WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.879 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we are opening 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:07.400 a file that I think keeps most of our listeners 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:09.919 awake at night. In fact, if you're listening 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:13.339 to this on your commute, or even worse, while 00:00:13.339 --> 00:00:15.560 you're trying to answer emails at 10 p .m., this 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:19.050 one is specifically for you. We are talking about 00:00:19.050 --> 00:00:22.190 the holy grail of modern existence. Oh, boy. 00:00:22.410 --> 00:00:24.629 Work -life balance. The white whale. The thing 00:00:24.629 --> 00:00:27.410 we're all chasing but never quite seem to catch. 00:00:27.570 --> 00:00:30.170 Exactly. And I think the standard story, the 00:00:30.170 --> 00:00:32.689 one we tell ourselves, is that we are uniquely 00:00:32.689 --> 00:00:35.070 broken. Right. We look at our smartphones. We 00:00:35.070 --> 00:00:37.590 look at Slack. We look at the fact that our boss 00:00:37.590 --> 00:00:40.649 can reach us literally anywhere. And we think, 00:00:40.670 --> 00:00:43.560 this is it. Technology has ruined us. We are 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:46.380 the burnout generation. It feels incredibly specific 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:49.000 to right now, doesn't it? The whole idea that 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.240 we're tethered to the office by this, I don't 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:53.140 know, this invisible electronic leash. Right. 00:00:53.259 --> 00:00:55.380 But and this is why I was so excited to go through 00:00:55.380 --> 00:00:57.380 the research stack you brought today. You were 00:00:57.380 --> 00:00:59.960 suggesting that we're completely wrong about 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:02.359 the timeline. This isn't just a millennial burnout 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:05.519 issue or a Zoom fatigue issue. You're telling 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:08.980 me that this struggle, this fight to draw a line 00:01:08.980 --> 00:01:12.530 between labor and life. It's actually one of 00:01:12.530 --> 00:01:15.189 the oldest tensions in human history. It is absolutely 00:01:15.189 --> 00:01:17.590 fundamental. I mean, if you look at the sources 00:01:17.590 --> 00:01:21.250 we have today, and they range from ancient philosophy 00:01:21.250 --> 00:01:24.609 texts to medieval monastic rules all the way 00:01:24.609 --> 00:01:27.590 to modern sociology, you see that human beings 00:01:27.590 --> 00:01:29.709 have been arguing about where work stops and 00:01:29.709 --> 00:01:33.030 life begins for, well, for at least 2 ,500 years. 00:01:33.250 --> 00:01:35.269 Wow. We've been trying to negotiate this treaty 00:01:35.269 --> 00:01:37.010 between our productive selves and our private 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:39.780 selves since... long, long before the iPhone 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:42.400 ever existed. That is simultaneously comforting 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.599 and incredibly depressing. It means we haven't 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:47.480 managed to solve it in two and a half millennia. 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:49.540 Well, you could say the nature of the battle 00:01:49.540 --> 00:01:52.180 changes, but the war remains the same. And before 00:01:52.180 --> 00:01:54.359 we really jump into the history, which gets really 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:57.260 fascinating when we look at how the idea of time 00:01:57.260 --> 00:02:00.120 itself was basically invented, I think it is 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.079 crucial that we actually define what we're talking 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:04.519 about. Because work -life balance has become 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.120 such a buzzword, It's almost lost its teeth. 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:09.500 Yeah. It's something you see on a corporate values 00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:11.819 poster right next to a stock photo of someone 00:02:11.819 --> 00:02:15.659 doing yoga on a mountain. Exactly. We value work 00:02:15.659 --> 00:02:17.939 -life balance here. Usually said by the person 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:20.000 who's emailing you on a Saturday. Right. But 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.520 what does the literature actually say it is? 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.930 What's the real definition? Strictly speaking, 00:02:26.090 --> 00:02:28.229 based on the definitions in our source material, 00:02:28.550 --> 00:02:31.430 work -life balance is the equilibrium between 00:02:31.430 --> 00:02:35.250 two domains. On one side, you have the instrumental 00:02:35.250 --> 00:02:38.530 tasks you do for survival or for status. On the 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:41.509 other, you have personal life, so family, leisure, 00:02:41.870 --> 00:02:45.009 health, spiritual pursuits, all that stuff. Right. 00:02:45.129 --> 00:02:47.430 But here is the crucial distinction that most 00:02:47.430 --> 00:02:49.830 people miss, and it's the key to understanding 00:02:49.830 --> 00:02:52.530 why we feel so stressed out by it. What's that? 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.319 It's bidirectional. Bidirectional. Okay, let's 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:57.939 unpack that because usually when I'm complaining 00:02:57.939 --> 00:03:00.699 about my balance, I'm complaining about work 00:03:00.699 --> 00:03:04.099 crashing into my life. Exactly. That's what we 00:03:04.099 --> 00:03:06.099 call work -to -life conflict. That's the late 00:03:06.099 --> 00:03:07.919 meeting that makes you miss your kid's soccer 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:10.919 game. That's the exhaustion from a project that 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:12.960 makes you too tired to cook dinner, so you just 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:15.580 order takeout again. Been there. But the definition 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:18.840 holds that private life can also interfere with 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:21.699 work. Life -to -work conflict. Right. If you 00:03:21.699 --> 00:03:24.159 have a sick child at home or you're going through 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:27.060 a messy divorce or you just didn't sleep well 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:28.900 because you were up all night worrying about 00:03:28.900 --> 00:03:32.000 something, that is your life bleeding into the 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:34.219 work container. Which is interesting because 00:03:34.219 --> 00:03:36.939 most corporate policies, they're designed to 00:03:36.939 --> 00:03:40.360 stop work from hurting life like, you know, vacation 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:42.939 days or whatever. But they aren't always great 00:03:42.939 --> 00:03:46.080 at handling it when life hurts. Precisely. It's 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:48.599 an interface. And that interface can be adverse, 00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:51.020 which is what researchers call work -life conflict. 00:03:51.379 --> 00:03:53.939 Or it can be beneficial, which they call work 00:03:53.939 --> 00:03:56.360 -life enrichment. We'll get to that later. But 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:58.500 the massive complication we're facing today, 00:03:58.599 --> 00:04:00.680 and the sources are very, very clear on this, 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:03.360 is that for technology -enabled workers, that 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:07.240 interface has become boundaryless. Boundaryless. 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:09.740 That sounds like a horror movie title. It kind 00:04:09.740 --> 00:04:12.060 of feels like one sometimes. It essentially means 00:04:12.060 --> 00:04:14.379 the physical and temporal walls that used to 00:04:14.379 --> 00:04:16.220 separate those two worlds have just dissolved. 00:04:16.420 --> 00:04:18.220 Right. There's no factory whistle. There's no 00:04:18.220 --> 00:04:21.720 commute to decompress. So our mission today is 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.259 to figure out how we got here. We're going to 00:04:24.259 --> 00:04:27.600 trace the history of time itself from, you know, 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:31.079 the monks to the factory floor. OK. We're going 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.500 to look at the sociology, why we feel so torn. 00:04:33.660 --> 00:04:35.500 And then we're going to look at the legal and 00:04:35.500 --> 00:04:38.160 structural attempts to fix it from the invention 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:40.759 of the weekend to the very modern right to disconnect. 