WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.100 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we are opening 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:06.179 a file that I have been itching to get into for 00:00:06.179 --> 00:00:11.259 a long, long time. It's a story about a figure 00:00:11.259 --> 00:00:14.939 who, for the better part of two decades, has 00:00:14.939 --> 00:00:18.500 been the invisible hand and sometimes the very, 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:21.390 very visible fist. of the modern music industry. 00:00:21.550 --> 00:00:24.109 It's a name that really acts like a Rorschach 00:00:24.109 --> 00:00:27.030 test. You know, you say it and people either 00:00:27.030 --> 00:00:30.250 see this like brilliant business strategist who 00:00:30.250 --> 00:00:32.829 basically invented the modern pop star or they 00:00:32.829 --> 00:00:35.109 see the ultimate villain of the artist's rights 00:00:35.109 --> 00:00:37.890 movement. There's almost no in between. We're 00:00:37.890 --> 00:00:39.689 talking, of course, about Scooter Braun. And 00:00:39.689 --> 00:00:42.090 I think the timing for this is just it's perfect 00:00:42.090 --> 00:00:44.149 because we're recording this in February 2026. 00:00:44.429 --> 00:00:47.109 The dust has, for the most part, finally settled. 00:00:47.340 --> 00:00:49.479 It really has. If you've only been reading headlines 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:52.020 on Twitter or X or whatever we're calling it 00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:54.079 this week, you might just know him as the guy 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:56.420 Taylor Swift hates. Yeah. Or the guy who discovered 00:00:56.420 --> 00:00:59.340 Baber. And that's it. Exactly. And that is such 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:01.579 a surface level reading of what happened. Oh, 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:03.600 completely, because by the time he retired from 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:06.400 artist management back in 2024, he had fundamentally 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.280 altered the infrastructure of how celebrity works. 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.700 And now, sitting here in 2026, looking at his 00:01:12.700 --> 00:01:15.400 corporate role at Hybe, we can actually see the 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:17.500 full picture, the whole arc. And that's our mission 00:01:17.500 --> 00:01:19.879 today. Yeah. We are going to move past the memes, 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:22.500 past the Stan Wars. We want to understand the 00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:25.620 mechanics. How does a frat boy from Emory University, 00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:28.180 who didn't even graduate, by the way, how does 00:01:28.180 --> 00:01:31.609 he end up becoming a billionaire CEO? and a board 00:01:31.609 --> 00:01:34.290 member of a massive South Korean entertainment 00:01:34.290 --> 00:01:37.590 giant. It's the mogul method. And honestly, looking 00:01:37.590 --> 00:01:39.890 at the biography and the financial filings we 00:01:39.890 --> 00:01:42.629 have in front of us, it's a master class in recognizing 00:01:42.629 --> 00:01:44.989 and creating leverage. He never just took the 00:01:44.989 --> 00:01:47.569 job he was given. He always tried to buy the 00:01:47.569 --> 00:01:50.170 building the job was housed in. So let's rewind. 00:01:50.370 --> 00:01:52.489 We need to get out of the boardroom and go all 00:01:52.489 --> 00:01:54.989 the way back to the dorm room. Because the origin 00:01:54.989 --> 00:01:58.200 story here is actually... It's kind of wild. 00:01:58.260 --> 00:01:59.920 It starts in Atlanta, but he's not from Atlanta. 00:02:00.019 --> 00:02:02.340 No, no. He's a total transplant. Born in New 00:02:02.340 --> 00:02:05.459 York City in 1981. Raised in Coscob, Connecticut. 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:09.819 Scott Samuel Braun. And his background is, you 00:02:09.819 --> 00:02:12.830 know. It's very traditional, but also very intense. 00:02:13.150 --> 00:02:16.050 His grandparents were Hungarian immigrants who 00:02:16.050 --> 00:02:19.189 fled the revolution in 1956, and they were survivors 00:02:19.189 --> 00:02:21.569 of the Holocaust. So that's the family history 00:02:21.569 --> 00:02:24.930 he's born into. His father, Ervin, was a dentist, 00:02:24.969 --> 00:02:27.449 but also a high school basketball coach on the 00:02:27.449 --> 00:02:29.569 side. OK, that combination explains a lot. The 00:02:29.569 --> 00:02:32.689 precision of a dentist and the competitive fire 00:02:32.689 --> 00:02:34.789 of a coach. Exactly. I mean, you don't grow up 00:02:34.789 --> 00:02:36.490 in a house like that without inheriting a certain 00:02:36.490 --> 00:02:39.250 kind of drive. And it showed. He was class president 00:02:39.250 --> 00:02:41.900 at Greenwich. high school, you know, a total 00:02:41.900 --> 00:02:44.919 golden boy on paper. For sure. So he follows 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:47.259 that path, heads down to Emory University in 00:02:47.259 --> 00:02:49.780 Atlanta to play basketball. And this is where 00:02:49.780 --> 00:02:52.099 the timeline gets really interesting. It's the 00:02:52.099 --> 00:02:54.759 early 2000s in Atlanta. And you have to picture 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:57.199 the scene. The city is just exploding culturally. 00:02:57.439 --> 00:02:59.819 It's the center of the universe for music. You've 00:02:59.819 --> 00:03:04.120 got Outkast, Ludacris, Jermaine Dupri. The Dirty 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.879 South movement is literally taking over the world. 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:09.520 And right in the middle of all this, you have 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:12.199 this Jewish kid from Connecticut who decides 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:14.280 he's going to be a party promoter. And not just, 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:16.759 like you said, dorm room parties. No, not keg 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:18.620 stands in the basement parties. He starts organizing 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:21.060 these massive professional events. He had a hustle 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:24.330 that was... Frankly, just unusual for a college 00:03:24.330 --> 00:03:26.289 student. He wasn't just putting up flyers on 00:03:26.289 --> 00:03:29.590 campus. He was building a real network. By 2002, 00:03:29.930 --> 00:03:33.069 he's maybe 19 or 20 years old, and he gets hired 00:03:33.069 --> 00:03:35.590 to plan the after parties for the anger management 00:03:35.590 --> 00:03:37.849 tour. Well, we need to pause on that, the anger 00:03:37.849 --> 00:03:40.430 management tour. Because for listeners who might 00:03:40.430 --> 00:03:42.210 be a bit younger, this wasn't just some tour. 00:03:42.389 --> 00:03:45.229 No, this was an event. This was Eminem at the 00:03:45.229 --> 00:03:48.689 absolute dizzying peak of his powers touring 00:03:48.689 --> 00:03:51.590 with Ludacris. It was arguably the biggest hip 00:03:51.590 --> 00:03:54.069 hop tour of the entire decade. For sure. And 00:03:54.069 --> 00:03:56.629 a college dropout is running the nightlife for 00:03:56.629 --> 00:03:59.889 it. Across five major cities. That right there 00:03:59.889 --> 00:04:02.490 is the sink or swim moment. I mean, if you mess 00:04:02.490 --> 00:04:05.090 up the security or the VIP list for Eminem's 00:04:05.090 --> 00:04:08.030 entourage, you're done. Your career is over before 00:04:08.030 --> 00:04:10.969 it starts. Blacklisted forever. Forever. But 00:04:10.969 --> 00:04:14.349 Braun didn't mess up. He crushed it. And that 00:04:14.349 --> 00:04:17.250 is when Jermaine Dupri spots him. The legend. 