WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.220 OK, so let's unpack this. When we usually sit 00:00:03.220 --> 00:00:05.519 down to talk about the absolute titans of an 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:07.799 industry, we have been conditioned to look for 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:10.359 the physical outliers. Oh, absolutely. You know, 00:00:10.380 --> 00:00:12.099 in the tech world, it is the billionaires with 00:00:12.099 --> 00:00:14.980 the space programs. In sports, it's the genetic 00:00:14.980 --> 00:00:17.399 freaks who run the 40 -yard dash in four seconds 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:21.000 flat. And in professional wrestling. In wrestling, 00:00:21.100 --> 00:00:24.219 it is almost exclusively the land of giants. 00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:27.480 I mean, you were looking for the 6 '5 guys carved 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:30.500 out of a granite, the Hulks, the Rocks, the Roman 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:33.780 Reigns types. Exactly. But today, we are flipping 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:35.960 that script entirely for you. We are looking 00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:39.119 at a resume that is just staggering. It spans 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:43.039 Ring of Honor, WWE, Impact. And AEW. A truly 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:45.159 massive footprint. Yeah, and we are looking at 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:47.200 a creative mind that has fundamentally shaped 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:49.259 what modern wrestling television looks like. 00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:51.740 And we are talking about a guy who stands 5 '7 00:00:51.740 --> 00:00:54.119 on a good day. On a very good day in wrestling 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:56.380 boots. Right, a guy who was once most famous 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:58.979 for crying while singing a love ballad in the 00:00:58.979 --> 00:01:00.439 middle of a wrestling ring. And wearing nail 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:03.020 polish. You really cannot forget the chipped 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:05.739 black nail polish. Never forget the nail polish. 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:09.500 We are talking about the zombie princess himself. 00:01:10.219 --> 00:01:12.379 Jimmy Jacobs. Or Christopher Scoville, if you 00:01:12.379 --> 00:01:13.959 want to get government about it. Yes, Christopher 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:16.500 Scoville. And honestly, looking at the source 00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:20.439 material for this deep dive, it feels less like 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:23.239 a standard wrestling biography and more like 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:25.900 a case study in pure survival. It really is a 00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:28.659 masterclass in adaptation. And that's the mission 00:01:28.659 --> 00:01:31.340 for our deep dive today. We aren't just recounting 00:01:31.340 --> 00:01:33.739 match results here. We are trying to figure out 00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:36.920 how a teenager from Grand Rapids, Michigan, who 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.040 started out moving furniture for a living, ended 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.760 up writing specifically for the biggest wrestling 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:44.159 company on Earth. Only he fired for taking a 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:46.500 selfie. Exactly. Fired for a selfie and somehow 00:01:46.500 --> 00:01:48.540 coming out of it with more leverage and buzz 00:01:48.540 --> 00:01:51.219 than he had before. It is the art of failing 00:01:51.219 --> 00:01:54.040 upwards that isn't actually failure at all. It 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:56.079 is cow... Calculated reinvention. So let's go 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:58.879 back to those Grand Rapids days. Because looking 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:01.299 at the timeline, the hustle starts terrifyingly 00:02:01.299 --> 00:02:05.040 early. We're talking, what, 1999? May 1999 is 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:07.680 the official in -ring debut. He is 15 years old. 00:02:07.819 --> 00:02:10.020 15. I mean, at 15, I was just trying to figure 00:02:10.020 --> 00:02:12.060 out how to get my learner's permit. And he is 00:02:12.060 --> 00:02:15.199 taking bumps in a wrestling ring. He is. He's 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:18.840 losing to a guy named Michael Stryker. But the 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.240 fascinating part isn't necessarily the wrestling 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.379 matches themselves at that age. It is the context 00:02:24.379 --> 00:02:26.780 of how he got there. Because he didn't just walk 00:02:26.780 --> 00:02:29.080 in, right? No, he didn't just walk into a wrestling 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:31.520 school and pay tuition. He actually started in 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:34.439 1998 as a general assistant for a promotion called 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:36.840 Pro Wrestling Worldwide. Doing basically whatever 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.259 they needed. Everything. He was the webmaster. 