WEBVTT

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Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Today we are looking

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at a career that is, honestly, it's exhausting

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just to read about. Let alone live through. Yeah.

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We are talking about Monty Kip's up. If you walked

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into a crowded arena, I mean, pretty much anywhere

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on the planet right now, and yelled Monty, you'd

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probably get crickets. Right. But if you yelled

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Billy Gunn. Oh, you might just start a riot.

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Or a massive sing -along. Or a sing -along. Usually

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both. Usually both, exactly. So the mission for

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today is pretty specific. We've got this... massive

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stack of sources here, biographical records,

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match histories from WWF, TNA, New Japan, and

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now AEW. But we aren't just here to recite a

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resume. We want to figure out how one guy stays

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relevant from like the super cartoonish era of

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the early 90s all the way to the high speed style

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of the 2020s. It's a masterclass in adaptability.

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I mean, you look at the data, you look at the

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patterns. Most wrestlers, their shelf life at

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the top is maybe five, six years if they're lucky.

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If they're lucky. Billy Gunn has just survived

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by constantly, constantly evolving. And the numbers

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are just, they're staggering. In WWE alone, he

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racked up 14 championships. 14. 11 of those were

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tag team titles. Which is a key data point we're

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definitely coming back to. He is, you could argue,

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the greatest tag team specialist in history.

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And he's still active in his 60s. He is winning

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titles in stadiums while being eligible for a

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senior discount. So, okay, where does a guy like

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this even... come from well that's what's so

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interesting because he wasn't exactly born in

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a wrestling ring no if you want to understand

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his physical durability you have to go back even

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further before he was billy gunn monty sop was

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a professional bull rider a bull rider okay that

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explains actually wait does that explain it that

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sounds like a terrible way to preserve your body

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you'd think so right yeah but think about the

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biomechanics of it he did it professionally in

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his early 20s To stay on a bucking bull, you

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need incredible grip strength, insane core stability,

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and balance. You're just holding on for dear

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life. Exactly. But it's about moving your center

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of gravity. We're talking about a guy who's 6

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'3", 260 pounds. Guys that big usually move like

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trucks. They're stiff. But because of that rodeo

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background, he learned to move with the agility

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of a much smaller man. So he's got the size of

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a heavyweight, but the balance of a lightweight.

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Precisely. That's the foundation. He trains,

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spends about eight years on the independent circuit,

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and then in 1993, he gets the call. He signs

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with the World Wrestling Federation. And this

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is where we get the first big iteration, the

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smoking guns. A classic early 90s gimmick. He's

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teamed up with his on -screen brother, Bart Gunn.

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And they really, I mean, they really leaned into

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the whole cowboy thing. The sources we looked

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at talk about these vignettes of them riding

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horses. Oh, yeah, and they would literally fire

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blanks from pistols in the arena. During their

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entrance. Can you imagine that today? No way.

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But in 1993, it worked. They were the ultimate

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babyfaces, the good guys. And they were successful.

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They won the tag team championship three times.

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But in wrestling, being the smiling good guy

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only lasts for so long, the crowd eventually

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gets bored. And the relationships fracture. This

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brings us to the first big pivot. They had a

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manager, Sunny. Who was basically the it girl

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of wrestling at the time. Absolutely. The storyline

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was that she abandoned them because they lost

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the titles. She only wanted to manage winners.

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Brutal. It was. When they lost the belts, Billy

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gets frustrated. And in the storyline, he just

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walks out on Bart. The team implodes. So the

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cowboy era ends. And usually when a tag team

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breaks up. There's that unwritten rule. One guy

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becomes a star, the other one doesn't. Shawn

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Michaels and Marty Jannetty effect, yeah. Right.

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And for a minute there, it really looked like

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Billy was going to be the one who faded away.

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His first attempt at a solo character was rough.

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We have to talk about Rockabilly. Oh, please.

