WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.980 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. I hope you're 00:00:01.980 --> 00:00:04.320 ready because today we are looking at a stack 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:07.139 of sources that, well, they feel less like a 00:00:07.139 --> 00:00:10.140 history lesson and more like a script for a tragedy. 00:00:10.339 --> 00:00:13.539 A tragedy written by someone with a very dark 00:00:13.539 --> 00:00:17.039 sense of humor. Exactly. We are unpacking the 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:20.239 life of a man who is essentially the alpha and 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:23.120 the omega of the American war in Vietnam. It 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:25.120 really is a narrative loop. We're talking about 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.320 doing von Mins, but, you know, everyone knew 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:29.920 him as Big Min. Right. And if you look at the 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:32.700 timeline, it's almost too perfect. He is the 00:00:32.700 --> 00:00:34.960 general who lights the match that burns down 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:37.719 the old regime in 1963. Kicking off the whole 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.539 era of coup. And then 12 years later, he's the 00:00:40.539 --> 00:00:42.719 exact same man who walks into the room, turns 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:44.979 off the lights, and surrenders the country in 00:00:44.979 --> 00:00:47.560 1975. And that's the paradox that really jumps 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:49.179 out at me. You have a general who leads this 00:00:49.179 --> 00:00:52.549 violent coup, which... Well, that implies ambition, 00:00:52.829 --> 00:00:55.109 right? A real hunger for power. Of course. But 00:00:55.109 --> 00:00:57.310 then you have the same guy who, according to 00:00:57.310 --> 00:00:59.170 all these profiles, would apparently rather be 00:00:59.170 --> 00:01:01.990 pruning his orchids than actually run the country 00:01:01.990 --> 00:01:04.189 he just took over. That contradiction is the 00:01:04.189 --> 00:01:07.750 core of his life. Was he a reluctant hero? A 00:01:07.750 --> 00:01:11.150 lazy opportunist? Or maybe a realist who saw 00:01:11.150 --> 00:01:13.090 the writing on the wall before anyone else did? 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:15.480 To understand that, I guess we have to look at 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.640 the man himself. The nickname Big Min wasn't 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.219 a metaphor? No, not at all. The sources make 00:01:21.219 --> 00:01:24.500 a huge point of this. In 1950s Vietnam, the average 00:01:24.500 --> 00:01:29.340 soldier was much slighter. Min was a literal 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:33.219 giant. Six feet tall, nearly 200 pounds. He physically 00:01:33.219 --> 00:01:36.180 dominated every room he walked into, which creates 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:39.280 this natural assumption of leadership. It's a 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.379 biological bias, I suppose. You look to the biggest 00:01:41.379 --> 00:01:43.060 guy in the room. He looked like a strong man. 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:45.980 But the mission of this deep dive is to figure 00:01:45.980 --> 00:01:49.799 out if that physical presence was masking a sort 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:51.780 of psychological hesitation. So let's rewind. 00:01:51.980 --> 00:01:55.000 Before he was the orca general or the coup leader, 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.180 he was actually a legitimate war hero. He had 00:01:57.180 --> 00:02:00.519 scars. Very literal scars. Min was born in 1916 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:03.180 in the Mekong Delta. Came from a wealthy background, 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:05.959 which got him a top -tier French education. And 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:07.700 a little bit of trivia, he was a schoolmate of 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:10.860 Norodom Sihanouk. The very same. The future king 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:13.419 of Cambodia. So Min is part of this colonial 00:02:13.419 --> 00:02:16.719 elite. He joins the French colonial army in 1940. 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:19.620 And this is where we get the first real glimpse 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:23.280 of his incredible physical resilience. This is 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.319 during World War II, right? The Japanese have 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:27.699 invaded. And the Japanese occupation was brutal. 00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:31.259 Min was captured by the military police. I mean, 00:02:31.259 --> 00:02:33.729 they were notorious for torture. Absolutely. 