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.979 He did color commentary. He was a referee. He 00:02:41.979 --> 00:02:43.919 was the kid who just desperately wanted to be 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:46.199 in the room. He was making himself indispensable. 00:02:46.539 --> 00:02:48.939 And that is a theme. you will see for the next 00:02:48.939 --> 00:02:52.199 20 years of his career. He figures out what a 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.080 company needs and he becomes that thing. But 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.840 the reality check here is brutal. The sources 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.319 highlight that while he is doing this on weekends, 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:03.460 living the dream, so to speak, his Monday through 00:03:03.460 --> 00:03:06.460 Friday was strictly manual labor. Yeah, he was 00:03:06.460 --> 00:03:08.960 a furniture mover. That is not easy work. That 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.039 is blowing out your back. Moving armoires and 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.879 sleeper sofas up three flights of stairs. Only 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:17.419 to go to a VFW hall on Saturday and get thrown 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:20.080 on your head. It is wild to think about. But 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.780 it builds a specific kind of grit. And you see 00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:26.000 that grit manifest really early on with his run 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.340 in IWA Mid -South. This is where the polite kid 00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:31.960 who is willing to referee disappears and the 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:33.819 disruptor shows up. Oh, you're thinking of the 00:03:33.819 --> 00:03:36.080 trash can incident. I am absolutely thinking 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.400 of the crash tan incident, November 26, 2005. 00:03:38.780 --> 00:03:41.659 The story is just wild. So let's set the scene 00:03:41.659 --> 00:03:43.379 for you. He is the champion at this point, right? 00:03:43.500 --> 00:03:46.719 He is holding the IWA Mid -South Heavyweight 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:48.979 Championship. That is the top prize in the company. 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.319 Okay. But independent wrestling is, well, it 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.199 can be very volatile. Shows got canceled that 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.240 weekend, and the promoter didn't have his pay. 00:03:57.689 --> 00:03:59.750 The classic indie promoter line, I'll get you 00:03:59.750 --> 00:04:02.330 next time, kid. Right. And most guys in that 00:04:02.330 --> 00:04:04.409 position would just grumble, maybe complain to 00:04:04.409 --> 00:04:07.150 their friends and ultimately take the loss. But 00:04:07.150 --> 00:04:11.409 Jacobs, he goes to a completely different promotion. 00:04:11.830 --> 00:04:16.029 Yes. AEW, he walks to the ring with the IWA belt 00:04:16.029 --> 00:04:18.370 and he literally throws it into a garbage can. 00:04:18.529 --> 00:04:20.449 In front of a live crowd. In front of a crowd 00:04:20.449 --> 00:04:22.629 on a live microphone. That is burning a bridge 00:04:22.629 --> 00:04:25.209 with napalm right there. Basically saying, pay 00:04:25.209 --> 00:04:28.149 me or your belt is trash. It is a massive power 00:04:28.149 --> 00:04:30.430 move. It established him as someone who understood 00:04:30.430 --> 00:04:32.829 his value. He wasn't just happy to be there anymore. 00:04:33.129 --> 00:04:35.810 He demanded his worth. Exactly. And crucially, 00:04:35.870 --> 00:04:38.889 he could back it up in the ring. Around the same 00:04:38.889 --> 00:04:41.209 time he is having these insane ladder matches 00:04:41.209 --> 00:04:43.850 with guys like Delirious, he is winning the light 00:04:43.850 --> 00:04:46.089 heavyweight title. So he had the athletic chops. 00:04:46.350 --> 00:04:48.949 He was proving he could do the high -risk athleticism, 00:04:48.949 --> 00:04:51.230 but he also had the guts to play the political 00:04:51.230 --> 00:04:54.790 game. But if we're being honest, the Jimmy Jacobs 00:04:54.790 --> 00:04:57.949 that lives in most fans' heads, the version that 00:04:57.949 --> 00:05:00.589 really proved he was a creative genius, is his 00:05:00.589 --> 00:05:03.790 run in Ring of Honor. Specifically, the emo era. 00:05:04.569 --> 00:05:07.560 At least he's angels. Yes. Now, for anyone who 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:09.839 wasn't watching wrestling in the mid -2000s, 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:11.600 you really have to understand the landscape. 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.600 This was the era of work rate. Ring of Honor 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:17.420 was all about who could wrestle the most athletic, 00:05:17.699 --> 00:05:20.339 hard -hitting Japanese -style match. And then 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:22.459 here comes Jimmy Jacobs, and he doesn't care 00:05:22.459 --> 00:05:24.439 about the belt. He cares about the girl. It was 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.220 a brilliant subversion of the entire genre. You 00:05:27.220 --> 00:05:29.779 had his tag team partner, BJ Whitmer, who was 00:05:29.779 --> 00:05:32.360 this rugged, hard -hitting, traditional wrestler. 00:05:32.660 --> 00:05:35.259 And then you had Jacobs, who was portraying this... 00:05:35.999 --> 00:05:39.620 lovesick, vulnerable, emotionally unstable character. 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.399 Just completely obsessed with their manager Lacey. 