WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.200 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. It is Monday, 00:00:02.379 --> 00:00:07.099 February 2nd, 2026. Wow. February already. I 00:00:07.099 --> 00:00:09.019 know, right? And if you are listening to this, 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:10.580 you've probably had your coffee, you've checked 00:00:10.580 --> 00:00:12.800 the headlines, and you already know the news 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.039 that, uh... Basically broke the internet late 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:17.800 last night. It was everywhere this morning. We 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:20.019 are fresh off the heels of the Grammys. Yeah. 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.019 And I think we can officially say the Wicked 00:00:22.019 --> 00:00:26.480 Era has reached its zenith. It really has. Defying 00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:30.339 gravity, that duet with Cynthia Erivo took home 00:00:30.339 --> 00:00:34.210 Best Pup Duo Group Performance. You know, it 00:00:34.210 --> 00:00:37.590 feels less like a typical award win and, I don't 00:00:37.590 --> 00:00:40.390 know, more like the final puzzle piece just locking 00:00:40.390 --> 00:00:42.409 into place. That's a great way to put it. We've 00:00:42.409 --> 00:00:44.649 been living in the grip of these films for, what, 00:00:44.689 --> 00:00:48.289 two years now? Part one in late 2024, part two 00:00:48.289 --> 00:00:51.229 just a few months ago in November 2025. Just 00:00:51.229 --> 00:00:53.070 been a whole cultural moment. A huge moment. 00:00:53.149 --> 00:00:56.850 And watching Ariana Grande be Butera, as she's 00:00:56.850 --> 00:00:59.609 credited now, stand on that stage, it just, it 00:00:59.609 --> 00:01:02.009 felt consequential. It really did. And look, 00:01:02.130 --> 00:01:03.950 we could easily spend. an hour just talking about 00:01:03.950 --> 00:01:05.510 the acceptance speech or the dress, but I want 00:01:05.510 --> 00:01:07.989 to zoom out a little. Because seeing her up there 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:10.590 holding a Grammy for a musical theater standard, 00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:14.109 it struck me that we aren't looking at a pop 00:01:14.109 --> 00:01:17.109 star in the traditional sense anymore. We're 00:01:17.109 --> 00:01:19.609 looking at a statistical anomaly. That's the 00:01:19.609 --> 00:01:22.049 perfect way to frame it. It really is. If you 00:01:22.049 --> 00:01:24.069 look at the data, and we have a mountain of it 00:01:24.069 --> 00:01:27.390 today, from billboard charts to box office receipts 00:01:27.390 --> 00:01:31.480 to actual vocal analysis. Her career path just 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:33.739 shouldn't have worked. It shouldn't have. Teen 00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:36.579 idols don't usually become global pop titans. 00:01:36.579 --> 00:01:38.579 It's a very rare thing. And pop titans don't 00:01:38.579 --> 00:01:40.540 usually become critically acclaimed method actors. 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:43.700 That's another jump. Right. And yet she has navigated 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:45.859 every single one of those pivots and not just 00:01:45.859 --> 00:01:48.359 navigated them, but like dominated each stage. 00:01:48.739 --> 00:01:51.260 Exactly. And that is our mission today. We are 00:01:51.260 --> 00:01:53.840 going to deconstruct the architect of pop. I'm 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.359 just going to list her hits, you know. No, this 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:58.939 is about the how. It's about the how. How did 00:01:58.939 --> 00:02:00.840 she build this empire? We're talking about a 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.079 transition from a Nickelodeon sidekick to an 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:05.560 artist with 90 million records sold, a billion 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:08.740 dollar fragrance business, and now a serious 00:02:08.740 --> 00:02:11.159 Hollywood foothold. And we have to talk about 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.639 the resilience required to do that. Because I 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:17.419 think beneath the ponytail and the, you know, 00:02:17.419 --> 00:02:20.219 the diva rumors that the tabloids just love to 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:22.520 feed on. Oh, they love it. There is a level of 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.080 business strategy and, frankly, vocal engineering 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.460 that is honestly terrifying. Let's get into it. 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.419 And to understand the architect, I think we have 00:02:30.419 --> 00:02:32.500 to look at the blueprints. We have to go back 00:02:32.500 --> 00:02:35.479 to Boca Raton, Florida in the 90s. Right. Born 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:38.819 in 1993. Now, usually when we talk about pop 00:02:38.819 --> 00:02:43.039 stars, we hear the rags to riches story. The 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:45.699 kid from nowhere who got a lucky break. This 00:02:45.699 --> 00:02:47.740 is not that story. This is not that. This is 00:02:47.740 --> 00:02:50.219 a story about nature and nurture colliding in 00:02:50.219 --> 00:02:53.300 a very, very specific way. Her mother, Joan, 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.360 is the CEO of a marine communications firm. I 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:58.460 mean, this is high stakes corporate leadership. 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:00.659 Which is a crucial detail I think people miss. 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:03.419 It's so important. When you see Ariana negotiating 00:03:03.419 --> 00:03:06.400 contracts later in life or managing her. brand 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.979 with such precision that isn't accidental no 00:03:08.979 --> 00:03:11.159 it's learned behavior she grew up watching a 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:13.780 woman run a major company that boss mentality 00:03:13.780 --> 00:03:16.039 was modeled for her at the dinner table every 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:18.560 single night absolutely and then you have her 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:21.060 father edward who is a graphic designer so you 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:24.400 get this intersection of like corporate shark 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:27.780 and visual artist right there in her dna this 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:30.719 is an art Exactly. She's of Italian -American 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:33.879 heritage, very proud of the Sicilian and Abruzzese 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:37.520 roots, but it's that blend of business and art 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.340 that I think truly defines her entire approach. 