WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.779 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Usually when we 00:00:02.779 --> 00:00:05.259 talk about a huge company, we focus on, you know, 00:00:05.259 --> 00:00:07.860 their biggest hits. If this were about McDonald's, 00:00:07.860 --> 00:00:09.439 we'd be talking about the Big Mac. Right, the 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:11.800 Quarter Pounder. But today we're doing something 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:13.500 a little different. We're looking at the experimental 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:18.179 menu, the McPizza, the McSpaghetti, all the weird 00:00:18.179 --> 00:00:21.440 niche and sometimes totally disastrous ideas. 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:25.579 That is a surprisingly good analogy for what 00:00:25.579 --> 00:00:27.640 we're getting into today. We are looking at DC 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:31.199 Comics. But not the Superman and Batman you know. 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:34.280 We are diving into the history of their imprints. 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:37.759 These sublabels and side brands they've used 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:40.060 for 40 years to try and sell comics to everyone 00:00:40.060 --> 00:00:42.619 who wasn't already buying superhero comics. It's 00:00:42.619 --> 00:00:44.439 a really fascinating way to look at the company 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:46.539 because on the surface, DC is this monolith. 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:48.560 You've got the Trinity, Superman, Wonder Woman, 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:51.539 Batman. They are the establishment. But for decades, 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:53.600 they've been running these little internal labs, 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:57.100 these imprints, to see if they could sell romance 00:00:57.100 --> 00:01:01.079 or horror. or high concept sci -fi. So for this, 00:01:01.140 --> 00:01:04.359 we're drawing from the list of DC Comics imprints 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:07.060 and the history behind them. Our mission is to 00:01:07.060 --> 00:01:09.659 kind of figure out the strategy. Why does a company 00:01:09.659 --> 00:01:12.079 that owns the most famous characters on Earth 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.260 need to invent other company names just to sell 00:01:15.260 --> 00:01:18.079 a book? It all comes down to audience segmentation. 00:01:18.099 --> 00:01:20.760 Think of it like a brand wrapper. A parent trusts 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:23.359 the Disney logo, right? You know it's safe. For 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:26.799 sure. But Disney also... puts out R -rated movies, 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:28.959 they just do it under a different name, like 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:31.480 Searchlight. If you put that Disney castle in 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:33.879 front of a really gritty war movie, you'd confuse 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:36.260 everyone and damage the brand. Yeah, you don't 00:01:36.260 --> 00:01:37.760 want a six -year -old accidentally watching a 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:40.700 crime drama. Exactly. So an imprint lets a publisher 00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:43.620 like DC say, okay, this stuff is for kids, this 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:46.719 shelf is for goth teenagers, and this shelf is 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.680 for people who like abstract art. It protects 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:51.519 the main brand. So let's go back to when this 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.760 really started. I know DC published under other 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.939 names way back. when. But this modern idea of 00:01:56.939 --> 00:02:00.939 the imprint as a like a strategic tool that seems 00:02:00.939 --> 00:02:03.359 to start in the late 80s. That's the pivot point. 00:02:03.659 --> 00:02:06.920 The late 80s were a wild time for comics. The 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:08.979 whole medium was growing up. You had Watchmen. 00:02:09.020 --> 00:02:11.039 You had the Dark Knight Returns. Right. Proving 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:13.319 comics could be serious. But DC didn't really 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:15.800 have a place to put the stuff that was, let's 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:20.039 say, a little risky or just plain weird. And 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.689 that brings us to 1989, the launch. Of Piranha 00:02:23.689 --> 00:02:27.330 Press. Even the name sounds aggressive. It does, 00:02:27.349 --> 00:02:30.009 doesn't it? It's not a place for Superman rescuing 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:32.669 a cat from a tree. Definitely not. Piranha Press 00:02:32.669 --> 00:02:35.969 was DC's first real shot at the alternative market. 00:02:36.389 --> 00:02:38.469 You have to remember at this time, underground 00:02:38.469 --> 00:02:41.110 comics with an X were starting to bubble up. 00:02:41.229 --> 00:02:43.969 They were raw, black and white counterculture. 00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:47.069 DC wanted in. So what did a Piranha book actually, 00:02:47.229 --> 00:02:49.930 you know, look like? The flagship title was this 00:02:49.930 --> 00:02:51.990 book called Beautiful Stories for Ugly Children. 