00:02:33.930 --> 00:02:36.150 He was beaten so severely he lost almost all 00:02:36.150 --> 00:02:38.330 of his teeth. The notes mention he had only one 00:02:38.330 --> 00:02:41.210 tooth left. Just one. But here's what's so telling 00:02:41.210 --> 00:02:43.729 about his character at that age. He didn't hide 00:02:43.729 --> 00:02:47.590 it. He would smile. This big, broad smile. Just 00:02:47.590 --> 00:02:51.240 to display that single tooth. Wow. That's a very 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.719 specific kind of flex. It is. He was using it 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:55.819 as a psychological weapon, a badge of honor that 00:02:55.819 --> 00:02:58.280 basically said, I survived this. You can't break 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.780 me. So you have this single tooth hero. Fast 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:03.060 forward to 1955. The French are gone. The country 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:06.419 split. And Ningo Indian is trying to consolidate 00:03:06.419 --> 00:03:09.819 power in the south. But Saigon is. Well, it's 00:03:09.819 --> 00:03:12.039 chaos. It was the Wild West. You had the Binchuin 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.240 terrorizing the city. And we should clarify, 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:17.099 the Binchuin wasn't just like a crime syndicate 00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:19.280 in the shadows. This was more like a pirate army, 00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:21.539 wasn't it? Oh, absolutely. It was a paramilitary 00:03:21.539 --> 00:03:23.939 group that openly controlled the police, the 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:28.039 gambling, the opium trade. They ran Saigon. And 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:30.219 then you had the Hoao, another private army. 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:32.719 So Dim's government is barely hanging on. He 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.659 needs a hammer. And he sends in big men. And 00:03:35.659 --> 00:03:38.300 Min delivers. Incredibly effective. He leads 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:40.979 the army into street combat, dismantles the Bin 00:03:40.979 --> 00:03:43.860 Sien, and basically hands the city back to Dim. 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.219 Which leads to this moment of peak favor, the 00:03:47.219 --> 00:03:51.219 kiss. Yes. After a victory parade, Min drives 00:03:51.219 --> 00:03:54.620 up in his jeep, the conquering hero. And President 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:57.039 Dim, who is usually very stiff and formal. A 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:59.280 bit distant, yeah. He was so relieved, he just 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:02.199 embraces Min and kisses him on both cheeks right 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:03.960 there in front of the cameras. But in the world 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.360 of authoritarian politics, being the conquering 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.120 hero is a dangerous job. Put the target on your 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:13.379 back. Dim was famously paranoid. He looked at 00:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.290 Min and didn't see a loyal general. He saw a 00:04:16.290 --> 00:04:18.730 rival who was more popular than he was. So what 00:04:18.730 --> 00:04:21.029 does he do? He starts stripping him of his power. 00:04:21.230 --> 00:04:24.250 It's the classic promotion to nowhere. Right. 00:04:24.350 --> 00:04:26.790 He makes him presidential military advisor. Sounds 00:04:26.790 --> 00:04:29.610 impressive. But historians say he was basically 00:04:29.610 --> 00:04:32.730 in charge of three telephones. No troops, no 00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:35.750 command. He was in a gilded cage. And for a man 00:04:35.750 --> 00:04:39.350 with means pride, that was humiliating. So the 00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:42.889 resentment builds. And by 1963, the whole situation 00:04:42.889 --> 00:04:45.959 is melting down. The Buddhist crisis. Monks on 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:50.180 fire. The U .S. is losing faith in draft. Which 00:04:50.180 --> 00:04:52.120 brings us to one of the weirdest scenes in this 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:55.060 whole story. The tennis match. It sounds like 00:04:55.060 --> 00:04:58.740 a spy movie. It really does. It's late 63. McNamara 00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:01.579 and General Maxwell Taylor fly to Saigon. They 00:05:01.579 --> 00:05:03.720 want to know if a coup is being planned. So they 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.600 set up a doubles match with men. I mean, you 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:08.600 can just picture it. These guys in white shorts 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.240 sweating in the heat. And the Americans are just 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:14.029 sort of. lobbing questions over the net. Trying 00:05:14.029 --> 00:05:15.769 to get him to talk treason. They were dropping 00:05:15.769 --> 00:05:18.550 heavy hints, but Min, he just played the game. 00:05:18.790 --> 00:05:21.149 Said absolutely nothing. They left the court 00:05:21.149 --> 00:05:23.050 totally bewildered. Couldn't read him at all. 00:05:23.269 --> 00:05:25.209 Which is funny because later he complained that 00:05:25.209 --> 00:05:27.470 Washington didn't support him. He was cautious. 