WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.459 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. So today we are 00:00:02.459 --> 00:00:05.980 opening a file that on the surface, it looks 00:00:05.980 --> 00:00:07.820 like a pretty standard biography of a ballet 00:00:07.820 --> 00:00:10.679 director. But once you start peeling back the 00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:12.919 layers, you know, the articles, the timelines, 00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:15.359 the reviews, you realize what we're actually 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:18.039 looking at is a masterclass in change management. 00:00:18.260 --> 00:00:20.820 It really is. I mean, it's a story about disruption 00:00:20.820 --> 00:00:24.399 in a field that is, well, notorious for resisting 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:26.879 change. We're talking about Erin S. Walken. Yeah. 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.839 Now, for the ballotomies in our audience. That 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:31.559 name is probably front and center right now. 00:00:31.620 --> 00:00:34.240 Oh, for sure. Because he recently took one of 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:36.920 the biggest jobs in the dance, world artistic 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:39.369 director of the English National Ballet. Right. 00:00:39.509 --> 00:00:42.149 The ENB. Which is a massive seat to fill. He 00:00:42.149 --> 00:00:45.710 succeeded Tamara Rojo in 2023, and she was an 00:00:45.710 --> 00:00:48.530 absolute titan in that role. A total titan. Yeah, 00:00:48.570 --> 00:00:51.210 she really put ENB on the map globally. So following 00:00:51.210 --> 00:00:54.409 her is, it's not for the faint of heart. But 00:00:54.409 --> 00:00:55.909 what hooked me when I was reading through the 00:00:55.909 --> 00:00:58.009 research wasn't just the promotion, it's the 00:00:58.009 --> 00:01:00.289 path he took to get there. We're talking about 00:01:00.289 --> 00:01:02.789 a guy from a tiny town in British Columbia who 00:01:02.789 --> 00:01:04.870 didn't just climb the corporate ladder of the 00:01:04.870 --> 00:01:08.409 arts. He effectively set the ladder on fire and 00:01:08.409 --> 00:01:11.359 like, built a new one from scratch that's a pretty 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:13.939 fair characterization it's definitely not a linear 00:01:13.939 --> 00:01:16.849 path no We're going to look at his nomad years 00:01:16.849 --> 00:01:19.170 across Europe, his apprenticeship under some 00:01:19.170 --> 00:01:21.750 of the wildest geniuses in choreography, and 00:01:21.750 --> 00:01:24.790 specifically his time in Germany. Ah, Dresden. 00:01:25.049 --> 00:01:27.310 There's an event in Dresden, we'll call it the 00:01:27.310 --> 00:01:30.069 Dresden Purge, that is honestly shocking. I had 00:01:30.069 --> 00:01:32.150 to reread that part of the notes twice. It's 00:01:32.150 --> 00:01:34.030 the kind of move that either makes you a legend 00:01:34.030 --> 00:01:36.730 or gets you blacklisted from the industry forever. 00:01:36.810 --> 00:01:40.349 It was a massive, massive gamble. Exactly. So 00:01:40.349 --> 00:01:42.989 our mission today is to track how this Canadian 00:01:42.989 --> 00:01:45.969 kid became the architect of modern European ballet 00:01:45.969 --> 00:01:48.950 and what his return to London means. Because 00:01:48.950 --> 00:01:51.209 if you're a learner, you know, someone curious 00:01:51.209 --> 00:01:53.290 about how people get to the top of their fields, 00:01:53.390 --> 00:01:56.510 this is a roadmap for bold leadership. Absolutely. 00:01:56.650 --> 00:01:58.489 Let's get into it. We have to start in Duncan, 00:01:58.689 --> 00:02:01.030 British Columbia. The sources put his birth year 00:02:01.030 --> 00:02:05.090 around 1969 or 1970. Now, I've looked at Duncan 00:02:05.090 --> 00:02:07.349 on a map. It is beautiful. It's on Vancouver 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:11.490 Island. Lots of totem poles. But it is not exactly 00:02:11.490 --> 00:02:13.710 the center of the cultural universe. No, it's 00:02:13.710 --> 00:02:16.310 a small community. But this is where that whole 00:02:16.310 --> 00:02:19.090 prodigy narrative kicks in. And it kicks in early. 00:02:19.370 --> 00:02:21.409 Right. You see, in the ballet world, if you want 00:02:21.409 --> 00:02:23.949 to make it, you have to leave home young. And 00:02:23.949 --> 00:02:27.930 by 1983, Watkin is not in Duncan anymore. He's 00:02:27.930 --> 00:02:30.490 in Toronto at Canada's National Ballet School. 