WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome back to the deep dive either today. We 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.820 are Well, we're not just unpacking a standard 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:08.500 biography today. No, definitely not. We are essentially 00:00:08.500 --> 00:00:14.580 looking at a a Glitch in the matrix of political 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:16.379 history That's a great way to put it because 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:19.379 we have this stack of documents here that frankly 00:00:19.379 --> 00:00:21.820 just shouldn't belong to the same person Right. 00:00:21.820 --> 00:00:24.260 The variety is staggering. Yeah. I mean we have 00:00:24.260 --> 00:00:26.239 naval service records from the absolute height 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:28.870 of the first world war we have dusty minutes 00:00:28.870 --> 00:00:31.510 from the Auckland City Council in the 1960s. 00:00:31.589 --> 00:00:33.509 And then we have these personal letters that 00:00:33.509 --> 00:00:36.950 read less like a memoir and more like a psychological 00:00:36.950 --> 00:00:39.429 thriller. They really do. So we are unpacking 00:00:39.429 --> 00:00:42.270 the life of a man named George Frederick Harry 00:00:42.270 --> 00:00:44.850 Forsythe. It is a life that really just defies 00:00:44.850 --> 00:00:47.380 categorization. Like, if you pitched this as 00:00:47.380 --> 00:00:49.240 a movie script, the producers would tell you 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:51.340 to pick a genre. Right. Is this a war movie or 00:00:51.340 --> 00:00:53.840 a political drama? Exactly. Because it feels 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.039 like three different movies stitched together. 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:58.740 You have the war movie, the working class hero 00:00:58.740 --> 00:01:03.509 drama, and then this incredibly tense... political 00:01:03.509 --> 00:01:06.069 tragedy at the end. Yeah. And the reason we are 00:01:06.069 --> 00:01:08.629 doing this, the mission for this deep dive isn't 00:01:08.629 --> 00:01:11.349 just to recite dates. No. Or list the battles 00:01:11.349 --> 00:01:13.590 he fought in, though, you know, those are incredibly 00:01:13.590 --> 00:01:16.810 impressive. Very impressive. But we want to understand 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:21.329 a very specific, very painful human dilemma. 00:01:21.969 --> 00:01:24.989 The tension. The tension, yes. Between loyalty 00:01:24.989 --> 00:01:27.689 to a team, whether that's a political party, 00:01:27.810 --> 00:01:31.019 a trade union or the Royal Navy. and loyalty 00:01:31.019 --> 00:01:34.000 to your own rigid personal code of conduct. Because 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.239 Forsyth is the ultimate test case for that, isn't 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:38.900 he? He is. He's what happens when you completely 00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:42.219 refuse to compromise, even when that refusal 00:01:42.219 --> 00:01:45.040 threatens to destroy literally everything you 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.780 have spent a lifetime building. That is the key 00:01:47.780 --> 00:01:49.680 theme we need to keep coming back to for you 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:52.000 listening today. This is a man who fits that 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:54.180 Forrest Gump archetype. Right, popping up everywhere. 00:01:54.379 --> 00:01:56.140 Yeah, he keeps popping up in the middle of these 00:01:56.140 --> 00:01:59.260 massive historical events, but he doesn't have 00:01:59.260 --> 00:02:02.019 that naive go -with -the -flow attitude that 00:02:02.019 --> 00:02:04.359 we associate with Gump. Definitely not. Forsythe 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.780 is sharp, he's difficult, he's gritty, and he 00:02:07.780 --> 00:02:10.379 creates friction wherever he goes. He's the Forrest 00:02:10.379 --> 00:02:13.590 Gump who would... argue with the bus driver about 00:02:13.590 --> 00:02:16.169 the route. Yes. And then file a formal complaint 00:02:16.169 --> 00:02:17.870 about the suspension system on the bus. That 00:02:17.870 --> 00:02:19.969 is a perfect description, and he would probably 00:02:19.969 --> 00:02:22.229 organize all the passengers into a union before 00:02:22.229 --> 00:02:25.490 they even got off. So true. So let's look at 00:02:25.490 --> 00:02:27.849 the sources we have. We have the military archives, 00:02:27.870 --> 00:02:30.409 which are intense. Yeah. We have the union records, 00:02:30.490 --> 00:02:33.009 which span nearly half a century. And we have 00:02:33.009 --> 00:02:35.569 the political fallout reports from the New Zealand 00:02:35.569 --> 00:02:38.569 Labor Party. And just as a quick reminder for 00:02:38.569 --> 00:02:40.889 you listening, when we dive into the politics, 00:02:41.169 --> 00:02:44.370 left -wing, right -wing, AOP, we aren't taking 00:02:44.370 --> 00:02:46.169 sides here. Right. We're just reporting what 00:02:46.169 --> 00:02:47.909 the sources say. Exactly. We're just looking 00:02:47.909 --> 00:02:49.930 at the historical record impartially. But looking 00:02:49.930 --> 00:02:52.310 at all this paper... Where do we even start with 00:02:52.310 --> 00:02:54.169 a resume like this? You have to start with the 00:02:54.169 --> 00:02:56.189 noise. The noise. Yeah, you have to start with 00:02:56.189 --> 00:02:58.990 the sheer industrial violence of his youth. Because 00:02:58.990 --> 00:03:01.909 everything George Forsyth becomes later, the 00:03:01.909 --> 00:03:04.789 rigid disciplinarian, the stubborn city counselor, 00:03:05.430 --> 00:03:08.030 the man who yells at the mayor, it's all forged 00:03:08.030 --> 00:03:11.800 in the North Sea between 1915 and 1918. Okay, 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:13.939 let's set the scene. He was born in England in 00:03:13.939 --> 00:03:16.159 1898. Right. So when the First World War breaks 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.740 out, he is just a kid. Barely a teenager. And 00:03:18.740 --> 00:03:20.939 he joins the Royal Navy. And I want to pause 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.300 on the Royal Navy part because it's vital for 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:24.840 you to understand the culture he's entering. 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.340 It's strict. Beyond strict. This isn't a democratic 00:03:28.340 --> 00:03:30.580 organization where you vote on where the ship 00:03:30.580 --> 00:03:32.939 goes. No, it's the ultimate hierarchy. It is 00:03:32.939 --> 00:03:35.680 the absolute definition of do what you are told. 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:38.439 It is obey orders instantly, without question. 