WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.219 Okay, so let's just jump right in. The date today 00:00:04.219 --> 00:00:09.599 is Tuesday, February 17th, 2026. A very specific 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.939 date for a very specific reason. Exactly. And 00:00:12.939 --> 00:00:14.699 if you're listening to this right now and you 00:00:14.699 --> 00:00:17.260 happen to be, say, in Silver Spring, Maryland, 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.239 maybe on Colesville Road. Right in front of the 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:22.059 Sun War. You're probably seeing a very, very 00:00:22.059 --> 00:00:24.620 long line of people. A lot of energy. Oh, for 00:00:24.620 --> 00:00:26.820 sure. That kind of pre -show buzz, you can almost 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:29.420 feel it through the microphone. A line of people 00:00:29.420 --> 00:00:31.300 who are, you know, getting ready to experience 00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:33.679 some serious emotions. The kind of show where 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:35.000 you know you're going to sing at the top of your 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.960 lungs, probably cry a little, and definitely 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:39.880 walk out with no voice. It's a catharsis. Because 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:42.579 right now, literally as we're talking, Lauren 00:00:42.579 --> 00:00:44.939 Spencer -Smith is probably backstage at that 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:47.479 very venue doing her vocal warm -ups, getting 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:49.479 ready to hit that stage. It's another stop on 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:51.740 this absolutely massive world tour she's on. 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:54.280 The art of being a... And massive is the right 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:57.560 word. She kicked this whole thing off way back 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.600 in late 2025. Yeah, she already did the whole 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:02.880 European leg, then flew all the way down for 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:05.519 the Oceania dates. And now she's, what, a couple 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:07.760 of weeks into the big North American run. Which 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.500 really, I think, sets the perfect scene for what 00:01:10.500 --> 00:01:13.340 we want to unpack today. Because you look at 00:01:13.340 --> 00:01:16.019 an artist like her selling out historic venues, 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:20.090 and it's so easy. To just slap a label on it. 00:01:20.150 --> 00:01:22.909 Oh, 100%. The label is TikTok star. Exactly. 00:01:22.909 --> 00:01:25.090 Oh, she's the girl who got famous on the internet. 00:01:25.189 --> 00:01:26.689 And you just assume that's the beginning and 00:01:26.689 --> 00:01:29.810 end of the story. Which is, I mean, it's such 00:01:29.810 --> 00:01:32.010 a surface level take. It's not wrong, but it's 00:01:32.010 --> 00:01:34.569 like describing an iceberg by only talking about 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:36.629 the tip. Right. If you actually dig into the 00:01:36.629 --> 00:01:39.170 mechanics of her career, Lauren Spencer Smith 00:01:39.170 --> 00:01:42.730 is, for my money, the perfect case study of what 00:01:42.730 --> 00:01:45.819 I've started calling the modern hybrid. Pop star. 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.819 Hybrid. I like that. What do you mean by that 00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:49.420 exactly? Well, think about the different paths 00:01:49.420 --> 00:01:51.420 to stardom, right? There's the old way and the 00:01:51.420 --> 00:01:53.560 new way. She didn't just pick one. She didn't 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:56.379 just sit in her room posting videos and praying 00:01:56.379 --> 00:01:59.079 to the algorithm gods. She did the old school 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.700 stuff. She went through the absolute meat grinder 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:06.540 of reality TV with American Idol. A path that 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:09.240 has chewed up and spit out countless talented 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:12.099 people. Countless. And at the same time, she 00:02:12.099 --> 00:02:14.180 was chasing those traditional industry accolades 00:02:14.180 --> 00:02:16.840 like a Juno Award nomination in Canada. That's 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:18.659 the old guard. That's the industry telling you 00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:22.139 you're legitimate. Exactly. But then she merged 00:02:22.139 --> 00:02:25.479 that with the new way. She harnessed the chaotic, 00:02:25.659 --> 00:02:28.580 completely unpredictable, but incredibly powerful 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:31.699 engine of TikTok to build a fan base that is, 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:35.360 well, it's clearly sustainable. She blended the 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:37.400 music business of yesterday with the creator 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.379 economy of today. And that right there is our 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:42.319 mission for this deep dive. We're calling it 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:44.680 the anatomy of a modern breakout. We want to 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.379 really explore this very specific, almost paradoxical 00:02:47.379 --> 00:02:49.300 question. It's a great question. How does a singer 00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:51.520 lose American Idol? And I mean really lose, not 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:53.759 like a dramatic runner -up finish. She didn't 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.169 even make the top ten. Not even close. Then she 00:02:56.169 --> 00:02:59.270 loses a Juno award to a literal rock legend, 00:02:59.389 --> 00:03:01.750 Bryan Adams, a guy who was famous before she 00:03:01.750 --> 00:03:05.629 was born. And yet she still ends up here in 2026 00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:09.009 with a string of multi platinum global hits and 00:03:09.009 --> 00:03:11.090 a world tour that's selling out left and right. 00:03:11.330 --> 00:03:14.129 How does that happen? It's fascinating because 00:03:14.129 --> 00:03:17.469 in a traditional sense, those are failures. Those 00:03:17.469 --> 00:03:19.490 are rejections that would derail a career before 00:03:19.490 --> 00:03:21.599 it even started. But for her, it almost feels 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:23.979 like rejection was the fuel. It was the catalyst. 00:03:24.219 --> 00:03:26.319 So we need to trace that evolution. We're going 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:27.979 to go all the way back to those early kind of 00:03:27.979 --> 00:03:30.800 scrappy unplugged albums and follow the thread 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:33.939 right up to her 2025 sophomore record, The Art 00:03:33.939 --> 00:03:36.210 of Being a Mess. So let's do it. Let's rewind 00:03:36.210 --> 00:03:38.650 the tape way, way back before the tour buses, 00:03:38.830 --> 00:03:40.729 before the millions of streams, before any of 00:03:40.729 --> 00:03:43.069 it. Let's start with this myth of the overnight 00:03:43.069 --> 00:03:45.250 success. The biggest myth in the music industry. 00:03:45.430 --> 00:03:47.389 Because I think a lot of people see a viral star 00:03:47.389 --> 00:03:49.430 and just assume they materialized out of thin 00:03:49.430 --> 00:03:51.729 air yesterday with a hit song. And it is almost 00:03:51.729 --> 00:03:54.569 never, ever true. And it is definitely not the 00:03:54.569 --> 00:03:57.330 case here. Her timeline actually begins across 00:03:57.330 --> 00:04:00.979 the Atlantic. Portsmouth, UK, back in 2003. The 00:04:00.979 --> 00:04:02.780 British baby. I always have to remind myself 00:04:02.780 --> 00:04:05.080 that's part of her biography. It is, but very 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:07.699 briefly. She was born there, but the family, 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:10.379 her parents and her brother, moved to Canada 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:13.000 when she was just three years old. And they settled 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:16.100 on Vancouver Island. Yep. Specifically in and 00:04:16.100 --> 00:04:19.100 around Port Alberni and Nanaimo, British Columbia. 00:04:19.259 --> 00:04:20.839 Which is a beautiful part of the world. I mean, 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:25.259 stunningly scenic, but also pretty quiet. Not 00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:28.199 exactly a bustling music metropolis. Not at all. 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:31.560 Which, you could argue, makes the noise she started 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:34.180 making even more impressive. There was less distraction. 00:04:34.899 --> 00:04:37.019 And the narrative from the very beginning, and, 00:04:37.100 --> 00:04:38.560 you know, we have to take this with a grain of 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:40.639 salt because it comes from her proud parents. 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:43.319 Of course, the parental bias. Every kid is a 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.740 prodigy to their parents. Right. But their claim 00:04:45.740 --> 00:04:47.879 was that she was a musical prodigy. They said 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:49.759 she was singing basically as soon as she could 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.120 form sentences. Her first public performance 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:55.110 in front of her school was at age six. Age six. 00:04:55.209 --> 00:04:57.930 See, at age six, I think my greatest accomplishment 00:04:57.930 --> 00:05:00.610 was learning to tie my shoes without making the 00:05:00.610 --> 00:05:03.329 bunny ears. I was definitely not commanding a 00:05:03.329 --> 00:05:05.889 stage. She was already getting her reps in, getting 00:05:05.889 --> 00:05:08.149 comfortable in front of people. But even with 00:05:08.149 --> 00:05:11.269 that early start, there's a very specific moment 00:05:11.269 --> 00:05:14.149 that I think is the key to understanding her 00:05:14.149 --> 00:05:17.610 entire motivation as an artist. We have to talk 00:05:17.610 --> 00:05:20.110 about the Keith Urban catalyst. Oh, this is such 00:05:20.110 --> 00:05:21.750 a great story. It really does sound like a scene 00:05:21.750 --> 00:05:24.670 from a movie. This is 2014, right? 