32.839 a emotional permission to like it. And the fans 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:37.160 stuck around. The first week sales were 15 ,000 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:39.819 copies. That is actually higher than No Time 00:20:39.819 --> 00:20:42.660 to Bleed. That is incredible. It proved that 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:45.579 the band could survive the loss of their iconic 00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:47.880 frontman. It was a huge triumph of resilience. 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.599 It really was. And there was always a but in 00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:53.880 these rock and roll stories. Always. If the transition 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:57.500 to Eddie was the triumph. What came next was 00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:00.200 the turbulence. Part five, the great experiment. 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:03.359 Or as some fans call it, the disaster. We are 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.019 talking about the self -titled album, Suicide 00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:09.700 Silence, released in February 2017. So imagine 00:21:09.700 --> 00:21:12.339 the context for a second. You have successfully 00:21:12.339 --> 00:21:15.539 navigated the death of your singer. You survived 00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:17.819 the impossible. You have the fans on your side. 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:21.799 And then you decide to take a massive left turn. 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.920 They worked with producer Ross Robinson on this 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.240 one. Who famously produced the first Korn and 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.880 Slipknot albums in the 90s. And that new metal 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.180 influence was very apparent. To say the least. 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:34.980 They released a single called Doris. And it was 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:37.680 not deathcore. Not at all. It was weird. It was 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.240 groovy. But the biggest shock was the vocals. 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:44.700 It was reportedly 70 % clean vocals. Clean singing 00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.819 in suicide silence. Yes. That is like Metallico 00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:50.180 cutting their hair in the 90s, but 10 times more 00:21:50.180 --> 00:21:53.000 controversial for this specific underground scene. 00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:55.259 And it wasn't polished radio -friendly singing 00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:58.059 either. It was raw, strained, unhinged singing. 00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:00.480 Betty was trying something very expressive. Very 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.259 Mike Tatton from Faith No More, but the fan base 00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:05.900 was just not ready for it. The backlash was immediate. 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.440 I remember the memes everywhere. The criticism 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:11.660 was absolutely scathing. There was a specific 00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:14.819 vocalization Eddie did in the song Doris. A high 00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:17.039 -pitched teehee sound. Right. And that became 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.559 an internet joke instantly. The YouTube comments 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:22.180 were a complete war zone. And the numbers completely 00:22:22.180 --> 00:22:24.619 back up the online anger. We talked about 15 00:22:24.619 --> 00:22:26.759 ,000 copies for the previous album. Right. What 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:29.140 did this one do? First week sales plummeted to 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:34.279 400 and 650 copies. Ouch. That is a 69 % drop. 00:22:34.420 --> 00:22:36.900 That is the market speaking loud and clear. It 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:39.200 is a classic case of a band trying to evolve. 00:22:40.879 --> 00:22:43.099 They wanted to try something new, something raw, 00:22:43.299 --> 00:22:45.859 and the fan base completely rejecting the change. 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:48.220 It raises a really interesting question of ownership. 00:22:48.619 --> 00:22:51.160 Does the band own their sound, or do the fans 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.700 own it? It is a cautionary tale, really. You 00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:56.279 want to grow, but if you alienate the people 00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:58.279 who put you there, the floor just falls right 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:00.599 out from under you. They hit a wall. Sales are 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.059 down. Fans are angry. Tours are getting much 00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:05.400 harder to book. What do you do? You pivot back. 