00:02:52.379 --> 00:02:54.599 That is an amazing title. It's evocative. Right. 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:56.719 Piranha was experimental. It was weird. But the 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:58.699 key thing here, the thing that really mattered 00:02:58.699 --> 00:03:01.039 for the industry, is that Piranha was the first 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:04.439 place DC allowed for creator -owned titles. Okay, 00:03:04.460 --> 00:03:07.419 let's pause there. Why is creator -owned such 00:03:07.419 --> 00:03:09.840 a big deal? Well, in the main DC universe, if 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.759 you write a Batman story, DC owns it. If you 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:14.520 invent a new villain for Batman, guess what? 00:03:14.659 --> 00:03:17.020 DC owns that villain forever. You're just work 00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:19.199 for hire. Right. But the underground scene was 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.740 all about ownership. So with Piranha, DC could 00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:24.740 say, come here, make something weird for us, 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:27.280 and you get to keep the rights. It was a way 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:29.120 to get talent that would never touch a corporate 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:31.300 machine otherwise. That seems pretty ahead of 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:34.800 its time for 1989. Did it work? Creatively, yeah. 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:37.560 It produced some really unique stuff. Commercially, 00:03:37.699 --> 00:03:41.280 not so much. It shut down in 1994. It was maybe 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:43.659 a bit too weird for comic shops back then. But 00:03:43.659 --> 00:03:46.129 they didn't give up on the idea. Piranha dies, 00:03:46.330 --> 00:03:50.509 and in 1994, Paradox Press shows up. Paradox 00:03:50.509 --> 00:03:52.530 was an interesting pivot. If Piranha was the 00:03:52.530 --> 00:03:55.069 punk rock club, Paradox was more like a smoky 00:03:55.069 --> 00:03:57.550 jazz bar. It was all about nonfiction and gritty 00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:00.009 crime stories. I was looking at the list of Paradox 00:04:00.009 --> 00:04:01.949 books, and I saw something I did not expect. 00:04:02.169 --> 00:04:04.629 They published Road to Perdition. They did. The 00:04:04.629 --> 00:04:06.729 Tom Hanks movie. I had no idea that was a comic 00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:09.650 book, let alone from DC. And that's the Paradox 00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:11.689 legacy in a nutshell. It was a graphic novel 00:04:11.689 --> 00:04:14.490 first. It's a perfect example of what an imprint 00:04:14.490 --> 00:04:17.709 can do. If that book had a standard DC Comics 00:04:17.709 --> 00:04:19.790 logo on it, people would expect superheroes. 00:04:19.889 --> 00:04:22.870 Sure, or magic or something. Exactly. But putting 00:04:22.870 --> 00:04:26.269 it under paradox told bookstores, this is a serious 00:04:26.269 --> 00:04:29.350 period crime noir. They also had those big book 00:04:29.350 --> 00:04:31.089 of series. I definitely remember seeing those. 00:04:31.170 --> 00:04:33.370 The big book of urban legends, the big book of 00:04:33.370 --> 00:04:36.899 conspiracies. Yeah, they were these thick. digest 00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:40.860 -sized books full of weird folklore, huge cult 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:44.079 hits. But again, despite that, Paradox folded 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.540 in 2001. It seems like these things have a shelf 00:04:46.540 --> 00:04:49.120 life of, what, five to seven years? Usually. 00:04:49.220 --> 00:04:51.459 But then you have the exception, the juggernaut, 00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:54.259 the imprint that basically defined a generation. 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.100 We have to talk about Vertigo. Vertigo, yeah. 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:57.980 Even if you don't read comics, you've probably 00:04:57.980 --> 00:04:59.959 seen that logo. It feels like it was more than 00:04:59.959 --> 00:05:03.360 just a publisher, it was. A whole vibe. Vertigo 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.870 changed everything. It launched in 93. But here's 00:05:06.870 --> 00:05:09.209 the smart part of the strategy. Unlike Piranha, 00:05:09.329 --> 00:05:12.269 which started from scratch, Vertigo took books 00:05:12.269 --> 00:05:14.550 that were already successful but pushing boundaries 00:05:14.550 --> 00:05:17.449 like Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol. And just moved 00:05:17.449 --> 00:05:19.449 them over. And moved them into this new neighborhood 00:05:19.449 --> 00:05:21.569 so they didn't have to build an audience from 00:05:21.569 --> 00:05:24.769 zero. They brought the audience with them. Darn 00:05:24.769 --> 00:05:27.399 it. And then they added the killer app. Neil 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.540 Gaiman's Sandman. Which is basically literature 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:32.459 at this point. It's on college reading lists. 