WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.160 I want you to picture something for a second. 00:00:03.980 --> 00:00:07.139 You are sitting in a movie theater. OK. Maybe 00:00:07.139 --> 00:00:10.820 it is a rainy Sunday afternoon or late at night. 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:14.060 And you are watching an old black and white classic 00:00:14.060 --> 00:00:15.919 from the late 40s. What's in the scene? Right. 00:00:16.059 --> 00:00:18.460 So the music swells, the screen fades to black, 00:00:18.460 --> 00:00:20.539 and the credits start to roll. Which is the part 00:00:20.539 --> 00:00:23.440 where most people walk out to get more popcorn 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:26.420 or beat the traffic. Exactly. But you stay. You 00:00:26.420 --> 00:00:29.920 watch the name scroll by the director. the producer, 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:32.960 key grip, but then you get to the writer. And 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.640 let us say you are a film historian or maybe 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:37.600 just a really obsessive fan who has read all 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:39.880 the books and you realize something is wrong. 00:00:40.219 --> 00:00:43.200 Or wrong how? Like a typo. No, more like the 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:44.579 name on the screen. It doesn't actually exist. 00:00:44.579 --> 00:00:47.439 There is no such person or even creepier. Maybe 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:49.280 there is just a blank gap right where a name 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.479 should be. It is literally like a ghost wrote 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:55.439 the movie. That is a very specific, almost haunting 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:58.000 kind of horror story. I mean, we are so accustomed 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.619 to the idea of authorship, right? If you build 00:01:00.619 --> 00:01:03.060 a table, you sign the bottom. If you paint a 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:05.799 canvas, you sign the corner. It is a fundamental 00:01:05.799 --> 00:01:09.560 human desire to claim your work. But in mid 20th 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.560 century America, we had this this systematic 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:15.719 machine designed to strip names off their creations. 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:18.640 And today we are going on a deep dive into one 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.459 of those ghosts. We are talking about a man named 00:01:21.459 --> 00:01:24.480 Edward Hupsch. Sometimes he's credited as Eddie, 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:28.079 sometimes Ed. And for a really long stretch of 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:30.459 history, absolutely nobody. Edward Hupsch is 00:01:30.459 --> 00:01:32.760 such a fascinating entry point into this era. 00:01:33.079 --> 00:01:34.859 Because usually when we hear about the Hollywood 00:01:34.859 --> 00:01:38.200 blacklist, we get the very standard saint versus 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:40.579 sinner narrative. Right, the poor innocent writer 00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:43.180 getting crushed by the evil government machinery. 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:45.400 Exactly. And to be fair, the government was pretty 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:47.359 crushing in this story. Oh, absolutely. The crushing 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:49.909 weight of the state is undeniable here. But Hupsch, 00:01:49.909 --> 00:01:52.670 he complicates that narrative. He really does. 00:01:52.969 --> 00:01:54.650 If you look at the sources we have pulled for 00:01:54.650 --> 00:01:57.730 this deep dive, we've got Wikipedia excerpts, 00:01:57.909 --> 00:02:01.510 we've got actual HUAC testimonies, intelligence 00:02:01.510 --> 00:02:04.069 reports, and memoirs from guys like Bernard Gordon 00:02:04.069 --> 00:02:06.709 and Victor Nowaski. And through all of this, 00:02:07.069 --> 00:02:09.849 you see that Hupsch isn't just a victim, he is 00:02:09.849 --> 00:02:12.150 a combatant. And just to jump in real quick before 00:02:12.150 --> 00:02:13.810 we get too deep into the weeds here. Yeah, go 00:02:13.810 --> 00:02:17.189 ahead. Because we are dealing with some very 00:02:18.270 --> 00:02:21.090 intense, highly charged political documents from 00:02:21.090 --> 00:02:23.490 the time stuff from both the far left and the 00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:25.530 far right. We just want to make it super clear 00:02:25.530 --> 00:02:27.509 to you listening that we're not taking sides 00:02:27.509 --> 00:02:30.129 here. Right. Good point. We are not endorsing 00:02:30.129 --> 00:02:32.050 any of the viewpoints found in these sources, 00:02:32.050 --> 00:02:33.889 whether it's the Communist Party line or the 00:02:33.889 --> 00:02:36.189 congressional committee stance. We are purely 00:02:36.189 --> 00:02:39.110 here to impartially unpack the ideas and the 00:02:39.110 --> 00:02:41.490 history contained in the original material. Exactly. 00:02:41.969 --> 00:02:44.150 Our mission today is to figure out what happens 00:02:44.150 --> 00:02:46.370 when a complex human being gets caught in the 00:02:46.370 --> 00:02:49.090 vice, because he was a guy who viewed film as 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:51.669 high art, a guy who volunteered to fight in World 00:02:51.669 --> 00:02:54.750 War Two, but also a guy who was a really rigid, 00:02:55.129 --> 00:02:57.370 sometimes brutal enforcer for the communists. 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.620 party. Two massive gears grinding against each 00:03:00.620 --> 00:03:03.379 other. The US Congress on one side and strict 00:03:03.379 --> 00:03:05.979 party discipline on the other. And the core question 00:03:05.979 --> 00:03:08.879 we want you to think about today is what happens 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:11.259 to a person when those two gears start turning? 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:13.400 What happens to their art and what happens to 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.219 their soul? It is a heavy question. It is. So 00:03:16.219 --> 00:03:19.560 let us unpack this. We have a huge stack of documents 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:22.530 to go through. The transcripts from his government 00:03:22.530 --> 00:03:25.509 hearing alone are wild. Plus, we have reviews 00:03:25.509 --> 00:03:28.069 of his literary work and memories from his friends 00:03:28.069 --> 00:03:30.909 and his enemies. Though in this particular story, 00:03:31.449 --> 00:03:34.030 the line between friend and enemy gets blurry 00:03:34.030 --> 00:03:37.650 very fast. So let us rewind. Before the subpoenas, 00:03:37.830 --> 00:03:40.449 before the federal stakeouts, who is this guy? 00:03:40.629 --> 00:03:43.229 Because just looking at his early bio, he does 00:03:43.229 --> 00:03:45.210 not strike me as a revolutionary bomb thrower. 00:03:45.509 --> 00:03:47.639 No. Not at all. Edward Hupsch was born in New 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.979 York City, February 20th, 1914. So this is a 00:03:50.979 --> 00:03:53.340 generation that comes of age right as the whole 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:55.599 world is essentially falling apart. World War 00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:58.580 I starts right after he was born. The Great Depression 00:03:58.580 --> 00:04:01.560 hits right when he is a teenager. Exactly. But 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.060 he has a very specific intellectual background. 