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:42.840 There's a story in the research that I love because 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.240 it sounds like a lie, like something from a biopic, 00:03:46.460 --> 00:03:49.020 but it's completely documented. Oh, I think I 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:50.379 know what you're talking about. She's eight years 00:03:50.379 --> 00:03:53.560 old on a cruise ship. The Gloria Estefan story? 00:03:58.669 --> 00:04:01.669 Gloria Estefan, the Gloria Estefan is there, 00:04:01.789 --> 00:04:04.889 hears her and literally stops to tell her you 00:04:04.889 --> 00:04:06.870 were meant to do this. The validation of that 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:08.689 moment. Just imagine the validation. You're eight 00:04:08.689 --> 00:04:10.629 years old. That plants a seed that no amount 00:04:10.629 --> 00:04:12.490 of rejection later on is ever going to dig up. 00:04:12.530 --> 00:04:14.710 No way. It becomes your origin story. It does. 00:04:14.870 --> 00:04:16.470 Yeah. But what's so interesting is how quickly 00:04:16.470 --> 00:04:18.649 she tried to capitalize on it. You found that 00:04:18.649 --> 00:04:21.029 note about the meeting she took at 14. This is 00:04:21.029 --> 00:04:23.550 my favorite what if moment in her entire story. 00:04:24.370 --> 00:04:26.959 She's 14 years old. She gets a meeting with managers 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:29.519 in L .A., and they ask her what kind of music 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:32.040 she wants to make. Right, and this is 2007, 2008. 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.339 The peak of bubblegum pop. The world is obsessed 00:04:36.339 --> 00:04:39.560 with Hannah Montana, Miley Cyrus, the Jonas Brothers. 00:04:39.740 --> 00:04:42.500 Pure Disney Channel dominance. And this 14 -year 00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:45.079 -old Ariana looks these executives in the eye 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.779 and says, I want to make an R &B album. And they 00:04:47.779 --> 00:04:50.060 left her out of the room. I mean, literally left. 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:52.899 They ask her, who is going to buy a 14 -year 00:04:52.899 --> 00:04:56.240 -old's R &B album? And honestly, commercially 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:59.079 speaking, for that specific year, they probably 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:01.000 weren't wrong. But it shows you that her sonic 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:04.199 identity, her musical soul, was already fully 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:06.240 formed. She didn't want to be a Disney princess. 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:08.980 She wanted to be India Aerie or Mariah. Her goal 00:05:08.980 --> 00:05:12.600 was set. But since that R &B door was slammed 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.220 in her face. You found a window. A very different 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:18.500 kind of window. Theater. Specifically, Broadway. 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.939 She lands a role in the musical 13 at age 15. 00:05:22.430 --> 00:05:24.329 She plays a character named Charlotte. It wasn't 00:05:24.329 --> 00:05:25.790 the lead, right? She was a supporting character. 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:28.490 Yeah, right. But it got her to New York. It got 00:05:28.490 --> 00:05:31.189 her professional discipline. You know, eight 00:05:31.189 --> 00:05:34.050 shows a week. That's a grind. And that led directly 00:05:34.050 --> 00:05:35.670 to the casting call that changed everything. 00:05:36.490 --> 00:05:38.430 Nickelodeon's Victorious. Enter Cat Valentine. 00:05:38.589 --> 00:05:40.930 The character that made her famous. And in some 00:05:40.930 --> 00:05:42.610 ways, the character she spent the next decade 00:05:42.610 --> 00:05:44.529 trying to kill. It's so interesting, though, 00:05:44.569 --> 00:05:47.339 because Victorious was huge. It had the second 00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:50.480 largest audience for a live action series on 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:53.319 Nickelodeon at the time. A massive hit. But she 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:56.220 wasn't the star. She wasn't. Victoria Justice 00:05:56.220 --> 00:05:59.660 was the star. Ariana was the comedic relief, 00:05:59.939 --> 00:06:02.540 the quirky sidekick. Which was probably a blessing 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:06.300 in disguise. How so? Well, being the funny sidekick 00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:07.980 meant she didn't have to carry the pressure of 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:10.459 the show, but she stole every single scene she 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:13.360 was in. She was the breakout character. However, 00:06:13.500 --> 00:06:15.259 we have to talk about the cost of that rule. 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:18.060 Let's talk about it. Specifically, the hair. 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:20.420 The red velvet cupcake hair. It was iconic. It 00:06:20.420 --> 00:06:22.639 looks iconic in retrospect, but you have to understand, 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.600 she was required to bleach and dye her hair bright 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:29.339 red every other week. Every other week. For four 00:06:29.339 --> 00:06:32.240 years straight. Wow. I read about this. By the 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.639 time the show wrapped, her natural hair was just 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.800 completely destroyed, like brittle and breaking 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:40.759 off. Exactly. It was fried. And this is where 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:43.199 the architect mindset kicks in. A normal person 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.019 would just wear a hat or cut it all off. She 00:06:45.019 --> 00:06:47.680 didn't do that. No, she created a brand. She 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:49.800 started wearing extensions and pulling them into 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:53.579 that high, tight ponytail. It started as a necessity, 00:06:53.740 --> 00:06:56.579 a way to hide the damage. But she turned it into 00:06:56.579 --> 00:06:58.319 a silhouette. She turned it into a silhouette. 