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:42.800 I love it. OK, let's get in the time machine. 00:04:42.899 --> 00:04:46.620 And we are going way back, not to the 1950s, 00:04:46.620 --> 00:04:48.899 but all the way to antiquity. You mentioned ancient 00:04:48.899 --> 00:04:51.870 Greece. Now. When I think of Asia Greece, I think 00:04:51.870 --> 00:04:54.730 of people in Togus just, you know, discussing 00:04:54.730 --> 00:04:57.529 the nature of truth. Did they really worry about 00:04:57.529 --> 00:05:00.370 work -life balance? They absolutely did, but 00:05:00.370 --> 00:05:02.670 their framework was almost the inverse of ours. 00:05:03.670 --> 00:05:06.589 Today, we often view work as the primary thing 00:05:06.589 --> 00:05:09.029 we do. It gives us our identity, our status, 00:05:09.189 --> 00:05:11.610 our money. Leisure is just the time we get to 00:05:11.610 --> 00:05:13.990 recover so we can go back to work. It's a pit 00:05:13.990 --> 00:05:16.470 stop. It's a pit stop. Right. Working for the 00:05:16.470 --> 00:05:19.569 weekend. We rest so we can be productive again 00:05:19.569 --> 00:05:22.439 on Monday. Exactly. We optimize our sleep to 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:25.060 be better workers. But for the classical Greeks, 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.379 and specifically for a guy like Aristotle, the 00:05:28.379 --> 00:05:31.379 perspective was completely flipped. Work was 00:05:31.379 --> 00:05:34.279 the means, leisure was the end. Leisure was the 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:37.060 goal. Yes. The actual word they used was skoli, 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:40.660 for leisure. And strangely enough, skoli is the 00:05:40.660 --> 00:05:44.079 etymological root of our word school. Wait, really? 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.740 School comes from the word for leisure? That 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:49.250 is... That's incredibly ironic considering how 00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:51.149 much work school feels like for most kids. It 00:05:51.149 --> 00:05:52.910 is ironic now, but you have to understand what 00:05:52.910 --> 00:05:55.430 Aristotle meant by leisure. He didn't mean chilling 00:05:55.430 --> 00:05:57.629 out. He didn't mean lying on the couch watching 00:05:57.629 --> 00:05:59.449 Netflix. Or the Greek equivalent, which I guess 00:05:59.449 --> 00:06:01.769 would be watching a play by Sophocles. Right, 00:06:01.889 --> 00:06:04.129 exactly. It wasn't just checking out. So it wasn't 00:06:04.129 --> 00:06:07.050 passive. No, not at all. Scolo was the condition 00:06:07.050 --> 00:06:09.350 for ethical cultivation. It was the time you 00:06:09.350 --> 00:06:11.430 spent learning, contemplating, participating 00:06:11.430 --> 00:06:14.089 in civic life, and basically becoming a better 00:06:14.089 --> 00:06:17.410 citizen, a better human being. Wow. He argued 00:06:17.410 --> 00:06:19.930 that a good political system, a good polity, 00:06:20.209 --> 00:06:22.810 its main job is to protect time for education 00:06:22.810 --> 00:06:25.810 and contemplation. If you are constantly grinding, 00:06:25.829 --> 00:06:28.990 constantly working just for survival, you can't 00:06:28.990 --> 00:06:32.009 be a full human being. You're just a beast of 00:06:32.009 --> 00:06:34.449 burden. That is a profound indictment of modern 00:06:34.449 --> 00:06:37.009 culture. We usually think if you aren't busy, 00:06:37.149 --> 00:06:39.990 you're lazy. Aristotle is saying if you are busy, 00:06:40.209 --> 00:06:42.290 you're stunted. You haven't reached the goal. 00:06:42.410 --> 00:06:44.750 Essentially, yes. Aristotle linked the purpose 00:06:44.750 --> 00:06:47.410 of toil to leisure, just as he linked the purpose 00:06:47.410 --> 00:06:50.189 of war to peace. You fight wars to have peace. 00:06:50.370 --> 00:06:53.029 You toil to have scola. If you toil just for 00:06:53.029 --> 00:06:55.209 the sake of toiling or for the sake of accumulating 00:06:55.209 --> 00:06:56.930 wealth, you've totally missed the point of being 00:06:56.930 --> 00:06:59.790 alive. So it's not about the grind. It's about 00:06:59.790 --> 00:07:03.029 what the grind enables. Precisely. And the Romans 00:07:03.029 --> 00:07:04.670 picked up on this too, right? I know they were 00:07:04.670 --> 00:07:07.329 a bit more practical, maybe a little philosophical, 00:07:07.350 --> 00:07:09.709 but did they keep this distinction? They did. 00:07:09.829 --> 00:07:12.569 And their vocabulary creates a really stark contrast 00:07:12.569 --> 00:07:15.730 that I just love. They had the word otium, which 00:07:15.730 --> 00:07:18.110 meant reflective, private time, that cultivation 00:07:18.110 --> 00:07:20.769 we just talked about. Okay. Otium. And then for 00:07:20.769 --> 00:07:24.449 public business or work, the word was negotium. 00:07:25.009 --> 00:07:27.810 Negotium. That sounds like negotiation. It does. 00:07:27.870 --> 00:07:30.550 But look at the prefix, negotium. It literally 00:07:30.550 --> 00:07:33.829 translates to not leisure or the lack of leisure. 00:07:33.990 --> 00:07:36.610 Oh, wow. So work was defined by what it wasn't. 00:07:36.610 --> 00:07:38.310 It wasn't the good stuff. It was the absence 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:40.829 of the good stuff. Exactly. It frames work as 00:07:40.829 --> 00:07:43.149 a negative state, as the thing you have to do 00:07:43.149 --> 00:07:46.629 to get back to the thing you want to do. Cicero, 00:07:46.670 --> 00:07:49.269 in his work on duties, he framed a good life 00:07:49.269 --> 00:07:51.529 as this constant negotiation between these two 00:07:51.529 --> 00:07:53.850 things, between your civic obligations, your 00:07:53.850 --> 00:07:55.930 negotium, and your private cultivation, your 00:07:55.930 --> 00:07:58.870 otium. The goal was to balance public duty with 00:07:58.870 --> 00:08:00.750 private growth. But I have to ask the obvious 00:08:00.750 --> 00:08:02.410 question here because this all sounds lovely, 00:08:02.470 --> 00:08:05.629 but Aristotle and Cicero, they were elites. Yes. 00:08:05.870 --> 00:08:08.430 They were wealthy men. This philosophy of leisure 00:08:08.430 --> 00:08:11.269 first was built on the backs of slaves and laborers 00:08:11.269 --> 00:08:14.560 who presumably had zero scoli or otium. That 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.759 is a critical, critical point. This was absolutely 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:20.339 an aristocratic ideal. For the vast majority 00:08:20.339 --> 00:08:23.779 of people, the agrarians, the peasants, the slaves, 00:08:23.860 --> 00:08:26.160 life was defined by labor. There's no question. 00:08:26.259 --> 00:08:28.420 So how does this apply to them? Well, here's 00:08:28.420 --> 00:08:30.199 where the history of time gets interesting. Even 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.179 for that peasant in the field, the nature of 00:08:33.179 --> 00:08:35.659 that work was fundamentally different from our 00:08:35.659 --> 00:08:38.419 modern grind. How so? I mean, if you're plowing 00:08:38.419 --> 00:08:40.960 a field all day, that's hard work. It is incredibly 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.600 hard physical work, but it was task oriented, 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:46.399 not time oriented. What's the difference? In 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:49.600 a task oriented world, the job dictates the time. 00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:52.039 You milk the cow because the cow needs milking. 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.399 You harvest the wheat because the wheat is ripe. 00:08:54.539 --> 00:08:56.679 If it rains, you can't harvest, so you stop. 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:59.000 There's a natural rhythm to it. It's more of 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:01.840 a pulse than a straight unending line. So nature 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.559 provides the boundaries, the sun, the seasons. 00:09:04.820 --> 00:09:07.370 Yes. The sun goes down, you stop. Winter comes, 00:09:07.450 --> 00:09:09.970 you slow down. The historian E .P. Thompson, 00:09:10.230 --> 00:09:12.429 who we'll come back to, points out that in pre 00:09:12.429 --> 00:09:15.809 -industrial societies, work was incredibly irregular. 