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:36.019 It is. Vertigo became the home for that British 00:05:36.019 --> 00:05:39.959 invasion of writers. Dark fantasy, horror, sophisticated 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:42.579 drama. It wasn't about punching bad guys. It 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:44.779 was about philosophy and magic. And it lasted 00:05:44.779 --> 00:05:47.389 way longer than seven years. Decades. In the 00:05:47.389 --> 00:05:49.810 2000s, they revitalized the line with Fables, 00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:51.709 the fairy tale characters in New York, and Y, 00:05:52.069 --> 00:05:55.050 the last man. It became a seal of quality. You 00:05:55.050 --> 00:05:57.089 saw Vertigo on the Stein. You just bought it. 00:05:57.209 --> 00:05:59.670 There's a funny story in our notes about a failed 00:05:59.670 --> 00:06:02.329 sci -fi imprint that sort of fed into Vertigo. 00:06:02.509 --> 00:06:06.370 Something called Helix. Yes, Helix. In 1996, 00:06:06.769 --> 00:06:09.829 DC thought, sci -fi is big, let's do a sci -fi 00:06:09.829 --> 00:06:14.009 line. It failed. Miserably. Lasted two years. 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:17.160 But they had one book that everyone loved called 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.819 Transmetropolitan. Which is a cyberpunk classic. 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:22.600 Totally. So when Helix died, they just moved 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.459 Transmetropolitan over to Vertigo and it fit 00:06:25.459 --> 00:06:28.319 perfectly. But the funnier part about Helix is 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.319 the name. It wasn't always going to be Helix. 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:32.920 They wanted to call the imprint Matrix. Yeah. 00:06:33.019 --> 00:06:35.100 They had the logo and everything. Then someone 00:06:35.100 --> 00:06:36.639 realized there was a movie coming out called 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:38.120 The Matrix and they thought it might confuse 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:40.860 people. Wow. Imagine if DC owned the trademark 00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:42.720 for The Matrix right before that movie changed 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.699 everything. A bullet dog. Or a massive fortune 00:06:45.699 --> 00:06:47.920 lost. Who knows? So we've covered the mature 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:50.839 angle. But DC was also going out and buying other 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:53.019 people's companies. This brings us to the late 00:06:53.019 --> 00:06:55.800 90s and the acquisition of Wildstorm. This was 00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:00.199 a huge deal. In 1998, DC bought Jim Lee's studio. 00:07:00.500 --> 00:07:02.980 Jim Lee was a rock star artist, and this brought 00:07:02.980 --> 00:07:05.819 in a whole new universe of heroes. The Authority, 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:09.540 Wildcats, Slicker, more modern, a little more 00:07:09.540 --> 00:07:12.379 violent. But inside that purchase was something 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:16.120 really interesting. A sub -imprint called America's 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:19.860 Best Comics. ABC. Yeah, that was Alan Moore's 00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:22.120 playground, the writer of Watchmen. DC basically 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:24.519 gave him his own sandbox inside the Wildstorm 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:26.899 deal. And that's where we get the League of Extraordinary 00:07:26.899 --> 00:07:29.879 Gentlemen. Exactly. And Tom Strong and Prometheus, 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:31.519 see what they're doing? They're using imprints 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:34.100 to offer different flavors of superhero. Main 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:37.120 DC is your classic. Wildstorm is extreme sports. 00:07:37.459 --> 00:07:41.279 America's Best Comics was, like, vintage literature. 00:07:41.620 --> 00:07:44.399 But Alan Moore in D .C., that always implies 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.019 some drama. Oh, it does. And eventually the relationship 00:07:47.019 --> 00:07:49.600 soured. The line folded, the characters got absorbed. 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:51.759 But for a while, it was the most acclaimed corner 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:54.180 of the industry. Speaking of different flavors, 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:56.899 I want to talk about the alternate reality imprints, 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:58.819 because this is where things just get weird. 00:07:59.989 --> 00:08:02.829 Specifically, Tangent Comics. Tangent is a wild 00:08:02.829 --> 00:08:06.550 one. 1997. The idea was, what if we take the 00:08:06.550 --> 00:08:09.410 names of the DC heroes but change literally everything 00:08:09.410 --> 00:08:11.529 else? I'm looking at the descriptions here and 00:08:11.529 --> 00:08:14.310 my brain is breaking. In Tangent, Superman is 00:08:14.310 --> 00:08:16.949 not Clark Kent. No. In the Tangent universe, 00:08:17.290 --> 00:08:19.889 Superman is an African -American police officer 00:08:19.889 --> 00:08:22.850 named Harvey Dent. Harvey Dent, who's usually 00:08:22.850 --> 00:08:26.529 Two -Face. The very same name. But he has psychic 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:29.759 powers, not super strength. And The Flash. The 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.559 Flash is a teenage girl who is literally made 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:34.980 of light. She's a celebrity. This sounds both 00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:37.200 terrible and amazing at the same time. What was 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:40.419 the point? It was creative chaos. It proved the 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:42.879 IP was flexible. You could stretch these names 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:44.580 until they almost broke and people would still 00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:47.159 check it out. And this sort of leads into Elseworlds. 