WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today, we are

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opening up a file that sits right at the intersection

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of real estate dreams and honestly, sometimes

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contract nightmares. It really does. It's a topic

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that sounds incredibly simple on the surface,

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but the deeper you look, the more complex and...

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Fascinating it becomes. It is a fascinating area.

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It's really where human psychology, you know,

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our hopes and fears about homeownership meets

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hard property law. We are talking about the lease

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option. You might know it as rent to own. It's

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this sort of magical bridge concept where you're

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renting a house, but you have this golden ticket

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to buy it later. Right. It sounds like the perfect

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solution, right? You can't buy yet. Maybe the

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bank said no. Maybe you're new in town, so you

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rent, but you lock it in. It feels like having

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your cake and eating it, too. It sounds perfect

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on paper. And I mean, for some people, it is

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exactly the tool they need. It's like a surgical

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instrument that can cut right through some very

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specific financial barriers. But for others,

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it can be a trap. And not just a minor inconvenience

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kind of trap. We are talking about a trap where

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you can lose years of savings and end up with

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absolutely nothing to show for it. Exactly. And

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that's our mission today. We are going to unpack

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the mechanics of this. We aren't just skimming

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the surface. We are looking at the contract law,

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the investor strategies, and the specific risks

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that come along with it. We are drawing from

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a really detailed breakdown of real estate contracts

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to understand what makes a lease option valid

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and frank. what makes it so dangerous. We have

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a lot of source material to get through from

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legal breakdowns to investor playbooks on how

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to leverage these deals for profit. And we have

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to start with the definitions because words really,

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really matter here. In this specific niche of

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real estate, if you use the wrong word, you might

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be describing a completely different legal reality

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with totally different obligations. They do.

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Okay, so let's start with the initial definition.

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Broadly speaking, what are we looking at? A lease

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option is, at its core, an agreement between

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a property owner and a tenant. But it's actually

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two agreements sort of bundled into one. OK.

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First, you have the lease. That's the standard

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rental agreement that gives you the right to

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live in the property. Simple enough. Right. I

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pay rent. I get to live there. Exactly. Second,

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you have the option. And this is a separate legal

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concept that says after a certain period, the

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renter can buy the property at a specific price.

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That word can. is doing a lot of heavy lifting

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there, isn't it? It is doing all the heavy lifting.

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It's the whole ballgame. Right. And this leads

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us to the first major distinction we have to

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make before we go any further. The difference

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between a lease option and a lease purchase.

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Yes. I used to think these were synonyms. I think

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most people use rent to own as this big catch

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-all term for both. Most people do. They use

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them interchangeably, but legally they are worlds

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apart. And if you sign the wrong one thinking

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it's the other... you could be in for a world

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of hurt. So what's the difference? A lease purchase

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is exactly what it sounds like. It binds both

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parties. You are leasing the property, yes, but

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you have also signed a purchase contract that

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says you must buy it at the end of the term.

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You are obligated. So let's play that out. If

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I sign a lease purchase and two years later I

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lose my job, or maybe the market crashes and

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the house is suddenly worth half of what I agreed

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to pay, I'm still on the hook to buy that house.

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Correct. You are legally bound. The seller is

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bound to sell to you, and you are bound to buy

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from them. It is a bilateral agreement. It's

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a two -way street. And if I walk away? If you

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walk away, the seller can sue you for breach

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of contract. They can technically sue for something

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called specific performance, which means a court

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could literally force you to buy the house. More

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likely, though, they'll sue you for damages.

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You don't have an exit ramp. Okay, that sounds

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incredibly stressful. It removes all the flexibility

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that makes this idea so attractive in the first

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place. It does. It's a much more rigid instrument.

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So how is a lease option different? A lease option

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is unilateral. It's a one -way street, but in

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a good way for the buyer. The seller is bound.

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They must sell it to you at the agreed price

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if you decide you want it. They can't just wake

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up tomorrow and decide to sell it to their cousin

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for a better price. They're locked in. They're

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locked in. But you, the tenant buyer, you have

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the option. You have the choice. You can exercise

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your option to buy it, or you can just walk away.

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So I hold all the cards, at least on the buy

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or not buy decision. In terms of that final decision

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making, yes, you control the destiny of that

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deed. But, and this is a big but, to get those

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cards, you have to pay for them. And that is

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where we get into the real mechanics of the deal.

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Okay, let's get into that. We've identified seven

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critical elements that make up these deals. And

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the first one is exactly what you just hinted

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at. It's called valuable consideration. Sounds

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very official. Right. And this is just contract

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law 101. For an option to be valid, something

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of value, usually money has to change hands.

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You can't just shake on it and say, hey, I might

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buy this from you in a couple of years. That's

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just a conversation. It's just a conversation.

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It's not a legally enforceable contract. You

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have to actually buy the right to buy the house

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later. And this payment is the option fee. And

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this isn't a security deposit, right? I feel

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like that's a really common misconception. People

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think, oh, I'll get that back. It is the most

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common misconception and it's a dangerous one.

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A security deposit is refundable. It is your

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money held in trust by the landlord to cover

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potential damages. If you don't trash the place,

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you get it back when you move out. Simple enough.

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The option fee is generally non -refundable.

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Need to hear that again. Non -refundable. You

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are purchasing a thing of value, the exclusive

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right to buy that property at a set price for

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a set time. Once you pay that fee, the seller

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cannot sell that house to anyone else during

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the option term. You have bought that exclusivity.

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So if I change my mind and decide not to buy

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the house? The seller keeps the money. No questions

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asked. Because they took their house off the

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market for me. They missed out on other potential

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buyers during that time. They had an opportunity

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cost. Exactly. They upheld their end of the bargain

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by holding the property for you. You paid for

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that service. So how much money are we talking

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about here? If I want to do this, what's the

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price of admission? Well, it varies a lot. It's

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a negotiation. If you are the seller, you want

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as much as possible to ensure the buyer is serious.