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:00.839 Think about how rare that is. You can identify 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.060 Ariana Grande just by her shadow. That ponytail 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:07.040 became her version of Mickey Mouse ears. It's 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.800 brand genius. It's brilliant branding born from 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.310 a complete hair disaster. But while she's filming 00:07:12.310 --> 00:07:15.230 Victorious and then the spinoff Sam and Cat, 00:07:15.470 --> 00:07:18.470 playing this dim -witted character. She's applauding 00:07:18.470 --> 00:07:20.649 her escape. She's living a total double life. 00:07:20.689 --> 00:07:22.689 She's doing the hustle. I mean, she's filming 00:07:22.689 --> 00:07:25.129 all day, then going home, setting up a webcam 00:07:25.129 --> 00:07:27.709 in her bedroom. And just belting out covers of 00:07:27.709 --> 00:07:30.290 Adele and Mariah Carey. This was the golden age 00:07:30.290 --> 00:07:32.750 of YouTube covers, remember? She wasn't waiting 00:07:32.750 --> 00:07:34.750 for a label to give her permission. She was building 00:07:34.750 --> 00:07:38.149 her own direct consumer fan base one video at 00:07:38.149 --> 00:07:40.899 a time. And it worked. It actually worked. The 00:07:40.899 --> 00:07:43.839 CEO of Republic Records, Monty Lipman, sees one 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.259 of the videos and suddenly the Nickelodeon girl 00:07:46.259 --> 00:07:49.319 has a serious record deal. Which brings us to 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:52.540 2013 and her debut album, Yours Truly. And guess 00:07:52.540 --> 00:07:55.100 what? She finally got to make that R &B album 00:07:55.100 --> 00:07:57.680 she pitched when she was 14. It's such a fascinating 00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:59.819 debut because it sounds nothing like what was 00:07:59.819 --> 00:08:03.259 on the radio in 2013. The radio was just EDM, 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:06.199 Macklemore, blurred lines. Right. It was all 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:10.000 party music. And here comes Ariana. with a 1950s 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.839 doo -wop inspired R &B record. It sounded like 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:15.379 a lost Mariah Carey tape from 1991. It really 00:08:15.379 --> 00:08:17.819 did. And that comparison, the new Mariah, was 00:08:17.819 --> 00:08:20.240 the double -edged sword of her early career, 00:08:20.459 --> 00:08:22.819 wasn't it? Absolutely. On one hand, it's the 00:08:22.819 --> 00:08:25.079 highest compliment you can possibly pay a singer. 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:27.180 On the other hand, it kind of paints you as a 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:29.060 derivative act. Critics were basically saying, 00:08:29.180 --> 00:08:31.360 OK, she has the range, she has the whistle notes, 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.320 but does she have her own identity? The way featuring 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.860 Mac Miller was the answer to that, I think. That 00:08:36.860 --> 00:08:40.559 song was a hit, but it felt authentic. It didn't 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.179 feel like a Disney girl playing dress up. I agree. 00:08:43.299 --> 00:08:45.779 It was a perfect blend of pop sensibility and 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:49.100 genuine R &B flavor. But if yours truly was the 00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:51.320 introduction. The next album was The Takeover. 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:55.139 My everything in 2014. This is where she pivots 00:08:55.139 --> 00:08:59.700 from R &B darling to global pop juggernaut. And 00:08:59.700 --> 00:09:01.379 she did it by bringing in the heavy artillery. 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:03.759 She brought in Max Martin. For those who don't 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:05.320 know, maybe you can just explain the Max Martin 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:09.100 factor. Okay, so Max Martin is this Swedish producer 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:13.259 who is basically the secret architect behind 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:16.000 almost every number one pop hit since Britney's 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.080 Baby One More Time. He's a legend. He treats 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.559 music like math. It's all about formulas. Exactly. 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:23.720 Melody comes first every time. Lyrics are secondary. 00:09:23.820 --> 00:09:26.460 It's about creating a sound that is chemically 00:09:26.460 --> 00:09:30.269 addictive to the human brain. He engineered Ariana's 00:09:30.269 --> 00:09:32.570 sound for maximum impact. And you hear it immediately. 00:09:32.789 --> 00:09:35.990 This is the era of Problem, Break Free, Bang 00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:38.210 Bang. Just monster hits, all of them. And the 00:09:38.210 --> 00:09:40.629 statistics from that time are just ludicrous. 00:09:40.669 --> 00:09:43.809 At one point, she had three singles in the top 00:09:43.809 --> 00:09:45.830 ten of the Billboard Hot 100 simultaneously. 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:49.049 And the only other female lead artist to do that 00:09:49.049 --> 00:09:52.200 up to that point. adele that's it that is the 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:55.580 rarefied air she stepped into at age 21. it's 00:09:55.580 --> 00:09:58.039 insane but this is also where the image shifted 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:00.200 right yeah the floral dresses from the years 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:02.639 truly era were gone gone we got the knee -high 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.679 boots the cat ears the much sexier more adult 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:07.840 vibe it was a very deliberate distancing from 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:11.480 the teen idol persona she was signaling i am 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:14.899 an adult woman I am a sexual being and I am in 00:10:14.899 --> 00:10:17.419 charge now. It's the classic pop star pivot, 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:18.980 but what's interesting is she did it without 00:10:18.980 --> 00:10:21.480 the big rebellion phase. You know, she didn't 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:23.320 shave her head or get arrested. That's a great 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:26.379 point. No bangers era. No, she just put on higher 00:10:26.379 --> 00:10:28.820 boots and sang louder. It was a transition based 00:10:28.820 --> 00:10:31.659 on style, not scandal. And then came Dangerous 00:10:31.659 --> 00:10:34.320 Woman in 2016. I always feel like this album 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:36.279 gets a little overlooked, but this was her earning 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:39.100 respect era. I agree. It was the maturation phase. 