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:48.799 That's the one I think most people recognize. 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:51.980 The logo that just means this story doesn't count. 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.759 Exactly. Elseworlds started in 89 with Gotham 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.860 by Gaslight Batman versus Jack the Ripper. The 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:00.700 whole mandate was just take the characters out 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:02.840 of continuity and go nuts. And that kind of evolved 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:06.620 into the All -Star line in 2005, which was less 00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:10.120 about alternate history and more about celebrity 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:13.230 creators. That's a good way to put it. All -Star 00:09:13.230 --> 00:09:17.210 was DC's answer to Marvel's ultimate line. The 00:09:17.210 --> 00:09:19.529 idea was to create books you could hand to anyone. 00:09:19.909 --> 00:09:23.490 No 50 years of backstory, just the iconic version 00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:25.549 of the character by the best people in the business. 00:09:25.789 --> 00:09:27.649 And we got All -Star Superman from that. Which 00:09:27.649 --> 00:09:29.929 many consider one of the best Superman stories 00:09:29.929 --> 00:09:33.370 ever written. It is perfect, distilled Superman. 00:09:33.649 --> 00:09:36.450 We did. We also got All -Star Batman and Robin. 00:09:36.590 --> 00:09:41.200 We did. Which is... Infamous. Written by Frank 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.720 Miller, drawn by Jim Lee. It was always late. 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:45.759 It was controversial. Batman calls himself the 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:48.240 goddamn Batman. And it never actually finished. 00:09:48.500 --> 00:09:50.279 Wait, really? They never finished it? The last 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:52.539 two issues are still unpublished to this day. 00:09:52.700 --> 00:09:55.059 So the all -star imprint gave us the absolute 00:09:55.059 --> 00:09:57.860 highest high and a very, very confusing low. 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:00.320 Okay, I want to pivot here. We've talked about 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.259 genre. We've talked about alternate realities. 00:10:02.539 --> 00:10:05.259 But what about when DC tried to change the format 00:10:05.259 --> 00:10:07.320 of the book itself? This is where I think the 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.049 business side gets really interesting. Let's 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:11.850 talk about Minx. Minx is such a classic case 00:10:11.850 --> 00:10:14.850 study of right product, wrong time. Launched 00:10:14.850 --> 00:10:18.740 in 2007. The target audience. teenage girls. 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.279 The format was digest -sized graphic novels, 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.519 like a manga book. Which makes sense. Manga was 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:26.980 exploding with that audience. Totally. They saw 00:10:26.980 --> 00:10:29.120 girls buying Fruits Basket and thought, we need 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:31.840 something for them, but not superheroes. They 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.240 launched books like The Plain Janes, a drama 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:36.940 about art and high school. So why did it fail? 00:10:37.059 --> 00:10:39.240 The notes say it was gone in a year. The books 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.159 were well -reviewed. It wasn't the content. It 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:44.169 was the bookstores. This is the big lesson. Distribution 00:10:44.169 --> 00:10:47.389 can kill a great idea. Random House was distributing 00:10:47.389 --> 00:10:49.269 them and they had no idea where to put them. 00:10:49.389 --> 00:10:51.710 What do you mean? Well, back in 2007, a bookstore 00:10:51.710 --> 00:10:54.409 had a comic section with Superman and a young 00:10:54.409 --> 00:10:57.710 adult section with novels. Minx books were comics, 00:10:57.750 --> 00:10:59.929 so they got shoved next to Watchmen. So the teenage 00:10:59.929 --> 00:11:01.549 girls looking for a high school story in the 00:11:01.549 --> 00:11:04.110 YA section never even saw them. Never saw them. 00:11:04.190 --> 00:11:06.129 They couldn't bridge that physical gap in the 00:11:06.129 --> 00:11:09.830 store. Minx died in 2008. But look at the market 00:11:09.830 --> 00:11:12.799 today. The biggest growing sector is YA graphic 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.860 novels for girls. Heartstopper, Raina Telgemeier. 00:11:16.439 --> 00:11:18.360 Minx predicted the future. They just couldn't 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.740 solve the shelving problem. That is just heartbreaking. 