WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.600 Okay, I have to start this deep dive with a quote 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:05.660 that honestly has probably caused a few arguments 00:00:05.660 --> 00:00:08.019 in your living room, or at least a confused glance 00:00:08.019 --> 00:00:10.140 or two during a Super Bowl commercial break. 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:16.160 When you see those four letters, V -R -B -O, 00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:18.839 how do you actually say them in your head? Ah, 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:22.539 yes. It is the great pronunciation debate of 00:00:22.539 --> 00:00:25.100 the last decade. It's sort of the GIF versus 00:00:25.100 --> 00:00:27.660 G of the travel industry. Right. Because for 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:31.339 the longest time, I was strictly a VRBO person. 00:00:31.699 --> 00:00:33.560 It's an acronym. You spell it out. It stands 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:36.060 for something very specific. It did. But then 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.679 almost overnight, it felt like the entire world 00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:40.799 and, you know, all the commercials on my TV started 00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:44.380 saying VRBO. It felt like someone changed the 00:00:44.380 --> 00:00:46.520 rules of the English language when I wasn't looking. 00:00:46.859 --> 00:00:48.380 Well, effectively, they did change the rules, 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:50.939 or at least the massive corporation behind the 00:00:50.939 --> 00:00:53.320 name decided to rewrite the dictionary for their 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:56.119 own benefit. And honestly, that confusion, that 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:58.700 shift from saying the letters to saying a smooth, 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:01.479 marketable word is actually the perfect entry 00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:03.039 point for what we're talking about today. So 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:05.079 it's not just semantics. Not at all. I mean, 00:01:05.099 --> 00:01:07.560 that shift represents a fundamental change in 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:10.319 the business model. It represents the move from 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:13.099 a clunky kind of functional tool for homeowners 00:01:13.099 --> 00:01:18.060 to a sleek. lifestyle brand for mass consumers. 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.200 It mirrors the shift from the early internet 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.019 to the platform economy that dominates our lives 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:28.799 today. That is exactly what we are here to unpack. 00:01:29.140 --> 00:01:30.939 We are talking about the platform officially 00:01:30.939 --> 00:01:34.480 known as of 2019 anyway, as Vrbo. As Vrbo, yes. 00:01:35.299 --> 00:01:37.680 And while you might think of it... Just as that 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:39.760 app you use to book a beach house in Florida 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:42.859 or a cabin in the Smokies. This story is so much 00:01:42.859 --> 00:01:44.959 bigger. It really is. We're talking about a company 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:48.280 that started with a guy in a garage in 1995 trying 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.040 to rent a single ski condo. It ended up being 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.719 a multi -billion dollar piece of the Expedia 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:55.799 Group empire. It is a fascinating trajectory. 00:01:56.060 --> 00:01:58.200 It's a case study in scaling. You have the humble 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:00.719 beginnings, the massive acquisitions, the rebrands. 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.920 But you also have the darker side of the platform 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:05.980 economy that we really need to scrutinize today. 00:02:06.409 --> 00:02:08.490 Oh, we're going there. We have to talk about 00:02:08.490 --> 00:02:10.849 the controversies. We've got stacks of documents 00:02:10.849 --> 00:02:13.669 here, corporate history, details on their tech 00:02:13.669 --> 00:02:16.469 integration, reports on lawsuits, and some pretty 00:02:16.469 --> 00:02:19.129 hairy customer service nightmares that happened 00:02:19.129 --> 00:02:20.930 during the pandemic. Yeah, we're going to look 00:02:20.930 --> 00:02:23.310 at the fights over refunds, the really unsettling 00:02:23.310 --> 00:02:26.069 stories about safety and hidden cameras, and 00:02:26.069 --> 00:02:28.669 the massive legal battles with major cities like 00:02:28.669 --> 00:02:32.000 Los Angeles. Our mission today. is to trace the 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.719 evolution of the vacation rental market through 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:37.939 the lens of this one pioneer. We want to understand, 00:02:38.219 --> 00:02:42.240 how did we get from a single ski condo in Colorado 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.139 to a global giant that's reshaping neighborhoods? 00:02:45.500 --> 00:02:47.479 And crucially, what happens when that by -owner 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:49.360 spirit, which is literally what the name stood 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:51.680 for, gets swallowed up by a massive corporate 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:54.319 machine? Right. Does the soul of the project 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:57.120 survive the spreadsheet? So let's fire up the 00:02:57.120 --> 00:02:59.199 time machine. We are going back to the dial -up 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:03.060 days. The year is 1995. A very different internet 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:05.939 landscape. I mean, no Google, no Facebook. Amazon 00:03:05.939 --> 00:03:08.099 was just selling books. Completely. And we are 00:03:08.099 --> 00:03:10.460 in Aurora, Colorado. I want you to meet David 00:03:10.460 --> 00:03:13.479 Kloss. He's a programmer. And like a lot of people 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:16.139 in Colorado, he has a specific enviable problem. 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:19.240 He owns a condo at the Breckenridge Ski Resort. 