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:42.469 It is a machine. And Forsyth... Remarkably, thrives 00:03:42.469 --> 00:03:44.830 in it. He really does. His service record is 00:03:44.830 --> 00:03:46.949 baffling for someone so young. He isn't peeling 00:03:46.949 --> 00:03:49.330 potatoes in some quiet port down in Cornwall. 00:03:49.430 --> 00:03:51.870 No, he's in the thick of it. He is at Dogger 00:03:51.870 --> 00:03:55.210 Bank. He is at Heligoland. He is at the Zeebrugger 00:03:55.210 --> 00:03:57.710 raid. And the big one. The biggest one? The Battle 00:03:57.710 --> 00:04:00.889 of Jutland. Jutland, the largest naval battle 00:04:00.889 --> 00:04:03.909 of the First World War, the only time the full 00:04:03.909 --> 00:04:06.409 might of the British and German dreadnought fleets 00:04:06.409 --> 00:04:09.050 actually smashed into each other. We are talking 00:04:09.050 --> 00:04:13.310 about 250 massive ships. I was reading the accounts 00:04:13.310 --> 00:04:16.069 of Jutland to prep for this deep dive. And the 00:04:16.069 --> 00:04:18.829 scale is just hard to comprehend. It's apocalyptic. 00:04:19.009 --> 00:04:21.610 It really is. It's not just ships shooting at 00:04:21.610 --> 00:04:24.509 each other. It's the sky turning completely black 00:04:24.509 --> 00:04:27.290 from coal smoke. Ships exploding and vanishing 00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:30.009 in seconds. Thousands of men dying in minutes. 00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:32.990 And Forsyth is a teenager watching this happen. 00:04:33.329 --> 00:04:35.600 Insane. He is seeing what happens when discipline 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:37.819 holds, and he's seeing the catastrophic cost 00:04:37.819 --> 00:04:40.759 of error. When you survive Jutland, when you 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.540 watch a battle cruiser like the Queen Mary explode 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:46.360 because of a magazine detonation. Just vaporized. 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.680 Exactly. It wires your brain differently. It 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:52.199 instills a fatalism, sure, but also a terrifying 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:55.560 clarity. Stop caring about feelings or popularity. 00:04:55.699 --> 00:04:57.399 You just care about the rules. Right. You care 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:00.300 about, is the ship watertight? Is the gun loaded? 00:05:00.620 --> 00:05:02.980 Are we following procedure? Because if you don't 00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:05.980 follow procedure, you die or your friends die. 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:09.540 Exactly. So fast forward 40 years to a city council 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:12.180 meeting about a bus terminal. Right. Everyone 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:14.180 else is thinking about polling numbers or political 00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:17.720 favors. Forsyth is thinking. This is the procedure. 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.579 This is the right way. Why are you arguing with 00:05:19.579 --> 00:05:22.339 me? He brings that battleship mentality into 00:05:22.339 --> 00:05:25.379 a democratic debating chamber. Which is a complete 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:28.180 recipe for disaster. It really is. Yeah. But 00:05:28.180 --> 00:05:30.480 before we get to the politics, there is this 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:33.720 bizarre Hollywood moment in his service record. 00:05:33.860 --> 00:05:36.079 Oh, this is fascinating. It's almost too perfect. 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.620 He's serving on a destroyer, the HMS Sportive. 00:05:38.660 --> 00:05:41.050 That's right. It's 1918, towards the end of the 00:05:41.050 --> 00:05:43.569 war. He's off the coast of Syria and Palestine. 00:05:43.829 --> 00:05:46.310 And he meets Colonel T .E. Lawrence. Lawrence 00:05:46.310 --> 00:05:49.110 of Arabia. Yes. The sources completely confirm 00:05:49.110 --> 00:05:52.529 it. Forsyth, this young petty officer, a rank 00:05:52.529 --> 00:05:54.810 that is entirely about enforcing rules, by the 00:05:54.810 --> 00:05:57.829 way, bumps into Lawrence. The contrast is just 00:05:57.829 --> 00:05:59.610 wild. Now think about the contrast here for a 00:05:59.610 --> 00:06:02.870 second. Lawrence is the ultimate irregular. He's 00:06:02.870 --> 00:06:05.629 wearing robes. He's ignoring orders from headquarters 00:06:05.629 --> 00:06:08.569 in Cairo. He's waging a guerrilla war out in 00:06:08.569 --> 00:06:11.029 the desert. He is the embodiment of making it 00:06:11.029 --> 00:06:13.329 up as you go along. And Forsyth is the embodiment 00:06:13.329 --> 00:06:16.449 of the rule book. Exactly. Forsyth cited this 00:06:16.449 --> 00:06:18.990 as one of his most vivid memories. We don't have 00:06:18.990 --> 00:06:20.750 a transcript of the conversation, sadly. I wish 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:24.449 we did. Right. But you have to wonder if Forsyth 00:06:24.449 --> 00:06:27.029 looked at Lawrence and thought, impressive results, 00:06:27.589 --> 00:06:29.610 but look at the state of your uniform. That's 00:06:29.610 --> 00:06:31.629 not how we do things in the Navy, Colonel. Where's 00:06:31.629 --> 00:06:35.069 your shaving kit? Precisely. And this is a foreshadowing 00:06:35.069 --> 00:06:39.029 moment. Very much so. Because later in life, 00:06:39.410 --> 00:06:43.509 Forsythe's greatest enemy, his absolute nemesis 00:06:43.509 --> 00:06:46.449 in politics, is a man who is very much like Lawrence. 00:06:46.689 --> 00:06:49.300 Oh, completely. Charismatic, irregular, breaks 00:06:49.300 --> 00:06:51.759 all the rules. And Forsyth absolutely hates him. 00:06:51.939 --> 00:06:54.079 It's like he spent his whole life trying to stop 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:55.839 the Lawrence's of the world from messing up his 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:57.759 perfect system. That's a brilliant way to put 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.920 it. Yeah. He valued this system over the star 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:04.600 power. So he stays in the Navy until 1930, but 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.759 he eventually moves to New Zealand in 1923 as 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.740 a seamanship instructor. So his first real job 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:13.839 in his new country is literally teaching people 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.560 how to follow naval rules. Perfect fit. And then 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:18.399 World War II hits. And the uniform comes right 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:20.879 back out. Of course it does. He commands the 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.839 Auckland Home Guard. He is a man who runs toward 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:26.600 responsibility. He wants to be the one in charge 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.100 of the defense. So by the time the war is over 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:31.660 and he's settling into civilian life properly, 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.560 his character is set in stone. Cemented. He is 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.360 a commander. He is a man of discipline. But here 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:40.740 is the pivot. He doesn't stay in the military. 