WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.660 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Today, we are 00:00:02.660 --> 00:00:06.139 tackling a subject that, quite honestly, has 00:00:06.139 --> 00:00:09.080 achieved a level of cultural saturation that 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:11.640 I don't think anyone could have predicted ten, 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:14.019 maybe even five years ago. Oh, absolutely not. 00:00:14.179 --> 00:00:16.079 I mean, you see it in blockbuster movies, you 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.980 see it in hit TV shows like Stranger Things, 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:21.539 and you see it being played by massive celebrities 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:24.300 on Twitch. We are, of course, talking about the 00:00:24.300 --> 00:00:26.870 grandfather of them all. Dungeons and Dragons. 00:00:26.929 --> 00:00:29.829 It is everywhere now. And it is fascinating because 00:00:29.829 --> 00:00:31.989 for the longest time, this was the exact definition 00:00:31.989 --> 00:00:35.630 of niche. It was it was the ultimate basement 00:00:35.630 --> 00:00:40.070 hobby. And now it's a billion dollar brand. Exactly. 00:00:40.070 --> 00:00:42.170 And that is the tension we are going to explore 00:00:42.170 --> 00:00:44.170 today. I've been reading through this massive 00:00:44.170 --> 00:00:46.189 stack of documents you sent over the history, 00:00:46.369 --> 00:00:48.429 the business analysis, the accounts of the various 00:00:48.429 --> 00:00:50.570 controversies. And the thing that just blows 00:00:50.570 --> 00:00:53.429 my mind is the sheer improbability of it all. 00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:55.799 We are talking about a game that started in 1974 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:58.740 with a production budget of, what, $2 ,000? Yeah, 00:00:58.820 --> 00:01:01.299 $2 ,000. And only about $100 of that actually 00:01:01.299 --> 00:01:03.619 went to the artwork. Which explains a lot if 00:01:03.619 --> 00:01:05.599 you've ever seen that original white box. Right. 00:01:05.620 --> 00:01:07.739 But seriously, this is a game based on arithmetic, 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:11.620 on improvisation, and on these funny -shaped 00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:14.519 dice. By all logic, it should have been a passing 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:18.219 fad. Instead, it survived the satanic panic of 00:01:18.219 --> 00:01:20.920 the 80s. It survived corporate bankruptcy in 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:23.819 the 90s. And it survived the entire digital revolution, 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.060 which was supposed to make pen and paper games 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:28.799 completely obsolete. And not only survived, but 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:31.859 thrived. It is essentially the cockroach of pop 00:01:31.859 --> 00:01:33.620 culture. And I mean that in the best possible 00:01:33.620 --> 00:01:36.280 way. So our mission today for this deep dive 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:39.420 is to unpack that survival story. We're going 00:01:39.420 --> 00:01:41.599 to look at the origins in the wargaming scene, 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:44.400 the actual mechanics that make it tick, the wild 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:46.819 business decisions that almost killed it, and 00:01:46.819 --> 00:01:49.200 the modern corporate wars that are defining its 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:51.640 future right now. And we have to answer the big 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:53.480 question, really. Here. How does a game that 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.159 requires you to read 300 pages of rules before 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.560 you even start playing become the coolest thing 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:00.519 in entertainment? Let's start at the very beginning. 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.310 Section one, the origin story. Because before 00:02:04.310 --> 00:02:07.060 there were dungeons, And before there were dragons, 00:02:07.260 --> 00:02:10.080 there were war games. And the sources paint a 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.099 picture of a gaming landscape in the late 60s 00:02:13.099 --> 00:02:16.419 and early 70s that was, well, it was very different 00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:19.000 from the chaotic energy of a modern D &D table. 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:21.099 It was incredibly different. To understand D 00:02:21.099 --> 00:02:22.900 &D, you really have to understand its parents. 00:02:23.139 --> 00:02:25.460 We are talking about miniature war gaming. This 00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:29.020 was a hobby for hardcore history buffs. You would 00:02:29.020 --> 00:02:31.400 have this massive table, often covered in sand 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:34.300 or green felt, to represent the terrain. You'd 00:02:34.300 --> 00:02:36.599 have model trees. little hills, and hundreds 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:39.039 of tiny lead miniatures representing historical 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.180 armies. Like Napoleonic, Civil War, Ancient Rome, 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:44.699 that sort of thing. Exactly. And the key thing 00:02:44.699 --> 00:02:46.919 to understand here is the mindset. In a war game, 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:49.039 you are a general. You are standing above the 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.479 battlefield looking down. You are moving an entire 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:53.900 regiment of infantry or a squadron of cavalry. 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.379 You aren't playing John the Soldier. You're playing 00:02:56.379 --> 00:02:58.560 the 5th Battalion. So it's very detached. It's 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.599 a simulation. It is a rigid simulation. You literally 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:04.099 have tape measures to check movement distances. 