WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.859 So, I want you to picture a really specific address 00:00:03.859 --> 00:00:08.060 in Manhattan. Okay. 235 East 11th Street. All 00:00:08.060 --> 00:00:09.460 right, I can picture the neighborhood. Right, 00:00:09.580 --> 00:00:11.199 and if you walk past it today, it just looks 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:14.160 like part of the city, right? Yeah, just standard 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:15.980 brick building. Standard brick, standard vibe. 00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:20.079 But if you could time travel back to, say... 00:00:20.950 --> 00:00:24.190 1955. Oh, wow. Walking through those doors would 00:00:24.190 --> 00:00:26.390 be like stepping into a totally different dimension. 00:00:26.609 --> 00:00:28.089 It really would. You'd be stepping into what 00:00:28.089 --> 00:00:32.649 was effectively a social laboratory. Yes. But 00:00:32.649 --> 00:00:34.909 entirely disguised as an elementary school. Exactly. 00:00:34.950 --> 00:00:37.750 So for everyone listening today, our deep dive 00:00:37.750 --> 00:00:40.009 is focusing on the downtown community school 00:00:40.009 --> 00:00:43.969 or DCS, as we'll probably call it. Right. And 00:00:43.969 --> 00:00:45.810 honestly, calling it a school feels like we're 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:48.179 underselling it a bit oh absolutely it ran from 00:00:48.179 --> 00:00:52.799 1944 to 1971 and looking at the source material 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.340 we have today i mean it reads less like a school 00:00:55.340 --> 00:00:59.479 yearbook and more like um a manifesto a manifesto 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:01.939 for a utopia yeah utopia that actually existed 00:01:01.939 --> 00:01:04.799 in new york for 27 years it's fascinating because 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:07.560 when you look at that founding date you know 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:11.340 1944 right in the thick of it exactly you have 00:01:11.340 --> 00:01:13.359 to realize the context world war ii is still 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:16.489 raging yeah The world is in absolute chaos at 00:01:16.489 --> 00:01:19.670 that point. And here is this group of people 00:01:19.670 --> 00:01:22.950 in New York City just planting a flag and saying, 00:01:23.030 --> 00:01:25.150 we're going to try something completely different. 00:01:25.290 --> 00:01:27.450 And they weren't subtle about it either. Their 00:01:27.450 --> 00:01:30.189 mission statement wasn't just, you know, we want 00:01:30.189 --> 00:01:32.469 to teach kids math and spelling. Far from it. 00:01:32.549 --> 00:01:35.189 The sources say it was to train children to, 00:01:35.230 --> 00:01:37.290 quote, live and work together in understanding. 00:01:37.390 --> 00:01:40.040 Which is heavy. Right. I mean, it sounds like 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:43.340 a nice greeting card today, but in 1944, that 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:46.019 is a very loaded goal. It is. It's an explicitly 00:01:46.019 --> 00:01:49.739 political and social goal. They actually define 00:01:49.739 --> 00:01:52.900 themselves with three very specific words. Right. 00:01:52.980 --> 00:01:55.180 I have those here. Experimental, cooperative 00:01:55.180 --> 00:01:58.319 and racially integrated. Yeah. And we really 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.439 need to sit with that last one for a second because, 00:02:00.620 --> 00:02:04.560 you know, a racially integrated private school 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.540 in the 1940s. Was not the norm. Not even close 00:02:07.540 --> 00:02:10.680 to the norm. And the cooperative part, too, that's 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.219 the one that always catches my eye. Why is that? 00:02:13.419 --> 00:02:16.639 Because I think we hear co -op today and we think 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:21.139 of like a grocery store where you have to bag 00:02:21.139 --> 00:02:23.240 your own lentils or something. Or a food co -op. 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:26.280 Yeah. But in a school setting, it changes the 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:28.759 power dynamic entirely. It really does. Yeah. 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:31.580 It means the school isn't owned by a church. 