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You want them to have significant skin in the

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game. So they won't walk away easily. Precisely.

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So typically you see sellers asking for 3 % to

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5 % of the purchase price. Okay, so on a $400

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,000 house, that's $12 ,000 to $20 ,000 up front.

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That's real money. It is. It's not pocket change.

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It's a serious commitment. Now, on the other

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side, if you are the buyer or maybe a savvy investor

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acting as the buyer, you want to pay as little

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as possible. Of course. And technically, legal

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consideration can be a token amount. It could

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be $100. It could even be $10. Seriously. I could

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lock up a half million dollar property for under

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bucks. Legally, yes. Courts have upheld options

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with what they call nominal consideration. practically

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speaking. Good luck getting a seller to agree

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to that unless they're very, very desperate or

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you are an incredible negotiator. Yeah. But the

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principle is that something of value must be

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paid to make the contract binding. Okay. So we've

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paid our fee. We have our option. Now, element

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number two, the purchase price. How do we decide

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what I'm going to pay for this house? Two or

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three years from now. There are really two schools

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of thought on this. The less common way is that

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you agree that the price will be determined by

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an appraisal at the time of purchase. So in two

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years, whatever a licensed appraiser says it's

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worth, that's what I pay. Which seems fair, I

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guess, but it's not very exciting. It basically

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just defers the negotiation and removes any upside

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for me as the buyer. Exactly. It removes the

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speculative element. It's safe. But it's not

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why most people do this. The more common method

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and the one that really attracts people to lease

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options is agreeing on the purchase price at

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the inception right at the very beginning. This

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is the gamble. This is a total gamble on the

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future of the real estate market. Let's say the

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house is worth $300 ,000 today. The seller might

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say, OK, I'll give you an option to buy it in

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three years, but the price is going to be $320

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,000. OK, so they're hedging. They're betting

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on at least a little bit of appreciation. They're

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trying to capture future appreciation. They assume

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the house will be worth more later, so they want

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to lock that in. But if I'm the buyer, I'm betting

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the market is going to go crazy. I'm hoping that

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in three years that house isn't worth $320 ,000.

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It's worth $350 ,000 or even more. Right. And

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if you're correct and it is worth $350 ,000,

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you get to execute your option to buy it for

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$320 ,000. The moment you close, you instantly

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have $30 ,000 in equity. You've beaten the market.

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That's the dream scenario. But let's look at

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the flip side. What if the market tanks? What

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if there's a recession and the house is only

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worth $280 ,000 in three years? Then you walk

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away. Just like that. Just like that. You lose

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your option fee. Your $10 ,000 or whatever it

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was is gone. But you aren't stuck buying a house

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for $40 ,000 more than it's worth. That's the

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safety valve of the option versus the purchase.

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You weren't underwater on a mortgage because

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you never had to take out the mortgage in the

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first place. I see. It's like buying a stock

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option, really. You're betting on the future

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value, and your risk is capped at the premium

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you paid. That's a perfect analogy. Your risk

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is limited to the option fee. Okay. Element number

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three, the timeline, the duration. How long do

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these things last? In residential real estate,

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the typical term is one to three years. But there

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is a huge trap here for the tenant buyer, and

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the source material is very, very clear on this.

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What's the trap? A short -term lease option,

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say two years or less, is often unwise for the

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buyer. Really? Two years feels like a long time

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to me. It feels like it, but life and financial

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recovery move fast. Usually the person entering

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a lease option is doing it because they have

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some kind of hurdle to overcome. Right. Bad credit,

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no down payment. Yep. Something is stopping them

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from buying today. Exactly. And fixing those

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problems takes time. If you have bad credit,

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you need to clear up disputes on your credit

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report. Each dispute can take 30 to 45 days.

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You need to build a new positive history of on

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-time payments. And most lenders want to see

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at least 12, sometimes 24 months of that. So

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if the term is only a year, the clock runs out

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before they can even get their financial house

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in order. Precisely. The option expires. They

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lose that non -refundable fee and they are right

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back at square one, maybe even worse off because

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they're out that cash. So if you are the buyer,

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you want as long a term as you can possibly negotiate.

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You want runway. That makes sense. OK, you mentioned

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rent credits earlier. That's element number four.

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And I think this is the part that really sells

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people on the whole idea. It makes it feel like

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your rent money. isn't just dead money disappearing

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into a landlord's pocket. That is the psychological

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hook. It's a powerful one. The idea is that a

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portion of your monthly rent goes toward your

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down payment or the purchase price. But let's

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look at the math because it's rarely as simple

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as it sounds. You aren't usually paying just

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market rent. You're paying a premium on top of

00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:07.480
it. Right. Let's use the example from the source.

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Let's say fair market rent for a particular house

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is $1 ,000 a month. In a lease option scenario,

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the seller might charge $1 ,100 or $1 ,200. Okay,

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so it's more expensive than just renting down

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the street. Correct. And that extra amount is

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the rent credit. So in the source example, the

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market rent is $1 ,000. The seller charges $1

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,100. That extra $100 is then credited back to

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the buyer at closing. So wait, in that example,

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I'm paying $100 over market to get $100 credit.

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That's a wash. In that simple example, yes. But

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often it's structured more favorably. The seller

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might charge $1 ,100 but offer a $200 credit.

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Ah, okay. So I'm paying a $100 premium to get

00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:50.720
a $200 benefit. That's a better deal. It is.