00:07:41.139 --> 00:07:44.079 He becomes a union man. Which sounds contradictory 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.839 at first. It does. And this wasn't just a brief 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:49.060 stint. We are talking about a 44 -year career. 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:52.769 Looking at the specific union he led, it's not 00:07:52.769 --> 00:07:54.569 the one you'd expect for a guy who fought at 00:07:54.569 --> 00:07:56.990 Jutland. No, not at all. When we think of New 00:07:56.990 --> 00:07:59.550 Zealand labor history, or really labor history 00:07:59.550 --> 00:08:02.149 anywhere, we think of the muscle unions. The 00:08:02.149 --> 00:08:05.110 big guys. The war fees, the dock workers, the 00:08:05.110 --> 00:08:07.790 miners, the rail workers. The guys who can shut 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:10.329 down the entire economy just by folding their 00:08:10.329 --> 00:08:12.449 arms. The guys who get into fistfights with the 00:08:12.449 --> 00:08:14.430 police. The guys who block the ports. Right. 00:08:14.689 --> 00:08:16.629 Forsyte didn't lead those guys. Who did he lead? 00:08:16.829 --> 00:08:19.250 He was the president of the Auckland Caretakers, 00:08:19.629 --> 00:08:21.970 Cleaners, Lift Attendance and Washmen's Union. 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:24.829 Lift Attendance and Watchmen. Talk about the 00:08:24.829 --> 00:08:27.870 invisible workforce. It is the absolute definition 00:08:27.870 --> 00:08:29.930 of invisible. These are the people who unlock 00:08:29.930 --> 00:08:31.870 the doors at five in the morning. They polish 00:08:31.870 --> 00:08:33.750 the floors while everyone else is sleeping. They 00:08:33.750 --> 00:08:35.590 sit in the lobby watching a security monitor. 00:08:35.850 --> 00:08:39.649 Exactly. And they have almost zero economic leverage. 00:08:40.180 --> 00:08:43.039 If the cleaners go on strike, the office is dirty 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.019 the next day, sure, but the business keeps running. 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.220 It's not like a dock strike where the exports 00:08:48.220 --> 00:08:51.100 physically stop and millions are lost. Exactly. 00:08:51.259 --> 00:08:53.559 So how do you lead a union like that? You can't 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:55.779 just bully the employers. You have to be smarter. 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:58.480 You have to be incredibly organized. You have 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.440 to use the arbitration courts, the legal system, 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:04.740 the specific clauses in the employment contract. 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:07.360 This plays perfectly to Forsyth's strengths. 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:11.000 Perfectly. He was a bureaucratic warrior. He 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:13.000 fought for these people, the little guys, the 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.759 people with no voice for four decades. He retired 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:18.700 as president at age 74, right? Yes. And he was 00:09:18.700 --> 00:09:21.279 made a life member. And he wasn't just local 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:24.360 either. He took this role to the national stage. 00:09:24.620 --> 00:09:27.240 He did. He became the national president. He 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.419 sat on the Auckland Trades Council for years. 00:09:29.740 --> 00:09:32.559 He even represented New Zealand at two conferences 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:35.080 of the International Labour Organization, the 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:38.419 ILO. That is a huge jump. from representing lift 00:09:38.419 --> 00:09:41.200 attendants in Auckland to sitting at the ILO 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.580 table on the international stage. It shows his 00:09:43.580 --> 00:09:47.279 capacity to scale up. But it also reinforces 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.759 his core identity. He saw himself as a champion 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:54.279 of the working class. Specifically, the little 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:57.080 guy within the working class. Yes. And this is 00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:59.000 crucial for understanding what happens later 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.539 in the political arena. He built an identity 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:04.120 as a working class hero. He wasn't some wealthy 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:06.340 lawyer who'd join the Labor Party for clout. 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.379 No, he was in the trenches. Literally in World 00:10:09.379 --> 00:10:11.720 War I and metaphorically with the cleaners and 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.730 caretakers. So when he enters politics... He 00:10:14.730 --> 00:10:17.649 feels like he owns the moral high ground. He 00:10:17.649 --> 00:10:19.330 feels he's earned it through blood and sweat. 00:10:19.570 --> 00:10:22.009 In his eyes, absolutely. He enters the political 00:10:22.009 --> 00:10:24.830 arena properly in 1953 when he's elected to the 00:10:24.830 --> 00:10:27.009 Auckland City Council. And he's re -elected in 00:10:27.009 --> 00:10:29.929 1956. Right. So everything seems to be going 00:10:29.929 --> 00:10:32.629 to plan. He's a loyal labor man sitting on the 00:10:32.629 --> 00:10:36.070 council doing the hard work. But then in 1958, 00:10:36.129 --> 00:10:38.687 we get the first crack in the hall. The first... 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:41.320 breakup, if you will. This is a very telling 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.039 incident. It's 1958 and Forsyth straight up resigns 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:46.980 from the Labor Party. And this is where you expect 00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:50.200 some massive scandal. What was it? Corruption, 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.120 embezzlement. Some torrid affair. A Western bus 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.659 terminal. A bus terminal. Literally a bus terminal. 