00:10:39.419 --> 00:10:41.919 And the key moment here wasn't actually a song. 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:44.379 It was her hosting gig on Saturday Night Live. 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:47.440 Oh, the impression. She hosted in 2016, and she 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.500 did those musical impressions. Jennifer Lawrence, 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:53.039 Celine Dion, Shakira, Britney. That sketch went 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.419 viral instantly, like within minutes. Because 00:10:55.419 --> 00:10:57.899 it revealed two very important things to the 00:10:57.899 --> 00:11:00.299 general public. One, her voice is technically 00:11:00.299 --> 00:11:02.840 limitless. She can mimic anyone, which means 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:04.779 she has total control of her instrument. And? 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:07.480 She is genuinely funny. She has great comedic 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.559 timing. It broke down that ice queen perception 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:12.820 that some people had of her. It humanized her. 00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:15.879 Totally. And statistically, Dangerous Woman proved 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.399 she wasn't a flash in the pan. She became the 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:20.799 first artist in history to have the lead singles 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.019 from her first three albums all debut in the 00:11:23.019 --> 00:11:25.659 top ten. That is just, it's pure consistency. 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.179 But then then, the narrative shatters. We reach 00:11:28.179 --> 00:11:31.259 2017 and we have to talk about Manchester. May 00:11:31.259 --> 00:11:35.259 22, 2017. The Dangerous Woman tour stops at Manchester 00:11:35.259 --> 00:11:38.240 Arena. A suicide bomber attacks the venue as 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.399 people, mostly kids and teenagers, are leaving. 00:11:40.620 --> 00:11:45.059 22 people killed, hundreds injured. It is. It's 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:46.600 unspeakable. There's no other word. It is the 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:49.559 kind of tragedy that ends careers. And not because 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:53.159 of any fault, but just because of the sheer emotional 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:57.549 weight of it. How do you go back on stage? After 00:11:57.549 --> 00:11:59.970 your concert was the site of a massacre. Most 00:11:59.970 --> 00:12:01.809 people wouldn't. They'd retreat. They'd disappear 00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:03.990 for a year and nobody would blame them. But she 00:12:03.990 --> 00:12:06.230 didn't hide. That's what astounds me. Two weeks 00:12:06.230 --> 00:12:08.470 later, she's back in Manchester. The one love 00:12:08.470 --> 00:12:10.889 Manchester benefit concert. And you have to understand, 00:12:10.970 --> 00:12:13.429 this wasn't just a show. This was an incredible 00:12:13.429 --> 00:12:16.350 logistical feat. Oh, the security alone must 00:12:16.350 --> 00:12:18.269 have been a nightmare. Unbelievable security, 00:12:18.649 --> 00:12:21.450 booking. She pulled together Coldplay, Justin 00:12:21.450 --> 00:12:24.450 Bieber, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, all in two weeks. 00:12:24.629 --> 00:12:28.169 And she raised $23 million for the families of 00:12:28.169 --> 00:12:30.330 the victims. The city of Manchester named her 00:12:30.330 --> 00:12:32.570 an honorary citizen. Yeah. Which I think is just 00:12:32.570 --> 00:12:35.169 unprecedented for an American pop star. It showed 00:12:35.169 --> 00:12:37.870 a level of leadership and grit that people honestly 00:12:37.870 --> 00:12:40.649 just didn't know she had. But we also have to 00:12:40.649 --> 00:12:43.500 acknowledge the personal cost. She has been very, 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:47.500 very open about the PTSD, the anxiety, the physical 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.179 toll that event took on her brain and her body. 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:53.580 And that trauma directly influenced the art that 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:57.179 came next, which leads us to Sweetener. In 2018. 00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:59.519 Sweetener is such a fascinating album because 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:02.259 it's kind of anti -pop pop album. She linked 00:13:02.259 --> 00:13:04.080 up with Pharrell Williams for a lot of it. And 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.000 if Max Martin does math. Pharrell is abstract 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.940 painting. Yes. The beats on Sweetener are weird. 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:10.860 They're stilted. They're minimal. They stop and 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:13.379 start. Exactly. The light is coming, has that 00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:16.299 jittery, anxious energy built into the sample. 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.620 And a song like No Tears Left to Cry starts as 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.240 the soaring ballad. And then, bam, it flips into 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.940 a UK garage beat. It was her way of processing 00:13:24.940 --> 00:13:26.799 the chaos in her head, right? The whole album 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:29.399 was about finding joy, the sweetener, in the 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:31.500 middle of a really bitter reality. And critics 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:33.740 loved it. It was a huge critical success. But 00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:36.279 then something completely unprecedented happened. 