00:04:17.470 --> 00:04:20.379 JD. The man behind So Too Deaf Records. Right. 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:23.300 Dupree sees this kid, you know, controlling the 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:25.639 crowd, managing the chaos, making everything 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.300 run smoothly. And he doesn't offer him an internship. 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:31.889 He doesn't offer him a junior A &R job. He offers 00:04:31.889 --> 00:04:34.189 him the position of executive director of marketing 00:04:34.189 --> 00:04:37.509 for So So Death. That is just, it's laughable. 00:04:37.709 --> 00:04:39.410 I mean, can you imagine being 20 years old and 00:04:39.410 --> 00:04:41.689 your business card says executive director of 00:04:41.689 --> 00:04:44.629 a major hip hop label? It's insane. And it really 00:04:44.629 --> 00:04:46.889 speaks to a specific talent that Braun had from 00:04:46.889 --> 00:04:49.370 the very beginning, code switching. He could 00:04:49.370 --> 00:04:51.490 walk into a boardroom with corporate sponsors 00:04:51.490 --> 00:04:53.449 and speak their language, you know, ROI, brand 00:04:53.449 --> 00:04:55.370 synergy, all of that. And then he could walk 00:04:55.370 --> 00:04:57.209 into the studio with Ludacris and speak that 00:04:57.209 --> 00:04:59.670 language. He was the bridge. He was the translator. 00:04:59.990 --> 00:05:02.110 And he just kept. He kept leveling up. He was 00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:05.870 organizing parties for the 2003 NBA All -Star 00:05:05.870 --> 00:05:08.970 Game, for Britney Spears' Onyx Hotel tour in 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:12.250 2004. He was just everywhere. You made himself 00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:16.189 indispensable. But then, in 2005, he leaves SoSo. 00:05:17.430 --> 00:05:20.930 And this, to me, is where I think the mogul method 00:05:20.930 --> 00:05:24.810 really truly begins. Because he brokers a deal. 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.620 The Pontiac deal. The Pontiac deal. This is the 00:05:27.620 --> 00:05:30.459 Rosetta Stone for his entire career. We absolutely 00:05:30.459 --> 00:05:32.819 have to unpack this. Please do. Because usually 00:05:32.819 --> 00:05:35.019 when we think of music managers back then, we 00:05:35.019 --> 00:05:37.000 think of guys booking gigs or getting their artists 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.040 on the radio. This is something completely different. 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:41.319 So Ludacris has a music video coming out. The 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:43.399 old model would be, you know, you try to get 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:45.420 a car company to pay you 20 grand to put their 00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:47.500 car in the video. Basic product placement. Basic 00:05:47.500 --> 00:05:50.399 product placement. Braun goes to Pontiac General 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:52.560 Motors and he doesn't pitch product placement. 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:55.240 He convinces them to build an entire campaign 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.839 around Ludacris. It wasn't just, let's feature 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:00.699 the car. It was, let's integrate the car into 00:06:00.699 --> 00:06:03.259 the artist's brand and integrate the artist into 00:06:03.259 --> 00:06:06.180 the car's marketing. And the number is what's 00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:10.480 staggering. It was a $12 million deal. $12 million 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:15.759 in 2005. That is a massive, massive spend for 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:18.730 a car company on one artist. It was astronomical 00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:21.149 at the time. And the insight there, the thing 00:06:21.149 --> 00:06:23.829 that Braun saw that maybe others didn't, was 00:06:23.829 --> 00:06:26.509 that hip hop wasn't a niche anymore. It was the 00:06:26.509 --> 00:06:28.750 dominant youth culture. Corporate America was 00:06:28.750 --> 00:06:30.949 desperate to touch it, but they were spared. 00:06:31.250 --> 00:06:33.129 They didn't know how. Right. They didn't speak 00:06:33.129 --> 00:06:35.790 the language. Exactly. And Braun basically walked 00:06:35.790 --> 00:06:38.550 in and said, I can translate for you. He leveraged 00:06:38.550 --> 00:06:40.910 the cool of the artist to sell the commodity 00:06:40.910 --> 00:06:43.879 of the car. And it worked. And presumably he 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.000 took a very, very healthy commission on that 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.480 $12 million. Enough to set up his own shop. He 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:50.779 goes independent. He starts consulting for the 00:06:50.779 --> 00:06:53.079 Atlanta Hawks basketball team. He's building 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:55.800 his own little fiefdom in Atlanta. But he's still 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:58.560 looking for that one thing, that one asset that 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.360 he can build from the ground up that he can own. 00:07:00.699 --> 00:07:04.079 Which brings us to 2008, the year of what our 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:06.819 source calls the happy accident. The click heard 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:09.639 round the world. It sounds like a myth, but it's 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:12.300 true. The story has become... Almost mythical 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:15.160 at this point. So Scooter is sitting at his computer 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.300 late at night, supposedly trying to find a video 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:21.500 of a different singer. I think it was an R &B 00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:23.980 artist he was scouting. And he accidentally clicks 00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:26.980 a related link on the side of the page. And up 00:07:26.980 --> 00:07:31.040 pops this grainy, pixelated video of a 12 -year 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:33.699 -old kid. It's a little kid. A little kid sitting 00:07:33.699 --> 00:07:36.160 on a plastic chair in what looks like a living 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:38.800 room in Stratford, Ontario, singing a Ne -Yo 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:42.129 song. Justin Bieber. Now, be honest. If you saw 00:07:42.129 --> 00:07:45.269 that video in 2008, would you have seen a billion 00:07:45.269 --> 00:07:47.870 dollar globe spanning empire? Absolutely not. 00:07:47.990 --> 00:07:50.269 I mean, not a chance. I would have seen a cute 00:07:50.269 --> 00:07:52.350 kid with a really nice voice. And that's why 00:07:52.350 --> 00:07:54.990 Braun is who he is. And I am not. He saw something 00:07:54.990 --> 00:07:57.449 totally different. What did he see? He saw stickiness. 