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:21.800 Not a bad problem to have. No, not at all. But 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:23.879 he wants to rent it out. He's not living there 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.360 2047. You know, think about 1995. If you wanted 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:30.580 to rent out a vacation home, what did you actually 00:03:30.580 --> 00:03:33.460 do? It was an analog world. You put a classified 00:03:33.460 --> 00:03:36.219 ad in a newspaper, maybe the Denver Post or a 00:03:36.219 --> 00:03:39.280 skiing magazine. Maybe. Maybe you nailed a physical 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:42.479 flyer to a bulletin board at the ski lodge near 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.199 the lift line. Right. It was high friction. You 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:47.139 had to wait for someone to see the paper, call 00:03:47.139 --> 00:03:49.960 you on a landline. Maybe you'd... What, fax him 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:52.680 a contract? Exactly. It was slow, your reach 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:54.400 was tiny, and it was incredibly inefficient. 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:57.639 And Klaus, being a programmer, looks at this 00:03:57.639 --> 00:03:59.560 emerging thing called the World Wide Web and 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:01.479 sees a way to cut through all that noise. He 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.219 builds a website specifically to list his Breckenridge 00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:07.460 condo. And he calls it Vacation Rentals by Owner. 00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:11.039 Hence the acronym VRBO. And we have to pause 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:12.979 on that name for a second. Vacation rentals by 00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:15.300 owner. Yeah. It wasn't a brand name like Yahoo 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:18.000 or Google. It was a literal description of the 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.319 transaction. It does exactly what it says on 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:22.800 the tin. Right. And that specificity is important. 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:25.899 It implies a direct relationship. It's not vacation 00:04:25.899 --> 00:04:29.399 rentals by a corporation. No. It's by owner. 00:04:29.500 --> 00:04:32.620 It suggests a handshake deal, even if it's digital. 00:04:33.069 --> 00:04:35.569 And this leads us into the garage phase of the 00:04:35.569 --> 00:04:39.209 story. It's classic startup lore. He builds it 00:04:39.209 --> 00:04:41.970 for himself just to solve his own headache. But 00:04:41.970 --> 00:04:45.269 then what happens? Other homeowners see it. They 00:04:45.269 --> 00:04:47.509 see that Klaus is actually getting bookings and 00:04:47.509 --> 00:04:49.490 they say, hey, I've got a cabin in Vail or I've 00:04:49.490 --> 00:04:51.250 got a beach house in the Outer Banks. Can I put 00:04:51.250 --> 00:04:53.290 my place on your website too? And it creates 00:04:53.290 --> 00:04:55.959 the snowball effect. It really does. And what's 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:58.040 interesting here is the speed of adoption, especially 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.240 considering this is before social media viral 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.740 loops. It was just word of mouth. By 2006, just 00:05:03.740 --> 00:05:06.879 over a decade later, the site had over 465 ,000 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.160 rental listings. That number is staggering for 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.660 that era. And the source material says that by 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:15.560 2006, they were adding 100 new listings per day. 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:18.040 That really speaks to the pent up demand. You 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:20.319 have to realize there were hundreds of thousands 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.879 of second homeowners across America who had these 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:26.279 valuable assets, these houses sitting empty for 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:28.660 40 weeks a year. Right. They were bleeding money 00:05:28.660 --> 00:05:32.319 on mortgages and HOA fees. And suddenly Klaus 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:34.860 hands them a global storefront. Exactly. But 00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:36.660 I want to spend a moment on the business model 00:05:36.660 --> 00:05:38.939 here because this is really important for understanding 00:05:38.939 --> 00:05:41.579 how the industry has changed. OK. In the early 00:05:41.579 --> 00:05:44.959 days, Vrbo operated on a subscription model. 00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:47.480 Okay, let's unpack that. How is that different 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.699 from what we see today? So in a subscription 00:05:49.699 --> 00:05:52.959 model, the homeowner pays an annual fee to list 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:54.860 their property. Let's say it was, I don't know, 00:05:54.939 --> 00:05:59.300 $300 a year. Sure. You pay Vierbo $300, and in 00:05:59.300 --> 00:06:01.800 exchange, you get a page on the site with your 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:04.100 photos and your phone number. That's it. So it's 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:06.899 basically a digital classified ad. Precisely. 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:09.420 Vrbo was selling shelf space. They weren't involved 00:06:09.420 --> 00:06:12.060 in the transaction. When a traveler booked your 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:14.399 place, they sent the check to you. They paid 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.959 you. Not to Vrbo. Vrbo didn't touch the money. 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:19.259 They didn't take a commission on the nightly 00:06:19.259 --> 00:06:22.199 rate. They didn't process the payment. That feels 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.899 almost nostalgic. It's very old internet. It's 00:06:25.899 --> 00:06:29.550 clean. You pay for the service. You get the service. 