Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we are opening
up a file that is equal parts sawdust and microphone
foam. That's a good way to put it. We're looking
at a figure who is, let's be honest, a massive
bundle of contradictions. He's a guy who started
out, you know, digging ditches and cleaning carpets,
a literal blue collar tradesman. Right. who somehow
morphed into a Guinness World Record holder for
digital media and a New York Times bestselling
author. It is a fascinating trajectory. We're
talking about Adam Carolla. And what makes this
deep dive so interesting is that his career arc
really. I mean, it really mirrors the evolution
of modern media itself. It does. He goes from
terrestrial radio dominance to the Wild West
of early podcasting. And in doing so, he actually
helped build the infrastructure that allows us
to be having this conversation right now. Exactly.
I think a lot of people know him as that guy
from The Man Show or, you know, the loud voice
on Loveline. Sure, the sound bites. But when
you dig into the source material, the story is
about so much more than just telling jokes. It's
about tenacity. It's about carpentry. both literal
and metaphorical, and it is definitely about
controversy. He is certainly a polarizing figure,
but whether you find him hilarious or abrasive...
You can't deny the impact he's had on the independent
media landscape. No, you can't. So our mission
today is to really unpack that transition. How
does a broke boxing instructor become a podcast
mogul? And how does his specific worldview that
pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality
inform everything from his comedy to, you know,
his legal battles? So grab your hammer and your
headphones. Let's start at the very beginning.
And when I say the beginning, I mean a surprisingly
chaotic one. You'd expect a guy who is so obsessed
with. order and construction to come from a structured
background. But it was the exact opposite. The
complete opposite. Yeah. Adam Carolla was born
on May 27, 1964. No, even his birthplace is a
bit of a point of confusion in the records. Some
sources will tell you Los Angeles. Some say Philadelphia.
But he identifies very deeply with his San Fernando
Valley upbringing. That's his identity. That's
his brand. But the real chaos, as you said, it
starts with his family dynamic. Right. His parents
separated when he was young. And he has described
his home life as just, well, unstructured. There
wasn't a lot of guidance. And there is this hilarious.
but also kind of telling detail about his name.
He doesn't have a middle name. He does not. Or
at least he didn't legally have one to start.
And this is one of my favorite anecdotes from
the research. So he's a teenager, right? He's
filling out his driver's license application,
and he gets to the box for middle name and realizes,
I don't have one. Right. It's just blank. So
as a joke, a complete throwaway gag, he writes
in, Lakers. Like the basketball team. Joste Lakers.
Yeah. And the bureaucracy being what it is, I
mean, you'd think someone would flag that, right?
You would think. But no, nobody checked. It was
processed. So for a time, his legal identification,
his driver's license, essentially read Adam Lakers
Corolla. It's funny, but it also speaks to a
sort of neglect he felt growing up. He often
jokes that his parents were so checked out they
couldn't even be bothered to give him a middle
name. It's a joke. But there's a kernel of truth
in there. Oh, absolutely. That theme of being
checked out, as you put it, that seems to plague
his education, too. He went to schools in North
Hollywood, but he didn't actually get his high
school diploma on time. And not because he failed
his classes, which is what you'd probably assume.
Well, not entirely anyway. It was because of
a library fine. A library fine. Are you serious?
Completely serious. The school held his diploma
hostage over an unpaid library book. It's such
a petty, bureaucratic hurdle, but it's something
that just stuck with him. I can imagine. And
years later, in 2005, when he had his own TV
show called The Adam Carolla Project, he actually
went back to the school on camera, paid the fine,
and finally received the diploma decades later.
That is playing the long game. That is some serious
dedication to a bit. It is. But that resentment
toward, you know, arbitrary authority and bureaucracy,
that's a seed being planted right there. You
see it come up again and again throughout his
career. So he's struggling in school. His home
life is a mess. Where does he find stability?
Because he clearly found it somewhere that drive
had to come from, from someplace. Sports, specifically
football. He played Pop Warner for seven years,
and he credits that structure, the practice,
the clear rules, the physical exertion with basically
saving him from the chaos at home. It gave him
a framework. It did. And he wasn't just a benchwarmer.
He was actually a standout player at North Hollywood
High. The records show he was first team offensive
line in the Central Valley League in 1981. Offensive
lineman. That makes so much sense. It's the grumwork.