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:08.680 Which brings us to part six. returned to form 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.039 they clearly heard the feedback loud and clear 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:14.240 they did in 2020 they released become the hunter 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.019 and then in 2023 remember you must die even the 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:22.200 titles sound like apologies to the old fans remember 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.299 you must die sounds like classic violent death 00:23:25.299 --> 00:23:27.640 core imagery and the music finally matched again 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:30.599 The growls were back. The speed was back. The 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:32.940 blast beats were back. They even returned to 00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:35.859 Century Media Records in 2022. Their original 00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:38.259 label home. It was a huge full circle moment. 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:40.680 A total reset butter. A course correction. Yeah. 00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:42.440 Basically saying, OK, we tried the experimental 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:44.880 thing. Sorry about that. Here are the heavy breakdowns 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.339 you ordered. Essentially, yes. And musically, 00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:50.940 they stabilized. The fans slowly started to come 00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:53.460 back. But the lineup instability, that revolving 00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:56.160 door from the early days. It started to creak 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.160 open again. Right. We have to talk about the 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:00.519 drummer, Alex Lopez. He had been there since 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.299 2006. He was the backbone of their sound. He 00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:06.359 was a total pillar of the band. But he left in 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:09.299 April 2022. And he was replaced by Ernie Iniguez. 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.339 Who had actually done session drums on Become 00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:13.500 the Hunter. Because Alex hadn't performed on 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:15.720 that record due to personal reasons. So Alex 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.220 is out. Ernie is in. The machine just keeps moving. 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:20.839 But then we get to the very recent history. And 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:23.519 this is where things get a little uncertain again. 00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:28.559 We are looking at late 2025 and early 2026. This 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.319 is the significant current event. Chris Garza. 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.700 The rhythm guitarist. The guy with the long hair 00:24:33.700 --> 00:24:38.480 who was there in 2002 before. I don't remember. 00:24:38.819 --> 00:24:41.660 Exactly. In December 2025, just a couple of months 00:24:41.660 --> 00:24:45.339 ago, Chris Garza announced a hiatus. A hiatus. 00:24:45.819 --> 00:24:48.240 Not a quit, but a break. Right. But in the music 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.500 world, hiatus can mean many bitty different things. 00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:52.960 And then just a month later, in January 2026, 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:55.880 they announced Ian Way. From the technical death 00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:58.380 metal band Surruption. Right. Ian was announced 00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:00.240 as his touring replacement. So let's look at 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.240 the stage tonight. As we sit here in February 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:05.720 2026, if Suicide Silence plays a show who is 00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:08.069 actually on stage. You have Mark Hallman, who 00:25:08.069 --> 00:25:11.430 joined in 2005. Dan Kenney joined 2009. Eddie 00:25:11.430 --> 00:25:14.450 Hermita joined 2013. Ernie Iniguez joined 2022. 00:25:14.930 --> 00:25:18.069 And Ian Way joined 2026. That means the original 00:25:18.069 --> 00:25:21.190 2002 lineup is now entirely absent from the stage. 00:25:21.430 --> 00:25:23.750 That is a heavy realization. It really makes 00:25:23.750 --> 00:25:26.430 you think about what a band actually is. Is it 00:25:26.430 --> 00:25:29.950 the people? Or is it just the songs? Before we 00:25:29.950 --> 00:25:32.309 get too philosophical about that, I want to dig 00:25:32.309 --> 00:25:35.890 into the musical DNA of this band. Because in 00:25:35.890 --> 00:25:38.109 part seven of our outline, we talk about how 00:25:38.109 --> 00:25:41.329 that controversial new metal album from 2017 00:25:41.329 --> 00:25:43.950 might not have been as random as people thought. 00:25:44.190 --> 00:25:46.829 This is where it gets truly fascinating if you 00:25:46.829 --> 00:25:49.710 really analyze their roots. Suicide Silence is 00:25:49.710 --> 00:25:51.930 obviously known as deathcore, deathmetal growls, 00:25:51.990 --> 00:25:55.230 grindcore speed, mathcore time signatures. Sure. 00:25:55.769 --> 00:25:57.890 But that is just the surface. But the band has 00:25:57.890 --> 00:26:00.670 always championed nu metal, right? Yes. Always. 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.049 Wait, really? Because nu metal bands like Limp 00:26:03.049 --> 00:26:05.630 Bizkit and Korn was kind of the enemy of true 00:26:05.630 --> 00:26:07.789 metal for a while in the 2000s. It was heavily 00:26:07.789 --> 00:26:10.529 despised. It was considered fake metal by the 00:26:10.529 --> 00:26:12.930 hardcore kids. Right. But Chris Garza explicitly 00:26:12.930 --> 00:26:15.789 talked about this. He shared an anecdote about 00:26:15.789 --> 00:26:18.549 being at hardcore shows in 2002 wearing Korn 00:26:18.549 --> 00:26:20.390 shirts and having long hair. And that wasn't 00:26:20.390 --> 00:26:22.269 cool in that scene. He said people would literally 00:26:22.269 --> 00:26:26.240 kick at him in the mosh pit. It was a big no 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.839 -no in the hardcore scene. But he didn't care. 