00:06:29.670 --> 00:06:31.870 The incentives are aligned around visibility, 00:06:32.189 --> 00:06:34.870 not around squeezing every percentage point out 00:06:34.870 --> 00:06:37.629 of the booking. It was a very pure marketplace. 00:06:37.910 --> 00:06:40.310 It was simply a conduit connecting you to the 00:06:40.310 --> 00:06:43.410 owner. And because of that, it fostered a specific 00:06:43.410 --> 00:06:45.569 kind of culture. It felt like a community of 00:06:45.569 --> 00:06:49.209 owners. We are all in this together. But as we 00:06:49.209 --> 00:06:52.129 know, in the tech world, that kind of slow, steady, 00:06:52.329 --> 00:06:55.949 honest subscription revenue is nice. It's nice. 00:06:56.149 --> 00:06:57.949 But it's not usually what attracts the sharks. 00:06:58.149 --> 00:07:01.009 No. Subscription revenue is linear. Transactional 00:07:01.009 --> 00:07:03.250 revenue taking a cut of every dollar that flows 00:07:03.250 --> 00:07:05.629 through the system that is exponential. And that's 00:07:05.629 --> 00:07:07.610 where the money is. And that brings us to the 00:07:07.610 --> 00:07:10.230 end of the garage phase. The sharks began to 00:07:10.230 --> 00:07:12.930 circle. Enter segment two, the acquisition ladder. 00:07:13.230 --> 00:07:15.750 This is where the story shifts from local programmer 00:07:15.750 --> 00:07:19.910 does good to high stakes corporate chess. The 00:07:19.910 --> 00:07:23.290 first big move happens in 2006. Vrbo is acquired 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:25.430 by HomeAway. Now, for those who don't remember 00:07:25.430 --> 00:07:27.970 HomeAway, who were they in the grand scheme of 00:07:27.970 --> 00:07:30.449 things? HomeAway was basically the roll -up king. 00:07:30.610 --> 00:07:33.689 Their entire strategy was consolidation. What 00:07:33.689 --> 00:07:36.050 do you mean by that? They saw all these fragmented 00:07:36.050 --> 00:07:40.029 vacation rental sites, Vrbo, Cyber Rentals, Great 00:07:40.029 --> 00:07:41.889 Rentals, all these little independent operations, 00:07:42.149 --> 00:07:45.389 and they said, if we buy them all, we control 00:07:45.389 --> 00:07:48.629 the market. So Vrbo loses its independence in 00:07:48.629 --> 00:07:52.980 2006, but it's still operating. somewhat distinctly 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:56.279 yes it's a brand within a portfolio the name 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:58.040 is still there the website still looks familiar 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.500 to its users But the water is getting warmer. 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.620 Okay. Because while HomeAway is consolidating 00:08:03.620 --> 00:08:05.720 the traditional market, a little startup in San 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:08.779 Francisco called Airbnb is starting to make waves. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.879 Ah, the disruptor. Exactly. Airbnb proved that 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:13.779 people would stay in anything. An air mattress, 00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:16.240 a spare room, a tree house. They completely changed 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:19.300 the game. Yeah. And the big travel giants, the 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:22.259 Expedias, the booking .coms, they are watching 00:08:22.259 --> 00:08:24.680 this happen with growing anxiety. They are realizing 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:27.319 that hotels are no longer the only game in town. 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:29.769 And they need to own the alternative. They can't 00:08:29.769 --> 00:08:31.790 let this whole other market just grow without 00:08:31.790 --> 00:08:34.690 them. Which leads us to the real seismic shift. 00:08:34.929 --> 00:08:37.590 The moment that turned this into the beast we 00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:40.809 know today. November 4th, 2015. I got the date 00:08:40.809 --> 00:08:43.110 right here. This is when the big fish swims into 00:08:43.110 --> 00:08:46.190 the pond and swallows the medium fish. The Expedia 00:08:46.190 --> 00:08:48.830 Group. A giant in the travel industry. They own 00:08:48.830 --> 00:08:53.429 Hotels .com, Orbitz, Travelocity. Pretty much 00:08:53.429 --> 00:08:55.090 everything you can think of. And they announced 00:08:55.090 --> 00:08:56.809 they are acquiring HomeAway, which of course 00:08:56.809 --> 00:08:59.600 includes our friend Vrbo. Yep. And the price 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.299 tag, hold on to your hats, folks, $3 .9 billion. 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:07.159 Billion with a B. That transaction closed in 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:09.940 early 2016. And I think it's important to contextualize 00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:12.799 why Expedia would spend nearly $4 billion on 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:14.899 this. Yeah, why? That seems like an astronomical 00:09:14.899 --> 00:09:17.279 amount for a collection of rental websites. Because 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:18.759 they saw the writer on the wall. They needed 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:21.480 inventory. They needed those 465 ,000 homes. 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:23.500 They needed to own the alternative accommodation 00:09:23.500 --> 00:09:25.519 market to protect their dominance in travel. 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:27.759 So if they don't buy them. If they didn't buy 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:30.159 home away, someone else would or Airbnb would 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:32.700 just crush them. It would be an existential threat 00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:34.820 to their hotel business. So it's a defensive 00:09:34.820 --> 00:09:37.600 move as much as an offensive one. Absolutely. 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.559 So Vrbo goes from being a subscription site for 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.080 ski condos to being a jewel in the crown of one 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:46.679 of the world's largest travel corporations. And 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:51.379 once you are owned by a giant like Expedia, the 00:09:51.379 --> 00:09:55.100 pressure to streamline and brand build changes 00:09:55.100 --> 00:09:57.529 everything. Everything. Which leads us back to 00:09:57.529 --> 00:09:59.590 that pronunciation debate we started with. The 00:09:59.590 --> 00:10:03.009 great pivot of 2019. Talk us through this. Why 00:10:03.009 --> 00:10:05.789 change the name? Why change the vibe? What was 00:10:05.789 --> 00:10:08.029 the thinking here? So Expedia looks at its portfolio. 