Exactly. It's blocking. It's pushing. It's not
the glory position. It's not the quarterback.
But it's essential. You can't win without it.
And that mentality, that sort of head down, do
the work approach. carried over directly into
his early adulthood. We can call them the lost
years. The lost years, right. He's 18. He's living
on his own. He's on academic probation at a community
college. And he eventually just drops out to
enter the workforce. And not in entertainment.
I mean, not even close. No. He is cleaning carpets.
He is teaching traffic school. And most importantly,
he is working as a carpenter. He's working with
his hands. Yeah. And there is this great visual.
From the sources where he describes being absolutely
broke, just dirt poor, living with a bunch of
roommates. But they pooled all their money to
buy a 1963 Cadillac limousine. A very, very impractical
vehicle for a carpenter. Completely impractical.
Can you imagine showing up to a job site in that?
But it paints such a picture. Just these guys
cruising around the valley in a beat -up limo
trying to figure out lice. It does. But the carpentry
thing is so important. He wasn't just doing it
for a summer job. He did it for a long time.
He really identifies as a tradesman, as a builder.
He still does. He does. And that tradesman mentality?
You know, measure twice, cut once, build a solid
foundation is something he explicitly applies
to comedy later. He views jokes as construction
projects. They have a structure. They need to
be built correctly to hold weight. If the foundation
is weak, the whole thing collapses. So how do
we get from the construction site to the radio
station? Because that is a massive, massive leap.
It's not a logical career progression. No, it
was pure serendipity. It's 1994. Carolla is still
working construction, but he's also working as
a boxing instructor on the side, another physical
discipline trade. And the biggest morning radio
show in Los Angeles on KROQ, Kevin and Bean,
is doing a stunt. This is the famous Blida and
Riseta. That's the one, exactly. They have their
on -air personality, Jimmy the Sports Guy, who
is preparing to box another radio personality.
in a charity match. And they needed someone to
train him. They needed a trainer. And Carolla,
who was a fan of the show, volunteered. He just
called in. And Jimmy the sports guy turns out
to be. Jimmy Kimmel. Talk about a meeting of
the minds. A sliding doors moment. It changed
everything for both of them, really. They hit
it off immediately. Carolla wasn't trained to
be a star. He wasn't auditioning. He was just
being himself. Funny, loud, incredibly opinionated.
And Kimmel, who has a great eye for talent, recognized
it instantly. He saw something there. He did,
and this led to Carolla getting a recurring spot
on the show as a character named Mr. Burcham.
Oh, Mr. Burcham, the cranky, disgruntled woodshop
teacher. Which was barely a character, let's
be honest. It was essentially Carolla channeling
all his frustrations with the education system
and what he saw as the softening of society filtered
through the lens of a woodshop teacher who thinks
everyone is an idiot. It's the classic right
which you know. He knew woodshop and he knew
he was annoyed. And people loved it. That character
resonated deeply with the KROQ audience. It got
him his foot in the door. And once that door
was open, he kicked it down. This leads us directly
to the Loveline era. A huge era. Loveline. I
mean, for a certain generation, this was the
Bible of late -night radio. You had Dr. Drew
Pinsky, the board -certified physician, thoughtful,
calm. And then you had Adam Carolla. It's the
oddest couple imaginable. It was a classic Iden
superego dynamic. It was perfect radio. Dr. Drew
was the reserved, thoughtful professional trying
to give legitimate medical and relationship advice.
And Carolla was the everyman. He was the guy
who would interrupt a serious medical diagnosis
to make a fart joke or go on a 20 -minute rant
about how traffic lights are timed inefficiently.
But that's why it works so well, right? If it
was just Dr. Drew, it's a medical lecture. It's
informative, but maybe a little dry. He was the
chaos factor. He was. He served as a counterweight.
Critics at the time described him as a toned
down version of Howard Stern minus the huge ego.
He brought this relatable blue collar frustration
to the airwaves. He mocked the radio format itself
while he was on the air. He hated the tropes.
Hated them. The morning zoo cliches, the goofy
sound effects, the weather reports, the traffic
updates. He would deconstruct them live on air.
He'd rant about why a traffic report telling
you there's traffic on the 405 at 5 p .m. is
the most useless piece of information imaginable.
Okay, let's unpack this. That became his whole
vibe. He would take something incredibly small
and just drill down into it until it was absurd
and hilarious. But it wasn't all smooth sailing.
