WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.259 I want to take you somewhere. Let's go to a specific 00:00:02.259 --> 00:00:04.360 coordinate in space and time. Okay, I'm with 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:06.599 you. We're in the Buckhead area of North Atlanta, 00:00:06.860 --> 00:00:09.560 but I want you to just erase the image you might 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:13.179 have of it today. No luxury shopping malls, no 00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:17.699 high -rise condos. Hmm, not even close. No. It's 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:20.679 the mid -1920s. You're looking at, well, mostly 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:23.780 woods, dirt roads, a few scattered roadhouses. 00:00:24.059 --> 00:00:25.769 A totally different world. And we're walking 00:00:25.769 --> 00:00:28.329 up to this place called Tidwell's Barbecue. And 00:00:28.329 --> 00:00:30.710 the air is just thick. It's not just the Georgia 00:00:30.710 --> 00:00:33.549 summer humidity, but it's that really specific, 00:00:33.770 --> 00:00:36.750 sharp smell of hickory smoke and roasting pork. 00:00:36.950 --> 00:00:39.869 You can almost taste it. And, you know, you have 00:00:39.869 --> 00:00:42.429 to remember the social context here, too. This 00:00:42.429 --> 00:00:45.350 is the Jim Crow South. The dining room is segregated. 00:00:45.689 --> 00:00:49.750 Every single interaction is codified by these 00:00:49.750 --> 00:00:52.509 really rigid social rules. Right. There's a tension 00:00:52.509 --> 00:00:54.670 in the air. But there's a sound that's cutting 00:00:54.670 --> 00:00:56.450 through all of that. You're not just there for 00:00:56.450 --> 00:00:59.549 a sandwich. You're hearing this massive driving 00:00:59.549 --> 00:01:02.030 rhythm coming from the back, maybe from a stool 00:01:02.030 --> 00:01:04.390 near the kitchen, maybe out by the pits. And 00:01:04.390 --> 00:01:07.790 then you see him. And the image is just unforgettable. 00:01:08.590 --> 00:01:11.909 A man in his full chef's white, the tall stiff 00:01:11.909 --> 00:01:15.319 hat, the long clean white apron. But he's not 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:17.219 flipping a rack of ribs. He's wrestling with 00:01:17.219 --> 00:01:20.219 this massive guitar. And it's not just any guitar. 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:22.939 It's a 12 -string. I mean, that's a literal cannon 00:01:22.939 --> 00:01:25.000 of an instrument. It's huge. And this is Robert 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.519 Hicks. But the world and, you know, history would 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:32.439 come to know him as Barbecue Bob. And I think 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.379 what's so compelling about this deep dive, for 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:36.500 me anyway, is that we're not just looking at 00:01:36.500 --> 00:01:38.799 a musician. We are looking at one of the earliest 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:42.140 and one of the most successful examples of branding 00:01:42.140 --> 00:01:44.519 in music history. That's a great way to put it. 00:01:44.750 --> 00:01:46.890 It really is. We're looking at a man who, in 00:01:46.890 --> 00:01:49.129 a career that lasted, what, barely four years, 00:01:49.269 --> 00:01:53.189 helped define the entire Atlanta sound. It's 00:01:53.189 --> 00:01:55.030 a story that touches on so many different things. 00:01:55.129 --> 00:01:56.969 You've got the raw mechanics of the music business 00:01:56.969 --> 00:01:59.590 in the 1920s. You've got the evolution of guitar 00:01:59.590 --> 00:02:01.870 technique. And then you have the brutal reality 00:02:01.870 --> 00:02:05.450 of health and life expectancy for black men in 00:02:05.450 --> 00:02:07.349 the South during the Depression. Yeah, we've 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:09.370 got a massive stack of notes for this one. We're 00:02:09.370 --> 00:02:13.500 pulling from... Columbia Records session logs, 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:16.120 a ton of biographical research, and some really 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.460 fascinating analysis on the Piedmont blues tradition. 00:02:19.780 --> 00:02:22.300 A lot to unpack. So let's get into the red clay. 00:02:22.419 --> 00:02:24.819 We need to understand where this sound actually 00:02:24.819 --> 00:02:27.580 came from. Because Robert Hicks didn't just appear 00:02:27.580 --> 00:02:30.139 in a puff of barbecue smoke. No, not at all. 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:33.319 He was a product of a very, very specific environment. 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:37.319 He was born September 11, 1902, in Walnut Grove, 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.620 Georgia. His parents... Charlie and Mary Hicks 00:02:40.620 --> 00:02:43.120 were sharecroppers. And I think we need to pause 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:44.960 on that term, sharecroppers, because it gets 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.560 thrown around a lot in Blue's biographies, almost 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:49.680 like it's just a background detail. Like it's 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.659 just a job title. Right, like accountant or plumber. 00:02:52.780 --> 00:02:55.060 But it was a system. It was a system of entrapment. 