00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:52.340
It functions like that forced savings plan we

00:11:52.340 --> 00:11:55.600
mentioned. Over two years, that $200 a month

00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.899
adds up to $4 ,800 off the purchase price or

00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:01.159
towards your closing costs. It makes the tenant

00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.299
feel invested. They aren't just renters anymore.

00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.320
They start to see themselves as future owners.

00:12:05.580 --> 00:12:08.200
But it's important to remember. The base rent,

00:12:08.340 --> 00:12:11.879
that $1 ,000, usually covers the landlord's mortgage,

00:12:12.139 --> 00:12:15.580
taxes, and insurance. The credit is really coming

00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:18.120
from the premium you pay. That's almost always

00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.840
the case. It's not free money. Which leads us

00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.539
to element five, occupancy and rights. I assume

00:12:24.539 --> 00:12:27.009
the tenant actually lives there. In a typical

00:12:27.009 --> 00:12:29.970
rent -to -own scenario with a family, yes, they

00:12:29.970 --> 00:12:32.289
live there. But the contract needs to be very

00:12:32.289 --> 00:12:34.950
specific about their rights. Can they sublease

00:12:34.950 --> 00:12:37.690
a room? Probably not. Can they sell the option

00:12:37.690 --> 00:12:40.789
itself to someone else? Ooh, now that's interesting.

00:12:40.970 --> 00:12:43.350
It is. And that becomes a huge, huge deal when

00:12:43.350 --> 00:12:45.269
we start talking about investors later on. But

00:12:45.269 --> 00:12:47.750
for a standard family, yes, they are moving in

00:12:47.750 --> 00:12:49.549
and making it their home. And once they move

00:12:49.549 --> 00:12:52.620
in, things get... Weird compared to a normal

00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:55.059
rental. I'm in six. Maintenance. This is the

00:12:55.059 --> 00:12:57.500
big shift in mindset and responsibility. In a

00:12:57.500 --> 00:12:59.899
normal rental, if the toilet breaks or the roof

00:12:59.899 --> 00:13:01.980
starts leaking, who do you call? The landlord.

00:13:02.139 --> 00:13:04.789
It's their house, their problem. Right. But in

00:13:04.789 --> 00:13:07.350
a lease option, the psychology is different.

00:13:07.470 --> 00:13:10.590
You are practicing being the owner. So the contract

00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:13.110
often shifts the burden of maintenance, or at

00:13:13.110 --> 00:13:16.110
least a portion of it, to the tenant buyer. So

00:13:16.110 --> 00:13:18.529
I'm paying rent every month, but I'm also the

00:13:18.529 --> 00:13:20.769
one fixing the garbage disposal when it jams.

00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.340
Often, yes. The contract might say the seller

00:13:24.340 --> 00:13:26.919
is responsible for major structural things like

00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.940
the foundation or the roof, but the tenant handles

00:13:29.940 --> 00:13:32.720
everything else. Or maybe there is a deductible,

00:13:32.740 --> 00:13:35.179
like the tenant pays for the first $100 of any

00:13:35.179 --> 00:13:37.799
repair and the landlord covers the rest. But

00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:40.320
either way, it's more responsibility on the tenant.

00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:42.850
Much more. And from the seller's perspective,

00:13:43.070 --> 00:13:45.570
this is a fantastic deal. No more 3 a .m. calls

00:13:45.570 --> 00:13:48.169
about a leaky faucet. Their life just got a lot

00:13:48.169 --> 00:13:50.570
easier. But for the tenant, it's a real risk.

00:13:50.750 --> 00:13:53.289
You could pour thousands of dollars into fixing

00:13:53.289 --> 00:13:55.970
up a house that you end up not even buying. Imagine

00:13:55.970 --> 00:13:59.490
spending $5 ,000 on new floors or a water heater,

00:13:59.570 --> 00:14:01.470
and then your financing falls through at the

00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:03.850
last minute. You just donated those floors and

00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:05.429
that water heater to the landlord. You don't

00:14:05.429 --> 00:14:07.110
get that money back. It's a tough pill to swallow.

00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:09.559
It really is. Okay, so we had the mechanics down,

00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:12.559
the fee, the price, the timeline, the credits,

00:14:12.659 --> 00:14:15.480
occupancy, and maintenance. Now, I want to pivot

00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:19.240
to the people who use these mechanics like a

00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.580
chessboard, the investors. Yes. Because this

00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:24.379
isn't just for families trying to buy a home.

00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.200
This is a huge, well -established strategy for

00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:30.139
real estate investors. Absolutely. The investor

00:14:30.139 --> 00:14:32.000
strategies are fascinating because they take

00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.960
these simple mechanics and layer them to create

00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.000
incredible leverage. They essentially detach

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.259
the utility of the house living in it from the

00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:44.080
financial control of the house. The source describes

00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.059
something called the sandwich strategy. Now,

00:14:47.059 --> 00:14:48.980
I'm getting hungry, but I'm assuming this isn't

00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:51.019
about lunch. No, it's about being the middleman.

00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:53.840
You are the meat in the sandwich positioned between

00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.710
two other parties. Okay, so break it down. How

00:14:56.710 --> 00:14:58.950
does this sandwich work? OK, imagine an investor

00:14:58.950 --> 00:15:01.389
finds a distressed seller. Maybe the house is

00:15:01.389 --> 00:15:03.190
a little rundown and hard to sell, or maybe the

00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:05.190
seller just needs out. They got a job in another

00:15:05.190 --> 00:15:07.169
state. They can't cover two mortgages. They're

00:15:07.169 --> 00:15:09.850
desperate. A motivated seller. A very motivated

00:15:09.850 --> 00:15:13.029
seller. The investor goes to the seller and enters

00:15:13.029 --> 00:15:16.590
into a lease option with them. So. The investor

00:15:16.590 --> 00:15:19.309
is now technically the tenant buyer. But the

00:15:19.309 --> 00:15:21.330
investor has no intention of ever living in that

00:15:21.330 --> 00:15:24.450
house. None at all. And the contract they sign

00:15:24.450 --> 00:15:27.250
explicitly gives the investor the right to sublease

00:15:27.250 --> 00:15:29.970
the property and assign the option. So what do

00:15:29.970 --> 00:15:32.409
they do next? They turn around and find someone

00:15:32.409 --> 00:15:35.029
who does want to live there. Exactly. They find

00:15:35.029 --> 00:15:37.610
a tenant buyer, a family who wants to live in

00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:39.690
the house but can't get a mortgage just yet.