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.590 The source is mentioned relative of his. B .W. 00:04:07.729 --> 00:04:10.150 Huge, who was a massive deal at Viking Press. 00:04:10.430 --> 00:04:12.150 Viking Press. I mean, that is huge. That is John 00:04:12.150 --> 00:04:14.210 Steinbeck. That is Arthur Miller. That is the 00:04:14.210 --> 00:04:16.410 absolute peak of the literary establishment. 00:04:16.709 --> 00:04:18.910 Right. So Edward isn't growing up in a vacuum. 00:04:19.050 --> 00:04:22.110 He's growing up in an environment where words 00:04:22.110 --> 00:04:25.410 have serious weight, where literature is considered 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:27.949 serious business with a capital S and a capital 00:04:27.949 --> 00:04:30.730 B. He joins the League of American Writers early 00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:33.389 on. He's really positioning himself as an intellectual 00:04:33.389 --> 00:04:36.129 from the jump. But then, history intervenes. 00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:41.170 December 7th, 1941, Pearl Harbor. Huebsch is 00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:44.470 what, 27? 28? He is in his late 20s. Yeah. And 00:04:44.470 --> 00:04:46.689 this is a key character moment that we absolutely 00:04:46.689 --> 00:04:48.670 cannot gloss over. Yeah. He does not wait around 00:04:48.670 --> 00:04:51.189 for a draft notice. Right. He volunteers. In 00:04:51.189 --> 00:04:53.670 1942, immediately following the attack, he signs 00:04:53.670 --> 00:04:56.509 up for the US Army. Which is incredibly important 00:04:56.509 --> 00:04:59.170 context for later because 10 years down the line, 00:04:59.430 --> 00:05:01.290 the government is going to paint him as this 00:05:01.290 --> 00:05:04.410 dangerous un -American subversive. But here he 00:05:04.410 --> 00:05:06.970 is voluntarily signing on the dotted line to 00:05:06.970 --> 00:05:09.850 go fight fascism overseas. He does his service. 00:05:10.069 --> 00:05:12.889 The war ends. And like a lot of creative types 00:05:12.889 --> 00:05:15.769 in 1946, he looks at New York, looks at the snow 00:05:15.769 --> 00:05:18.439 and basically says, I'm going to California. 00:05:18.899 --> 00:05:22.019 The gold rush of the 1940s. The movies. He lands 00:05:22.019 --> 00:05:24.920 in Los Angeles in 46. The post -war economy is 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.300 booming. The studios are just churning out content. 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:31.220 And Huge starts getting work. But... And this 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:33.240 is a crucial distinction made by historians. 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:35.980 Supplier in England, Hubs wasn't just a hack. 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:38.319 Because we tend to think of 4D screenwriters 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.139 as these sort of assembly line workers, right? 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:42.740 Like, give me a cowboy movie by Friday. The factory 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:45.240 system, yes. And Hubs did do some of that genre 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:47.759 work. He wrote horror, he wrote thrillers, things 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:49.699 like The Son of Dr. Jekyll and The Wreck of the 00:05:49.699 --> 00:05:52.639 Hesperus. But Supplier in England specifically 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:54.519 grouped him with the writers who treated film 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:57.970 as high art. High art. Which, honestly, sounds 00:05:57.970 --> 00:06:00.269 a bit pretentious for a guy writing The Son of 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:02.970 Dr. Jekyll. It does sound a bit lofty, but you 00:06:02.970 --> 00:06:06.069 have to look at his other credits. In 1948, he 00:06:06.069 --> 00:06:09.649 adapts a Mark Twain story called Best Man Wins. 00:06:09.910 --> 00:06:12.170 Adapting Mark Twain is not something a studio 00:06:12.170 --> 00:06:15.149 hands to the guy who just writes cheap pratfalls. 00:06:15.430 --> 00:06:18.649 No, you need someone who understands voice, satire, 00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:22.949 social commentary. Exactly. Hübsch wanted cinema 00:06:22.949 --> 00:06:25.769 to be literature. He saw the potential for the 00:06:25.769 --> 00:06:27.910 medium to be so much more than just disposable 00:06:27.910 --> 00:06:30.470 weekend entertainment. He brought that Viking 00:06:30.470 --> 00:06:33.110 press pedigree to Hollywood. So he's ambitious. 00:06:33.449 --> 00:06:36.310 He is clearly talented. He is a veteran. By all 00:06:36.310 --> 00:06:38.329 accounts, he should be on the fast track to a 00:06:38.329 --> 00:06:40.689 long lucrative career. But while he is climbing 00:06:40.689 --> 00:06:43.129 the studio ladder, he's also getting really deep 00:06:43.129 --> 00:06:45.410 into the local politics. And this is where we 00:06:45.410 --> 00:06:47.769 have to adjust our mental picture of what communist 00:06:47.769 --> 00:06:50.290 recruitment actually looked like back then. Because 00:06:50.290 --> 00:06:52.209 I think when we hear those words today, we imagine 00:06:52.209 --> 00:06:54.550 a dark alley, a guy in a trench coat passing 00:06:54.550 --> 00:06:56.810 a microfilm whispering about overthrowing the 00:06:56.810 --> 00:07:00.050 government. Right, spy stuff, secret codes, espionage. 00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:03.209 But in Hollywood in the late 40s, it was boring. 00:07:03.670 --> 00:07:06.290 It was deeply bureaucratic. It was mostly just 00:07:06.290 --> 00:07:09.199 labor politics. We have this really revealing 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:11.199 testimony from Stanley Roberts. He was another 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:14.759 screenwriter in the industry. And in May of 1952, 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.399 he is sitting in front of the committee, HUAC, 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.319 and he is spilling the beans on how he got recruited 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:23.639 into the party. And Hübsch is the absolute star 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.480 of this story. Roberts describes being visited 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.089 by what he calls delegates. It sounds more like 00:07:29.089 --> 00:07:32.149 a church committee or a neighborhood watch meeting. 00:07:32.490 --> 00:07:34.629 Listen to the pitch Roberts describes in his 00:07:34.629 --> 00:07:36.810 testimony. He says they didn't talk about Stalin. 00:07:37.009 --> 00:07:39.189 They didn't talk about the proletariat rising 00:07:39.189 --> 00:07:41.709 up in violent revolution. What were they actually 00:07:41.709 --> 00:07:43.490 selling? They were selling better conditions 00:07:43.490 --> 00:07:45.370 in the Screenwriters Guild. They were selling 00:07:45.370 --> 00:07:47.629 higher wages. They were talking about furthering 00:07:47.629 --> 00:07:50.110 Roosevelt's policies. That is it. That is the 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:52.670 grand communist pitch. Hey, do you like FDR and 00:07:52.670 --> 00:07:55.189 making more money? It was an incredibly soft 00:07:55.189 --> 00:07:57.800 sell. Roberts even told the committee that, in 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:00.180 his view, communism in Hollywood didn't seem 00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:02.560 to go anywhere beyond that. It was hyper -local. 