WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.580 Hello and welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today 00:00:02.580 --> 00:00:06.400 we are tackling a subject that I think a lot 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:08.640 of us interact with, maybe even rely on, but 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:12.140 we rarely stop to actually look at the machinery 00:00:12.140 --> 00:00:14.839 behind it. We're talking about continuing education. 00:00:15.419 --> 00:00:17.679 It's a massive topic. And you're right, it's 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:19.960 often invisible. We tend to think of education 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:23.300 as this linear path. Yeah, straight line. Exactly. 00:00:23.539 --> 00:00:25.140 You go to primary school, maybe high school, 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:27.760 university, and then you're done. You get a diploma, 00:00:27.980 --> 00:00:30.539 you throw the cap in the air and you enter the 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:33.219 real world. And that's it. Chapter closed. But 00:00:33.219 --> 00:00:35.979 continuing education is the system that acknowledges 00:00:35.979 --> 00:00:38.960 that you are never actually done. The learning 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.359 just keeps going. Exactly. It's that hidden engine 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:44.119 of society. And when I first looked at the stack 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:46.539 of sources for this deep dive, I admit I had 00:00:46.539 --> 00:00:49.020 a very, very specific image in my head. Oh, yeah. 00:00:49.390 --> 00:00:51.329 What was it? I was picturing, you know, a night 00:00:51.329 --> 00:00:53.789 class and pottery, maybe something fun and low 00:00:53.789 --> 00:00:56.049 stakes. Or on the other end of the spectrum, 00:00:56.170 --> 00:00:59.689 a mandatory seminar in a hotel conference room 00:00:59.689 --> 00:01:02.850 with like really stale coffee. Which are definitely 00:01:02.850 --> 00:01:06.359 parts of it, for sure. But it is so much more 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:08.620 vast than that. Right. And what we're going to 00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:11.019 find out today is that this isn't just a side 00:01:11.019 --> 00:01:14.459 hobby for retirees. It's this huge bridge between 00:01:14.459 --> 00:01:18.000 formal schooling and, well, the rest of our lives. 00:01:18.019 --> 00:01:19.900 That's the perfect way to phrase it. A bridge. 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:23.040 So the mission today is to unpack all of it. 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:25.379 We're going to get into the history, which I 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:28.480 have to say goes back way further than I expected. 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.180 Oh, much further. We're talking the 1800s here. 00:01:31.540 --> 00:01:33.359 And then we're going to look at the mechanics, 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:35.379 like how is this stuff actually measured? And 00:01:35.379 --> 00:01:37.560 of course, the economics behind it. And that. 00:01:38.109 --> 00:01:41.549 economic piece is really critical. There is a 00:01:41.549 --> 00:01:44.010 real tension in this field, and it's a theme 00:01:44.010 --> 00:01:46.269 that runs through all the source material. It's 00:01:46.269 --> 00:01:48.769 the tension between learning for the sake of 00:01:48.769 --> 00:01:51.049 learning, you know, personal enrichment, and 00:01:51.049 --> 00:01:54.469 learning to survive in the economy. Ah, the adapt 00:01:54.469 --> 00:01:56.790 or die model of professional development. In 00:01:56.790 --> 00:01:59.950 a way, yes. A bit stark, but true. It acts as 00:01:59.950 --> 00:02:02.730 a safety valve for the labor market. When technology 00:02:02.730 --> 00:02:05.569 shifts or the economy changes, continuing education 00:02:05.569 --> 00:02:07.829 is how the workforce is supposed to catch up. 00:02:08.030 --> 00:02:10.889 OK, so before we fire up the time machine and 00:02:10.889 --> 00:02:13.129 go back to the 1800s, I think we need to make 00:02:13.129 --> 00:02:15.770 sure we're all speaking the same language because 00:02:15.770 --> 00:02:19.030 we're calling it continuing education. And that's 00:02:19.030 --> 00:02:21.289 the term we use here in North America. But if 00:02:21.289 --> 00:02:23.330 you're listening to this in London or Sydney, 00:02:23.569 --> 00:02:25.330 you might be scratching your head. That's a great 00:02:25.330 --> 00:02:27.590 point to start on. The terminology really does 00:02:27.590 --> 00:02:29.490 shift depending on where you are on the map. 00:02:29.710 --> 00:02:32.909 In the United States and Canada, continuing education 00:02:32.909 --> 00:02:36.629 is the big umbrella term. It implies you have 00:02:36.629 --> 00:02:39.539 finished the. compulsory part the initial schooling 00:02:39.539 --> 00:02:43.199 and now you are continuing pretty straightforward 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.520 but our sources point out that the UK and Ireland 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:49.639 treat this quite differently they use the term 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:52.219 further education they do and it's not just a 00:02:52.219 --> 00:02:54.280 semantic difference it's a structural one it's 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:55.699 really important to get your head around this 00:02:55.699 --> 00:03:00.000 in the UK further education or FE is a whole 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:01.860 distinct sector okay so what does that mean a 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:04.280 sector it means it sits between secondary school 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:06.780 what we'd call high school And what they call 00:03:06.780 --> 00:03:09.159 higher education, which is your university degree. 00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:12.060 So it's like a middle ground. A huge middle ground. 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.060 FE in the UK covers a massive range of things. 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:17.400 A -levels, which are subject -based qualifications 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:20.419 for university entry, but also vocational training, 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:23.460 apprenticeships, basic adult literacy and numeracy. 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:26.439 It's a much, much wider net. So further implies 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:29.379 more than the basics, whereas higher is reserved 00:03:29.379 --> 00:03:32.199 for like... The ivory tower. The university. 00:03:32.340 --> 00:03:34.500 Precisely. It's a more delineated system. And 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:36.180 then you go to Australia and they get even more 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:39.919 specific. They call it TAAE. TAAFE. Right. Technical 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:42.060 and Further Education. They put technical right 00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:44.620 in the name. They do. And that's a signal. It 00:03:44.620 --> 00:03:46.219 tells you immediately that this isn't just about 00:03:46.219 --> 00:03:49.099 reading philosophy. It's about skills. It's about 00:03:49.099 --> 00:03:51.500 the vocational aspect of keeping a society running. 00:03:51.659 --> 00:03:55.280 Plumbing, IT, nursing, hospitality, the technical 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.419 stuff. I have to say, I kind of like that specificity. 00:03:58.780 --> 00:04:01.580 In the U .S., continuing education can feel a 00:04:01.580 --> 00:04:04.800 bit vague. It could be brain surgery updates 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.259 for a neurosurgeon, or it could be a class on 00:04:07.259 --> 00:04:09.300 how to use Microsoft Excel for the first time. 00:04:09.419 --> 00:04:12.319 And that vagueness comes from the fact that the 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.580 menu of options here is just enormous. It's not 00:04:15.580 --> 00:04:18.079 one thing. And I think that's where people get 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.680 tripped up. It's not a single path. It's a hundred 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:23.199 different paths under one banner. All right. 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:25.540 So let's look at that menu. What is actually 00:04:25.540 --> 00:04:28.019 on the plate when we say continuing education 00:04:28.019 --> 00:04:31.779 in the American context? Well, the sources break 00:04:31.779 --> 00:04:35.259 it down into a few really clear recognized forms. 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:37.720 First, and this is a big one, you have degree 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:40.319 credit courses for non -traditional students. 