2014. So she 00:05:24.670 --> 00:05:27.470 would have been, what, 11 years old? Just a kid. 00:05:27.649 --> 00:05:30.310 Exactly. Yeah. Now, at 11, most of us are using 00:05:30.310 --> 00:05:33.189 YouTube to watch cartoon clips or, I don't know, 00:05:33.269 --> 00:05:36.430 funny cat videos. Sure. She joins YouTube for 00:05:36.430 --> 00:05:39.410 a very specific purpose, to post an audition 00:05:39.410 --> 00:05:43.230 for a contest. And the contest prize is... Well, 00:05:43.310 --> 00:05:45.569 it's pretty spectacular. It wasn't a $50 gift 00:05:45.569 --> 00:05:47.629 card, that's for sure. Not even close. She ends 00:05:47.629 --> 00:05:50.290 up winning this contest. And the prize is the 00:05:50.290 --> 00:05:53.209 chance to perform on stage live with Keith Urban. 00:05:53.350 --> 00:05:55.550 The country music superstar Keith Urban. The 00:05:55.550 --> 00:05:58.269 one and only. So I want you to just picture this 00:05:58.269 --> 00:06:00.449 scene for a second. You're 11 years old. You're 00:06:00.449 --> 00:06:03.350 from a pretty small town on an island. And suddenly 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:06.089 you are standing on a massive festival stage 00:06:06.089 --> 00:06:09.129 under the bright lights next to one of the biggest 00:06:09.129 --> 00:06:12.160 names in music. With a real sound system, a real 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:14.720 band, and thousands and thousands of people staring 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.420 back at you. The roar of that crowd. That has 00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:19.379 to fundamentally change you. It has to rewire 00:06:19.379 --> 00:06:21.540 your brain chemistry at that age. I can't even 00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:23.819 imagine. It must have been terrifying and exhilarating 00:06:23.819 --> 00:06:27.040 all at once. And it was. She has said in interviews, 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.399 very explicitly, that this was the exact moment 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:32.699 she decided, okay, I'm going to sing forever. 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.720 It stopped being a hobby. It stopped being just 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:38.000 something she was good at. It became the mission. 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:40.519 It became the singular goal. Yeah. Because it 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:42.860 validated the dream in a way that singing in 00:06:42.860 --> 00:06:45.680 your bedroom or even in a school auditorium never 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.959 could. It made the fantasy feel real and, more 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.120 importantly, attainable. And she didn't just 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:53.720 rest on that one moment. That just lit the fire. 00:06:53.819 --> 00:06:56.180 She kept grinding away for years after that. 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.319 Absolutely. The next big marker comes in 2019. 00:06:59.860 --> 00:07:02.699 She records a cover of Always Remember Us This 00:07:02.699 --> 00:07:05.470 Way. The Lady Gaga song from A Star is Born. 00:07:05.790 --> 00:07:07.689 Which, we should point out, is a vocalist song. 00:07:07.990 --> 00:07:10.829 That is a technical and emotional mountain to 00:07:10.829 --> 00:07:13.649 climb. You cannot phone that in. You can't fake 00:07:13.649 --> 00:07:15.670 your way through those notes. It requires immense 00:07:15.670 --> 00:07:19.250 power, control, and vulnerability. And her version 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:21.430 goes viral. It does. It catches the attention 00:07:21.430 --> 00:07:24.389 of all people. Steve Harvey. The TV host. Yep. 00:07:24.449 --> 00:07:27.129 He sees the video, is blown away, and invites 00:07:27.129 --> 00:07:30.019 her to perform on his talk show. So now she's 00:07:30.019 --> 00:07:33.139 getting that mainstream national television visibility. 00:07:33.500 --> 00:07:35.779 She's leveling up. But this is the part of her 00:07:35.779 --> 00:07:38.300 early career that I find so fascinating, and 00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:40.579 I feel like it gets completely glossed over in 00:07:40.579 --> 00:07:42.860 her biography, the Juno Awards. Oh, it's the 00:07:42.860 --> 00:07:45.759 most telling detail of her entire pre -fame career. 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.610 It's the key that unlocks everything. Okay, so 00:07:48.610 --> 00:07:51.410 break it down. In 2019, she puts out a live album. 00:07:51.470 --> 00:07:53.829 It's called Unplugged, Volume 1. And let's be 00:07:53.829 --> 00:07:55.509 clear about what this was. This was an independent 00:07:55.509 --> 00:07:58.610 release. It was raw. It was just her and a microphone, 00:07:58.750 --> 00:08:02.310 basically. No giant production budget. No layers 00:08:02.310 --> 00:08:05.230 of auto -tune. Just pure vocal performance. Just 00:08:05.230 --> 00:08:08.649 the talent. Just the talent. And then, in 2020, 00:08:08.990 --> 00:08:11.509 the nominations for the Juno Awards come out. 00:08:11.980 --> 00:08:13.759 Now, for any of our listeners who aren't familiar, 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:16.800 the Junos are Canada's version of the Grammys. 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:19.399 It is the absolute highest honor in Canadian 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:22.620 music. A huge deal. And she gets a nomination. 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.819 She does. And here's the unbelievable part. She 00:08:25.819 --> 00:08:28.300 wasn't nominated for, like... Children's Album 00:08:28.300 --> 00:08:31.339 of the Year. She wasn't nominated for Breakthrough 00:08:31.339 --> 00:08:33.500 Artist or some sort of youth category. Which 00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:35.019 would have made sense. She was a teenager. She 00:08:35.019 --> 00:08:37.940 was 16 years old. She gets nominated for Adult 00:08:37.940 --> 00:08:40.559 Contemporary Album of the Year. Adult Contemporary. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.860 That's the category for, like, Michael Bublé 00:08:42.860 --> 00:08:45.000 and Celine Dion. That's exactly who it's for. 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.980 It's for established, mature vocalists. And get 00:08:47.980 --> 00:08:50.059 this. Look at who she was competing against. 00:08:50.500 --> 00:08:52.860 She ended up losing the award to Bryan Adams 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:55.740 for his album Shine a Light. Brian Adams. The 00:08:55.740 --> 00:08:59.480 Summer of 69 guy. The man is a Canadian rock 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:02.159 institution. He's a legend. So think about the 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.039 optics of that for a second. You have this 16 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:05.820 -year -old girl with a self -released stripped 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.000 -down live album. And the Canadian music industry, 00:09:09.179 --> 00:09:12.220 the so -called gatekeepers, are putting her in 00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:14.759 the same category, on the same level, as a rock 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:17.019 icon who's been selling out arenas since the 00:09:17.019 --> 00:09:19.960 1980s. The fact that she lost is completely irrelevant. 00:09:20.179 --> 00:09:23.120 It means nothing. The win was the nomination. 00:09:23.820 --> 00:09:26.399 The wind was being in that room. It signaled 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.460 that the industry wasn't viewing her as a kid 00:09:28.460 --> 00:09:31.759 or a novelty act. They were hearing a vocal maturity 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.200 that was miles beyond her biological age. They 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.899 treated her as a peer to Bryan Adams. It's incredible 00:09:37.899 --> 00:09:40.080 validation. It's the industry saying, we see 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:43.179 you, you're the real deal. But it didn't translate 00:09:43.179 --> 00:09:45.779 to mainstream fame just yet. No, it was an insider 00:09:45.779 --> 00:09:48.559 nod, a critical darling moment. To get the public 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:50.899 fully on board, she decided to take a shot at 00:09:50.899 --> 00:09:52.940 the biggest, loudest, most well -known machine 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:55.100 in the music business. She decided to audition 00:09:55.100 --> 00:09:57.700 for American Idol. The great star -making machine. 00:09:57.980 --> 00:10:00.320 Or, as it turned out, the great star detouring 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.820 machine. Because she landed on season 18. The 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:07.220 infamous season 18. The year 2020. Ah, the pandemic 00:10:07.220 --> 00:10:10.340 season. Exactly. The context here is everything. 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:13.240 She competes in the season. She does well in 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.779 the early rounds. And just as things are supposed 00:10:15.779 --> 00:10:19.669 to ramp up, The world shuts down. COVID -19 hits. 00:10:19.870 --> 00:10:23.269 So all those big, glossy Hollywood studio shows, 00:10:23.529 --> 00:10:26.610 gone. Canceled. The lights went out on the big 00:10:26.610 --> 00:10:29.549 stage. There's no live audience, no band, no 00:10:29.549 --> 00:10:32.269 spectacle. So instead of the glamour and the 00:10:32.269 --> 00:10:35.070 makeup chair and the giant stage, she's performing 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:37.169 from where? She's performing from her father's 00:10:37.169 --> 00:10:39.259 house back in Port Alberni. And I remember seeing 00:10:39.259 --> 00:10:41.840 those clips. She had that beautiful view of Sproat 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:44.440 Lake in the background. It was picturesque, for 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:47.419 sure. It looked great on a TV screen. But as 00:10:47.419 --> 00:10:51.059 a performer, it has to be an energetic nightmare. 