00:03:04.259 --> 00:03:07.080 You have complex charts to calculate artillery 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:09.639 fire trajectories. If a unit takes damage, you 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:11.699 remove a figure. But you don't mourn him. He's 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:14.340 just a casualty marker on a board. So the sources 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:17.520 mention a specific game called Chainmail as the 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:20.080 bridge between this rigid historical world and 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.560 the fantasy world. Chainmail is the critical 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.979 link here. It was published in 1971 by Gary Gygax 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:29.139 and Jeff Perrin. Now, Gygax is a name we are 00:03:29.139 --> 00:03:31.680 going to hear a lot today. He was based in Lake 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:34.939 Geneva, Wisconsin. Chainmail was, at its core, 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:39.509 a medieval war game. Knights, archers. Catapults. 00:03:39.610 --> 00:03:41.870 Just standard historical stuff. Mostly, yeah. 00:03:42.129 --> 00:03:44.030 But Gygax did something really interesting. He 00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:46.150 added a fantasy supplement at the very back of 00:03:46.150 --> 00:03:49.110 the book. He loved pulp fantasy stories, Conan 00:03:49.110 --> 00:03:51.590 the Barbarian, Lord of the Rings. So he wrote 00:03:51.590 --> 00:03:53.590 rules for what happens if you put a dragon on 00:03:53.590 --> 00:03:55.909 the battlefield. Or a wizard who can throw a 00:03:55.909 --> 00:03:57.669 fireball like it's an artillery shell. But even 00:03:57.669 --> 00:03:58.949 then, you're still playing a war game, right? 00:03:59.030 --> 00:04:00.810 I mean, the wizard is just a tank with a pointy 00:04:00.810 --> 00:04:03.789 hat. Precisely. You are still commanding units. 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:07.580 The psychological shift, the actual spark that 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:10.039 created role -playing games, came from a different 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:13.620 guy entirely. Gabe Arneson. Yes, this is the 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:15.240 part of the history I find most compelling in 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.240 the sources. The Bronstein games. This is deep 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.860 lore, but it is so essential. Arneson was part 00:04:21.860 --> 00:04:24.040 of a group in the Twin Cities playing these highly 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:26.959 experimental games run by a guy named David Weasley. 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:30.100 The scenario was a fictional town called Bronstein 00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:33.160 during the Napoleonic Wars. But instead of commanding 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:35.759 armies, Weasley gave the players individual roles. 00:04:35.939 --> 00:04:38.399 He'd say, you are the mayor. You are the student 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:40.819 radical. You are the colonel. So the objective 00:04:40.819 --> 00:04:43.399 isn't capture the hill. It's, I don't know, keep 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:45.980 the town from rioting or distribute these pamphlets. 00:04:46.139 --> 00:04:48.480 Exactly. And Arneson loved this. He realized 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:50.300 that the fun wasn't in the geometry of the cannon 00:04:50.300 --> 00:04:53.339 fire. It was in the negotiation, the bluffing, 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.009 the inhabiting of a persona. So he took that 00:04:56.009 --> 00:04:58.209 individual concept and applied it to his own 00:04:58.209 --> 00:05:00.550 fantasy setting, which he called Blackmoor. And 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:02.589 this is the aha moment. He uses the chainmail 00:05:02.589 --> 00:05:04.490 rules for combat because they work mathematically, 00:05:04.850 --> 00:05:07.529 but he changes the scale from an army to a one 00:05:07.529 --> 00:05:09.930 -to -one ratio. That is the birth of the RPG 00:05:09.930 --> 00:05:12.589 right there. The shift from unit to character. 00:05:13.769 --> 00:05:15.769 Arneson introduced concepts that we completely 00:05:15.769 --> 00:05:18.509 take for granted now. He introduced the idea 00:05:18.509 --> 00:05:20.470 that if you survive a dungeon, you get stronger. 00:05:20.990 --> 00:05:23.470 You gain experience points. You level up. You 00:05:23.470 --> 00:05:25.509 have hit points that replenish. He essentially 00:05:25.509 --> 00:05:28.089 invented the save game and the skill tree before 00:05:28.089 --> 00:05:30.769 video games even existed. He really did. He created 00:05:30.769 --> 00:05:33.709 a continuous narrative. In a war game, once the 00:05:33.709 --> 00:05:36.500 battle is over, you reset the board. In Arneson's 00:05:36.500 --> 00:05:38.800 Blackmoor, if you killed the dragon, the dragon 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.639 stayed dead next week. Your actions had permanence. 00:05:41.740 --> 00:05:44.560 So Arneson has this wild, imaginative mess of 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:46.720 a game in Blackmoor. Gygax has the publishing 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:48.980 drive and the wargaming structure over in Lake 00:05:48.980 --> 00:05:51.860 Geneva. And they meet up. Right. Arneson travels 00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:54.779 to Lake Geneva and runs a game for Gygax. And 00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:58.180 Gygax, to his credit, immediately sees the brilliance 00:05:58.180 --> 00:06:00.459 of it. He realizes this isn't just a variant 00:06:00.459 --> 00:06:03.759 of wargaming. It's a completely new medium. They 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:05.779 agree to collaborate. They call it the fantasy 00:06:05.779 --> 00:06:08.860 game initially. Gygax takes the lead on codifying 00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:11.139 the rules, organizing all the tables and turning 00:06:11.139 --> 00:06:14.079 Arneson's improvisational style into a marketable 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.980 product. And we have to talk about the name because 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:20.220 the fantasy game is just terrible. It is incredibly 00:06:20.220 --> 00:06:23.759 bland. The story goes that Gygax had a list of 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:26.439 potential titles. He didn't run a focus group 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:29.560 or hire a marketing firm. He read the list to 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:31.819 his two -year -old daughter, Cindy. A two -year 00:06:31.819 --> 00:06:34.399 -old? A toddler, yeah. And she heard the list 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.779 and apparently said, oh, daddy, I like Dungeons 00:06:36.779 --> 00:06:39.720 & Dragons best. That is incredible. A two -year 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:42.000 -old girl named the most masculine, nerdy property 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.639 of the 20th century. It's perfect, though. It 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.300 perfectly describes the two core elements, the 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:50.600 setting, which is the dungeon, and the antagonist, 00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:53.560 the dragon. So they launch in 1974. They form 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.300 a company called Tactical Studies Rules, or TSR. 00:06:56.459 --> 00:06:59.180 And we mentioned the budget earlier, $2 ,000. 