He has a history of, well, stepping on toes.
He does. And an early example of this comes from
the Loveland period. In 2003, the show was actually
canceled in Hawaii. Canceled, like... just in
that one market. Just in Hawaii. Corolla made
some disparaging remarks about Hawaiians during
a broadcast, calling them dumb and inbred and
a bunch of other things. The local station, KPOI,
pulled the plug immediately. There was a huge
backlash. So that was an early indicator that
his unfiltered style had real world consequences.
A very clear one. But on the mainland, his stock
was just rising and rising. And in 2006, he gets
the call. The big one. The biggest one. Howard
Stern is leaving terrestrial radio for satellite.
It leaves this massive void in morning drive
time radio. And who do they call to fill that
slot in Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco,
these huge markets? The carpenter. The carpenter.
It was a massive promotion. The Adam Carolla
Show on Terrestrial Radio. He wasn't the sidekick
anymore. He was the anchor. He was the guy. And
he was so convincing, so authentic as this cynical
radio host that Hollywood actually started studying
him for parts. That's right. The actor Gerard
Butler, he was preparing for a role in the movie
The Ugly Truth, where he plays a cynical talk
radio host. So he actually sat in on Carolla's
show for days just to study him, to capture that
specific brand of masculine, slightly jaded,
rant -heavy radio personality. But the terrestrial
radio era had an expiration date on it. It did,
and not because of ratings necessarily, but because
of the shifting sands of the industry itself.
In February 2009, the flagship station for his
show, KLSX in Los Angeles, flipped formats overnight.
Flipped formats, which means... So you went from
talk radio to top 40 music. So on Friday, you're
hosting a morning show for millions of people.
On Monday, they're playing Katy Perry on a loop.
effectively yes he was fired the entire staff
was let go the show was just gone and this moment
february 2009 this is the pivot point this is
the whole story this is where the empire part
of the title comes in because most people in
his position would have immediately gotten their
agent on the phone scrambled for another radio
gig in another market right they'd try to get
back in the system but carolla did something
completely different he didn't try to get back
in the system he decided to build his own he
went to his garage Or his home office, I guess.
He launched the Adam Carolla podcast literally
days after being fired. February 23rd, 2009.
His radio show was canceled on a Friday. The
first podcast was up the following Monday. The
speed is incredible. And the numbers were instantaneous.
We have to really put ourselves back in 2009.
This is early for podcasting. People were still
explaining to their parents what an RSS feed
was. It was a niche medium. And yet, he gets
250 ,000 downloads in the first 24 hours. A quarter
of a million. By the third episode, he is the
number one podcast on iTunes in the US and Canada.
In that debut week, he hit 1 .6 million downloads.
Those are numbers. that major networks kill for
today, let alone in 2009 when maybe, what, 10
% of the population even knew what a podcast
was? It proved something fundamental. It proved
that the audience wasn't loyal to the radio station.
They were loyal to him. He had built what he
called his pirate ship. He owned the content.
He owned the distribution. He owned the relationship
with the audience. And it just kept growing.
Exponentially. By May of 2011, so just over two
years later, the show officially broke the Guinness
World Record for the most downloaded podcast.
Guinness World Record. Yeah. We're talking 59
,574 ,843 unique downloads between March 2009
and March 2011. That is just staggering. He beat
out Ricky Gervais, who was the previous record
holder. He did. He proved that an independent
creator with a loyal audience could build a media
entity bigger than what the traditional gatekeepers
could offer. But that kind of... The success,
that kind of disruption, it attracts attention.
And not always the good kind. We have to talk
about the patent troll. This is a critical chapter,
and it's not just for Carolla's story. It's for
the medium of podcasting as a whole. In 2013,
a company called Personal Audio sued Carolla's
production company, Lotsy Digital. And what were
they claiming? That they invented ranting into
a microphone? Close. They claimed they owned
the patent for episodic content distribution.
Essentially, they had a very vague patent from
the pre -internet era about distributing audio
in a series, like on cassette tapes. You're kidding.
No. And they were arguing that any podcaster
who released episodes in a sequence with a playlist
function was infringing on their patent and owed
them licensing fees. So they were trying to put
a toll booth on the entire internet. They were
saying, if you create a show that has an episode
one, an episode two, and an episode three, you
owe us money. Precisely. They had already gone
after other big names in media and a lot of companies
just settled. It's cheaper to pay the troll a
few thousand or even a few hundred thousand dollars
than it is to fight a multimillion dollar legal
battle. But Carolla said no. Carolla said no.