00:10:51.379 --> 00:10:53.639 What do you mean? Well, performers feed off the 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:56.000 energy of a crowd. You hit a big note, you hear 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.100 the applause, you feel that wave of emotion coming 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:00.360 back at you, and it fuels the next part of your 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:02.519 performance. Right. It's a feedback loop. It's 00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:05.179 a total feedback loop. But she was singing her 00:11:05.179 --> 00:11:08.379 heart out, hitting these massive, powerful notes 00:11:08.379 --> 00:11:12.600 to an iPad propped up on a stand. There's no 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.600 applause. There's no roar. There's just silence 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.120 after the music stops. It's got to be incredibly 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.659 disorienting. And despite those weird circumstances, 00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:23.259 she was really good on the show. Let's look at 00:11:23.259 --> 00:11:25.139 her track record, because she wasn't just some 00:11:25.139 --> 00:11:27.360 filler contestant who got cut early. She came 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.340 in strong. Very strong. Her audition was What 00:11:30.340 --> 00:11:32.919 About Us by Pink. Which is a beast of a song. 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:36.320 And the judges put her through immediately. Yep, 00:11:36.379 --> 00:11:38.799 no hesitation. Then you get to the Hollywood 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:41.059 rounds, which are designed to separate the good 00:11:41.059 --> 00:11:43.679 singers from the great ones. And look at her 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.299 song choices. She went for the jugular. She really 00:11:46.299 --> 00:11:48.980 did. She sang Because of You by the original 00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:52.190 Idol. Kelly Clarkson. She sang Set Fire to the 00:11:52.190 --> 00:11:55.730 Rain by Adele. She sang The Joke by Brandi Carlile. 00:11:55.850 --> 00:11:58.090 OK, those are not safe choices. Those are what 00:11:58.090 --> 00:12:00.490 you'd call high difficulty level songs. They're 00:12:00.490 --> 00:12:03.360 vocal Olympic events. You do not attempt an Adele 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:06.399 song on national television unless you are supremely 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:08.799 confident in your technical ability. You will 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:10.779 get exposed very, very quickly if you're not 00:12:10.779 --> 00:12:13.179 up to it. But she nailed them. She kept advancing. 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.120 For the showcase round to get into the top 40, 00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:19.559 she did Respect by Aretha Franklin. Another titan. 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:22.340 She was clearly positioning herself as this generation's 00:12:22.340 --> 00:12:24.559 powerhouse vocalist. She was making a statement 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.399 with every song choice. And it worked. Up to 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:29.919 a point. She makes it to the top 20 round. This 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.279 is where America starts voting. And she sings 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:35.980 Mama Knows Best by Jessie J. A big, sassy, up 00:12:35.980 --> 00:12:38.220 -tempo number. And that was it. The end of the 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:41.840 road. Eliminated. The screen goes black on her 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:43.840 idle journey. She doesn't make the top 10. She 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:46.860 barely cracks the top 20. For most people, that's 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:49.120 the end of the story. But this brings us to what 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.960 you called the idle paradox. Yes. And I think 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.460 this is maybe the most crucial pivot in her entire 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:57.759 career. Because on the surface, getting eliminated 00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.799 from a competition is a failure. You want to 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:02.100 win the confetti, the recording contract, the 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.019 whole package. That's the dream they sell you. 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.620 It's the dream they sold in 2005. But in the 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:11.860 2020s, being eliminated early can be a massive, 00:13:11.980 --> 00:13:15.149 massive blessing in disguise. Oh, so. Think about 00:13:15.149 --> 00:13:17.370 the winner's contract. If you win American Idol, 00:13:17.529 --> 00:13:20.470 you are often locked into these incredibly specific, 00:13:20.750 --> 00:13:24.009 very restrictive recording contracts. The show's 00:13:24.009 --> 00:13:26.950 production company, 19 Entertainment, they effectively 00:13:26.950 --> 00:13:29.409 own your image. They dictate your sound. They 00:13:29.409 --> 00:13:31.509 choose your first single. They decide your release 00:13:31.509 --> 00:13:33.950 schedule. You're an employee of the franchise. 00:13:34.029 --> 00:13:36.549 You're playing the role of the Idol winner. You 00:13:36.549 --> 00:13:38.629 have very little creative freedom for that first 00:13:38.629 --> 00:13:40.870 album cycle. And if that first single doesn't 00:13:40.870 --> 00:13:42.710 hit, you can get dropped pretty quickly. But 00:13:42.710 --> 00:13:44.570 if you get cut in the top 20... You're a free 00:13:44.570 --> 00:13:46.850 agent. You've gotten all this primetime television 00:13:46.850 --> 00:13:49.309 exposure. Millions of people have seen your face 00:13:49.309 --> 00:13:51.610 and heard your voice. You've built a small but 00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:54.730 dedicated fan base. But you have zero contractual 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:56.990 obligations. You can go home to Port Alberni 00:13:56.990 --> 00:13:58.929 and do whatever you want, musically. You get 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:01.450 the marketing without the handcuffs. Precisely. 00:14:01.669 --> 00:14:04.559 And she's in very good company here. The source 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:07.620 material for our deep dive even lists Benson 00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:10.980 Boone as an Idol alumnus. He didn't win either. 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:13.840 He actually quit the show. And he's had massive 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.720 hits. Beautiful Things was everywhere. Exactly. 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:19.580 It's almost become a modern badge of honor to 00:14:19.580 --> 00:14:21.720 lose Idol and then go on to have a bigger career 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:24.600 than the person who won your season. It proves 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:26.659 you didn't need the machine to validate you. 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:28.860 Which leads us perfectly into the next chapter 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:31.700 of her story. Because she took that freedom, 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.519 that lack of handcuffs, and she sprinted with 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.000 it. This is the moment where everything changes. 00:14:37.299 --> 00:14:39.500 This is the shift from the gatekeepers, the TV 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:42.259 judges, the record execs, to the people. This 00:14:42.259 --> 00:14:45.740 is January 2022. And the song is Fingers Crossed. 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:47.960 I mean, even just saying that title, the chorus 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:49.720 immediately starts playing in my head. It's that 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.740 infectious. But the way this song became a hit, 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.639 this wasn't a label spending millions on a radio 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:57.879 campaign. This wasn't a boardroom decision. Not 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:01.000 at all. It started as a demo. A snippet. She 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.220 posted a clip of the song on TikTok before it 00:15:03.220 --> 00:15:05.200 was even finished, before it was properly produced 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.580 or mixed. Just a raw emotional verse and chorus. 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:11.440 Just her and a piano, basically. And that one 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:15.690 clip, it just exploded. You get 30 million views, 00:15:15.929 --> 00:15:18.490 30 million people in her comment section screaming, 00:15:18.690 --> 00:15:21.049 when can we hear the full song? Please release 00:15:21.049 --> 00:15:24.629 this. Where's the Spotify link? That is an insane 00:15:24.629 --> 00:15:26.970 amount of pent up demand. That's not just interest. 00:15:27.029 --> 00:15:29.149 That's leverage. That's all the leverage in the 00:15:29.149 --> 00:15:31.169 world. So by the time she finally dropped the 00:15:31.169 --> 00:15:34.169 full finished version of the song. The dam just 00:15:34.169 --> 00:15:36.129 burst. The numbers were staggering. They were. 00:15:36.230 --> 00:15:39.190 The song did 10 to 15 million streams within 00:15:39.190 --> 00:15:41.990 its first 12 hours of being released. 12 hours. 00:15:42.110 --> 00:15:44.629 That's Taylor Swift -level engagement. That's 00:15:44.629 --> 00:15:46.730 the kind of debut you see from a global superstar, 00:15:47.009 --> 00:15:49.149 not a so -called idol reject. It was completely 00:15:49.149 --> 00:15:51.889 undeniable. And the charts reflected that raw 00:15:51.889 --> 00:15:54.549 power immediately. It rocketed into the top 20 00:15:54.549 --> 00:15:57.029 here in the U .S. It hit the top 10 in the U 00:15:57.029 --> 00:16:00.899 .K., Australia, New Zealand, Ireland. All over 00:16:00.899 --> 00:16:02.820 the world. And the certifications just started 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:05.259 pouring in. Multi -platinum in Canada. I think 00:16:05.259 --> 00:16:07.740 it's 3x platinum there now. 2x platinum in Australia. 00:16:07.899 --> 00:16:09.980 Platinum in the U .S. and the U .K. It was a 00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:12.200 monster. And the most important part of this 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.179 from a business perspective is that initially 00:16:14.179 --> 00:16:17.120 this was a self -release track. She did it herself. 