00:09:16.269 --> 00:09:18.710 You might work 16 hours a day during the harvest, 00:09:18.889 --> 00:09:21.850 just a frantic pace. But then you might spend 00:09:21.850 --> 00:09:25.070 three days doing very little but repairing tools 00:09:25.070 --> 00:09:27.850 and talking to your neighbors. There wasn't this 00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:31.129 constant clock -driven pressure. So the concept 00:09:31.129 --> 00:09:33.860 of being late. didn't really exist in the same 00:09:33.860 --> 00:09:35.720 way. Not in the minute by minute sense. You can't 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:38.000 be late to milking a cow in the same way you 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.399 can be late to a 9 .0 a .m. Zoom meeting. The 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:43.710 cow is still there. Okay, so that's the ancient 00:09:43.710 --> 00:09:46.029 and agrarian world. Let's move forward. The Middle 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:48.730 Ages, you mentioned monks in the intro. When 00:09:48.730 --> 00:09:51.009 I think of monks, I think of isolation, chanting, 00:09:51.070 --> 00:09:52.590 that kind of thing. But you're saying they were 00:09:52.590 --> 00:09:54.789 actually pioneers of this schedule. They really, 00:09:54.870 --> 00:09:57.470 really were. I mean, if you look at Western monasticism, 00:09:57.549 --> 00:09:59.730 specifically the rule of St. Benedict from the 00:09:59.730 --> 00:10:03.889 6th century, you see one of the first truly institutionalized 00:10:03.889 --> 00:10:07.169 attempts to rigorously balance the day. And what 00:10:07.169 --> 00:10:09.470 did that balance look like? Was it just all prayer? 00:10:09.850 --> 00:10:12.820 No, it was a strict division. The rule prescribes 00:10:12.820 --> 00:10:15.120 specific hours for the divine office, which is 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.639 prayer, but also specific hours for reading and 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.139 study and crucially specific hours for daily 00:10:21.139 --> 00:10:23.639 manual labor. So they actually mandated labor. 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:25.740 I thought monks just prayed and read old books. 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:29.120 No, idleness is the enemy of the soul was a core 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:31.940 tenet of the Benedictine rule. They believed 00:10:31.940 --> 00:10:35.120 that manual labor was spiritually necessary to 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.279 keep you humble and grounded. Okay. But, and 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:40.500 this is the key, they also mandated that labor 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:43.379 stop. When the bell rang for prayer, you put 00:10:43.379 --> 00:10:46.100 down the shovel. That was it. No questions. It 00:10:46.100 --> 00:10:48.399 was an enforced balance between spiritual duty 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:51.320 and productive tasks. They didn't want monks 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:53.159 burning out from work because they needed energy 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.600 for prayer, but they didn't want them lazy either. 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:57.759 It's almost like the first time management self 00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:00.259 -help book, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective 00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:02.840 Monks. In a way, yes, it was a very regulated 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:05.480 life, but outside the monastery in the medieval 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:08.220 towns, time was still very different from how 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:10.610 we see it today. This is where... historians 00:11:10.610 --> 00:11:13.330 distinguish between church time and merchant's 00:11:13.330 --> 00:11:14.870 time. What's the difference between those two? 00:11:15.179 --> 00:11:17.379 Well, church time is cyclical. It's organized 00:11:17.379 --> 00:11:21.899 around feasts, fasts, saints' days. You have 00:11:21.899 --> 00:11:23.980 the church bells ringing for prayer at certain 00:11:23.980 --> 00:11:26.980 times of day. It's a rhythm dictated by the religious 00:11:26.980 --> 00:11:29.960 calendar. But as commerce started to rise in 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.500 the late Middle Ages, you get the emergence of 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:35.960 merchants' time. Time is money. Exactly. All 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:38.059 of a sudden, merchants need to coordinate. You 00:11:38.059 --> 00:11:40.720 have market days, contracts with deadlines, delivery 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.659 times. Time becomes a commodity to be measured 00:11:43.659 --> 00:11:46.340 and sold. But even then, for the vast majority 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:50.240 of people, labor and rest still varied by your 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.179 estate or class. And by the season, there was 00:11:53.179 --> 00:11:57.019 no rigid, universal daily clock ticking seconds 00:11:57.019 --> 00:11:59.779 away. And this brings us to the villain of our 00:11:59.779 --> 00:12:02.519 story. Or at least the turning point where everything 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:04.539 changes. The Industrial Revolution. The moment 00:12:04.539 --> 00:12:06.480 the clock takes over. We have to return to E 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:09.080 .P. Thompson here. His analysis, time, work discipline, 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:11.679 and industrial capitalism is. It's just essential 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.139 reading on this. His argument is that the factory 00:12:14.139 --> 00:12:17.379 changed the very nature of time itself. It shifted 00:12:17.379 --> 00:12:20.799 us from that old task orientation to timed labor. 00:12:21.019 --> 00:12:22.899 How does that shift actually happen? What's the 00:12:22.899 --> 00:12:25.450 mechanism? Think about the economics of it. Before 00:12:25.450 --> 00:12:27.809 the factory, a weaver might own their own loom. 00:12:27.809 --> 00:12:29.590 They work at home. If they want to get drunk 00:12:29.590 --> 00:12:31.610 on Monday and then work double on Tuesday, they 00:12:31.610 --> 00:12:34.549 can. Their time is their own. Right. But in a 00:12:34.549 --> 00:12:37.470 factory, the employer has invested a massive 00:12:37.470 --> 00:12:40.250 amount of capital in machinery. Steam engines, 00:12:40.509 --> 00:12:43.690 power looms. These things cost a fortune. And 00:12:43.690 --> 00:12:45.529 those machines need to run. They can't just sit 00:12:45.529 --> 00:12:47.519 there. Those machines need to run constantly 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.340 to be profitable. Idleness in a machine is lost 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:53.279 money. So employers needed to synchronize human 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.899 labor to the machine. They use bells and clocks 00:12:55.899 --> 00:12:58.820 to discipline labor. Discipline labor. That sounds 00:12:58.820 --> 00:13:01.419 so ominous. It was. It was a massive behavioral 00:13:01.419 --> 00:13:04.940 modification program on a societal scale. Thomson 00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:07.580 documents how this redefined concepts like lateness 00:13:07.580 --> 00:13:11.259 and idleness. In an agrarian society, lateness 00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:14.159 is a fuzzy concept. In a factory, five minutes 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.500 late means the production. line stops and that 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:18.960 costs money so the clock becomes the boss the 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.559 clock becomes the moral authority employers actually 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:24.659 laid moral guilt on workers time is money idleness 00:13:24.659 --> 00:13:27.220 is sin all those benjamin franklin style proverbs 00:13:27.220 --> 00:13:30.740 they had to crush the old natural irregular habits 00:13:31.450 --> 00:13:32.990 There's a famous tradition from that time called 00:13:32.990 --> 00:13:35.129 St. Monday. St. Monday. I assume that's not a 00:13:35.129 --> 00:13:37.549 real saint in the Catholic canon. No, definitely 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:40.250 not. In the early industrial period, workers 00:13:40.250 --> 00:13:43.690 like shoemakers, tailors, colliers, they would 00:13:43.690 --> 00:13:46.710 get paid on Saturday, drink all day Sunday, and 00:13:46.710 --> 00:13:48.870 then just not show up on Monday. They would claim 00:13:48.870 --> 00:13:51.210 they were observing St. Monday. The original 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:54.210 three -day weekend. I like it. It was, but it 00:13:54.210 --> 00:13:57.590 was erratic. And factory owners absolutely hated 00:13:57.590 --> 00:14:00.309 it. They spent decades fighting to eradicate 00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:04.370 St. Monday and impose a rigid six -day, 12 to 00:14:04.370 --> 00:14:06.730 14 -hour schedule on the workforce. And let's 00:14:06.730 --> 00:14:08.610 be clear about those hours. We aren't talking 00:14:08.610 --> 00:14:10.769 about a long day at the office answering emails. 