00:10:08.350 --> 00:10:10.370 They have HomeAway. They have Virbo. They have 00:10:10.370 --> 00:10:12.289 all these other little brands they acquired over 00:10:12.289 --> 00:10:14.250 the years. It's a mess. It's a mess. And they 00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:16.570 decide, this is too confusing. We are splitting 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:19.149 our marketing budget 10 ways. We need one horse 00:10:19.149 --> 00:10:21.029 to ride. And they looked at the data and chose 00:10:21.029 --> 00:10:24.399 Virbo. They did. In May 2019, they announced 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.899 they were retiring the HomeAway brand, which, 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:30.080 remember, they spent billions acquiring to focus 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:32.740 entirely on Vrbo as their primary vacation rental 00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:36.259 brand. But not just VRBO. They gave it a total 00:10:36.259 --> 00:10:40.120 makeover. A total rebrand. New logo. New capitalization. 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:44.980 It's now Vrbo, capital V, lowercase R -B -O. 00:10:45.139 --> 00:10:47.700 Right. And the official decree on pronunciation, 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:51.460 it is Vrbo. I feel like there was a meeting room 00:10:51.460 --> 00:10:54.019 somewhere where a marketing exec stood up and 00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:57.820 said, VRBO sounds like a government agency. It 00:10:57.820 --> 00:11:02.519 sounds like you're filing taxes. Verbo sounds 00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:05.240 like a friend. That is almost certainly the logic. 00:11:05.860 --> 00:11:08.340 Verbo is a word. It's approachable. It sounds 00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:10.720 like a verb. Let's verbo a place for the weekend. 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:12.620 Oh, yeah. You can't really do that with let's 00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:14.899 VRBO a place. It just doesn't roll off the tongue. 00:11:15.059 --> 00:11:17.960 It's stickier. And they put serious muscle behind 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:19.379 this, didn't they? I mean, we're talking Super 00:11:19.379 --> 00:11:22.360 Bowl money. Huge money. This wasn't a soft launch. 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.639 In 2022, they teamed up with the ad agency Whedon 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.139 plus Kennedy. That's the Nike agency. Just do 00:11:28.139 --> 00:11:31.039 it. The heavy hitters. They produced a spot called 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.659 A Place for Together. It aired during the Super 00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:36.120 Bowl pregame. Oh, I remember this. It had that 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.960 song from the Muppets. Is that right? Yes. Right 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:42.799 where I belong. From the Muppets take Manhattan. 00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:45.580 That is top tier emotional manipulation right 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:47.799 there. Yeah. Using Kermit the Frog nostalgia 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.200 to sell rental bookings. That is genius. It creates 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.019 a warm, fuzzy association. It frames the brand 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:57.279 not as a transactional website, but as a facilitator 00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:59.740 of family connection. Absolutely. The ad is all 00:11:59.740 --> 00:12:02.100 about families reuniting, kids running around, 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:06.100 grandparents smiling. It's saying hotels separate 00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:09.259 you. Verbo brings you together. A place for together. 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.360 It's a powerful tagline. And they didn't stop 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:15.840 there. In that same year, 2022, they became the 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.179 title sponsor of the Fiesta Bowl. So now we have 00:12:18.179 --> 00:12:20.539 the Verbo Fiesta Bowl. That is mainstream. You 00:12:20.539 --> 00:12:22.320 don't get more mainstream than college football 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.700 bowl games. Exactly. This is Expedia saying, 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.559 we are not a niche site for ski bums anymore. 00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:30.639 We are a major consumer brand alongside Coke 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.720 and Ford and Budweiser. But here's the thing 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:35.899 that really gets me. As they are polishing the 00:12:35.899 --> 00:12:38.240 outside of the car with mucket songs and football 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.740 games, they're also completely rebuilding the 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:42.360 engine, right? They are. And this is the under 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.740 the hood segment of our deep dive. If you are 00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:47.179 a user, you might just see a new logo and a catchy 00:12:47.179 --> 00:12:50.259 jingle. But if you are a host or if you follow 00:12:50.259 --> 00:12:53.340 the tech industry, the changes were profound 00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:56.620 and frankly, a little disturbing for the old 00:12:56.620 --> 00:12:58.679 school users. We're talking about the one key 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.080 era. Yes. This happened recently in 2023. Expedia 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.940 launched a unified loyalty program called One 00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:08.379 Key. Explain that for the listeners who might 00:13:08.379 --> 00:13:10.559 just book a flight once a year and not pay attention 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.559 to the points. Why is this a big deal? So traditionally, 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:15.840 these loyalty programs were siloed. You had your 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.360 hotel points, your airline miles. Right. One 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.860 Key unifies Expedia, Hotels .com, and Vierbo. 