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:19.539 She owned it. Later, of course, she partnered 00:16:19.539 --> 00:16:22.340 with Island Records and Republic Records to handle 00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:25.019 the massive global distribution and the big radio 00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:30.279 push. But the spark, the proof of concept. That 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:33.220 was all her. She basically walked into the record 00:16:33.220 --> 00:16:35.980 label offices and said, look at this data. This 00:16:35.980 --> 00:16:38.100 song is already a hit. You don't have to guess. 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:39.659 You don't have to roll the dice. Let's help me 00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:42.220 make it bigger. It completely flips the power 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:45.039 dynamic in the music industry. The artists can 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.980 now prove their viability before they ever sign 00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:50.700 a deal. Of course, whenever a young female artist 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:53.240 writes a huge emotional heartbreak ballad that 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.129 blows up on social media. The comparisons are 00:16:56.129 --> 00:16:57.990 inevitable. Oh, immediately. The first thing 00:16:57.990 --> 00:17:00.950 everyone said was, is this the next Olivia Rodrigo? 00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:02.610 That was the dominant narrative for a while, 00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:04.930 right? And it makes sense on the surface. They 00:17:04.930 --> 00:17:07.829 both tapped into that raw, unfiltered, almost 00:17:07.829 --> 00:17:10.329 diary entry style of songwriting that resonated 00:17:10.329 --> 00:17:13.829 so deeply with Gen Z that drivers license energy. 00:17:14.029 --> 00:17:17.430 The specificity of the lyrics. Yes. The feeling 00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:21.410 that you're hearing a real painful story. But 00:17:21.410 --> 00:17:23.230 I've always felt Lauren brings a different vocal 00:17:23.230 --> 00:17:26.230 texture to the table. That power ballad training 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:28.829 from her idle days, that adult contemporary gene 00:17:28.829 --> 00:17:31.029 we talked about from the Junos, it gives her 00:17:31.029 --> 00:17:34.029 a slightly different, more muscular vocal approach. 00:17:34.170 --> 00:17:37.170 A bit more old school belter in her DNA. Exactly. 00:17:37.509 --> 00:17:40.529 But after a hit that big, the pressure is immense. 00:17:40.890 --> 00:17:43.650 The big fear is always the same for a new artist. 00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:46.250 The one hit wonder question. The dreaded sophomore 00:17:46.250 --> 00:17:48.890 single curse. It is one of the hardest hurdles 00:17:48.890 --> 00:17:51.549 to clear in a music career. You've captured the 00:17:51.549 --> 00:17:53.329 world's attention for a fleeting moment. Can 00:17:53.329 --> 00:17:55.660 you hold it? can you prove it wasn't a fluke 00:17:55.660 --> 00:17:59.180 so the calendar flips to april 2022 she needs 00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:02.299 a follow -up and she drops the song flowers now 00:18:02.299 --> 00:18:04.500 just to be clear for everyone listening this 00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:06.759 is not the miley cyrus song flowers right very 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:08.920 important distinction different song completely 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.500 different vibe but this song if we're really 00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:14.740 going to do a deep dive we need to stop and analyze 00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:16.980 the lyrics here because she did something incredibly 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:19.259 clever and honestly very brave from a songwriting 00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:21.779 perspective she wrote a song about a trauma response 00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:24.569 Explain that, because if you just listen casually, 00:18:24.670 --> 00:18:27.029 it sounds like a sweet love song. It is, but 00:18:27.029 --> 00:18:30.150 it's a love song with a dark undercurrent. The 00:18:30.150 --> 00:18:32.430 whole concept is that she's finally in a new, 00:18:32.529 --> 00:18:35.430 healthy relationship. Her new boyfriend buys 00:18:35.430 --> 00:18:38.549 her flowers. A classic romantic gesture. Should 00:18:38.549 --> 00:18:41.269 be. He brings them home randomly just to be nice. 00:18:41.869 --> 00:18:44.410 It's a Tuesday, here's some flowers, because 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:46.650 I was thinking of you. And that should be a beautiful 00:18:46.650 --> 00:18:50.410 moment. It should be. But her immediate gut reaction 00:18:50.410 --> 00:18:54.170 isn't joy or gratitude. It's panic. It's anxiety. 00:18:54.470 --> 00:18:56.809 Why? Because in her previous toxic relationship, 00:18:57.150 --> 00:18:59.750 she was conditioned to believe that flowers were 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:02.910 only ever an apology. The ex -boyfriend only 00:19:02.910 --> 00:19:04.950 bought her flowers after he messed up, after 00:19:04.950 --> 00:19:07.490 he cheated, after he lied. Flowers meant, I'm 00:19:07.490 --> 00:19:10.109 sorry. So when she gets flowers for no reason... 00:19:10.109 --> 00:19:12.150 Her brain short circuits, goes into overdrive. 00:19:12.170 --> 00:19:14.089 What did you do? Why are you apologizing? What 00:19:14.089 --> 00:19:16.480 are you telling me? She can't accept the gesture 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.680 at face value because of the emotional scars 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:22.500 from her past. Wow, that hits hard. That is such 00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:25.000 a specific and painfully relatable psychological 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.119 knot to untangle. And that specificity is exactly 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.319 why it worked. It wasn't another generic I'm 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.460 in love song. It was a song about the post -traumatic 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:37.200 stress of a bad relationship bleeding into a 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.630 new good one. She even told People magazine it 00:19:40.630 --> 00:19:42.170 was one of her favorite songs she's ever written. 00:19:42.269 --> 00:19:44.309 And you can feel that personal connection. And 00:19:44.309 --> 00:19:46.470 the audience clearly felt it too. It proved she 00:19:46.470 --> 00:19:49.230 wasn't a fluke. Not at all. Flowers went on to 00:19:49.230 --> 00:19:51.730 be certified platinum in Canada, the U .S., and 00:19:51.730 --> 00:19:54.589 Australia. It solidified her place. It showed 00:19:54.589 --> 00:19:56.690 she had more stories to tell. And she just kept 00:19:56.690 --> 00:19:59.910 building on that honest, sad girl pop energy. 00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:04.309 Later in 2022, she released... Narcissist. Another 00:20:04.309 --> 00:20:06.349 fantastic one -word, straight -to -the -point 00:20:06.349 --> 00:20:08.369 title. Which also picked up a bunch of gold and 00:20:08.369 --> 00:20:11.250 platinum certifications. And then in 2023, she 00:20:11.250 --> 00:20:14.250 started exploring themes beyond just romantic 00:20:14.250 --> 00:20:18.029 heartbreak. She released 28 and Best Friend Breakup. 00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:20.049 And Best Friend Breakup is such an important 00:20:20.049 --> 00:20:22.390 song. It's a topic that is so under -discussed 00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:24.690 in pop music. We have a billion songs about breaking 00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:26.309 up with a boyfriend or girlfriend. A trillion, 00:20:26.450 --> 00:20:30.710 maybe. But losing a best friend. That platonic 00:20:30.710 --> 00:20:33.700 heartbreak. For a lot of people, that hurts just 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:36.019 as much, if not more sometimes. It's a completely 00:20:36.019 --> 00:20:37.980 different kind of grief. And she tapped right 00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:40.119 into that vein. She was also smart about building 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:42.140 a community around her. She started doing collaborations. 00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:45.099 She jumped on the song Fantasy with Gayle and 00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:48.180 M. Bayhold. That's like the holy trinity of angry, 00:20:48.339 --> 00:20:51.160 heartbroken Gen Z pop right there. Yeah. A very 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.559 specific and powerful corner of the musical universe. 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:55.720 And she did Friends Don't with Alexander Stewart. 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:57.619 She was making it clear she was part of a scene. 00:20:57.779 --> 00:21:00.440 She was an artist with a growing catalog, not 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.990 just a viral moment. And that is the absolute 00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:05.390 crucial step in building a long -term career. 00:21:05.829 --> 00:21:07.890 You have to transition from being a singles artist 00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:11.049 to being an album artist. Which leads us to the 00:21:11.049 --> 00:21:13.589 big projects, the full bodies of work. On July 00:21:13.589 --> 00:21:17.450 14, 2023, we finally get her debut studio album, 00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:20.609 Mirror. Yep, 15 tracks. It had the big hits on 00:21:20.609 --> 00:21:23.950 it, of course, Fingers Crossed, Flowers, Narcissist. 00:21:24.069 --> 00:21:25.990 It was released under three name productions, 00:21:26.130 --> 00:21:28.609 but licensed out to Island and Republic for the 00:21:28.609 --> 00:21:31.319 global muscle. And how did it do commercially 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.519 on the charts? It did really well for a debut. 00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:37.619 It peaked at number four on the official UK albums 00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:40.099 chart, which is a huge accomplishment. It cracked 00:21:40.099 --> 00:21:42.039 the top 50 here in the US on the Billboard 200. 