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:57.340 Precisely. In the post -Reconstruction South, 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:01.020 sharecropping was essentially a way to maintain 00:03:01.020 --> 00:03:04.379 a Libra force without paying actual wages. You 00:03:04.379 --> 00:03:07.000 worked land you didn't own, using tools you had 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:09.789 to buy on credit. from the landowner to grow 00:03:09.789 --> 00:03:12.110 crops that you then had to split with that same 00:03:12.110 --> 00:03:14.969 owner. It was designed to be a cycle of perpetual 00:03:14.969 --> 00:03:17.789 debt. So if the crop failed, you were even further 00:03:17.789 --> 00:03:20.330 in the hole. And if the crop was good, somehow 00:03:20.330 --> 00:03:22.969 the books were cooked. So you just broke even 00:03:22.969 --> 00:03:25.539 at best. It was impossible situation. And in 00:03:25.539 --> 00:03:27.819 that kind of environment, music isn't just a 00:03:27.819 --> 00:03:30.159 hobby. It's a lifeline. It's a psychological 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:33.879 release valve. It's a way to reclaim some piece 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:36.680 of your life, some agency on a Saturday night. 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:39.759 The Hicks family eventually moved to Newton County. 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:42.020 And this is where the story really pivots from 00:03:42.020 --> 00:03:47.080 agricultural labor to musical education. And 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:48.780 this part of the research really surprised me. 00:03:49.409 --> 00:03:52.169 Specifically, who the teacher was. Savannah Dipweaver. 00:03:52.289 --> 00:03:54.129 Which is, first of all, an incredible name. It 00:03:54.129 --> 00:03:56.629 is. But her role is even more incredible. You 00:03:56.629 --> 00:03:58.009 know, in the history of the blues, we almost 00:03:58.009 --> 00:04:00.729 always hear about the old wise bluesmen teaching 00:04:00.729 --> 00:04:02.789 the young kid on a porch. It's almost always 00:04:02.789 --> 00:04:05.909 this male -dominated lineage. But here, the architect 00:04:05.909 --> 00:04:09.550 of this sound is a woman. It's such a vital correction 00:04:09.550 --> 00:04:13.090 to the historical record. Savannah Weaver wasn't 00:04:13.090 --> 00:04:15.469 just strumming a few chords on the side. She 00:04:15.469 --> 00:04:18.610 was a matriarch of the Piedmont style. She taught 00:04:18.610 --> 00:04:20.850 Robert Hicks and his brother Charlie Lincoln 00:04:20.850 --> 00:04:22.970 how to play. And she didn't just teach them. 00:04:23.009 --> 00:04:25.569 She taught her own son. Her own son, Curly Weaver. 00:04:25.589 --> 00:04:27.490 And for anyone who listens to pre -war blues, 00:04:27.790 --> 00:04:30.410 Curly Weaver is a giant. He's up there with Blind 00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:33.889 Willie McTell. So what you have is this kind 00:04:33.889 --> 00:04:36.129 of kitchen table conservatory happening in Newton 00:04:36.129 --> 00:04:39.350 County. It creates a musical DNA. I mean, think 00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:41.970 about it. These guys, Robert, his brother Charlie, 00:04:42.170 --> 00:04:44.470 their friend Curly, they all learned from the 00:04:44.470 --> 00:04:47.089 exact same source. They developed this locked 00:04:47.089 --> 00:04:49.709 in musical language. It's why when you hear their 00:04:49.709 --> 00:04:52.170 later recordings together, the interplay feels 00:04:52.170 --> 00:04:54.310 telepathic. They aren't guessing where the beat 00:04:54.310 --> 00:04:56.050 is going to fall. They were raised on the same 00:04:56.050 --> 00:04:58.149 beat from the same teacher. So let's talk about 00:04:58.149 --> 00:05:00.170 that beat or maybe the instrument that drove 00:05:00.170 --> 00:05:02.730 it. Because when Hicks makes the move to Atlanta 00:05:02.730 --> 00:05:06.550 in 1924, something fundamental changes in his 00:05:06.550 --> 00:05:09.069 setup. A huge change. He leaves the country, 00:05:09.209 --> 00:05:12.389 he hits the big city, and he swaps his standard 00:05:12.389 --> 00:05:15.850 six -string guitar for a 12 -string. And this 00:05:15.850 --> 00:05:18.889 wasn't just a whim. This was a deliberate tactical 00:05:18.889 --> 00:05:22.050 choice. We have to look at the sonic environment 00:05:22.050 --> 00:05:25.819 of Atlanta. in the mid -20s. Right. This is not 00:05:25.819 --> 00:05:29.339 a quiet rural porch anymore. No. Atlanta was 00:05:29.339 --> 00:05:32.620 a booming industrial hub. It was noisy. You've 00:05:32.620 --> 00:05:35.740 got streetcars clanging, early automobiles, construction, 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:38.920 crowds of people talking and shouting. So if 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:40.680 you're a street performer, which is how a lot 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:42.519 of these guys made their daily bread. Exactly. 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:45.139 A standard acoustic guitar just disappears in 00:05:45.139 --> 00:05:46.800 that mix. It gets swallowed up. You need volume. 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:49.319 You need to cut through. And physics comes into 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:52.339 play here. A 12 -string guitar has the strings 00:05:52.339 --> 00:05:54.800 paired up. The lower four pairs are usually tuned 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.629 an octave apart. So when you hit the low E string, 00:05:57.850 --> 00:05:59.970 you aren't just hearing one low note. You're 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:01.750 hearing two. You're hearing the low note and 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:04.250 a high chiming note at the same time. Yeah. It 00:06:04.250 --> 00:06:06.389 literally doubles the sound pressure. It creates 00:06:06.389 --> 00:06:08.649 this natural chorus effect. Yeah. It's a wall 00:06:08.649 --> 00:06:12.029 of sound coming from one instrument. It's essentially 00:06:12.029 --> 00:06:14.870 acoustic amplification. You're maximizing the 00:06:14.870 --> 00:06:16.990 frequencies you can produce to cut through all 00:06:16.990 --> 00:06:19.550 that ambient noise on a busy street corner on 00:06:19.550 --> 00:06:22.389 Decatur Street. Precisely. And that choice, that 00:06:22.389 --> 00:06:25.350 specific choice, is what defined the Atlanta 00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:28.730 style. When musicologists talk about the Atlanta 00:06:28.730 --> 00:06:32.189 blues of the 1920s, they're almost strictly talking 00:06:32.189 --> 00:06:35.410 about that massive, ringing, 12 -string sound. 