00:07:00.220 --> 00:07:02.339 What did the actual product look like? Because 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:03.920 I think for you listening, you probably imagine 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.040 the glossy hardcovers we have today. Oh, not 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.560 even close. Yeah. The original Dungeons & Dragons, 00:07:08.740 --> 00:07:12.199 what fans call OD &D or the white box, was three 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.279 little staple -bound booklets inside a woodgrain 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:17.860 -colored cardboard box. It looked like something 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:20.079 you'd print at a local church bake sale. And 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.000 the rules were cryptic, to see the least. Cryptic 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.819 is being generous. The techs assumed you were 00:07:25.819 --> 00:07:28.720 already a hardcore wargamer. It referred you 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.939 to the chain mail rule book for combat. It referred 00:07:31.939 --> 00:07:33.920 you to a completely different board game called 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:36.620 outdoor survival just for wilderness travel. 00:07:36.779 --> 00:07:39.600 It was disorganized. The art was amateurish and 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:41.800 there were tyco's everywhere. And yet and yet 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:45.360 it was magic because despite the mess. The promise 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.779 of total freedom was there. You could do anything. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.819 You weren't limited by the buttons on a controller 00:07:49.819 --> 00:07:52.360 or the spaces on a board. The viral growth mentioned 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:54.579 in the sources is just staggering. They sell 00:07:54.579 --> 00:07:57.860 1 ,000 copies in year one, 3 ,000 in year two. 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:00.660 It spread like a contagion through college campuses 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.420 and high schools. One person would buy the box, 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:05.819 learn the rules, and then run a game for five 00:08:05.819 --> 00:08:08.120 friends. Those five friends would get hooked. 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:10.279 buy their own boxes, and run games for five more 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:13.259 people. It was exponential growth, driven purely 00:08:13.259 --> 00:08:16.360 by the quality of the experience. Okay, before 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:19.399 we get into the business drama, and oh boy, the 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:21.920 documents show there is a lot of drama, let's 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:24.199 actually explain the game. Because we keep saying 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:27.620 total freedom, but there are rules. For the listener 00:08:27.620 --> 00:08:30.839 who has never sat at a table, what is the core 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:34.000 loop? At its heart, D &D is a conversation loop. 00:08:34.490 --> 00:08:36.669 It has a specific rhythm. You have the dungeon 00:08:36.669 --> 00:08:39.549 master, the DM, and you have the players. The 00:08:39.549 --> 00:08:42.029 DM is the computer, basically. Yes, the DM is 00:08:42.029 --> 00:08:44.649 the CPU and the graphics card. They describe 00:08:44.649 --> 00:08:47.610 the reality. They say, you stand in a dripping 00:08:47.610 --> 00:08:50.409 stone corridor. There is a wooden door to the 00:08:50.409 --> 00:08:52.809 north and a goblin sleeping on a chair to the 00:08:52.809 --> 00:08:55.090 south. And the players don't have a menu of options. 00:08:55.149 --> 00:08:57.009 They just say what they want to do. Right. A 00:08:57.009 --> 00:08:59.049 player says, I want to sneak up on the goblin 00:08:59.049 --> 00:09:01.809 and tie his shoelaces together. That is the intention. 00:09:02.049 --> 00:09:03.629 And this is where the game mechanics kick in. 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.620 Because you can't just say, I win. Exactly. The 00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:08.840 DM determines the difficulty of that action, 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.960 and usually they ask for a roll. This introduces 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:14.179 the element of chance, which creates tension. 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:17.100 Let's talk about the hardware here. The dice, 00:09:17.299 --> 00:09:19.940 the polyhedrals. The math rocks. You have the 00:09:19.940 --> 00:09:24.039 D4, D6, D8, G10, D12, and the absolute star of 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.879 the show, the D20. Why the D20? Why does everything 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:29.080 revolve around that specific shape? It comes 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:31.419 out of probability. In wargaming, they often 00:09:31.419 --> 00:09:34.720 use six -sided dice, the d6. But the probability 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:39.159 curve of a d6 is chunky. A d20 allows for 5 % 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:41.980 increments. Gives you a much wider range of outcomes, 00:09:42.179 --> 00:09:44.659 from a critical miss if you roll a 1 to a critical 00:09:44.659 --> 00:09:47.080 hit if you roll a 20. It feels much more granular. 