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:32.699 And for those who don't follow dance training 00:02:32.699 --> 00:02:35.620 hierarchies, where does that school sit? Is it 00:02:35.620 --> 00:02:37.599 like a state university or are we talking Ivy 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:40.259 League? Oh, it's Ivy League. Top tier. It is 00:02:40.259 --> 00:02:42.860 one of the very few schools in North America 00:02:42.860 --> 00:02:45.620 that feeds directly into a world -class company. 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:49.180 But just getting in isn't the story. The story 00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:52.599 is what happened when he graduated in 1988. The 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.990 sources flag this one achievement. the eric brun 00:02:55.990 --> 00:02:58.050 memorial award i saw this in the notes he was 00:02:58.050 --> 00:03:00.389 the first ever recipient the very first and we 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:02.889 really need to pause on the name eric brun because 00:03:02.889 --> 00:03:04.930 unless you're a historian that name might not 00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:07.349 mean much today but in the mid -20th century 00:03:07.349 --> 00:03:11.430 eric brun was a danish superstar he was famous 00:03:11.430 --> 00:03:14.289 for absolute technical perfection, nobility, 00:03:14.409 --> 00:03:17.949 elegance. He was the dancer noble standard. Think 00:03:17.949 --> 00:03:22.389 of him as the Roger Federer of ballet, effortless, 00:03:22.389 --> 00:03:25.050 precise, perfect. So if they create an award 00:03:25.050 --> 00:03:27.490 in his name. It's a massive signal. It means 00:03:27.490 --> 00:03:29.310 the judges aren't just looking for potential 00:03:29.310 --> 00:03:32.530 or athleticism. They are looking for technical 00:03:32.530 --> 00:03:35.229 flawlessness. For Watkin to win the inaugural 00:03:35.229 --> 00:03:37.569 award meant the industry was saying this kid 00:03:37.569 --> 00:03:40.409 is the next standard bearer. He was being anointed. 00:03:40.569 --> 00:03:42.919 That is a lot of pressure. for an 18 -year -old. 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:45.280 Huge. So you win the award, you join the National 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.740 Ballet of Canada in 1988. He's on the home team. 00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:50.159 He's got the accolades. And any other career, 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:52.180 you'd stay there, right? You'd ride that way 00:03:52.180 --> 00:03:54.300 for 20 years. You would think so. In a traditional 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:56.860 career arc, you stay, you rise through the ranks, 00:03:56.900 --> 00:03:59.020 become a principal dancer, retire at 40 with 00:03:59.020 --> 00:04:01.620 a nice pension. But Watkin does something strange. 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:04.479 He leaves. Two years in, he just takes off. At 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.719 age 20, he packs his bags and heads to Europe. 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.180 This kicks off what the sources call his nomad 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:11.979 years. And this is so cr - because if he had 00:04:11.979 --> 00:04:14.199 stayed in Canada, he would have been a great 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.459 dancer, probably a star, but he likely wouldn't 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:19.240 have become the leader he is today. He needed 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:21.639 to see the world. Okay, let's look at this itinerary 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:24.500 because it's frantic. He goes to the English 00:04:24.500 --> 00:04:27.620 National Ballet foreshadowing alert for two seasons. 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.639 Yep. Then the Dutch National Ballet, then the 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:33.839 Frankfurt Ballet, then the Spanish National Dance 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:36.779 Company. It reads like a travel brochure, but 00:04:36.779 --> 00:04:39.019 artistically, it's a deliberate accumulation 00:04:39.019 --> 00:04:43.230 of, like, conflicting data. How so? Because to 00:04:43.230 --> 00:04:44.810 me, it just looks like he's jumping from job 00:04:44.810 --> 00:04:47.230 to job. Well, look at the styles. English National 00:04:47.230 --> 00:04:49.769 Ballet and Dutch National Ballet at that time 00:04:49.769 --> 00:04:51.850 were heavily rooted in the classical tradition. 