00:02:31.780 --> 00:02:35.830 Right. And it isn't owned by a wealthy headmaster 00:02:35.830 --> 00:02:38.590 or a board of corporate directors. It's owned 00:02:38.590 --> 00:02:40.750 by the community. Exactly. The parents and the 00:02:40.750 --> 00:02:42.949 teachers operate it. It implies that education 00:02:42.949 --> 00:02:45.930 is a democratic process. Not a service you just 00:02:45.930 --> 00:02:48.930 buy. Precisely. Which sounds amazing in theory, 00:02:49.050 --> 00:02:52.330 but I imagine the actual logistics of that were... 00:02:52.509 --> 00:02:54.870 Oh, I'm sure. I mean, democracy is always messy, 00:02:54.949 --> 00:02:56.569 especially with parents. Oh, absolutely. But 00:02:56.569 --> 00:02:58.330 let's let's get into the experimental part, because 00:02:58.330 --> 00:03:00.349 this is where the character of the school really 00:03:00.349 --> 00:03:02.090 shines through in the documents. We have to talk 00:03:02.090 --> 00:03:04.409 about the leadership. The sources focus really 00:03:04.409 --> 00:03:06.650 heavily on this guy named Norman Studer. Yes, 00:03:06.770 --> 00:03:08.729 Norman Studer. He was the director there from 00:03:08.729 --> 00:03:12.330 1950 all the way to 1970. A full two decades. 00:03:12.909 --> 00:03:15.409 And Studer isn't your typical school administrator 00:03:15.409 --> 00:03:19.409 at all. Not an MBA type. No, not at all. He's 00:03:19.409 --> 00:03:22.620 described in the text as a school reformer. And 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:26.080 a folklorist. A folklorist. I mean, that is such 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:28.819 a specific niche background for a guy running 00:03:28.819 --> 00:03:31.520 a grade school. Right. It sounds like the setup 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:33.979 for a quirky indie movie or something. It really 00:03:33.979 --> 00:03:36.620 does. But it's actually the key to understanding 00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:39.020 their whole curriculum. If you think about what 00:03:39.020 --> 00:03:41.599 folklore actually is. It's the study of common 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.780 people. Yeah. It's the songs, the stories, the 00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:48.229 traditions of everyday working folks. So instead 00:03:48.229 --> 00:03:50.129 of like the great man theory of history where 00:03:50.129 --> 00:03:52.090 it's all General Washington did this and President 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:54.550 Lincoln did that. Right. Studer is bringing this 00:03:54.550 --> 00:03:57.270 entirely bottom up approach to a classroom of 00:03:57.270 --> 00:03:59.610 kids. Precisely. You have to remember that in 00:03:59.610 --> 00:04:03.310 the 1950s, standard American education was incredibly 00:04:03.310 --> 00:04:06.229 rigid. Lots of rote memorization. Yes. A very 00:04:06.229 --> 00:04:09.030 sanitized, pop down version of history. But Studer 00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:11.710 comes in and says, no, let's look at the culture 00:04:11.710 --> 00:04:13.750 right on the street level. The sources suggest 00:04:13.750 --> 00:04:16.509 this influenced everything they did. They weren't 00:04:16.509 --> 00:04:18.889 just reading textbooks. They were engaging with 00:04:18.889 --> 00:04:21.509 the diverse cultures of New York City directly. 00:04:21.810 --> 00:04:23.689 Right, using the city as a primary source. That 00:04:23.689 --> 00:04:26.089 makes so much sense. It basically turns the entire 00:04:26.089 --> 00:04:28.709 city into the classroom. You aren't just learning 00:04:28.709 --> 00:04:30.730 about the people you are out there. Recording 00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:32.790 their stories. Yeah, it feels very journalistic. 00:04:32.790 --> 00:04:35.629 Or maybe anthropological is a better word. Anthropological 00:04:35.629 --> 00:04:37.930 is exactly the right word. And you know, this 00:04:37.930 --> 00:04:40.230 wasn't happening in a vacuum either. Right. The 00:04:40.230 --> 00:04:43.350 network. ECS was part of this little ecosystem 00:04:43.350 --> 00:04:46.189 of progressive schools in New York at the time. 00:04:46.389 --> 00:04:48.410 You had places like the Little Red Schoolhouse 00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:50.490 and the Walden School. Okay. Yeah, I've definitely 00:04:50.490 --> 00:04:52.550 heard of the Little Red Schoolhouse. That one 00:04:52.550 --> 00:04:55.689 is legendary. It really is. These schools were 00:04:55.689 --> 00:04:57.910 basically the Ivy League of the American left 00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:01.269 back then. Right. If you were a progressive or 00:05:01.269 --> 00:05:03.750 an artist or just a free thinker in New York 00:05:03.750 --> 00:05:07.430 in the mid -century, this sovific network was 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:10.350 your safe harbor. It's where you sent your kids 00:05:10.350 --> 00:05:12.970 if you wanted them to question authority rather 00:05:12.970 --> 00:05:17.009 than just, you know, salute it. And speaking 00:05:17.009 --> 00:05:20.149 of questioning authority, this is where the timeline 00:05:20.149 --> 00:05:23.410 gets really interesting. We can't talk about 00:05:23.410 --> 00:05:26.870 this era without addressing the huge elephant 00:05:26.870 --> 00:05:30.829 in the room. The Red Scare. The 1950s. McCarthyism. 