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:42.939 Non -traditional. That's the key phrase. It is. 00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:45.139 This is the 40 -year -old single parent going 00:04:45.139 --> 00:04:47.240 back to finish the bachelor's degree they started 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.319 when they were 20. It's someone who didn't follow 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.360 that straight line we talked about. Got it. Then 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.480 the next item on the menu. Non -degree career 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:56.649 training. This is purely skills -based. Think 00:04:56.649 --> 00:04:58.889 coding boot camps, project management certificates, 00:04:59.269 --> 00:05:02.089 fair legal programs. The goal isn't a diploma 00:05:02.089 --> 00:05:04.310 to hang on the wall. It's a specific skill to 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:06.730 get a specific job or promotion. And then there's 00:05:06.730 --> 00:05:08.689 workforce training, which is usually corporate, 00:05:08.889 --> 00:05:11.170 right? This is when a company is the client. 00:05:11.610 --> 00:05:14.089 Exactly. Your company hires a university or private 00:05:14.089 --> 00:05:15.889 training firm to come in and train the whole 00:05:15.889 --> 00:05:18.269 department on a new software system or a new 00:05:18.269 --> 00:05:20.290 set of regulations. Okay, that makes sense. But 00:05:20.290 --> 00:05:23.189 then there's one category here that I think deserves 00:05:23.189 --> 00:05:26.689 a moment of reflection. The sources call it college 00:05:26.689 --> 00:05:30.389 remediation. Yeah. Remediation. It sounds a bit 00:05:30.389 --> 00:05:33.269 medical, like you're curing a defect. It does 00:05:33.269 --> 00:05:35.209 have that connotation, but it's actually about 00:05:35.209 --> 00:05:39.889 access and equity. This is for adults who want 00:05:39.889 --> 00:05:43.149 to enter higher education but realize, maybe 00:05:43.149 --> 00:05:45.629 decades after they left high school, that they 00:05:45.629 --> 00:05:47.829 don't have the foundational math or writing skills 00:05:47.829 --> 00:05:50.569 to succeed in a college -level program yet. That 00:05:50.569 --> 00:05:52.790 feels like such a heavy realization to have, 00:05:52.930 --> 00:05:55.470 to have the ambition and the drive to go back 00:05:55.470 --> 00:05:58.009 to school only to be told, you're not ready. 00:05:58.110 --> 00:05:59.829 You have to go back and learn algebra first. 00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:02.759 It requires immense humility and a lot of courage. 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:04.680 I mean, think about it. But it's a critical function 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.279 of the continuing education system. If the system 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.639 didn't offer remediation, if it just said sink 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:13.139 or swim, those doors to higher education would 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:15.639 be closed forever for so many people. So it's 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:17.459 that safety valve concept again. It's not just 00:06:17.459 --> 00:06:19.220 for the economy. It's for individual opportunity. 00:06:19.300 --> 00:06:21.699 It allows for a second chance. A third chance, 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:23.980 a fourth chance, whatever it takes. And finally, 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:26.819 on the lighter side of the menu, we have formal 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:29.300 personal enrichment. And we are back to your 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:31.240 pottery class. We're back to pottery or, you 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:33.100 know, learning Italian because you've always 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:36.100 dreamed of going to Rome. Exactly. Both on campus 00:06:36.100 --> 00:06:39.800 and increasingly online. This is learning for 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:42.620 the pure joy of it. It's not about a job or a 00:06:42.620 --> 00:06:45.300 license. It's about being a more interesting, 00:06:45.459 --> 00:06:47.439 more engaged human being. OK, so we have the 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:50.509 definition down. We know it's this massive umbrella 00:06:50.509 --> 00:06:53.129 covering everything from remediation to personal 00:06:53.129 --> 00:06:56.089 hobbies. But here is where I want to dig into 00:06:56.089 --> 00:06:59.670 what our outline calls the identity crisis of 00:06:59.670 --> 00:07:02.009 this whole sector. Yes. Because reading through 00:07:02.009 --> 00:07:03.750 the research, I get the sense that continuing 00:07:03.750 --> 00:07:07.170 education is, well, it's like the stepchild of 00:07:07.170 --> 00:07:08.910 the university system. It's part of the family, 00:07:08.949 --> 00:07:10.470 but it kind of sleeps in the guest house out 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:14.819 back. That is. A painfully accurate metaphor. 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.980 It really is. And we often describe the structure 00:07:17.980 --> 00:07:21.139 that creates this feeling as the extension model. 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:23.740 Right. You hear it all the time. University extension. 00:07:24.420 --> 00:07:27.620 Harvard Extension School. The word extension 00:07:27.620 --> 00:07:30.600 literally means reaching out. But in practice, 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.259 it often means separate. Okay. It refers to how 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:36.899 these courses are delivered. Frequently, especially 00:07:36.899 --> 00:07:39.339 here in the U .S. and Canada, these programs 00:07:39.339 --> 00:07:41.620 are siloed. They are delivered through a specific 00:07:41.620 --> 00:07:44.310 division. known as the university extension or 00:07:44.310 --> 00:07:47.050 the extension school. It acts as an arm of the 00:07:47.050 --> 00:07:48.850 university reaching out to the community. So 00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:51.470 far, so good. But it is often operationally distinct. 00:07:51.550 --> 00:07:53.430 It has different staff, different buildings, 00:07:53.449 --> 00:07:55.189 sometimes even different pay scales and funding 00:07:55.189 --> 00:07:57.930 models. It's not part of the core academic structure. 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:00.170 It feels a bit like a side hustle for the university. 00:08:00.389 --> 00:08:02.410 Like, hey, we've got this great brand name, this 00:08:02.410 --> 00:08:05.230 great reputation. Let's spin off a product for 00:08:05.230 --> 00:08:07.370 the adults in the community who can't enroll 00:08:07.370 --> 00:08:10.120 full time. You're not wrong. In some ways, it 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:12.540 functions exactly like that. And this very structure 00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:14.939 has actually drawn some pretty sharp critique 00:08:14.939 --> 00:08:17.980 from major international bodies. You're talking 00:08:17.980 --> 00:08:21.019 about the OECD. I am. The Organization for Economic 00:08:21.019 --> 00:08:23.779 Cooperation and Development. For anyone who doesn't 00:08:23.779 --> 00:08:26.639 know, it's a major international organization 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:29.160 that studies and advises on economic policy. 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.659 And they had some strong words about this silo 00:08:32.659 --> 00:08:35.490 model. So what's their beef of it? Well, the 00:08:35.490 --> 00:08:39.049 OECD has argued that continuing education should 00:08:39.049 --> 00:08:41.169 be, and I'm quoting from the source here, fully 00:08:41.169 --> 00:08:44.389 integrated into institutional life. Fully integrated, 00:08:44.490 --> 00:08:46.789 so not shunted off to a separate building across 00:08:46.789 --> 00:08:49.289 town. Exactly. They argue that treating it as 00:08:49.289 --> 00:08:51.809 a separate and distinctive operation employing 00:08:51.809 --> 00:08:54.529 different staff is a fundamental mistake. Why? 00:08:54.570 --> 00:08:57.210 What's the harm in it being separate? Their view 00:08:57.210 --> 00:08:59.549 is that if you integrate it, it creates a two 00:08:59.549 --> 00:09:02.570 -way street. The insights from continuing ed 00:09:02.570 --> 00:09:05.590 can feed back into the mainstream programs. It 00:09:05.590 --> 00:09:07.970 also gives continuing education the due recognition 00:09:07.970 --> 00:09:11.409 deserved. So it's about status. It's about status, 00:09:11.470 --> 00:09:14.769 prestige, and mission. It validates it as a core 00:09:14.769 --> 00:09:16.830 part of what the university is, not just a cash 00:09:16.830 --> 00:09:19.250 -generating side project. It says that teaching 00:09:19.250 --> 00:09:21.210 a 50 -year -old is just as important as teaching 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:23.490 an 18 -year -old. But I want to play devil's 00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:25.730 advocate here for a second. Please do. Doesn't 00:09:25.730 --> 00:09:28.690 the silo model, the extension school, allow for 00:09:28.690 --> 00:09:30.789 more flexibility? I mean, if you're trying to 00:09:30.789 --> 00:09:33.570 run a night school for working adults, do you 00:09:33.570 --> 00:09:36.149 really want to be bogged down by the same academic 00:09:36.149 --> 00:09:38.750 Senate bureaucracy that runs the Ph .D. program 00:09:38.750 --> 00:09:42.610 in medieval history? That is the number one counterargument. 