00:06:35.750 --> 00:06:37.709 It's so different from the Mississippi Delta 00:06:37.709 --> 00:06:39.990 sound. Totally different. The Delta was often 00:06:39.990 --> 00:06:42.790 more sparse, more percussive, usually on a 6 00:06:42.790 --> 00:06:45.769 -string. The Atlanta sound was, I mean, almost 00:06:45.769 --> 00:06:48.829 orchestral in its density by comparison. So Hicks 00:06:48.829 --> 00:06:51.069 is in Atlanta. He's got this cannon of a guitar, 00:06:51.269 --> 00:06:53.850 but he's not famous yet. He's working odd jobs, 00:06:53.930 --> 00:06:56.310 and eventually he lands at Tidwell's. And this 00:06:56.310 --> 00:06:58.970 brings us right back to that opening image. He's 00:06:58.970 --> 00:07:01.209 the singing cook. Which is a great gig. If you 00:07:01.209 --> 00:07:03.029 can get it, he's getting a regular wage, he's 00:07:03.029 --> 00:07:05.009 probably getting tips, and he's building a local 00:07:05.009 --> 00:07:06.990 fan base every single day. He's got a captive 00:07:06.990 --> 00:07:09.170 audience. But the pivotal moment comes when a 00:07:09.170 --> 00:07:12.910 guy named Dan Hornsby walks in. Mmm, the talent 00:07:12.910 --> 00:07:15.939 scout. Dan Hornsby was a talent scout for Columbia 00:07:15.939 --> 00:07:18.259 Records. And this is where the deep dive gets 00:07:18.259 --> 00:07:19.939 really interesting, I think, when you look at 00:07:19.939 --> 00:07:22.899 the industry side of things. Hornsby hears Hicks 00:07:22.899 --> 00:07:26.420 play. He realizes the guy has talent, but he 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:28.660 doesn't just sign Robert Hicks, guitar player. 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:30.939 No, he sees a hook. He sees a marketing angle. 00:07:31.139 --> 00:07:34.160 Exactly. Hornsby was a savvy operator. You have 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:36.240 to understand the state of the race records market 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.939 in 1927. And race records was the industry term 00:07:39.939 --> 00:07:43.180 for music recorded by black artists for black 00:07:43.180 --> 00:07:45.439 audiences. And it was a booming market. It was 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:47.879 booming, but it was also getting saturated. You 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:50.000 had Blind Lemon Jefferson selling huge numbers 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:52.259 for Paramount. You had Bessie Smith, who was 00:07:52.259 --> 00:07:55.259 just dominating for Columbia. To break a new 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:57.959 male guitarist, you needed an angle. You needed 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:00.040 something to make him stand out. Being just another 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:01.959 guy in a suit with a guitar wasn't going to cut 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:04.420 it. No. So Hornsby looks at Hicks, he looks at 00:08:04.420 --> 00:08:06.019 the apron, he looks at the whole scene, and the 00:08:06.019 --> 00:08:09.649 light bulb goes off. Barbecue Bob. It's so simple. 00:08:09.689 --> 00:08:12.509 It's brilliant. It's brilliant in its simplicity. 00:08:12.730 --> 00:08:15.670 It anchors the artist in this relatable working 00:08:15.670 --> 00:08:18.370 class identity. It makes him instantly memorable. 00:08:18.689 --> 00:08:22.069 But what really fascinates me is how they leaned 00:08:22.069 --> 00:08:24.569 into the visual branding of it all. Oh, the photos 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:26.910 are iconic. I was looking at the promo shots 00:08:26.910 --> 00:08:29.910 that Columbia sent out. Most bluesmen of that 00:08:29.910 --> 00:08:33.009 era, you think of, like Blind Blake or Lonnie 00:08:33.009 --> 00:08:37.110 Johnson, they dress to the nines. Suits, fedoras, 00:08:37.330 --> 00:08:40.149 polished shoes. They wanted to project sophistication, 00:08:40.269 --> 00:08:42.350 professionalism. Right. They were trying to distance 00:08:42.350 --> 00:08:45.590 themselves from the stereotype of the rural worker. 00:08:45.809 --> 00:08:48.110 They were professional entertainers and they 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:50.110 wanted to look the part. But Hicks, they put 00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:52.450 him in the full uniform. The two cat is like 00:08:52.450 --> 00:08:54.929 a foot tall. The apron is spotless. He's holding 00:08:54.929 --> 00:08:56.769 the guitar like he's about to serve it to you 00:08:56.769 --> 00:08:58.970 on a platter. It was a gimmick, no question. 00:08:59.129 --> 00:09:01.470 Of course. But it was a gimmick that signaled. 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:05.059 a kind of authenticity to a very specific audience. 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:07.679 It said, I'm one of you, I work for a living, 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.879 and I play the blues on the side. It completely 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:13.940 differentiated him from the more polished, vaudeville 00:09:13.940 --> 00:09:16.879 -style blues singers. And the numbers suggest 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.799 it worked. I mean, it really worked. We're talking 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:20.879 about a career that starts in March of 1927. 00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:24.340 Right. Between then and December of 1930, he 00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:28.450 records 68 songs. 68 signs. That is an insane 00:09:28.450 --> 00:09:31.070 work rate. It's prolific, and the sales match 00:09:31.070 --> 00:09:33.490 the output. He became one of the top -selling 00:09:33.490 --> 00:09:36.850 artists in Columbia's entire race series. The 00:09:36.850 --> 00:09:39.669 only people outselling him were absolute superstars. 