00:05:28.170 --> 00:05:31.889 But that silence didn't last. November 1st, 1963, 00:05:32.310 --> 00:05:36.670 the coup begins. Min is the ringleader. And this 00:05:36.670 --> 00:05:38.529 is where the story gets really dark. We're talking 00:05:38.529 --> 00:05:40.850 about President Diem and his brother Nu. Right. 00:05:41.209 --> 00:05:43.649 The coup is successful. The brothers escape. 00:05:44.029 --> 00:05:46.870 But then they agree to surrender. The assumption, 00:05:47.110 --> 00:05:48.829 certainly the American one, was that they'd be 00:05:48.829 --> 00:05:51.269 exiled. Get them on a plane to France, out of 00:05:51.269 --> 00:05:54.189 the way. But Min sends an armored personnel carrier 00:05:54.189 --> 00:05:57.269 to pick them up. And he sends his personal bodyguard. 00:05:57.470 --> 00:06:00.889 And this is the moment. This is the moment. Witnesses 00:06:00.889 --> 00:06:03.509 at the headquarters. They reported seeing Min 00:06:03.509 --> 00:06:06.629 give a specific gesture to his bodyguard. He 00:06:06.629 --> 00:06:09.399 held up two fingers on his right hand. Two fingers 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:11.379 for two brothers. That was the interpretation. 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:14.879 Kill them both. And the result was just brutal. 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:18.180 They were killed inside that APC, not just shot, 00:06:18.220 --> 00:06:21.439 but stabbed, mutilated. It was a gangland hit. 00:06:21.579 --> 00:06:23.600 There's a conversation recorded, right, between 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.120 Min and another general. Yes. General Tom Fanone 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.639 confronts him. He asks, why are they dead? And 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:31.540 Min's reply is just chilling. He says in this 00:06:31.540 --> 00:06:34.459 haughty, dismissive tone, and what does it matter 00:06:34.459 --> 00:06:38.180 that they are dead? What does it matter? It suggests 00:06:38.180 --> 00:06:40.699 he just saw it as a practical problem. The problem's 00:06:40.699 --> 00:06:43.639 gone, so why complain about how? It shows a complete 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.879 lack of political foresight. He thought killing 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.680 Dim cut the head off the snake, but instead he 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:52.759 created a martyr. He terrified his own colleagues. 00:06:53.139 --> 00:06:55.819 So now Minna is in charge. He has the power. 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:58.360 And this is where the orca general persona really 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:00.639 takes over. You'd think he'd be a ruthless dictator. 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:05.319 But the sources say he was. Well, bored. A model 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:07.939 of lethargy, that was the official U .S. assessment. 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:10.040 It's like the chase was more interesting than 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.819 the catch. It seems that way. He lasted just 00:07:12.819 --> 00:07:14.920 three months, and in that time, he didn't really 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.339 do any governing. His daily schedule reads like 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:21.519 a retiree's. Mahjong, tennis, tea parties. Tending 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:24.420 to his exotic birds. He actually complained to 00:07:24.420 --> 00:07:26.980 a reporter that being head of state meant he 00:07:26.980 --> 00:07:28.860 didn't have enough time to grow his orchids. 00:07:28.939 --> 00:07:31.279 You can't make that up. But was it just laziness, 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:33.579 or was it also the structure they created? It 00:07:33.579 --> 00:07:36.060 was definitely structural, too. They set up a 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:39.819 council of 12 generals to run things. And, crucially, 00:07:40.019 --> 00:07:43.160 every single one had veto power. Oh, that's a 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.339 recipe for disaster. Total paralysis. So while 00:07:46.339 --> 00:07:48.540 they're debating in Saigon and Minh is watering 00:07:48.540 --> 00:07:51.180 his plants, the Viet Cong are just taking over 00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:53.259 the countryside. The whole security situation 00:07:53.259 --> 00:07:55.300 collapsed. And, of course, someone else sees 00:07:55.300 --> 00:08:00.800 a power vacuum. In January 1964, he's overthrown. 