00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:39.120 This is where things get wild. Usually you tour 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.720 an album for a year, maybe two years. You milk 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:44.480 it for all it's worth. Ariana dropped Sweetener 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:48.039 in August 2018, and by February 2019, she had 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.519 already dropped an entirely new album. Thank 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.200 you. Next. The Imperial Phase. Okay, explain 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:54.799 that term for the listeners who might not have 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:57.360 heard it. The Imperial Phase is a term that was 00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:59.779 coined by the musician Neil Tennant of the Pet 00:13:59.779 --> 00:14:03.600 Shop Boys. It means that singular moment in an 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.299 artist's career where they have complete commercial 00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:09.120 and creative dominance. They can do no wrong. 00:14:09.379 --> 00:14:11.480 Everything they touch turns to platinum. Everything. 00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:14.539 And the strategy for Thank U, Next was just, 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:18.240 it was wild. She told her team, I want to drop 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.440 music like a rapper. Which was a massive disruption 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.940 to the major label model. A huge disruption. 00:14:24.059 --> 00:14:26.720 Usually you have a six -month rollout plan, radio 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:29.960 promo, magazine covers, press tours. She just 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.139 recorded songs and put them out. She was moving 00:14:32.139 --> 00:14:33.980 at the speed of culture, not at the speed of 00:14:33.980 --> 00:14:35.840 a marketing department. And the title track, 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:38.940 Thank You, Next. I remember exactly where I was 00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:41.240 when that dropped. Everyone does. She literally 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:45.279 named her ex -boyfriends. Big Sean, Ricky Alvarez, 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:48.620 Pete Davidson, Mac Miller. In anyone else's hands, 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.240 that is a diss track. That is petty celebrity 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:53.480 drama. But she flipped the script completely. 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.460 She made it about gratitude. One taught me love. 00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:59.059 One taught me patience. One taught me pain. It 00:14:59.059 --> 00:15:01.179 wasn't look what you did to me. It was look what 00:15:01.179 --> 00:15:03.340 I learned from you. It was a self -love anthem 00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:06.100 disguised as celebrity gossip. It was genius. 00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:09.039 And the commercial result was genuinely historic. 00:15:09.220 --> 00:15:11.779 We have to be clear about this. February 2019. 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:16.559 The Billboard Hot 100. She held the number one, 00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:18.919 the number two, and the number three spots simultaneously. 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:21.120 With seven rings, break up with your girlfriend 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.980 on board and thank you next. And the only other 00:15:23.980 --> 00:15:26.059 act to ever do that in the history of the chart 00:15:26.059 --> 00:15:29.860 was The Beatles in 1964. Let that sink in. The 00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:32.100 Beatles. That's the company she's in. It's a 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:34.399 staggering comparison, but I want to point out 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.139 the difference in how it happened because it's 00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:38.779 important. Okay. The Beatles did it with physical 00:15:38.779 --> 00:15:42.340 singles and total radio dominance. Ariana did 00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:45.200 it by basically hacking the streaming algorithm. 00:15:45.259 --> 00:15:48.860 How so? Explain that. Look at a song like Seven 00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:52.480 Rings. It starts with a hook from My Favorite 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.590 Things. which is instantly recognizable. It's 00:15:55.590 --> 00:15:59.029 short under three minutes. The trap beat is repetitive 00:15:59.029 --> 00:16:02.009 and hypnotic. It is engineered to be put on a 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:03.769 loop. So people weren't just listening to it 00:16:03.769 --> 00:16:06.500 once? They were streaming it on repeat for hours. 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.500 It broke Spotify records for the fastest song 00:16:09.500 --> 00:16:11.519 to hit 100 million streams because it was the 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:13.840 perfect streaming commodity. It was built for 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.960 the platform. That is such a key insight. She 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:18.980 wasn't just making good songs. She was making 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:21.399 content that fit the consumption model of the 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:24.200 era perfectly. She's the architect. Precisely. 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:27.080 So she ends the decade as arguably the biggest 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:31.100 pop star on the planet. But then 2020 hits. The 00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:33.720 world shuts down the pandemic. Yeah. And we get... 