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.240 This is significant because it turns Vierbo from 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:27.620 a standalone rental site into just another cog 00:13:27.620 --> 00:13:30.120 in the massive travel ecosystem. How does it 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:31.940 work, practically? You can book a cheap motel 00:13:31.940 --> 00:13:34.039 on Hotels .com for a business trip, earn something 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:36.919 they call one key cash, and then spend that cash 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:39.759 on a Vierbo villa in Tuscany. That sounds great 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:41.879 for the consumer, honestly. Flexibility is good. 00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:43.860 Who doesn't want free money towards a vacation? 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.259 Convenience -wise, yes, it's a win. But philosophically, 00:13:47.379 --> 00:13:50.120 it represents the final step of platform consolidation. 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.340 What do you mean by that? It commoditizes the 00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:56.580 homes. A unique historic home in New Orleans 00:13:56.580 --> 00:14:00.059 is now just another inventory unit interchangeable 00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:02.960 with a chain hotel room in terms of earning and 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.419 burning points. It flattens the market. It takes 00:14:05.419 --> 00:14:08.299 away the uniqueness. Exactly. And in 2023, they 00:14:08.299 --> 00:14:11.320 also migrated Vrbo's consumer front end onto 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.379 the brand Expedia technology stack. OK, technology 00:14:14.379 --> 00:14:16.620 stack is a bit of a buzzword. What does that 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:19.879 actually mean? For the experience. It means the 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.519 unique code, the unique architecture that David 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.620 Klaus and his successors built, it's effectively 00:14:24.620 --> 00:14:28.059 gone. Wow. Vrbo is now running on the same engine 00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:30.539 as Expedia. It's a skin on the same database. 00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:33.120 So when I search on Vrbo, I'm basically searching 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.159 Expedia with a different color palette. More 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.460 or less. It signifies that there is no going 00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:40.240 back to the independent days. It is fully integrated. 00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:42.259 It's like when a local coffee shop gets bought 00:14:42.259 --> 00:14:44.559 by a chain. They might keep the old sign out 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:46.899 front that says Dave's Coffee. But the beans, 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:49.539 the espresso machine, and the employee handbook 00:14:49.539 --> 00:14:52.419 are all corporate standard issue now. That is 00:14:52.419 --> 00:14:54.639 a perfect analogy. And usually when that happens, 00:14:54.779 --> 00:14:57.720 policies get standardized too. Right. And that 00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:59.720 brings us to the most contentious part of recent 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.740 history. Because you can have all the Super Bowl 00:15:02.740 --> 00:15:05.440 ads you want, but when a crisis hits, that's 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:07.379 when you see what a company is really made of. 00:15:08.009 --> 00:15:10.710 We have to talk about COVID -19. The pandemic 00:15:10.710 --> 00:15:13.269 was the ultimate stress test for the travel industry. 00:15:13.570 --> 00:15:16.350 And frankly, it broke a lot of things. I think 00:15:16.350 --> 00:15:20.629 we all remember the chaos of March 2020. It feels 00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:23.149 like a bad dream now, but remember that week. 00:15:23.529 --> 00:15:27.049 Borders closing, flights grounded, everyone panicking. 00:15:27.149 --> 00:15:29.250 Complete chaos. If you had a vacation booked, 00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:32.110 you wanted your money back. Period. You weren't 00:15:32.110 --> 00:15:34.409 thinking about terms and conditions. You were 00:15:34.409 --> 00:15:36.600 thinking about survival. And this is where we 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.299 see a stark divergence in strategy between the 00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:42.039 major players. On one side, you had Airbnb and 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:44.519 TripAdvisor. Okay. When the lockdowns hit, they 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.120 made a controversial but very consumer -friendly 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.440 decision. What did they do? They invoked their 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:52.559 extenuating circumstances policies. They forced 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.139 property owners to offer full refunds to travelers. 00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:57.519 Forced being the operative word there. I remember 00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.460 hosts were furious because that money was gone 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:01.639 from their account. Oh, they were livid. Some 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:03.200 of them had already spent it on mortgage payments. 