00:04:52.050 --> 00:04:54.470 We're talking Tudor, Tchaikovsky, strict hierarchy, 00:04:54.769 --> 00:04:57.930 very vertical, very rigid. It's all about preserving 00:04:57.930 --> 00:05:00.550 history. Okay, so that's the foundation that 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:02.689 matches his training. Right, but then he pivots 00:05:02.689 --> 00:05:05.610 to Frankfurt and Spain. In Frankfurt, you have 00:05:05.610 --> 00:05:08.610 William Forsyth. In Spain, you have Nacho Duado. 00:05:08.670 --> 00:05:10.230 These aren't just different companies. They're 00:05:10.230 --> 00:05:12.529 on a different planet artistically. Let's define 00:05:12.529 --> 00:05:14.629 that difference for the listener who hasn't seen 00:05:14.629 --> 00:05:17.430 a Forsyth ballet. What is Watkin doing in Frankfurt 00:05:17.430 --> 00:05:20.149 that he wasn't doing in Toronto? Okay, so picture 00:05:20.149 --> 00:05:22.550 a classical ballet like Sleeping Beauty. It's 00:05:22.550 --> 00:05:25.360 all about... Illusions of weightlessness, straight 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:29.420 lines, perfect balance. In Frankfurt, under Forsyth, 00:05:29.420 --> 00:05:31.740 he's doing the opposite. Forsyth is about being 00:05:31.740 --> 00:05:35.500 off balance. It's about extreme extension, stretching 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:38.399 the limbs further than they should go. It's athletic. 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:41.079 It's fast. It deconstructs all the rules. It's 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.500 incredibly intellectually demanding. And Nacho 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:47.100 Duado in Spain. More earthy, grounded, very contemporary. 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.199 It's heavy. So by the time Watkin is done dancing, 00:05:50.420 --> 00:05:53.379 his body is essentially a hybrid database. He 00:05:53.379 --> 00:05:55.579 understands the strict discipline of the classics. 00:05:55.620 --> 00:05:57.759 He knows how to be a prince. But he also knows 00:05:57.759 --> 00:05:59.699 how to break those rules in the way the avant 00:05:59.699 --> 00:06:02.540 -garde. art demands. That versatility seems to 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:04.339 be the central theme here. He's not a specialist. 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:07.000 He's a generalist in the highest sense. He speaks 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:09.259 all the languages of dance. Exactly. And that 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:11.040 sets him up for the next phase because around 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.720 2002, the dancing stops. He retires from the 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:16.899 stage and the visionary phase begins. He becomes 00:06:16.899 --> 00:06:19.720 the associate artistic director at Victor Yulet 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:23.480 Ballet in Spain. But the source material highlights 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.379 a specific role that I think is the real turning 00:06:26.379 --> 00:06:29.639 point. He becomes William Forsyth's choreographic 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:33.660 assistant this is a huge deal it sounds like 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:36.300 a secondary role but in the dance world it's 00:06:36.300 --> 00:06:40.220 a position of immense power and trust why is 00:06:40.220 --> 00:06:42.319 it just prestige or is there a skill transfer 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:45.180 happening it's deep skill transfer being forsyth's 00:06:45.180 --> 00:06:47.160 assistant doesn't mean you're managing his calendar 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:49.519 or grabbing his lunch right it means you are 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.040 the keeper of the source code Forsyth's ballets 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:54.379 are incredibly complex. They're mathematical, 00:06:54.779 --> 00:06:57.279 high velocity, and often improvised within a 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:59.579 structure. Hard to memorize, I assume. Nearly 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:02.279 impossible. To be the assistant means you have 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:04.439 to know every step, every count, and the intention 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.860 behind every movement for every dancer on stage. 