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:41.269 Yeah, you're talking about Bessie Smith, Ethel 00:09:41.269 --> 00:09:43.090 Waters, Blind Willie Johnson. That's the top 00:09:43.090 --> 00:09:45.750 tier. And his debut record, Barbecue Blues, it 00:09:45.750 --> 00:09:49.289 sold 15 ,000 copies. Now, in the age of streaming, 00:09:49.330 --> 00:09:51.690 where we're looking for millions of plays, 15 00:09:51.690 --> 00:09:54.730 ,000 might sound small. But in 1927... It's a 00:09:54.730 --> 00:09:57.429 massive hit. A record cost 75 cents back then. 00:09:57.649 --> 00:09:59.830 That's not cheap, especially for the demographic 00:09:59.830 --> 00:10:01.769 that was buying these records. That's a real 00:10:01.769 --> 00:10:05.570 expense. It is. To sell 15 ,000 units meant people 00:10:05.570 --> 00:10:08.110 were prioritizing this music over other necessities. 00:10:08.250 --> 00:10:11.090 It just proved that the BBQ Bob persona and that 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:13.669 specific Atlanta sound had tapped into a real 00:10:13.669 --> 00:10:16.330 hunger in the market. So we've established the 00:10:16.330 --> 00:10:18.710 look and the brand. Let's get a little more technical 00:10:18.710 --> 00:10:20.309 on the sound. We've mentioned the 12 string, 00:10:20.409 --> 00:10:22.690 but it's not just what he played. It's how he 00:10:22.690 --> 00:10:24.830 played it. The term that always comes up with 00:10:24.830 --> 00:10:28.210 Barbecue Bob is frailing. Yes. And if you're 00:10:28.210 --> 00:10:30.529 a banjo player, you know exactly what that means. 00:10:30.909 --> 00:10:34.029 But for guitar players, it's been unusual. OK, 00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:35.970 so break it down for us, because when I listen 00:10:35.970 --> 00:10:38.850 to his records, it doesn't sound like the intricate 00:10:38.850 --> 00:10:41.269 finger picking of someone like, say, Mississippi 00:10:41.269 --> 00:10:45.990 John Hurt. It sounds. Heavier. More powerful. 00:10:46.250 --> 00:10:49.070 That's the key word. Heavier. Finger picking 00:10:49.070 --> 00:10:51.789 usually involves the thumb playing a steady bass 00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:54.549 line while the other fingers pluck these intricate 00:10:54.549 --> 00:10:56.669 melodies on the treble strings. It's an up and 00:10:56.669 --> 00:10:59.529 down motion. Very precise. Frailing, which comes 00:10:59.529 --> 00:11:01.610 from the claw hammer banjo tradition, is completely 00:11:01.610 --> 00:11:04.190 different. It's based on a downward stroke. So 00:11:04.190 --> 00:11:06.090 he's actually striking down on the strings with 00:11:06.090 --> 00:11:08.470 the back of his fingernail? Exactly. You strike 00:11:08.470 --> 00:11:10.330 down across the strings with the back of your 00:11:10.330 --> 00:11:13.620 nail. usually the index or middle finger, and 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:15.659 then your thumb kind of catches the high string 00:11:15.659 --> 00:11:19.039 on the way back up. It creates this driving, 00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:22.580 rhythmic, bum -diddy, bum -diddy feel. It's incredibly 00:11:22.580 --> 00:11:24.320 percussive. You aren't just plucking a note, 00:11:24.379 --> 00:11:26.480 you're whacking the string. And when you do that 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:28.340 on a 12 -string, which already has all those 00:11:28.340 --> 00:11:30.620 extra strings vibrating... It creates a wall 00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:33.580 of rhythm. It's almost hypnotic. And then, just 00:11:33.580 --> 00:11:35.740 to make it even more distinctive, he combined 00:11:35.740 --> 00:11:38.480 that frailing technique... with a bottleneck 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.700 slide. Right, the slide. That's what gives it 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:43.940 that vocal singing quality. He'd keep the guitar 00:11:43.940 --> 00:11:46.799 in an open tuning, usually open G or open A, 00:11:46.899 --> 00:11:49.259 which means if you strum all the strings open 00:11:49.259 --> 00:11:51.220 without touching the fretboard, it already plays 00:11:51.220 --> 00:11:54.120 a major chord. Ah, okay. This allows the slide 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.820 to just glide up and down the neck, creating 00:11:55.820 --> 00:11:58.360 those whining, crying notes that so perfectly 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:02.139 mimic the human voice. So you have this percussive... 00:12:02.620 --> 00:12:05.460 banjo like thumping coming from his right hand 00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:08.159 and at the same time the smooth crying slide 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:11.000 from his left hand. It's a contrast that creates 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:13.659 a lot of tension and release in the music. It's 00:12:13.659 --> 00:12:17.120 a very very specific texture. It's aggressive 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.840 but it's also melodic. It's loud but it's also 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:21.720 soulful. You know it reminds me a little bit 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:23.779 of Charlie Patton over in the Delta who also 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:25.860 played with that kind of rhythmic ferocity. Sure. 00:12:26.889 --> 00:12:29.429 Hicks had that shimmering ring from the 12 -string 00:12:29.429 --> 00:12:31.669 that was just unique to Atlanta. And on top of 00:12:31.669 --> 00:12:34.169 all that, we can't ignore the voice itself. No, 00:12:34.250 --> 00:12:37.370 absolutely not. He had a strong, clear, declamatory 00:12:37.370 --> 00:12:40.529 voice. But he was a stylist. He wasn't just singing. 