This is where that stubborn offensive lineman
mentality comes right back to the forefront.
He viewed it as an existential fight for the
entire industry. He saw it as extortion. Just
fighting for himself. No, he was very clear about
that. He went public with it. He called them
out as patent trolls on his show. He refused
to settle. And he did something remarkable. He
crowdfunded his legal defense. He went to the
listeners. He went directly to his audience and
said, this isn't just about my show. It's about
every podcast you listen to. Help us fight this.
And they did. Listeners contributed over $475
,000 to his legal fund called Fund Anything.
Wow. That just shows the incredible connection
he had built with his audience. They weren't
just listeners. They were constituents. They
were investors in the idea. And it worked. The
public pressure was immense. In August of 2014,
Personal Audio dropped the suit against him.
So he won. He did. And he didn't stop there.
He actually countersued to try and invalidate
their patent entirely to take the weapon out
of their hands so they couldn't go after smaller
independent podcasters. They eventually settled
that with a quiet period. But Carolla had made
his point. He positioned himself as the defender
of the medium. So if he had folded, if he had
just paid them off. It could have set a precedent
that would have made podcasting prohibitively
expensive for independent creators. The whole
landscape could look very, very different today.
So while he's fighting these huge legal battles
and breaking world records, he's also keeping
a very active foot in television. We can't ignore
the visual side of his career. No, and it really
runs parallel to the audio work starting back
in the late 90s. The most famous project, of
course, is The Man Show. The Man Show. Ziggy
zaggy, ziggy zaggy, oi oi oi oi. This was late
90s, early 2000s Comedy Central. He co -created
it with his partner in crime, Jimmy Kimmel. It
was a celebration of, well, unapologetic masculinity.
It was beer, it was juggies, it was girls on
trampolines, it was bathroom humor. It definitely
has a specific... Looking back at it now through
a 2026 lens is an interesting experience. It
is. At the time, it was a massive hit. Critics
often called it sexist, and you can see why.
It's very much a product of its time, that frat
pack era of comedy. But it was essential in establishing
Carolla's brand. He wasn't... Trying to be highbrower
sophisticated, he was the voice of the guy in
the cheap seats. He also did Crank Yankers, which
was another Kimmel collaboration. Yes, which
actually revived the Mr. Burcham character, this
time in puppet form. That show was basically
puppets making real prank phone calls. It sounds
ridiculous on paper. But it was huge. It had
successful runs on Comedy Central and later on
MTV, too. It was a cultural touchstone for a
little while. It was, but what's really interesting
to me is his foray into reality TV because he
seems like the last person who would do it. He
did Dancing with the Stars in 2008. I have to
stop you there. Adam Carolla, the carpenter,
the boxer, the guy who rants about fixing your
own sprinklers on Dancing with the Stars. It
went about as well as you'd expect. He was eliminated
pretty early, I think in the fourth week. Shocker.
But in true Carolla fashion, he went out on his
own terms. His final dance was a Paso Doble.
He rode a unicycle across the dance floor. A
unicycle in a Paso Doble. That is. Yeah. That's
a choice. That's a statement. It was. And then
there was the celebrity apprentice in 2012. He
was on the show and was fired by Donald Trump
in week four. What was the reason for his firing?
The task was to create a presentation for a new
car. Trump felt that Carolla didn't properly
utilize his teammate, the racing legend Mario
Andretti, during the presentation. Which is deeply
ironic because Carolla is a massive, massive
car guy. We'll get to that. It just seems like
he struggles in these environments where he has
to play by someone else's rules. He does much
better when he's the boss. Or when he's in his
element. Which brings us to the show, Catch a
Contractor. Right, on Spike TV. This was the
perfect synthesis of all his skills. He used
his legitimate background in construction to
ambush and expose unethical contractors who were
ripping off homeowners. He had the authority.
He wasn't just a TV host playing a part. He could
walk onto a shoddy job site and say, that's not
up to code, or you didn't use the right materials
here. Exactly. He wasn't just a host. He was
an expert witness with a camera crew. It was
a perfect fit. He also moved into film. And not
just doing cameos. He wrote. produced and starred
in a movie called The Hammer. This is a bit of
a hidden gem in his filmography. It's a semi
-autobiographical independent film from 2007.