00:07:57.870 --> 00:07:59.949 That's the word he uses. He saw that this kid 00:07:59.949 --> 00:08:02.470 had a charisma that somehow transcended the terrible 00:08:02.470 --> 00:08:04.389 video quality. There was just something there. 00:08:04.529 --> 00:08:06.910 But the industry did not agree with him at all. 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:10.259 No. And this is really important context. In 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:14.699 2008, YouTube was for cat videos and, like, funny 00:08:14.699 --> 00:08:17.819 home movies. It was not a talent pool. When Braun 00:08:17.819 --> 00:08:20.319 started calling record labels saying, hey, I 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.379 found a kid on the internet, they laughed at 00:08:22.379 --> 00:08:24.540 him. Literally laughed at him? Yeah. They told 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:26.480 him to his face, we don't sign YouTube kids. 00:08:26.980 --> 00:08:30.160 It wasn't a thing yet. He was too early. So what 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:32.279 did he do? He basically went into like full on 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:35.019 detective mode, didn't he? He did. He had to. 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.279 He tracked down the school board in Stratford, 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.159 Ontario, just to try and find Justin's mom, Patty 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.379 Millett. And Patty was a very tough sell. Understandably. 00:08:43.419 --> 00:08:46.480 For sure. She was a devout Christian, a single 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.940 mom, extremely protective of her son. She was 00:08:48.940 --> 00:08:51.220 not thrilled about some fast talking guy from 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:53.899 the Atlanta hip hop scene calling her out of 00:08:53.899 --> 00:08:55.899 the blue about her son. I can just imagine that 00:08:55.899 --> 00:08:58.860 first phone call. Yeah. Hi, trust me, you should 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:01.610 fly. with your preteen son to the city where 00:09:01.610 --> 00:09:04.370 Outcast lives, it'll be great. It's a hard pitch. 00:09:04.649 --> 00:09:07.129 And he said in interviews that he had to rely 00:09:07.129 --> 00:09:09.330 on his own religious background, actually. He 00:09:09.330 --> 00:09:11.149 connected with her through their shared faith 00:09:11.149 --> 00:09:13.929 and values. He had to convince her he was trustworthy. 00:09:14.370 --> 00:09:17.370 And eventually it worked. It did. She finally 00:09:17.370 --> 00:09:20.149 agrees to fly down to Atlanta for a trial run. 00:09:20.779 --> 00:09:23.740 And once they are on his turf, Braun moves fast. 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:26.220 He gets Justin in the studio immediately, gets 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:28.259 him in front of Usher. But Justin Timberlake 00:09:28.259 --> 00:09:30.299 was also in the mix at that point, right? There 00:09:30.299 --> 00:09:32.559 was a competition. It became a full -on bidding 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:35.139 war. Timberlake wanted to sign him. Usher wanted 00:09:35.139 --> 00:09:38.159 to sign him. And Braun played them off each other 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:39.980 beautifully. That's the way they go with Usher. 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:42.360 In the end, they went with Usher because the 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.220 mentorship deal just made more sense. And they 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:52.190 formed a new company, a joint venture. And this 00:09:52.190 --> 00:09:54.409 is the key distinction. This is so important. 00:09:54.730 --> 00:09:57.860 Braun wasn't just hired as the manager. No. He 00:09:57.860 --> 00:10:00.620 was the partner. He owned half the asset. Correct. 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:02.980 He owned the discovery. And because the major 00:10:02.980 --> 00:10:04.559 labels were still skeptical, they were still 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.759 saying, uh, YouTube kid, we don't know. Braun 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:09.840 and Bieber had to do something totally revolutionary 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.860 at the time. They bypassed the radio. They just 00:10:12.860 --> 00:10:15.299 ignored it. They went straight to the fans on 00:10:15.299 --> 00:10:17.980 Twitter and YouTube. I remember this so vividly. 00:10:17.980 --> 00:10:22.379 The one time video. The constant tweeting. He 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:24.899 would have Justin reply to fans individually 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:28.220 for hours. He weaponized the parasocial relationship 00:10:28.220 --> 00:10:30.960 before we even had a word for it. He realized 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.419 that if you could build an army of teenage girls 00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:35.740 on the Internet, the radio stations would have 00:10:35.740 --> 00:10:37.799 no choice but to play the record. The demand 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:40.879 would be overwhelming. He created the Beliebers. 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:44.220 It was the first time I think we saw social media 00:10:44.220 --> 00:10:46.799 used to just brute force a star into the mainstream. 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:50.320 It was a siege. And it worked. The kid became 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.240 the biggest pop star on the planet. And suddenly 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:55.759 Scooter Braun isn't the party planner from Atlanta 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:58.539 anymore. He's the genius. He's the guy who cracked 00:10:58.539 --> 00:11:01.460 the code. And now everyone wanted the code. Everybody 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:04.220 wanted the code. He signs Ariana Grande in 2013. 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:06.179 Which was a completely different kind of challenge, 00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:08.919 right? She wasn't an unknown. She was a Nickelodeon 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:11.759 star. And breaking a child actor out of that 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:14.740 Disney or Nickelodeon mold is notoriously difficult. 