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:44.939 Right. And we have to talk about the ballad of 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:46.959 Lacey. We have to talk about the music video. 00:05:47.180 --> 00:05:50.040 It is iconic cringe. It really is. It's him singing. 00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:53.540 Noticeably off key. Yeah. With eyeliner running 00:05:53.540 --> 00:05:55.439 down his face. It was just so different from 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:57.279 everything else on the show. And that is exactly 00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:59.720 why it worked. It connected with a demographic 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:02.819 that wrestling usually ignored. The emo kids, 00:06:03.139 --> 00:06:05.939 the outcasts who felt those big, messy feelings. 00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:07.819 Because wrestling is usually just about being 00:06:07.819 --> 00:06:10.019 tough. Exactly. But this wasn't about being tough. 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:12.240 It was about being heartbroken. But of course, 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:13.800 because it is professional wrestling, it couldn't 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:15.300 end with a wedding. It had to end in violence. 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:18.560 Which brings us to the breakup with BJ Whitmer. 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:22.129 Which leads us to Detroit. March 31st, 2007, 00:06:22.449 --> 00:06:25.569 the steel cage match. People still talk about 00:06:25.569 --> 00:06:27.329 this match. The Pro Wrestling Torch actually 00:06:27.329 --> 00:06:29.970 called it an instant classic, but I want to focus 00:06:29.970 --> 00:06:32.310 on the cost. Because we talk a lot about his 00:06:32.310 --> 00:06:34.550 creative genius, but sometimes we forget the 00:06:34.550 --> 00:06:37.050 physical toll of this business. Yeah, the damage 00:06:37.050 --> 00:06:39.189 report from this match is brutal. Jacobs wins 00:06:39.189 --> 00:06:41.389 this match, but look at the notes. I know he 00:06:41.389 --> 00:06:44.180 lost a tooth. He lost a tooth. And he tore his 00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:46.360 ACL. During the match? He had a pre -existing 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:48.720 issue, but the match completely blew it out. 00:06:48.779 --> 00:06:52.180 And he finished the match on that torn ACL. Plus, 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:55.779 BJ Whitmer suffered a neck injury. They effectively 00:06:55.779 --> 00:06:58.939 destroyed their bodies to pay off a soap opera 00:06:58.939 --> 00:07:01.660 storyline. That is the juxtaposition that makes 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:04.439 Jacob so interesting to me. He is singing love 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:07.000 songs one minute. and then locking himself in 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.860 a steel cage and tearing his knee apart the next. 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.339 And look at how he handled the injury. He didn't 00:07:12.339 --> 00:07:14.819 just disappear to rehab, he kept making vignettes. 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.480 He kept the story alive on YouTube. Right, this 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.879 is 2007. Exactly. He understood that in the internet 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.079 age, which was still early for wrestling back 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:25.980 then, content never sleeps. Which sets the stage 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:29.160 for his return. And if the Lacey era was emo, 00:07:29.379 --> 00:07:31.980 the next phase was basically a horror movie. 00:07:32.139 --> 00:07:35.079 The age of the fall. Even the name sounds ominous. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:38.339 This is arguably the absolute peak of his influence 00:07:38.339 --> 00:07:41.439 in Ring of Honor. He spent months teasing this 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.620 thing called Project 161 on cryptic blogs. Doing 00:07:44.620 --> 00:07:46.759 viral marketing before everyone in wrestling 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:49.000 was doing it. It's very ahead of his time. And 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:50.699 then at the Man Up pay -per -view in September 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:54.300 2007, he finally returns. With Tyler Black, who 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:58.220 we now know as WWE superstar Seth Rollins, and 00:07:58.220 --> 00:08:00.959 the NecroBitcher. Right. But it wasn't just a 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:02.980 standard wrestling run -in. They attacked the 00:08:02.980 --> 00:08:05.660 Briscoe brothers and they hung Jay Briscoe upside 00:08:05.660 --> 00:08:07.860 down from the rigging above the ring. The visual 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:10.319 is just burned into my brain. Jay Briscoe is 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:13.399 bleeding profusely. Yeah. And the blood is dripping 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.300 down onto Jimmy Jacobs, who is wearing this pristine 00:08:16.300 --> 00:08:18.519 white outfit. And Jacobs is cutting a promo, 00:08:18.620 --> 00:08:20.600 essentially bathing in the blood. It was grotesque. 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:22.920 It was almost too much, wasn't it? Didn't Ring 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:24.779 of Honor actually pull the footage? They did. 