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.039 Position. The quarantine album, and you can hear 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.200 the shift immediately. The world got smaller, 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:40.059 and so her music got more intimate. It's very 00:16:40.059 --> 00:16:42.659 R &B, very string heavy. Very. It's about domestic 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:45.259 bliss. She was with Dalton Gomez at the time, 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.320 and the lyrics are all about being in the kitchen, 00:16:47.419 --> 00:16:49.120 being in the bedroom. It wasn't about the club 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:51.360 anymore. The world had changed. But even in a 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.899 quiet, introspective era, she broke records. 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.309 Positions debuted at number one. making her the 00:16:57.309 --> 00:16:59.929 first artist in history to have five number one 00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:02.470 debuts on the Hot 100. She just keeps racking 00:17:02.470 --> 00:17:05.549 up these first ever two svats. It's almost mundane 00:17:05.549 --> 00:17:07.549 at this point. But I think the most important 00:17:07.549 --> 00:17:09.990 thing about the Positions era was the vocal production. 00:17:10.450 --> 00:17:12.349 This is where we need to get technical for a 00:17:12.349 --> 00:17:13.890 second. Please, let's do it. Because I think 00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:16.529 people hear her voice and just think, oh, natural 00:17:16.529 --> 00:17:19.630 talent. But there's so much engineering involved. 00:17:19.910 --> 00:17:23.210 Right. So Ariana Grande is a credited vocal producer 00:17:23.210 --> 00:17:25.730 on her albums. That is a credit she fights for. 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:28.180 And she absolutely deserves it. She sits at the 00:17:28.180 --> 00:17:30.240 computer with Pro Tools, you know, those huge 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.059 stacks of harmonies you hear in her songs where 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:35.619 it sounds like a literal choir of angels. The 00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:37.799 choir of Arianas, yeah. She records those herself. 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.759 Every single note, she will layer 30, 40, 50 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:43.420 tracks of her own voice, harmonizing with herself 00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:46.400 in intricate ways. She cuts them. She aligns 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.700 them. She adds the reverb. And Mac Miller taught 00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:50.470 her how to do that. All right. He taught her 00:17:50.470 --> 00:17:52.170 how to use the software and she apparently became 00:17:52.170 --> 00:17:54.289 obsessed with it. So when you listen to a song 00:17:54.289 --> 00:17:58.490 like POV, that rich, complex vocal texture, that 00:17:58.490 --> 00:18:00.769 is her engineering skills at work, not just her 00:18:00.769 --> 00:18:02.869 singing chops. That's amazing. It's like she's 00:18:02.869 --> 00:18:05.230 the architect of the entire soundscape, not just 00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:06.970 the singer standing in the booth. That's exactly 00:18:06.970 --> 00:18:08.769 what it is. So we move through the pandemic. 00:18:09.150 --> 00:18:12.029 She gets married. She launches REM Beauty, which 00:18:12.029 --> 00:18:14.589 we'll definitely get to. But then the music. 00:18:14.789 --> 00:18:18.140 Yeah. It just stops. for three years which is 00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:20.700 a lifetime in pop years a long time and when 00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:23.700 she comes back in 2024 with eternal sunshine 00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:26.740 it feels different again eternal sunshine which 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:29.140 has been out for about two years now was a critical 00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:32.339 peak for her she pivoted again this time to house 00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:35.640 and dance music songs like yes and channeled 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:38.720 that whole vogue era madonna energy and we can't 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.579 be friends That synth pop sound was huge. It 00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:44.160 was mature. It was sophisticated. And she played 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.359 the charts again, too. She released a deluxe 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.539 edition, Brighter Days Ahead, in 2025, specifically 00:18:49.539 --> 00:18:52.259 to push the album back to number one a full year 00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:54.700 after its release. She knows how to game the 00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:57.160 system. But the reason for the hiatus wasn't 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:00.099 burnout. It wasn't writer's block. It was a different 00:19:00.099 --> 00:19:03.500 dream. It was wicked. The green girl. Or, well, 00:19:03.579 --> 00:19:06.079 the pink girl. Glinda. And this wasn't just a 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.500 casting offer someone gave her. She fought for 00:19:08.500 --> 00:19:11.279 this role. Oh, she fought hard. She auditioned 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:13.920 five times. She basically stalked the producers 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.740 for the part. And we have to talk about the risk 00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:18.779 she took here. It was a huge risk. She was at 00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:22.019 the absolute peak of her pop powers. The imperial 00:19:22.019 --> 00:19:24.480 phase wasn't that far behind her. And she walked 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.000 away to go to what was essentially movie set 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.019 boot camp for two years. And she changed her 00:19:29.019 --> 00:19:32.200 name in the credits. To Ariana Grande Butera. 00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:35.140 That was such a lovely touch. She saw the original 00:19:35.140 --> 00:19:37.140 Wicked on Broadway when she was 10 years old. 