WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.200 Okay, so if I say the phrase, because you know 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:06.620 I'm all about that bass. Oh, it just, it auto 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:08.720 completes in my head. Instantly, right? That 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:11.380 bass, no trouble. It's like a reflex for anyone 00:00:11.380 --> 00:00:14.880 who was near radio in 2014. Exactly. And that's 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:16.539 usually where the conversation about that song 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.620 just stops. We file Meghan Trainor's all about 00:00:19.620 --> 00:00:22.219 that bass under, you know, massive earworm. Yeah, 00:00:22.300 --> 00:00:24.579 candy colored everywhere. Maybe you got sick 00:00:24.579 --> 00:00:28.070 of it. Which is totally fair. But digging into 00:00:28.070 --> 00:00:30.609 the stack of articles and chart histories we 00:00:30.609 --> 00:00:32.909 have for this deep dive, I realized I had the 00:00:32.909 --> 00:00:35.710 whole story wrong. Oh, so I just assumed it was, 00:00:35.789 --> 00:00:38.350 you know, a standard pop product. A label decides, 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:41.329 hey, we need a body positivity anthem, hire some 00:00:41.329 --> 00:00:43.729 writers and boom. That is the usual playbook. 00:00:43.829 --> 00:00:46.649 But this was definitely not that. The story is 00:00:46.649 --> 00:00:49.820 messy. It was a sleeper hit that broke. like 00:00:49.820 --> 00:00:52.159 every rule in the industry at the time. It really 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:53.780 did. And we're not just talking a minor hit. 00:00:53.859 --> 00:00:55.960 It was number one for eight straight weeks in 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:58.460 the U .S. That's a staggering run. And looking 00:00:58.460 --> 00:01:01.280 at the sources, it became more than a song. It 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:04.099 was a catalyst, wasn't it? It forced this huge 00:01:04.099 --> 00:01:07.359 global conversation about body image. A conversation 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:10.700 pop culture was maybe not quite ready for. Definitely 00:01:10.700 --> 00:01:14.219 not. Because for every person who felt seen by 00:01:14.219 --> 00:01:17.659 that song, there was a critic pointing to faux 00:01:17.659 --> 00:01:21.890 feminism. or skinny shaming. It was a total lightning 00:01:21.890 --> 00:01:24.189 rod. So that's our mission for this deep dive. 00:01:24.370 --> 00:01:27.170 We are going to go way past that hook and figure 00:01:27.170 --> 00:01:30.069 out how a 40 minute writing session between two 00:01:30.069 --> 00:01:32.950 Nashville outsiders ended up as a diamond certified 00:01:32.950 --> 00:01:34.590 record. And we're going to get into all that 00:01:34.590 --> 00:01:37.129 friction, too. You really can't talk about this 00:01:37.129 --> 00:01:39.469 song without talking about the backlash. To get 00:01:39.469 --> 00:01:41.409 how unlikely this all was, you have to look at 00:01:41.409 --> 00:01:43.870 where Meghan Trainor was before 2014 because 00:01:43.870 --> 00:01:46.189 she was not on the cover of magazines. Far from 00:01:46.189 --> 00:01:48.510 it. And that context is, I mean, it's totally 00:01:48.510 --> 00:01:51.290 crucial to the song's DNA. She basically given 00:01:51.290 --> 00:01:53.129 up on being an artist. They did release albums 00:01:53.129 --> 00:01:54.569 before, though, right? Yeah, three independent 00:01:54.569 --> 00:01:57.409 ones, but they didn't go anywhere. So by 2012, 00:01:57.709 --> 00:02:00.540 she signs a publishing deal in Nashville. And 00:02:00.540 --> 00:02:02.599 for anyone who doesn't know the industry jargon, 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:04.879 a publishing deal means you're writing songs 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.120 for other people. Exactly. You're the person 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.719 behind the curtain. She moved to Nashville to 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:12.199 be a professional songwriter. The stardom thing 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:16.120 was, in her mind, over. But why? Why give up 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:18.139 on being the front woman? It's actually really 00:02:18.139 --> 00:02:20.039 sad when you read her quotes from that time. 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:22.539 She just didn't think she fit the pop star mold. 00:02:22.939 --> 00:02:26.560 She said she saw herself as one of the chubby 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.139 girls who would never be an artist. Wow. So she 00:02:29.139 --> 00:02:31.439 literally doesn't see a physical space for herself 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:34.240 on a pop stage. None. Which explains why she 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:36.039 was just there to, you know, grind it out as 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:38.159 a writer. OK, so that sets the scene. Fast forward 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:42.620 to June 2013. Right. Carla Wallace from her publishing 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:45.860 company decides to play matchmaker. She sets 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:48.099 Megan up on a writing session with a guy named 00:02:48.099 --> 00:02:51.180 Kevin Kaddish. And was Kaddish like a big name? 00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:54.879 Not really. An industry veteran, but not a star 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:58.000 maker. He even called the session a blind date. 00:02:58.180 --> 00:03:00.060 They'd never met. They had no idea if they'd 00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:02.219 click. That sounds so awkward. Just hi, nice 00:03:02.219 --> 00:03:04.139 to meet you. Now let's write a hit song. Pretty 00:03:04.139 --> 00:03:08.099 much. But they bonded almost immediately. And 00:03:08.099 --> 00:03:10.580 not over modern pop music. What was it then? 