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.100 They usually crash and burn or they just fade 00:11:17.100 --> 00:11:19.559 away. Right. The curse of the child star. But 00:11:19.559 --> 00:11:22.700 Braun navigated her transition into a legitimate, 00:11:22.820 --> 00:11:26.620 high fashion, global pop diva almost flawlessly. 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.600 It was incredible to watch. Then he brings in 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:33.080 Kanye West for a time, Demi Lovato, J Balvin, 00:11:33.220 --> 00:11:35.360 Martin Garrix. The roster just becomes this. 00:11:36.009 --> 00:11:37.750 It's a who's who. It reads like the Billboard 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:40.850 Top 100 for the entire decade. Carly Rae Jepsen, 00:11:40.970 --> 00:11:43.970 Tori Kelly, David Guetta, the Kiddly Aras. Hit 00:11:43.970 --> 00:11:47.149 after hit after hit. But managing that much ego, 00:11:47.330 --> 00:11:49.370 that much talent, that much pressure. I mean, 00:11:49.389 --> 00:11:50.970 it has to be a complete nightmare. It's got to 00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:52.990 be high stress. And we saw the cracks eventually, 00:11:53.230 --> 00:11:55.450 right? The relationship with Kanye imploded, 00:11:55.509 --> 00:11:57.789 which, to be fair, is kind of a pattern with 00:11:57.789 --> 00:11:59.889 Kanye. Right. That's not unique to Scooter. And 00:11:59.889 --> 00:12:02.129 then in 2023, there was that bizarre week where 00:12:02.129 --> 00:12:03.710 it seemed like every headline was that someone 00:12:03.710 --> 00:12:06.129 else had fired him. Yeah. Demi left. Ariana left 00:12:06.129 --> 00:12:08.210 for a bit, then came back. The media was basically 00:12:08.210 --> 00:12:10.370 writing his obituary as a manager. They were. 00:12:10.529 --> 00:12:12.649 But the thing is, he had already pivoted by then. 00:12:12.710 --> 00:12:14.549 And this is where we get into the empire section 00:12:14.549 --> 00:12:16.909 of this whole story. Because while he was managing 00:12:16.909 --> 00:12:19.490 all these stars, he was quietly, methodically 00:12:19.490 --> 00:12:22.779 building a corporation behind them. sb projects 00:12:22.779 --> 00:12:26.220 because he realized i think that management is 00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:29.080 ultimately a service business it is you serve 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:31.240 the client and if the client decides to leave 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:34.100 you have nothing all that work and your revenue 00:12:34.100 --> 00:12:36.960 stream is gone overnight He wanted to be in the 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.379 asset business. He wanted to own intellectual 00:12:39.379 --> 00:12:41.940 property. Okay, so give us a concrete example 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:44.440 of how that manifested. Okay, look at Never Say 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:46.860 Never, the Justin Bieber documentary from 2011. 00:12:47.259 --> 00:12:49.860 The 3D movie, I remember. A traditional manager 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:52.500 would have just let a studio like Paramount make 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:54.500 that movie, and maybe they'd take an executive 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:57.519 producer fee, a nice little payday. Sure. Braun 00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:59.700 produced it himself through his own company, 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:04.250 SB Projects. The budget was $13 million. It grossed 00:13:04.250 --> 00:13:07.870 nearly $100 million worldwide. That is a staggering 00:13:07.870 --> 00:13:11.129 return on investment. Just unbelievable. Domestically, 00:13:11.190 --> 00:13:13.590 it was the highest grossing music documentary 00:13:13.590 --> 00:13:16.330 of all time until the Taylor Swift era's tour 00:13:16.330 --> 00:13:19.029 movie came along years later. Braun captured 00:13:19.029 --> 00:13:20.970 the value. He didn't just rent Bieber out to 00:13:20.970 --> 00:13:24.110 a studio. He created a product around him that 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:26.860 he owned. And he didn't stop with music docs. 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.279 I was actually surprised when I was looking through 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:33.179 the sources to see his name on the credits for 00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:36.340 Dave, the show on FX with Lil Dicky. Which is 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:38.799 a fantastic show, by the way. It is. And it was 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:40.759 the most watched comedy in the history of the 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:43.139 FX network. That's not a vanity credit. That 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:46.600 is a legitimate, massive hit TV show. And he 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:49.639 also executive produced Scorpion on CBS, which 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.500 was a huge procedural drama that ran for four 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:55.480 seasons. He signed a first look deal with Amazon 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.759 Studios. He even launched a company called Mytho 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.639 Studios with David Maisel. David Maisel. That's 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:03.200 the guy who founded Marvel Studios, right? The 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.500 founding chairman. The guy who came up with the 00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:08.200 whole cinematic universe idea. They started a 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.580 company to produce new comic book franchises. 00:14:10.779 --> 00:14:13.860 This is classic Portfolio Theory 101. Explain 00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:15.639 that for us. What do you mean? If you're just 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.980 a manager, your income is volatile. It depends 00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:21.039 entirely on whether Justin wants to tour this 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.519 year or whether Ariana has a hit song. It goes 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.820 up and down. But if you own a piece of a TV show 00:14:26.820 --> 00:14:29.220 that's in the syndication or a movie that's on 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.740 streaming services or a comic book IP, that revenue 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:36.080 is much more stable and predictable. He was hedging 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.399 his bets against the volatility of pop stars. 