00:15:39.889 --> 00:15:42.370
So the investor is the tenant to the original

00:15:42.370 --> 00:15:45.350
owner? and they become the landlord to the new

00:15:45.350 --> 00:15:48.129
resident. Precisely. They are sandwiched right

00:15:48.129 --> 00:15:50.590
in the middle, and they make money on the spread

00:15:50.590 --> 00:15:52.570
in multiple ways. Okay, let's walk through the

00:15:52.570 --> 00:15:54.629
math example from the source, because seeing

00:15:54.629 --> 00:15:56.429
the numbers really clarifies this. It can get

00:15:56.429 --> 00:15:59.330
a little confusing. Sure. So let's say the investor

00:15:59.330 --> 00:16:01.230
enters an agreement with the original seller

00:16:01.230 --> 00:16:04.330
for a purchase price of $100 ,000. That's the

00:16:04.330 --> 00:16:06.490
price the investor can buy it for. Let's say

00:16:06.490 --> 00:16:08.809
they agree to pay the seller $800 a month in

00:16:08.809 --> 00:16:12.149
rent. Okay, so $100 ,000 price is locked in.

00:16:13.049 --> 00:16:15.090
And they're paying out $800 a month. Correct.

00:16:15.629 --> 00:16:18.090
The investor then maybe does some light cosmetic

00:16:18.090 --> 00:16:21.090
work. Let's say they spend $20 ,000 fixing it

00:16:21.090 --> 00:16:24.769
up. New paint, new carpets, clean up the landscaping.

00:16:25.230 --> 00:16:27.990
Now, because of that work, the fair market value

00:16:27.990 --> 00:16:31.450
of the house jumps to $135 ,000. So they've created

00:16:31.450 --> 00:16:34.769
$15 ,000 in equity, effectively. The value is

00:16:34.769 --> 00:16:38.149
$135K. Their purchase price is $100K. And they

00:16:38.149 --> 00:16:41.309
put in $20K of work. Right. But instead of buying

00:16:41.309 --> 00:16:43.090
it themselves and going through the hassle of

00:16:43.090 --> 00:16:45.509
getting a loan, they sell the right to purchase

00:16:45.509 --> 00:16:48.769
to a final buyer. They market the home as a rent

00:16:48.769 --> 00:16:52.210
to own for $135 ,000. And they find that family

00:16:52.210 --> 00:16:54.230
who can't get a loan yet. Yep. They find a family

00:16:54.230 --> 00:16:56.889
who puts down, say, a $5 ,000 non -refundable

00:16:56.889 --> 00:17:00.190
option fee and agrees to pay $1 ,200 a month

00:17:00.190 --> 00:17:02.429
in rent. Wait. Okay. Hold on. Walk me through

00:17:02.429 --> 00:17:03.970
the cash flow there because there are a few things

00:17:03.970 --> 00:17:06.029
happening at once. Okay. So first, the investor

00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:08.450
collects that $5 ,000 option fee from the family.

00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:10.930
That's immediate. cash in their pocket that might

00:17:10.930 --> 00:17:12.829
cover their own option fee to the original seller

00:17:12.829 --> 00:17:15.789
and then some. Got it. Upfront profit. Then every

00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:17.650
single month they have cash flow. They collect

00:17:17.650 --> 00:17:19.890
twelve hundred dollars from the family. They

00:17:19.890 --> 00:17:22.210
turn around and pay the original seller their

00:17:22.210 --> 00:17:24.170
eight hundred dollars and they keep the four

00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:25.829
hundred dollar difference. That's the monthly

00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:27.829
spread. The sandwich filling. That's the sandwich

00:17:27.829 --> 00:17:30.289
filling. That's pure monthly profit. And then

00:17:30.289 --> 00:17:32.549
there's the big payday at the end. When the family

00:17:32.549 --> 00:17:34.529
finally gets their mortgage. Right. Let's say

00:17:34.529 --> 00:17:36.369
in two years the family gets their mortgage approved.

00:17:36.630 --> 00:17:39.750
They buy the house for the agreed upon $135 ,000.

00:17:40.369 --> 00:17:42.970
The closing happens. The original seller gets

00:17:42.970 --> 00:17:45.660
their $100 ,000 that was promised to them. And

00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:47.559
the investor? The investor gets the remaining

00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.759
$35 ,000. From that, you'd subtract their $20

00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.900
,000 in rehab costs. So their back -end profit

00:17:53.900 --> 00:17:57.660
is $15 ,000, plus the $5 ,000 option fee they

00:17:57.660 --> 00:18:00.660
collected up front, plus the $400 a month they

00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:03.259
made for two years, which is another $9 ,600.