00:14:10.929 --> 00:14:12.889 We are talking about physically destroying the 00:14:12.889 --> 00:14:15.490 human body. We are talking about 14, sometimes 00:14:15.490 --> 00:14:18.409 16 hours a day. Children working in mines and 00:14:18.409 --> 00:14:20.789 factories. It was a total colonization of life 00:14:20.789 --> 00:14:23.490 by work. The boundary was effectively gone. You 00:14:23.490 --> 00:14:26.190 slept and you worked. That was it. Which brings 00:14:26.190 --> 00:14:28.710 us to the pushback, because human beings can 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:30.629 only take that for so long before they snap, 00:14:30.730 --> 00:14:33.730 before they organize. Enter Robert Owen. He was 00:14:33.730 --> 00:14:36.389 a Welsh textile manufacturer, so a capitalist, 00:14:36.669 --> 00:14:39.750 but he was also a utopian socialist and a social 00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:43.379 reformer. In 1817, which is way earlier than 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:45.940 most people think, he coined a slogan that became 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:48.159 the rallying cry for the labor movement worldwide 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.659 for the next hundred years. What was the slogan? 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:53.899 Eight hours labor, eight hours recreation, eight 00:14:53.899 --> 00:14:57.059 hours rest. It's so simple. It's elegant. It's 00:14:57.059 --> 00:14:59.480 a perfect pie chart of the day. It is. It's incredibly 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.419 elegant. And notice the word recreation. He didn't 00:15:02.419 --> 00:15:05.679 just say time off. He implied recreation, a time 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:08.139 to rebuild yourself, to be human. It's almost 00:15:08.139 --> 00:15:10.750 a callback to Aristotle's skull. But it took 00:15:10.750 --> 00:15:12.549 a long time to actually get there, didn't it? 00:15:12.629 --> 00:15:15.450 I mean, Oman said that in 1817. When did it actually 00:15:15.450 --> 00:15:17.509 become real for most people? It was a century 00:15:17.509 --> 00:15:20.190 -long fight, bloody strikes, union organizing, 00:15:20.370 --> 00:15:22.210 a lot of struggle. But a major turning point 00:15:22.210 --> 00:15:24.610 came from a very unlikely source in the early 00:15:24.610 --> 00:15:27.809 20th century, Henry Ford. The car guy. The car 00:15:27.809 --> 00:15:31.450 guy. In 1914, Ford shocked the entire industrial 00:15:31.450 --> 00:15:34.190 world. He reduced shifts in his factories from 00:15:34.190 --> 00:15:36.610 nine hours down to eight hours, and he more than 00:15:36.610 --> 00:15:40.320 doubled the pay to the now famous $5 day. Now, 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:42.759 was he doing this out of the kindness of his 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:46.340 heart? Was he a secret socialist? Not exactly, 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.539 no. Ford was a very shrewd businessman. He realized 00:15:50.539 --> 00:15:52.620 that the turnover rate on his assembly lines 00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:56.259 was astronomical, something like 370 % a year. 00:15:56.500 --> 00:16:00.679 Wow. The work was brutal, repetitive, just soul 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.379 -crushing. People would quit constantly. By shortening 00:16:03.379 --> 00:16:05.460 the day and raising the pay, he stabilized his 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:07.720 workforce. He cut his turnover costs dramatically. 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.600 So this is an efficiency play. Partly. But he 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:13.419 also had a broader economic theory. He realized 00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:15.480 that if he wanted to sell mass produced cars, 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.379 he needed a mass market. He needed a working 00:16:18.379 --> 00:16:20.720 class that had both the money to buy the cars 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.139 and crucially, the leisure time to actually use 00:16:23.139 --> 00:16:25.299 them. That is the key connection, isn't it? You 00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:27.240 can't take a Sunday drive if you're working seven 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.110 days a week. Exactly. Ford helped normalize the 00:16:30.110 --> 00:16:32.210 idea that shorter shifts could actually lead 00:16:32.210 --> 00:16:34.529 to better economic outcomes for everyone, what 00:16:34.529 --> 00:16:37.049 was called the economy of high wages. And then 00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:39.830 following World War I, this started to get codified 00:16:39.830 --> 00:16:42.610 internationally. The International Labor Organization, 00:16:42.970 --> 00:16:45.990 the ILO, was founded, and their very first convention 00:16:45.990 --> 00:16:49.710 back in 1919 set the standard. Eight hours a 00:16:49.710 --> 00:16:52.919 day, 48 hours a week. And in the U .S., this 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.259 eventually becomes law with the Fair Labor Standards 00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:58.820 Act, right? The FLSA. Yes, the FLSA of 1938. 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.340 This is a monumental piece of legislation. It 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:04.839 established the federal minimum wage. But for 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.660 our purposes, it established the 40 -hour workweek 00:17:07.660 --> 00:17:10.000 as the national standard. But it didn't ban working 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.119 more than 40 hours, did it? Because I know plenty 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.119 of people who work way more than that. No, and 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:15.980 that's the cleverness of the mechanism. It didn't 00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:17.980 forbid long hours. It just made them expensive 00:17:17.980 --> 00:17:20.940 for the employer. It mandated premium pay time 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:23.759 and a half for any hours worked over 40. So the 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.299 logic was we are going to make it painful for 00:17:26.299 --> 00:17:29.859 the employer to overwork you. A financial disincentive. 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:33.039 Correct. The goal was to discourage long weeks 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.220 and, in the context of the Great Depression, 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.039 to spread the available work among more people. 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.319 The logic was if it's cheaper to hire a second 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.099 person than to pay one person overtime, you'll 00:17:45.099 --> 00:17:48.319 hire the second person. So by 1940, we sort of 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.500 have it. The modern structure is in place. We 00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:52.319 have the clock. We have the hour day. We have 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.740 the weekend. Balance is structurally there, at 00:17:54.740 --> 00:17:57.359 least on paper. On paper, yes. But fast forward 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.359 to the late 20th century. And it feels like the 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:01.019 wheels start falling off again. This is where 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:03.779 we see what's called the sociological turn. The 00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:06.000 conversation moves away from just arguing about 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.579 hours worked and starts looking at the social 00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:11.240 and especially the gender dynamics of those hours. 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.460 And one of the biggest voices here is Juliet 00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:16.519 Shore with The Overworked American. Yes, that 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:19.019 book came out in 1992 and it was a bombshell. 00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:21.779 Shore presented a ton of data showing that working 00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:23.960 hours in the U .S. had actually risen significantly 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.460 over the previous decades, despite productivity 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:29.079 going through the roof. That's the paradox, isn't 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:30.779 it? Yeah. Technology was supposed to save us 00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:33.019 time. We have dishwashers. We have computers. 