00:07:07.579 --> 00:07:10.500 Watkin wasn't just watching, he was dissecting 00:07:10.500 --> 00:07:13.360 the genius. So he could teach it. He had to be 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.360 able to teach it to others when Forsyth wasn't 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:17.480 in the room. And the sources say he took this 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.430 on the road. Right. He went to the Kirov, which 00:07:20.430 --> 00:07:24.089 is now the Mariinsky in Russia, and the Paris 00:07:24.089 --> 00:07:27.850 Opera Ballet to stage Forsyth's work. Pause there. 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:31.209 The Kirov and Paris Opera are, I mean, they're 00:07:31.209 --> 00:07:33.790 the Vatican and Mecca of classical ballet. Absolutely. 00:07:33.870 --> 00:07:35.589 These are institutions that have done things 00:07:35.589 --> 00:07:37.889 the same way for hundreds of years. They protect 00:07:37.889 --> 00:07:41.170 tradition with a capital T. Correct. They are 00:07:41.170 --> 00:07:43.750 the fortresses of the old world. So you have 00:07:43.750 --> 00:07:46.519 Watkin. This guy from Duncan, B .C., walking 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:48.920 into the Kirov to tell Russian dancers how to 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.639 move. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:54.600 You can just imagine the skepticism. Who is this 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:57.639 Canadian guy? But this is where his background 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:00.089 paid off. Because he had that classical training, 00:08:00.209 --> 00:08:02.509 the Eric Bruhn Award, he spoke their language. 00:08:02.709 --> 00:08:04.750 He could respect their tradition while pushing 00:08:04.750 --> 00:08:07.930 them into this new, jagged Forsyth style. He 00:08:07.930 --> 00:08:10.569 was the bridge. That ability to bridge the gap, 00:08:10.569 --> 00:08:13.410 to speak old world and new world, that seems 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:15.430 to be the asset that got him his big break. It 00:08:15.430 --> 00:08:17.850 was the prerequisite. Which brings us to 2006, 00:08:18.389 --> 00:08:21.529 Dresden, Germany. The Dresden Semper Opera Ballet. 00:08:21.589 --> 00:08:23.449 Now, looking at the context, this wasn't a world 00:08:23.449 --> 00:08:25.810 -famous company at the time, was it? It was respectable. 00:08:26.029 --> 00:08:28.970 It had a long history. Dresden's a cultural hub, 00:08:29.129 --> 00:08:33.529 but it was a sleeping beauty, if you'll pardon 00:08:33.529 --> 00:08:36.500 the pun. Okay. A traditional German opera house 00:08:36.500 --> 00:08:40.580 ballet company. Good, but not making global headlines. 00:08:40.899 --> 00:08:44.000 A bit dusty. And Watkin gets the keys. How? It's 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.480 a classic who -you -know moment, but, you know, 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:49.419 backed by competence. The general director, Gerd 00:08:49.419 --> 00:08:51.220 Uecker, wanted to shake things up. He didn't 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:53.799 want just another classical season, so he asked 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.600 William Forsyth, who can do this? Who can bring 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:58.919 us into the 21st century? Forsyth says, take 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.440 my guy. Essentially, recommended Watkins. So 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.960 Watkins walks in, 2006. He's the artistic director. 00:09:04.259 --> 00:09:07.340 He has a mandate to modernize. Now, usually when 00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:09.340 a new boss comes in, there's a transition period. 