00:05:30.870 --> 00:05:33.610 Right. So for our listeners, as a quick refresher, 00:05:33.629 --> 00:05:36.629 you have the House Un -American Activities Committee 00:05:36.629 --> 00:05:40.569 or HUAC. Yes. And they are just. They're tearing 00:05:40.569 --> 00:05:43.250 through Hollywood. They're tearing through universities. 00:05:43.769 --> 00:05:46.389 Blacklisting anyone with even a whiff of leftist 00:05:46.389 --> 00:05:49.089 sympathy. Exactly. People are losing their careers 00:05:49.089 --> 00:05:50.889 and their livelihoods overnight. And just to 00:05:50.889 --> 00:05:53.850 be completely clear for everyone listening, we 00:05:53.850 --> 00:05:56.129 aren't taking any political sides here. Right. 00:05:56.189 --> 00:05:57.949 We're just reporting what the sources say about 00:05:57.949 --> 00:05:59.730 the historical climate. Right. We're just looking 00:05:59.730 --> 00:06:02.170 at how the school navigated this incredibly tense 00:06:02.170 --> 00:06:05.230 period. And is a climate of absolute fear. So 00:06:05.230 --> 00:06:07.699 in the middle of this massive witch hunt. What 00:06:07.699 --> 00:06:10.519 does the downtown community school do? They don't 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:12.279 back down. They don't just keep their heads down. 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.420 They go out and hire a music teacher who is literally 00:06:15.420 --> 00:06:18.319 actively on the blacklist. This is one of those 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:20.819 moments that completely defines the institution. 00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:23.040 The source material is very clear about this 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:27.019 detail. They hired this music teacher. Specifically 00:06:27.019 --> 00:06:29.019 because he couldn't get work anywhere else. Because 00:06:29.019 --> 00:06:31.879 he refused to cooperate with HUAC. And it wasn't 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.720 just some random unknown guy either. No. It was 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.720 Pete Seeger. The folk icon himself. I mean, really 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:40.620 think about that for a second. Today, Pete Seeger 00:06:40.620 --> 00:06:44.480 is American royalty. Right. He's this land is 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.680 your land guy. He's the grandpa of folk music. 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:50.420 But in the early 50s... The government viewed 00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:52.560 him as a literal threat to national security. 00:06:52.980 --> 00:06:55.889 Yes. He couldn't play concert halls. He was totally 00:06:55.889 --> 00:06:58.750 toxic to employers. And the school director, 00:06:59.050 --> 00:07:02.050 Norman Studer, and the parents, they looked at 00:07:02.050 --> 00:07:04.329 that toxicity and said, we'll take him. It's 00:07:04.329 --> 00:07:07.110 incredibly bold. It really is. It moves the school 00:07:07.110 --> 00:07:09.269 from just being a progressive educational space 00:07:09.269 --> 00:07:12.509 to being a literal sanctuary. Defiant is the 00:07:12.509 --> 00:07:14.370 word I keep thinking of. It's basically them 00:07:14.370 --> 00:07:16.589 saying, we don't care what Congress says. We 00:07:16.589 --> 00:07:19.430 value this art and we value this human being. 00:07:19.670 --> 00:07:21.970 Yeah. Can you imagine being a kid in that music 00:07:21.970 --> 00:07:24.459 class? I wonder if the kids even fully grasped 00:07:24.459 --> 00:07:26.279 it at the time. To them, he was probably just 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:28.560 the tall guy with the banjo. Right, the guy who 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:30.800 taught them songs about labor unions and working 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.000 on the railroad. Exactly. You're seven years 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.439 old, sitting cross -legged on the floor, singing 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:39.220 If I Had a Hammer, completely oblivious to the 00:07:39.220 --> 00:07:42.040 fact that the FBI definitely has a file on your 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.259 music teacher. But that's the beauty of their 00:07:44.259 --> 00:07:47.360 model. By shielding the kids from the direct 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.319 political fallout, they were actually immersing 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.399 them in the core values. Normalizing it. Yes, 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.759 normalizing the idea that art and protests go 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.100 hand in hand. And Pete Seeger wasn't the only 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:02.149 notable figure walking those halls. The environment 00:08:02.149 --> 00:08:04.790 they created there became a magnet for a very 00:08:04.790 --> 00:08:07.250 specific type of parent. Oh, the parent list 00:08:07.250 --> 00:08:09.490 is unbelievable. It's insane. I was reading through 00:08:09.490 --> 00:08:11.850 the source material and my jaw just kept dropping. 