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:35.819 We have email. We should be working 15 -hour 00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:38.299 weeks by now, as John Maynard Keynes famously 00:18:38.299 --> 00:18:41.319 predicted back in the 30s. We should be. So why 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:43.920 did Shore say we were working more, not less? 00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:46.980 She pointed to a combination of cultural and 00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:49.400 economic pressures, what she called the cycle 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.900 of work and spend. We worked more to buy more. 00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:55.480 The standard of living expectations just kept 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.980 rising. We wanted the bigger house, the second 00:18:57.980 --> 00:19:00.579 car, the nicer clothes, the international vacation. 00:19:01.099 --> 00:19:03.599 So we traded that potential leisure time for 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.819 more consumption. We bought the really nice car, 00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:07.960 but now we have to work constantly to make the 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.500 payments on the car, so we don't actually have 00:19:09.500 --> 00:19:11.900 any time to drive the car. It's the hamster wheel. 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.539 And while Shore was looking at the economic pressure 00:19:14.539 --> 00:19:17.420 to work more, Arlie Russell Hochschild was looking 00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:20.079 at the domestic pressure. Her book, The Second 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.359 Shift, is absolutely foundational here. I've 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.400 heard this term, the second shift. This is about 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:27.359 what happens when women get home from their paid 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.440 job. Yes, exactly. As women entered the workforce 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.799 in massive numbers in the 70s and 80s, the domestic 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:36.339 labor, the cooking, the cleaning, the child care, 00:19:36.460 --> 00:19:39.819 the emotional labor of running a household, it 00:19:39.819 --> 00:19:42.140 didn't just disappear. Right. And crucially, 00:19:42.259 --> 00:19:45.029 men didn't pick it up at the same rate. So the 00:19:45.029 --> 00:19:47.869 whole contract to the 40 -hour week was basically 00:19:47.869 --> 00:19:50.150 broken. It was a flawed premise. The 40 -hour 00:19:50.150 --> 00:19:52.529 week was designed for a man with a wife at home 00:19:52.529 --> 00:19:55.549 doing all of that unpaid labor. Once you have 00:19:55.549 --> 00:19:57.890 two people working, that domestic labor still 00:19:57.890 --> 00:20:00.710 has to happen. Hochschild's research documented 00:20:00.710 --> 00:20:02.950 that women were effectively working a full shift 00:20:02.950 --> 00:20:05.490 at the office and then coming home to work a 00:20:05.490 --> 00:20:08.650 second shift of unpaid care work. She calculated 00:20:08.650 --> 00:20:11.430 it was roughly an extra month of 24 hour days 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:14.190 per year. An entire extra month of work. So for 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:17.009 women, work life balance was basically a myth. 00:20:17.069 --> 00:20:19.869 It was just work. work balance in many ways yes 00:20:19.869 --> 00:20:21.730 and hochschild followed this up with another 00:20:21.730 --> 00:20:24.029 incredible book called the time mine and this 00:20:24.029 --> 00:20:26.650 one had a really provocative almost counter -incuitive 00:20:26.650 --> 00:20:29.970 thesis she argued that for many people work and 00:20:29.970 --> 00:20:31.930 home had flipped roles what do you mean they'd 00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:34.769 flipped she observed that the workplace had for 00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:37.269 many become a place of social connection clear 00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:40.549 goals and positive recognition you finish a project 00:20:40.549 --> 00:20:43.049 someone says good job you get a coffee with a 00:20:43.049 --> 00:20:45.769 colleague it's structured and rewarding okay 00:20:45.769 --> 00:20:55.980 meanwhile home hit That is... Devastatingly relatable 00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:58.700 for a lot of parents, I'm sure. Work is where 00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:00.460 you get to drink your coffee while it's still 00:21:00.460 --> 00:21:03.539 hot. Exactly. It's the haven theory turned completely 00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:06.160 upside down. Work becomes the haven from the 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:09.000 chaos of home. And this growing recognition of 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.579 the care burden led to some legislative attempts 00:21:11.579 --> 00:21:14.940 to help out. In the U .S., we got the FMLA, the 00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:17.740 Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993. Right, 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:20.140 which gives you 12 weeks of leave. And this is 00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:22.480 a huge but. But it is unpaid. That is the critical 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:24.470 limitation. It protects your job. You can't be 00:21:24.470 --> 00:21:26.569 fired for having a baby or caring for a sick 00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:29.009 parent, but it doesn't protect your income, which 00:21:29.009 --> 00:21:31.670 means for millions of people, it's not a real 00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:34.369 option. Compare that to something like the Small 00:21:34.369 --> 00:21:37.190 Necessities Leave Act in Massachusetts, which 00:21:37.190 --> 00:21:40.150 allows 24 hours of unpaid leave for things like 00:21:40.150 --> 00:21:42.450 parent -teacher conferences or a kid's doctor 00:21:42.450 --> 00:21:45.049 appointments. These are attempts to patch the 00:21:45.049 --> 00:21:47.269 holes in the system, but they are still relying 00:21:47.269 --> 00:21:49.970 on the employee to take the financial hit. And 00:21:49.970 --> 00:21:52.390 then, as if the second shift and the time bind 00:21:52.390 --> 00:21:55.089 weren't enough to deal with, We enter the 21st 00:21:55.089 --> 00:21:58.029 century and we get the digital leash. Smartphone, 00:21:58.089 --> 00:22:01.029 the laptop, high speed internet everywhere. And 00:22:01.029 --> 00:22:04.059 then the ultimate game changer. The COVID -19 00:22:04.059 --> 00:22:07.500 pandemic. The pandemic was a massive accelerant. 00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:10.380 It forced this huge global experiment in remote 00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:14.019 and hybrid work. And reports from the ILO and 00:22:14.019 --> 00:22:16.559 the OECD found that while this offered new opportunities 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:19.839 for flexibility, it created a massive risk of 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:22.500 hidden overtime. Hidden overtime. I know that 00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:24.119 feeling. That's answering emails while you're 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:26.299 making dinner. That's finishing a slide deck 00:22:26.299 --> 00:22:28.599 on a Sunday morning just because you can. It's 00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:31.259 the total blurring of boundaries. When your office 00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:34.240 is your kitchen table, you are never really at 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:36.700 work, but you are also never really at home. 00:22:36.859 --> 00:22:39.480 You're in this liminal state of constant potential 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.220 availability. Yes. And this has led to a really 00:22:42.220 --> 00:22:44.839 interesting legal counter movement, specifically 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:48.079 in Europe. The right to disconnect. I love the 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:50.160 sound of this. It sounds like a fundamental civil 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:53.119 right. It effectively is in some places. It really 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.819 started in France with the Loi Travaille in 2016. 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.039 It introduced the Droit à la Diconnexion. My 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.079 French is terrible, but that sounds exactly like. 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:05.079 Right to disconnect. You got it. It requires 00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:07.619 employers, specifically in larger companies, 00:23:07.819 --> 00:23:10.200 to negotiate rules with their staff to limit 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.799 after hours communication. It's not a blanket 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.579 ban on sending an email, but it forces the conversation. 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.640 It says we must agree on when work officially 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.380 stops. And Spain followed suit with this. Yes. 