00:21:42.339 --> 00:21:45.079 It established her as a serious, viable album 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.720 artist. It proved her fans would show up for 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:50.380 a full package, not just a 30 -second TikTok 00:21:50.380 --> 00:21:54.289 clip. But that was 2023. We're in 2026 now, which 00:21:54.289 --> 00:21:57.029 means we have to talk about the follow -up. The 00:21:57.029 --> 00:21:59.470 sophomore album, The Art of Being a Mess. Which 00:21:59.470 --> 00:22:02.970 was released on June 27, 2025. So as of this 00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:04.890 conversation, it's been out for about eight months. 00:22:05.109 --> 00:22:07.589 I just, I love that title. The Art of Being a 00:22:07.589 --> 00:22:10.390 Mess. It feels so honest, so self -aware. It 00:22:10.390 --> 00:22:12.410 feels like a direct continuation of the themes 00:22:12.410 --> 00:22:15.490 in her singles. It absolutely is. But if we're 00:22:15.490 --> 00:22:17.349 being objective and just looking at the data. 00:22:18.009 --> 00:22:19.750 The album had a different kind of reception than 00:22:19.750 --> 00:22:22.250 Mirror did. How so? A little quieter? A bit, 00:22:22.269 --> 00:22:24.769 yeah. On the official charts, at least. It reached 00:22:24.769 --> 00:22:27.690 number 95 in Australia. In the UK, it didn't 00:22:27.690 --> 00:22:29.589 crack the main official albums chart top 100, 00:22:29.690 --> 00:22:32.490 though it did hit number 49 on the UK album sales 00:22:32.490 --> 00:22:34.009 chart, which is a slightly different metric. 00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:36.250 Okay, so if you're a record executive just staring 00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:38.049 at a spreadsheet, you might look at those numbers 00:22:38.049 --> 00:22:40.569 and think, uh -oh, the momentum is slowing down. 00:22:41.009 --> 00:22:44.009 Sophomore slump. You might think that. But this 00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:46.710 is where we have to analyze what success really 00:22:46.710 --> 00:22:49.829 means in the modern music industry. Chart peaks 00:22:49.829 --> 00:22:53.490 for albums. They just don't tell the whole story 00:22:53.490 --> 00:22:55.509 anymore. They're not the ultimate metric. Not 00:22:55.509 --> 00:22:57.589 like they were 20 years ago. You can have a lower 00:22:57.589 --> 00:22:59.970 charting album, but have a rabidly dedicated 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:02.430 fan base that streams consistently and, more 00:23:02.430 --> 00:23:05.829 importantly, buys concert tickets. And the singles 00:23:05.829 --> 00:23:09.809 from this era, like Pray from 2025 and If Karma 00:23:09.809 --> 00:23:12.470 Doesn't Get You, I Will, they kept the conversation 00:23:12.470 --> 00:23:15.539 going. If Karma Doesn't Get You, I Will is an 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:17.380 all -time great song title, by the way. It really 00:23:17.380 --> 00:23:19.920 is. It shows she hasn't lost that lyrical edge. 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.359 But you're right, the real proof of her status 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:25.200 in 2026 isn't a number on a billboard chart. 00:23:25.579 --> 00:23:27.720 It's the name on the marquee outside the venue. 00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:30.230 It's the sold -out sign. Which brings us full 00:23:30.230 --> 00:23:32.829 circle right back to the tour, the global stage. 00:23:33.390 --> 00:23:35.970 Because charts are just numbers on a screen. 00:23:36.250 --> 00:23:39.589 Touring is real human beings in a real room spending 00:23:39.589 --> 00:23:42.250 their real money to scream your lyrics back at 00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:45.509 you. And in that arena, she is absolutely winning. 00:23:45.710 --> 00:23:47.490 Let's just look at the growth trajectory there 00:23:47.490 --> 00:23:50.069 because it's pretty stunning. Her first big headlining 00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:53.529 run was the Mirror Tour back in 2023. Yep. First 00:23:53.529 --> 00:23:55.089 time seeing her name at the top of the ticket. 00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:58.289 She went all over North America, Europe, Oceania. 00:23:58.670 --> 00:24:01.390 But look at the venues she was playing. She played 00:24:01.390 --> 00:24:03.529 the Paradise Rock Club in Boston. Which is a 00:24:03.529 --> 00:24:06.190 legendary venue, a classic rock club. Legendary, 00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:08.390 but it's a club. It holds, what, maybe 900 people 00:24:08.390 --> 00:24:10.750 if you pack them in? Yeah. She played Irving 00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:14.190 Plaza in New York City, The Flex in Vienna. These 00:24:14.190 --> 00:24:17.390 are fantastic historic rooms, but they are stepping 00:24:17.390 --> 00:24:18.950 stones. They're the first. wrong on the ladder. 00:24:19.109 --> 00:24:22.250 Okay, so now fast forward to today. The art of 00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:24.210 being a mess world tour that's happening right 00:24:24.210 --> 00:24:27.710 now through 2025 and 2026. The scale -up is just. 00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:31.289 It's undeniable. She started in Europe in September 00:24:31.289 --> 00:24:34.670 of 25, playing bigger rooms in Madrid, Barcelona, 00:24:35.069 --> 00:24:38.170 Brussels. Then she flew down to Oceania in November. 00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:41.420 Big shows in Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland. And 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:44.180 now this current North American leg. It just 00:24:44.180 --> 00:24:46.819 started earlier this month on February 4th, 2026. 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:49.740 And look at where she chose to kick it off. The 00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:52.859 Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, Tennessee. The 00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:55.079 Mother Church of Country Music. You do not get 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:57.259 to play the Ryman by accident. That is hallowed 00:24:57.259 --> 00:24:59.740 ground. That is where Johnny Cash and Patsy Cline 00:24:59.740 --> 00:25:02.220 stood. That is a stage with a soul. Booking that 00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:04.710 venue. is a statement. It sends a message to 00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:06.490 the entire industry. It says, I am not just a 00:25:06.490 --> 00:25:09.769 TikTok star. I'm a serious musician. I'm a vocalist. 00:25:09.809 --> 00:25:11.930 I belong on this historic stage. And it's not 00:25:11.930 --> 00:25:13.950 just the Ryman. She's hitting other major iconic 00:25:13.950 --> 00:25:16.369 venues, the House of Blues chain, the Wiltron 00:25:16.369 --> 00:25:18.849 in Los Angeles, the Queen Elizabeth Theater up 00:25:18.849 --> 00:25:21.230 in Vancouver. And tonight, as we've said, February 00:25:21.230 --> 00:25:24.170 17th, the Fillmore in Silver Spring. These are 00:25:24.170 --> 00:25:27.269 significant, multi -thousand capacity theaters. 00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:30.240 The trajectory is just wild when you lay it all 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:32.500 out like that. Think about it. We started this 00:25:32.500 --> 00:25:34.559 whole deep dive talking about a six -year -old 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:37.240 girl performing in front of her elementary school. 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:41.059 Then a teenager singing to an iPad by a lake 00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:43.960 for a TV show she was about to be eliminated 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.940 from. And now, just a few years later, she is 00:25:46.940 --> 00:25:49.420 the headliner, commanding these revered stages 00:25:49.420 --> 00:25:52.059 like the Ryman and the Wiltern. It completely 00:25:52.059 --> 00:25:55.099 validates the entire journey. It proves that 00:25:55.099 --> 00:25:57.980 the idol paradox was real. She didn't need the 00:25:57.980 --> 00:26:00.480 confetti drop on national television. She didn't 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.859 need a panel of celebrity judges to tell her 00:26:02.859 --> 00:26:05.019 she was good enough. She just needed the songs 00:26:05.019 --> 00:26:07.220 and a direct line to the people who wanted to 00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:10.240 hear them. Exactly. The Internet allowed her 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.500 to build her own stage, and now she's taking 00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:14.900 that show to the most famous stages in the world. 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.920 So let's try to wrap all this up. What does it 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:19.059 all mean? What's the big takeaway here? Well, 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.039 if we just summarize the journey in one breath. 00:26:21.630 --> 00:26:24.009 Six -year -old Dreamer becomes a YouTube cover 00:26:24.009 --> 00:26:26.750 artist, becomes an American Idol reject, becomes 00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:29.630 a TikTok sensation, and finally becomes a global 00:26:29.630 --> 00:26:32.569 touring force with two studio albums under her 00:26:32.569 --> 00:26:36.289 belt. The so what. For me, the reason this story 00:26:36.289 --> 00:26:39.529 matters is the theme of resilience. Oh, 100%. 00:26:39.529 --> 00:26:43.650 It's about a fundamental refusal to take no for 00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:47.279 an answer from the traditional systems. The Juneau 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.339 committee said, no, Bryan Adams wins. American 00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:52.519 Idol voters said, no, you're not in our top 10. 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:54.819 And instead of quitting, she just found a different 00:26:54.819 --> 00:26:58.160 route. She did. She let the audience be the ultimate 00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:01.119 judge. She bypassed the industry gatekeepers 00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:03.119 and went straight to the people on their phones. 