00:08:12.009 --> 00:08:15.930 It's a literal who's who of 20th century intellectuals 00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:17.910 and activists. It really is. Let's unpack this 00:08:17.910 --> 00:08:20.050 roster a bit because the names are staggering. 00:08:20.389 --> 00:08:23.850 First up, we have Bella Abzug. Battling Bella 00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:26.550 herself. Long before she was shaking up Congress 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:30.540 in her famous hats, she was a DCS mom. Then you 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:34.259 have Miriam Makeba. Mama Africa. Right. An exiled 00:08:34.259 --> 00:08:37.419 South African singer and a massive civil rights 00:08:37.419 --> 00:08:40.500 activist. The fact that she chose this specific 00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:43.360 school tells you everything you need to know 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.299 about its global perspective. It really does. 00:08:45.379 --> 00:08:47.539 And the list goes on. You have Leonard Boudin, 00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:50.740 the famous civil liberties lawyer. Right. Douglas 00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:53.580 Turner Ward, the playwright. Josh White, another 00:08:53.580 --> 00:08:57.279 blues and folk legend. Dora Ashton the art critic. 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:00.500 An incredible mix of arts and law. And then the 00:09:00.500 --> 00:09:03.120 real heavy hitter from the academic world, Margaret 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.860 Mead. The most famous anthropologist. in the 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:07.720 world at the time. I just have to stop and visualize 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:10.379 this for a second. Imagine the PTA meetings at 00:09:10.379 --> 00:09:12.080 this school. It would be absolutely terrifying. 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:14.639 Seriously. You're there just trying to organize 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:17.139 the spring bake sale. Right. And you have Bella 00:09:17.139 --> 00:09:19.779 Abzug shouting about the logistical inefficiencies 00:09:19.779 --> 00:09:22.220 of the cookie distributor. And Margaret Mead 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:24.600 is sitting in the corner psychoanalyzing the 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:26.799 travel dynamics of the parent committee. And 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:29.480 then Pete Seeger just starts playing the banjo 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:31.980 to calm everybody down. Exactly. It sounds like 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:34.500 a sitcom. It really does. But it begs a serious 00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:38.159 question. Why were they all there? Why did these 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.419 specific, highly influential people flock to 00:09:41.419 --> 00:09:44.899 235 East 11th Street? I think it goes right back 00:09:44.899 --> 00:09:46.919 to that experimental and cooperative tag we talked 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:49.799 about earlier. How so? Well, if you are Margaret 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:53.610 Mead or an avant -garde artist, You don't want 00:09:53.610 --> 00:09:56.330 your child in a school that demands strict conformity. 00:09:56.370 --> 00:09:57.789 Right. You don't want them in a place that just 00:09:57.789 --> 00:10:00.049 teaches them to sit down and shut up. Exactly. 00:10:00.070 --> 00:10:02.970 You want a place that values their individuality. 00:10:02.990 --> 00:10:04.909 And more importantly, you want a community that 00:10:04.909 --> 00:10:07.450 reflects your own values. Values that were largely 00:10:07.450 --> 00:10:11.789 under attack in mainstream 1950s America. Precisely. 00:10:11.789 --> 00:10:14.590 It was a safe space for their ideals. A bubble, 00:10:14.629 --> 00:10:17.690 really. But a really, really high IQ bubble. 00:10:17.870 --> 00:10:20.049 And that bubble produced some very interesting 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:22.789 results. The alumni list mentioned in the text 00:10:22.789 --> 00:10:25.649 perfectly mirrors the inputs. The apple didn't 00:10:25.649 --> 00:10:28.169 fall far from the tree. Not at all. You have 00:10:28.169 --> 00:10:30.950 students like Richard Kostelinetz, who became 00:10:30.950 --> 00:10:34.629 a major avant -garde artist and cultural historian. 00:10:34.990 --> 00:10:37.970 That feels like a direct straight line from Norman 00:10:37.970 --> 00:10:40.590 Studer's folklore curriculum. It really does. 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:42.700 And even in the later years of the school, you 00:10:42.700 --> 00:10:45.259 had people like Eric Jueger. The graphic novelist. 