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Let's talk about Rockabilly. It's 1997. The whole

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culture is shifting. We're heading into the Attitude

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Era. Everything is getting edgier. And Billy

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comes out as the protege of the Honky Tonk Man,

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who's basically an Elvis impersonator from the

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80s. It was a total mismatch. He was doing this

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retro gimmick while everyone else was trying

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to be cool and modern. The crowd was just dead

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silent for his matches. So they had to do something

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drastic or, you know, get fired. Precisely. On

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this smaller late night show, Shotgun Saturday

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Night, Jesse James, who we all know is Road Dogg,

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he just stops the match. He broke the fourth

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wall. Totally. He says, this isn't working. Nobody

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cares. Let's team up. And Billy Gunn agrees and

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just smashes a guitar over Honky Tonk Man's head

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to seal the deal. And just like that, the New

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Age outlaws were born. Road Dogg, Jesse James,

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and badass Billy Gunn. This was the turning point.

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I remember this so vividly. They went from like...

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Complete mid -card afterthoughts to the coolest

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thing on the show almost overnight. It was instantaneous

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chemistry. Road Dogg was the mouthpiece. This

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incredible talent on the microphone. Billy Gunn

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was the athlete. The size, the look, the dropkick.

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They covered each other's weaknesses perfectly.

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And then they joined D -Generation X the night

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after WrestleMania 14. Which is such crucial

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context. They had just won the tag titles in

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a dumpster match. A literal dumpster match. A

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literal dumpster match. But joining DX put them

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with Triple H, Chyna, and X -Pac. They were now

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part of the most influential group of the late

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90s. They were the cool rebels. And Billy was

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sort of the enforcer of that group, right? He

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was. While Road Dogg was doing the catchy intros,

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Billy was the one who looked like he could actually

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beat people up. But he did have some solo success

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during this time. He won the King of the Ring.

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1999, huge year for him. The King of the Ring

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tournament is a big deal. It's often used to

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crown the next big thing. Right. He defeated

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Ken Shamrock, Kane, and X -Pac to win it. And

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this was the absolute peak of the Mr. Ass gimmick.

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I still can't believe he got so popular with

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a name like Mr. Ass. It was the Attitude Era.

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It was ridiculous. It was juvenile. But man,

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he committed to it. He had a feud with The Rock

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that ended in a Kiss My Ass match. And The Rock

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is just on another planet on the microphone.

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He is. And to be honest... The Rock verbally

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destroyed him in that feud. It sort of exposed

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that while Billy was a great athlete, he wasn't

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a main event level talker. And then injuries

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hit. The rotator cuff. Just as he's getting this

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massive solo push, his shoulder gives out. He's

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gone for months. And that seems to be a theme

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here. Every time he gets close to the very top

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by himself, something happens. It solves the

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momentum. And in wrestling, if you leave for

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six months, the whole world changes. By the time

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he came back, the attitude era was winding down.

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Which leads us to maybe the most controversial

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and honestly surprising reinvention of his whole

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career. We're talking about the wedding. We are

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absolutely talking about the wedding. After a

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short, forgettable run as The One, Billy Gunn,

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he teams up with Chuck Palumbo in 2001. Billy

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and Chuck. Now, you have to think about the cultural

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landscape in 2001, 2002. It was very different.

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Very. At first, they were just two guys with

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matching headbands. But then they added a stylist,

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Rico. And they started acting more and more affectionate.

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The storyline was heavily, heavily implying a

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homosexual relationship. Which was played for

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laughs, mostly. Oh, it was absolutely played

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for comedy and shock value. But here's the thing.

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It worked. They won the tag titles twice. The

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crowd was invested. And the climax was pure publicity

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stunt. September 2002 on SmackDown. Chuck proposes

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to Billie. In the ring. In the ring. They schedule

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a wedding ceremony. And the media coverage was

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huge. Mainstream outlets were covering it because

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they thought WWE was actually going to do this

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on live TV. But it was a swerve. Of course it

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was a swerve. Right before they say, I do, they

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call it off. They say it was all a stunt. They

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were just friends. And then the preacher takes

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off a mask. And it's Eric Bischoff, the general

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manager of the other show. He calls in a team

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called Three Minute Warning to beat them up.