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:05.480 And the people voted. They voted with their thumbs, 00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:08.019 with their streams. And now, most importantly, 00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.839 they are voting with their wallets for concert 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.500 tickets. And that leads me to the final thought 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:15.460 I want to leave our listeners with. I want to 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:17.839 circle back one last time to that album title, 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.019 The Art of Being a Mess. It really is a provocative 00:27:21.019 --> 00:27:23.319 idea, isn't it? It is, because think about the 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.359 era we live in. Social media, especially Instagram, 00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:28.980 is this highly curated, perfect looking highlight 00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:32.960 reel of everyone's lives. The pressure is immense 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.160 to look like you have it all figured out, like 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.099 you're winning all the time. The illusion of 00:27:37.099 --> 00:27:40.160 perfection? Exactly. But Lauren Spencer Smith's 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.240 entire career, her entire success, seems to suggest 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:45.420 the complete opposite is true. What do you mean? 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:48.460 I mean, she is succeeding because she is admitting 00:27:48.460 --> 00:27:51.380 she's a mess. Her art is about being a mess. 00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:53.740 She is winning because she's willing to write 00:27:53.740 --> 00:27:56.500 a song, admitting she gets anxious when someone 00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:58.660 buys her flowers. She's willing to admit she's 00:27:58.660 --> 00:28:01.380 heartbroken over a friend. She's willing to say 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:04.420 out loud, I don't have all the answers and things 00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:07.109 are kind of messy right now. So in a world that's 00:28:07.109 --> 00:28:09.730 selling fake perfection, radical vulnerability 00:28:09.730 --> 00:28:12.109 is the killer app. It's the most valuable currency. 00:28:12.430 --> 00:28:14.630 I really think it is. I don't think people want 00:28:14.630 --> 00:28:17.029 perfect, untouchable idols anymore. They want 00:28:17.029 --> 00:28:19.289 mirrors. They want to see themselves, their own 00:28:19.289 --> 00:28:22.029 messy feelings and complicated lives reflected 00:28:22.029 --> 00:28:24.869 back at them in the art they consume. And Lauren 00:28:24.869 --> 00:28:27.890 Spencer Smith is a very, very clear mirror for 00:28:27.890 --> 00:28:30.730 millions of people. She makes their own mess 00:28:30.730 --> 00:28:33.809 feel not just acceptable, but like a work of 00:28:33.809 --> 00:28:36.119 art. That is a beautiful thought to end on. So 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:37.740 if you are lucky enough to be in Silver Spring 00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:40.339 tonight, go enjoy the show at the Fillmore. Scream 00:28:40.339 --> 00:28:42.559 your heart out for all of us. And if you're not, 00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:46.259 check the tour dates. She might be coming to 00:28:46.259 --> 00:28:48.460 a city near you. I think she's got Philadelphia, 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.220 New York and Boston coming up just in the next 00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:53.079 week alone. Definitely don't miss it. Thanks 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.099 for taking the time to unpack all of this with 00:28:55.099 --> 00:28:57.420 us. Always a pleasure. We'll see you on the next 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:01.109 A Deep Dive. Welcome to the debate. Today is 00:29:01.109 --> 00:29:07.230 Tuesday, February 17th, 2026. It is just a miserable 00:29:07.230 --> 00:29:10.230 rainy night out here on the East Coast. But if 00:29:10.230 --> 00:29:12.289 you look at the sidewalk outside the Fillmore 00:29:12.289 --> 00:29:15.450 in Silver Spring, Maryland, the weather is completely 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:18.210 irrelevant. I mean, the line has been wrapping 00:29:18.210 --> 00:29:20.569 around the block since this afternoon. They're 00:29:20.569 --> 00:29:22.970 all huddled under umbrellas, singing songs in 00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:25.829 the rain, waiting for Lauren Spencer Smith. She 00:29:25.829 --> 00:29:28.670 is deep into the North American leg of her The 00:29:28.670 --> 00:29:31.869 Art of Being a Mess world tour, and the energy 00:29:31.869 --> 00:29:35.529 out there is, well, it's electric. And that wet, 00:29:35.630 --> 00:29:38.670 enthusiastic line is exactly why we're here. 00:29:38.890 --> 00:29:41.670 Because if you were to look solely at, you know, 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:44.369 the music industry charts for the last 12 months, 00:29:44.609 --> 00:29:47.230 you'd assume that line just shouldn't exist. 00:29:47.789 --> 00:29:50.049 We're looking at one of the most fascinating 00:29:50.049 --> 00:29:53.890 paradoxes in modern music. It really is a paradox. 00:29:54.490 --> 00:29:56.750 And it brings us to the core question we're tackling 00:29:56.750 --> 00:30:00.130 today. Is Lauren Spencer -Smith the prototype 00:30:00.130 --> 00:30:03.450 for a sustainable, modern pop career built on 00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:05.789 authentic songwriting and a direct -to -fanbase 00:30:05.789 --> 00:30:09.470 connection? Or, as the data might suggest, does 00:30:09.470 --> 00:30:12.150 her trajectory from her massive 2022 breakout 00:30:12.150 --> 00:30:15.490 to right now represent a viral moment that's 00:30:15.490 --> 00:30:17.849 facing a severe case of diminishing returns? 00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:20.769 I take the position that Lauren has successfully 00:30:20.769 --> 00:30:24.079 executed the hardest pivot in the industry. going 00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:26.759 from a viral TikTok sensation to a legitimate, 00:30:26.900 --> 00:30:29.819 hard -ticket touring artist with a career that's 00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:31.799 going to outlast the platform that launched her. 00:30:31.940 --> 00:30:35.140 And I look at the exact same timeline and I just 00:30:35.140 --> 00:30:38.539 see a warning sign. I believe the data, specifically 00:30:38.539 --> 00:30:41.599 the stark commercial drop -off between her debut 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:45.339 era and the 2025 sophomore album, indicates a 00:30:45.339 --> 00:30:47.740 failure to scale. I think we are watching an 00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:50.220 artist struggle to maintain relevance once the 00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:53.220 algorithm finds its new shiny object. To me, 00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:55.680 the numbers tell a story of a shrinking footprint, 00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:58.839 not a deepening foundation. I think you're misinterpreting 00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.980 what footprint even means in 2026. But let's 00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:03.799 start at the beginning. Because to understand 00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:06.240 where she is tonight at the Fillmore, you have 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.319 to look at the hustle that predated all the fame. 00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:10.359 There's this misconception that Lauren Spencer 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:13.680 Smith was just born on TikTok. That is the narrative, 00:31:13.819 --> 00:31:16.519 yeah. The girl who sang in her dad's truck. Right. 00:31:16.700 --> 00:31:19.460 But that completely ignores a decade of groundwork. 00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:22.039 This is a woman who was grinding on YouTube as 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:25.039 far back as 2014. She wasn't just singing in 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.900 her bedroom. She was hustling for visibility. 00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.640 She managed to, I mean, she actually got on stage 00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:32.420 with Keith Urban when she was still a kid. She 00:31:32.420 --> 00:31:36.200 released Unplugged Volume 1 in 2019. That album 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.660 earned her a Juno Award nomination for Adult 00:31:38.660 --> 00:31:41.069 Contemporary Album of the Year. A nomination 00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:43.930 she lost to Bryan Adams. Let's keep the context 00:31:43.930 --> 00:31:46.089 clear. It was a pretty weak field that year. 00:31:46.349 --> 00:31:49.309 Losing to Bryan Adams, a global legacy artist, 00:31:49.410 --> 00:31:51.910 when you are a teenager without a label, that 00:31:51.910 --> 00:31:54.750 is not a failure. That is proof of concept. It 00:31:54.750 --> 00:31:57.769 validates the talent. My point is, by the time 00:31:57.769 --> 00:32:00.210 she stood on the stage at the Ryman Auditorium 00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:03.269 earlier this month, that was February 4th, she 00:32:03.269 --> 00:32:05.769 had built a vocal engine that wasn't reliant 00:32:05.769 --> 00:32:08.839 on studio magic. She is selling out venues like 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.019 The Fillmore Tonight and the Brooklyn Paramount 00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:13.599 on the 20th because her songwriting resonates 00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:16.579 on a human level. She has what we call a sticky 00:32:16.579 --> 00:32:18.880 fan base. They aren't there because an algorithm 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.619 told them to be. They're there because she articulated 00:32:21.619 --> 00:32:23.599 their own heartbreaks better than they could. 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.859 Sticky is a generous term for what might just 00:32:27.859 --> 00:32:31.519 be a niche. I don't deny the hustle, but let's 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.640 look at the trajectory where it counts in the 00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:37.299 macroeconomic of music, mass consumption. Her 00:32:37.299 --> 00:32:40.460 rise was meteoric. Absolutely. Fingers crossed 00:32:40.460 --> 00:32:44.200 was a global smash in 2022. Top 10 in the UK, 00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.839 Australia, New Zealand. It hit number 19 in the 00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:50.079 US. It went multi -platinum. That is a massive 00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:53.220 peak. But the plateau that followed is undeniable. 