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:25.119 In 2018, Spain created a statutory right to digital 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.740 disconnection. It basically says you have a legal 00:23:27.740 --> 00:23:30.000 right not to answer that email or that Slack 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.400 message outside of your established working hours. 00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:35.329 That is just wild. think about from a U .S. perspective. 00:23:35.549 --> 00:23:39.210 A legal right to ignore your boss on a Saturday. 00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:42.400 It signals a societal recognition that the technology 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:45.220 is inherently invasive. It treats the smartphone 00:23:45.220 --> 00:23:47.619 as a potential intruder in the private sphere 00:23:47.619 --> 00:23:50.900 of the home. The UK and the EU are also pushing 00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:53.519 really hard on flexible working rights. In the 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.980 UK, as of 2024, the right to request flexible 00:23:56.980 --> 00:23:59.799 working is a day one entitlement. So you don't 00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:01.680 have to earn it over years of service. You can 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.259 ask for it immediately. Correct. And then there 00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:06.920 is the most ambitious experiment of all, the 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:08.839 four day work week. We all saw the headline. 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:12.319 about that big UK pilot in 2022. It was huge. 00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:14.559 It was a massive trial with the University of 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:16.740 Cambridge involved in the research, and the results 00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:18.980 were fascinating. They found that moving to a 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:21.420 four -day week with no cut in pay dramatically 00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:23.799 reduced burnout and stress. Okay, that makes 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:26.259 sense. It also lowered turnover. But crucially 00:24:26.259 --> 00:24:28.559 for the skeptics company, revenue remained stable 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.440 or even improved slightly. Stable revenue with 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.299 20 % less time. That goes right back to the productivity 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:37.519 paradox. We are wasting a lot of time just pretending 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.200 to work. or being present. Or we're just so exhausted 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.319 by the fifth day that we aren't working efficiently 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:46.160 anyway. If you are burned out, you make mistakes, 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:49.940 you work slower. The trial showed that a rested, 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:52.559 focused workforce can get the same amount done 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.759 in less time. And did the companies stick with 00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:57.700 it? Most of them did. The vast majority of firms 00:24:57.700 --> 00:25:00.019 in that trial decided to keep the four -day week 00:25:00.019 --> 00:25:02.680 permanently after the pilot ended. It suggests 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:04.960 we might be on the cusp of another Robert Owen 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.480 moment, another fundamental redefinition of the 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:10.440 standard work week. I want to pivot now. We've 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.759 done the history. We've done the laws. But I 00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:14.039 want to get into the head. I want to get into 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.160 the psychology of this. Why does it feel so hard? 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.180 Even if I have a standard nine -to -five job, 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.119 why do I feel so torn all the time? You have 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:23.940 some theoretical frameworks that explain this 00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:26.759 feeling. Yes. And to understand the feeling of 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.200 being torn, we can talk about the boundary border 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:31.759 spectrum. But the theory that I think resonates 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:33.440 most powerfully and the one that really made 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.500 me go, aha, when I first read it, is the concept 00:25:36.500 --> 00:25:38.980 of greedy institutions. Greedy institutions. 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.259 I love that term. It sounds sinister. Who came 00:25:41.259 --> 00:25:43.740 up with that? It comes from the sociologist Louis 00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:46.900 A. Koser, and he defined a greedy institution 00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:50.579 as any institution that demands total commitment 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:52.720 and loyalty from its members. Total commitment. 00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:55.960 Yes. It actively discourages you from being involved 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.839 elsewhere. It wants to build a wall around you 00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:01.420 and absorb your entire identity. So like a cult 00:26:01.420 --> 00:26:04.400 or something. A cult is a classic extreme example 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.359 or a religious order like a monastery. But Koser 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:10.779 also included things like the military, elite 00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:13.789 sports. teams, academia, and senior management 00:26:13.789 --> 00:26:16.069 and corporations. Jobs that own you. Jobs that 00:26:16.069 --> 00:26:18.289 own you. They want your soul, not just your time. 00:26:18.390 --> 00:26:20.990 They use language like, we're a family here, 00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:23.609 or we need people with passion. They try to erase 00:26:23.609 --> 00:26:25.690 the line between your personal identity and your 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:28.269 job title. Okay, so the modern workplace, especially 00:26:28.269 --> 00:26:31.289 in certain fields, is a greedy institution. But 00:26:31.289 --> 00:26:33.730 here is the absolutely crucial twist for our 00:26:33.730 --> 00:26:36.990 conversation. The family can also be a greedy 00:26:36.990 --> 00:26:39.089 institution. Oh, absolutely. Especially today, 00:26:39.210 --> 00:26:41.829 I can see that. Right. If you look at the culture 00:26:41.829 --> 00:26:44.470 of intensive parenting that has developed in 00:26:44.470 --> 00:26:47.029 the last 30 years, this idea that you need to 00:26:47.029 --> 00:26:50.309 be constantly optimizing your child's life, driving 00:26:50.309 --> 00:26:52.930 them to every activity, helping with every piece 00:26:52.930 --> 00:26:55.410 of homework, ensuring they have every advantage. 00:26:55.670 --> 00:26:58.190 The modern family has become just as demanding 00:26:58.190 --> 00:27:01.170 of total loyalty as the most demanding workplace. 00:27:01.569 --> 00:27:04.109 So the modern conflict is that we are trapped 00:27:04.109 --> 00:27:06.630 between two greedy institutions. Exactly. The 00:27:06.630 --> 00:27:09.609 modern workplace wants 100 percent of you. Modern 00:27:09.609 --> 00:27:11.470 family wants 100 percent of you. And the math 00:27:11.470 --> 00:27:13.819 doesn't work. You don't have 200%. You do not. 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.259 And when you are squeezed between two greedy 00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:19.480 forces, like a mother who is also a soldier or 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:22.119 a PhD student who's also a parent or just a regular 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.799 corporate employee with kids, the conflict intensifies 00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.859 to an unbearable degree. You feel guilty when 00:27:28.859 --> 00:27:30.779 you are at work because you feel you are failing 00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.000 your family. You feel guilty when you are with 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:34.619 your family because you feel you are failing 00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:36.900 at work. Because both sides are telling you that 00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:39.400 anything less than 100 % commitment is a betrayal. 