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.259 Which sets the stage perfectly for the move that 00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:43.799 turned him from a very rich guy into a certified 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:46.820 billionaire. Yeah. the formation of Ithaca Holdings, 00:14:46.820 --> 00:14:49.940 and the eventual sale to HYBE. This is it. This 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:52.259 is the pinnacle of the mogul method. In April 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:54.820 of 2021, HYBE, the South Korean entertainment 00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:58.279 powerhouse, the company behind BTS, comes knocking. 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.019 So let's ask the question, why did HYBE need 00:15:01.019 --> 00:15:03.980 Scooter Braun? They had BTS. I mean, they were 00:15:03.980 --> 00:15:05.639 literally printing money. They were the biggest 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.259 thing on the planet. They had the biggest band 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:09.539 in the world, yes, but they were also dangerously 00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:12.250 dependent on that one single asset. And they 00:15:12.250 --> 00:15:13.990 had global ambitions. They didn't want to just 00:15:13.990 --> 00:15:15.730 be a K -pop company. They wanted to be a global 00:15:15.730 --> 00:15:17.370 music company. And they needed the foothold in 00:15:17.370 --> 00:15:20.429 the U .S. They needed a real foothold in the 00:15:20.429 --> 00:15:22.690 U .S. market. They needed the connections to 00:15:22.690 --> 00:15:25.850 radio, to brands, to the whole Western media 00:15:25.850 --> 00:15:28.730 infrastructure. Scooter Braun was that infrastructure. 00:15:29.009 --> 00:15:31.190 He had spent 15 years building it. So they didn't 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:33.429 just hire him. They bought his entire holding 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:35.980 company, Ithaca. The whole thing. For an estimated 00:15:35.980 --> 00:15:40.700 price of $1 .5 billion. A billion dollars. Yeah. 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.139 Let that sink in. It's an incredible number. 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.899 A billion dollars for a management and media 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:49.039 company. It was unheard of. So Braun becomes 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.480 the CEO of the New Hype America and he gets a 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.700 seat on the board of the parent company in Korea. 00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:58.070 It was a massive validation. He effectively sold 00:15:58.070 --> 00:16:02.090 his hustle, his network, to a multinational conglomerate. 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:04.370 And I remember reading at the time that he really 00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:06.309 took care of his people in that deal. He did. 00:16:06.429 --> 00:16:08.370 And this is an important detail, I think. He 00:16:08.370 --> 00:16:11.070 carved out about $50 million of his own stock 00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:13.789 allocation from the deal and gifted it to his 00:16:13.789 --> 00:16:15.549 longtime staff, the people who had been with 00:16:15.549 --> 00:16:18.009 him for years. And his biggest clients, Bieber 00:16:18.009 --> 00:16:20.929 and Ariana Grande. They each got about $10 million 00:16:20.929 --> 00:16:23.629 in stock as well. He made sure that the people 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:25.610 who helped build the empire got a piece of the 00:16:25.610 --> 00:16:28.490 exit. So he becomes the CEO of Hybe America, 00:16:28.850 --> 00:16:32.269 and he starts making moves. He acquires Quality 00:16:32.269 --> 00:16:36.980 Control Music for $300 million. QC. The label 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:39.580 home of Migos, Lil Baby, Lil Yachty. Right, bringing 00:16:39.580 --> 00:16:42.440 Coach K and P. Kevin Lee and Pierre Thomas, who 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.059 are absolute legends in the Atlanta trap scene, 00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:47.960 under the Haib umbrella. It was such a full circle 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:49.940 moment, wasn't it? The kid who started out promoting 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:52.320 parties in Atlanta comes back 20 years later 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.720 and buys the biggest, most important hip hop 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.820 label in the city. And then in 2024, the mic 00:16:57.820 --> 00:17:00.759 drop. He officially announces he's retiring from 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:02.720 day to day artist management. He steps away from 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.559 the grind. No more late night calls from artists 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.740 having breakdowns on tour. He focuses purely 00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:10.220 on the CEO role. And then in 2025, he transitions 00:17:10.220 --> 00:17:12.859 again to a board member and senior advisor role. 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:14.740 He's fully corporate now. The transformation 00:17:14.740 --> 00:17:19.019 is complete. But we cannot tell this story. We 00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:21.400 just can't without stopping at the darkest chapter. 00:17:21.789 --> 00:17:24.750 The biggest stain on the resume, the few that 00:17:24.750 --> 00:17:27.009 probably generated more tweets than the 2024 00:17:27.009 --> 00:17:29.670 election. We have to talk about the Taylor Swift 00:17:29.670 --> 00:17:32.329 masters dispute. Yes. And we had to treat this 00:17:32.329 --> 00:17:33.930 carefully because people have very, very strong 00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:36.009 feelings about it. But let's just stick to the 00:17:36.009 --> 00:17:38.029 business facts as they're laid out in our sources. 00:17:38.170 --> 00:17:41.809 Yeah. In 2019, bronze company Ithaca acquires 00:17:41.809 --> 00:17:45.009 Big Machine Label Group. OK. Big Machine was 00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:47.670 Scott Borchetta's label. Borchetta is a guy who 00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:50.089 discovered Taylor Swift when she was just a teenager 00:17:50.089 --> 00:17:52.869 in Nashville. He signed her. And crucially, the 00:17:52.869 --> 00:17:54.950 contract she signed back then stated that the 00:17:54.950 --> 00:17:58.369 label, Big Machine, owned the master recordings 00:17:58.369 --> 00:18:00.930 of her first six albums. OK, we need to do an 00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:04.549 ELI five here. Master recordings. Why does owning 00:18:04.549 --> 00:18:07.569 the master matter so much more than, say, writing 00:18:07.569 --> 00:18:10.410 the song? Think of it like a house. The publishing 00:18:10.410 --> 00:18:12.529 rights, which Taylor owned, that's like the blueprint 00:18:12.529 --> 00:18:14.710 of the house, the lyrics, the melody. But the 00:18:14.710 --> 00:18:16.970 master is the physical house itself. It's the 00:18:16.970 --> 00:18:19.309 actual original recording that you hear on Spotify 00:18:19.309 --> 00:18:22.269 or the radio. So if you want to use that specific 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.130 recording in a movie or in a TV commercial or 00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:28.710 even just stream it, you have to license it from 00:18:28.710 --> 00:18:31.809 the owner of the master. It is the primary revenue 00:18:31.809 --> 00:18:35.190 generating asset from a recording. So when Braun 00:18:35.190 --> 00:18:38.259 bought Big Machine, from his point of view, He 00:18:38.259 --> 00:18:40.160 wasn't trying to hurt Taylor Swift personally. 