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:13.900 They were both obsessed with 1950s and 60s music. 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.580 Do walk. Which, we should point out, was not 00:03:16.580 --> 00:03:19.240 cool in 2013. Not even a little bit. We were 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.830 at peak EDM. But they're in there vibing on oldies, 00:03:22.849 --> 00:03:25.610 and Kaddish pulls out this list of song titles 00:03:25.610 --> 00:03:27.729 he's been keeping. He just had a list of titles. 00:03:28.009 --> 00:03:30.169 Yeah, it's a common songwriter thing. And on 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:32.789 that list was the phrase, all bass, no treble. 00:03:32.990 --> 00:03:35.189 And that just clicked for Trainor. It was this 00:03:35.189 --> 00:03:38.370 amazing cognitive leap. For Kaddish, it was probably 00:03:38.370 --> 00:03:41.259 just a clever audio pun. But Megan immediately 00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:43.680 saw a metaphor for the human body. Okay, let's 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.240 unpack that a little because it's the whole song. 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.219 Right. She basically mapped sound frequencies 00:03:47.219 --> 00:03:50.520 to body types. Bass is the low enso, thickness 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.900 curves. Treble is the high enso, thinness. That's 00:03:53.900 --> 00:03:55.680 actually a pretty smart piece of imagery for 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:58.219 a pop song. It's simple, but it works on a couple 00:03:58.219 --> 00:04:01.000 of levels. It does. And it came from a really 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.740 personal place. She started channeling all her 00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:06.360 own frustrations from her teenage years. And 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.020 Kiddush got it too. He told Rolling Stone he 00:04:09.020 --> 00:04:11.259 had his own body image issues growing up. So 00:04:11.259 --> 00:04:13.840 it was this shared insecurity that sparked it. 00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:16.439 Exactly. Yeah. And the sources all say it happened 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:19.019 incredibly fast. How fast are we talking? 40 00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:21.279 minutes. 40 minutes to write a song that went 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:24.399 diamond? That's insane. I take longer to write 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:26.740 an email. Start to finish. Kiddush built the 00:04:26.740 --> 00:04:29.139 beat, and Trainor basically freestyled the hook 00:04:29.139 --> 00:04:31.100 right over it. It wasn't overthinking, it was 00:04:31.100 --> 00:04:33.259 just pure flow. Okay, so they finish the demo. 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.319 They have this incredibly catchy retro anthem. 00:04:36.459 --> 00:04:38.240 The labels must have jumped on it immediately. 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:41.720 You would think. But nope. They pitched it to 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.699 multiple labels and the answer was a hard no. 00:04:44.980 --> 00:04:47.699 Every single one. Nobody wanted it. Why? Was 00:04:47.699 --> 00:04:49.759 it the lyrics? It was the sound. You have to 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.399 put yourself back in 2014. The radio was all 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:56.720 Calvin Harris, Avicii, Zedd, just massive synth 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.060 drops. Right. Everything sounded like a giant, 00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:02.639 glorious robot. Exactly. And then this song comes 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.879 along that sounds like it's from 1958. The labels 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:08.819 told them flat out, this is too retro. Rerecord 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:10.600 it with synthesizers. They wanted to turn it 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:13.000 into an EDM track. They wanted to strip out everything 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:15.199 that made it special. And here's the crucial 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:18.339 moment. Megan and Kevin said no. Good for them. 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.399 They absolutely stuck to their guns. They believed 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:22.920 that the original demo sound was where the magic 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:25.279 was. Let's get into that sound, because it's 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:28.180 a weird mix. It's not just oldies. No, it's this 00:05:28.180 --> 00:05:31.259 whole genre -bending cocktail. Slate Magazine 00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:33.660 had this great description. They called it Vintage 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:37.220 White Girl, Italo -Latin Soul. That is a mouthful. 