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.160 And frankly, it's steep. Every artist plateaus 00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:59.140 after a breakout amp. That is just the nature 00:32:59.140 --> 00:33:02.859 of the beast. But not like this. Her debut album, 00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.559 Mirror, from 2023. It charted at 45 in the U 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.480 .S. and 11 in the U .K. Respectable, if a bit 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.619 underwhelming for someone with that much hype. 00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:15.359 But then you fast forward to June 2025, just 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.000 last year, with the release of The Art of Being 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:21.240 a Mess. The drop -off isn't just a plateau, it 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.700 is a cliff. You're focusing on the Billboard 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:27.160 200 way too much. The Billboard 200 is the record 00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:30.000 of record. The Art of Being a Mess did not enter 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:33.180 the U .S. Billboard 200 at all. It didn't enter 00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:35.279 the main UK albums chart, it peaked at number 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:38.519 49 on the sales chart. In Australia, where she 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:41.079 was previously a top 10 artist, it scraped in 00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:44.420 at 95. When you compare her to Olivia Rodrigo, 00:33:44.460 --> 00:33:46.259 a comparison that was constantly made during 00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:48.740 her rise, you see one artist who bridged that 00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:51.680 gap to superstar and one who seems to be struggling 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.400 to keep even the casual listener engaged. That 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:56.640 looks like a career reliant on viral volatility, 00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:59.730 not broad industry support. I think that comparison 00:33:59.730 --> 00:34:02.390 is lazy, and frankly, it misses the mechanics 00:34:02.390 --> 00:34:04.089 of how she broke through in the first place. 00:34:04.309 --> 00:34:06.849 You mentioned Olivia Rodrigo, but we need to 00:34:06.849 --> 00:34:09.269 address the elephant in the room regarding Lauren's 00:34:09.269 --> 00:34:13.690 specific path. American Idol. Right. Season 18. 00:34:14.030 --> 00:34:17.429 In 2020. This is a crucial piece of the puzzle. 00:34:17.849 --> 00:34:20.989 She was eliminated in the top 20. And historically, 00:34:21.389 --> 00:34:24.590 Idol is a launchpad. But usually if you get cut 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:27.719 that early, that's your ceiling. You become the 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.860 girl who almost made it. It usually signals a 00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:33.639 limitation in mainstream appeal. The audience 00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:36.480 had a chance to vote, and, well, they didn't 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.400 vote for her. I would argue her inability to 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:42.860 win over that broad television demographic foreshadowed 00:34:42.860 --> 00:34:44.960 the ceiling we are seeing now with her second 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.840 album sales. I just think that's a fundamental 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:50.139 misunderstanding of how the modern music business 00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:53.340 works. Losing American Idol was the single best 00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:55.340 thing that could have happened to her. Think 00:34:55.340 --> 00:34:57.579 about the constraints of those reality TV contracts. 00:34:57.860 --> 00:35:00.360 They are draconian. They lock you into these 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.719 360 deals where the show owns everything for 00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:05.880 years. By being eliminated, she dodged that bullet. 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.000 She dodged the support system, too. She dodged 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:11.460 the shackles. She went back to Port Alberni, 00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.980 back to her father's house, and she took control 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:17.239 of her own distribution. She pivoted to TikTok, 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:20.099 which is a direct -to -consumer channel. When 00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:22.510 she teased Fingers Crossed, she got... 30 million 00:35:22.510 --> 00:35:25.150 views on the demo before it was even released. 00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:27.929 She proved she understood her audience connection 00:35:27.929 --> 00:35:30.369 better than the traditional gatekeepers at Idol 00:35:30.369 --> 00:35:33.010 ever could. She didn't need the TV vote. She 00:35:33.010 --> 00:35:36.389 needed the data. But does that authenticity scale? 00:35:36.550 --> 00:35:39.110 That's my issue. You mentioned the 30 million 00:35:39.110 --> 00:35:41.929 views. That is the definition of a viral moment. 00:35:42.090 --> 00:35:44.739 But viral moments are fleeting. We see this all 00:35:44.739 --> 00:35:47.280 the time. The micro -trend artists who blow up 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:49.820 for three months and then just vanish. If we 00:35:49.820 --> 00:35:51.679 look at the music itself, we have to ask about 00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.059 the songwriting quality versus, you know, formulaic 00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:56.599 themes. You champion her songwriting, but is 00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:59.159 she expanding her palette? Or is she just rewriting 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.199 Fingers Crossed over and over again? She is absolutely 00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:06.019 expanding. Look at Flowers from 2022. On the 00:36:06.019 --> 00:36:08.719 surface, people hear breakup song. But if you 00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.619 listen to the lyrics and read her interview, 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:12.820 she explained that the title was a trauma response. 00:36:13.139 --> 00:36:15.320 It wasn't about a bad guy. It was about moving 00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:17.559 into a healthy relationship where a boyfriend 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:20.780 bought her flowers just because, and her reaction 00:36:20.780 --> 00:36:23.199 was panic because she was so used to getting 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:26.139 flowers as an apology. That is a sophisticated 00:36:26.139 --> 00:36:29.400 take on relationships. It's high emotional intelligence. 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.460 That is why she has golden platinum certifications. 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.320 She isn't just writing, he left me. She's writing, 00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.500 this is how the damage lingers. I admit that's 00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:41.079 a clever angle, but the execution feels kind 00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:44.780 of trapped in that sad girl pop trend that saturated 00:36:44.780 --> 00:36:48.019 the market in the early 2020s. Fingers crossed, 00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:51.340 flowers, narcissist. The themes are repetitive, 00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.780 and the market seems to agree. You mentioned 00:36:53.780 --> 00:36:55.880 the certifications, but let's look at the trend 00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:58.010 line. because that's the only thing that matters. 00:36:58.150 --> 00:37:01.369 Fingers crossed is 3X platinum in Canada, platinum 00:37:01.369 --> 00:37:03.849 in the US, flowers is platinum. But then you 00:37:03.849 --> 00:37:06.570 get to Narcissist, which is gold in Canada, but 00:37:06.570 --> 00:37:09.989 only silver in the UK. Then look at that part. 00:37:10.170 --> 00:37:13.170 It hit gold in Canada and Australia, sure. But 00:37:13.170 --> 00:37:16.570 globally, it peaked at 86 in Ireland and didn't 00:37:16.570 --> 00:37:19.230 touch the US hot 100. The diminishing returns 00:37:19.230 --> 00:37:22.130 suggest that trauma response theme has a shelf 00:37:22.130 --> 00:37:26.010 life. You're conflating mainstream radio hits, 00:37:26.380 --> 00:37:29.639 with fan -based favorites. That part still resonated 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.519 deeply with her core demographic. You don't need 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.300 to be on the Hot 100 to be successful in 2026. 00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:37.860 But a core demographic doesn't keep the lights 00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:41.000 on forever if it keeps shrinking. Let's really 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.619 drill down on the art of being a mess. This is 00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:46.039 the core of the debate for me. The album dropped 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:49.440 in June 2025. It was a ghost town on the charts. 00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.039 If you are an artist who is supposedly sustainable, 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.760 your sophomore album should at least chart in 00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.300 your primary markets. It missed the U .S. Billboard 00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:00.539 200 entirely. How do you spend that? Because 00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:03.900 charts are a lagging indicator of cultural relevance, 00:38:04.179 --> 00:38:07.119 especially for a touring act. The charts measure 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.840 passive listening. They measure how many times 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.199 a song was put on a playlist by an editor at 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.460 Spotify. They do not measure intent. The real 00:38:15.460 --> 00:38:17.800 metric, the only metric that matters for longevity, 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.139 is the ticket. Can you move bodies into a room? 