00:12:40.610 --> 00:12:43.389 He used growls. He used falsetto. He would jump 00:12:43.389 --> 00:12:46.950 up an octave to emphasize a word or a line. He 00:12:46.950 --> 00:12:49.370 wasn't just singing the melody. He was dramatizing 00:12:49.370 --> 00:12:51.549 the lyrics. Speaking of lyrics, this is where 00:12:51.549 --> 00:12:53.850 I think Barbecue Bob becomes more than just an 00:12:53.850 --> 00:12:56.470 entertainer. He becomes, in a way, a historian, 00:12:56.830 --> 00:12:59.370 a chronicler. Because when you look at his discography, 00:12:59.710 --> 00:13:02.570 he's covering the major events of his time in 00:13:02.570 --> 00:13:04.909 real time. This is the blues man as reporter 00:13:04.909 --> 00:13:08.139 function. And it's so important. In an era where 00:13:08.139 --> 00:13:10.220 black communities were often completely ignored 00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:12.600 by mainstream newspapers or the coverage was 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:15.340 incredibly biased, Blue's record served as a 00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:17.799 form of community news and editorial. And the 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:20.179 biggest example of that has to be the Great Mississippi 00:13:20.179 --> 00:13:23.779 Flood of 1927. Oh, a truly catastrophic event. 00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:26.879 The Mississippi River just swelled, levees broke 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:29.929 all over, and it devastated the Delta. Hundreds 00:13:29.929 --> 00:13:32.250 of thousands of people were displaced. And the 00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:34.950 relief efforts were notoriously racist. Absolutely. 00:13:35.210 --> 00:13:37.490 With black refugees being forced into labor camps 00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:40.210 at gunpoint to rebuild the levees, it was horrific. 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:43.399 So Hicks records Mississippi Heavy Water Blues 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:47.480 in June of 1927. The flood is basically still 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:49.100 happening. He's up in New York City recording 00:13:49.100 --> 00:13:51.759 this. And the lyrics are just so vivid. He captures 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.179 the panic, the loss of home, the separation of 00:13:54.179 --> 00:13:57.179 families. That song resonated so powerfully because 00:13:57.179 --> 00:13:59.500 it was reflecting the immediate trauma of his 00:13:59.500 --> 00:14:01.379 audience. It wasn't some abstract song about 00:14:01.379 --> 00:14:04.519 sadness. It was about that water, that levee 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:06.580 right now. It was so popular he actually released 00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:09.419 a sequel. He did. Mississippi Low Levee Blues. 00:14:09.929 --> 00:14:12.230 The next year. Like a serialized news report 00:14:12.230 --> 00:14:14.769 set to music. But he didn't just stop with natural 00:14:14.769 --> 00:14:17.230 disasters. When the financial world collapsed, 00:14:17.429 --> 00:14:19.409 he was right there too. The Great Depression. 00:14:19.669 --> 00:14:23.669 In April 1930, he recorded We Sure Got Hard Times 00:14:23.669 --> 00:14:26.970 Now. The title alone is a thesis statement. It 00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:29.820 really is. And the lyrics are just bleak. He 00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:31.860 talks about landlords turning people out onto 00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:34.500 the street, about the lack of food, about the 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:37.279 general feeling of hopelessness. And this is 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.720 significant because, you know, we often think 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.580 of the roaring 20s crashing into the Depression. 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:45.000 But for the demographic Hicks represented, the 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.460 hard times started a lot earlier and hit a lot 00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:50.980 harder. So the song validates the suffering of 00:14:50.980 --> 00:14:53.440 the listener. It's saying, I see you. I see what 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.289 you're going through. Exactly. It's heavy stuff. 00:14:56.549 --> 00:14:58.889 But I don't want to paint him as purely a merchant 00:14:58.889 --> 00:15:01.549 of doom and gloom. There's a lot of joy and humor 00:15:01.549 --> 00:15:04.090 in his catalog, too, especially when he teams 00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:07.850 up with his brother. Ah, yes. The sessions with 00:15:07.850 --> 00:15:10.169 Charlie Lincoln, who is also known as Laughing 00:15:10.169 --> 00:15:13.009 Charlie. They recorded It Won't Be Long Now. 00:15:13.529 --> 00:15:16.570 in november of 27. and what i love about this 00:15:16.570 --> 00:15:18.330 track is the crosstalk they're just chatting 00:15:18.330 --> 00:15:20.090 away right in the middle of the song it completely 00:15:20.090 --> 00:15:22.330 breaks the fourth wall it sounds like two brothers 00:15:22.330 --> 00:15:25.090 just sitting on a porch cracking jokes egging 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:27.629 each other on you hear them shouting play it 00:15:27.629 --> 00:15:30.990 boy and i hear you it captures the spontaneity 00:15:30.990 --> 00:15:33.649 of the music it reminds us that before this was 00:15:33.649 --> 00:15:36.350 a commercial product on a record it was a communal 00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:39.570 activity it was music for parties for drinking 00:15:39.570 --> 00:15:43.080 for dancing It was alive. And he also kept one 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.299 foot firmly in the church. That duality is so 00:15:46.299 --> 00:15:48.940 central to the blues experience, the Saturday 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:50.960 night sin and the Sunday morning redemption. 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:54.360 Hicks recorded spirituals like, When the saints 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.019 go marching in and Jesus' blood can make me whole. 