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:39.800 What does Italo -Latin Soul even mean, instrument 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.459 -wise? It means it's organic. Kadish played the 00:05:42.459 --> 00:05:45.139 real drums, the guitar, the bass. You've got 00:05:45.139 --> 00:05:46.939 a Hammond organ in there. And that saxophone, 00:05:46.980 --> 00:05:49.060 right? That low honking sound. A baritone sax, 00:05:49.300 --> 00:05:51.680 yeah. That gives it that rhythmic drive. And 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.360 the hand claps and percussion, that's Meghan 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.779 Trainor herself. It just feels human and fun. 00:05:57.019 --> 00:05:59.680 It has a walking pace. Critics called it a scatting 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:03.680 tempo and a shimmying melody. There's some wild 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:07.699 comparisons, actually, to K -pop and even to 00:06:07.699 --> 00:06:10.769 the band Phish. Fish? Really? It's that sort 00:06:10.769 --> 00:06:13.850 of bouncy, infectious rhythm. It feels familiar, 00:06:13.970 --> 00:06:17.069 even if you don't know why. So, okay, they have 00:06:17.069 --> 00:06:19.889 this song. The labels all hate it. How does it 00:06:19.889 --> 00:06:23.350 get from the rejection pile to L .A. Reid's desk? 00:06:23.629 --> 00:06:25.550 It's just a classic case of getting in the right 00:06:25.550 --> 00:06:27.829 room. She gets a meeting with an A &R guy at 00:06:27.829 --> 00:06:29.990 Epic who likes it enough to get her in front 00:06:29.990 --> 00:06:32.149 of Reid himself a week later. And this is the 00:06:32.149 --> 00:06:34.230 big moment. But she doesn't just play the demo. 00:06:34.699 --> 00:06:37.300 She walks in with a ukulele. You're kidding. 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:39.980 A ukulele audition for the chairman of a major 00:06:39.980 --> 00:06:42.839 record label? That is risky. It's so bold. But 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:44.779 she performs it right there, stripped down. And 00:06:44.779 --> 00:06:47.100 it worked. Ellie Reed signed her 20 minutes later. 00:06:47.220 --> 00:06:49.740 20 minutes. He called the song Lightning in a 00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:52.160 Bottle. And did he make them add the synth? He 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:54.839 did not. He completely validated them. He decided 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:56.899 the original demo they made would be the final 00:06:56.899 --> 00:07:00.480 master. That is just an incredible story. But 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.879 once that song was out in the world, things got 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:06.300 complicated. We have to talk about the lyrics. 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:09.279 We do. Because this is where the story pivots 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:13.120 from this fun underdog tale to a full -on cultural 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:15.639 battleground. On its face, the message seems 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.379 so positive. Traynor was trying to push back 00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:21.100 against the silicone Barbie dolls and photoshopped 00:07:21.100 --> 00:07:24.819 magazines. Right. For millions of people, especially 00:07:24.819 --> 00:07:27.959 young women, it was this huge anthem of self 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:31.180 -acceptance. It got compared to Christina Aguilera's 00:07:31.180 --> 00:07:33.360 Beautiful. What? But not everyone heard it that 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.319 way. The backlash was pretty swift. Let's start 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:38.600 with the skinny shaming thing. That was the first 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.379 big critique. It was. Critics argued that to 00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:44.139 lift up curvy women, she was tearing down thin 00:07:44.139 --> 00:07:46.819 women. By calling them trouble. Or spig figures. 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:48.939 And of course, there's the line, go ahead and 00:07:48.939 --> 00:07:50.920 tell them skinny bitches that. Yeah, I remember 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:52.959 hearing that and just thinking, oh, that's a 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.959 choice. It felt unnecessarily divisive. Exactly. 00:07:56.019 --> 00:07:59.180 The argument from places like Vox was that true 00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:02.660 body positivity has to include all bodies. If 00:08:02.660 --> 00:08:04.579 you're just flipping the hierarchy, you haven't 00:08:04.579 --> 00:08:06.740 really fixed the problem. Did she ever respond 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:09.019 to that? She did. She basically said she didn't 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:12.920 work this hard to hate on skinny people and that 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:14.939 she was kind of just joking around. But there 00:08:14.939 --> 00:08:17.459 was a deeper critique too, right? The faux feminism 00:08:17.459 --> 00:08:20.139 argument. This one is more complex. It centers 00:08:20.139 --> 00:08:23.339 on the male gaze, specifically the lyric, boys 00:08:23.339 --> 00:08:26.220 like a little more booty to hold at night. Ah, 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:30.160 okay. So the argument is it's okay to love your 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:34.600 body because men will find you attractive. Precisely. 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.240 Critics said it's not real empowerment if your 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.480 self -worth is still tied to male validation. 