00:16:03.789 --> 00:16:07.190 It was a brutal decision for hosts. But for the 00:16:07.190 --> 00:16:10.750 traveler, it was a relief. Airbnb prioritized 00:16:10.750 --> 00:16:12.889 the guests' trust and safety over the hosts' 00:16:13.110 --> 00:16:16.110 income. They decided the brand reputation with 00:16:16.110 --> 00:16:18.929 travelers was paramount. But Vrbo, Vrbo took 00:16:18.929 --> 00:16:20.990 a very different path. According to the sources, 00:16:21.289 --> 00:16:24.370 Vrbo did not mandate refunds. No. So what did 00:16:24.370 --> 00:16:27.110 he say? Tough luck. They leaned heavily on that 00:16:27.110 --> 00:16:30.009 by owner legacy. They said, look, we are just 00:16:30.009 --> 00:16:32.629 the marketplace. We are the venue. The contract 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:36.029 is between you, the guest and the host. Oh, so 00:16:36.029 --> 00:16:38.549 they left it up to the guests and hosts to, quote, 00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:41.610 work out the detail, work out the details in 00:16:41.610 --> 00:16:44.129 the middle of a global plague. That sounds like 00:16:44.129 --> 00:16:46.870 a recipe for disaster. It was. It led to absolute 00:16:46.870 --> 00:16:49.409 chaos. You had travelers who had paid thousands 00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:51.629 of dollars for a beach house they legally couldn't 00:16:51.629 --> 00:16:54.750 travel to because of state border closures. And 00:16:54.750 --> 00:16:57.450 the host was saying, sorry, my cancellation policy 00:16:57.450 --> 00:17:00.629 says no refunds within 30 days. Tough luck. That 00:17:00.629 --> 00:17:03.090 is infuriating. I can see why people were angry. 00:17:03.210 --> 00:17:06.529 If I paid $3 ,000 for a trip I can't take because 00:17:06.529 --> 00:17:08.650 the government says I can't leave my house and 00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:11.049 the platform says, talk to the guy who owns it. 00:17:11.130 --> 00:17:13.089 The guy says, no, I'm going to lose my mind. 00:17:13.369 --> 00:17:15.990 The backlash was immediate and fierce. Yeah. 00:17:16.089 --> 00:17:18.930 There were calls on Twitter to boycott Vrbo. 00:17:19.089 --> 00:17:21.650 People were calling it theft. Yeah. And Vrbo 00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:24.029 was stuck in the middle trying to maintain their 00:17:24.029 --> 00:17:27.230 buy owner philosophy, which is we don't interfere 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:31.170 in the contract in the situation where that philosophy 00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:33.549 felt incredibly callous. Did they do anything 00:17:33.549 --> 00:17:36.759 to mitigate it or just let it burn? They tried 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:40.180 to nudge people. They prohibited hosts from downplaying 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:42.380 the COVID risks. You couldn't say, oh, it's just 00:17:42.380 --> 00:17:44.599 the flu. Come anyway. OK, that's something. And 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.299 they offered rewards like better search placement 00:17:47.299 --> 00:17:50.519 to hosts who did give refunds, but they wouldn't 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:52.119 force the money back. It's interesting because 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:54.119 it highlights the risk of that buy owner model 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:56.240 we talked about earlier. When things are good, 00:17:56.420 --> 00:17:59.819 buy owner feels personal. Oh, I'm renting from 00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:01.960 Dave. He's a nice guy. Right. When things are 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:05.140 bad, you realize you don't have a corporate safety 00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:07.660 net. You're just arguing with Dave. Exactly. 00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:10.539 And it seems Vrbo eventually realized that this 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:13.460 stance damaged their brand. Because if we fast 00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:17.400 forward to 2024, four years later, policy evolution 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.299 occurred. Better late than never. Perhaps. In 00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:24.099 2024, Vrbo finally added a policy for unforeseen 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:26.640 large -scale travel disruptions. Okay, so what 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.029 does that cover? Another pandemic, a hurricane. 00:18:29.329 --> 00:18:32.289 Under this new rule, if Vrbo decides a situation 00:18:32.289 --> 00:18:35.230 qualifies like a hurricane or another pandemic, 00:18:35.609 --> 00:18:38.269 hosts must issue refunds regardless of their 00:18:38.269 --> 00:18:40.490 cancellation rules. So they finally adopted the 00:18:40.490 --> 00:18:43.680 Airbnb approach. They tighten the loosh. They 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.900 realize that you cannot leave large scale disruptions 00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:49.779 up to individual negotiation. It breaks the trust 00:18:49.779 --> 00:18:52.099 in the platform too severely. Right. You can't 00:18:52.099 --> 00:18:54.559 have a Super Bowl ad about togetherness and then 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.579 let your customers get fleeced during a crisis. 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.259 Speaking of trust, this transitions us perfectly 00:18:59.259 --> 00:19:01.680 to the next segment because COVID wasn't the 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:03.720 only time users felt like the platform left them 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.039 out in the cold. We need to talk about the book 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:08.500 with confidence guarantee. This is a major marketing 00:19:08.500 --> 00:19:10.559 pillar for them. You see the badge everywhere. 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.420 Book with confidence? It sounds great. It suggests 00:19:14.420 --> 00:19:17.420 that if something goes wrong, Vurmo has your 00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:19.980 back. But the sources suggest that Guaranty might 00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:22.700 have some holes in it? Serious holes. There is 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.039 a specific case study in the reporting involving 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:29.000 a villa in Ibiza. Oh, Ibiza. The party capital. 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.119 But this wasn't a party, was it? No. A customer 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:35.539 lost 6 ,000 pounds. That's nearly $8 ,000. That 00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:37.519 is a life -altering amount of money for a vacation 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.299 budget. What happened? The property owner disappeared. 00:19:40.779 --> 00:19:43.799 Just vanished. The customer arrived on the island, 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:47.059 luggage in hand, ready for the villa, and... 