00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:06.150
So the original seller gets their price. The

00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:08.650
final buyer gets the house they wanted. And the

00:18:08.650 --> 00:18:10.849
investor walks away with a pretty hefty profit

00:18:10.849 --> 00:18:14.029
for being the middleman. Exactly. The investor

00:18:14.029 --> 00:18:16.710
controlled a valuable asset and profited from

00:18:16.710 --> 00:18:19.009
the appreciation and the value add of the rehab,

00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:21.910
all without ever actually taking title to the

00:18:21.910 --> 00:18:24.710
home. It's a way to control assets with very

00:18:24.710 --> 00:18:26.890
little of your own money and without the liability

00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:29.210
of actually owning them. That sounds brilliant,

00:18:29.289 --> 00:18:32.890
but it also sounds really risky. What if something

00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:34.859
goes wrong in the middle of all that? There are

00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:37.819
significant risks, huge risks. The biggest one

00:18:37.819 --> 00:18:40.119
for the investor in this scenario is the title

00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.019
to the property. What do you mean? You are putting

00:18:42.019 --> 00:18:45.000
$20 ,000 of your own rehab money into a house

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.799
you do not own. What if the original seller,

00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:49.859
the one you have the deal with, has a secret

00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:52.140
tax line you didn't know about? What if they

00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:54.140
go bankrupt? What if they're going through a

00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:56.299
messy divorce and the spouse suddenly refuses

00:18:56.299 --> 00:18:58.859
to sign the deed? What if they just can't transfer

00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:00.779
clear title when it's time to buy? Then your

00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:02.619
deal with the final family is dead. Yeah. And

00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:05.500
you lose your $20 ,000. You lose the entire improvement

00:19:05.500 --> 00:19:08.799
budget and you have a very, very angry final

00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.740
buyer who paid you an option fee for a house

00:19:11.740 --> 00:19:14.319
you can't deliver. You could be facing serious

00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.099
legal action for fraud or breach of contract.

00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:20.380
The source mentions an alternative for this specific

00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:23.720
risk, something called subject to. How is that

00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.599
different? Yes. If an investor is going to do

00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.789
a major rehab. I'm talking anything more than

00:19:29.789 --> 00:19:32.509
just paint and carpet. A lease option is usually

00:19:32.509 --> 00:19:34.730
way too risky for the reasons we just discussed.

00:19:34.970 --> 00:19:38.589
They might prefer a subject to transaction. This

00:19:38.589 --> 00:19:41.190
is where the investor actually takes the title.

00:19:41.309 --> 00:19:43.670
The deed transfers into their name immediately,

00:19:43.869 --> 00:19:46.970
but the existing mortgage stays in the original

00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:49.970
seller's name. So they actually own the house.

00:19:50.009 --> 00:19:52.009
So their renovation money is safe because they

00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:54.769
own the asset they're improving. Correct. They

00:19:54.769 --> 00:19:57.410
hold the deed. It's much safer for the rehab

00:19:57.410 --> 00:19:59.630
money. Now, it carries a whole different set

00:19:59.630 --> 00:20:01.750
of risks, like the banks due on sale clause.

00:20:02.009 --> 00:20:04.589
But that's a topic for another deep dive. For

00:20:04.589 --> 00:20:06.529
lease options, the rule of thumb for an investor

00:20:06.529 --> 00:20:09.410
is don't rehab a house you don't own unless the

00:20:09.410 --> 00:20:10.809
numbers are small enough that you can afford

00:20:10.809 --> 00:20:13.049
to lose them completely. OK, that's a good rule.

00:20:13.150 --> 00:20:15.250
Yeah. There is another investor strategy mentioned,

00:20:15.410 --> 00:20:17.690
which is the buyer investor. This is less about

00:20:17.690 --> 00:20:20.069
being a middleman and more about using sweat

00:20:20.069 --> 00:20:22.980
equity. This is a fantastic strategy for someone

00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:26.480
who is handy, but maybe a little short on cash

00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.640
for down payment. Let's say you want to buy a

00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.940
house, but you don't have that 20 % down payment

00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:33.099
sitting in the bank. Right. Common problem. You

00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:35.039
find a seller with a house that's structurally

00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.859
sound, but ugly. It needs work. You agree to

00:20:38.859 --> 00:20:41.019
a lease option with that seller. You move in.

00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.779
And instead of saving for a down payment. I use

00:20:43.779 --> 00:20:46.079
my cash to buy materials and fix the place up

00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:49.200
myself. Exactly. You use your savings for lumber,

00:20:49.420 --> 00:20:52.319
paint, new light fixtures. You do the work yourself

00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:54.700
on weekends. You're increasing the value of the

00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:57.099
house with your own labor. You're building sweat

00:20:57.099 --> 00:20:59.880
equity. That's the term. When your option term

00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.339
is up, the house is now worth significantly more.

00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:05.039
When you go to the bank to get the loan, the

00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:08.019
loan -to -value ratio, the LTV, looks much better

00:21:08.019 --> 00:21:10.619
because the house appraises for a higher value.

00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:15.579
your cash down payment for your sweat. I love

00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:17.779
that. It's like bootstrapping your way into home

00:21:17.779 --> 00:21:20.259
ownership. It feels very, I don't know, American

00:21:20.259 --> 00:21:22.460
dream -ish. It's a great way to get started if

00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:24.960
you have more time and skill than cash. Okay,

00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:27.440
we have looked at the mechanics and the investors.

00:21:27.859 --> 00:21:30.259
Now I want to look at the motivation matrix.

00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:33.980
Why do people do this? Why not just keep renting

00:21:33.980 --> 00:21:37.349
or wait until you can buy traditionally? Let's

00:21:37.349 --> 00:21:39.549
start with the buyer. We mentioned bad credit,

00:21:39.670 --> 00:21:42.089
but the source lists a whole bunch of other reasons.

00:21:42.309 --> 00:21:45.049
It's not just about bad credit. Sometimes it's

00:21:45.049 --> 00:21:47.910
about unprovable income. Business owners are

00:21:47.910 --> 00:21:50.289
a classic example. How so? You might have just

00:21:50.289 --> 00:21:52.569
started a new business. It's doing great. You

00:21:52.569 --> 00:21:54.430
have plenty of cash flow. Business is booming.