00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:11.500 You tweak a few things. You hire a new marketing 00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:14.820 person. Right. Watkins did not do that. No. He 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:18.080 chose a much more aggressive path. He's putting 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.230 it mildly. He executed what we have to call the 00:09:20.230 --> 00:09:22.889 Dresden Revolution. To get the kind of repertoire 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:25.230 he wanted where dancers could do Swan Lake one 00:09:25.230 --> 00:09:27.690 night and a hyper -modern piece the next, he 00:09:27.690 --> 00:09:29.190 looked at the existing company and realized, 00:09:29.409 --> 00:09:32.110 this team can't do it. And this is the part that 00:09:32.110 --> 00:09:33.950 made my jaw drop. The number in the sources is 00:09:33.950 --> 00:09:37.690 25. Yes. He let go of 25 dancers. That was half 00:09:37.690 --> 00:09:39.970 the company. I want the listener to just sit 00:09:39.970 --> 00:09:42.450 with that for a second. Imagine walking into 00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:46.230 your office on Monday and the new CEO fires 50 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:48.860 % of the staff. Because they don't fit the new 00:09:48.860 --> 00:09:51.899 vision. It's incredibly risky. It's unbelievable. 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.240 It's high risk, high trauma. And we have to remember 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.639 in the German theater system, job security is 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.480 usually quite strong. Right. For him to do that 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.659 required immense political capital and a spine 00:10:02.659 --> 00:10:04.840 of steel. He was betting his entire reputation 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:07.580 that the new company would be so good that people 00:10:07.580 --> 00:10:10.120 would forgive the bloodletting. It raises a real 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:12.960 leadership question. Can you achieve radical 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:16.220 transformation? without radical personnel changes. 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:19.320 Watkin clearly believed the answer was no. He 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:21.759 needed crossover dancers. He didn't just need 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:23.940 bodies. He needed dancers who looked good in 00:10:23.940 --> 00:10:26.120 a tutu, but who could also roll on the floor, 00:10:26.259 --> 00:10:29.240 improvise, and handle complex rhythms. The existing 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.419 troupe was likely too specialized in the old 00:10:31.419 --> 00:10:34.659 ways. So he clears the deck. He takes the heat. 00:10:34.779 --> 00:10:37.149 Who did he bring in? He recruited from all over 00:10:37.149 --> 00:10:40.309 Europe. He built a United Nations of Dance. And 00:10:40.309 --> 00:10:42.549 crucially, he didn't just hire dancers, he hired 00:10:42.549 --> 00:10:46.149 creators. He appointed David Dawson as the resident 00:10:46.149 --> 00:10:48.850 choreographer. Dawson is a big name in the contemporary 00:10:48.850 --> 00:10:52.429 world. Huge. That signaled to the world, we are 00:10:52.429 --> 00:10:55.730 making new things here. Then he went on a shopping 00:10:55.730 --> 00:10:58.789 spree for repertoire. He brought in works by 00:10:58.789 --> 00:11:02.389 G .J. Killian, Mats Ek, Alexander Ekman, Stein 00:11:02.389 --> 00:11:05.009 Celis. These are the heavy hitters of European 00:11:05.009 --> 00:11:06.990 modern dance. If you have those names on your 00:11:06.990 --> 00:11:09.090 poster, people pay attention. They are the A 00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:11.669 -list. But, and this is the genius part and why 00:11:11.669 --> 00:11:14.169 he survived the purge, he didn't throw the baby 00:11:14.169 --> 00:11:16.470 out with the bathwater. He kept the heritage. 00:11:16.789 --> 00:11:19.230 The sources list Balanchine, Martha Graham, Pina 00:11:19.230 --> 00:11:21.730 Bausch. And he didn't just buy the rights to 00:11:21.730 --> 00:11:24.570 The Nutcracker or Sleeping Beauty. No, he staged 00:11:24.570 --> 00:11:27.279 his own version. And that's the balance. If he 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.000 had turned Dresden into just a modern dance troupe, 00:11:30.019 --> 00:11:32.100 he would have alienated the local audience who 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:34.360 loves the classics. They want their to -dos at 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:37.460 Christmas. By staging his own Swan Lake, he reassured 00:11:37.460 --> 00:11:40.299 them, I respect tradition. I love it. I'm just 00:11:40.299 --> 00:11:42.740 expanding what this company can be. It's like 00:11:42.740 --> 00:11:44.960 the Apple strategy. You keep the core products 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.220 everyone loves, but you introduce the iPhone 00:11:47.220 --> 00:11:50.320 to change the game. Exactly. And the result was 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:53.399 that for 17 years, Dresden became a powerhouse. 