00:09:47.299 --> 00:09:50.000 So the mechanic is roll a d20, add a number from 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.940 your character sheet, and try to beat a target 00:09:51.940 --> 00:09:54.860 number the DM has in their head. That is 90 % 00:09:54.860 --> 00:09:56.870 of the game right there. Armor class is just 00:09:56.870 --> 00:09:58.870 the target number you need to hit to damage someone. 00:09:59.450 --> 00:10:01.330 Difficulty class is the target number to pick 00:10:01.330 --> 00:10:03.629 a lock. And those numbers you add come from your 00:10:03.629 --> 00:10:06.210 ability scores. Strength, dexterity, constitution, 00:10:06.789 --> 00:10:09.870 intelligence, wisdom, charisma. These six stats 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:12.149 are iconic. They define who your character is. 00:10:12.789 --> 00:10:15.429 A barbarian has high strength, but maybe low 00:10:15.429 --> 00:10:18.929 intelligence. A bard has high charisma. It effectively 00:10:18.929 --> 00:10:21.750 quantifies a personality. It does. It gamifies 00:10:21.750 --> 00:10:24.230 human capability. I also want to touch on progression 00:10:24.230 --> 00:10:27.769 because the sources emphasize this as a key addictive 00:10:27.769 --> 00:10:30.110 element of the design. This is the Skinner box 00:10:30.110 --> 00:10:33.570 element. You do things, kill monsters, solve 00:10:33.570 --> 00:10:36.340 riddles, and you get a reward. Experience points 00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:39.460 or XP. You accumulate enough and you level up. 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:42.299 Your numbers go up. You get new powers. It creates 00:10:42.299 --> 00:10:46.500 a incredibly powerful sense of investment. You 00:10:46.500 --> 00:10:48.700 aren't just playing a game. You are building 00:10:48.700 --> 00:10:51.360 something over months or even years. And that 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:53.039 leads to the difference between an adventure 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.860 and a campaign. Think of it like television. 00:10:56.059 --> 00:10:58.629 An adventure is a single episode. There is a 00:10:58.629 --> 00:11:01.149 problem. You solve it. Credits roll. A campaign 00:11:01.149 --> 00:11:03.889 is the entire series. It's the same cast of characters 00:11:03.889 --> 00:11:06.629 going through arc after arc. A campaign can last 00:11:06.629 --> 00:11:09.090 for years of real time. I have known groups that 00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:11.129 have played the same campaign for decades. That 00:11:11.129 --> 00:11:13.070 is real commitment. Okay, so we have the game. 00:11:13.149 --> 00:11:16.129 It's growing. It is 1977. And this is where TSR 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:18.009 makes a business decision that reading about 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:19.730 it now on the source material feels absolutely 00:11:19.730 --> 00:11:22.690 baffling. They split the game into two incompatible 00:11:22.690 --> 00:11:25.350 product lines. The two -pronged strategy. It 00:11:25.350 --> 00:11:27.350 is one of the most confusing eras in the game's 00:11:27.350 --> 00:11:31.879 history. From 1977 to 1999, D &D wasn't one game. 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.659 It was two. Break it down for us. What were the 00:11:34.659 --> 00:11:37.500 prongs? Prong one was basic Dungeons & Dragons. 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:39.940 This was the famous red box you might have seen 00:11:39.940 --> 00:11:42.340 in Stranger Things. It was sold in toy stores. 00:11:42.659 --> 00:11:45.659 It was aimed at younger players. The rules were 00:11:45.659 --> 00:11:48.019 streamlined, edited by a guy named John Eric 00:11:48.019 --> 00:11:51.000 Holmes, and later refined by Moldvay and Menser. 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.559 It was D &D lite. And prong two. Advanced Dungeons 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:57.480 & Dragons, or AD &D. These were the hardcover 00:11:57.480 --> 00:11:59.980 books, the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's 00:11:59.980 --> 00:12:02.360 Guide, the Monster Manual. This was for the serious 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:05.659 hobbyist. It was rules -heavy, structured, complex, 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:07.879 gritty. But the crazy part is that they weren't 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:09.399 compatible, right? You couldn't just take your 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.379 character from the basic game and play in an 00:12:11.379 --> 00:12:13.379 advanced game. Not without a lot of conversion 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:15.840 work. The math was different. The way classes 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.899 worked was different. In basic, elf was a class. 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.440 You were just an elf. In advanced, you were an 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.240 elf fighter or an elf wizard. Why would they 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.340 fracture their own audience like that? Well... 00:12:25.529 --> 00:12:27.490 There's the official reason, which was market 00:12:27.490 --> 00:12:30.509 segmentation. One game for casuals, one for hardcore 00:12:30.509 --> 00:12:33.289 gamers. But there was also a widely believed 00:12:33.289 --> 00:12:37.289 theory about royalties. Ah, follow the money. 00:12:37.649 --> 00:12:41.370 Always. Dave Arneson, the co -creator, was entitled 00:12:41.370 --> 00:12:44.750 to royalties on Dungeons & Dragons. Gygax argued 00:12:44.750 --> 00:12:47.169 that Advanced Dungeons & Dragons was a completely 00:12:47.169 --> 00:12:49.850 different game, and therefore Arneson wasn't 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:51.690 entitled to the same royalties on that line. 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.759 That is incredibly cynical. It was a highly litigious 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.379 time. Arneson eventually sued, and they settled. 00:12:57.580 --> 00:13:00.179 But that split defined the game for 20 years. 00:13:00.299 --> 00:13:02.559 It created a massive amount of confusion in the 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:04.529 market. And speaking of confusion, let's talk 00:13:04.529 --> 00:13:06.970 about the content changes. The sources mentioned 00:13:06.970 --> 00:13:09.409 that when A .D. and D. Second Edition came out 00:13:09.409 --> 00:13:12.750 in 1989, it was strangely sanitized. It was. 00:13:12.850 --> 00:13:14.690 They made some very deliberate changes. They 00:13:14.690 --> 00:13:17.230 removed the assassin class entirely. They removed 00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:20.049 the half -orc species. And most notably, they 00:13:20.049 --> 00:13:22.190 removed all demons and devils from the monster 00:13:22.190 --> 00:13:25.009 manual. Wait, no demons in a game that is fundamentally 00:13:25.009 --> 00:13:28.570 about fighting evil? They renamed them. Demons 00:13:28.570 --> 00:13:31.990 became Tanari, and devils became Batizu. They 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:33.950 were desperately trying to hide the occult references. 