00:09:42.690 --> 00:09:46.230 And it's a powerful one. Separation allows for 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:49.789 agility. Extension schools can often design and 00:09:49.789 --> 00:09:51.970 launch a new certificate program in a matter 00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:55.029 of weeks to respond to a local industry need. 00:09:55.230 --> 00:09:57.309 Whereas a traditional university department might 00:09:57.309 --> 00:09:59.730 take two years to get a new course approved by 00:09:59.730 --> 00:10:02.269 16 different committees. So there is a real tradeoff. 00:10:02.409 --> 00:10:05.330 So it's agility versus prestige. In a nutshell, 00:10:05.509 --> 00:10:08.750 yes. But the OECD's point is about the long -term 00:10:08.750 --> 00:10:10.990 health and centrality of the mission. If you 00:10:10.990 --> 00:10:13.110 keep it separate, it's always less than. It's 00:10:13.110 --> 00:10:15.649 always seen as vocational, not truly academic. 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:18.370 If you integrate it, you're making a statement 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:20.730 that learning is a lifelong process, not just 00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:23.669 something for 18 to 22 -year -olds. It's a fascinating 00:10:23.669 --> 00:10:25.970 tension. And despite that critique from a body 00:10:25.970 --> 00:10:28.850 like the OECD, American universities seem to 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:31.090 love having these programs. I mean, the sources 00:10:31.090 --> 00:10:33.289 mention massive programs at Georgetown, Michigan 00:10:33.289 --> 00:10:35.889 State, the University of Denver. They are doubling 00:10:35.889 --> 00:10:38.250 down on this extension model, not getting rid 00:10:38.250 --> 00:10:40.889 of it. They absolutely are. And there's a clear 00:10:40.889 --> 00:10:43.289 symbiosis there. It's not a one -way street. 00:10:43.490 --> 00:10:46.710 It benefits the university in three very specific 00:10:46.710 --> 00:10:48.990 ways, according to the source material. Okay. 00:10:49.049 --> 00:10:50.529 Let's break those down. What's benefit number 00:10:50.529 --> 00:10:54.149 one? First, it strengthens partnerships. By offering 00:10:54.149 --> 00:10:55.830 these courses, particularly the professional 00:10:55.830 --> 00:10:58.149 and workforce training, universities connect 00:10:58.149 --> 00:11:00.169 directly with corporations and government agencies 00:11:00.169 --> 00:11:03.149 in their region. Right. So if Boeing needs its 00:11:03.149 --> 00:11:05.370 aerospace engineers to learn a new composite 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:07.929 material, they call the University of Washington 00:11:07.929 --> 00:11:10.769 Extension. Exactly. And that creates a relationship. 00:11:11.179 --> 00:11:14.139 That relationship might lead to a multimillion 00:11:14.139 --> 00:11:17.360 -dollar research grant down the road or a new 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:19.980 pipeline for internships for the full -time undergraduate 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:22.879 students. It builds bridges to the real world 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:24.679 of industry. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:27.679 What's the second benefit? The second is a feedback 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:30.860 loop. These programs help inform and shape the 00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:33.360 curriculum for the main degree programs. How 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:35.259 does that work? Well, if you're teaching a class 00:11:35.259 --> 00:11:38.220 full of mid -career professionals in marketing, 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:40.860 You learn very, very quickly what skills are 00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:43.340 actually in demand in the field right now. They'll 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:45.440 tell you. Oh, I see. So the professional student 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.960 says, nobody uses that theory anymore. Everyone 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.120 is focused on this new analytic software. Precisely. 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:55.620 And that real world, up to the minute information. 00:11:56.190 --> 00:11:58.889 can then be fed back to the professors teaching 00:11:58.889 --> 00:12:00.909 the 20 -year -olds in the traditional business 00:12:00.909 --> 00:12:03.710 school, making their degrees more relevant and 00:12:03.710 --> 00:12:06.110 valuable when they graduate. It keeps the academic 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:08.230 world from getting too stale. That's a really 00:12:08.230 --> 00:12:11.250 smart symbiotic relationship. The real world 00:12:11.250 --> 00:12:13.690 tells the academic world what's actually happening. 00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:17.190 And the third reason, well, we can't ignore the 00:12:17.190 --> 00:12:19.590 bottom line. Follow the money. You have to. These 00:12:19.590 --> 00:12:22.279 programs generate revenue. A lot of revenue. 00:12:22.340 --> 00:12:24.279 And that revenue helps to support the broader 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:26.320 academic enterprise. So wait, are you saying 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:28.240 the night classes and project management are 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:30.220 effectively subsidizing the philosophy department? 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.960 In many, many cases, yes. That's exactly what's 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:36.240 happening. The profitable professional certificates 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.059 in high -demand fields help keep the lights on 00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:41.860 for the pure research and the humanities departments 00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:44.779 that might not make money immediately or ever. 00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:48.399 It's an ecosystem. So we have this deep, deep 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:51.659 tension between being a cash cow and having a 00:12:51.659 --> 00:12:54.700 civic mission. And that tension defines the entire 00:12:54.700 --> 00:12:56.860 field. And frankly, I assume this tension was 00:12:56.860 --> 00:12:59.360 new. I really did. I thought this whole continuing 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:02.580 education thing was like. A post -World War II 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:04.820 invention, something that came about with the 00:13:04.820 --> 00:13:07.879 GI Bill or the rise of the corporate ladder in 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:10.679 the 1950s. A very common misconception. But looking 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:12.480 at the history segment of our source stack, I 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.480 was completely and totally wrong. This goes way, 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:16.379 way back. It really does. It's a surprisingly 00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:19.419 deep history. If we look across the pond to the 00:13:19.419 --> 00:13:22.120 UK, for instance, we're talking about the 1870s. 00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:24.639 The 1870s, that is wild. We're talking about 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:27.340 the Victorian era, gas lamps, horse -drawn carriages. 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.399 Absolutely. The Institute of Continuing Education. 