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:39.440 She used her birth name then. Putting Butera 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.859 back in the credits was her way of saying, this 00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:43.579 is for the 10 -year -old girl in the audience, 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.440 not the pop star. A full circle moment. But let's 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:48.619 talk about the voice again. Because if you listen 00:19:48.619 --> 00:19:51.319 to the Wicked soundtrack, she does not sound 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:54.460 like the girl who sang Seven Rings. It's a different 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:57.740 person. Not at all. She completely deconstructed 00:19:57.740 --> 00:19:59.869 and rebuilt her vocal technique. What does that 00:19:59.869 --> 00:20:02.589 mean exactly? Okay, so in pop music, she uses 00:20:02.589 --> 00:20:05.210 a lot of breathiness, a lot of vocal fry, and 00:20:05.210 --> 00:20:08.029 a lower, more relaxed placement in the throat. 00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:11.490 It's contemporary, it's cool. For Wicked, for 00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:14.470 musical theater, she had to learn legit soprano 00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:17.490 technique. Which means? Higher placement, more 00:20:17.490 --> 00:20:20.250 forward resonance in the mask of the face, a 00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:22.970 clear, rounded vibrato, and this is the most 00:20:22.970 --> 00:20:25.829 important part, impeccable. diction the dixon 00:20:25.829 --> 00:20:27.750 people used to joke that they needed subtitles 00:20:27.750 --> 00:20:30.109 for her pop songs because she slurred her words 00:20:30.109 --> 00:20:32.650 so much and that slurring was a stylistic choice 00:20:32.650 --> 00:20:35.470 it's part of the r &b sound yeah but glinda the 00:20:35.470 --> 00:20:37.930 good witch cannot mumble no she can't she spent 00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:40.369 months with vocal coaches retraining her muscle 00:20:40.369 --> 00:20:43.349 memory to enunciate every single consonant it's 00:20:43.349 --> 00:20:45.250 like a world -class sprinter training to run 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:47.769 a marathon you're using a completely different 00:20:47.769 --> 00:20:49.609 set of muscles and the result was a cultural 00:20:49.609 --> 00:20:53.480 juggernaut Wicked part one grossed $759 million 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.559 worldwide. The highest grossing musical adaptation 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.400 of all time. And part two just solidified it. 00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:02.099 She got the Oscar nomination for supporting actress. 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.059 She got the Grammy we mentioned at the start. 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:06.519 She proved that she isn't just a singer who can 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.119 act. She is an actress who can sing. There's 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.059 a difference. And now she's saying on podcasts 00:21:11.059 --> 00:21:14.000 that she might want to stick with acting. That 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.079 she's, and I'm quoting, tired. of the pop star 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.000 machine and frankly can you blame her she's conquered 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.440 it i mean what is left for her to prove on the 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.339 hot 100 before we look at the future though we 00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:28.900 have to look at the other empire the money because 00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.420 ariana grande is a business titan let's talk 00:21:31.420 --> 00:21:33.759 about the perfume because this is a master class 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.819 in product positioning and market understanding 00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:39.369 celebrity perfumes are usually Well, let's be 00:21:39.369 --> 00:21:42.009 honest. They're usually cheap, sugary water sold 00:21:42.009 --> 00:21:44.849 at drugstores, or they're vanity projects that 00:21:44.849 --> 00:21:47.170 lose money and disappear in a year. Right. But 00:21:47.170 --> 00:21:49.630 Ariana's fragrance line has generated over $1 00:21:49.630 --> 00:21:53.809 billion in global retail sales. $1 billion. And 00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:57.230 the key to that insane success is a single scent 00:21:57.230 --> 00:22:00.069 called Cloud. I see this bottle everywhere, the 00:22:00.069 --> 00:22:02.869 little blue cloud shape. Okay, so here is the 00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:06.329 genius of Cloud. In the luxury perfume world, 00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:08.990 there is a very famous, very expensive scent 00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:13.250 called Baccarat Rouge 540. It costs about $325 00:22:13.250 --> 00:22:16.410 a bottle. Okay. It is the rich person's smell. 00:22:16.490 --> 00:22:19.049 It's what every influencer and celebrity wears. 00:22:19.309 --> 00:22:21.990 I got it. Ariana and her team created Cloud to 00:22:21.990 --> 00:22:25.069 be a near identical dupe. a duplicate of Baccarat 00:22:25.069 --> 00:22:28.589 Rouge 540, but they sold it at Ulta for $65. 00:22:29.009 --> 00:22:31.950 Oh, that is smart. That is so smart. It is brilliant 00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:34.589 value engineering. She didn't just sell her name. 00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:37.490 She democratized a luxury product. People weren't 00:22:37.490 --> 00:22:39.710 just buying it because they were her fans. They 00:22:39.710 --> 00:22:41.569 were buying it because it smelled like a $300 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:43.670 product for a fraction of the price. So it had 00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:46.289 value outside of her brand. Exactly. That is 00:22:46.289 --> 00:22:48.609 why it was selling one bottle every 11 seconds 00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:51.349 at its peak in 2022. That is the inside I was 00:22:51.349 --> 00:22:52.950 looking for. It wasn't just fandom. It was a 00:22:53.130 --> 00:22:56.269 market arbitrage. She found a gap and exploited 00:22:56.269 --> 00:22:58.849 it. Precisely. And that success gave her the 00:22:58.849 --> 00:23:00.829 leverage on the Capitol to launch R .E .M. Beauty 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:03.690 in 2021. And unlike some other celebrity brands 00:23:03.690 --> 00:23:06.170 that just slap a logo on generic formulas, she 00:23:06.170 --> 00:23:08.450 was very specific. What was her focus? She focused 00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:11.390 on high margin, specific items like highlighters 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:13.490 and lip oils that fit her personal aesthetic. 