00:13:34.389 --> 00:13:36.110 And this wasn't an artistic choice at all. This 00:13:36.110 --> 00:13:38.990 was a survival tactic. Because we have to talk 00:13:38.990 --> 00:13:41.029 about the elephant in the room from the 1980s, 00:13:41.049 --> 00:13:44.029 the satanic panic. We really do. If you are under 00:13:44.029 --> 00:13:46.950 the age of 40, it is hard to explain just how 00:13:46.950 --> 00:13:49.789 intense this was. This wasn't just parents think 00:13:49.789 --> 00:13:52.490 video games make you lazy. This was mainstream 00:13:52.490 --> 00:13:56.009 media and major religious organizations genuinely 00:13:56.009 --> 00:13:58.340 believing that... that D &D was an instruction 00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:00.840 manual for witchcraft. It sounds so ludicrous 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:03.740 now. It was a full -blown moral panic, and it 00:14:03.740 --> 00:14:06.779 was sparked by a specific tragedy that the media 00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:09.740 just latched onto, the case of James Dallas Egbert 00:14:09.740 --> 00:14:12.379 III. Walk us through this. This is 1979. Yes. 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.100 James Dallas Egbert III was a student at Michigan 00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:18.039 State University. He was a prodigy, only 16 years 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.279 old, but he was dealing with a lot of intense 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.320 pressure. He was struggling with drug abuse, 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.840 he was closeted, and he was suffering from severe 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.590 depression. He went missing. And his family hires 00:14:27.590 --> 00:14:31.070 a private investigator. William Deere. And this 00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:34.529 PI finds out that Egbert played D &D. And he 00:14:34.529 --> 00:14:36.669 cooks up this sensational theory for the press. 00:14:37.190 --> 00:14:39.450 He tells reporters that Egbert had gone into 00:14:39.450 --> 00:14:41.850 the steam tunnels under the university to play 00:14:41.850 --> 00:14:44.470 a live -action version of D &D and had gotten 00:14:44.470 --> 00:14:47.370 lost or had a psychotic break. The steam tunnel 00:14:47.370 --> 00:14:49.629 myth. I have heard this. It was pure fiction. 00:14:49.809 --> 00:14:51.789 Egbert was actually hiding in a friend's house. 00:14:52.430 --> 00:14:54.289 The game had absolutely nothing to do with his 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.370 disappearance. Tragically, he did eventually 00:14:56.370 --> 00:14:59.110 die by suicide a year later, but again, it was 00:14:59.110 --> 00:15:01.070 due to mental health struggles, not a fantasy 00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:02.570 game. Yeah, but the narrative was out there. 00:15:02.590 --> 00:15:04.370 The damage was done. It was too good a story 00:15:04.370 --> 00:15:07.110 to check. It inspired a novel called Mazes and 00:15:07.110 --> 00:15:09.330 Monsters, which became a TV movie starring a 00:15:09.330 --> 00:15:12.009 very young Tom Hanks. The movie depicts a college 00:15:12.009 --> 00:15:15.190 student who plays the game, loses his mind, thinks 00:15:15.190 --> 00:15:17.470 he is a cleric, and tries to jump off the World 00:15:17.470 --> 00:15:20.649 Trade Center to fly. That is, wow, that is subtle. 00:15:20.789 --> 00:15:23.480 It terrified parents. You had organizations like 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.000 BADD bothered about Dungeons and Dragons, founded 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.460 by Patricia Poling. She went on 60 Minutes, she 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:31.059 was on Geraldo, claiming that D &D was a literal 00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:33.759 recruitment tool for satanic cults. So you have 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.820 the church, the media, and parents all attacking 00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:38.720 the game. This should have killed TSR entirely. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.269 But here is the massive irony. The Streisand 00:15:42.269 --> 00:15:45.070 effect. The more they told kids, this game is 00:15:45.070 --> 00:15:47.889 dangerous, it's a cult, it's forbidden, the more 00:15:47.889 --> 00:15:50.190 kids wanted to play it. It gave the game an edge. 00:15:50.250 --> 00:15:53.350 It became rebellious. Exactly. Sales peaked in 00:15:53.350 --> 00:15:56.610 1982 and 1983, right at the height of the panic. 00:15:56.809 --> 00:15:59.669 They were selling millions of copies. The controversy 00:15:59.669 --> 00:16:01.889 bought them a level of publicity they never could 00:16:01.889 --> 00:16:03.730 have afforded otherwise. And just to set the 00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:05.490 record straight, because we always try to look 00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:08.269 at all the source material impartially, the sources 00:16:08.269 --> 00:16:11.009 do mention actual scientific... research on this. 00:16:11.149 --> 00:16:14.230 Yes. In the years since, studies by the CDC, 00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:17.269 the American Association of Suicidology, and 00:16:17.269 --> 00:16:19.190 psychologists like Armando Simon have looked 00:16:19.190 --> 00:16:22.009 deeply into this. They found zero correlation 00:16:22.009 --> 00:16:25.850 between D &D and suicide or emotional instability. 00:16:26.289 --> 00:16:28.830 In fact, modern research suggests the exact opposite, 00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:32.730 right? Correct. It suggests D &D improves socialization. 00:16:33.029 --> 00:16:36.289 It teaches empathy, teamwork, and problem solving. 