00:13:30.669 --> 00:13:34.350 at Cambridge University dates back to 1873. Think 00:13:34.350 --> 00:13:37.289 about that. And Oxford University's Department 00:13:37.289 --> 00:13:39.750 for Continuing Education was founded shortly 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:42.970 after in 1878. So while the Victorians were, 00:13:43.070 --> 00:13:44.990 I don't know, building the London Underground 00:13:44.990 --> 00:13:47.850 and debating the Corn Laws, they were also figuring 00:13:47.850 --> 00:13:50.350 out how to teach adults who weren't full -time 00:13:50.350 --> 00:13:53.649 wealthy students. What was the drive back then? 00:13:53.690 --> 00:13:56.730 Why then? It was a time of massive industrial 00:13:56.730 --> 00:14:00.149 and social change. The world was speeding up 00:14:00.149 --> 00:14:01.889 in a way it never had before. There was this 00:14:01.889 --> 00:14:04.610 growing realization that the old model where 00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:06.210 you learned to trade from your father and you 00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:08.250 did it until you died, that model wasn't going 00:14:08.250 --> 00:14:10.309 to hold anymore. People needed new skills. And 00:14:10.309 --> 00:14:12.289 the university saw it as their duty to provide 00:14:12.289 --> 00:14:14.289 them. Some people at the university did. It was 00:14:14.289 --> 00:14:16.610 a reformist movement, really. But the American 00:14:16.610 --> 00:14:19.370 origin story is arguably even more colorful and 00:14:19.370 --> 00:14:22.250 a bit more grassroots. It starts with Sunday 00:14:22.250 --> 00:14:24.759 school. Okay, the Chautauqua Institution. I've 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:26.200 heard the name, but I honestly didn't know the 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.440 story. So this was founded in 1874, which you'll 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:31.419 notice is right around the same time as the UK 00:14:31.419 --> 00:14:34.100 examples. It was originally called the Chautauqua 00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:36.480 Lake Sunday School Assembly. All right, set the 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.480 scene for me. It's 1874. We're in upstate New 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.440 York. It's summer. It's a retreat, a beautiful 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.159 spot by a lake. And originally, it was an educational 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:47.960 experiment for Sunday school teachers. The idea 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:49.879 was to give them a place to come during their 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:53.299 summer vacation to learn and become... better 00:14:53.299 --> 00:14:56.480 more effective teachers so it was purely religious 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.159 training at first at the very very beginning 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.580 but look at the pivot the source says it was 00:15:01.580 --> 00:15:04.360 so successful that it broadened almost immediately 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.240 broadened into what this is the fascinating part 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.860 into everything it exploded academic subjects 00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:13.240 music art physical education it transformed from 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.000 a niche religious training retreat into a massive 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.720 cultural phenomenon for adult learning you have 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.620 to picture it Thousands of ordinary people gathering 00:15:21.620 --> 00:15:24.519 by a lake in the summer, not just to pray, but 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:27.039 to listen to lectures on science, to hear concerts, 00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:30.000 to discuss literature. It sounds like the 19th 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.279 century version of a TED conference mixed with 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.000 a summer music festival. That's a fantastic analogy. 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.220 It really is. It proved on a huge scale that 00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:40.200 adults were hungry for intellectual engagement 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.639 outside of the formal university walls. They 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:44.879 wanted to learn, even on their vacation. And 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:47.120 while all that was happening in the woods of 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.139 upstate New York, the Ivy League was getting 00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:52.580 involved, too, but in a much more Boston kind 00:15:52.580 --> 00:15:55.240 of way. A very Boston way. We have to talk about 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:57.600 Harvard because their timeline, according to 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.179 the sources, starts even earlier. 1835. 1835. 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.000 I mean, Andrew Jackson is president of the United 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:05.360 States. The Battle of the Alamo hasn't even happened 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:07.639 yet. It's a different world. It really is. And 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.419 in Boston, a man named John Lowell Jr. establishes 00:16:10.419 --> 00:16:13.240 the Lowell Institute. His mission was very specific 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.600 and very radical for the time. Free public lectures 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.320 for the citizens of Boston. Free public lectures. 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:22.379 That's a deeply democratic idea for 1835, which 00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:25.460 is a pretty elitist class stratified time. It 00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:27.399 was radical. And for decades, that's what it 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:30.149 was. A very popular. public lecture series. But 00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:32.169 then we fast forward to 1909. A president of 00:16:32.169 --> 00:16:34.450 Harvard at the time happens to be a man named 00:16:34.450 --> 00:16:36.870 A. Lawrence Lowell. Any relation to John Lowell 00:16:36.870 --> 00:16:39.029 Jr.? He was a trustee of the Lowell Institute, 00:16:39.210 --> 00:16:41.129 so there's a direct family and institutional 00:16:41.129 --> 00:16:44.210 lineage there. And he decided to expand on the 00:16:44.210 --> 00:16:46.669 original plans. He wanted to offer these Lowell 00:16:46.669 --> 00:16:49.509 Institute public courses with Harvard. to give 00:16:49.509 --> 00:16:52.149 them the university's seal of approval. To formalize 00:16:52.149 --> 00:16:55.490 their relationship. Exactly. So in 1910, they 00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:57.909 formally established what was then called the 00:16:57.909 --> 00:17:00.110 Commission on Extension Courses. Which eventually 00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:02.250 becomes the Harvard Extension School we know 00:17:02.250 --> 00:17:05.390 today. That's the one. And what's climb to understand 00:17:05.390 --> 00:17:08.430 is that it is one of the 13 degree granting schools 00:17:08.430 --> 00:17:11.750 of Harvard University. This isn't some side project. 00:17:11.809 --> 00:17:14.170 It's been in continuous operation since 1910. 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:17.289 It's a century old institution woven into the 00:17:17.289 --> 00:17:20.480 fabric of Harvard. But my absolute favorite historical 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.140 nugget in this entire stack of research, and 00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:25.019 I really want to dwell on this because the imagery 00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:27.980 is just so fantastic, is the Cornell story. Oh, 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:29.539 this one is great. We've talked about Sunday 00:17:29.539 --> 00:17:32.200 schools and lecture halls, but Cornell apparently 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.759 took a field trip approach to continuing education. 00:17:36.019 --> 00:17:38.400 This is a wonderful detail that really brings 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.400 the era to life. So Cornell University began 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.539 offering university -based continuing education 00:17:43.539 --> 00:17:46.480 in the 1870s, and they were primarily targeting 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.339 teachers, trying to upskill them. But the source 00:17:49.339 --> 00:17:52.200 we have cites a specific issue of the Cornell 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:54.319 -era newspaper. Yeah, I love that we have a date. 00:17:54.579 --> 00:17:57.960 From February 16, 1877. Amazing. What did it 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.700 say? It noted a new program being offered, a 00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:05.220 tour of the Great Lakes. A tour? Like a vacation 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:08.079 cruise? An educational tour. A scientific expedition 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.039 for the public. It was led by Professor Theodore 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.319 B. Comstock, who was the head of Cornell's geology 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:16.680 department. And it was designed for, quote, teachers 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:19.299 and others. Teachers and others. I love that 00:18:19.299 --> 00:18:21.519 phrasing. It's so wonderfully inclusive and yet 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.619 so vague. But just stop and think about the logistics 00:18:24.619 --> 00:18:28.319 of that for a moment. It's 1877. There's no Internet, 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:30.980 no cell phones. Commercial tourism is barely 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:33.400 a thing. You are signing up to get on a boat, 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:36.650 probably a smoky, loud steamship. with a geology 00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:38.710 professor to sail around the Great Lakes for 00:18:38.710 --> 00:18:40.849 weeks. It sounds like an incredible adventure. 