00:15:57.419 --> 00:15:59.740 Which shows his versatility. He could play the 00:15:59.740 --> 00:16:01.720 barbecue joint, he could play the street corner, 00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:03.580 and he could play the church picnic. He had the 00:16:03.580 --> 00:16:05.539 repertoire for all of it. And he treated all 00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:07.899 the material with equal respect. The technique? 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.120 The slide, the 12 string, the frailing, it all 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.039 remained consistent, whether he was singing about 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.620 a cheating lover or about divine salvation. So 00:16:15.620 --> 00:16:17.980 we move into the 1930s. Hicks is an established 00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:19.879 star at this point. He's making good money for 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.960 the time. And in December of 1930, he forms what 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.139 we would call today, I guess, a super group. 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.899 The Georgia Cotton Pickers. And the lineup is 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:30.639 stacked. You have Barbecue Bob on guitar and 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.059 vocals. You have his old friend Curly Weaver 00:16:34.059 --> 00:16:37.360 also on guitar. And you have a young up and coming 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.740 harmonica player named Buddy Moss. And Buddy 00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:42.080 Moss is really important here because he represents 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.639 the next generation. He was deeply influenced 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.299 by Hicks, but he would go on to help define the 00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:50.039 sound of the 1930s blues scene in his own right. 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:52.779 In this group, they were adapting current hits. 00:16:52.899 --> 00:16:55.360 They did Diddle Da Diddle, which was basically 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.279 a take on a Blind A Blake song. Mm -hmm. Diddy 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:00.580 Why Diddy. Right. And I'm On My Way Down Home, 00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:03.320 which was their version of the Mississippi Chic's 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.680 massive hit, Sitting on Top of the World. It 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.250 shows they were listening. They're listening 00:17:07.250 --> 00:17:09.589 to the competition, to what was popular. They 00:17:09.589 --> 00:17:11.690 were taking these melodies of the day and just 00:17:11.690 --> 00:17:14.829 putting that heavy Atlanta 12 -string stamp all 00:17:14.829 --> 00:17:17.390 over them. It's a real moment of musical synthesis. 00:17:17.509 --> 00:17:19.750 You can just hear the camaraderie in those recordings. 00:17:20.069 --> 00:17:22.049 But there's a shadow hanging over these sessions. 00:17:22.470 --> 00:17:25.089 Because as vibrant and exciting as they sound, 00:17:25.210 --> 00:17:27.150 these are the final chapters of Robert Hicks' 00:17:27.250 --> 00:17:31.230 life. Yes. We're in December of 1930. The clock 00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:35.190 is ticking very, very fast. The tragedy of his 00:17:35.190 --> 00:17:37.190 death isn't just that he died so young. It's 00:17:37.190 --> 00:17:40.029 how he died. It feels like a systemic failure. 00:17:40.349 --> 00:17:44.369 He passed away on October 21, 1931, in Lithonia, 00:17:44.549 --> 00:17:47.690 Georgia. He was only 29 years old. 29. The same 00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:49.470 age as Hank Williams. I mean, he was just a kid, 00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:52.170 really. And the official cause of death was a 00:17:52.170 --> 00:17:54.730 cascade of illnesses. It started with influenza, 00:17:55.029 --> 00:17:57.450 a simple flu. Then that developed into pneumonia. 00:17:57.730 --> 00:17:59.730 But the underlying condition that made him so 00:17:59.730 --> 00:18:03.309 vulnerable was tuberculosis. TB. It was the scourge 00:18:03.309 --> 00:18:05.750 of the era. It was. And we have to look at this 00:18:05.750 --> 00:18:08.029 through the lens of 1931 health care for black 00:18:08.029 --> 00:18:10.990 Americans in the South. Tuberculosis thrives 00:18:10.990 --> 00:18:13.190 in poor living conditions with poor nutrition. 00:18:13.450 --> 00:18:16.250 And treatment was often completely inaccessible 00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:18.829 or strictly segregated. So his chances were slim 00:18:18.829 --> 00:18:21.089 from the start. If you were a black man in Georgia 00:18:21.089 --> 00:18:24.349 in 1931. Your access to a sanitarium or to advanced 00:18:24.349 --> 00:18:27.210 medical care was severely, severely limited compared 00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:28.970 to a white patient. There's no question about 00:18:28.970 --> 00:18:31.569 it. So he catches the flu, which his body might 00:18:31.569 --> 00:18:34.289 have fought off under normal circumstances. But 00:18:34.289 --> 00:18:36.990 because he has this untreated TB, his immune 00:18:36.990 --> 00:18:39.450 system is already compromised. Then pneumonia 00:18:39.450 --> 00:18:42.779 sets in and it's over. It's just a brutal reminder 00:18:42.779 --> 00:18:46.059 of the fragility of life for these artists. And 00:18:46.059 --> 00:18:48.099 we celebrate their genius, but they were living 00:18:48.099 --> 00:18:51.400 on the absolute razor's edge of survival every 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.539 single day. There's a really poignant detail 00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:57.000 about his funeral that I read. Yes. At his graveside, 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.200 they played his record. They played his recording 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:01.619 of Mississippi Heavy Water Blues. That image 00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:04.180 