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:04.519 It was entirely focused on the union and labor 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:07.360 issues. But Hübsch was the guy making that pitch. 00:08:07.939 --> 00:08:10.100 Roberts specifically names him as a delegate. 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.439 And what strikes me from the source material 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:15.600 is how relentlessly persistent Hübsch was. Because 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.699 Roberts actually quits the party in 1946. He 00:08:18.699 --> 00:08:21.019 gets bored or maybe disillusioned and he walks 00:08:21.019 --> 00:08:23.660 away. But Hübsch comes back. He knocks on his 00:08:23.660 --> 00:08:27.290 door again. Why? To start a revolution? No, to 00:08:27.290 --> 00:08:30.410 support the CSU strike, the conference of studio 00:08:30.410 --> 00:08:32.889 unions. Okay, we need to pause on the CSU strike 00:08:32.889 --> 00:08:34.870 for a second because if we don't understand this, 00:08:35.169 --> 00:08:37.070 we don't understand why the heat was turned up 00:08:37.070 --> 00:08:39.330 so high. This wasn't just a bunch of writers 00:08:39.330 --> 00:08:41.509 holding signs and singing songs outside a gate. 00:08:41.889 --> 00:08:44.269 This was what became known as Hollywood Black 00:08:44.269 --> 00:08:47.299 Friday. This is critical context. In October 00:08:47.299 --> 00:08:50.460 1945 at the Warner Brothers studio, this strike 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:53.440 turned into an all out riot. We're talking about 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:55.580 studio firefighters turning high pressure hoses 00:08:55.580 --> 00:08:58.259 on screenwriters and set decorators. We're talking 00:08:58.259 --> 00:09:00.919 about tear gas canisters flying through the air. 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:04.259 Chains overturned cars and bloody noses. So when 00:09:04.259 --> 00:09:06.539 we say Hupsch was recruiting for the strike, 00:09:06.980 --> 00:09:09.779 he wasn't asking people to sign a politely worded 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:12.519 petition. He was asking them to join a literal 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.740 street fight against the studio moguls. And for 00:09:15.740 --> 00:09:18.899 men like Hübsch, this was the front line. He 00:09:18.899 --> 00:09:21.440 wasn't just sitting in a cafe theorizing, he 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:24.659 was actively organizing support for a massive 00:09:24.659 --> 00:09:27.299 violent labor conflict. And in the eyes of the 00:09:27.299 --> 00:09:29.899 studios and eventually the FBI, that is what 00:09:29.899 --> 00:09:32.200 made him dangerous. Not because he was a spy 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.860 handing nuclear secrets to the Soviets, but because 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:37.000 he was highly effective at shutting down the 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.279 production lines in Hollywood. So he is a true 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:41.419 believer. He is knocking on doors. He is getting 00:09:41.419 --> 00:09:45.240 people to the picket lines. But by 1951, the 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:47.120 climate has drastically shifted. The Cold War 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:49.519 is freezing over. The FBI isn't just watching 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:51.899 anymore. They are acting. And this brings us 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:54.080 to the real thriller part of the deep dive. Yeah. 00:09:54.220 --> 00:09:57.919 The chase. It is April 1951. Enter William A. 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:00.720 Wheeler. He is an investigator for HUAC. And 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:02.700 he has a piece of paper in his pocket with Edward 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:05.320 Huch's name on it. The subpoena. Now, getting 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.950 subpoena today. Usually means you get a registered 00:10:07.950 --> 00:10:10.009 letter in the mail or someone in a suit hands 00:10:10.009 --> 00:10:13.169 you an envelope at your office. But in 1951 Hollywood, 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:16.309 it was a high stakes game of cat and mouse. Because 00:10:16.309 --> 00:10:18.730 they cannot serve you the paper, you do not have 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:21.730 to testify. And if you don't testify, you cannot 00:10:21.730 --> 00:10:24.250 be forced to name names. So Wheeler testifies 00:10:24.250 --> 00:10:26.509 that they got the subpoena late. They rush over 00:10:26.509 --> 00:10:30.049 to Huebsch's house in the valley. 11200 La Maida. 00:10:30.230 --> 00:10:33.399 It is nighttime. They pound on the door. And 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:35.580 Mrs. Hupes answers. And according to the testimony, 00:10:36.100 --> 00:10:39.360 she is cool as a cucumber. She looks at these 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.299 federal agents and says, oh, my husband isn't 00:10:41.299 --> 00:10:43.360 home right now, but he will be back later tonight. 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:46.019 The absolute oldest trick in the book. But the 00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:48.240 US Marshals buy it. Or at least they have no 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.940 choice but to wait. So they set up a stakeout. 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.500 Picture this. A dark suburban street, unmarked 00:10:54.500 --> 00:10:57.299 cars, men in fedoras, chain -smoking cigarettes, 00:10:57.639 --> 00:10:59.519 just watching the front door of a screenwriter's 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:02.580 house. They sit there for hours. All through 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:06.240 the night. No Eddie. And then the sun comes up. 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:08.179 And the neighbor's witness something that tells 00:11:08.179 --> 00:11:10.580 you everything you need to know about the sheer 00:11:10.580 --> 00:11:13.320 panic of that historical moment. Mrs. Hoops comes 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:15.840 out, calmly loads up the family station wagon, 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.419 and just drives away. Just like that. Just like 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:21.080 that. Wheeler says in his report, no one has 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:24.259 been there for the last five weeks. He completely 00:11:24.259 --> 00:11:27.610 vanished. They abandoned their own house. Imagine 00:11:27.610 --> 00:11:29.909 the stress of that reality. You are a writer, 00:11:30.149 --> 00:11:32.269 you adapt Mark Twain, you spend your days worrying 00:11:32.269 --> 00:11:34.610 about dialogue and character arcs, and suddenly 00:11:34.610 --> 00:11:36.690 you were throwing suitcases into a station wagon 00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:38.629 and fleeing your own life because the federal 00:11:38.629 --> 00:11:40.409 government wants to ask you questions you cannot 00:11:40.409 --> 00:11:42.110 answer without destroying your friend's lives. 