00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:44.130 It was. And it shows that continuing education 00:18:44.130 --> 00:18:46.809 wasn't just about sitting in a dusty classroom. 00:18:46.990 --> 00:18:49.769 It was about experiential learning. It was about 00:18:49.769 --> 00:18:53.329 the democratization of science. Professor Comstock 00:18:53.329 --> 00:18:56.029 wasn't just teaching the sons of wealthy industrialists 00:18:56.029 --> 00:18:58.670 back on campus at Cornell. He was taking teachers 00:18:58.670 --> 00:19:01.069 and others out into the field to look at rock 00:19:01.069 --> 00:19:03.349 formations and understand the world around them. 00:19:03.589 --> 00:19:06.190 It completely changes the way I look at the whole 00:19:06.190 --> 00:19:08.650 field. It's not just about dry professional development. 00:19:08.849 --> 00:19:11.529 The root of it is about curiosity. It's about 00:19:11.529 --> 00:19:14.170 people wanting to understand the planet they 00:19:14.170 --> 00:19:16.990 live on. Exactly. And this momentum just keeps 00:19:16.990 --> 00:19:19.930 building into the early 20th century. We saw 00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:21.829 the University of Wisconsin -Madison start their 00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:25.009 program in 1907. This is often associated with 00:19:25.009 --> 00:19:27.380 the famous Wisconsin idea. What's the Wisconsin 00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:29.400 idea? It's the principle that the university 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.779 should influence and improve people's lives beyond 00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:34.299 the physical boundaries of the campus. The borders 00:19:34.299 --> 00:19:37.200 of the campus are the borders of the state. Continuing 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.839 education was the living embodiment of that idea. 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:41.660 And then, of course, we have the New School. 00:19:41.779 --> 00:19:44.339 The New School for Social Research, founded in 00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:47.619 New York City in 1919. This one is unique because 00:19:47.619 --> 00:19:51.099 initially it was devoted entirely to adult education. 00:19:51.689 --> 00:19:53.849 It wasn't an add -on or an extension. It was 00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:56.049 the whole point of the institution. And the date 00:19:56.049 --> 00:19:59.220 there, 1919, that feels... incredibly significant. 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:01.500 It's hugely significant. Think about the context. 00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:05.220 World War I has just ended. The Spanish flu pandemic 00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:07.799 has just ravaged the globe. Old empires have 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.519 collapsed. The world is in turmoil. People are 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:13.299 confused. They are traumatized. And they are 00:20:13.299 --> 00:20:15.759 desperately looking for answers. So the New School 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.539 wasn't just about learning for fun. No. It was 00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.240 founded as a place for free inquiry, for adults 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.440 to come together and try to understand the complex 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:26.079 social and political problems of this frightening 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.660 new world order. So it was deeply civic. The 00:20:28.660 --> 00:20:30.940 mission wasn't just get a better job. It was 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:33.380 how do we understand this world so we can stop 00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:35.539 it from blowing up again? Precisely. And that 00:20:35.539 --> 00:20:37.980 deep civic mission is really the foundation of 00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:39.960 the best parts of the modern system we have today. 00:20:40.099 --> 00:20:43.240 So we have this rich, fascinating history leading 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.779 us up to the mid 20th century. But then as we 00:20:46.779 --> 00:20:50.079 move into the 1960s and 70s, the sources show 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.500 things start to shift again. There's a new development. 00:20:53.049 --> 00:20:56.730 the rise of the specialized adult learner institution. 00:20:57.250 --> 00:21:00.269 We do. The timeline in our research jumps to 00:21:00.269 --> 00:21:03.029 1969 with the founding of Empire State College. 00:21:03.230 --> 00:21:05.269 Which is part of the SUNY system, right? The 00:21:05.269 --> 00:21:07.450 State University of New York. Correct. And its 00:21:07.450 --> 00:21:10.430 significance really cannot be overstated. According 00:21:10.430 --> 00:21:12.809 to our sources, it was the first institution 00:21:12.809 --> 00:21:16.009 in the United States to exclusively focus on 00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:18.509 providing higher education to adult learners. 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.759 That is a huge deal. Because before that, if 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:23.480 you were an adult going back to school, you were 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:25.799 always the odd one out. You were the 35 -year 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:27.839 -old sitting in a lecture hall full of 19 -year 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.640 -olds who live in dorms and go to football games. 00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:31.859 You were a non -traditional student navigating 00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:34.680 a very traditional space. Empire State changed 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.140 the whole architecture. The entire school, from 00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:39.660 its scheduling to its advising, was built for 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:42.339 you, the adult learner. And other universities 00:21:42.339 --> 00:21:45.460 started to follow suit in their own ways. The 00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:47.859 University of Florida created its Division of 00:21:47.859 --> 00:21:51.500 Continuing Education in 1976, and the source 00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:54.019 notes a very practical adaptation they made. 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:56.539 A simple but revolutionary one. Most courses 00:21:56.539 --> 00:21:59.140 were offered on evenings or on weekends. Which 00:21:59.140 --> 00:22:01.839 seems so obvious to us now, but back then... 00:22:02.059 --> 00:22:04.619 That was a major structural recognition that 00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:07.640 these students have jobs, they have families, 00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.400 they have lives. It was an accommodation of the 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.980 working student's schedule, not forcing the student 00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:14.799 to accommodate the university's nine to five 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.200 schedule. And of course, this evolution in scheduling 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.579 leads us directly to the evolution of delivery 00:22:19.579 --> 00:22:22.160 methods, because eventually even evenings and 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.400 weekends wasn't flexible enough for everyone. 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:26.500 Right. This is the tech progression. And it's 00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:29.099 a fascinating evolution of really the user experience 00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:31.240 of learning. Yeah. It started with the traditional 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.940 classroom lecture in labs, face -to -face. Yeah, 00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:37.339 classic model. Then came independent study or 00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:39.359 correspondence courses. You would literally get 00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:41.500 a packet of materials in the mail, you'd do your 00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:43.200 homework, and you'd mail it back to the professor. 