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.710 From a purely business perspective, no. He was 00:18:43.710 --> 00:18:46.529 buying a catalog of incredibly valuable assets 00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:50.029 that generate predictable, long -term cash flow. 00:18:50.210 --> 00:18:52.069 It's like buying an apartment building to collect 00:18:52.069 --> 00:18:55.109 rent every month. He paid over $300 million for 00:18:55.109 --> 00:18:57.130 the label, and the value was almost entirely 00:18:57.130 --> 00:18:59.789 in those six Swift albums. But Taylor saw it 00:18:59.789 --> 00:19:01.809 very, very differently. She saw it as a profound 00:19:01.809 --> 00:19:04.130 betrayal. She called it her worst -case scenario. 00:19:04.569 --> 00:19:06.789 She claimed she had been bullied by Braun in 00:19:06.789 --> 00:19:08.930 the past. She referenced some social media stuff 00:19:08.930 --> 00:19:12.210 involving Bieber and Kanye. And now, this person 00:19:12.210 --> 00:19:15.259 she despised owned her life's work, her diaries, 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.819 her teenage years. And the central point of controversy 00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:20.359 was this. Did she have a chance to buy them herself 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:23.259 before he did? That is the core of the he said, 00:19:23.299 --> 00:19:26.000 she said. Scott Borchetta, the founder of Big 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.480 Machine, he released texts and statements claiming 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.019 she had been offered a deal to earn her master's 00:19:31.019 --> 00:19:33.700 back over time. Taylor's side claimed that deal 00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:36.619 was manipulative, that she had to earn one old 00:19:36.619 --> 00:19:38.880 album back for every new one she turned into 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.440 the label. She wanted to buy them outright for 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.000 cash, and she says she was never given that specific 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.460 opportunity before Braun swooped in and bought 00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:48.720 the whole company. The public fallout was just, 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.140 it was nuclear. She completely weaponized her 00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:55.700 fan base against Braun. It was a PR catastrophe 00:19:55.700 --> 00:19:59.400 for him, an absolute disaster. But, and here's 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.039 the cold hard business truth of the matter, he 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.460 still won. Financially. Yeah. How did he win? 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.059 Because in 2020, just about a year after buying 00:20:07.059 --> 00:20:09.460 the label, his company, Ithaca, sold just the 00:20:09.460 --> 00:20:11.519 master rights to those six Taylor Swift albums 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.720 to a private equity fund called Shamrock Holdings. 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.460 For how much? The reported price was $405 million. 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.619 Wait, wait. So he bought the entire label with 00:20:21.619 --> 00:20:24.039 all his artists for around $300 million? A little 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:26.579 over $300, yeah. And then he sold just the Taylor 00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:30.759 Swift masters for $405 million. Correct. Ithaca 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.819 is estimated to have made a net profit of $265 00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:38.519 million on that specific flip. Braun's personal 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.460 net from the entire Big Machine deal by 2023 00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:45.619 was close to $400 million. He treated the art 00:20:45.619 --> 00:20:48.220 like a stock, he bought it, it appreciated, and 00:20:48.220 --> 00:20:50.950 he sold it for a massive game. But Taylor kind 00:20:50.950 --> 00:20:53.430 of had the last laugh in a way. The Taylor's 00:20:53.430 --> 00:20:55.470 version re -recordings. Which was a genuinely 00:20:55.470 --> 00:20:58.369 brilliant strategic move. By re -recording all 00:20:58.369 --> 00:21:01.009 those old songs, she created new masters that 00:21:01.009 --> 00:21:03.630 she owned completely. She encouraged her fans, 00:21:03.750 --> 00:21:06.470 movie studios, ad agencies, everyone to use her 00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:09.269 versions, which effectively devalued the asset 00:21:09.269 --> 00:21:11.730 that Braun had sold to Shamrock. And finally, 00:21:11.809 --> 00:21:14.630 in May of 2025, the headline we all knew was 00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:16.890 coming eventually. Taylor Swift acquired the 00:21:16.890 --> 00:21:19.009 rights to her first six albums. She got them 00:21:19.009 --> 00:21:21.630 back. We don't know the exact details, if she 00:21:21.630 --> 00:21:23.970 bought them outright from Shamrock or if there 00:21:23.970 --> 00:21:26.950 was some complex asset swap. But the loop is 00:21:26.950 --> 00:21:29.869 now closed. She owns her work. Braun made his 00:21:29.869 --> 00:21:33.190 hundreds of millions in profit. It was a brutal, 00:21:33.230 --> 00:21:36.289 ugly war between art and commerce. And somehow, 00:21:36.390 --> 00:21:39.630 both sides ended up richer. It really just highlights 00:21:39.630 --> 00:21:41.710 the fundamental difference in their worldviews. 00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:44.200 For Braun... It was a financial transaction. 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.539 For Swift, it was deeply personal. And I don't 00:21:47.539 --> 00:21:49.880 think those two perspectives can ever truly reconcile. 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:52.700 No, and it changed the music industry forever. 