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.059 You're joking. No. Specifically, it was a disagreement 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:02.399 with the Auckland Labour Representation Committee 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.080 regarding the council's plan for a Western bus 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:07.500 terminal. Okay, break that down for us. Forsyth 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:09.720 supported the council's plan. He looked at the 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:11.980 logistics and agreed with it. The Labour Party 00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:14.500 machine, however, did not. They censured him 00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:17.059 for defying party policy. But most politicians 00:11:17.059 --> 00:11:18.980 would just swallow their pride, vote with the 00:11:18.980 --> 00:11:21.159 party, and move on. Right? I mean, it's just 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:24.159 a bus terminal. But Forsyth quits the party over 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:26.340 it. Yeah, he just walks away. He quits. And this 00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:28.500 analyzes perfectly back to that naval background 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:30.539 we were just talking about. The captain's word 00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:34.159 is law. On a ship, if the captain, or in this 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:36.440 case, his own judgment as a counselor says this 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.559 is the right course, You follow it. He valued 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.539 his own assessment of the city's needs over the 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:45.519 abstract discipline of the party machine. Exactly. 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.779 He felt that as an elected official, his duty 00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:52.360 was the city first on that specific logistical 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.879 issue. So he's out of labor, but he doesn't stop. 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:59.710 In 1959, He runs as a civic reform candidate. 00:11:59.889 --> 00:12:02.110 Which was a ticket combining labor people and 00:12:02.110 --> 00:12:04.769 united independence. And here is the kicker. 00:12:04.990 --> 00:12:08.009 He wins. That's the key takeaway. It is. He proved 00:12:08.009 --> 00:12:10.309 to himself and to the city that he could win 00:12:10.309 --> 00:12:12.730 without the official party machine backing him. 00:12:12.909 --> 00:12:15.210 That is a dangerous lesson for a politician to 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:17.090 learn if you want them to remain loyal later 00:12:17.090 --> 00:12:19.929 on. Very dangerous. It validated his belief that 00:12:19.929 --> 00:12:22.429 he was the brand, not the party. Right. He thinks 00:12:22.429 --> 00:12:24.960 they voted for Forsythe. Not for the labor logo. 00:12:25.460 --> 00:12:27.399 Exactly. So eventually fences do get mended. 00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:30.539 By 1962, he's back in the labor fold. But the 00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:32.879 piece doesn't last long. Because a new character 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:36.259 enters the story. The nemesis. Of Meyer Robinson. 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:38.240 Even the name sounds like a character from a 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.960 novel. Robinson was a force of nature. He was 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.220 the sitting mayor of Auckland. He was charismatic. 00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:46.919 He was eccentric. And he was a decided individualist. 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:49.440 And we've firmly established that Forsythe the 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.730 Navy man, the union president, is all about the 00:12:52.730 --> 00:12:54.889 team, the structure, the collective. Exactly. 00:12:54.950 --> 00:12:57.710 You have a massive personality clash here. Robinson 00:12:57.710 --> 00:13:00.450 was incredibly popular, but he wasn't a party 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:02.669 man in the way Forsyth understood it. So what's 00:13:02.669 --> 00:13:05.809 the context for their first real clash? The 1962 00:13:05.809 --> 00:13:08.909 election. Forsyth rejoins Labor. He runs for 00:13:08.909 --> 00:13:12.250 council with Alex Draver. But there is this widening 00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:15.389 rift between the Labor Party apparatus, specifically 00:13:15.389 --> 00:13:18.070 Forsyth, and Mayor Robinson. And this is where 00:13:18.070 --> 00:13:21.210 Forsyth gets pretty petty. or principal, depending 00:13:21.210 --> 00:13:23.870 on how you look at it, because in 1962, instead 00:13:23.870 --> 00:13:25.870 of backing Robinson, who, let's be clear, had 00:13:25.870 --> 00:13:28.549 a lot of support from left leaning voters, Forsyth 00:13:28.549 --> 00:13:31.070 campaigns for Edgar Faber, who was the president 00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:33.370 of the Chamber of Commerce. So the lifelong trade 00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:36.389 unionist, the leader of the cleaners and caretakers, 00:13:36.789 --> 00:13:39.330 is actively campaigning for the Chamber of Commerce 00:13:39.330 --> 00:13:42.690 guy, just despite the incumbent mayor. It looks 00:13:42.690 --> 00:13:45.909 like pure spite, but Forsyth would argue it was 00:13:45.909 --> 00:13:48.450 rigorous adherence to principle. How does that 00:13:48.450 --> 00:13:51.720 logic work? His argument was this, the working 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:55.779 class deserves a labor option, a real official 00:13:55.779 --> 00:13:58.559 labor option on the ballot. Robinson actually 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.659 had policies that labor liked. He wanted better 00:14:01.659 --> 00:14:03.720 public transport, he wanted council housing, 00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:06.659 he wanted inner city redevelopment. So on paper, 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:10.600 they aligned. Yes, but he wasn't labor. To Forsyth, 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.600 Robinson was getting a free ride. He was harvesting 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.370 labor votes. without submitting to labor discipline. 00:14:16.610 --> 00:14:19.169 Exactly. It's the difference between I like your 00:14:19.169 --> 00:14:21.730 ideas and I need you to wear the jersey. Forsyth 00:14:21.730 --> 00:14:24.190 needed everyone to wear the jersey. Precisely. 