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:46.440 The snail mail era of education. You'd wait weeks 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.660 to get a grade back. Weeks, yeah. Then, as technology 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:52.480 improved in the 70s and 80s, we got videotape 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.910 material. Oh, man, the VCR era. I have such a 00:22:55.910 --> 00:22:58.130 vivid mental image of someone coming home from 00:22:58.130 --> 00:23:01.329 a long day at work, popping a VHS tape into the 00:23:01.329 --> 00:23:04.710 player, and watching a grainy hour -long lecture 00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:07.309 on accounting while eating their dinner. It wasn't 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:10.470 glamorous, but it was effective. And it was a 00:23:10.470 --> 00:23:13.069 huge leap forward because it decoupled learning 00:23:13.069 --> 00:23:15.450 from a specific time. You could pause the professor. 00:23:15.630 --> 00:23:17.829 You could rewind if you missed something. That 00:23:17.829 --> 00:23:20.150 was a game changer. Then after VHS tapes, what 00:23:20.150 --> 00:23:23.279 was next? Then came broadcast programming. Things 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.680 like the sunrise semester on television. You 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:27.660 could tune in at 6 a .m. and watch a university 00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:31.140 course on PBS. And that has all led, inevitably, 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.259 to where we are now. Online education, which 00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:36.319 currently dominates the entire distance learning 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.519 landscape. It's just amazing to trace that straight 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:40.579 line from a steamship tour of the Great Lakes 00:23:40.579 --> 00:23:43.779 in 1877 to someone logging into a Zoom class 00:23:43.779 --> 00:23:46.519 today from their laptop. The technology is completely 00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:48.599 different. But the fundamental human impulse 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.799 is exactly the same. People need to learn things 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.359 they didn't learn in school, and they need a 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:56.440 way to do it that fits into their complicated 00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:59.400 adult lives. That's it. The need hasn't changed 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.240 one bit. Okay, so that's the history. We've gone 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.539 from the sublime, that Great Lakes tour, to the, 00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:08.779 well, let's call it the administrative side of 00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:11.730 things. The nuts and bolts. Exactly. I want to 00:24:11.730 --> 00:24:13.730 get into the nuts and bolts because for a lot 00:24:13.730 --> 00:24:15.809 of people listening to this, continuing education 00:24:15.809 --> 00:24:18.809 isn't just a fun history trip or a personal choice. 00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:21.809 It is a requirement. It is something they absolutely 00:24:21.809 --> 00:24:24.990 have to do to keep their jobs. This is The Four 00:24:24.990 --> 00:24:28.019 Professionals. aspect of the outline. And it's 00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:30.339 a huge, huge part of the industry. We are talking 00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:32.440 about professional licensure. Right. If you're 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:35.200 a teacher or a nurse or an engineer or a therapist, 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.779 you can't just get your degree at 22 and then 00:24:37.779 --> 00:24:40.039 coast for 40 years on that knowledge. Absolutely 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:43.339 not. Licensing bodies in almost every professional 00:24:43.339 --> 00:24:46.539 field teaching, health care, psychology, accounting, 00:24:46.900 --> 00:24:50.079 engineering, they impose strict continuing education 00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:52.900 requirements. And what's the stated goal of that? 00:24:53.390 --> 00:24:56.470 The goal is to encourage or really force professionals 00:24:56.470 --> 00:24:59.029 to expand their foundations of knowledge and 00:24:59.029 --> 00:25:02.130 stay up to date. Medicine changes, tax laws change, 00:25:02.369 --> 00:25:05.210 building codes change, new teaching pedagogies 00:25:05.210 --> 00:25:08.210 emerge. You have to keep up for public safety 00:25:08.210 --> 00:25:10.650 and for professional competence. But let's be 00:25:10.650 --> 00:25:12.849 honest, from the perspective of the person doing 00:25:12.849 --> 00:25:15.089 it, it often feels like a chore. It feels like 00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:17.309 a box checking exercise to keep the state off 00:25:17.309 --> 00:25:19.660 your back. It certainly can feel that way. And 00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:21.799 this is where we get into the alphabet soup of 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:24.960 acronyms that drives professionals crazy. The 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:28.380 CEUs, the CEs, the CMEs. I always get these confused. 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:30.519 What is the actual difference? Yeah, let's break 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:32.079 this down for a minute, because if you get the 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.200 math wrong on this, you might literally lose 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.740 your license to practice your profession. It's 00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.380 high stakes. And the problem is it depends entirely 00:25:39.380 --> 00:25:41.859 on your profession. There is no universal standard. 00:25:42.760 --> 00:25:45.579 The most widely accepted standard, though, comes 00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:47.299 from an organization called the International 00:25:47.299 --> 00:25:50.140 Association for Continuing Education and Training, 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.180 or IACET. And they developed the CEU. The CEU, 00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:57.019 yes. The Continuing Education Unit. Okay, so 00:25:57.019 --> 00:25:59.960 if I'm a professional and my board requires CEUs, 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.339 what is the exchange rate on that? How much work 00:26:03.339 --> 00:26:06.240 is one unit? The standard IACET math is this. 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.470 Ten contact hours equals one CEU. Wait, walk 00:26:11.470 --> 00:26:13.170 me through that. So if I go to a professional 00:26:13.170 --> 00:26:15.109 conference for a whole day, let's say I sit through 00:26:15.109 --> 00:26:17.970 eight hours of lectures and workshops. You haven't 00:26:17.970 --> 00:26:20.589 even earned one full unit yet. After a full day 00:26:20.589 --> 00:26:25.109 of work, you have earned 0 .8 CEUs. Wow. That 00:26:25.109 --> 00:26:27.809 feels a little discouraging, to be honest. It's 00:26:27.809 --> 00:26:29.410 an attempt to standardize effort. It's a very 00:26:29.410 --> 00:26:32.680 industrial era measurement. Yeah. And here's 00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:34.619 where all the confusion comes in. Not everyone 00:26:34.619 --> 00:26:36.700 uses that convention. Of course not. That would 00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:39.319 be too simple. Of course not. So take the American 00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.299 Psychological Association, the APA. They are 00:26:42.299 --> 00:26:45.019 a major accrediting body for sponsors of continuing 00:26:45.019 --> 00:26:48.180 education for therapists, but they use a CE credit 00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:50.700 approach. A credit, not a unit. And I'm guessing 00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:52.460 their math is different. Their math is completely 00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:54.819 different. Typically for them, one contact hour 00:26:54.819 --> 00:26:57.750 equals one CE credit. Oh, wow. Okay, that is 00:26:57.750 --> 00:26:59.609 a massive difference. So if I tell you I need 00:26:59.609 --> 00:27:02.869 to earn 10 CEs this year, that can mean I need 00:27:02.869 --> 00:27:05.009 to do 10 hours of work if I'm a psychologist 00:27:05.009 --> 00:27:07.809 under the APA system. Or it could mean I need 