He plays a guy who's nearing 40, works in construction,
but was a talented amateur boxer in his youth
and decides to give it one last shot. Sounds
familiar. Very. But it was well -received. It
got an 80 % on Rotten Tomatoes. And again, with
the authenticity, it was filmed in a gym that
he actually helped build with his own two hands
years before. He also got into crowdfunding his
films, much like he did his legal... He did.
He raised funds for Road Hard, a movie about
an aging road comic struggling after his TV and
movie career dries up. Another semi autobiographical
theme. You see a pattern here. And he also co
-directed and produced documentaries which show
a different side of him winning. The Racing Life
of Paul Newman. The 24 -Hour War, which is about
the Ford versus Ferrari rivalry at Le Mans. These
are serious, well -researched films. They reflect
his deep obsession with mechanical excellence,
with engineering, with history. It shows that
he isn't just a comedian. He's a historian of
the things he loves. And we have to mention the
books. He's a multiple New York Times bestselling
author. With titles like... In 50 years, we'll
all be chicks, not Taco Bell material, and I'm
your emotional support animal. Yeah. They reflect
his persona perfectly. But the writing process
is unique. Right. He doesn't sit down at a keyboard
and type. No, he hates typing. He openly admits
these books are largely dictated. He rants into
a microphone, records his thoughts and stories,
and a ghostwriter helps structure it into prose.
It's essentially his podcast in book form. It's
efficient. You have to give him that. But, okay,
let's pivot to the elephant in the room. His
worldview. You cannot talk about Adam Carolla
for more than five minutes without talking about
his politics and the controversies. It's completely
central to his brand. And it's complex. He often
describes himself as a mix of Republican and
Libertarian. If you're not hurting anyone, you
should be able to just do what you want to do.
Yeah. That seems to be the core philosophy. That's
the core of it. Yeah. He aligns with conservatives
on things like secure borders and opposing what
he calls the welfare state or freebie programs.
He is huge on personal responsibility. If you
fail, it's your fault. If you succeed, it's because
of your merit. The get up and go to work mentality.
But then on the other hand, he lines with liberals
on a lot of other things. Completely. He is on
the advisory board of the Marijuana Policy Project.
He's been a vocal advocate for legalizing weed
for years. He's against automatic weapons. He
supports nuclear power to charge electric cars.
And he's a staunch atheist. So he doesn't fit
neatly into the Christian right box at all. Not
at all. But he has found himself in hot water
plenty of times over his comments. Repeatedly.
The list is long. A major one was in 2012. He
gave an interview to the New York Post where
he flat out said, and I'm quoting, dudes are
funnier than chicks. Oof. That is the third rail
of comedy right there. It sparked a massive,
massive backlash from comedians and the public.
He later defended it by saying the media oversimplified
his point, that he's talking about the different
styles of comedy, but the quote itself was pretty
direct and that's what landed. He also faced
criticism from GLAA. He did. For comments he
made about the LGBT community, specifically making
fun of a petition to have Bert and Ernie from
Sesame Street get married, it drew condemnation
and calls for an apology. And there was an incident
involving the Philippines? In 2010, yeah. He
was talking about the boxer Manny Pacquiao and
called him a fucking idiot and then made some
pretty disparaging remarks about the country
as a whole regarding sex tourism. That one was
so intense he actually did issue an apology via
Twitter. Which seems rare for him. He tends to
double down rather than apologize, doesn't he?
Usually. He views himself as a warrior against
cancel culture. He argues that we shouldn't judge
past behaviors like teachers paddling students
in schools by today's standards, that the world
has gotten too sensitive. And he put his money
where his mouth is on that one. He made a whole
documentary about it. He did. No Safe Spaces,
which he co -starred in with the conservative
talk show host Dennis Prager. It specifically
attacks the concept of political correctness
and safe spaces on college campuses. It cemented
his position as a major voice in that cultural
debate. And very recently. in January of 2026,
he made headlines again for leaning into that
role. Yes. A major performing arts venue was
controversially renamed the Donald Trump and
John F. Kennedy Memorial Center for the Arts.