00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.819
But banks, they're very conservative. They typically

00:21:58.819 --> 00:22:01.539
require a two -year tax history showing stable

00:22:01.539 --> 00:22:03.640
income before they'll give you a mortgage. Right.

00:22:03.700 --> 00:22:05.920
So the bank sees you as a high risk, even if

00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:07.920
you're making a ton of money, just because the

00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.759
income isn't seasoned. Exactly. So a lease option

00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.299
buys you that two -year window. You can secure

00:22:13.299 --> 00:22:15.359
the house you want for your family now. You lock

00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.000
in the price and you just wait for your tax returns

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.099
to catch up to your business reality. That's

00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:22.799
a great use case. What about relocation? That's

00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.289
a huge one. Imagine you're moving your family

00:22:25.289 --> 00:22:28.390
to a new city for a job. You don't know the neighborhoods.

00:22:28.509 --> 00:22:30.490
You don't know if the schools are actually as

00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:32.730
good as their websites claim or if they just

00:22:32.730 --> 00:22:34.289
look good on Zillow. You don't know where the

00:22:34.289 --> 00:22:36.230
good grocery store is. You don't know anything.

00:22:36.410 --> 00:22:39.170
Do you really want to commit to a 30 -year mortgage

00:22:39.170 --> 00:22:42.630
and plant roots on day one? Probably not. You

00:22:42.630 --> 00:22:44.890
want to test drive the city first. A lease option

00:22:44.890 --> 00:22:47.589
lets you do that. You lock in a house you like

00:22:47.589 --> 00:22:50.299
in a neighborhood that seems promising. If you

00:22:50.299 --> 00:22:52.460
find out six months later that the commute is

00:22:52.460 --> 00:22:54.920
an absolute nightmare or the neighbors, you know,

00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:57.599
run a drum circle at 2 a .m. every Tuesday. You

00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:59.940
can bail. You can walk away. You'll pay a price

00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:01.839
for that flexibility. You lose the option fee.

00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:04.460
But that's often way cheaper than buying a house,

00:23:04.579 --> 00:23:06.839
paying thousands in closing costs, realizing

00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:09.660
you hate it, and then paying a 6 % commission

00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:12.680
to a realtor to sell it again a year later. That

00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:15.259
makes a lot of sense. It's risk mitigation for

00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:17.259
the buyer's lifestyle, not just their finances.

00:23:17.950 --> 00:23:20.289
There was also a specific note in the source

00:23:20.289 --> 00:23:24.690
about VA loans. Yes, this is a very clever niche

00:23:24.690 --> 00:23:28.410
strategy. VA loans are fantastic, often zero

00:23:28.410 --> 00:23:31.650
down payment, but they have very strict appraisal

00:23:31.650 --> 00:23:33.789
standards about the physical condition of the

00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:35.890
property. What kind of things? Peeling paint,

00:23:36.130 --> 00:23:39.490
a bad roof, a missing handrail on a staircase,

00:23:39.930 --> 00:23:43.369
broken windows. Any of these can be a deal killer

00:23:43.369 --> 00:23:46.630
for a VA appraisal. The house has to meet certain...

00:23:46.970 --> 00:23:49.569
minimum property requirements. So classic fixer

00:23:49.569 --> 00:23:51.670
upper isn't going to qualify for a VA loan. Right.

00:23:51.769 --> 00:23:55.569
So a savvy veteran might use a lease option to

00:23:55.569 --> 00:23:57.589
move into the house, use their own money and

00:23:57.589 --> 00:24:00.450
time to fix those specific checklist style issues

00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:03.210
during the lease term. And then once the house

00:24:03.210 --> 00:24:05.269
is up to code and will pass the inspection, they

00:24:05.269 --> 00:24:07.950
trigger the VA loan to buy it. Exactly. It bridges

00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:09.930
that gap between the current condition of the

00:24:09.930 --> 00:24:11.849
house and the strict requirements of the bank.

00:24:11.970 --> 00:24:13.910
That is really smart. OK, let's flip the table.

00:24:13.970 --> 00:24:16.009
Why does a seller do this? If I have a house.

00:24:16.269 --> 00:24:18.250
Why don't I just put a sign in the yard, sell

00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:20.789
it, and take the cash? Usually it's because they

00:24:20.789 --> 00:24:23.829
can't. Or at least they can't easily. Maybe the

00:24:23.829 --> 00:24:25.750
market is really cold and there are no buyers.

00:24:25.990 --> 00:24:28.150
Maybe the house has some issues that make it

00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:31.190
hard to sell traditionally. A lease option opens

00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:33.990
up a much, much larger pool of potential buyers.

00:24:34.250 --> 00:24:36.230
Because you're not just marketing to people who

00:24:36.230 --> 00:24:38.869
can get a bank loan today. You're marketing to

00:24:38.869 --> 00:24:41.769
basically... Anyone who can afford the monthly

00:24:41.769 --> 00:24:44.529
payment, even if their credit is shot. You expand

00:24:44.529 --> 00:24:47.309
your market tenfold, so it solves the unsellable

00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:49.289
house problem. But there's more to it than just

00:24:49.289 --> 00:24:52.049
desperation. Oh, absolutely. There's a maximization

00:24:52.049 --> 00:24:54.670
component. There's a common rule in this business.