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:26.860 They removed it from the initial broadcast because 00:08:26.860 --> 00:08:29.259 it was considered way too graphic for their pay 00:08:29.259 --> 00:08:32.379 -per -view provider. But... And here's the ultimate 00:08:32.379 --> 00:08:35.759 business lesson. That censorship made it legendary. 00:08:36.220 --> 00:08:38.539 Because suddenly everyone had to see it. The 00:08:38.539 --> 00:08:41.700 buzz was so massive that fans demanded to see 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:44.080 it. Ring of Honor eventually had to release it 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.860 on their video wire, and they put a special blood 00:08:46.860 --> 00:08:49.500 edit on the DVD release. He turned controversy 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:52.500 into cash. again he created a moment that you 00:08:52.500 --> 00:08:54.639 simply couldn't look away from and the character 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:56.759 work during this time was so layered remember 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:59.500 the cry jimmy cry chance oh absolutely yeah this 00:08:59.500 --> 00:09:01.279 was after at least he finally left him for austin 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.019 aries right april 2008 jacobs isn't just angry 00:09:05.659 --> 00:09:07.759 He portrays a complete mental breakdown in the 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.080 ring. He's hitting himself in the head with his 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:12.519 trademark railroad spike. That spike was such 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.080 a grim prop. It really was a weapon of self -destruction. 00:09:15.179 --> 00:09:17.360 The fans are throwing streamers at him, chanting 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:20.559 cry Jimmy cry. It was humiliation as performance 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:23.539 art. Which is so rare in wrestling. It is. He 00:09:23.539 --> 00:09:25.720 wasn't afraid to look weak, which ironically 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:28.460 made the character so much stronger. He really 00:09:28.460 --> 00:09:30.820 deconstructed the whole idea of the cool heel. 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:34.639 He was just a mess. A very dangerous mess. So 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:36.519 fast forward a bit. He leaves Ring of Honor, 00:09:36.620 --> 00:09:39.299 comes back, does the SCUM faction with Kevin 00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:41.980 Steen and Steve Carino. But I want to jump to 00:09:41.980 --> 00:09:46.100 the decade because this feels like the most ironic 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:49.080 chapter in hindsight. The decade formed in 2013. 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:52.519 This was Jacobs, his old rival B .J. Whitmer 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.370 enemies turned allies and Roderick Strong. And 00:09:55.370 --> 00:09:56.889 the whole gimmick was that they were the guardians 00:09:56.889 --> 00:09:59.289 of Ring of Honor. They were bitter that guys 00:09:59.289 --> 00:10:01.690 were using the company as a stepping stone to 00:10:01.690 --> 00:10:05.090 go to WWE or TNA. They were attacking the sellouts. 00:10:05.090 --> 00:10:07.009 They were hazing the younger guys, the young 00:10:07.009 --> 00:10:09.490 boys, telling them they hadn't paid their dues. 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:11.509 Which is just hilarious because where does Jimmy 00:10:11.509 --> 00:10:13.490 go next? To the biggest corporate machine of 00:10:13.490 --> 00:10:16.529 them all, March 2015, Jimmy Jacobs joins the 00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:19.389 WWE creative team. The anti -establishment punk 00:10:19.389 --> 00:10:22.179 rocker puts on a tie. Well, knowing Jimmy, probably 00:10:22.179 --> 00:10:24.879 a scarf and a vest, but you get the point. It 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:27.179 shocked a lot of people. But when you look at 00:10:27.179 --> 00:10:29.740 his body of work, it makes perfect sense. He 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:32.860 had spent 15 years proving he could tell long 00:10:32.860 --> 00:10:35.000 -term stories that engage people emotionally. 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:39.039 WWE needed writers who understood wrestling logic. 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.399 And by all accounts, he was really good at it. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:43.620 He wasn't just fetching coffee in Stanford. He 00:10:43.620 --> 00:10:46.259 was the guy behind the list of Jericho, right? 00:10:46.340 --> 00:10:48.679 He was instrumental in that Chris Jericho run, 00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:51.679 yes. He brought that weird, slightly offbeat 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:53.860 comedic timing to the biggest stage possible. 00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:56.500 He was thriving in that corporate environment. 00:10:56.860 --> 00:10:59.100 Until the selfie. Probably the most expensive 00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:01.600 photo in wrestling history. So break this down 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:03.440 for the listener who might not know the backstage 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.750 politics here. Why did a simple picture get him 00:11:07.750 --> 00:11:11.129 fired from his dream job? Context is key here. 00:11:11.230 --> 00:11:14.769 It is October 2017. The Bullet Club, this incredibly 00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:17.350 popular faction from New Japan and Ring of Honor, 00:11:17.490 --> 00:11:21.190 decides to stage an invasion of WWE Raw. Kind 00:11:21.190 --> 00:11:23.990 of playing off the old WCW invasion angles. Exactly. 