00:27:39.940 --> 00:27:43.269 Precisely. A 2020 LinkedIn analysis that's in 00:27:43.269 --> 00:27:46.569 our sources showed that employees with poor work 00:27:46.569 --> 00:27:49.069 -life balance, those caught in this greedy trap, 00:27:49.309 --> 00:27:52.950 are 4 .4 times more likely to report being burned 00:27:52.950 --> 00:27:55.329 out. It isn't just that they're tired, it's that 00:27:55.329 --> 00:27:57.490 they are being psychologically torn apart by 00:27:57.490 --> 00:27:59.990 these conflicting loyalties. That makes so much 00:27:59.990 --> 00:28:03.509 sense. It's not just, I'm busy, it's... I'm failing 00:28:03.509 --> 00:28:06.490 everyone all the time. Right. And there are other 00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:08.329 theories about how we try to handle this. There's 00:28:08.329 --> 00:28:10.829 compensation theory, which was developed by Piotrkowski 00:28:10.829 --> 00:28:13.569 in the late 70s. It suggests we look to one domain 00:28:13.569 --> 00:28:15.930 to fix what's wrong with the other. If my work 00:28:15.930 --> 00:28:18.190 is boring and unfulfilling, I need my home life 00:28:18.190 --> 00:28:20.450 to be thrilling and meaningful. Or going back 00:28:20.450 --> 00:28:23.309 to Hochschild's time bind, if home is chaotic 00:28:23.309 --> 00:28:26.029 and stressful, I need work to be calm and orderly. 00:28:26.089 --> 00:28:28.170 Exactly. And then there's the opposite idea, 00:28:28.309 --> 00:28:30.630 segmentation theory, which is the belief that 00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:32.750 work and family are, or at least... should be 00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:34.869 totally separate domains that don't influence 00:28:34.869 --> 00:28:37.210 each other this is the leave your problems at 00:28:37.210 --> 00:28:40.029 the door mentality which sounds nice in theory 00:28:40.029 --> 00:28:42.410 but in a world where my boss texts me at dinner 00:28:42.410 --> 00:28:46.069 segmentation is dead In a digital world, segmentation 00:28:46.069 --> 00:28:48.990 is a fantasy. The boundaries are porous by design 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:51.490 now. We can't pretend they're airtight compartments 00:28:51.490 --> 00:28:53.289 anymore. It's interesting to look back at the 00:28:53.289 --> 00:28:56.710 theory of structural functionalism from a historical 00:28:56.710 --> 00:28:59.890 perspective. This was the mid -20th century idea 00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:02.789 that justified the separation, right? Yes. This 00:29:02.789 --> 00:29:05.329 is the old historical theoretical basis for these 00:29:05.329 --> 00:29:08.309 separate spheres ideology. The theory argued 00:29:08.309 --> 00:29:10.509 that households and society work best when there's 00:29:10.509 --> 00:29:13.460 a clear division of labor. Men do the instrumental 00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:16.339 tasks, earning money, being out in the world, 00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:18.980 and women do the expressive, work -nurturing 00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:21.279 emotional support, running the home. Which we 00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.819 now recognize as being incredibly limiting and 00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:26.519 also just factually wrong for a lot of history, 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:28.599 especially for working -class families where 00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:31.380 women have always worked. Exactly. It was a theory 00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:33.740 that justified a very specific historical moment, 00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:36.799 the 1950s American suburban ideal, but it doesn't 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.940 map onto the reality of modern dual -income households, 00:29:40.220 --> 00:29:42.819 single parents, or same - sex couples. It's an 00:29:42.819 --> 00:29:45.039 outdated map for a completely new territory. 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.660 So we have all this conflict. We have greedy 00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:50.960 institutions fighting over our souls. Is it all 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.299 bad news? Is there any good news in any of this 00:29:53.299 --> 00:29:55.799 research? There is. This is where researchers 00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.559 differentiate between work -family conflict, 00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:00.839 which we've been talking a lot about, and work 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.440 -family enrichment. Okay, let's do the bad news 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.920 first so we can end on a high note. What are 00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:08.720 the specific types of conflict that the research 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.579 identifies? Greenhouse and Butel. Two major researchers 00:30:12.579 --> 00:30:15.400 in this field identified three specific sources 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:19.000 of conflict. The first is the most obvious. Time 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:21.799 -based conflict. Physically, you cannot be in 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:24.299 two places at once. Simple physics. Right. I 00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.160 can't be at the board meeting and the school 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:28.619 play at the same time. Right. The second is strain 00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:30.720 -based conflict. This is where the stress from 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.059 one role drains your energy so you perform poorly 00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:35.380 in the other. You had a terrible stressful day 00:30:35.380 --> 00:30:37.920 at work. Your cortisol is spiked so you come 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.740 home and you're short -tempered and irritable 00:30:39.740 --> 00:30:42.359 with your partner and kids. Or the reverse. You 00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:44.839 are up all night with a crying baby so the next 00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:46.519 day you're exhausted and you make a critical 00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:49.619 mistake on a spreadsheet. at work. Exactly. The 00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:52.220 strain transfers across the boundary. But the 00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:54.980 third one is the most fascinating to me. Behavior 00:30:54.980 --> 00:30:59.180 based conflict. This happens when the behavior 00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:02.059 that is required for success in one role directly 00:31:02.059 --> 00:31:04.599 fights with the behavior required in the other. 00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:07.539 Can you give me an example of that? OK. Imagine 00:31:07.539 --> 00:31:10.599 you're a trial lawyer or a high stakes corporate 00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:13.480 negotiator. To succeed in that role, you might 00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:16.160 need to be aggressive, unyielding, objective, 00:31:16.539 --> 00:31:19.940 maybe even a bit cold. Emotional detachment is 00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:22.599 a professional asset. Right. But if you bring 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:25.319 that exact behavior home to your toddler who 00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.980 just fell down or to your spouse who needs emotional 00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:30.200 support, it's a complete disaster. You have to 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:31.920 code switch. You have to change persona. You 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.059 have to code switch constantly. You have to take 00:31:34.059 --> 00:31:36.140 off the lawyer armor before you walk in the front 00:31:36.140 --> 00:31:38.740 door. And that code switching is exhausting. 00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.359 It takes a huge amount of mental energy. to change 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:44.460 your entire personality at 6 0 p .m. every day. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.700 That explains the decompression time people need 00:31:46.700 --> 00:31:49.380 after work, that commute time, or just sitting 00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:50.819 in the car for 10 minutes. You need a minute 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.319 to switch characters. Exactly. But now for the 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:58.180 good news. Work family enrichment. This is the 00:31:58.180 --> 00:32:01.180 flip side. It's the idea that participation in 00:32:01.180 --> 00:32:04.180 one role can actually generate resources and 00:32:04.180 --> 00:32:07.480 skills that help you in the other. So how does 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.059 work help family besides the obvious, you know, 00:32:10.059 --> 00:32:12.279 the paycheck? Well, there's skills transfer. 