00:11:42.289 --> 00:11:46.049 He became a fugitive writer. But the massive 00:11:46.049 --> 00:11:48.509 problem with running is that the hearings go 00:11:48.509 --> 00:11:51.269 on without you, and people were starting to talk. 00:11:51.350 --> 00:11:54.490 This is the naming names phase, and it is brutal 00:11:54.490 --> 00:11:56.769 to read through. It is a cascade of betrayal. 00:11:56.909 --> 00:11:59.409 Frank Wright Tuttle, a director, is on the stand. 00:11:59.610 --> 00:12:02.169 He is rattling off names of suspected subversives 00:12:02.169 --> 00:12:04.649 to the committee. And he gets to Huebsch. He 00:12:04.649 --> 00:12:07.649 says Huebsch, H -U -E -B -S -C -H. I think it 00:12:07.649 --> 00:12:10.710 was Eddie. I think it was Eddie. That hesitation 00:12:10.710 --> 00:12:13.830 just kills me. You are actively destroying a 00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:15.769 man's career. You are putting him on a federal 00:12:15.769 --> 00:12:18.490 blacklist. And you aren't even 100 % sure of 00:12:18.490 --> 00:12:20.769 his first name. That speaks volumes about the 00:12:20.769 --> 00:12:23.490 chaotic, almost haphazard nature of the witch 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:26.009 hunt. It was all about quantity over quality. 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.100 Just give us names. Then David A. Lang comes 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:33.080 in later, in 1953. He is much more specific. 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.779 He places Hübsch in a communist cell. He lists 00:12:35.779 --> 00:12:38.059 him right alongside other major writers like 00:12:38.059 --> 00:12:41.000 Hugo Butler and Dalton Trumbo. But Lang mentions 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.100 something really interesting. He says Hübsch 00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:45.789 was part of a writer's clinic. A writer's clinic? 00:12:45.909 --> 00:12:48.049 That sounds entirely innocent, like a weekend 00:12:48.049 --> 00:12:50.009 workshop where you critique each other's dialogue 00:12:50.009 --> 00:12:52.009 over coffee. Hey, Eddie, act two is a little 00:12:52.009 --> 00:12:54.110 slow, maybe tighten up the pacing. If only it 00:12:54.110 --> 00:12:56.870 were that benign. In the specific context of 00:12:56.870 --> 00:12:58.909 the party structure, a clinic was often about 00:12:58.909 --> 00:13:01.850 ideological purity. It was a mechanism for control. 00:13:02.110 --> 00:13:05.799 Control how? Like editing the scripts? Yes. But 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:08.700 they would review scripts not for artistic merit, 00:13:09.019 --> 00:13:11.759 but for political correctness. Does this character 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:14.200 represent the working class correctly? Is the 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.379 capitalist villain sufficiently evil? So Lange 00:13:17.379 --> 00:13:19.419 isn't just saying Hübsch was a casual member. 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:21.840 He is saying Hübsch was essentially part of the 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.139 thought police. He was part of the machinery 00:13:24.139 --> 00:13:27.220 that tried to insert or remove messages in films 00:13:27.220 --> 00:13:30.419 to serve the party's broader goals. So the committee 00:13:30.419 --> 00:13:33.460 is painting Hübsch as a wing leader. a guy enforcing 00:13:33.460 --> 00:13:36.340 the doctrine. Meanwhile, he is still technically 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:39.799 on the run. He is successfully ducking that subpoena. 00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:42.480 And this leads us to honestly what I think is 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.980 the most heartbreaking story in this entire deep 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:47.700 dive, the guild meeting incident. This account 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:49.440 comes directly from Bernard Gordon's memoir, 00:13:49.779 --> 00:13:52.769 Hollywood Exile. and it captures the suffocating 00:13:52.769 --> 00:13:55.409 atmosphere of fear better than any official government 00:13:55.409 --> 00:13:57.370 transcript ever could. Set the scene for us. 00:13:57.490 --> 00:13:59.590 It is a meeting of the Screenwriters Guild, the 00:13:59.590 --> 00:14:01.450 union that is literally supposed to protect these 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:03.950 guys. Right. Now keep in mind, Hubsch is still 00:14:03.950 --> 00:14:06.210 hiding. He's actively avoiding the Marshals. 00:14:06.590 --> 00:14:09.409 Yeah. But the Guild is holding a massive meeting 00:14:09.409 --> 00:14:12.830 to discuss the Blacklist itself. This is his 00:14:12.830 --> 00:14:15.149 life. This is his entire career on the line. 00:14:15.259 --> 00:14:17.899 He decides he absolutely has to be there. It 00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:20.860 is a huge calculated risk He goes to the meeting 00:14:20.860 --> 00:14:24.399 hall, but as he approaches the building Who does 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.240 he see lurking outside the federal marshal the 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.519 guy with the subpoena in his pocket? He is waiting 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.139 right by the door scanning faces as people walk 00:14:32.139 --> 00:14:35.039 in so huge has to think fast He realizes wait 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.039 the marshal is not a member of the Union. He 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.759 cannot legally come inside so huge slips in, 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:41.539 maybe he goes through a back door or just pushes 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:44.279 past in the crowd, and once he is safely inside, 00:14:44.379 --> 00:14:46.159 he takes the floor. He stands up in front of 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.059 his colleagues, his friends, his co -writers, 00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:51.159 and he makes a procedural motion. He asks the 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:53.460 chair to bar the marshal from entering the hall. 00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:56.379 He essentially says, this is a closed meeting, 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.000 members only, keep that guy out so we can conduct 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.000 our business. It is a really smart play. He is 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.279 using the union's own bylaws to buy himself sanctuary. 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:08.340 And he probably thinks the room is with him. 00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:11.000 These are his union brothers and sisters. But 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.039 then, the room turns. A member from the right 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.740 -wing faction of the guild stands up. He raises 00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:18.960 a point of order. And reading this, I almost 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.000 could not believe it actually happened. What 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:24.919 does this guy propose? He moves up that the marsh 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:27.299 will be given temporary membership in the screenwriter's 00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:29.919 guild, specifically so he can enter the hall 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:32.600 and serve the subpoena on Hubsch. They voted 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:34.799 to make the hunter a member of the club just 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:36.899 so he could catch the prey. And they put it to 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:39.669 a vote. all those writers in the room, and they 00:15:39.669 --> 00:15:43.070 voted in favor of the motion. Wow. Just wow. 00:15:43.309 --> 00:15:45.509 Imagine standing there at the podium. You are 00:15:45.509 --> 00:15:47.250 looking out at people you've had lunch with, 00:15:47.389 --> 00:15:49.710 people you have broken story with, people whose 00:15:49.710 --> 00:15:52.250 kids play with your kids, and you watch them 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:54.929 raise their hands to say, yes, let the police 00:15:54.929 --> 00:15:57.110 in to get them. Why would they do that? Was Hupsch 00:15:57.110 --> 00:15:59.750 that hated personally, or was it something else? 