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:31.740 He loved Korn Deftone's Slipknot just as much 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:33.819 as he loved Cannibal Corpse. So when they made 00:26:33.819 --> 00:26:36.240 that self -titled album in 2017, that sounded 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.900 like Korn did. It wasn't them selling out or 00:26:38.900 --> 00:26:41.119 trying to jump on a trend. New metal wasn't even 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:43.839 trendy in 2017 anyway. It was actually part of 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.319 their DNA surfacing naturally. Exactly. It was 00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:48.339 an honest expression of their deepest influences, 00:26:48.500 --> 00:26:50.700 even if the fans totally didn't want to hear 00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:53.940 it. That really recontextualizes that whole failure, 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.599 doesn't it? It wasn't a cynical cash grab. If 00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:59.099 anything, it was artistic bravery. It was them 00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:02.180 saying, this is also who we are. The execution 00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:04.660 might have been flawed or the timing wrong, but 00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:06.880 the intent was pure. It's the curse of branding. 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.660 You become a brand suicide, silence the heavy 00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:13.259 band, and you have to deliver the goods. If McDonald's 00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:15.339 suddenly started selling sushi, people would 00:27:15.339 --> 00:27:17.559 be confused even if the sushi was honest and 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:19.950 high quality. That is a perfect analogy. The 00:27:19.950 --> 00:27:22.549 consumer recoils when the brand promise is broken. 00:27:22.750 --> 00:27:26.289 So looking back at this entire saga, from the 00:27:26.289 --> 00:27:28.849 Family Guy demo to becoming one of the big four, 00:27:28.950 --> 00:27:32.630 losing Mitch, finding Eddie crashing with the 00:27:32.630 --> 00:27:35.180 self -titled and rebuilding. It is a lot. What 00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:37.420 is the big takeaway here? For me, suicide silence 00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:40.259 represents the extreme volatility of the music 00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:42.680 industry. They experience the absolute highest 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.799 highs, award shows, charting albums, worldwide 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:49.539 tours, and the most tragic lows imaginable. And 00:27:49.539 --> 00:27:51.400 through it all, they show the constant struggle 00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:53.940 to balance artistic growth with fan expectations. 00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:56.920 It's a survival story at its core. It is. They 00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.359 clawed their way back to the top multiple times. 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:02.119 They simply refused to die. But I want to leave 00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:03.859 you, the listener, with a thought today. Yeah. 00:28:04.190 --> 00:28:06.789 We mentioned Chris Garza being on hiatus as of 00:28:06.789 --> 00:28:10.369 late 2025. With him gone even temporarily, the 00:28:10.369 --> 00:28:12.809 band has zero original members from their founding 00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:15.390 year on stage. It brings up the classic ship 00:28:15.390 --> 00:28:17.809 of Theseus paradox. Exactly. For those who skip 00:28:17.809 --> 00:28:19.730 philosophy class, if you have a wooden ship and 00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:22.130 over time you replace every single plank of wood, 00:28:22.289 --> 00:28:24.549 is it still the same ship? If you replace every 00:28:24.549 --> 00:28:26.509 single member of a band, is it still suicide 00:28:26.509 --> 00:28:30.089 silence? Or has suicide silence become an institution? 00:28:30.390 --> 00:28:33.890 An idea that is... Bigger than the actual individuals 00:28:33.890 --> 00:28:36.230 involved? I think the answer to that lies in 00:28:36.230 --> 00:28:38.950 the mosh pit. How so? As long as a song like 00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:41.430 Unanswered gets played and the crowd still moves, 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:44.990 maybe that's the only answer that matters. The 00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:47.930 spirit of the music outlives the musicians. That's 00:28:47.930 --> 00:28:51.329 deep. But I think you're right. The name Suicide 00:28:51.329 --> 00:28:54.130 Silence belongs to the fans now just as much 00:28:54.130 --> 00:28:56.509 as it belongs to the band. That is exactly where 00:28:56.509 --> 00:28:59.009 we can leave it for this deep dive. Thank you 00:28:59.009 --> 00:29:01.089 for listening. Thank you for sticking with us 00:29:01.089 --> 00:29:03.210 through the tragedy and the triumph. It was a 00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:05.589 heavy one. Go blast the cleansing today and appreciate 00:29:05.589 --> 00:29:07.609 the history behind the noise. We will catch you 00:29:07.609 --> 00:29:09.690 on the next one. Stay curious and stay heavy.