00:11:24.090 --> 00:11:26.590 They drive a limo outside the arena where Raw 00:11:26.590 --> 00:11:28.870 is happening. They are shouting on megaphones. 00:11:28.870 --> 00:11:31.210 It's a massive publicity stunt for the indie 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:33.580 guys. They are technically the competition. Right. 00:11:33.860 --> 00:11:37.559 And Jimmy Jacobs, who is employed by WWE as a 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:40.200 writer, goes outside, sees his friends because 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.139 he knows all these guys from the Indies and takes 00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:45.820 a photo with them. And then he posted on Instagram. 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.279 And the powers that be did not like that at all. 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:50.340 The Wrestling Observer reported he was let go 00:11:50.340 --> 00:11:53.580 specifically for that post. It was seen as fraternizing 00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:56.679 with the enemy during a hostile act. Most people, 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:59.200 if they get fired from WWE, they go quiet. They 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.580 apologize. They try to get back in the good graces 00:12:01.580 --> 00:12:03.720 of management. What does the zombie princess 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:06.580 do? He leans all the way in. This is his absolute 00:12:06.580 --> 00:12:09.240 superpower. He realizes, OK, I'm the guy who 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:11.259 got fired for the selfie. That is my new gimmick. 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.379 He literally showed up at a Ring of Honor show 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:16.960 days later. Global Wars Chicago, October 15th, 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:19.590 just days after. the news broke. He appears in 00:12:19.590 --> 00:12:22.509 the crowd and what does he do? He takes a selfie. 00:12:22.610 --> 00:12:24.730 Takes a selfie with the fans. The place just 00:12:24.730 --> 00:12:27.830 explodes. He monetized his own firing immediately. 00:12:28.250 --> 00:12:30.549 He even started selling t -shirts that just said 00:12:30.549 --> 00:12:33.169 unprofessional. That is brilliant marketing. 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:35.450 It's blurring the lines between the real person 00:12:35.450 --> 00:12:38.769 and the character once again. And it signaled 00:12:38.769 --> 00:12:40.750 to the rest of the industry that I am available 00:12:40.750 --> 00:12:42.850 and I am the most talked about guy in the room 00:12:42.850 --> 00:12:46.850 right now. So he bounces from WWE to Impact Wrestling. 00:12:47.419 --> 00:12:49.299 And this is where his role really shifts, right? 00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:51.580 He's not just an onscreen talent anymore. He 00:12:51.580 --> 00:12:54.419 had a brief onscreen run managing Congo Kong, 00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:57.919 but the real value was backstage. From 2017 to 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:00.279 2023, he was a key member of the Impact creative 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:03.179 team. He was helping format the show, writing 00:13:03.179 --> 00:13:05.720 long -term television arcs. And then he jumped 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.620 to AEW in June 2023. As a coach and producer. 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:12.039 Can we clarify that for the listener? What does 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:14.460 a producer actually do in modern wrestling? Because 00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:16.700 I think people imagine they just hold the camera 00:13:16.700 --> 00:13:19.399 or something. No, in wrestling, a producer, sometimes 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:21.360 called an agent, is the person who helps the 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.919 wrestlers structure the actual match. They make 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:25.879 sure the timing is right to hit the TV commercial 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:29.320 breaks. Ah, so pacing the live broadcast. Right. 00:13:29.379 --> 00:13:31.840 They help bridge the gap between what the writers 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:34.120 want creatively and what the wrestlers can actually 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.279 physically execute in the ring. It requires a 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.019 massive amount of wrestling IQ. the director 00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:42.659 of the scene precisely and think about the journey 00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:45.360 there he started as the 15 year old kids substituting 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.779 as a referee now he's the guy in the headset 00:13:47.779 --> 00:13:49.559 telling the main event stars when to hit their 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:51.899 finish it's a complete evolution and he was even 00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:53.840 mentoring people way back in the ring of honor 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:56.220 days wasn't he he wasn't entirely new to him 00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:58.279 he was during the decade storyline we mentioned 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:00.440 earlier they had this young boy character colby 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:04.409 carino steve carino's son Jacobs was his on -screen 00:14:04.409 --> 00:14:06.809 mentor, but the sources say that was really art 00:14:06.809 --> 00:14:09.409 imitating life. He was guiding the next generation 00:14:09.409 --> 00:14:11.809 even while he was still an active wrestler. Always 00:14:11.809 --> 00:14:14.490 looking at the big picture. So, bringing us up 00:14:14.490 --> 00:14:18.870 to the now. He left AEW in late 2024, but as 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:21.029 his nickname suggests, you can't kill a zombie. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:24.559 He popped up again recently. May 2024, he returned 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.519 to Ring of Honor, which is now owned by Tony 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.460 Khan and AEW, to wrestle Satnam Singh. Satnam 00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:32.279 Singh is literally over seven feet tall. He makes 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:34.919 Jimmy look like a toddler. Which brings us completely 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:38.799 full circle. The 5 '7 underdog versus the absolute 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.840 giant. Of course, Jacobs lost. He got destroyed. 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:45.419 But that wasn't the point. The point was that 00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:47.899 he was out there at all. Decades after his debut. 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:51.360 After throwing the trash can, after hanging Jay 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.200 Briscoe upside down, after the WWE writers room, 00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:56.820 he was still willing to go out there and take 00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:59.039 bumps for a giant. It's actually kind of inspiring 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.679 when you lay it all out like that. It's this 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:03.879 refusal to be categorized. If you ask him, am 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.740 I a wrestler, a manager, a writer, a producer? 00:15:08.179 --> 00:15:10.840 The answer is just yes. And if you look at the 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:13.120 trajectory, it's a story about the evolution 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:15.850 of influence. In the beginning, he had to scream 00:15:15.850 --> 00:15:19.049 and bleed and jump off ladders to get anyone 00:15:19.049 --> 00:15:21.429 to pay attention to him. The blunt force trauma 00:15:21.429 --> 00:15:24.070 approach to getting over. Right. Then he learned 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:25.990 how to manipulate emotions with the Lacey era. 00:15:26.149 --> 00:15:27.990 Then he learned how to manipulate the wrestling 00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:30.250 media with the age of the fall blogs and the 00:15:30.250 --> 00:15:32.909 selfie. And finally, he became the architect 00:15:32.909 --> 00:15:35.610 helping other people become stars. He went from 00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:38.049 the kid moving the furniture to the guy designing 00:15:38.049 --> 00:15:40.690 the house. That is a fantastic way to put it. 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.539 And he proved that you don't need to be 6 '4 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.139 and 250 pounds to change the wrestling business. 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:49.659 You just need to be smarter, louder, and willing 00:15:49.659 --> 00:15:51.759 to take the risk that everyone else is too scared 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.360 to take. Like hanging your opponent upside down 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:56.460 and letting their blood drip on your white coat. 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:58.620 Or taking a selfie with the competition when 00:15:58.620 --> 00:16:00.720 your billionaire boss is watching. It really 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:02.779 makes you wonder about the nature of controversy, 00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:06.080 doesn't it? We're so often taught to avoid scandals. 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.080 Keep your head down. Do your job. Don't make 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.860 waves. But look at Jacobs. Every single time 00:16:11.860 --> 00:16:14.480 he broke a rule throwing the belt, the graphic 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.480 violence, the selfie, his stock actually went 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.259 up. So maybe in the entertainment business, controversy 00:16:20.259 --> 00:16:23.639 isn't a mistake. Maybe it is a carefully cultivated 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:27.320 currency. If you know how to spend it. And Jimmy 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.840 Jacobs has always known the exact exchange rate. 00:16:30.019 --> 00:16:31.879 Definitely something for you to think about the 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:34.059 next time you see someone canceled on your timeline. 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.059 Maybe they aren't ruined. Maybe they're just 00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.279 setting up their next angle. Thanks for taking 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:39.860 this deep dive with us. See you next time.