00:11:21.059 --> 00:11:23.279 Being too early is the same as being wrong. In 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:25.820 business, it absolutely is. They also tried to 00:11:25.820 --> 00:11:28.340 predict the digital future with Zuda. Zuda Comics. 00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:31.200 2007 again. This was a webcomic site, but it 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.440 was also a competition. Creators would upload 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.320 their comics, users voted, and the winners got 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.919 contracts. So like American Idol for webcomics. 00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:41.379 It really was. And it produced a fantastic winner 00:11:41.379 --> 00:11:44.820 called Bayou. But DC shut it all down in 2010. 00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:48.700 And the reason is simple. The iPad came out. 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:51.360 The iPad killed it. The strategy shifted overnight. 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:53.820 DC realized they didn't need a special website 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:56.240 for scrolling comics. They could just sell digital 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:58.360 versions of their regular comics through an app. 00:11:58.740 --> 00:12:01.080 Zuta became redundant. I want to touch on the 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.259 license stuff really quick because DC also spent 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:06.179 time, it seems, just renting other people's toys. 00:12:06.669 --> 00:12:09.509 They did. In the late 80s, under the TSR imprint, 00:12:09.750 --> 00:12:12.309 they did Dungeons and Dragons comics. And then 00:12:12.309 --> 00:12:14.590 there's the whole Archie situation. Like Archie 00:12:14.590 --> 00:12:16.730 and Jughead. No, no. Archie Comics, the company, 00:12:16.889 --> 00:12:19.529 also owns a bunch of superheroes. The Shield, 00:12:19.750 --> 00:12:23.250 The Fly. DC licensed them in the 90s under Impact 00:12:23.250 --> 00:12:26.769 Comics to sell at newsstands to beginners. Didn't 00:12:26.769 --> 00:12:29.029 work. They tried again in 2008 as Red Circle. 00:12:29.269 --> 00:12:32.789 Didn't work then either. Why does DC, the company 00:12:32.789 --> 00:12:35.679 that owns Superman... need to rent the fly. It's 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:38.019 about filling market gaps. They thought these 00:12:38.019 --> 00:12:40.299 simple classic heroes might appeal to younger 00:12:40.299 --> 00:12:43.419 kids where Batman's convoluted history couldn't. 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.759 Turns out kids just wanted Batman. So bringing 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:49.860 us closer to today. The strategy seems to shift 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:52.879 again around 2016. We get the era of the pop 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:55.539 -up imprint. This is the boutique phase. Instead 00:12:55.539 --> 00:12:57.840 of launching a huge corporate line like Vertigo 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:00.159 that's supposed to run for 20 years, they started 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.340 giving the keys to a celebrity curator for a 00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:04.879 limited time. And the big example is Young Animal. 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.320 Curated by Gerard Way. The lead singer of My 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.659 Chemical Romance. And a very accomplished comic 00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:12.659 writer, he did the Umbrella Academy. DC gave 00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:14.940 him a corner of their universe and just said, 00:13:15.019 --> 00:13:18.080 make it weird. He called it Comics for Dangerous 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:21.299 Humans. They revived Doom Patrol and a book called 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:24.299 Cave Carson Has a Cybernetic Eye. I would buy 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:26.639 that based on the title alone. It was fantastic. 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.519 It was psychedelic and strange. It captured that 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.539 early vertigo energy for a modern audience. And 00:13:32.539 --> 00:13:34.340 they did the same thing with Brian Michael Bendis 00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:36.379 when he came over from Marvel. Right. They gave 00:13:36.379 --> 00:13:39.220 him Wonder Comics, which focused on teen heroes 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:41.519 like Young Justice and the Wonder Twins. And 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.639 the absolute weirdest one, Anna Barbera Beyond. 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:47.019 Oh, this was a trip. They took Saturday morning 00:13:47.019 --> 00:13:50.059 cartoons, Scooby -Doo, The Flintstones, and did 00:13:50.059 --> 00:13:53.639 these dark adult reimagining. Reimagined is putting 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.320 it lightly. I saw the cover for Scooby Apocalypse. 