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It was a classic shock value ending. But what

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really stands out to you about that era for him?

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It's the lack of ego. A lot of tough guy wrestlers,

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especially back then, would have refused to play

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a character that, you know, questioned their

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masculinity like that. I know, quite. Billy Gunn

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just didn't care. If it got him on TV, if it

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got a reaction from the crowd, he did it. But

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again, the physical toll. Another shoulder injury,

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the team disbands. And by November 2004, after

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more than a decade, he's released from WWE. So

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now he's out of the big machine. He's in his

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40s. His body is beaten up. This is usually where

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guys just fade away. But he went on the attack.

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He was very vocal. In 2005, he did this interview

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just blasting WWE and specifically Triple H.

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Said he was holding people down. And that animosity,

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he carried it right over to his next stop. Total

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nonstop action wrestling. TNA. Yeah, he shows

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up there in 2005. He can't use the name Billy

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Gunn. It's a WWE trademark. So he's the outlaw.

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Then Kip James. And he reunites with Road Dogg

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to form the Voodoo Kin Mafia. Which, if you look

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at the initials, VKM. Vincent Kennedy McMahon.

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Not exactly subtle. Not at all. They declared

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war on WWE. They were calling out Triple H and

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Shawn Michaels on TV. It was a chaotic time.

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It feels a little desperate looking back. It

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was, but it kept them in the conversation. And

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when that anti -WWE thing ran out of steam, what

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does he do? He pivots. Yeah. Again. He becomes

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Cute Tip. Right. In 2008, he's an image consultant

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for a female stable called the Beautiful People.

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So now you have this 6 '3 giant wearing velvet

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and managing these mean girls. It's another example

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of him just finding a role, no matter how weird,

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to stay in the mix. Exactly. He eventually leaves

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TNA, does the indie circuit, and then, surprisingly,

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the hatchet gets buried. He's back in WWE in

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2012. As a trainer for NXT. And he reunites with

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the New Age Outlaws. They even had one last run

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with the WWE Tag Team Championships in 2014.

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A nice little nostalgia run, but it ended on

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a really sour note. The second firing. 2015,

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he was released again. He failed a test for performance

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-enhancing drugs, specifically elevated testosterone,

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at a powerlifting event. And WWE has their wellness

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policy. They do. So he's suspended from powerlifting,

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and WWE lets him go. Now picture this. It's 2015.

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He's 52. He's been fired for a drug violation.

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That is usually the nail in the coffin. You would

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think. Great career. Time to retire. You would

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think. But this is where the renaissance begins.

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And it starts in such an unexpected place. Japan.

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New Japan Pro Wrestling. Now for anyone who doesn't

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follow in JTW, this is a promotion known for

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strong style. It's hard hitting. It's serious.

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It is not usually the place for American comedy

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acts. But in 2016, there he is. He shows up,

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and get this, in 2017, he challenges Hiroshi

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Tanahashi for the IWGP Intercontinental Championship.

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That's wild. Tanahashi is like the Michael Jordan

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of Japanese wrestling. Exactly. Just being in

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the ring with him is a badge of honor. It showed

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the world Billy Gunn could still go. He wasn't

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just a gimmick, he was still a serious athlete.

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And that credibility, that set the stage for

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the final act. Or maybe the fourth act, I've

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lost count. When he signs with All Elite Wrestling

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in 2019. AEW. Initially, he was hired as a coach.

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But you can't keep a bull rider out of the ring.

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Nope. He starts wrestling with his actual sons,

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Austin and Colton, the Gun Club. A wholesome

00:11:23.769 --> 00:11:26.710
family act at first. Until the betrayal, his

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sons turn on him. And this is where it gets really

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interesting. He aligns himself with the acclaimed

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Max Caster and Anthony Bowens. And Daddy Ass

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is born. It was completely organic, wasn't it?