00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:56.100 It went from a regional company to a destination. 00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:59.580 People traveled to Dresden specifically to see 00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:01.460 this company because they were the only ones 00:12:01.460 --> 00:12:03.379 who could do everything at a world -class level. 00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:06.799 He proved the model worked. Which brings us to 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:10.039 the present day. The full circle moment. August 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:13.740 2022. The announcement drops. Erin S. Watkin 00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:16.419 is named the next artistic director of the English 00:12:16.419 --> 00:12:18.899 National Ballet. He's coming home. Well, his 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:21.460 second home. He danced there in his early 20s, 00:12:21.460 --> 00:12:25.179 right? During those nomad years. Now, 30 years 00:12:25.179 --> 00:12:27.820 later, he's the boss. It's a poetic narrative, 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.039 sure, but it's also a really strategic hire by 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.679 the ENB. Why? What does ENB need from him? Why 00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:35.120 not hire someone already in London? Well, the 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.519 English National Ballet is a unique beast. It's 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:39.519 not the Royal Ballet, which is the government 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.179 -funded giant at Covent Garden. The Royal is 00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:45.000 the establishment. ENB is a touring company. 00:12:45.529 --> 00:12:47.690 It was founded to bring ballet to the people. 00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:50.830 It has to be commercially viable. It has to sell 00:12:50.830 --> 00:12:53.809 tickets in Manchester, in Liverpool, not just 00:12:53.809 --> 00:12:56.389 London. So they can't just do weird avant -garde 00:12:56.389 --> 00:12:58.230 experimental stuff that nobody watches. They 00:12:58.230 --> 00:13:01.440 need hits. Exactly. But they also can't be boring 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.820 or they become a museum piece. Tamaroh did an 00:13:04.820 --> 00:13:07.179 amazing job of making them relevant and edgy. 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.080 Watkin has to sustain that. And he has the track 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:12.340 record of balancing commercial hits with artistic 00:13:12.340 --> 00:13:14.299 credibility. The timeline here is interesting. 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.379 He was announced in August 2022, but didn't officially 00:13:17.379 --> 00:13:20.440 take over until August 2023. But the sources 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.580 say he announced his first season back in March 00:13:22.580 --> 00:13:26.200 of 2023. Right. That designate period is awkward, 00:13:26.259 --> 00:13:29.429 but necessary. You have one foot in Dresden wrapping 00:13:29.429 --> 00:13:32.070 up 17 years of your life saying goodbyes and 00:13:32.070 --> 00:13:34.590 one foot in London planning the future. So we 00:13:34.590 --> 00:13:37.169 hit the ground running. Oh, yeah. He was curating 00:13:37.169 --> 00:13:38.950 the season before he even had the key to the 00:13:38.950 --> 00:13:41.990 office. So let's zoom out. We've gone from the 00:13:41.990 --> 00:13:44.750 boy in Duncan, B .C. winning the Eric Bruin Award 00:13:44.750 --> 00:13:48.590 to the nomad learning from Forsyth to the butcher 00:13:48.590 --> 00:13:51.710 of Dresden. Harsh but fair. To the seasoned leader 00:13:51.710 --> 00:13:53.750 in London. Yeah. When you look at this whole 00:13:53.750 --> 00:13:56.370 trajectory, what is the core lesson here for 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:58.289 the listener? I think it's about the concept 00:13:58.289 --> 00:14:01.529 of the hybrid leader. Unpack that. In many fields, 00:14:01.590 --> 00:14:05.129 not just the arts, people tend to polarize. You're 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:07.490 either a traditionalist, someone who protects 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:10.370 the way things have always been done, or you 00:14:10.370 --> 00:14:12.549 are a disruptor, someone who wants to blow it 00:14:12.549 --> 00:14:16.169 all up. Right. What improves you can, and maybe 00:14:16.169 --> 00:14:18.409 you must be both. He protected the technique, 00:14:18.669 --> 00:14:22.049 the Eric Bruhn legacy, but blew up the rigid 00:14:22.049 --> 00:14:24.649 structures with the Dresden Purge. Precisely. 