00:24:55.309 --> 00:24:58.069
Price or terms, pick one. I like that. Explain

00:24:58.069 --> 00:25:00.329
what that means. If a buyer comes to you with

00:25:00.329 --> 00:25:03.109
all cash and wants to close in two weeks, they

00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:05.049
have all the leverage. They're going to demand

00:25:05.049 --> 00:25:06.869
a discount. They get a low price because they

00:25:06.869 --> 00:25:10.079
offer perfect terms. Cash is king. But if a buyer

00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.940
needs terms, if they need time, flexibility,

00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:15.880
or seller financing like a lease option, then

00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.619
the seller has the leverage. The seller can demand

00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:21.279
a premium price. So if I'm giving you three years

00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.460
to get your act together and buy my house, I'm

00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:25.920
going to charge you full retail plus maybe a

00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:27.660
little more for the trouble. Exactly. You get

00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:30.059
your price. On top of that, you're keeping that

00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:33.200
non -refundable option fee. On top of that, you're

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.579
likely getting above market rent every single

00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:38.799
month. And if the tenant ultimately doesn't buy,

00:25:39.019 --> 00:25:41.440
you keep all that money and just start the process

00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.299
over with someone new. It can be very, very profitable.

00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.599
And there's a point in here about eviction versus

00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.440
foreclosure. This seems like a critical legal

00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:52.880
safety net for the seller. It is absolutely crucial.

00:25:53.500 --> 00:25:56.180
If you sell a house to someone using traditional

00:25:56.180 --> 00:25:58.839
seller financing where you act as the bank and

00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:01.500
hold the mortgage and that buyer stops paying

00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.720
you. You have to foreclose on them. You have

00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.599
to foreclose. Foreclosure is a long, complicated

00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:09.960
and very expensive legal process. Depending on

00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:12.099
the state, it can take months or even years to

00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:14.119
get your property back. But in a lease option.

00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:16.599
They are not an owner. They are technically a

00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:20.069
tenant. If they stop paying rent, you don't foreclose,

00:26:20.089 --> 00:26:22.450
you evict them. And eviction is generally much

00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:24.970
faster and cheaper. Much faster, much cheaper.

00:26:25.289 --> 00:26:28.549
It's governed by landlord -tenant law, not mortgage

00:26:28.549 --> 00:26:31.109
law. You can often get your property back in

00:26:31.109 --> 00:26:34.029
30 to 60 days. It's a massive difference in risk

00:26:34.029 --> 00:26:37.190
management for the seller. It is. But speaking

00:26:37.190 --> 00:26:39.750
of risk, we really need to get to the dark side

00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:42.509
of this. We've painted a picture of a flexible,

00:26:42.690 --> 00:26:46.150
useful tool, but there are some serious red flags

00:26:46.150 --> 00:26:49.730
and... as the source calls them bank realities

00:26:49.730 --> 00:26:52.670
that can blow these deals up for the buyer this

00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:54.430
is the most important part of the conversation

00:26:54.430 --> 00:26:57.329
i think the biggest hurdle is what we call the

00:26:57.329 --> 00:26:59.809
financing hurdle and it's specifically about

00:26:59.809 --> 00:27:02.029
those rent credits we talked about earlier this

00:27:02.029 --> 00:27:04.109
is the excess credit rule right yes and this

00:27:04.109 --> 00:27:06.720
is where so many of these deals go to die right

00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.339
at the finish line. So the buyer and seller,

00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:11.460
they have this nice agreement. I'm paying you

00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:14.779
$1 ,500 a month in rent, and we agree that $500

00:27:14.779 --> 00:27:16.980
of that is going toward my down payment. Okay.

00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:18.700
Sounds good. It's in the contract. It's in the

00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:20.660
contract. They shake hands. They sign it. It's

00:27:20.660 --> 00:27:23.380
all good. For two years, the buyer makes every

00:27:23.380 --> 00:27:25.299
payment on time. And now they're ready to buy.

00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:27.539
They're ready. They walk into the bank with their

00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:29.700
contract and their payment history and say, look,

00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.759
I saved up $12 ,000 in down payment credits.

00:27:33.299 --> 00:27:35.240
And the loan officer looks at it and says, hold

00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:38.630
on a second. What is the fair market rent for

00:27:38.630 --> 00:27:41.130
this house? And if the bank's appraiser comes

00:27:41.130 --> 00:27:44.089
back and says the fair market rent is, say, $1

00:27:44.089 --> 00:27:47.170
,500. Then the bank looks at the buyer and says,

00:27:47.289 --> 00:27:49.029
you didn't save anything. You just paid rent.

00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:52.730
The bank, the underwriter specifically, will

00:27:52.730 --> 00:27:55.190
typically only allow the amount paid above fair

00:27:55.190 --> 00:27:57.390
market rent to count as a down payment. Whoa.

00:27:57.609 --> 00:28:00.410
So if I was paying exactly market rent and the

00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:03.009
seller just gifted me a credit on paper, the

00:28:03.009 --> 00:28:05.809
bank just ignores it. Often, yes. They view it

00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:08.690
as a seller concession or a gift, not as true

00:28:08.690 --> 00:28:11.069
cash equity from the buyer. And all of a sudden,

00:28:11.130 --> 00:28:13.369
that buyer who thought they had $12 ,000 for

00:28:13.369 --> 00:28:15.910
their down payment and closing costs has zero.

00:28:16.150 --> 00:28:18.890
They're short. The deal falls apart. The option

00:28:18.890 --> 00:28:21.410
expires and the seller keeps everything. That

00:28:21.410 --> 00:28:23.690
is absolutely devastating. That's two years of

00:28:23.690 --> 00:28:25.910
planning down the drain. So if you are a buyer,

00:28:26.049 --> 00:28:27.930
you need to make sure your total payments are

00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:30.910
documentably above the market rent if you want

00:28:30.910 --> 00:28:33.230
any of it to count. Absolutely. It has to be

00:28:33.230 --> 00:28:35.490
crystal clear that you are paying a premium specifically

00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:38.490
for the equity. It's even better if you write

00:28:38.490 --> 00:28:41.049
two separate checks each month, one for rent

00:28:41.049 --> 00:28:44.130
and a second one for option payment. Documentation

00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:46.589
is everything. Then there are the outright predatory

00:28:46.589 --> 00:28:49.230
practices. The source mentions a strategy called

00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:51.900
the churn. This is the really ugly side of the

00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:54.759
business. Some unscrupulous investors or landlords

00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:57.799
will specifically scan for tenants who have absolutely

00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.240
no realistic chance of ever qualifying for a

00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.619
loan. So they know from day one that the tenant

00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:06.799
has terrible credit, no savings, unstable income.