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It was. The crowd just loved it. Bowens coined

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the name Daddy Ass as a reference to the old

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Mr. Ass gimmick, but flipped it to make him this

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cool, supportive father figure. I mean, you have

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entire stadiums chanting, oh, scissor me daddy.

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Which sounds absolutely insane to say out loud.

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It does. But it became the hottest act in the

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whole company. And it led to championship gold.

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Again. At all. In 2023, this is a massive show

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at Wembley Stadium in London. Over 80 ,000 people.

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And he, the acclaimed, they win the ADW World

00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:10.620
Trios Championship. He is 60 years old at this

00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:13.190
point. 60. And we have to pause on that. The

00:12:13.190 --> 00:12:15.450
sources note he has battled severe asthma his

00:12:15.450 --> 00:12:18.190
entire life. He uses an inhaler before matches.

00:12:18.669 --> 00:12:21.870
To be performing at that level at 60 with asthma,

00:12:21.950 --> 00:12:24.230
it's a statistical anomaly. They held those titles

00:12:24.230 --> 00:12:27.009
for a record 238 days before losing them to a

00:12:27.009 --> 00:12:29.370
group that, ironically, included his own sons.

00:12:29.669 --> 00:12:31.490
It brings the story full circle. He made his

00:12:31.490 --> 00:12:33.809
name in tag teams, and even in his 60s, his success

00:12:33.809 --> 00:12:35.990
came from finding the right partners. So looking

00:12:35.990 --> 00:12:39.110
back... Bull Rider, Smoking Gun, Rockabilly,

00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:41.889
New Age Outlaw, Mr. Ass, Billy and Chuck, Voodoo

00:12:41.889 --> 00:12:44.529
Kin Mafia, Cute Kip, Gun Club, Daddy Ass. It

00:12:44.529 --> 00:12:47.549
is exhausting just listing them. It is. But the

00:12:47.549 --> 00:12:50.450
thread connecting them all is adaptability. He

00:12:50.450 --> 00:12:52.929
never let his character get stale. He understood

00:12:52.929 --> 00:12:55.769
that how good your moves are only gets you so

00:12:55.769 --> 00:12:58.549
far. Your character is what gets you paid. He

00:12:58.549 --> 00:13:01.490
is a chameleon. A chameleon with a 36 -inch vertical

00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:04.289
leap. And he understood the power of tag teams.

00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.720
That's the other big takeaway. He realized that

00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:09.059
by sharing the spotlight, he could extend his

00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:11.860
career. He let Road Dogg do the talking. He let

00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:13.840
the acclaimed do the rapping. He just had to

00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.379
be the physical presence. It saved his body and

00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:18.899
kept him fresh. So what does this all mean for

00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:21.740
you, the listener? I think it's a lesson in reinvention.

00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:23.759
You don't have to be the same person you were

00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.080
10 years ago to be successful today. In fact,

00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:29.580
in his industry, and honestly in a lot of industries,

00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:32.039
if you stay the same person, you become obsolete.

00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:35.049
His superpower wasn't just his dropkick. It was

00:13:35.049 --> 00:13:37.429
his ability to read the room and change. And

00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:41.110
his name. And his name. Many, many times. Before

00:13:41.110 --> 00:13:42.950
we wrap up, I want to leave you with a thought.

00:13:43.090 --> 00:13:45.769
We often talk about wrestlers who burn out bright

00:13:45.769 --> 00:13:48.909
and fast. But in an industry that usually chews

00:13:48.909 --> 00:13:52.330
up talent by age 40, you have to ask, does Billy

00:13:52.330 --> 00:13:55.490
Gunn have the greatest second act or third or

00:13:55.490 --> 00:13:57.850
fourth in wrestling history? It's certainly the

00:13:57.850 --> 00:14:00.009
most colorful. Thanks for listening to this deep

00:14:00.009 --> 00:14:02.269
dive. we'll catch you on the next one see you

00:14:02.269 --> 00:14:02.370
then