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:02.169 Bernard Gordon wrote that this specific moment 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:04.610 was the ultimate proof of how deep the fear went. 00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:08.100 He said, and I am paraphrasing here, that no 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:10.720 one dared to oppose the extreme right wing openly. 00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:13.620 It wasn't that everyone in that room hated Hübsch, 00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:16.179 is that they were completely terrified. If you 00:16:16.179 --> 00:16:19.820 voted no, if you tried to protect him, were you 00:16:19.820 --> 00:16:21.700 going to be next? Would they mark your name down 00:16:21.700 --> 00:16:24.120 as a sympathizer? It is the total collapse of 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.720 solidarity. The mentality becomes, we will sell 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.139 you out to save ourselves. So the motion passes, 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.720 the doors open, the marshal walks in. walks right 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:34.580 up to Hubsch in the middle of this crowded room 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:36.759 and hands him the paper. Gotcha. The chase is 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:38.799 finally over. Hubsch has been served. He has 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:40.860 to go to Washington and face the music. And face 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:44.679 it, he does. March 1953, Edward Hubsch walks 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:46.639 into the hearing room. And if the committee expected 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.620 him to be cowed or to plead for mercy, they were 00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:52.240 in for a massive shock. Reading this testimony, 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.090 it feels electric. Most people know the Hollywood 00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:57.370 10 approach, which was a lot of shouting, making 00:16:57.370 --> 00:16:59.889 speeches, getting physically dragged out of the 00:16:59.889 --> 00:17:02.309 room, or the standard Fifth Amendment approach, 00:17:02.409 --> 00:17:04.329 where you just stay quiet and read a statement. 00:17:05.009 --> 00:17:07.230 Hughes does something completely different. He 00:17:07.230 --> 00:17:09.869 decides to act like an incredibly aggressive 00:17:09.869 --> 00:17:12.630 lawyer. A very aggressive, very sarcastic lawyer. 00:17:12.730 --> 00:17:15.210 First thing he does, he objects to the TV cameras. 00:17:15.250 --> 00:17:18.069 That is right. He flat out refuses to testify 00:17:18.069 --> 00:17:20.369 if he is being filmed. He essentially tells them, 00:17:20.849 --> 00:17:23.230 I am not going to be a prop in your television 00:17:23.230 --> 00:17:26.519 show. And amazingly, the committee blanks. They 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:28.960 actually agreed to reschedule him. So he comes 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.960 back a couple of days later, March 25th. No cameras. 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.880 They assure him he isn't being recorded for broadcasts, 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:36.740 though obviously the stenographer transcript 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:39.299 survives. And he starts right out of the gate 00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:41.059 by going after the chairman of the committee, 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.339 Harold Velde. He repeatedly addresses him as 00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:46.779 King Harold Velde. King Harold? I mean, that 00:17:46.779 --> 00:17:49.099 is just gutsy when these guys hold your entire 00:17:49.099 --> 00:17:52.470 future in their hands. It is a very specific, 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:55.170 intellectual, historical chap. He's referencing 00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:58.630 King George III. He is actively framing the congressional 00:17:58.630 --> 00:18:01.950 committee, not as a democratic body. But as a 00:18:01.950 --> 00:18:04.849 tyranny, he is saying, you are acting exactly 00:18:04.849 --> 00:18:07.309 like the monarchy we fought a revolution to get 00:18:07.309 --> 00:18:09.529 rid of. He is completely flipping the script 00:18:09.529 --> 00:18:11.349 on them. He is calling them the un -American 00:18:11.349 --> 00:18:13.950 ones. And the committee tries to put him in the 00:18:13.950 --> 00:18:16.250 standard trap. They ask, are you a member of 00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:18.569 the Communist Party? Answer, yes or no. This 00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:21.029 was the ultimate trap. Because if you say no 00:18:21.029 --> 00:18:22.829 and they have a witness like David Lyon who already 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:25.809 said yes, you go straight to federal prison for 00:18:25.809 --> 00:18:29.009 perjury. If you say yes, you have legally waived 00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:31.170 your right to silence, and they can force you 00:18:31.170 --> 00:18:33.609 to name names or hold you in contempt. But Hupsch 00:18:33.609 --> 00:18:35.589 doesn't just plead the Fifth and leave it at 00:18:35.589 --> 00:18:37.789 that. He actually sits there and lectures them 00:18:37.789 --> 00:18:40.269 on the Constitution. He uses what we might call 00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:43.150 the gambit of amendments. When they try to force 00:18:43.150 --> 00:18:46.049 the yes or no, he cites the Fifth Amendment clause, 00:18:46.490 --> 00:18:49.410 prohibiting such coercion. But he doesn't stop 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:52.460 there. He refuses to answer based on the First 00:18:52.460 --> 00:18:54.160 Amendment, freedom of speech and association, 00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:56.420 the Fifth Amendment, the privilege against self 00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:58.740 -incrimination, but then throws in the Ninth 00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:00.740 and Tenth Amendments. Okay, I think most of you 00:19:00.740 --> 00:19:02.480 listening know the First and the Fifth. You hear 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.059 about those all the time. But the Ninth and Tenth, 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.859 those are deep cuts. What was his legal theory 00:19:08.859 --> 00:19:12.970 there? It is brilliant, really, and... quite 00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:14.990 novel for the time period. The Ninth Amendment 00:19:14.990 --> 00:19:17.329 basically says just because the Constitution 00:19:17.329 --> 00:19:19.890 lists certain specific rights, that does not 00:19:19.890 --> 00:19:21.589 mean that people don't have other rights that 00:19:21.589 --> 00:19:24.269 aren't explicitly listed. It is like the et cetera 00:19:24.269 --> 00:19:26.829 clause of the Bill of Rights. And the Tenth Amendment 00:19:26.829 --> 00:19:29.109 says that any power not specifically given to 00:19:29.109 --> 00:19:31.450 the federal government belongs to the states 00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:34.210 or to the people. So he is arguing jurisdiction. 