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.740 It turns out that spending your Friday night 00:16:38.740 --> 00:16:41.200 cooperatively solving complex puzzles with your 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:43.960 friends is actually good for your brain. Who 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:47.980 knew? So TSR survives the panic, but they can't 00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:50.019 survive their own bad business habit. No, they 00:16:50.019 --> 00:16:52.620 really couldn't. By the late 90s, the two -pronged 00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:54.940 strategy and the massive flood of different products 00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:57.039 had caught up with them. They were publishing 00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:59.220 way too many books, splitting their audience 00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:01.779 into smaller and smaller factions, and drowning 00:17:01.779 --> 00:17:05.559 in debt. By 1997, TSR was functionally bankrupt. 00:17:05.859 --> 00:17:07.579 They couldn't even pay their printers to make 00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:10.180 the books. Enter the White Knight, or the Dark 00:17:10.180 --> 00:17:12.400 Wizard, depending on your perspective. Wizards 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.799 of the Coast. Wizards of the Coast, or Woody 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.259 C., was a Seattle -based company that had struck 00:17:17.259 --> 00:17:19.519 absolute gold with Magic the Gathering. They 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:23.220 had cash. So they bought TSR in 1997. And this 00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:25.369 marks the beginning of the modern era. Their 00:17:25.369 --> 00:17:27.609 first big move was third edition in the year 00:17:27.609 --> 00:17:30.349 2000. And reading the analysis, this wasn't just 00:17:30.349 --> 00:17:32.609 a rules update. It was a fundamental shift in 00:17:32.609 --> 00:17:35.930 how the entire RPG industry worked. It was. First, 00:17:36.049 --> 00:17:38.769 they finally reunited the game. No more basic 00:17:38.769 --> 00:17:41.529 versus advanced. Just Dungeons and Dragons. They 00:17:41.529 --> 00:17:43.589 streamlined the rules around the D20 system. 00:17:43.970 --> 00:17:46.730 But the real revolution was legal, not mechanical. 00:17:47.109 --> 00:17:51.119 The open game license? Or OGL. I want to spend 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:52.920 a moment here because this is a business strategy 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:54.960 that seems totally counterintuitive at first 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:59.319 glance. What exactly was the OGL? Ryan Dancy, 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.299 the brand manager at Woad TC, had a theory. He 00:18:02.299 --> 00:18:03.819 looked at the software industry and the open 00:18:03.819 --> 00:18:05.759 source movement. He decided to apply that to 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:08.759 tabletop games. The OGL effectively said, here 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.859 are the core mathematical rules of D &D. You... 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.059 Anyone can use them. You can write your own adventures, 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.319 your own settings, your own games using our engine, 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:18.660 and you don't have to pay us a dime. Why give 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:20.579 away the engine? That sounds like terrible business. 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:23.319 The network effect. The idea was that if everyone 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:26.720 is making content for the D20 system, then D20 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.819 becomes the universal language of RPGs. And since 00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:32.869 Wizards owns the core brand... the player's handbook, 00:18:33.069 --> 00:18:35.349 everyone will eventually have to buy that book 00:18:35.349 --> 00:18:37.049 to play all this other cool stuff that other 00:18:37.049 --> 00:18:39.430 people are making. It's the razor and blades 00:18:39.430 --> 00:18:41.529 model, but they let other people make the blades. 00:18:41.910 --> 00:18:44.130 Exactly. And it worked phenomenally well. It 00:18:44.130 --> 00:18:46.049 created a massive boom. The market was flooded 00:18:46.049 --> 00:18:50.009 with D20 products. It cemented D &D as the absolute 00:18:50.009 --> 00:18:51.829 king of the hill. But looking at the history 00:18:51.829 --> 00:18:54.630 here, it was a double -edged sword. Because when 00:18:54.630 --> 00:18:57.049 Wizards stumbled later on, that license came 00:18:57.049 --> 00:18:59.890 back to bite them. That brings us to 2008 in 00:18:59.890 --> 00:19:02.619 4th edition. The controversial edition. Highly 00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:05.440 controversial. Wizards tried to patch the game. 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:07.720 They saw the massive rise of World of Warcraft 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.740 and tried to make D &D play a bit more like an 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:13.420 MMO. It was very tactical, very balanced, very 00:19:13.420 --> 00:19:15.920 focused on great combat. And the fans hated it. 00:19:16.059 --> 00:19:18.779 It was very polarizing. Many felt it lost the 00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:21.640 soul of the game, the improvisation, the theater 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:24.000 of the mind. It felt like a rigid board game 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.529 again. And because of the OGL from the previous 00:19:26.529 --> 00:19:30.130 edition, a rival company, Paizo, saw a huge opening. 00:19:30.289 --> 00:19:33.150 Paizo was publishing D &D magazine content previously, 00:19:33.390 --> 00:19:35.569 right? Yes. And when Wizards switched to 4th 00:19:35.569 --> 00:19:38.210 edition, Paizo said, hey, we know a lot of you 00:19:38.210 --> 00:19:40.289 hate this new version, so we are going to keep 00:19:40.289 --> 00:19:42.930 publishing the old version 3 .5 with a fresh 00:19:42.930 --> 00:19:45.130 coat of paint. They called it Pathfinder. And 00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:48.069 because of the open game license, Wizards legally 00:19:48.069 --> 00:19:50.569 couldn't stop them. They had legally given away 00:19:50.569 --> 00:19:53.539 the keys to the castle. And for several years, 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.559 Pathfinder actually outsold Dungeons & Dragons. 00:19:56.819 --> 00:19:59.059 It was a major embarrassment for the market leader. 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:01.859 Which forces a huge course correction. And that 00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:05.700 brings us to 2014 and 5th edition, The Renaissance. 