00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:17.269 She partnered with Ulta again, driving massive 00:23:17.269 --> 00:23:19.809 foot traffic into their stores. It's a very well 00:23:19.809 --> 00:23:22.609 -oiled machine. It really is. But looking at 00:23:22.609 --> 00:23:24.210 her personal life, she's also made some very 00:23:24.210 --> 00:23:26.349 deliberate moves to protect herself from that 00:23:26.349 --> 00:23:30.740 machine. In 2021, she just deleted Twitter. Which 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:32.859 was a massive deal at the time. She was the queen 00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:35.579 of Twitter interaction. Her fans lived for it. 00:23:35.660 --> 00:23:37.779 But she called it toxic and she walked away. 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:39.859 And she was right. It was a mental health move. 00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:42.700 She realized that that kind of direct access 00:23:42.700 --> 00:23:45.259 to millions of people, to their opinions and 00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:48.160 their criticisms, creates a feedback loop that 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.799 is impossible to manage emotionally. She set 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.619 a boundary, a very public one. She did. And she's 00:23:53.619 --> 00:23:56.539 kept it. She uses Instagram and TikTok to broadcast, 00:23:56.900 --> 00:23:58.759 but she doesn't engage in the weeds anymore. 00:23:58.900 --> 00:24:02.039 It's a much safer, more controlled way to interact 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.559 with her fame. And she uses that massive platform 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:07.059 for advocacy, too. We can't ignore that part 00:24:07.059 --> 00:24:09.799 of her story. No, absolutely not. Her support 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:12.059 for the LGBTQ plus community is foundational 00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:15.240 to her brand and her personal life. Her brother 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.599 Frankie is gay. And she famously left the Catholic 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:20.559 Church because of their stance on it. And she 00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:22.240 puts her money where her mouth is. She does. 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:26.380 She pledged to match $1 .5 million for a fund 00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:29.559 protecting trans youth. She's politically active, 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.779 endorsing Biden and Harris. She uses her platform 00:24:32.779 --> 00:24:35.220 for more than just selling products. So here 00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:38.640 we are, February 2026. She's won the Grammy for 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.559 a Broadway song. Wicked is a historic success. 00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:45.099 She has the billion dollar business empire. What 00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:47.259 is next? Well, in the immediate future, she has 00:24:47.259 --> 00:24:49.160 to go back to work. The Eternal Sunshine tour 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:51.859 kicks off in June. Her first tour since 2019. 00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:54.480 That is going to be a very emotional moment for 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.660 fans who've been waiting for years. It will be 00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:59.079 a victory lap, a celebration of the last three 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:01.440 albums and the entire Wicked era. The ticket 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.480 demand is going to be astronomical. It's going 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.369 to break records. But after the tour. You mentioned 00:25:07.369 --> 00:25:09.089 she's filming a new season of American Horror 00:25:09.089 --> 00:25:12.990 Story. Yes. Season 13, filming this spring, and 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:16.480 then the big one, the real pivot. She has signed 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.200 on to star in a revival of Sunday in the Park 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:23.859 with George on stage in London in 2027. Sondheim. 00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:27.420 Sondheim. That is serious, serious musical theater. 00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:30.039 That is not pop music. That's a whole other level 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:32.279 of difficulty and prestige. That is the move 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.539 of someone who wants a Tony Award to put next 00:25:34.539 --> 00:25:36.660 to her Grammy. So let me pose this final question 00:25:36.660 --> 00:25:39.950 to you then. We've watched Ariana Grande conquer 00:25:39.950 --> 00:25:42.549 the teen sitcom. We've watched her conquer the 00:25:42.549 --> 00:25:44.569 Billboard charts. We've watched her conquer the 00:25:44.569 --> 00:25:47.349 beauty counter. And now she's conquered the cinema. 00:25:47.490 --> 00:25:50.410 She has. With this clear shift towards Sondheim 00:25:50.410 --> 00:25:53.069 and more serious acting, are we witnessing the 00:25:53.069 --> 00:25:55.849 end of Ariana the pop star? Was the imperial 00:25:55.849 --> 00:25:58.190 phase just a stepping stone to get here? Are 00:25:58.190 --> 00:26:00.109 we looking at the beginning of Ariana the ego 00:26:00.109 --> 00:26:02.789 pin contender? I think the answer is unequivocally 00:26:02.789 --> 00:26:05.410 yes. She has the Grammys, she has the Oscar nomination, 00:26:05.690 --> 00:26:08.829 and a win is very possible in her future. She's 00:26:08.829 --> 00:26:11.349 heading to the London stage for the Tony. Finding 00:26:11.349 --> 00:26:13.529 a strong Emmy project, maybe American Horror 00:26:13.529 --> 00:26:15.650 Story, maybe something else, is well within her 00:26:15.650 --> 00:26:18.089 reach. So the ponytail's retired. I think the 00:26:18.089 --> 00:26:21.269 ponytail pop star is retired. The artist Ariana 00:26:21.269 --> 00:26:24.329 Grande Butera is just getting started. I would 00:26:24.329 --> 00:26:26.069 not bet against her. It's going to be fascinating 00:26:26.069 --> 00:26:28.349 to watch. Thanks for unpacking all of this with 00:26:28.349 --> 00:26:30.849 us. Always a pleasure. And thank you for listening. 00:26:31.210 --> 00:26:32.369 We'll see you on the next deep dive.