00:19:34.329 --> 00:19:37.059 He is telling them they are out of bounds. Exactly. 00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:39.380 He is arguing that the federal government has 00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:42.420 absolutely no constitutional power to ask him 00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:44.859 what he thinks, what he reads, or who he hangs 00:19:44.859 --> 00:19:47.680 out with. He is saying, it isn't just that I 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.859 don't want to answer you. It is that you have 00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:52.720 no legal right to even ask the question in the 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:54.960 first place. The New York Times actually covered 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.039 this hearing. They described it as verbal jousting. 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:00.599 They noted that the committee members were absolutely 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:02.720 furious with him. They officially called him 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:05.700 contemptuous. And he was. He had total undis 00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:07.940 - guy's contempt for them. He wasn't playing 00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:09.880 the victim at all. He was playing the prosecutor. 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:12.259 He was essentially putting the United States 00:20:12.259 --> 00:20:15.240 Congress on trial. So if we stop the movie right 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.779 here, Edward Hughes looks like a pure hero of 00:20:17.779 --> 00:20:20.500 civil liberties. He is the guy standing up to 00:20:20.500 --> 00:20:23.279 King Harold, citing the Ninth Amendment, fighting 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.839 for the very soul of America against a committee 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.240 of bullies. But history is never that clean. 00:20:29.450 --> 00:20:32.630 And this is exactly why we do these deep dives. 00:20:33.009 --> 00:20:35.049 Because while Hughes was an absolute tiger in 00:20:35.049 --> 00:20:36.950 that hearing room defending his own constitutional 00:20:36.950 --> 00:20:39.769 rights, he was also a strict disciplinarian for 00:20:39.769 --> 00:20:42.009 the party, who didn't seem to care very much 00:20:42.009 --> 00:20:44.069 about the rights of others within his own circle. 00:20:44.809 --> 00:20:46.549 We have to talk about the high noon incident. 00:20:46.910 --> 00:20:49.329 This is the pivotal counterweight to his heroic 00:20:49.329 --> 00:20:52.690 testimony. This comes from Victor Nowaski's book, 00:20:52.829 --> 00:20:55.690 Naming Names, and it involves a very famous figure. 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.539 Carl Foreman. Carl Foreman, the writer of High 00:20:58.539 --> 00:21:01.400 Noon, which is the ultimate movie about a guy 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.900 standing all alone while his entire community 00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:07.480 abandons him to face the bad guys, which ironically 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:09.140 sounds exactly like what happened to Huebsch 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:11.140 at that guild meeting. The irony is incredibly 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:13.200 thick. You could cut it with a knife. But in 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.140 this particular story, Huebsch isn't Gary Cooper 00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:17.460 standing alone. He is the bad guy. Or at the 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:20.859 very least, he is the heavy, the enforcer. So 00:21:20.859 --> 00:21:23.529 what is the setup for this meeting? The party 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:25.970 leadership is extremely worried about Carl Foreman. 00:21:26.690 --> 00:21:28.809 They know he is under immense pressure from the 00:21:28.809 --> 00:21:31.130 studios and the government. They think he is 00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:33.329 going to break. They think he is going to name 00:21:33.329 --> 00:21:36.670 names just to save his career in his movie. So 00:21:36.670 --> 00:21:38.769 they send Eddie Hupsch to talk to him. And Hupsch 00:21:38.769 --> 00:21:40.650 later described this himself. He said, I was 00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:42.789 assigned by the party to find out what Foreman's 00:21:42.789 --> 00:21:44.730 testimony was going to be. Assigned, he treats 00:21:44.730 --> 00:21:47.529 it like a military mission. They meet for lunch. 00:21:47.769 --> 00:21:51.349 at a place called Lucy's. Lucy's, the fanciest 00:21:51.349 --> 00:21:53.289 restaurant in Hollywood at the time, right across 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:55.730 the street from Paramount Studios, a place where 00:21:55.730 --> 00:21:58.569 you explicitly go to be seen by the industry. 00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:01.950 And how long does this lunch last? Hughes says 00:22:01.950 --> 00:22:04.569 in the sources, I sat for 11 hours with him. 00:22:04.809 --> 00:22:08.900 11. Hours. That isn't a lunch. That is an interrogation 00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:11.019 with a waiter occasionally refilling the water 00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:13.420 glasses. Just imagine the intense psychological 00:22:13.420 --> 00:22:16.779 pressure of that. Eleven straight hours of Hubsch 00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:18.880 drilling foreman across the table. What are you 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.299 gonna say? Are you gonna sell us out? Where exactly 00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:23.880 do you stand? You really have to understand Hubsch's 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.779 personality here. He is relentless. Remember, 00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:30.359 he is the guy who went back to recruit Stanley 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.700 Roberts months after Roberts had already quit. 00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:36.630 He does not give up. He is sitting there at Lucy's, 00:22:36.809 --> 00:22:38.630 probably smoking pack after pack of cigarettes, 00:22:39.029 --> 00:22:41.430 just wearing Carl Forman down. And what was the 00:22:41.430 --> 00:22:45.049 verdict? Did he break him? Not quite. Hubsch 00:22:45.049 --> 00:22:47.130 could not get Forman to commit to the rigid party 00:22:47.130 --> 00:22:49.849 line, which would be to refuse to cooperate entirely, 00:22:50.009 --> 00:22:52.269 like Hubsch did. But he also couldn't get him 00:22:52.269 --> 00:22:54.869 to admit he was going to name names. Foreman 00:22:54.869 --> 00:22:57.430 was trying to find a nuanced middle ground. He 00:22:57.430 --> 00:22:59.990 wanted to testify about his own past, but refused 00:22:59.990 --> 00:23:02.450 to talk about others. And Hübsch absolutely hated 00:23:02.450 --> 00:23:05.190 that. He despised it. Hübsch's retrospective 00:23:05.190 --> 00:23:07.650 assessment of that meeting is brutal. He said, 00:23:07.769 --> 00:23:09.609 and this is a direct quote, the main point is, 00:23:09.849 --> 00:23:11.789 Carl wouldn't tell the commies to go fuck themselves. 