A lot of other performers canceled their appearances
in protest due to the political association with
Trump. But Carolla said yes. Carolla agreed to
appear. It fits his brand perfectly, though,
defying the progressive orthodoxy going where
others won't. It does. And it raises that central
question. Is he becoming more political as he
gets older? Or is the culture just shifting in
a way that makes his long -held views seem more
radical? That's the big question to unpack. It's
a fascinating dynamic. Let's shift gears literally.
We touched on it with the Trump firing. But the
man loves cars. This isn't a casual hobby. No,
he is a serious, legitimate collector. The sources
say he owns over 20 vehicles and not just shiny
new Ferraris. He likes vintage race cars with
history, with provenance. He owns some of Paul
Newman's actual race cars. The Paul Newman connection
is amazing. He directed a documentary on him
and he owns the cars. He does. And there's a
great story involving the show Pawn Stars from
just a couple of years ago in 2020. What happened?
He brought his 1972 Paul Newman Ford Escort race
car onto the show. He was thinking of selling
it, and his asking price was around $250 ,000.
But the show's experts evaluated it and told
him it was actually worth up to $300 ,000. So
after learning it was more valuable than he thought,
he decided to keep it. It shows he knows the
value of what he has, and he's not just going
to give it away. And he owns Lamborghinis, but
the really rare ones, right? The Muras. He owns
two of them. For anyone who doesn't know, these
are incredibly rare, incredibly beautiful supercars
from the 1960s. Many consider them the first
true supercar. And he even lent one to the Peterson
Automotive Museum in Los Angeles for an exhibit.
It's another example of the carpenter side of
him. It's not just about the flash. He appreciates
the history, the design, the engineering. Absolutely.
It's about how things are built. Let's look at
the personal side of his life, which he's been
pretty open about on his show. He was married
for a long time. He was. He married Lynette Paradise
in 2002. They have twins, a daughter, Natalia,
and a son, Sonny. But they announced their divorce
in May of 2021. They did. After 19 years of marriage,
he talked about it extensively on the podcast.
It was obviously a very difficult period. That's
a tough blow for anyone to go through, especially
so publicly. It is. And for a guy who often preached
about the importance of family and stability
as the bedrock of society, it was a personal
challenge to have to navigate that in the public
eye. And on the faith front. You mentioned he's
an atheist. Yes. The sources say he was raised
in a light form of Buddhism by his parents, but
he completely rejected it as he got older. He's
a staunch, outspoken atheist. He believes in
the here and now and what you can see and touch
and build with your hands. He did receive a major
honor recently, though, which must have been
a validating moment. A huge one. In 2025, he
received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame
for his contributions to radio. That really feels
like a full circle moment. A kid who couldn't
get his high school diploma because of a library
fine now has his name permanently embedded in
terrazzo on Hollywood Boulevard. It absolutely
validates the entire journey from the construction
site to a public access TV show to the Walk of
Fame. It's a remarkable American story, however
you feel about him. So. When we put all these
pieces together, what does it all mean? When
we look at Adam Carolla, what are we really looking
at? I think we're looking at a bridge. He is
the bridge between the old world of blue collar,
manual labor, and the new world of digital media.
He's the guy who monetized ranting. He took the
frustration of the common man, the guy stuck
in traffic, the guy dealing with a lazy contractor,
and he packaged it into a digital format. And
he proved you could build a business empire on
it without a corporate overlord. Exactly. He
cut out the middleman. And maybe most importantly,
he literally fought the legal battles to keep
that bridge open for everybody else who wanted
to cross it. So whether you agree with his politics
or his jokes, if you're listening to this right
now on a podcast app. You owe a small debt to
the legal precedent he helped set against those
patent trolls. He made the road a little bit
safer for all the independent creators who came
after him. That's a really powerful takeaway.
So here's a provocative thought to leave you
with. Adam Carolla started his career on The
Man Show, surrounded by beer and trampolines.
It was pure, unapologetic, juvenile escapism.
Right. Now, he makes serious documentaries about
free speech in no safe spaces and appears at
highly politicized venues. So the question is,
how much of that evolution is a change in Adam
Carolla himself and how much of it is a change
in the culture around him? Did he move to the
right, or did the center move so far to the left
that it left him standing in the exact same spot,
suddenly looking like a radical? That is something
to chew on. From the carpenter shop to the podcast
charts, thanks for diving deep with us. Keep
asking questions. See you next time.