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.399 Yeah, the one who does those amazing New Yorker 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:49.659 covers. You had the poet Vincent Katz. Right. 00:10:49.779 --> 00:10:51.879 You had Corey D. Williams, who went into acting. 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.379 And Nicholas Burns, the literary critic. It seems 00:10:56.379 --> 00:10:59.279 the school was effectively a factory for creatives, 00:10:59.299 --> 00:11:03.039 for people whose job is to observe and comment 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.360 on society. Which totally makes sense. Right. 00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:08.080 If you grow up with folklore and civil rights 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:11.340 and parents who are professional activists, you 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:13.460 aren't very likely to grow up and become a corporate 00:11:13.460 --> 00:11:15.460 accountant. No offense to corporate accountants 00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:17.639 listening, of course. Of course not. But yeah, 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.360 the vibe is definitely different. But I want 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:21.460 to pivot here to something a bit more serious. 00:11:21.580 --> 00:11:24.240 We've talked about the cool factor, the folk 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.350 songs. The famous parents, the creative kids. 00:11:27.669 --> 00:11:30.529 But the source material highlights a specific 00:11:30.529 --> 00:11:34.809 moment in 1963 that shows the school wasn't just 00:11:34.809 --> 00:11:37.350 playing at activism. They were in the trenches. 00:11:37.629 --> 00:11:40.629 They really were. 1963 is a crucial pivot point 00:11:40.629 --> 00:11:43.370 historically. The civil rights movement is really 00:11:43.370 --> 00:11:45.769 heating up nationally. And the source describes 00:11:45.769 --> 00:11:48.429 an incident involving a group of African -American 00:11:48.429 --> 00:11:51.259 students from New Jersey. Right. Now, normally 00:11:51.259 --> 00:11:53.519 a Manhattan private school doesn't have much 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.779 to do with New Jersey public schools. But something 00:11:56.779 --> 00:12:00.179 unique happened here. Yes. These students in 00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:03.340 New Jersey were protesting. They were being assigned 00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:06.379 to a racially segregated school and they point 00:12:06.379 --> 00:12:09.379 blank refused to go. So they were effectively 00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:11.919 boycotting their own education to fight for better 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:13.919 conditions. Exactly. So these kids are out of 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:15.740 school because of the boycott and the downtown 00:12:15.740 --> 00:12:17.960 community school steps in. They did a lot more 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:20.860 than just step in. The source specifically says 00:12:20.860 --> 00:12:23.340 they arranged to teach this group. Let's just 00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:25.220 wrap our heads around the logistics of that for 00:12:25.220 --> 00:12:27.279 a second. This isn't just tweaking a lesson plan. 00:12:27.539 --> 00:12:30.019 No, not at all. This means they likely had to 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:32.740 coordinate bringing these students from New Jersey 00:12:32.740 --> 00:12:35.840 into Manhattan, crossing state lines. Right. 00:12:36.019 --> 00:12:38.320 To provide them with an education while they 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.360 protested segregation in their home district. 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:43.860 It's a massive logistical undertaking and a deeply 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:46.200 political one. It moves the school's mission 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:49.960 from theory to action. Perfectly said. It's one 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.139 thing to say on paper we are a racially integrated 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:55.139 school. Right. Words are easy. But it is another 00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:58.110 thing entirely to say. We are going to use our 00:12:58.110 --> 00:13:01.490 resources, our actual building, and our teachers 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:05.110 to directly support a civil rights protest happening 00:13:05.110 --> 00:13:08.029 in another state. It really reinforces that idea 00:13:08.029 --> 00:13:10.009 of the school as a sanctuary that we were talking 00:13:10.009 --> 00:13:12.049 about earlier. Absolutely. Whether you were a 00:13:12.049 --> 