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.000 Nothing. Nothing. No keys. No owner. The address 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.920 might not have even been the right place. A scam. 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.220 A pure scam. Effectively. Now, usually in the 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:56.980 modern world, you think, OK, call the credit 00:19:56.980 --> 00:19:59.220 card company, charge back goods and services 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:01.160 not received. Right. That's standard. That's 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:02.819 why we use credit cards for that protection. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.640 But the credit card issuer wouldn't help. Why? 00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:08.700 Because the payment went to an agent, Verbo, 00:20:08.819 --> 00:20:11.480 rather than directly to the host in a way that 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.640 fit their protection criteria. It was a technicality 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:16.480 regarding how the funds flowed. Oh, that's a 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.740 nightmare. So the customer turns to Verbo and 00:20:18.740 --> 00:20:21.420 says, hey, book with confidence, right? I have 00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:24.420 been scammed. And what did Verbo say? I'm afraid 00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:27.559 to ask. They dismissed the claim. They cited 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:29.720 that it was a matter between the host and the 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:31.910 renter. Wait, wait, wait. How can you have a 00:20:31.910 --> 00:20:33.809 book with confidence guarantee and then say, 00:20:33.910 --> 00:20:37.130 hey, figure it out yourselves when the host literally 00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:40.250 disappears with six grand? That feels deceptive. 00:20:40.269 --> 00:20:42.650 That is the platform defense. It's the legal 00:20:42.650 --> 00:20:45.329 shield these companies use. They argue in court 00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:47.529 that they are merely a bulletin board. They aren't 00:20:47.529 --> 00:20:49.549 the hotelier. They aren't the landlord. They 00:20:49.549 --> 00:20:52.029 are just the connector. So they take a fee for 00:20:52.029 --> 00:20:53.829 connecting you, but they're not responsible for 00:20:53.829 --> 00:20:55.750 what happens after. They take the fee for the 00:20:55.750 --> 00:20:58.170 connection, but they disavow the result of the 00:20:58.170 --> 00:21:01.250 connection. But when you were owned by Expedia 00:21:01.250 --> 00:21:04.509 and running those glossy ads, that defense rings 00:21:04.509 --> 00:21:07.410 very hollow to a consumer who just lost their 00:21:07.410 --> 00:21:09.849 vacation front. It creates a massive dissonance, 00:21:09.869 --> 00:21:12.349 and Trustpilot reviews suggest this isn't an 00:21:12.349 --> 00:21:14.549 isolated incident. There are patterns of people 00:21:14.549 --> 00:21:17.150 feeling like the guarantee is more of a marketing 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.950 slogan than an insurance policy. But money is 00:21:19.950 --> 00:21:22.990 one thing. Losing money hurts. But there are 00:21:22.990 --> 00:21:26.279 things that are scarier than losing money. We 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.299 need to talk about the privacy lawsuits. This 00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:30.519 is the stuff of nightmares. This is where the 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.000 stranger's home aspect gets really dark. In 2022, 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:36.700 there were lawsuits filed regarding hidden cameras. 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:39.000 And we aren't talking about a ring doorbell on 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:40.900 the front porch to check for package thieves. 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:43.759 No. We are talking about cameras found in private 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.509 areas. Living rooms. Okay. Bedrooms. Oh no. That 00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:49.529 makes my skin crawl. It's horrifying. The reports 00:21:49.529 --> 00:21:51.630 mention that police actually found images of 00:21:51.630 --> 00:21:54.390 undressed guests on homeowners' computers. I 00:21:54.390 --> 00:21:57.170 don't even know what to say to that. It completely 00:21:57.170 --> 00:22:00.049 shatters the illusion of privacy. You go to a 00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:02.490 rental to relax, to be intimate, to be with your 00:22:02.490 --> 00:22:05.609 family. The idea that someone is watching. And 00:22:05.609 --> 00:22:07.690 this brings up a crucial structural difference 00:22:07.690 --> 00:22:10.589 between a hotel and a vacation rental. A hotel 00:22:10.589 --> 00:22:13.730 is a highly regulated public space. Right. There 00:22:13.730 --> 00:22:16.430 are professional staff. There are security protocols. 00:22:16.829 --> 00:22:20.410 There is strict corporate oversight. If a Marriott 00:22:20.410 --> 00:22:22.950 put a camera in a bedroom, the CEO would be on 00:22:22.950 --> 00:22:25.509 CNN apologizing within an hour. But a vacation 00:22:25.509 --> 00:22:28.009 rental. It's just someone's house. You are sleeping 00:22:28.009 --> 00:22:31.769 in a stranger's house. And while 99 .9 % of hosts 00:22:31.769 --> 00:22:34.329 are decent people, the platform model relies 00:22:34.329 --> 00:22:37.910 on decentralized inventory. Verbo cannot inspect 00:22:37.910 --> 00:22:40.369 every single bedroom for a pinhole camera. It 00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:42.670 is physically impossible. They can't. They have 00:22:42.670 --> 00:22:44.849 2 million listings. So you are rolling the dice 00:22:44.849 --> 00:22:46.809 on the ethics of the homeowner. And when that 00:22:46.809 --> 00:22:49.490 roll goes wrong, the consequences are severe. 00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:52.950 These lawsuits highlight that risk. It challenges 00:22:52.950 --> 00:22:55.069 the entire premise of the home -sharing economy. 00:22:55.529 --> 00:22:57.490 Is the comfort of a home worth the risk of amateur 00:22:57.490 --> 00:23:00.069 security and privacy violations? That is a heavy 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:03.170 question. And it's not just guests asking questions. 