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:08.539 5th edition is the version most listeners probably 00:20:08.539 --> 00:20:11.359 know today. Wizards learned their lesson. They 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.000 spent years playtesting it with 75 ,000 volunteers. 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:17.799 That is a massive sample size for a tabletop 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:19.920 game. They wanted to know what D &D actually 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:22.599 felt like to the community. and the result was 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.440 a system that stripped away the heavy math of 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.099 3rd edition and the rigid tactics of 4th edition. 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.140 It went back to the philosophy of rulings, not 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:32.799 rules. It empowered the DM again. And the timing 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:35.240 was just perfect, because just as they released 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.940 this accessible, story -focused version of the 00:20:37.940 --> 00:20:40.400 game, the entire culture shifts. We have to talk 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:42.559 about the actual play phenomena. Critical role. 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.819 Critical role. The Adventure Zone, Dimension 00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:47.619 20. Suddenly, you had professional voice actors 00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:49.920 and comedians playing D &D on Twitch and YouTube. 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.779 I think this is the key to the modern boom. Before 00:20:52.779 --> 00:20:55.619 this, if you want to know what D &D was, you 00:20:55.619 --> 00:20:58.259 had to find a group of nerds in a basement and 00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:01.339 awkwardly ask to join. It was intimidating. Exactly. 00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:04.779 Now, you've just opened YouTube. You watch Matt 00:21:04.779 --> 00:21:06.900 Mercer tell a story. You see these professional 00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:09.920 actors crying, laughing, screaming. You realize, 00:21:10.059 --> 00:21:13.480 oh. It's not just math. It's collaborative storytelling. 00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:16.759 It completely demystified the hobby. The sources 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:19.759 cite some wild numbers here. In 2020, viewers 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:24.220 watched 150 million hours of D &D content. It 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:26.599 turned a participatory hobby into a spectator 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:29.019 sport. That is a fundamental shift in the business 00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:30.980 model. Plus, you have Stranger Things putting 00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:33.519 the red box on screen in front of millions of 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.420 Netflix subscribers. And framing it not as satanic. 00:21:36.859 --> 00:21:38.839 but as the thing that bonds these heroic kids 00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:41.160 together. It reclaimed the cultural narrative. 00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:43.380 So D &D is on top of the world. Sales are up 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:47.339 40 % in 2017, 52 % in 2018. But whenever there 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:49.740 is this much money on the table, things get complicated. 00:21:50.059 --> 00:21:52.059 And the last few years have been really rocky. 00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:55.059 Rocky is putting it mildly. The relationship 00:21:55.059 --> 00:21:56.980 between the community and the corporation has 00:21:56.980 --> 00:22:00.019 become very strained. Let's dive into the OGL 00:22:00.019 --> 00:22:03.849 1 .1 debacle in 2023. We just spent time praising 00:22:03.849 --> 00:22:06.529 the OGL for building the industry. Why did they 00:22:06.529 --> 00:22:08.910 try to kill it? Greed and control, basically. 00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:11.750 Yeah. Wizards of the Coast is owned by Hasbro. 00:22:12.170 --> 00:22:15.390 Hasbro is a massive toy conglomerate. They looked 00:22:15.390 --> 00:22:17.390 at D &D and saw a lot of people making money 00:22:17.390 --> 00:22:19.809 off their intellectual property using that old 00:22:19.809 --> 00:22:22.490 license. This is where the under -monetized quote 00:22:22.490 --> 00:22:25.789 comes in. Yes. In a fireside chat, Hasbro executives 00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:29.559 described D &D as... under -monetized. They compared 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:31.619 it to video games where they can sell cosmetic 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:34.319 skins and battle passes. They wanted to squeeze 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.559 more revenue out of the user base. So they tried 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:38.680 to revoke the old license and force creators 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.619 to sign a new, highly restrictive one that demanded 00:22:41.619 --> 00:22:44.630 royalties. And the community revolted. It was 00:22:44.630 --> 00:22:47.170 instant and unified. It wasn't just angry tweets. 00:22:47.269 --> 00:22:49.990 It was wallet voting. Tens of thousands of people 00:22:49.990 --> 00:22:52.049 canceled their subscriptions to D &D Beyond, 00:22:52.269 --> 00:22:54.849 which is the official digital tool set. It literally 00:22:54.849 --> 00:22:57.150 crashed their unsubscribe page. They hit them 00:22:57.150 --> 00:22:59.470 where it hurts, the recurring revenue. And it 00:22:59.470 --> 00:23:03.119 worked. Hasbro capitulated completely. They not 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.500 only withdrew the new license, but they released 00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:08.160 the core rules of 5th edition into the Creative 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.579 Commons. Explain the significance of that for 00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:12.920 the listener, Creative Commons. It means the 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:14.900 text of the game mechanics now belongs to the 00:23:14.900 --> 00:23:18.160 public. Hasbro can never, ever try to take it 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:21.359 back. It is irrevocably free for anyone to use 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:23.789 forever. It was a total victory for the fans. 00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:26.569 But the tension remains. We see it in the layoffs. 