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.640 Every young artist signing a deal now fights 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.660 for control of their masters because of this 00:21:57.660 --> 00:22:00.920 saga. It was a landmark case. Okay, let's pivot 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:03.950 away from the drama to the other. maybe less 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:06.569 known way, Braun actually made his billion. Because 00:22:06.569 --> 00:22:08.710 while all this was going on, while he was fighting 00:22:08.710 --> 00:22:11.049 with Taylor Swift, he was also quietly being 00:22:11.049 --> 00:22:12.950 one of the smartest venture capitalists in Silicon 00:22:12.950 --> 00:22:15.250 Valley. This is the investments chapter. And 00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:17.289 frankly, this is why he's a billionaire. The 00:22:17.289 --> 00:22:19.549 music money is fantastic, but the tech money 00:22:19.549 --> 00:22:22.190 is generational wealth. So he's a partner in 00:22:22.190 --> 00:22:24.349 a firm called TQ Ventures. What did they get 00:22:24.349 --> 00:22:26.450 into early? Get ready for this list. It's kind 00:22:26.450 --> 00:22:31.109 of staggering. Uber, Spotify, Waze, Dropbox, 00:22:31.289 --> 00:22:36.650 Pinterest. Hold on. He was an early investor 00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:39.869 in Uber. Very early. And Spotify. So how does 00:22:39.869 --> 00:22:43.289 a music manager get into the seed rounds of these? 00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:45.250 I mean, these are tech unicorns. How do you get 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:46.990 a seat at that table? It's all about access. 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:50.839 Back in, say, 2010, 2011, these tech founders 00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:53.119 were desperate for cultural relevance. They were 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.980 desperate for cool. They needed celebrities to 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:58.019 use their apps to get them to catch on. Right. 00:22:58.099 --> 00:23:00.400 To get mainstream adoption. Exactly. So Braun 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.640 would go to them and say, I can get Justin Bieber 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.039 to tweet about your new app or I can get Usher 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.119 to use it on stage. But I don't want cash for 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.200 that. I want equity. I want a piece of the company. 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:12.140 That is just it's genius. Yeah. He traded his 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:15.039 client's fame for stock. Precisely. He used his 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:17.569 client's cultural capital to. buy his way into 00:23:17.569 --> 00:23:19.990 the cap tables of what would become the biggest 00:23:19.990 --> 00:23:22.430 tech companies of the decade. So when Uber went 00:23:22.430 --> 00:23:25.329 public, when Spotify had its IPO, those payouts 00:23:25.329 --> 00:23:27.289 for him personally just dwarfed the commission 00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:29.869 he was making on a Bieber tour. And that explains 00:23:29.869 --> 00:23:32.950 the net worth crossing the $1 billion mark in 00:23:32.950 --> 00:23:36.210 2021. It wasn't just a hype deal. It was the 00:23:36.210 --> 00:23:38.789 cumulative effect of all of these tech investments 00:23:38.789 --> 00:23:41.720 cashing out. It creates a flywheel effect. The 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:43.619 more money he made in tech, the more leverage 00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:45.980 and power he had in music. The more power he 00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:48.700 had in music, the more access he got in tech. 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:51.680 It just fed itself. And, you know, he hasn't 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.380 been hoarding at all. We should definitely talk 00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:54.920 about the other side of the ledger here, the 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.259 philanthropy and the politics. Because for a 00:23:57.259 --> 00:24:00.259 guy who is so often painted as this cartoon villain, 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.000 he does a lot of heavy lifting for charity. He 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.819 does. And it's significant, high -impact work. 00:24:06.099 --> 00:24:09.619 Take them. March for our lives. After the Parkland 00:24:09.619 --> 00:24:11.539 school shooting, Braun didn't just write a check. 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:13.980 He and George Clooney were instrumental in actually 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:17.000 organizing the march in D .C. He used his logistical 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.220 expertise, I mean, remember, he's a tour manager 00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:21.940 at heart, to handle the operations of a massive 00:24:21.940 --> 00:24:24.420 political protest. And make a wish. That's another 00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:26.390 big one for him. He's on their board of directors 00:24:26.390 --> 00:24:29.210 now. But even before that, he and his roster 00:24:29.210 --> 00:24:31.990 of artists had granted more wishes than any other 00:24:31.990 --> 00:24:34.410 single organization or celebrity group in the 00:24:34.410 --> 00:24:37.210 charity's history. It's a huge commitment. And 00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:39.150 we have to mention the Stuck With You project 00:24:39.150 --> 00:24:41.869 during COVID. Right, the duet with Bieber and 00:24:41.869 --> 00:24:45.529 Ariana Grande. That song single -handedly raised 00:24:45.529 --> 00:24:47.529 millions of dollars for the First Responders 00:24:47.529 --> 00:24:50.049 Children's Foundation, funding grants for the 00:24:50.049 --> 00:24:53.250 kids of frontline workers. He knows how to mobilize 00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:55.960 his resources for a cause. He's also been very 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.759 active and very vocal regarding the Middle East. 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:15.920 But he also tried to kind of... bridge the divide, 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:18.200 didn't he? He didn't just take one side. He did. 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.640 A few months later, in March 2024, he launched 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.900 a major fundraising initiative with the organization 00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:27.099 CARE .org, and that was specifically for Palestinian 00:25:27.099 --> 00:25:30.660 relief in Gaza. He has tried to maintain this 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.200 very difficult position of supporting his Jewish 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:36.019 heritage while also publicly acknowledging the 00:25:36.019 --> 00:25:37.880 humanitarian disaster happening on the other 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.059 side. It's a very tough tightrope to walk, especially 00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:43.710 in today's climate. But he hasn't stayed silent. 00:25:43.950 --> 00:25:46.029 And politically in the U .S., he's a pretty big 00:25:46.029 --> 00:25:48.269 deal for the Democrats, right? Oh, a mega donor. 