00:13:14.769 blacklisted folk singer in the 50s or a student 00:13:14.769 --> 00:13:18.309 fighting segregation in the 60s, DCS was a place 00:13:18.309 --> 00:13:20.490 that opened its doors when others shut them. 00:13:20.690 --> 00:13:22.870 And imagine the lesson that taught the regular 00:13:22.870 --> 00:13:25.980 enrolled students. Wow. Yeah. You can't learn 00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:28.279 that in a textbook. Watching your own school 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.759 turn itself into a literal support system for 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:32.860 the civil rights movement. That leaves a permanent 00:13:32.860 --> 00:13:35.759 mark on a kid. It paints such a picture of a 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.519 vibrant and principled, almost magical place. 00:13:38.740 --> 00:13:41.519 It does. But will we know how this ends? Our 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:43.919 deep dive isn't called the school that is still 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.940 open today. Sadly, no. The downtown community 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:50.940 school closed its doors in 1971. And this is 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:53.389 the part that honestly hurts to read. Because 00:13:53.389 --> 00:13:56.590 it wasn't the FBI that shut them down. It wasn't 00:13:56.590 --> 00:13:59.429 some huge political scandal. It wasn't a flaw 00:13:59.429 --> 00:14:01.850 in the folklore curriculum. It was pure economics. 00:14:01.870 --> 00:14:04.409 The source is very blunt about it. Financial 00:14:04.409 --> 00:14:07.169 pressure. Right. Specifically increased mortgage 00:14:07.169 --> 00:14:10.509 costs. And this right here is the tragedy of 00:14:10.509 --> 00:14:12.610 the cooperative model in a city like New York. 00:14:12.669 --> 00:14:15.220 Yeah. The source notes they were facing, these 00:14:15.220 --> 00:14:17.779 rising mortgage costs, which meant they would 00:14:17.779 --> 00:14:19.700 have had to raise tuition significantly just 00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:21.820 to survive. And that creates an impossible conflict 00:14:21.820 --> 00:14:24.100 for them, doesn't it? It strikes at the very 00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:27.220 heart of their identity. If you are a community 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:28.919 school, if you pride yourself on being cooperative, 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:31.379 you want to be accessible. Right. You want to 00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:33.879 serve the children of artists, the children of 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.139 activists, people who, frankly, often do not 00:14:37.139 --> 00:14:39.799 have a lot of money. Exactly. If you jack up 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:43.179 the tuition just to pay the new mortgage. You 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:45.659 might save the physical building, but you lose 00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:48.200 the soul of the project. You just become another 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.820 elite, expensive Manhattan private school for 00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:53.679 the wealthy. Which is exactly what they were 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.340 trying not to be. Right. And it seems that rather 00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:59.820 than betray that core mission, or perhaps because 00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.179 they simply couldn't find a way to square that 00:15:02.179 --> 00:15:04.820 financial circle, they chose to close. It's startling 00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:08.139 to think about they survived the height of McCarthyism. 00:15:08.139 --> 00:15:11.620 Yeah. They navigated the massive social turbulence 00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:15.000 of the 60s. They hosted some of the most radical 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.399 thinkers of the 20th century. And they were taken 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.639 down by real estate prices. It's a very New York 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:21.840 story, unfortunately. It really is. But still, 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:26.320 1944 to 1971, that is 27 years. It's a full generation 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.159 of kids. It is a really significant run. Think 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.320 about the arc of history they covered in that 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:34.509 time. It's immense. They started during the global 00:15:34.509 --> 00:15:37.330 war against fascism. They went through the intense 00:15:37.330 --> 00:15:40.009 paranoia of the Cold War. The explosion of the 