00:23:26.569 --> 00:23:29.769 That's the really bitter pill. 2023 was the biggest 00:23:29.769 --> 00:23:32.150 year in the brand's history. You had Baldur's 00:23:32.150 --> 00:23:34.269 Gate 3, which swept all the Game of the Year 00:23:34.269 --> 00:23:36.690 awards. You had the movie Honor Among Thieves, 00:23:36.769 --> 00:23:39.710 which was critically acclaimed. And yet, Hasbro 00:23:39.710 --> 00:23:42.410 laid off 1 ,100 people, including many of the 00:23:42.410 --> 00:23:45.190 veteran designers who built 5th edition. They 00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:47.650 even cut 90 % of the team working on their new 00:23:47.650 --> 00:23:50.589 virtual tabletop. It feels like a massive disconnect. 00:23:50.710 --> 00:23:53.410 The brand is flourishing, but the people making 00:23:53.410 --> 00:23:56.150 it are being treated like line items on a spreadsheet. 00:23:56.369 --> 00:23:58.890 It reinforces that feeling of community versus 00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:02.029 corporation. There was also the inclusion controversy 00:24:02.029 --> 00:24:05.250 with Spelljammer. And remember, we're just reporting 00:24:05.250 --> 00:24:08.190 what is in the documents here. Yes, the Hadozi 00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:10.730 issue. They released a space fantasy setting 00:24:10.730 --> 00:24:13.809 that included a race of monkey people, the Hadozi. 00:24:14.170 --> 00:24:16.890 The backstory provided for them had uncomfortable 00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:19.329 parallels to real -world slavery narratives, 00:24:19.569 --> 00:24:21.890 and the artwork was criticized for resembling 00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:24.730 minstrel imagery. How did that happen in 2022? 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:28.390 It was a failure of editorial oversight. They 00:24:28.390 --> 00:24:31.069 apologized and scrubbed the content from digital 00:24:31.069 --> 00:24:33.349 versions and future printings, but it led to 00:24:33.349 --> 00:24:36.250 a policy change. They now require cultural consultants 00:24:36.250 --> 00:24:39.579 on every product. And notably, they stopped using 00:24:39.579 --> 00:24:41.920 the word race in the game. Right. In the new 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.019 2024 books, it is referred to as species. Which 00:24:45.019 --> 00:24:47.720 brings us to the present day, the 2024 revision, 00:24:47.980 --> 00:24:51.119 Project 1D &D. What is happening right now is 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.640 the sixth edition. They're very careful not to 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.599 call it that. They insist it is revised 5th edition. 00:24:56.819 --> 00:24:58.720 They do not want to split the player base again 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.440 like they did back in 2008, but they are releasing 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.740 new versions of the Player's Handbook, Dungeon 00:25:03.740 --> 00:25:06.160 Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. But there's 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.579 a brain drain mentioned in the notes. This is 00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:11.019 the thing to watch. The architects of 5th edition, 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.880 Jeremy Crawford, Chris Perkins, are still there, 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.019 but many others have left. And where are they 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:19.099 going? They're going to companies like Darrington 00:25:19.099 --> 00:25:22.400 Press, which is owned by Critical Role, or MCDM. 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:24.880 The third -party creators are becoming the main 00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.440 rivals. Exactly. The talent is migrating from 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.619 the corporation to the community -led studios. 00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:32.920 It signals a shift in where the creative energy 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:35.509 of the hobby truly lives. So let's wrap this 00:25:35.509 --> 00:25:37.690 up. We have covered 50 years of history, from 00:25:37.690 --> 00:25:40.809 a woodgrain box to a digital empire. What is 00:25:40.809 --> 00:25:43.730 the legacy here? The legacy is that D &D changed 00:25:43.730 --> 00:25:46.690 how we think about games. It introduced the idea 00:25:46.690 --> 00:25:49.450 of the party dynamic. It introduced the concept 00:25:49.450 --> 00:25:52.329 of leveling up and hit points, concepts that 00:25:52.329 --> 00:25:54.670 are now universal in almost every video game 00:25:54.670 --> 00:25:57.130 you play. It's successfully transitioned from 00:25:57.130 --> 00:26:00.029 a basement hobby for wargamers to a global entertainment 00:26:00.029 --> 00:26:03.049 brand streamed by millions. And as a final thought 00:26:03.049 --> 00:26:05.069 for you listening, something to chew on based 00:26:05.069 --> 00:26:07.170 on all these documents, we have this incredible 00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:10.289 contrast. The game is a creative, community -driven 00:26:10.289 --> 00:26:13.329 hobby. but it is also a corporate asset deemed 00:26:13.329 --> 00:26:15.509 under -monetized. It's a fundamental friction. 00:26:15.730 --> 00:26:18.710 Right. And with the core rules now in the Creative 00:26:18.710 --> 00:26:21.369 Commons and the original creators long gone, 00:26:21.529 --> 00:26:24.109 you have to ask, does the community even need 00:26:24.109 --> 00:26:27.029 the official publishers anymore? The game exists 00:26:27.029 --> 00:26:29.390 in the minds of the players, not just the books 00:26:29.390 --> 00:26:31.930 sold by Hasbro. Precisely. As long as you have 00:26:31.930 --> 00:26:34.910 guys and friends, you have D &D. No subscription 00:26:34.910 --> 00:26:37.589 required. That is a powerful place to end it. 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.079 The game belongs to the players. Thank you so 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:42.140 much for taking this deep dive with me. Always 00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:44.640 a pleasure. May all your hits be crits. And to 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.759 everyone listening, keep rolling. We'll see you 00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:47.180 next time.