00:08:00.899 --> 00:08:04.050 By General Nguyen Khan. And this coup is almost 00:08:04.050 --> 00:08:05.889 a comedy compared to the last one. It was completely 00:08:05.889 --> 00:08:08.970 bloodless. Min was asleep, right? Woke up to 00:08:08.970 --> 00:08:11.290 find his house surrounded. And his first reaction 00:08:11.290 --> 00:08:14.290 wasn't fear. He thought it was a prank. A prank 00:08:14.290 --> 00:08:16.750 like, the boys are messing with me. Exactly. 00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:18.550 He thought some young officers were pulling a 00:08:18.550 --> 00:08:21.750 stunt. Shows just how disconnected he was. So 00:08:21.750 --> 00:08:24.750 Khan takes over. But he keeps Min around for 00:08:24.750 --> 00:08:27.889 a bit. Yeah, as a figurehead. Min was still popular. 00:08:28.189 --> 00:08:30.569 And the Americans liked him. But eventually the 00:08:30.569 --> 00:08:32.820 friction was too much. Ming had shipped off to 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:34.919 exile in Bangkok. Where he could finally dedicate 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:37.700 himself to tennis and gardening full -time. And 00:08:37.700 --> 00:08:40.399 he did. He lived there for years. And here's 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:42.799 a detail that says so much about his relationship 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:45.799 with the U .S. What's that? The CIA paid for 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:48.360 his dental bills while he was in exile. They 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:51.159 finally fixed his teeth. That's a powerful metaphor, 00:08:51.259 --> 00:08:53.179 isn't it? The U .S. is keeping him on the payroll, 00:08:53.379 --> 00:08:55.720 fixing his smile, just in case they need to pull 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.840 him off the bench. He was their plan B. He maintained 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:02.509 those connections. In 1971, he almost ran for 00:09:02.509 --> 00:09:05.509 president against Thieu, but he pulled out knowing 00:09:05.509 --> 00:09:07.509 the election was rigged. And this is when he 00:09:07.509 --> 00:09:09.789 starts talking about a third force. What did 00:09:09.789 --> 00:09:12.669 he mean by that? The idea was that Vietnam was 00:09:12.669 --> 00:09:16.490 trapped between two extremes. Hardline anti -communism 00:09:16.490 --> 00:09:19.809 and hardline communism. Mon believed there was 00:09:19.809 --> 00:09:21.929 a middle ground, a neutralist force that could 00:09:21.929 --> 00:09:24.789 reconcile the country. It sounds noble, but... 00:09:25.070 --> 00:09:27.690 Maybe a little naive, given the North's commitment 00:09:27.690 --> 00:09:30.870 to total victory. Very naive. But as the war 00:09:30.870 --> 00:09:33.490 dragged on, more people in Saigon started seeing 00:09:33.490 --> 00:09:36.590 Minh's third force as the only hope left. Maybe 00:09:36.590 --> 00:09:38.590 he's the only one the North will talk to. Which 00:09:38.590 --> 00:09:42.470 brings us to the nightmare of April 1975. The 00:09:42.470 --> 00:09:44.690 North Vietnamese army is just rolling south. 00:09:45.070 --> 00:09:48.049 President Thieu resigns and flees. The government 00:09:48.049 --> 00:09:51.169 is in total collapse. And suddenly, everyone 00:09:51.169 --> 00:09:54.259 turns to big Minh. It was a Hail Mary pass. The 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:56.360 politicians in Saigon thought, okay, Minh is 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:59.320 a moderate. He talks about reconciliation. And 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:02.779 there was one other huge factor, his family connections. 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.860 His brother was a general in the North Vietnamese 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:08.740 Army. A major general, yes. His younger brother, 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.320 Duong Van Nhat. I mean, that's incredible. Talk 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:13.340 about a complicated Thanksgiving. It gave them 00:10:13.340 --> 00:10:15.460 hope. They thought Minh could pick up the phone, 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.200 call his brother, and negotiate a ceasefire. 00:10:18.740 --> 00:10:21.519 So on April 28th, with artillery booming closer, 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.779 Minh is sworn in as president. For all of about 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:27.820 48 hours. And in those 48 hours, he realizes 00:10:27.820 --> 00:10:30.799 he has no cards left to play. The North wasn't 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:32.899 interested in talking. They wanted unconditional 00:10:32.899 --> 00:10:35.539 surrender. So he has a choice. Turn Saigon into 00:10:35.539 --> 00:10:38.340 a rubble pile or give up. And this is where his 00:10:38.340 --> 00:10:40.899 legacy gets really complicated. On the morning 00:10:40.899 --> 00:10:43.960 of April 30th, Min goes on the radio. He orders 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.340 a ceasefire to save the blood of our people. 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:49.379 He tells the army to lay down their arms. Let's 00:10:49.379 --> 00:10:52.240 paint that final scene. It's almost noon, April 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.120 30th. Minh and his cabinet are waiting in the 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:58.600 Independence Palace. Just waiting. Then the tanks 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:01.700 crash through the gates. Soldiers swarm the building. 