00:08:39.820 --> 00:08:42.899 It's not love yourself for you. It's love yourself 00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:45.500 because it'll get you a guy. That's a really 00:08:45.500 --> 00:08:47.559 important distinction. It kind of makes the self 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:49.700 -love conditional. It does. And if you need proof 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:51.600 that the industry knew that line was an issue, 00:08:51.779 --> 00:08:53.960 you just have to look at the Radio Disney edit. 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.100 Oh, I love radio edits. They tell you everything. 00:08:56.340 --> 00:08:58.139 What did they change? Well, there was the normal 00:08:58.139 --> 00:08:59.820 stuff. Shape it, shake it, make it, make it. 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:02.639 But the big change was that line, the booty line. 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:06.480 In the Disney version, it becomes, get this, 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.460 boys like the girls for the beauty they hold 00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:13.159 inside. Wait. What? I know. They changed booty 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:15.600 to hold at night to beauty they hold inside. 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:19.460 That fundamentally changes the entire thesis 00:09:19.460 --> 00:09:22.799 of the song. It's a massive pivot. It ironically 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.159 fixes the feminist critique by making it about 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.679 inner beauty. It's wild. That is fascinating. 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.679 The corporate censorship actually made the song's 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:34.620 message, well, better. Or at least less complicated. 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.259 So the lyrics are causing this whole stir. But 00:09:37.259 --> 00:09:39.600 the video was a phenomenon in itself. All the 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.679 pastels, the dancing. The whole aesthetic. Directed 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:45.179 by Fatima Robinson. But here's the detail that 00:09:45.179 --> 00:09:46.740 really got me from the research. What's that? 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:49.179 Despite the whole love yourself theme, Trainor 00:09:49.179 --> 00:09:50.960 said that the first time she saw the finished 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:55.360 video, she cried. Tears of joy? No. She was insecure. 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:57.419 She didn't like how she looked on camera. She 00:09:57.419 --> 00:09:59.620 said she went in and edited the crap out of it 00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:02.440 herself. Wow. So here she is, about to become 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:04.820 the global face of self -acceptance, and she's 00:10:04.820 --> 00:10:06.679 struggling with her own image in the editing 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:09.019 room. It just shows how real that insecurity 00:10:09.019 --> 00:10:11.720 was for her. Writing the song didn't just magically 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.860 cure it. But the video came out. And it blew 00:10:14.860 --> 00:10:16.860 up, partly because of a platform that doesn't 00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:20.200 even exist anymore. R .I .P. Vine. Explain the 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.600 Vine connection. So one of the dancers in the 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.519 video was a big Vine star named Sion Michalopi. 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:27.519 He's the guy who does the splits. Oh yeah, I 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:29.320 remember him. He shared the video with his followers 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.759 and it just created this viral loop that pushed 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:33.659 it into the YouTube algorithm. It was a perfect 00:10:33.659 --> 00:10:36.559 storm. But like the lyrics, the video brought 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:40.220 its own controversy. Specifically, accusations 00:10:40.220 --> 00:10:44.460 of cultural appropriation. Yes. This came from 00:10:44.460 --> 00:10:47.360 critics at places like Vice and The Fader. They 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.870 pointed to her singing style. which some described 00:10:49.870 --> 00:10:53.090 as a blast. And the visuals, too. Right. There 00:10:53.090 --> 00:10:55.289 are scenes with her surrounded by twerking black 00:10:55.289 --> 00:10:58.289 dancers. The critique was that she was using 00:10:58.289 --> 00:11:00.850 black culture as a prop to seem cool and edgy 00:11:00.850 --> 00:11:03.750 while still being a very safe white pop star. 00:11:03.889 --> 00:11:06.809 It's that classic problem of trying on a culture 00:11:06.809 --> 00:11:09.309 without living the experience. Exactly. It's 00:11:09.309 --> 00:11:11.409 a complicated conversation that followed a lot 00:11:11.409 --> 00:11:13.490 of artists at the time, but it was definitely 00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:15.980 part of the song story. Okay, so let's zoom out. 00:11:16.100 --> 00:11:18.820 You have this retro song, controversial lyrics, 00:11:18.940 --> 00:11:22.980 a viral video, huge debates. What was the actual 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:26.759 tangible impact? The impact was something Vogue 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:30.080 literally called the era of the big booty. I 