00:15:40.009 --> 00:15:42.649 civil rights movement. The counterculture of 00:15:42.649 --> 00:15:45.570 the late 60s. And through all of it, they didn't 00:15:45.570 --> 00:15:47.370 just watch it happen from the sidelines. They 00:15:47.370 --> 00:15:49.570 were active participants. Exactly. So when we 00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:51.490 look back at the whole scope of the downtown 00:15:51.490 --> 00:15:54.649 community school based on these sources, what's 00:15:54.649 --> 00:15:56.909 the big takeaway for you? What is the main nugget 00:15:56.909 --> 00:15:59.779 of wisdom we can pull from this? For me, it's 00:15:59.779 --> 00:16:02.759 really about the deep interconnectedness of culture 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.539 and education. Expand on that a bit. Well, you 00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:09.759 had folklore. You had folk music. Political activism 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:13.019 and primary education all swirling together in 00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:16.059 one single building. It proves that a school 00:16:16.059 --> 00:16:17.759 isn't just a neutral place where you download 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.620 facts into a child's brain. A school is always 00:16:20.620 --> 00:16:22.700 a reflection of its community's highest ideals. 00:16:23.019 --> 00:16:25.379 That's a great way to put it. DCS was a direct 00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.940 mirror for that specific, highly intellectual, 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.000 leftist, artistic community in mid -century Manhattan. 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.620 And it shows that education is mostly what happens 00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:36.720 in the hallways and who you see in the cafeteria. 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:39.559 Right. The values the institution models in its 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:41.940 hiring and its actions, not just what's written 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:43.679 on the blackboard. Absolutely. For them, the 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.139 curriculum really was the community itself. It 00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:48.259 makes you wonder, though, if you walked past 00:16:48.259 --> 00:16:51.399 235 East 11th Street today, like we said at the 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.299 very beginning, you would never know. Not a clue. 00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:55.379 You'd never know Pete Seeger was in there teaching 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:58.659 the banjo to seven -year -olds or that Mama Africa 00:16:58.659 --> 00:17:01.440 was outside picking up her kids. The building 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.150 is... bricks now. The bricks remain, but the 00:17:04.150 --> 00:17:06.970 grand experiment is history. Which brings us 00:17:06.970 --> 00:17:08.990 to a final thought I want to leave with all of 00:17:08.990 --> 00:17:12.130 you listening. We look at DCS as this incredible 00:17:12.130 --> 00:17:15.230 triumph of values. They hired the blacklisted. 00:17:15.410 --> 00:17:18.109 They actively supported civil rights protesters. 00:17:18.690 --> 00:17:21.089 It was a beautiful social experiment. But it 00:17:21.089 --> 00:17:23.990 failed because of a mortgage. Exactly. It raises 00:17:23.990 --> 00:17:26.309 a really tough question about the true sustainability 00:17:26.309 --> 00:17:29.490 of idealism. So here's what I want you to chew 00:17:29.490 --> 00:17:32.839 on after you finish listening. Can a school or 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.420 really any idealistic institution remain truly 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:39.059 experimental and community focused in the long 00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:41.819 run? Or is it doomed? Right. Is a model like 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:44.279 the downtown community school destined to burn 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.359 bright and then fade away simply because the 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.599 cold, hard logic of the real estate market? doesn't 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:52.740 care about your mission statement. That is the 00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:55.259 million -dollar question right there. Or in today's 00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:57.619 Manhattan market, the $10 million question. True. 00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:00.640 Well, thanks for taking this deep dive with us 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.000 into the lost world of the downtown community 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.920 school. We'll see you on the next one.