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.000
Right. They know this person will fail. But they

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.400
sell them the dream of homeownership. They take

00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:15.500
a big non -refundable option fee, maybe $5 ,000

00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:19.160
or $10 ,000. Then they set a very short term,

00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:22.220
maybe six months or a year, knowing full well

00:29:22.220 --> 00:29:24.480
the tenant can't possibly fix their credit and

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.680
save for closing costs in that time. The term

00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.009
runs out, the tenant can't buy. The landlord

00:29:30.009 --> 00:29:32.910
keeps the fee. They evict the tenant for not

00:29:32.910 --> 00:29:35.269
exercising their option or just let it expire

00:29:35.269 --> 00:29:37.690
and then they put a new sign in the yard and

00:29:37.690 --> 00:29:40.410
find the next victim to pay another $5 ,000 fee.

00:29:41.230 --> 00:29:44.329
They just churn through people harvesting option

00:29:44.329 --> 00:29:47.150
fees without ever having any intention of actually

00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.950
selling the house. That is incredibly cynical.

00:29:50.029 --> 00:29:52.309
It's preying on people's desperation. It is.

00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:54.410
And that's why that unilateral nature of the

00:29:54.410 --> 00:29:56.549
contract is so important to understand from both

00:29:56.549 --> 00:29:59.549
sides. A good seller is hoping you succeed. A

00:29:59.549 --> 00:30:01.849
predatory seller is betting you won't. It's an

00:30:01.849 --> 00:30:04.390
adversarial position in some ways. And just be

00:30:04.390 --> 00:30:07.170
clear, if the buyer defaults, if they stop paying

00:30:07.170 --> 00:30:10.210
rent halfway through the term, what happens then?

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.440
The whole thing collapses. The relationship reverts

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.819
instantly to a simple landlord -tenant relationship.

00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:18.440
The option part of the contract is voided. So

00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:20.299
you lose everything. You lose the option fee.

00:30:20.420 --> 00:30:22.059
You lose all the rent credits you've accumulated.

00:30:22.539 --> 00:30:25.000
You are just a tenant who is behind on rent and

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:27.140
is now facing eviction. It's a very high -stakes

00:30:27.140 --> 00:30:29.200
game. It is. You have to go in with your eyes

00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.539
wide open. So let's synthesize this. We've covered

00:30:31.539 --> 00:30:33.579
a lot of ground. The mechanics of the fee and

00:30:33.579 --> 00:30:35.859
the price. The sandwich strategy for investors.

00:30:36.619 --> 00:30:38.980
The motivations for both buyers and sellers.

00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.980
And the very serious risks. What is the big overarching

00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:46.339
takeaway here? I think the takeaway is that a

00:30:46.339 --> 00:30:49.180
lease option is a powerful and flexible tool,

00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.779
but it's not a standard rental. It is a sophisticated

00:30:52.779 --> 00:30:54.900
financial instrument that happens to be wrapped

00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.859
inside a lease agreement. You can't treat it

00:30:57.859 --> 00:31:00.819
casually. For the buyer, it's a potential pathway

00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:02.779
to ownership when the front door seems locked.

00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:05.680
But it comes with a non -refundable cover charge,

00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:08.880
that option fee, and a very strict deadline.

00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:11.420
And for the seller, it's a way to move difficult

00:31:11.420 --> 00:31:13.680
property and maximize your financial return.

00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:16.799
But it requires managing a tenant who, in their

00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:19.119
mind, is already an owner, which can create its

00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:21.480
own set of challenges. I want to leave the listeners

00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.660
with a final thought, something to chew on. We

00:31:23.660 --> 00:31:25.319
talked about how the tenant buyer often takes

00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.319
on the burdens of maintenance. They're the one

00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.140
fixing the roof, painting the walls, replacing

00:31:29.140 --> 00:31:31.339
the dishwasher. Right. It makes me think about

00:31:31.339 --> 00:31:34.059
the very nature of ownership. In a lease option,

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.470
you are technically just a tenant. But you are

00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:40.089
bearing the burdens and the costs of an owner,

00:31:40.210 --> 00:31:43.230
but you don't yet have the security of holding

00:31:43.230 --> 00:31:46.650
the title. You are paying in a very real way

00:31:46.650 --> 00:31:51.190
for the potential of future equity. That's a

00:31:51.190 --> 00:31:53.190
really profound way to put it. You're not just

00:31:53.190 --> 00:31:55.789
renting a house. You're renting hope. Exactly.

00:31:55.809 --> 00:31:57.910
And the question you have to ask yourself is,

00:31:57.990 --> 00:32:00.839
is the price of that potential? The option fee,

00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:03.119
the higher rent, the unexpected repair costs.

00:32:03.259 --> 00:32:05.819
Is it worth the risk that that hope never becomes

00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:07.960
a reality? That is the multi -thousand dollar

00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.480
question every single tenant buyer has to answer

00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.880
for themselves before they sign that check. And

00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:14.640
a question for you to consider before you ever

00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.079
sign on the dotted line. Read the fine print,

00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:18.980
everyone. Thanks for diving deep with us today.

00:32:19.140 --> 00:32:20.500
My pleasure. See you next time.