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:27.309 He used the credibility he earned from the classics 00:14:27.309 --> 00:14:30.330 to buy the freedom to do the modern work. If 00:14:30.330 --> 00:14:32.690 he hadn't staged a great Swan Lake in Dresden, 00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:34.690 they never would have let him do the Forsyth 00:14:34.690 --> 00:14:36.809 pieces. He understands that innovation requires 00:14:36.809 --> 00:14:39.110 a foundation. You earn the right to disrupt. 00:14:39.350 --> 00:14:41.970 It's leverage. You build trust with the old stuff 00:14:41.970 --> 00:14:44.309 so you can sell the new stuff. It is. And the 00:14:44.309 --> 00:14:47.129 other takeaway is just courage. The Dresden move 00:14:47.129 --> 00:14:49.870 proves that sometimes incremental change isn't 00:14:49.870 --> 00:14:52.529 enough. If the structure is wrong for the vision, 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:55.289 you have to be willing to break the structure, 00:14:55.350 --> 00:14:57.230 even if it makes you unpopular. In the short 00:14:57.230 --> 00:15:00.529 term. Exactly. He risked his career on that vision, 00:15:00.629 --> 00:15:03.110 and it paid off. That brings me to my final thought, 00:15:03.169 --> 00:15:04.669 and it's a question for you, the listener, and 00:15:04.669 --> 00:15:06.710 something I'm going to be thinking about. Why 00:15:06.710 --> 00:15:10.200 can't spend 17 years in Dresden? A place where 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:13.659 he had total control. He built that team. He 00:15:13.659 --> 00:15:15.960 was the king of that castle. He was the benevolent 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:18.600 dictator, yeah. Now he's in London. The English 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:21.240 National Valet is a much bigger ship. Yeah. The 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.360 British press is... Let's say more vigilant. 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:27.440 The unions are stronger. The public scrutiny 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.700 is higher. He can't just fire half the company 00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:32.139 in London. That would not fly. No, it's a completely 00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:34.860 different game. The politics are harder. So does 00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:37.360 the outsider perspective he honed in Germany, 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.659 that ruthlessness and that clarity of vision, 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:42.559 make him the perfect person to push ENB forward? 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.279 Or will he find that the tactics that worked 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:47.759 in a German opera house just don't translate 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.639 to the UK scene? That is the question. In Dresden, 00:15:50.740 --> 00:15:54.179 he was the radical import. In London, he's part 00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:57.059 of the establishment now. How he navigates that 00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:00.059 shift from revolutionary to guardian is going 00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:02.799 to be the real test. Can a disruptor survive 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.559 inside the establishment? We're going to be watching 00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:07.799 the EMB very closely over the next few seasons 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.039 to find out. I wouldn't bet against him. Neither 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:12.360 would I. That's it for this deep dive into the 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.820 career of Aaron S. Watkin. Thanks for listening, 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:16.039 and we'll catch you on the next one.