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:32.100 remember that. The year of the booty. It was 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:35.000 everywhere. And it wasn't just Trainor. You had 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.480 JLo's song Booty and Nicki Minaj's Anaconda all 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.830 in the same year. 2014. It was a full -on cultural 00:11:41.830 --> 00:11:44.629 shift. A massive one. But Trader's Song was the 00:11:44.629 --> 00:11:46.889 one that crossed over to, you know, the mainstream 00:11:46.889 --> 00:11:49.730 grocery store radio audience. And when you change 00:11:49.730 --> 00:11:52.029 the culture that much, there are real -world 00:11:52.029 --> 00:11:54.750 effects. You found some data that just floored 00:11:54.750 --> 00:11:57.929 me. This is my favorite So What metric. Billboard 00:11:57.929 --> 00:12:00.990 reported that one New York doctor saw a 25 % 00:12:00.990 --> 00:12:03.710 increase in Brazilian buttock augmentation surgeries 00:12:03.710 --> 00:12:06.350 in 2014. Wait, really? People were getting surgery 00:12:06.350 --> 00:12:08.470 because of this trend? It sure seems like it. 00:12:08.889 --> 00:12:10.750 And a company that makes padded underwear called 00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:14.610 Booty Pop saw 47 % jump in demand. That is the 00:12:14.610 --> 00:12:17.289 power of a pop song. It didn't just reflect culture, 00:12:17.350 --> 00:12:20.350 it physically altered it. That's wild. It really 00:12:20.350 --> 00:12:22.669 is. And you know you've hit peak culture when 00:12:22.669 --> 00:12:24.870 the parodies start. Oh, the parodies, they were 00:12:24.870 --> 00:12:28.649 inescapable. You had NASA interns doing all about 00:12:28.649 --> 00:12:31.210 that space. Which was great. The Holderness family 00:12:31.210 --> 00:12:33.990 had that huge Thanksgiving viral hit all about 00:12:33.990 --> 00:12:36.970 that bass. More butter, no treble, I can still 00:12:36.970 --> 00:12:40.120 hear it. And even a Star Wars one? All about 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:44.799 that bass. No rebels. The hook was just a perfect 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.200 meme format. And the sales numbers. Just unbelievable. 00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:50.759 It was the best -selling song by a female artist 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:53.700 in the 2010s in the U .S., Diamond Certified, 00:12:53.779 --> 00:12:57.919 number one in 58 countries. 58. For a debut single. 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:00.320 From a writer who thought she'd never be an artist. 00:13:00.580 --> 00:13:03.860 It shattered records. So, to bring it all home... 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:06.200 We have a song written in 40 minutes that gets 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:08.799 rejected by everyone. It gets signed on the strength 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:10.919 of a ukulele performance. And then it just takes 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:13.299 over the entire planet. But in doing so, it forces 00:13:13.299 --> 00:13:16.600 these incredibly difficult, messy conversations 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:21.139 about body image, feminism, and race. When you 00:13:21.139 --> 00:13:22.799 lay it out like that, it sounds like fiction, 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:24.639 but that's the story. It really feels like a 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.299 double -edged sword. It is. On one hand, it genuinely 00:13:28.299 --> 00:13:31.039 empowered millions of people. You can't take 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.700 that away. That's a real tangible good. But on 00:13:33.700 --> 00:13:36.039 the other. It also showed how hard it is to talk 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:38.220 about body positivity in a three -minute pop 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:41.919 song without alienating someone or falling into 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.559 a trap like seeking male validation. It's messy. 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:48.850 It's very messy. But it did open a door. Looking 00:13:48.850 --> 00:13:51.789 back, it was a pivotal moment where pop music 00:13:51.789 --> 00:13:53.649 started to sound and look a little different. 00:13:53.789 --> 00:13:55.950 And that's a legacy worth having, I think, even 00:13:55.950 --> 00:13:57.929 with all the controversy. Absolutely. Before 00:13:57.929 --> 00:13:59.929 we wrap, I want to leave you with one final thought 00:13:59.929 --> 00:14:02.610 to mull over. And it goes back to that Radio 00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:05.250 Disney edit. The booty to beauty swap. It just 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:08.850 sticks with me. If that line about physical validation 00:14:08.850 --> 00:14:12.029 was so easily swapped for something so profound 00:14:12.029 --> 00:14:15.519 about inner beauty. Does that suggest the original 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:17.659 lyric was just a calculated commercial choice 00:14:17.659 --> 00:14:20.720 to begin with? Or maybe did the corporate censorship 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.340 accidentally create a better, more meaningful 00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:25.559 song than the one that was originally written? 00:14:25.779 --> 00:14:27.879 That's the question. Sometimes the edit reveals 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:30.240 what could have been. Thanks for listening to 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.179 this deep dive. We'll catch you on the next one.