00:23:12.089 --> 00:23:15.369 Wait, unpack that for us. Hübsch was the dedicated 00:23:15.369 --> 00:23:18.079 communist in this scenario. is angry that Foreman 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:19.900 wouldn't tell the communists to get lost. It 00:23:19.900 --> 00:23:22.740 is a kind of ideological doublespeak. Hübsch 00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:25.579 felt that Foreman was being slippery and evasive. 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:27.859 Hübsch respected strength and conviction above 00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:31.099 all else. If Foreman was a real man in Hübsch's 00:23:31.099 --> 00:23:33.380 eyes, he would either be a fiercely dedicated 00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:36.420 communist or a fiercely dedicated anti -communist, 00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:38.839 pick a side and fight. But this middle of the 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:41.380 road, I don't know, compromise stuff, Hübsch 00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:44.859 viewed it as pure weakness. He went back and 00:23:44.859 --> 00:23:46.960 reported Foreman as an informer to the party 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:49.039 leadership. He actually recommended expulsion. 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:50.980 He wanted Foreman kicked out of the party before 00:23:50.980 --> 00:23:53.319 he could even testify. So look at the complete 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:56.640 picture we have now. On a Tuesday, Hughes is 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.000 in Washington D .C. fighting passionately for 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.559 his right to free speech and association, citing 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.299 the Ninth Amendment. On a Wednesday, he is back 00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:06.759 in Hollywood sitting in a restaurant for 11 hours 00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:09.460 trying to force a fellow writer to conform to 00:24:09.460 --> 00:24:12.400 a rigid political line or face expulsion and 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.420 ruin. It seems wildly hypocritical. It is hypocritical, 00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:18.000 but it also perfectly illustrates the intense 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.660 rigidity of the era. You had to choose a side, 00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:22.839 and once you chose, you had to follow the orders 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:26.380 of that side. Hupsch was a man of deep principle, 00:24:27.259 --> 00:24:29.900 but his principles led him to be persecuted by 00:24:29.900 --> 00:24:32.299 the state and to act as a persecutor for the 00:24:32.299 --> 00:24:35.799 party. He fully believed that the ends justified 00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:38.559 the means. It really is tragic. He is caught 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:40.740 in the machinery and eventually the machinery 00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.619 wins because after 1953, the Hollywood career 00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:45.799 is over. The erasure begins. We see it in the 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:47.759 actual credits. The son of Dr. Jekyll, his name 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.220 is just gone, snipped right out of the real. 00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:52.599 And he enters what historians call the shadow 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:55.200 years. This is the period where these blacklisted 00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:57.460 writers could not work under their own names. 00:24:57.859 --> 00:24:59.720 They had to find fronts people who would pretend 00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:01.920 to write the scripts and take the checks, or 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.099 they had to use pseudonyms. Hooch becomes Eduardo 00:25:04.099 --> 00:25:07.859 Bueno. Good Edward. It is a playful but also 00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:11.660 slightly sad nod to his own identity. He writes 00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:15.240 a movie called Little Giants in 1958. The credits 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.720 say Screenplay by Eduardo Bueno. He also worked 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.099 with Hugo Butler on that, who was using the name 00:25:21.099 --> 00:25:23.880 Hugo Mozo. Hupsch is literally ghostwriting his 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.059 own life. And this goes on for 20 years. 20 years 00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:30.059 of forced silence. Imagine being at the absolute 00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:32.599 peak of your powers, talented enough to adapt 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:35.279 Mark Twain, and for two full decades, you were 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:37.279 essentially invisible to the public. It is not 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:40.400 until the late 70s that he tries to make a real, 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.880 credited public comeback. And the project he 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.339 picks? Man, it fits his life story perfectly. 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.970 1977. Twilight's last gleaming. Yeah. Directed 00:25:48.970 --> 00:25:51.029 by Robert Aldrich. Have you seen this movie? 00:25:51.170 --> 00:25:53.710 It is incredibly intense. Burt Lancaster plays 00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:55.750 this disillusioned Air Force general who takes 00:25:55.750 --> 00:25:57.529 over a nuclear missile silo and threatens to 00:25:57.529 --> 00:25:59.769 start World War Three unless the president reveals 00:25:59.769 --> 00:26:01.809 the secret truths to the public about the Vietnam 00:26:01.809 --> 00:26:04.950 War. It is the ultimate post -Watergate post 00:26:04.950 --> 00:26:08.380 -Vietnam paranoia thriller. It is a movie entirely 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:11.539 about a man who served his country, got profoundly 00:26:11.539 --> 00:26:13.859 betrayed by the government apparatus, and decides 00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:15.759 to hold a gun to the head of the establishment 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.539 to force them to be honest. It is autobiography. 00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:21.180 wrapped in a Hollywood thriller. Hupsch is the 00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:23.019 general. He is the guy saying, tell the truth 00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:25.339 or I blow the whole thing up. He was channeling 00:26:25.339 --> 00:26:28.559 all that stored up rage, all that betrayal from 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.660 the Screenwriters Guild meeting, all that contempt 00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:33.519 for King Harold Veld. He poured all of it into 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.759 this script. The reviews were really fascinating. 