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:26.830 Forsyth believed that by letting Robinson run 00:14:26.830 --> 00:14:29.990 unopposed by labor, the party was weakening itself. 00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:32.330 They were outsourcing their job to an independent. 00:14:32.570 --> 00:14:35.289 He felt that if you are a labor voter, you should 00:14:35.289 --> 00:14:37.889 have a box to tick that says labor for every 00:14:37.889 --> 00:14:40.190 single position, including mayor. That was his 00:14:40.190 --> 00:14:43.309 core belief. This brings us to the 1965 mayoral 00:14:43.309 --> 00:14:46.590 campaign. Forsyth decides he's completely done 00:14:46.590 --> 00:14:48.750 watching from the sidelines. He wants a full 00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:52.909 labor ticket. Right. In March 1965, he proposes 00:14:52.909 --> 00:14:56.090 this motion to the party. Initially, the leadership 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:58.769 defeats it. They know Robinson is popular. They 00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:01.029 don't want to rock the boat and lose. But the 00:15:01.029 --> 00:15:03.830 matter gets referred to the local branches. And 00:15:03.830 --> 00:15:07.009 here is the surprise. The local branches actually 00:15:07.009 --> 00:15:09.629 agree with Forsyth. The rank and file want a 00:15:09.629 --> 00:15:12.259 candidate. They do. They believed that having 00:15:12.259 --> 00:15:14.320 a mayoral candidate at the top of the ticket 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.960 would create a coattail effect. Meaning, even 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:20.759 if the mayoral candidate didn't win, the excitement 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.220 of having a real labor choice would bring out 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:26.240 more voters, who would then vote for labor counselors 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.419 down the ballot. Right. So Forsyth gets his wish. 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:31.779 he becomes the mayoral candidate. And he does 00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:33.799 not hold back. I mean, the rhetoric in this campaign 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:36.419 was blistering. He attacked Robinson personally. 00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:38.299 He did. We have the quotes here. He was quoted 00:15:38.299 --> 00:15:41.200 saying, civic leaders are so busy creating an 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.399 image for themselves, they're forgetting the 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:45.559 people they should be serving. That is a direct 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:47.820 shot at Robinson's celebrity style. And my favorite 00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:51.379 quote, he described Robinson as someone who had 00:15:51.379 --> 00:15:54.990 set himself up as a god. Strong words. It highlights 00:15:54.990 --> 00:15:57.649 that clash we mentioned earlier. The celebrity 00:15:57.649 --> 00:16:00.509 mayor versus the service -oriented counselor. 00:16:01.049 --> 00:16:03.350 Forsythe saw himself as a public servant doing 00:16:03.350 --> 00:16:06.570 the unglamorous work. He saw Robinson as a public 00:16:06.570 --> 00:16:08.809 performer. But the voters didn't quite see it 00:16:08.809 --> 00:16:12.110 that way. No. The result was, frankly, a total 00:16:12.110 --> 00:16:14.789 disaster for labor. Forsythe finished a distant 00:16:14.789 --> 00:16:19.600 third. He got 3 ,373 votes. That's nothing. But 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.019 the real damage was the spoiler effect. Because 00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:24.659 by running, he split the left -leaning vote. 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.580 Exactly. He pulled just enough votes away from 00:16:27.580 --> 00:16:29.840 Robinson to allow the Citizens and Ratepayers 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.899 candidate, Roy McElroy, to win. The conservative 00:16:32.899 --> 00:16:35.940 candidate wins. Yes. McElroy won by about 1 ,100 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:38.860 votes. If Forsyth hadn't run, or if those 3 ,000 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:41.139 labor votes had gone to Robinson, Robinson likely 00:16:41.139 --> 00:16:43.059 would have coasted to victory. And what about 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:45.059 that coattail effect? Did he at least bring in 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:47.769 a bunch of new labor counselors? Zero. None. 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:50.470 The predicted surge of labor counselors completely 00:16:50.470 --> 00:16:53.549 failed to materialize. Wow. Forsyth got re -elected 00:16:53.549 --> 00:16:55.350 to the council and his running mate Drever got 00:16:55.350 --> 00:16:57.750 in, but that was it. The strategy was a total 00:16:57.750 --> 00:17:00.389 failure. You would think, looking at that math, 00:17:00.649 --> 00:17:03.029 looking at the absolute wreckage of the 1965 00:17:03.029 --> 00:17:06.750 election, Forsyth would say, okay, lesson learned. 00:17:07.049 --> 00:17:09.150 We can't split the vote. You would think that, 00:17:09.490 --> 00:17:13.000 but you would be wrong. This sets the stage for 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:16.180 what we call the unthinkable act of 1968. The 00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:19.019 stakes are even higher now. McElroy is the mayor. 00:17:19.460 --> 00:17:22.460 Robinson wants his job back. Labor is stuck right 00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:25.259 in the middle. So Forsyth tries one last power 00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:27.839 play. He invites Robinson to a meeting. Face 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:30.299 to face. Face to face. And he issues an ultimatum. 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:32.680 Join the Labor Party. Subscribe to our principles 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:34.559 and policies. If you do that, I will support 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.920 you for mayor. Join the team. Wear the jersey. 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.019 And you have the union man's blessing. But Robinson 00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:43.160 predictably declines. He values his independence 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:45.759 just as much as Forsyth values the party structure. 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.819 Unstoppable force meets immovable objects. Exactly. 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:51.420 So Forsyth withdraws his support. But the Labor 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:54.279 Party leadership. The strategists who are actually 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:56.779 looking at the numbers, they realize they cannot 00:17:56.779 --> 00:17:58.740 win a three -way race again. They know it's suicide. 