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.799 Maybe you learn project management skills at 00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:16.880 work that help you organize a chaotic household. 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:20.339 Maybe you take a conflict resolution course for 00:32:20.339 --> 00:32:22.259 your job that helps you handle arguments with 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:24.460 your teenager better. OK, that makes sense. Or 00:32:24.460 --> 00:32:27.059 even simpler, success at work can give you a 00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:29.500 sense of self -efficacy and confidence that makes 00:32:29.500 --> 00:32:32.380 you a happier, more patient, more engaged parent. 00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:35.019 And the reverse. How can family help your work 00:32:35.019 --> 00:32:37.660 life? Oh, absolutely. The emotional support you 00:32:37.660 --> 00:32:39.759 get from your family can be a powerful buffer 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:42.619 against workplace stress. If your boss yells 00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:44.640 at you, but you go home to a supportive partner 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.549 who listens. You bounce back faster. You're more 00:32:47.549 --> 00:32:49.869 resilient. Right. And frankly, having a family 00:32:49.869 --> 00:32:52.849 can give you perspective. It's just a job perspective. 00:32:53.170 --> 00:32:55.390 Right. You realize that the quarterly report 00:32:55.390 --> 00:32:57.630 isn't actually life or death because you have 00:32:57.630 --> 00:33:00.650 this other life that matters so much more. And 00:33:00.650 --> 00:33:02.630 that perspective can actually make you a better 00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:05.670 leader because you're less reactive, less anxious 00:33:05.670 --> 00:33:08.430 about small setbacks. So if we want more of that 00:33:08.430 --> 00:33:11.150 enrichment and less of the conflict, what do 00:33:11.150 --> 00:33:13.609 we do? Is it all just up to me to be better at 00:33:13.609 --> 00:33:15.980 yoga and time management? and code switching? 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:18.700 No. And I want to be very, very clear on this. 00:33:19.450 --> 00:33:22.089 Individual solutions to structural problems usually 00:33:22.089 --> 00:33:24.930 fail. The research is overwhelming that organizational 00:33:24.930 --> 00:33:27.690 support is crucial. It's not just about having 00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:29.910 a policy written down in the HR handbook somewhere. 00:33:30.049 --> 00:33:32.869 It's about active supervisor support. The manager 00:33:32.869 --> 00:33:35.289 matters a lot. The manager is the gatekeeper 00:33:35.289 --> 00:33:38.109 to balance. Studies show that specific supportive 00:33:38.109 --> 00:33:40.609 behaviors from a direct supervisor correlate 00:33:40.609 --> 00:33:43.170 directly with lower employee conflict and stress. 00:33:43.490 --> 00:33:46.190 If your boss says, I see you have a dentist appointment 00:33:46.190 --> 00:33:48.289 on your calendar. Go take care of it. Don't worry 00:33:48.289 --> 00:33:51.259 about it. That reduces strain massively. If your 00:33:51.259 --> 00:33:54.019 boss says, why weren't you online at 2, 6 p .m.? 00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:56.359 That increases strain. It's that simple. And 00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:58.619 what about coworkers? Does that matter too? Yes. 00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:01.880 Informal coworker support is huge. Just having 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:04.160 someone who will say, hey, I'll cover for you. 00:34:04.220 --> 00:34:06.559 Go pick up your kid. Or just, how is your mom 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.079 doing after her surgery? That social resource 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.030 creates a buffer against burnout. At the end 00:34:12.030 --> 00:34:14.409 of the day, we're social animals. We need to 00:34:14.409 --> 00:34:17.530 feel that the tribe at work has our back. So 00:34:17.530 --> 00:34:19.510 we've covered a massive amount of ground here. 00:34:19.550 --> 00:34:21.929 We've gone from the Greek concept of skole all 00:34:21.929 --> 00:34:24.190 the way to the medieval bells, to the factory 00:34:24.190 --> 00:34:26.849 clock, and now to the greedy institutions of 00:34:26.849 --> 00:34:29.389 the 21st century. It's a long and winding journey 00:34:29.389 --> 00:34:31.369 of humanity just trying to figure out how to 00:34:31.369 --> 00:34:33.969 live a good life. If we have to summarize the 00:34:33.969 --> 00:34:37.289 big takeaway from all this, what is it? I think 00:34:37.289 --> 00:34:39.349 the summary is that work -life balance isn't 00:34:39.349 --> 00:34:41.650 a static thing you achieve, like finishing a 00:34:41.650 --> 00:34:43.929 marathon and then you're done. It's not a destination 00:34:43.929 --> 00:34:46.849 you arrive at. It is a constant dynamic process 00:34:46.849 --> 00:34:49.630 of boundary management. And historically, every 00:34:49.630 --> 00:34:52.130 time the nature of work changes from the field 00:34:52.130 --> 00:34:54.090 to the factory, from the factory to the office, 00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:57.690 from the office to the cloud, we have to renegotiate 00:34:57.690 --> 00:35:00.090 those boundaries all over again. And right now 00:35:00.090 --> 00:35:02.670 we are in the middle of a massive renegotiation 00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:05.329 because of technology. Exactly. We are trying 00:35:05.329 --> 00:35:08.050 to apply factory error rules like the eight hour 00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:11.230 day to a digital reality where work can happen 00:35:11.230 --> 00:35:13.869 anywhere, anytime. The old tree bees don't work 00:35:13.869 --> 00:35:15.929 anymore. Which brings us to our final thought. 00:35:16.090 --> 00:35:18.110 We always like to leave the listener with something 00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:20.889 to chew on. OK, so here is what I'm thinking 00:35:20.889 --> 00:35:24.079 about. We talked about. the right to disconnect 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:26.860 laws in Europe. Right. And we talked about Lewis 00:35:26.860 --> 00:35:30.980 Kosar's theory of greedy institutions. If work 00:35:30.980 --> 00:35:34.179 and life are indeed two greedy institutions that 00:35:34.179 --> 00:35:37.199 will naturally, by their very nature, devour 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.619 as much of our time and energy and loyalty as 00:35:39.619 --> 00:35:42.579 we let them, can we actually solve this individually? 00:35:42.579 --> 00:35:44.619 Oh, that's the question. Can I just discipline 00:35:44.619 --> 00:35:46.980 my way to balance? Can I have enough willpower 00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:49.579 to turn off my phone? Or do we need societal 00:35:49.579 --> 00:35:52.440 rules like the French law, like the four day 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:54.699 work week to force the boundaries back into place 00:35:54.699 --> 00:35:56.940 for everyone? Because if you are just one person 00:35:56.940 --> 00:35:59.320 trying to hold back these two greedy giants on 00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:01.340 your own, you are almost certainly going to lose. 00:36:01.539 --> 00:36:03.739 Maybe we aren't managing a personal balance. 00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:05.980 Maybe what we're really doing is negotiating 00:36:05.980 --> 00:36:09.579 a treaty between two warring nations. And usually 00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:12.579 treaties require governments and laws and collective 00:36:12.579 --> 00:36:14.940 agreements, not just individual good intentions. 00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:18.500 That is a powerful thought. Are you a diplomat 00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:20.960 negotiating a treaty or are you just a casualty 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.179 in the war between work and life? Something to 00:36:23.179 --> 00:36:25.139 think about next time you reach for your work 00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:29.039 phone at 9 .00 p .m. Indeed. Thank you so much 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.800 for this deep dive. I feel, ironically, I feel 00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:33.639 like I should go take a break now. A little obium 00:36:33.639 --> 00:36:35.820 would be good for you. A little odium. Thanks 00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:37.219 for listening, everyone. We'll see you on the 00:36:37.219 --> 00:36:37.900 next deep dive.