just haunts me. A group of mourners standing 00:19:04.180 --> 00:19:07.170 in the Georgia dirt. And instead of a choir or 00:19:07.170 --> 00:19:09.609 an organ, there's a wind -up gramophone playing 00:19:09.609 --> 00:19:13.369 that scratchy 78 RPM record. The voice is alive, 00:19:13.630 --> 00:19:16.430 it's loud, it's clear, while the man himself 00:19:16.430 --> 00:19:18.630 is being lowered into the ground. It speaks to 00:19:18.630 --> 00:19:20.329 the immortality of the recording, doesn't it? 00:19:20.539 --> 00:19:23.480 the barbecue bob persona, the brand, the voice 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.319 that survived the man. For decades, though, the 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.660 man himself was somewhat lost to history. His 00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:31.180 grave in Walnut Grove was unmarked for a long, 00:19:31.299 --> 00:19:33.920 long time. Which is a common tragedy for so many 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.119 early blues musicians. But this story has a bit 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.390 of a resolution, thankfully. In 2017, the Killer 00:19:40.390 --> 00:19:43.109 Blues Headstone Project finally placed a proper 00:19:43.109 --> 00:19:45.089 headstone for him. That's good to hear. So he 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:47.549 finally has the recognition he deserves at his 00:19:47.549 --> 00:19:50.210 final resting place. Now I want to pivot to his 00:19:50.210 --> 00:19:53.250 legacy. Because usually when a major artist dies, 00:19:53.390 --> 00:19:55.769 their style becomes the dominant thing for a 00:19:55.769 --> 00:19:58.369 while. Everyone tries to copy them. But with 00:19:58.369 --> 00:20:01.650 Barbecue Bob, something kind of strange happened. 00:20:01.890 --> 00:20:05.009 You're right. His style, that heavy, frailing 00:20:05.009 --> 00:20:07.970 strumming technique on the 12 -string, it didn't 00:20:07.970 --> 00:20:09.809 really survive him. In fact, you could argue 00:20:09.809 --> 00:20:11.789 it almost died with him. And why is that? He 00:20:11.789 --> 00:20:13.650 was selling thousands and thousands of records. 00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:15.829 You'd think every kid in Atlanta would be buying 00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:17.990 a 12 -string and banging on it. A few factors 00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:20.470 were at play. First, let's be honest, the 12 00:20:20.470 --> 00:20:22.769 -string is hard to play, it's physically demanding 00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:25.089 on your hands, but more importantly, musical 00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:28.279 tastes were shifting very quickly. The Piedmont 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:31.220 blues that came to dominate the 1930s was defined 00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:34.299 by that intricate, ragtime -influenced fingerpicking 00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:36.859 we mentioned earlier. The style of guys like 00:20:36.859 --> 00:20:39.880 Blind Boy Fuller, Reverend Gary Davis. And Curly 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:42.559 Weaver. And this is the great irony. Curly Weaver, 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.339 who started out frailing just like Bob, he adapted. 00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:48.079 He moved toward the fingerpicking style because 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.279 that's what the market began to favor. It was 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:52.980 seen as more melodic, maybe a bit more sophisticated. 00:20:53.630 --> 00:20:56.329 So the heavy, percussive, frailing style began 00:20:56.329 --> 00:20:58.869 to sound old -fashioned almost overnight. In 00:20:58.869 --> 00:21:01.109 a way, yeah. It's a strange thing to think about. 00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:04.349 Barbecue Bob was the absolute peak of a specific 00:21:04.349 --> 00:21:08.789 mountain. But then, almost immediately, everybody 00:21:08.789 --> 00:21:11.359 else decided to go climb a different one. So 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.880 he really is the definitive example of that specific 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:17.680 1920s Atlanta sound. It starts and effectively 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:19.980 it ends with him in his immediate circle. But 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:22.099 he didn't disappear from the consciousness of 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:24.099 musicians. He just sort of went dormant for a 00:21:24.099 --> 00:21:26.380 few decades until the folk revival. Right. The 00:21:26.380 --> 00:21:29.299 1960s brought this massive rediscovery of pre 00:21:29.299 --> 00:21:32.660 -war blues. And one of the biggest names to pick 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.420 up the torch was, of course, Eric Clapton. Right. 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:38.339 Clapton covered motherless child blues. He did. 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.220 And Clapton, like so many of the British rockers, 00:21:41.299 --> 00:21:44.119 was just digging through these old record crates, 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.670 looking for authentic material. By covering Hicks, 00:21:47.769 --> 00:21:50.349 he introduced that songwriting to a global audience 00:21:50.349 --> 00:21:54.309 that had likely never even heard of a 1920s barbecue 00:21:54.309 --> 00:21:56.509 cook from Georgia. And then we have to talk about 00:21:56.509 --> 00:21:59.029 John Fahey. This is one of my favorite weird 00:21:59.029 --> 00:22:01.829 side stories in all of music history. John Fahey, 00:22:02.009 --> 00:22:03.930 the father of what's called American primitive 00:22:03.930 --> 00:22:06.329 guitar. Yeah. He was a brilliant, brilliant musician, 00:22:06.490 --> 00:22:08.849 but also a bit of a prankster and a myth maker. 