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:00.640 And they know that most labor voters actually 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.440 prefer Robinson. Why wouldn't they? Because Robinson 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.799 wants rapid rail. He wants cheaper transit. That 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.859 actually helps working -class people. McElroy, 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.779 the citizens and ratepayers guy, didn't really 00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:15.079 have policies for the working class. This is 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.440 the crux of the tragedy. On a policy level, Robinson 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:20.740 was clearly the better choice for the people 00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:23.220 Forsyth claimed to represent. Rapid rail would 00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:25.220 have been a game changer for the cleaners and 00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:27.059 watchmen living out in the suburbs. It would 00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:29.960 have. But Forsyth couldn't get past the independence 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:32.859 label. He just fundamentally disagreed with the 00:18:32.859 --> 00:18:36.119 party's pragmatic decision to sit out the mayoral 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.259 race and let Robinson run against McElroy. So 00:18:39.259 --> 00:18:41.700 what does he do? He goes rogue. He fails to get 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:43.960 the labor nomination because the party wisely 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:47.930 decides not to run a candidate. So Forsyth resigns 00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:50.490 from the Labour Party, again. Second time. The 00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:52.410 second time. And he runs for mayor anyway as 00:18:52.410 --> 00:18:54.369 a Labour Independent. That label is incredible. 00:18:54.470 --> 00:18:56.910 Labour Independent. It's a complete oxymoron. 00:18:57.049 --> 00:19:00.089 It's his way of saying, I am the only true Labour 00:19:00.089 --> 00:19:02.490 person here, even if the Labour Party disagrees 00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:05.349 with me. He views himself as the sole guardian 00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:08.069 of true principles. He really believed the party 00:19:08.069 --> 00:19:10.789 had lost its way by compromising with Robinson. 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:13.670 And the public reaction to this was ugly. It 00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:16.690 got very dark. This wasn't just a polite disagreement 00:19:16.690 --> 00:19:19.470 in the council chambers anymore. The campaign 00:19:19.470 --> 00:19:22.130 turned into what Forsyth himself called Chicago 00:19:22.130 --> 00:19:26.250 -style opposition. Chicago -style? That conjures 00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:29.250 up images of gangsters and strong arming. In 00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:32.789 the context of 1960s Auckland, it meant real 00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.849 intimidation. Forsyth started receiving anonymous 00:19:35.849 --> 00:19:38.150 threatening phone calls. Threatening his life. 00:19:38.289 --> 00:19:40.250 At least half a dozen of them telling him to 00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:42.519 back down. People refused to give their names 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:44.759 but made it abundantly clear he should drop out. 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:47.740 That's intense. Even worse, his family was verbally 00:19:47.740 --> 00:19:50.279 abused while riding on public buses. That is 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.779 horrifying. His family getting yelled at on the 00:19:52.779 --> 00:19:54.980 bus just for being related to him. It just shows 00:19:54.980 --> 00:19:57.839 how heated local politics had become. People 00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:59.940 were furious that he was going to spoil the election 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.740 again and hand it to the conservatives. How did 00:20:02.740 --> 00:20:06.039 Forsyth react to the threats? He lamented it. 00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:08.920 He said he wasn't worried about the callers. 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.279 Personally. Remember, this is a Jutland veteran, 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:14.740 a phone call won't scare him, but he thought 00:20:14.740 --> 00:20:16.819 it was a pretty poor state of affairs that a 00:20:16.819 --> 00:20:18.900 man couldn't offer himself for public office 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:21.099 without this kind of abuse. And what was the 00:20:21.099 --> 00:20:23.980 result of the election? Crushing. His vote count 00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:27.599 was halved from 1965. Halved. So people really 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:29.920 abandoned him. Completely. He was humiliated 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.700 at the polls. Robinson, despite Forsyth's interference, 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.400 actually managed to win the mayoralty back this 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:40.180 time. He defeated McElroy. But Forsyth... Forsyth 00:20:40.180 --> 00:20:42.660 lost his seat on the city council. He was entirely 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:46.460 out. That is a tragic fall. He stood on principle 00:20:46.460 --> 00:20:49.039 or stubbornness and he lost everything. His seat, 00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:51.539 his party, his influence. There is a bitter irony 00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:53.859 here too. What's that? Forsyth and McElroy, the 00:20:53.859 --> 00:20:56.039 opponent, the right wing citizens and ratepayers 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:57.980 candidate, were actually friends. Really? They 00:20:57.980 --> 00:20:59.640 liked each other. They viewed each other as team 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.799 players. Forsyth actually respected McElroy more 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.660 than he respected Robinson simply because McElroy 00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:08.140 followed the rules of his own party. He preferred 00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:12.140 an organized opponent to a chaotic ally. Exactly. 