00:25:48.609 --> 00:25:51.150 He hosted a huge fundraiser for Hillary Clinton 00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:54.170 at his house back in 2015. He did the same for 00:25:54.170 --> 00:25:58.609 Kamala Harris in 2019. He's deeply, deeply embedded 00:25:58.609 --> 00:26:00.670 in the Democratic Party fundraising machine. 00:26:01.150 --> 00:26:03.450 So let's touch briefly on the personal side. 00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:05.650 Yeah. Because his life, for better or worse, 00:26:05.829 --> 00:26:08.269 has been tabloid fodder for years. For sure. 00:26:08.369 --> 00:26:10.410 He was married to Yale Cohen. She's the founder 00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:13.019 of the charity Fuck Cancer back in... 2014. For 00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:14.539 a while, they were a real power couple. They 00:26:14.539 --> 00:26:16.480 have three kids together, but they divorced in 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.640 2022. Right. And that was finalized right around 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:20.319 the time his professional life was going through 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:22.619 all that chaos we mentioned earlier with clients 00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:25.480 leaving. Yeah. It was a tumultuous period for 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:29.880 him all around. And now it's 2026. Who is he 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:33.849 seeing? Well, the reports as of late 2025 have 00:26:33.849 --> 00:26:36.430 him dating the actress Sydney Sweeney. The actress, 00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:38.650 of course. It keeps him in the ecosystem, you 00:26:38.650 --> 00:26:40.910 know. Even if he's a corporate executive now, 00:26:41.009 --> 00:26:43.170 he's still dating one of the biggest, most talked 00:26:43.170 --> 00:26:46.049 about stars in Hollywood. It just reinforces 00:26:46.049 --> 00:26:48.190 that brand of being right at the center of the 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:50.849 culture. OK, so we have covered a lot of ground. 00:26:51.029 --> 00:26:54.289 The college parties, the Pontiac deal, the Bieber 00:26:54.289 --> 00:26:57.809 discovery. the empire building with SB Projects, 00:26:57.829 --> 00:27:00.529 the billion -dollar Hive acquisition, the Taylor 00:27:00.529 --> 00:27:03.849 Swift war, the tech billions. It is an absolutely 00:27:03.849 --> 00:27:06.410 exhausting list for a guy who is still only in 00:27:06.410 --> 00:27:08.490 his mid -40s. So let's try to synthesize all 00:27:08.490 --> 00:27:12.430 of this. So what here? If I'm a listener, why 00:27:12.430 --> 00:27:15.069 does Scooter Braun's career actually matter to 00:27:15.069 --> 00:27:17.990 me and the music I listen to? I think he represents 00:27:17.990 --> 00:27:20.329 the death of the old music business and the birth 00:27:20.329 --> 00:27:22.509 of the asset management business that just happens 00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:24.609 to deal in music. Unpack that. That's interesting. 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.759 Before Scooter, a manager was kind of a glorified 00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:30.420 babysitter and booking agent. You make sure the 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:33.180 artist showed up on time and, you know, didn't 00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:35.740 do drugs in public. Scooter looked at an artist 00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:38.900 and he saw a startup. He saw IP. He saw a media 00:27:38.900 --> 00:27:42.059 platform. He realized that the music was, in 00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:45.019 a way, just the marketing for the larger brand. 00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:47.799 And he proved that you could build real institutional 00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:51.690 sellable value around that brand. Exactly. By 00:27:51.690 --> 00:27:54.509 selling to Hybe for a billion dollars, he showed 00:27:54.509 --> 00:27:57.549 that a management company, a soft business, could 00:27:57.549 --> 00:28:00.289 be valued like a tech company. He legitimized 00:28:00.289 --> 00:28:02.650 the entire industry in the eyes of Wall Street 00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:05.009 and private equity. But is there a downside to 00:28:05.009 --> 00:28:07.650 that approach? The downside is exactly what we 00:28:07.650 --> 00:28:10.089 saw with the Taylor Swift saga. When you treat 00:28:10.089 --> 00:28:12.829 art strictly as an asset, as just another line 00:28:12.829 --> 00:28:14.509 item on a spreadsheet to be bought and sold, 00:28:14.670 --> 00:28:17.009 you risk stripping away the humanity from it. 00:28:17.029 --> 00:28:19.670 You alienate the creator. You invite rebellion. 00:28:19.950 --> 00:28:21.589 And maybe that's the fundamental tension that's 00:28:21.589 --> 00:28:23.349 going to define the next decade of music. You 00:28:23.349 --> 00:28:25.829 have these massive conglomerates like Hybe and 00:28:25.829 --> 00:28:28.170 Universal trying to own everything. And then 00:28:28.170 --> 00:28:30.930 you have artists fighting for control and ownership 00:28:30.930 --> 00:28:33.210 of their own work. That is the battleground. 00:28:33.369 --> 00:28:35.329 Absolutely. So here's a final thought to leave 00:28:35.329 --> 00:28:38.220 you with. Scooter Braun officially retired from 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:40.960 management in 2024 to go sit on a corporate board. 00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:44.619 Taylor Swift bought her master's back in 2025 00:28:44.619 --> 00:28:48.799 to own her artistic legacy. In a way, they both 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.000 won their respective games. But look at the charts 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:55.720 today in 2026. How many organic grassroots stars 00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:58.640 are there really? Or is everything just an algorithm 00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:01.579 managed by a holding company and optimized for 00:29:01.579 --> 00:29:03.970 TikTok engagement from day one? It feels like 00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:06.930 that happy accident of discovering a Justin Bieber 00:29:06.930 --> 00:29:09.150 on YouTube just can't happen anymore because 00:29:09.150 --> 00:29:11.029 the algorithm is too controlled now. There are 00:29:11.029 --> 00:29:14.130 no accidents. Exactly. So does Scooter Braun's 00:29:14.130 --> 00:29:16.750 career, this whole arc we've discussed, suggest 00:29:16.750 --> 00:29:18.910 that the future of music isn't really about the 00:29:18.910 --> 00:29:21.490 music at all? Is it just about who owns the platforms 00:29:21.490 --> 00:29:24.170 and the IP that control it? I think we're already 00:29:24.170 --> 00:29:26.230 seeing the answer to that. On that cheerful note, 00:29:26.349 --> 00:29:28.089 thanks for diving deep with us. We'll catch you 00:29:28.089 --> 00:29:28.789 next time. Take care.