00:27:07.809 --> 00:27:10.269 to do 100 hours of work if I'm an engineer under 00:27:10.269 --> 00:27:13.349 the IAC system. Precisely. The distinction between 00:27:13.349 --> 00:27:16.950 a unit and a credit is absolutely vital, and 00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:18.789 it varies from profession to profession, state 00:27:18.789 --> 00:27:21.200 to state. I can just imagine the sheer panic 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:24.059 of a professional realizing on December 15th 00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:26.420 that they have 10 units due by the end of the 00:27:26.420 --> 00:27:28.680 year, thinking it's just 10 hours of webinars 00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:31.079 and then finding out. It's actually 100 hours 00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.339 of work they need to cram in before New Year's 00:27:33.339 --> 00:27:36.180 Eve. It happens all the time. And it really highlights 00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:38.680 the bureaucracy of the system. At the end of 00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:41.059 the day, we're trying to measure learning with 00:27:41.059 --> 00:27:44.440 a stopwatch. It's a deeply imperfect proxy. Does 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:46.880 sitting in a chair for 10 hours guarantee that 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:48.599 you learned anything? Not at all. You could be 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.160 asleep. You could be asleep. But it's the only 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:54.299 easily quantifiable metric we have to ensure 00:27:54.299 --> 00:27:56.480 that people are at least, you know, showing up 00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.440 and being exposed to new information. It's the 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.400 button seat. metric of learning. Crudely put, 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.299 but yeah, pretty accurate. So we've covered what 00:28:04.299 --> 00:28:06.380 it is, where it came from and how it's measured. 00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:08.319 Now, I want to circle back to the why again, 00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.380 but this time from a macro perspective. We talked 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:13.259 about universities making money. We talked about 00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:15.099 professionals keeping their licenses. But what 00:28:15.099 --> 00:28:17.400 about the students, the people themselves? What 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.700 drives the demand for this education, especially 00:28:19.700 --> 00:28:22.720 when times get tough? This is where we have to 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.359 look at the intersection of psychology and economics. 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:28.480 And there is a fascinating and I have to say 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:32.849 a somewhat tragic paradox here that really came 00:28:32.849 --> 00:28:35.009 into sharp focus during the Great Recession. 00:28:35.130 --> 00:28:37.250 And this is from the study by Eddie Ventures, 00:28:37.289 --> 00:28:40.730 right? The one from spring 2009? Yes. Eddie Ventures 00:28:40.730 --> 00:28:43.549 is a higher education consulting firm, and they 00:28:43.549 --> 00:28:47.139 released this study right in the... absolute 00:28:47.139 --> 00:28:49.380 thick of the economic downturn. I mean, I want 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:51.900 you to remember what 2009 felt like. Oh, I remember 00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:54.019 it vividly. Lehman Brothers had just collapsed. 00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:55.859 The stock market was in a complete freefall. 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:58.700 People were watching their 401ks just evaporate. 00:28:58.900 --> 00:29:01.000 Layoffs were happening everywhere. The fear was 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:03.779 palpable. And it's in that environment of extreme 00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.440 economic anxiety that Eddie Ventures went out 00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:09.940 and surveyed 1 ,500 adults who said they were 00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:11.839 planning to enroll in some kind of course within 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:13.779 the next two years. OK, so they're talking to 00:29:13.779 --> 00:29:16.119 people who want to learn. What did they find? 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:19.519 They found a deep and painful conflict. On the 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.039 one hand, nearly half of the respondents believed 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:24.460 that the value of education had actually risen 00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:27.210 because of the recession. That makes perfect 00:29:27.210 --> 00:29:30.089 intuitive sense. The economy is terrible. Jobs 00:29:30.089 --> 00:29:33.069 are scarce. So having more skills, a better degree, 00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:36.009 it makes you safer. Education becomes a life 00:29:36.009 --> 00:29:38.869 raft in a storm. Exactly. The perceived value 00:29:38.869 --> 00:29:41.289 went way up. If I just get the certificate, maybe 00:29:41.289 --> 00:29:43.849 I won't get fired. Or if I can finish my degree, 00:29:44.009 --> 00:29:45.750 maybe I can find a new job in a different field. 00:29:46.789 --> 00:29:48.849 However, and this is the core of the paradox, 00:29:49.170 --> 00:29:51.730 over two thirds of those same people said the 00:29:51.730 --> 00:29:53.650 state of the economy had negatively affected 00:29:53.650 --> 00:29:56.230 their plans to actually pursue that education. 00:29:56.450 --> 00:29:59.289 So let me get this straight. I know more than 00:29:59.289 --> 00:30:01.470 ever that I need this to survive. But because 00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:03.869 I am in survival mode, I cannot afford to get 00:30:03.869 --> 00:30:06.640 the thing I need. Precisely. The crushing tension 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:09.640 between needing skills to survive an economic 00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:12.839 downturn, but lacking the money or the job security 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:16.000 to actually pay for them during that very same 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:19.700 downturn. That is a brutal catch -22. It's a 00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:22.099 market failure, really. Think about the person 00:30:22.099 --> 00:30:24.960 filling out that survey in 2009. They're probably 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:26.839 sitting at their kitchen table at night looking 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:29.519 at a stack of bills they can't pay, knowing that 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.759 a $2 ,000 course in medical billing could solve 00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:33.920 their problems in the long run. But they just 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.240 don't have that $2 ,000 today. It's this tragedy 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:39.079 of lost potential scaled across millions of people. 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.440 I mean, how many people didn't retool in 2009 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:43.380 because they just couldn't afford it? And where 00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:46.119 are they now, a decade later? That is the unanswered 00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:49.059 question. And looking forward, this problem isn't 00:30:49.059 --> 00:30:51.579 going away. If anything, the sources suggest 00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:53.720 it's getting more urgent. I'm looking here in 00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:55.599 the notes on the World Bank report from 2019. 00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:57.880 The World Development Report, which was focused 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:00.299 on the future of work. Right. And their argument 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.440 is very, very strong. They state that flexible 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.660 learning opportunities are, quote, vital. Vital. 