00:21:12.500 --> 00:21:15.740 He understood McElroy. He didn't understand Robinson. 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:18.900 That is fascinating psychology. He'd rather lose 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:21.299 to a proper enemy than win with a rule breaker. 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.619 It tells you everything about his worldview. 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:26.880 Now, before we write him off as just this grumpy, 00:21:27.140 --> 00:21:29.440 obstinate spoiler, we need to look at the other 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.049 side of the ledger. We do. Because section seven 00:21:32.049 --> 00:21:34.950 of our deep dive reminds us that his principles 00:21:34.950 --> 00:21:38.009 weren't just about party rules or personal vendettas. 00:21:38.349 --> 00:21:41.549 He took some brave, genuinely unpopular stances 00:21:41.549 --> 00:21:45.230 on real moral issues. This is crucial to understanding 00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:47.529 the whole man. He wasn't just a bureaucratic 00:21:47.529 --> 00:21:50.480 infighter. He had a deep moral compass. Like 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.440 the housing issue in 1967. Right. He was a member 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.579 of the Auckland State Housing Allocation Committee. 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.480 That's a very powerful position for a local politician. 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.019 It is. You decide who gets a roof over their 00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:02.819 head, and he resigned from that committee in 00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:05.720 protest. Over what? Because of the Holyoke government's 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:07.759 policy regarding the housing of Pacific Islanders. 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.440 He felt the policy was discriminatory. Yes. He 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.259 felt the government was actively failing to provide 00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.900 equitable housing for Pacific Island immigrants 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.660 coming into Auckland. Resigning over that, in 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.259 1967, was a significant stance on racial and 00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:24.720 social equity. It wasn't a popular cause for 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.220 a white politician at the time. It shows he really 00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:29.480 did care about the marginalized, the people the 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.160 system was actively ignoring. Just like his cleaners 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.440 and lift attendants. Exactly the same principle. 00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:36.920 And then there's the Vietnam War. This one always 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.319 amazes me. It connects right back to his youth. 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.539 In 1968, the absolute height of the conflict, 00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:46.680 Forsyth proposed visiting Hanoi personally. He 00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:49.079 wanted to go to North Vietnam. He wanted to fly 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:51.779 there and negotiate an end to the Vietnam War. 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:54.779 That sounds almost delusional. A city councilor 00:22:54.779 --> 00:22:57.579 from Auckland solving the Vietnam War? It does 00:22:57.579 --> 00:23:00.400 sound crazy. But also incredibly poignant. It 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.480 is poignant. You have to remember this is a veteran 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:05.059 of Jutland. He knows what industrial slaughter 00:23:05.059 --> 00:23:07.460 looks like firsthand. He's seen the water turn 00:23:07.460 --> 00:23:10.829 red. Right. He's not a young hippie protester 00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:14.029 holding a sign. He's an old sailor who has seen 00:23:14.029 --> 00:23:17.529 the absolute worst of humanity. He genuinely 00:23:17.529 --> 00:23:20.230 believed that perhaps one veteran talking to 00:23:20.230 --> 00:23:22.450 the leadership could cut through the politics 00:23:22.450 --> 00:23:25.630 and make a difference. It shows a naive but really 00:23:25.630 --> 00:23:28.730 noble desire for peace. And we also see his leadership 00:23:28.730 --> 00:23:31.710 in disaster relief closer to home. The Kaita 00:23:31.710 --> 00:23:34.759 was sinking. Yes. When the MV Kaitawa sank in 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.539 1966, it was a terrible tragedy off Cape Ringo 00:23:38.539 --> 00:23:41.279 where all hands were lost. 29 men died, I think. 00:23:41.539 --> 00:23:44.880 Right. And Forsyth immediately stepped up and 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.940 chaired the relief fund. That brings it all back 00:23:46.940 --> 00:23:48.920 to the sea for him. He never forgot the sailors. 00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:51.880 When that ship went down, he was the one making 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:53.539 sure the widows and the families were looked 00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:56.140 after financially. So you have this incredibly 00:23:56.140 --> 00:23:59.490 complex picture. A man who could be infuriatingly 00:23:59.490 --> 00:24:02.390 stubborn about a bus terminal or a mayoral ticket, 00:24:02.930 --> 00:24:05.890 but who would also fiercely fight for Pacific 00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:08.849 Islander housing and the widows of drowned sailors. 00:24:09.150 --> 00:24:11.529 He was entirely consistent in his own mind. So 00:24:11.529 --> 00:24:13.809 after the 1968 defeat, he's out of the council. 00:24:14.259 --> 00:24:16.920 But he's not dead yet politically. He stays active 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:19.559 on various boards. He kept serving. He was on 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.619 the regional authority, the Metropolitan Drainage 00:24:21.619 --> 00:24:23.740 Board, the Electric Power Board. And the fire 00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:25.680 board. Yes, he was chairman of the staff committee 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:27.660 on the fire board. Again, always looking after 00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:30.380 the workers, the staff. But we have one final 00:24:30.380 --> 00:24:35.140 plot twist. The year is 1974. Forsyth is 75 years 00:24:35.140 --> 00:24:37.220 old. And he decides to make one last comeback. 