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.340 Minh stands up. He tries to maintain some dignity, 00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:08.399 some formality. He says to the North Vietnamese 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.620 officer, we have been waiting for you so that 00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:12.820 we could turn over the government. He's trying 00:11:12.820 --> 00:11:16.519 to frame it as a transfer of power, a legal handover. 00:11:16.659 --> 00:11:19.480 Yeah. But the officer, Colonel Bu Van Tung. just 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:22.320 cuts him down with what is, I think, the most 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.480 devastating line of the whole war. What does 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:27.539 he say? He looks at Min and says, there is no 00:11:27.539 --> 00:11:29.919 question of your transferring power. Your power 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:31.940 has crumbled. You cannot give up what you do 00:11:31.940 --> 00:11:33.799 not have. You cannot give up what you do not 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:35.840 have. That's just absolute erasure. It's not 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.080 a defeat. It's a declaration that you never even 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.259 existed. It stripped away the last illusion. 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:43.700 Min was taken into custody. Now, usually this 00:11:43.700 --> 00:11:46.019 is where the defeated leader is executed or sent 00:11:46.019 --> 00:11:49.759 to a camp for decades, but not Min. Surprisingly, 00:11:49.779 --> 00:11:52.759 no. He was held for a few days, then allowed 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:55.879 to return to his villa. He lived there in seclusion 00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:58.159 for eight years. Back to the birds and the orchids. 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:01.039 Exactly. He just kept his head down. Maybe his 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:02.679 brother helped, or maybe the communists just 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:04.940 didn't see him as a threat anymore. In 1983, 00:12:05.299 --> 00:12:08.000 he was allowed to emigrate. He ended up in Pasadena, 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.299 California. But when he died in 2001, the reaction 00:12:11.299 --> 00:12:13.320 in the Vietnamese -American community was... 00:12:14.019 --> 00:12:17.940 Not warm. No, it was very bitter. For many refugees, 00:12:18.259 --> 00:12:20.840 he was the man who opened the gates to the enemy. 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.019 They blamed him for losing their country. But 00:12:24.019 --> 00:12:26.059 you have to look at the other side. What if he 00:12:26.059 --> 00:12:28.740 hadn't surrendered? That's the question. Saigon 00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:30.559 would have been destroyed. Tens of thousands 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.919 more would have died. So there's a strong argument 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:36.899 that his realism in those final hours was an 00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:39.580 act of mercy. He saved the city by giving up 00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:41.519 the country. It brings us back to that question 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.139 of leadership. We celebrate the never -surrender 00:12:44.139 --> 00:12:46.899 types. But sometimes, maybe leadership is knowing 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:49.080 when the game is over. And that's the thought 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:50.899 I want to leave with you. We call him Big Min 00:12:50.899 --> 00:12:53.779 for his size. But his real legacy is about a 00:12:53.779 --> 00:12:56.340 different kind of weight. Was he a failure because 00:12:56.340 --> 00:12:59.399 he lacked the will to fight? Or was he the only 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:01.720 one brave enough to accept reality and save what 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.139 could be saved? Was the surrender his greatest 00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:08.000 failure? Or his one true act of service? History 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.620 is rarely black and white. and big men lived 00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:13.220 his whole life in the grayest of areas. A giant 00:13:13.220 --> 00:13:16.100 man with a single tooth, a love for orchids, 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.840 and the burden of ending a 30 -year war. Thanks 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:20.600 for joining us on this deep dive. We'll see you 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:21.000 next time.