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:23.360 Let's look at the itinerary for this world tour. 00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:26.590 I'm listening. She started this tour in Europe 00:38:26.590 --> 00:38:31.070 in September 2025. She played the Sala La Riviera 00:38:31.070 --> 00:38:34.949 in Madrid, the Columbia Hall in Berlin, the Eventum 00:38:34.949 --> 00:38:38.630 Apollo in London. These are legendary large capacity 00:38:38.630 --> 00:38:42.829 venues. The Eventum Apollo holds over 5 ,000 00:38:42.829 --> 00:38:47.510 people. And now in 2026, she is doing a massive 00:38:47.510 --> 00:38:50.510 North American run. The Ryman Auditorium in Nashville 00:38:50.510 --> 00:38:53.250 is hallowed ground. You don't book the Ryman 00:38:53.250 --> 00:38:55.469 if you're a flop. You don't book the Brooklyn 00:38:55.469 --> 00:38:57.630 Paramount or the House of Blues in Boston if 00:38:57.630 --> 00:39:00.530 nobody cares. The fact that she is playing these 00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:03.409 rooms, despite the lack of radio play, proves 00:39:03.409 --> 00:39:06.969 my point. She has exited the viral rat race and 00:39:06.969 --> 00:39:10.190 entered the touring economy. That's a compelling 00:39:10.190 --> 00:39:12.409 argument, but have you considered the economics 00:39:12.409 --> 00:39:15.090 of those tours? I mean, yes, she is playing these 00:39:15.090 --> 00:39:17.769 venues now, based largely on the goodwill of 00:39:17.769 --> 00:39:20.780 the debut and those viral hits. But touring cycles 00:39:20.780 --> 00:39:24.340 lag, too. These bookings are often based on previous 00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:27.119 metrics. If the sophomore album didn't convert 00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:29.880 casual listeners into diehards, the next tour 00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:32.320 is where we'll see the shrinkage. The singles 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:35.380 from the 2025 album tracks like Prey, they barely 00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:37.380 made a dent on the New Zealand Hot Singles chart, 00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:40.000 let alone anywhere wager. If the new music isn't 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.519 bringing in new fans, the tour is just a nostalgia 00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:44.780 act for a viral moment that happened four years 00:39:44.780 --> 00:39:47.840 ago. I see the data, but I interpret songs like 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.019 Prey and Small differently. Those are intimate 00:39:51.019 --> 00:39:53.699 records. They are service pieces for the fans 00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:55.960 who have been there since the beginning. Lauren 00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:57.980 has successfully converted that viral traffic 00:39:57.980 --> 00:40:00.980 into a cult following. Think about the trajectory 00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:04.440 of artists like, say, Carly Rae Jepsen. Oh, come 00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:08.599 on. No, hear me out. Carly Rae Jepsen had Call 00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:11.219 Me Maybe, one of the biggest viral hits ever. 00:40:11.539 --> 00:40:13.800 The charts cooled off, she stopped hitting number 00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.360 one, but she became a critical darling and a 00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:19.130 massive touring force. She plays sold -out shows 00:40:19.130 --> 00:40:21.829 to a fervent fan base that screams every word. 00:40:22.190 --> 00:40:25.070 Lauren is following that path. She is industry 00:40:25.070 --> 00:40:28.050 respect. Remember, Steve Harvey spotted her talent 00:40:28.050 --> 00:40:31.349 back in 2019, way before TikTok. That foundational 00:40:31.349 --> 00:40:34.449 talent exists independent of trends. She's building 00:40:34.449 --> 00:40:36.889 a middle -class pop star career, which is actually 00:40:36.889 --> 00:40:39.070 healthier than being a flash -in -the -pan superstar 00:40:39.070 --> 00:40:42.570 who burns out. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy 00:40:42.570 --> 00:40:45.480 the Carly Rae Jepsen comparison yet. Jepsen had 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:47.880 a critical renaissance. Emotion is considered 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:50.619 a modern classic. Lauren hasn't quite achieved 00:40:50.619 --> 00:40:52.820 that critical acclaim. And I worry about the 00:40:52.820 --> 00:40:55.539 cult argument. A cult following is great, but 00:40:55.539 --> 00:40:57.960 it usually requires a steady stream of new converts. 00:40:58.179 --> 00:41:00.579 The drop in streaming numbers, going from multi 00:41:00.579 --> 00:41:02.800 -platinum to barely charting, shows the funnel 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:05.179 is broken. The casual audience, the millions 00:41:05.179 --> 00:41:07.300 who streamed Fingers Crossed because it was on 00:41:07.300 --> 00:41:09.619 their For You page, have moved on. They are not 00:41:09.619 --> 00:41:11.519 buying tickets to the Filmworm. I believe there 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.940 is enough of a core fan base. Look at the sheer 00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:18.539 volume of dates. She played nearly 30 dates in 00:41:18.539 --> 00:41:21.780 Europe last fall. She's playing nearly 30 dates 00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:24.539 in North America right now. That is a working 00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:28.000 musician. That is a career. She isn't chasing 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.940 a number one hit. She's chasing a 30 -year career 00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:33.880 on the road. And frankly, the casual audience 00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:36.599 is worthless in the modern economy. They stream 00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:39.000 us on once, generating a fraction of a cent. 00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:42.300 A fan at the Fillmore buys a $50 ticket and a 00:41:42.300 --> 00:41:45.559 $40 t -shirt. One fan at a venue is worth 30 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:48.880 ,000 casual streamers. Lauren has optimized for 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:52.059 the high -value fan. Incredibly expensive. If 00:41:52.059 --> 00:41:54.179 you aren't selling out the room, you are losing 00:41:54.179 --> 00:41:57.400 money. With the album not charting, her leverage 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.579 with promoters drops. She is 22 years old now. 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:03.360 By the time she's 25, if she hasn't had another 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:05.719 radio hit, will she be playing the film more 00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:07.780 or will she be playing the club down the street? 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:12.360 She's only 22. That's the key. To be 22 and headlining 00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:14.829 the Wiltern? Most artists would kill for that. 00:42:15.170 --> 00:42:17.969 She has time to reinvent. And unlike the idol 00:42:17.969 --> 00:42:20.550 winners who are tied to a specific sound, she 00:42:20.550 --> 00:42:23.769 owns her lane. She can pivot. Let's try to wrap 00:42:23.769 --> 00:42:25.789 this up because I think we're looking at two 00:42:25.789 --> 00:42:28.590 different definitions of success. To summarize 00:42:28.590 --> 00:42:32.010 my position, while Lauren Spencer Smith is undeniably 00:42:32.010 --> 00:42:34.429 talented, the sharp decline in chart performance 00:42:34.429 --> 00:42:37.230 between Mirror and The Art of Being a Mess serves 00:42:37.230 --> 00:42:40.110 as a cautionary tale. It just illustrates the 00:42:40.110 --> 00:42:42.599 shelf life of TikTok fame. When the algorithm 00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:45.159 changes, if you haven't cemented yourself in 00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:47.420 the broader pop culture consciousness, the floor 00:42:47.420 --> 00:42:50.539 can drop out. I validate her talent, but I question 00:42:50.539 --> 00:42:52.639 the scalability of her career moving forward. 00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.440 And I will maintain that she has successfully 00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:59.280 exited that viral rat race to become a career 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.099 touring artist, which is a much healthier place 00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:04.900 to be. The fact that she is performing to thousands 00:43:04.900 --> 00:43:07.400 in Silver Spring tonight and will be in Philadelphia 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.099 tomorrow, that matters more than a billboard 00:43:10.099 --> 00:43:13.300 ranking. She has used the viral moment to build 00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:16.199 a real -world engine. The charts might say she 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:18.460 is cooling off, but the box office says she's 00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:21.199 heating up. It's certainly a pivot from pop star 00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.900 to touring act. Whether that's a voluntary pivot 00:43:23.900 --> 00:43:26.460 or one forced by the market, well, that remains 00:43:26.460 --> 00:43:28.920 to be seen. A pivot that allows for longevity. 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.000 And I think we can both agree that Lauren Spencer 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.219 -Smith represents a shift in how success is measured 00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:39.170 in the mid -2020s. Is it top 40 dominance or 00:43:39.170 --> 00:43:41.650 is it the ability to sustain a global tour without 00:43:41.650 --> 00:43:44.329 radio support? It's a fascinating disconnect. 00:43:44.469 --> 00:43:47.849 We have an artist who is statistically invisible 00:43:47.849 --> 00:43:51.329 on the album charts, but physically present in 00:43:51.329 --> 00:43:54.150 major venues worldwide. It challenges that old 00:43:54.150 --> 00:43:57.849 adage that content is king. Maybe connection 00:43:57.849 --> 00:44:01.900 is king? Exactly. And we'll leave it to the listener 00:44:01.900 --> 00:44:04.000 to decide if the lack of chart -topping hits 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.059 in 2025 matters when the venues are still full 00:44:07.059 --> 00:44:10.460 in 2026. Thank you for joining us on The Debate. 00:44:10.539 --> 00:44:11.460 See you next time.