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:38.960 Variety loved it. They called it intricate, intriguing 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.779 and intelligent. But the New York Times. They 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:45.279 absolutely hated it. They called it deadly, solemn, 00:26:45.500 --> 00:26:48.920 gadgety, suspense melodrama. Ouch. But you know, 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:52.200 looking back, a review from 2012 called it a 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.240 quintessentially 70s moment. It seems Hupsch 00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.579 was really tapping into the cultural zeitgeist, 00:26:58.180 --> 00:27:00.480 that deep feeling of mistrust in institutions, 00:27:00.859 --> 00:27:02.839 even if all the critics weren't quite ready for 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:05.809 it at the time. But the big comeback didn't fully 00:27:05.809 --> 00:27:09.210 take. He tried to pivot to novels next. In 1979, 00:27:09.509 --> 00:27:11.589 he published a book called The Last Summer of 00:27:11.589 --> 00:27:14.650 Matahari, Historical Fiction. And this, well, 00:27:14.809 --> 00:27:16.630 this kind of proves that screenwriting and novel 00:27:16.630 --> 00:27:19.269 writing are two entirely different sports. Very 00:27:19.269 --> 00:27:21.109 different creative muscles. Right, because in 00:27:21.109 --> 00:27:23.630 a screenplay, you are essentially writing blueprints. 00:27:24.250 --> 00:27:26.210 You rely on the director. the lighting team, 00:27:26.289 --> 00:27:29.690 and the actors to bring the emotion and the subtext 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:32.089 to life. In a novel, you have to do all of that 00:27:32.089 --> 00:27:34.690 heavy lifting yourself with just the pros. The 00:27:34.690 --> 00:27:37.190 Kirkus review for this book was absolutely savage. 00:27:37.390 --> 00:27:39.069 I have to read this quote because it is rare 00:27:39.069 --> 00:27:42.190 to see a review this mean. They wrote, noble 00:27:42.190 --> 00:27:45.349 banalities pulse endlessly from Mada's tear -drenched 00:27:45.349 --> 00:27:49.259 heartstrings. pathos supreme. Pathos supreme. 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:51.759 That is a career ending phrase right there. It 00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:53.519 really suggests that while he could perfectly 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:55.839 structure a thriller script, the praise style 00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.059 just got away from him. Maybe he was trying too 00:27:58.059 --> 00:28:00.440 hard to be literary again, trying to recapture 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:02.960 that Viking Press high art label he had back 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.740 in 1946. It is a really sad note to end on professionally. 00:28:06.859 --> 00:28:09.680 He spends decades in the shadows, finally tries 00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:11.960 to come back, gets mixed reviews on his big film, 00:28:12.019 --> 00:28:15.240 gets slammed on his novel. And then in 1982, 00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:18.400 he died. He was 68 years old. He never got to 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.359 see his name fully restored while he was alive. 00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:23.779 No, he didn't. The real outro to this story, 00:28:24.140 --> 00:28:26.599 the restorative justice part, happens much later 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:31.279 in 1997 and 2000. That is when the Writers Guild 00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.779 of America West finally, officially corrected 00:28:34.779 --> 00:28:37.279 the historical credits. They scrubbed Eduardo 00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.779 Bueno from the records and put Edward Hupes back 00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:42.039 on the screen for films like Little Giants. It 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:45.440 took 50 years. But they finally fixed the glitch. 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.059 It matters. It really matters that we go back 00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:50.619 and fill in those blanks. Because Edward Hubsch 00:28:50.619 --> 00:28:52.599 represents the deep complexity of that time. 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:54.500 He wasn't a saint. He was a guy who would sit 00:28:54.500 --> 00:28:56.559 you down for 11 hours and grill you until you 00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.119 broke. But he was also a guy who stood face to 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:00.559 face with the United States government and said, 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.779 you have no constitutional right to ask me these 00:29:02.779 --> 00:29:05.779 questions. He leaves us with a lot to chew on. 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.180 Especially regarding the concept of loyalty. 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:09.779 You know, I keep thinking back to that guild 00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:12.240 meeting. The vote. The vote to let the marshal 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.859 in. It is so easy for us, sitting here with our 00:29:15.859 --> 00:29:18.640 microphones in 2026, to say, oh, I would have 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:20.680 voted no. I would have stood on my chair and 00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.160 shouted shame. It is always very easy to be brave 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.640 in hindsight. But if you were actually in that 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.079 room, if you had a mortgage to pay, if you had 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:32.079 kids at home, if you knew for a fact that the 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:34.279 FBI was taking down license plate numbers in 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:36.930 the parking lot. And you see everyone else's 00:29:36.930 --> 00:29:40.470 hand go up. That is the ultimate question. Solidarity 00:29:40.470 --> 00:29:42.269 is a beautiful concept when you read about it 00:29:42.269 --> 00:29:44.690 in a textbook. It is a terrifying thing to actually 00:29:44.690 --> 00:29:46.930 practice when the subpoena is standing right 00:29:46.930 --> 00:29:48.890 there in the room. Edward Hughes walked out of 00:29:48.890 --> 00:29:50.710 that room with the subpoena, and he never really 00:29:50.710 --> 00:29:53.109 walked back into the life he had built. But he 00:29:53.109 --> 00:29:55.410 left us a story that is absolutely worth diving 00:29:55.410 --> 00:29:58.329 into. A story about the deliberate erasure of 00:29:58.329 --> 00:30:03.250 a name and the very long, very slow road to getting 00:30:03.250 --> 00:30:05.809 it back. That is a perfect place to leave it. 00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:07.910 Think about that vote. Think about what you would 00:30:07.910 --> 00:30:11.490 have done. That is it for this deep dive. Thanks 00:30:11.490 --> 00:30:13.369 for listening. Thanks for joining us.