00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:08.500 That's a powerful word, especially coming from 00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:10.619 a cautious institution like the World Bank. It 00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:13.480 is. They aren't mincing words. They argue that 00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:15.500 labor markets are in a state of massive flux 00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:18.900 and need to adjust. The nature of work itself 00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:22.000 is changing because of automation, AI, the gig 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.480 economy. The job you have today might not exist 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:28.819 in 10 years. So workers, they say, need to retrain 00:31:28.819 --> 00:31:31.400 and retool. Retool. I like that word. It implies 00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:33.400 you already have the machine. The worker is capable, 00:31:33.619 --> 00:31:36.650 smart, and experienced. You just need to swap 00:31:36.650 --> 00:31:38.630 out some of the parts to make it work for the 00:31:38.630 --> 00:31:40.589 new job. That's a great way to put it. It's not 00:31:40.589 --> 00:31:42.430 about starting over from scratch as if you know 00:31:42.430 --> 00:31:44.630 nothing. It's about adaptation. Okay, but if 00:31:44.630 --> 00:31:47.269 we combine the World Bank's warning from 2019 00:31:47.269 --> 00:31:50.390 with the Ada Ventures finding from 2009, we have 00:31:50.390 --> 00:31:53.190 a really scary scenario taking shape. Lay it 00:31:53.190 --> 00:31:56.009 out. The World Bank says you must retool to survive 00:31:56.009 --> 00:31:59.049 the coming wave of automation. And the Ada Ventures 00:31:59.049 --> 00:32:02.049 study says when the economic crisis caused by 00:32:02.049 --> 00:32:04.130 that automation hits, you won't be able to afford 00:32:04.130 --> 00:32:07.319 to retool. Exactly. We have a system where we 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.480 are telling people they are individually responsible 00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:12.200 for their own lifelong learning and adaptation, 00:32:12.579 --> 00:32:15.740 but we have no mechanism to help them do it when 00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:18.400 they are most vulnerable. If we rely on a system 00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:20.640 where the individual has to front the full cost 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.619 of their own retooling right at the moment when 00:32:23.619 --> 00:32:26.059 their income is most unstable, we are setting 00:32:26.059 --> 00:32:28.259 up millions of people for failure. It suggests 00:32:28.259 --> 00:32:30.940 that continuing education isn't just a personal 00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:33.920 choice or a consumer good. It's a piece of critical 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.640 economic infrastructure like roads or the power 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.220 grid. That's the argument. And if that safety 00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:41.660 valve we talked about is stuck shut because it's 00:32:41.660 --> 00:32:44.099 too expensive to open, the pressure in the system 00:32:44.099 --> 00:32:46.500 just builds and builds and builds. And eventually... 00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:49.079 The system breaks. Well, that is a sobering thought 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.279 to land on. But I think it frames the whole conversation 00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.779 we've had today perfectly. We started this deep 00:32:53.779 --> 00:32:56.359 dive thinking about, you know, pottery classes 00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:59.640 and board nurses checking boxes for their license. 00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.099 And we ended up talking about the fundamental 00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:04.839 resilience of the 21st century workforce and 00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:07.859 the stability of the economy. It really is the 00:33:07.859 --> 00:33:09.819 hidden engine. I mean, just think about the journey 00:33:09.819 --> 00:33:11.579 we just went on, all based on these sources. 00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:14.119 We started with Sunday school teachers in 1874, 00:33:14.380 --> 00:33:16.680 sitting by a lake, trying to become better teachers 00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:19.299 during their summer vacation. We went on a geology 00:33:19.299 --> 00:33:22.900 boat tour of the Great Lakes in 1877 with teachers 00:33:22.900 --> 00:33:26.079 and others. We saw these ancient August institutions 00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:28.880 like Harvard and Oxford formalize it and create 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.079 these extension schools. We saw the identity 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:33.900 crisis, the debate over whether it should be 00:33:33.900 --> 00:33:36.490 a separate side hustle or integrated. into the 00:33:36.490 --> 00:33:38.809 core mission of the university. We saw the shift 00:33:38.809 --> 00:33:41.710 to adults only colleges like Empire State in 00:33:41.710 --> 00:33:45.170 1969, a place built from the ground up for working 00:33:45.170 --> 00:33:47.490 students. And now we're looking at a world where 00:33:47.490 --> 00:33:50.230 online distance learning is the default and the 00:33:50.230 --> 00:33:52.609 World Bank is basically shouting from the rooftops. 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.740 retool or get left behind it's all part of the 00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:58.799 same continuum it's a 150 year old story and 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.880 continuing education is the bridge it connects 00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.339 the academic world the world of theory and degrees 00:34:03.339 --> 00:34:06.200 with the working world the world of day -to -day 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.539 application and frankly career survival And adaptation. 00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:12.699 If there's one single word to sum this all up, 00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:15.079 it's adaptation. Whether it's that healthcare 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:17.880 worker in 2024 getting their CEUs to learn a 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:20.179 new procedure, or that Chautauqua teacher in 00:34:20.179 --> 00:34:23.880 1874 adapting to new ideas about education. And 00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:26.039 that ability to adapt is what will determine 00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:29.019 success for individuals and for entire economies 00:34:29.019 --> 00:34:31.800 going forward. So to wrap this up, here's the 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:33.880 provocative final thought I want to leave you, 00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:37.230 the listener, with today. We know from the data 00:34:37.230 --> 00:34:39.550 that education becomes more valuable when the 00:34:39.550 --> 00:34:41.829 economy tanks. We know that's when people feel 00:34:41.829 --> 00:34:44.349 the need to learn the most. But we also know 00:34:44.349 --> 00:34:47.230 that is exactly when we as individuals stop pursuing 00:34:47.230 --> 00:34:49.769 it because of the cost. So if the World Bank 00:34:49.769 --> 00:34:52.230 is right and continuous retooling is the future 00:34:52.230 --> 00:34:54.949 of work, if this isn't a luxury anymore but a 00:34:54.949 --> 00:34:57.150 basic necessity for survival in an automated 00:34:57.150 --> 00:34:59.949 world, how do we solve that fundamental problem 00:34:59.949 --> 00:35:02.880 of access? When the economy inevitably dips again, 00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:04.860 how do we make sure people can actually afford 00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:07.179 the life raft they so desperately need? It's 00:35:07.179 --> 00:35:10.639 a huge question. And it's a question that policymakers, 00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:14.380 universities and maybe even employers are going 00:35:14.380 --> 00:35:17.000 to have to grapple with very seriously because 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:20.530 the need is not going away. The pace of change 00:35:20.530 --> 00:35:23.070 is only getting faster. A lot to think about 00:35:23.070 --> 00:35:25.429 next time you see a brochure for a night class, 00:35:25.610 --> 00:35:27.369 or you get that email reminding you about your 00:35:27.369 --> 00:35:29.690 professional credits, or even if you're just 00:35:29.690 --> 00:35:31.210 thinking about learning something new for the 00:35:31.210 --> 00:35:34.610 fun of it. Remember, you're part of a long, noble 00:35:34.610 --> 00:35:37.670 history that goes back to the 19th century. You 00:35:37.670 --> 00:35:39.789 are standing on the deck of that steamship with 00:35:39.789 --> 00:35:42.190 a geology professor. trying to make sense of 00:35:42.190 --> 00:35:44.550 the world. And you're fueling the engine of the 00:35:44.550 --> 00:35:46.590 future workforce. Thanks for joining us on this 00:35:46.590 --> 00:35:48.489 deep dive. It's been a pleasure. Keep learning. 00:35:48.630 --> 00:35:49.489 We'll see you next time.