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:39.579 And this is the twist that just makes your head 00:24:39.579 --> 00:24:42.220 skin when you read the archives. He declares 00:24:42.220 --> 00:24:45.230 his intention to run for council again. But not 00:24:45.230 --> 00:24:48.630 as labor? No. Not as an independent? He announces 00:24:48.630 --> 00:24:51.150 he is going to run as a candidate for citizens 00:24:51.150 --> 00:24:54.990 and ratepayers. The opposition. The conservative 00:24:54.990 --> 00:24:58.289 ticket. The party of his old rival, McElroy. 00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:01.400 The party he had literally spent his entire adult 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:04.680 life fighting against as a trade unionist. It's 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.700 stunning. How do we even explain that? Is that 00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:08.380 the ultimate betrayal of everything he stood 00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:10.660 for? Or is it the final evolution of his anti 00:25:10.660 --> 00:25:12.799 -Robinson crusade? I think it's the latter. I 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.980 really do. By 1974, his hatred of the independent 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:18.339 chaotic style of politics was so deep and his 00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:20.480 friendship with men like McElroy was so real 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:23.059 that he felt more at home with the orderly opposition 00:25:23.059 --> 00:25:25.539 than with the chaotic left. He valued the team 00:25:25.539 --> 00:25:27.559 player aspect more than the actual ideology. 00:25:28.190 --> 00:25:31.430 Exactly. He would rather be on a team that followed 00:25:31.430 --> 00:25:34.990 the rules, even if it was the wrong team ideologically, 00:25:35.549 --> 00:25:38.049 than support a disorganized mess that happened 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:41.150 to agree with him. Decently and in order. That 00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:42.789 was the phrase used in one of the history books 00:25:42.789 --> 00:25:45.710 about Auckland local government. Forsyth wanted 00:25:45.710 --> 00:25:48.490 order above all else. He did. Sadly, we never 00:25:48.490 --> 00:25:50.329 got to see how the voters would have reacted 00:25:50.329 --> 00:25:52.369 to that final switch. Because he passed away 00:25:52.369 --> 00:25:55.150 before the election. He died in August 1974. 00:25:55.569 --> 00:25:58.930 He was buried at Wykemeat Cemetery. a very quiet 00:25:58.930 --> 00:26:02.349 end to a very loud, turbulent life. His papers 00:26:02.349 --> 00:26:04.349 are now sitting at the Auckland War Memorial 00:26:04.349 --> 00:26:06.890 Museum. If you're listening, ever go there. You 00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:08.670 can see the paper trail of a man who fought at 00:26:08.670 --> 00:26:11.730 Jutland, met Lawrence of Arabia, cleaned up the 00:26:11.730 --> 00:26:14.130 unions, and tore his own political party apart 00:26:14.130 --> 00:26:16.930 twice. All in the name of principle. It's a legacy 00:26:16.930 --> 00:26:19.390 of absolute contradictions. He was a hero to 00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:21.529 the lift attendants and the watchmen. He gave 00:26:21.529 --> 00:26:23.440 them a voice when nobody else would. But he was 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.880 a massive spoiler for the broader progressive 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.640 movement in Auckland. He likely delayed the implementation 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:31.119 of things like rapid transit by years because 00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:33.660 of his personal feud with Robinson. He definitely 00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:35.500 did. It really brings us back to that question 00:26:35.500 --> 00:26:38.579 we started with the top of the dive. When you 00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:42.140 look at George Forsyth, you see a man who completely 00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:44.359 refused to compromise. And we usually praise 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:47.420 that. We do. In a movie, we cheer for that guy. 00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:50.650 Mr. Smith goes to Washington. That's right. We 00:26:50.650 --> 00:26:52.470 love the guy who won't back down to the machine. 00:26:52.569 --> 00:26:55.950 We do. But in reality, in the messy, practical 00:26:55.950 --> 00:26:58.650 ecosystem of a running city, that refusal to 00:26:58.650 --> 00:27:01.390 compromise can have terrible costs. It can mean 00:27:01.390 --> 00:27:03.329 the good gets defeated because you were holding 00:27:03.329 --> 00:27:05.589 out for the perfect. Or holding out for the rule 00:27:05.589 --> 00:27:08.329 following. Exactly. Forsythe believed he was 00:27:08.329 --> 00:27:11.349 the sole guardian of the temple. But by barring 00:27:11.349 --> 00:27:13.450 the doors to anyone who didn't know the secret 00:27:13.450 --> 00:27:16.029 handshake, like Robinson, he ended up locking 00:27:16.029 --> 00:27:18.970 himself out, too. So. Here's the thought we want 00:27:18.970 --> 00:27:21.809 to leave you with today. Imagine you were standing 00:27:21.809 --> 00:27:26.329 in that voting booth in 1965 or 1968. You have 00:27:26.329 --> 00:27:28.369 two choices in front of you. A tough choice. 00:27:28.549 --> 00:27:31.230 Very. You have the stubborn principles candidate, 00:27:31.970 --> 00:27:33.549 the man who has fought for the little guy his 00:27:33.549 --> 00:27:35.690 whole life, but who is currently wrecking his 00:27:35.690 --> 00:27:39.549 own party's chances out of spite or a rigid adherence 00:27:39.549 --> 00:27:43.190 to the rules. Or you have the pragmatic celebrity, 00:27:44.250 --> 00:27:47.680 the guy who might be a bit of an egoist, might 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.559 not follow the party line, might think he's a 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.480 god, but actually have the policies that will 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.779 tangibly help people tomorrow. Who gets your 00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:57.019 vote? Exactly. The man of principle who loses, 00:27:57.380 --> 00:27:59.779 or the man of ego who gets things done. It's 00:27:59.779 --> 00:28:03.019 a question that doesn't just apply to 1960s Auckland. 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.680 It's one we face in almost every single election 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.599 today. Absolutely. George Forsyth might be gone, 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:12.019 but the Forsyth dilemma is alive and well. That's 00:28:12.019 --> 00:28:13.420 it for this deep dive. Thanks for listening, 00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:14.599 and we'll catch you on the next one.