00:23:03.390 --> 00:23:06.769 It's cities, governments. This brings us to the 00:23:06.769 --> 00:23:09.529 regulatory wars. This was inevitable. You cannot 00:23:09.529 --> 00:23:12.369 drop thousands of unregulated hotel rooms into 00:23:12.369 --> 00:23:14.549 residential neighborhoods without the local government 00:23:14.549 --> 00:23:16.930 eventually waking up and getting angry. And Los 00:23:16.930 --> 00:23:19.289 Angeles decided to pick a fight. Big time. In 00:23:19.289 --> 00:23:23.289 2022, the city of Los Angeles sued Vrbo. What 00:23:23.289 --> 00:23:26.480 was the specific charge? Noncompliance with rental 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.519 laws. Specifically, L .A. has a short -term rental 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.680 ordinance. They require hosts to register with 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.720 the city to prevent party houses and to protect 00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:38.259 housing stock for actual residents. Right. You 00:23:38.259 --> 00:23:40.240 need a permit number to list your home. You do. 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.200 And the city accused Vrbo of allowing hosts to 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.000 use the platform without that registration, effectively 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.440 facilitating illegal businesses. And what did 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:50.799 the data say? Was it a small problem? City Attorney 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.779 Mike Fuhrer was very aggressive on this. He claimed 00:23:53.779 --> 00:23:56.859 that, get this, 29 % of bookings in a recent 00:23:56.859 --> 00:23:59.559 30 -day period appeared to violate city rules. 00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:02.119 Nearly a third. Nearly a third. Imagine if a 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:03.859 third of the cars on the road didn't have license 00:24:03.859 --> 00:24:06.519 plates. That is a regulatory failure. And this 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:09.259 highlights the ongoing tension between platform 00:24:09.259 --> 00:24:12.119 capitalism and municipal governance. Always. 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.460 Uber did it. Airbnb did it. Vrbo is doing it. 00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:18.500 Their business model relies on frictionless growth. 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.250 And regulation is friction. Regulation is friction, 00:24:21.450 --> 00:24:23.869 so they often ignore it or fight it until they 00:24:23.869 --> 00:24:27.170 are sued into compliance. The L .A. lawsuit is 00:24:27.170 --> 00:24:30.289 just one battle in a global war over who gets 00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:32.509 to control our neighborhoods, the people who 00:24:32.509 --> 00:24:34.849 live there or the platforms that monetize them. 00:24:35.130 --> 00:24:37.170 It's fascinating how we started this conversation 00:24:37.170 --> 00:24:39.569 talking about a guy in Colorado just wanting 00:24:39.569 --> 00:24:41.990 to rent his ski condo. It seemed so innocent. 00:24:42.230 --> 00:24:44.630 It was innocent. That's the garage phase. But 00:24:44.630 --> 00:24:46.630 once you inject billions of dollars in corporate 00:24:46.630 --> 00:24:49.009 imperatives, the incentives change completely. 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.119 So let's zoom out. We've gone from 1995 to the 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.059 present day. We've seen the tech changes, the 00:24:54.059 --> 00:24:56.900 rebrands, the scandals. What is the big takeaway 00:24:56.900 --> 00:24:59.339 here? For me, the big picture is about the tradeoffs 00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:02.220 of the platform economy. We as consumers gained 00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:05.880 access to 465 ,000 plus homes. We can stay in 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.039 a castle in France or a cabin in the Rockies 00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:10.720 with a few clicks. That is a miracle of technology. 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:13.640 It is. I love that access. I use it all the time. 00:25:14.029 --> 00:25:16.650 But we inherited the risks. We inherited the 00:25:16.650 --> 00:25:18.890 risk of dealing with individual owners regarding 00:25:18.890 --> 00:25:22.150 refunds. We inherited the privacy risks of staying 00:25:22.150 --> 00:25:25.450 in unregulated spaces. And we inherited the community 00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:27.630 destabilization that comes with turning homes 00:25:27.630 --> 00:25:30.289 into hotels. It's not a free lunch. It never 00:25:30.289 --> 00:25:32.849 is. And as we wrap up, I want to leave the listeners 00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:35.650 with a thought to chew on. We talked about how 00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:39.069 Vrbo is now fully integrated into Expedia Tech 00:25:39.069 --> 00:25:41.990 Stack, Loyalty Program, everything. Yes. As platforms 00:25:41.990 --> 00:25:44.690 like Vrbo integrate deeper into these massive 00:25:44.690 --> 00:25:47.410 corporate stacks, do they lose that by -owner 00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:51.410 spirit that started in 1995? And does that distance, 00:25:51.569 --> 00:25:54.769 that corporate insulation, make them less accountable 00:25:54.769 --> 00:25:57.190 for what actually happens inside the homes they 00:25:57.190 --> 00:25:59.819 list? That is the multi -billion dollar question. 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:02.079 If you are just an algorithm matching a buyer 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:04.079 and a seller, can you wash your hands of the 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.420 result? Yeah. Or does the brand imply a promise 00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:08.920 of safety that they are failing to keep? Something 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:10.779 to think about the next time you are scrolling 00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:13.720 through listings, dreaming of that beach getaway. 00:26:13.940 --> 00:26:18.079 Is it VRBO? Is it VRBO? Or is it just a giant 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:20.339 database that doesn't really care who you are? 00:26:20.539 --> 00:26:23.740 A cynical, but perhaps accurate, place to end. 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:26.589 Thanks for listening to this deep dive. We'll 00:26:26.589 --> 00:26:27.950 get you on the next one. Safe travels.