00:22:09.049 --> 00:22:12.670 A big time myth maker. So in 1979, Fahey releases 00:22:12.670 --> 00:22:16.450 a book of guitar tablature. And in it. He includes 00:22:16.450 --> 00:22:18.609 a transcription of Poor Boy, A Long Way From 00:22:18.609 --> 00:22:21.769 Home, which is a Barbecue Bob song. But Fahey 00:22:21.769 --> 00:22:23.970 doesn't want to just say, here's a great Barbecue 00:22:23.970 --> 00:22:26.009 Bob song. That would be too simple. Very easy. 00:22:26.190 --> 00:22:28.690 He attributes it to a character he invented named 00:22:28.690 --> 00:22:31.589 Blind Joe Death. Right. A totally fictional blues 00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:35.019 man. Exactly. But here's the best part. In the 00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:37.779 liner notes, in the explanation, Fahey writes 00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:40.799 that his character, Blind Joe Death, learned 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:42.980 the song from listening to an old Barbecue Bob 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:47.980 record, and he even gives a catalog number. Columbia 00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:50.779 14246D that belonged to the death household. 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.420 It's so wonderfully meta. He creates a fictional 00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:56.200 blues man, but he gives him this realistic backstory 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:58.920 that involves listening to a real Barbecue Bob 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.660 record. It's Faye having fun, for sure, but it 00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:04.500 also underscores a really important truth. The 00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:08.160 old oral tradition had, by then, become a recorded 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.099 tradition. Even in his fake story, the ultimate 00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:13.420 source of the knowledge was that spinning shellac 00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:15.750 disc. It's an acknowledgment that Bar - Barbecue 00:23:15.750 --> 00:23:18.150 Bob's records were the textbooks for future generations, 00:23:18.390 --> 00:23:20.490 even the imaginary ones. We've covered a lot 00:23:20.490 --> 00:23:22.349 of ground here. I mean, from the smell of a barbecue 00:23:22.349 --> 00:23:25.269 pit in 1925 to the physics of a 12 -string guitar, 00:23:25.430 --> 00:23:27.690 from the marketing genius of a chef's hat to 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:29.849 the tragedy of an unmarked grave. It's a dense 00:23:29.849 --> 00:23:32.230 story. There's a lot to it. If you had to distill 00:23:32.230 --> 00:23:34.750 the Barbecue Bob phenomenon down to its absolute 00:23:34.750 --> 00:23:37.569 core, what is it for you? I think, I think for 00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:39.569 me, it's the perfect collision of talent and 00:23:39.569 --> 00:23:42.809 opportunity. Robert Hicks had this immense, raw, 00:23:43.009 --> 00:23:46.289 driving talent. But without the specific context 00:23:46.289 --> 00:23:49.529 of 1920s Atlanta, the street noise that required 00:23:49.529 --> 00:23:51.890 the 12 -string, the recording industry that was 00:23:51.890 --> 00:23:54.109 looking for a character, the musical community 00:23:54.109 --> 00:23:56.109 fostered by Savannah Weaver, he might have just 00:23:56.109 --> 00:23:57.950 been a brilliant guy playing on a porch that 00:23:57.950 --> 00:24:00.390 nobody ever heard. Instead, all those things 00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:02.829 came together, and he became a voice that documented 00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:05.849 his entire era. He's a chronicler of the floods, 00:24:05.869 --> 00:24:07.990 the depressions, and the hard times. He made 00:24:07.990 --> 00:24:10.740 the invisible visible through his music. And 00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:13.059 he did it with a sound and a style that was so 00:24:13.059 --> 00:24:15.839 powerfully and entirely his own. Absolutely. 00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:17.720 Before we sign off, I want to leave her with 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:21.079 one final what if. We talked about how his frailing 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:23.579 style kind of vanished in favor of finger picking 00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:25.839 after he died. Right. It just faded away. So 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.079 here's the thought experiment. What if Robert 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.980 Hicks hadn't died at 29? If he had lived to be 00:24:30.980 --> 00:24:34.160 50 or 60, would he have been able to keep that 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:37.640 style alive? He was such a star. Could his sheer 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:40.779 force of personality and his popularity have 00:24:40.779 --> 00:24:43.920 kept the frailing sound in the mainstream, battling 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.900 it out against the finger pickers through the 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.700 30s and 40s? That is a fascinating alternative 00:24:48.700 --> 00:24:51.180 history to think about. Yeah. I mean, imagine 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:53.640 a 1940s or 50s where the electric guitar comes 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.180 in and Barbecue Bob is there to plug in his 12 00:24:56.180 --> 00:24:58.500 string. Can you imagine what that percussive 00:24:58.500 --> 00:25:15.660 style would sound like? And of Savannah Weaver. 00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:17.380 And of Savannah Weaver. Thanks for taking this 00:25:17.380 --> 00:25:19.140 deep dive with us. Keep listening. We'll see 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:19.619 you in the next one.