00:13:56.860 --> 00:13:59.480 Shaggy is a muscular hipster. And the monsters 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:02.279 are real. It was insane. And the Flintstones 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:05.940 comic was this biting social satire about consumerism 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.139 and war. It was critically beloved. But again, 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.419 these were pop -ups. They weren't meant to last 00:14:10.419 --> 00:14:12.519 forever. Which brings us to the end of the line, 00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:16.159 the death of the imprint. The great restructure 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.620 of January 2020. What happened? DC decided to 00:14:19.620 --> 00:14:21.879 streamline everything. They looked at all these 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:25.120 brands, Vertigo, Minx, Zoom, Black Label, and 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.419 just said, this is too confusing. So they killed 00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:30.179 almost all of them. Even Vertigo. Even Vertigo. 00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:32.899 It was really the end of an era. So how do you 00:14:32.899 --> 00:14:34.940 know what you're buying now? They replaced imprints 00:14:34.940 --> 00:14:37.980 with age ratings. Now books are just labeled 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:42.600 DC Kids for 8 to 12, DC for 13 plus, or DC Black 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.259 Label for 17 plus. Black Label sounds like a 00:14:45.259 --> 00:14:48.080 brand of whiskey. It's pretty much the only true 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.379 imprint left. It's the home for the mature, out 00:14:51.379 --> 00:14:53.879 -of -continuity stuff. The first book was Batman. 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.899 Damned. It's basically the new Vertigo, but it 00:14:56.899 --> 00:14:59.919 uses the main superhero. It feels a little, I 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:02.299 don't know, clinical. Vertigo felt like a club 00:15:02.299 --> 00:15:04.700 you were in. Yeah. DC -17 plugs, it feels like 00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:06.659 a warning label. You're hitting on the core tension 00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:08.700 there. From a business side, it makes sense. 00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:11.320 You want the DC brand to be the star. But from 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.899 a fan perspective, you lose that identity. Being 00:15:13.899 --> 00:15:15.960 a Vertigo reader meant something in the 90s. 00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:19.240 So looking back at all this history, Prana, Minx, 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.740 Young Animal, what's the big lesson? Was it all 00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:25.720 just a waste of time? Not at all. I see these 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:29.259 imprints as R &D, research and development. Piranha 00:15:29.259 --> 00:15:31.879 proved that creator -owned deals attract talent. 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.220 Vertigo proved comics could be literature. Minx 00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:38.639 proved a YA graphic novel market existed even 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:40.799 if they couldn't reach it yet. So even the failures 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:42.399 taught them something that helped them later 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.240 on. Exactly. The DNA of these failed imprints 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.080 gets absorbed back into the main company. DC 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:51.039 evolves because of them. If they just kept publishing 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.259 Superman comics the same way they did in 1950, 00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:55.419 they'd be out of business. It's an ecosystem. 00:15:55.659 --> 00:15:58.220 The weird little mutations help the whole thing 00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:00.419 survive. That's a very poetic way to put it. 00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:02.480 Well, that brings us to the end of our deep dive. 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:04.899 But before we go, I have a question for you and 00:16:04.899 --> 00:16:07.299 for you listening. We talked about these pop 00:16:07.299 --> 00:16:10.279 -up imprints curated by a celebrity. Gerard Way 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.039 got one. Brian Michael Bendis got one. It's a 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.639 powerful idea. If you could hand the keys of 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:18.059 the DC universe to anyone today, a director, 00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:20.460 a novelist, a musician, who would you pick and 00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:22.710 what kind of books would they make? Ooh, that's 00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:25.429 a dangerous question. I'm thinking. A horror 00:16:25.429 --> 00:16:28.429 imprint curated by Jordan Peele. That would sell 00:16:28.429 --> 00:16:31.330 a million copies. Or maybe a high fantasy line 00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:33.929 curated by George R .R. Martin. Although the 00:16:33.929 --> 00:16:36.649 books might never come out. Too soon. But seriously, 00:16:36.830 --> 00:16:39.690 think about it. It shows that the potential for 00:16:39.690 --> 00:16:42.029 these characters is just limitless depending 00:16:42.029 --> 00:16:44.429 on who's skewering the ship. Let us know what 00:16:44.429 --> 00:16:47.330 your dream imprint would be. Thanks for listening 00:16:47.330 --> 00:16:49.509 to The Deep Dive. Keep reading. We'll catch you 00:16:49.509 --> 00:16:49.850 next time.