WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.240 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today, we're taking 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:08.699 a swing at a figure who is, frankly, just unavoidable. 00:00:08.740 --> 00:00:12.039 And I have to admit, when I saw this topic come 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:14.199 up in our stack, I rolled my eyes a little. Oh, 00:00:14.300 --> 00:00:16.480 I saw that eye roll. I did. Because usually, 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.160 you know, we're tackling hard science or these 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:22.059 huge historical turning points, economic shifts. 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:25.000 And today... We're talking about Kris Jenner. 00:00:25.019 --> 00:00:28.260 And I get it. I really do. It's so easy to just 00:00:28.260 --> 00:00:30.859 dismiss her as the queen of tabloids or, you 00:00:30.859 --> 00:00:32.840 know, the woman who made a fortune off her family's 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:34.740 dirty laundry. Right. That's the public image. 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:37.960 But hear me out. If you strip away the vocal 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.340 fry and the salad shaking and all the memes. 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:42.820 Yeah. You are looking at one of the most effective 00:00:42.820 --> 00:00:45.219 business operators of the last 50 years. OK, 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.280 hold on. That is a massive claim. Business operator. 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:51.679 That implies strategy, spreadsheets, forecasting. 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:53.880 I think most people think her strategy is just 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:55.700 turn on the camera and wait for someone to cry. 00:00:55.859 --> 00:00:58.380 And that's exactly why we need to do this deep 00:00:58.380 --> 00:01:00.939 dive, because that perception, that right there, 00:01:01.060 --> 00:01:04.579 that's part of the product. It's February 2026. 00:01:05.530 --> 00:01:08.409 Kris Jenner is 70 years old. She's not just a 00:01:08.409 --> 00:01:11.290 reality TV star anymore. She is the architect 00:01:11.290 --> 00:01:14.849 of a multigenerational billion -dollar conglomerate 00:01:14.849 --> 00:01:18.230 that has completely disrupted the cosmetics industry, 00:01:18.430 --> 00:01:20.069 the beverage industry, the fashion industry, 00:01:20.370 --> 00:01:24.170 and the media landscape itself. 70. Wow. Yeah. 00:01:24.310 --> 00:01:27.480 That's wild to think about. It is. She started 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:30.799 as a flight attendant in 1976. Now, 50 years 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.599 later, she's basically the CEO of a family corporation 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:36.019 that has a higher GDP than some small countries. 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.560 That's insane. So the mission today isn't to 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.920 recap who dated who. I honestly do not care about 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:42.859 the gossip. Thank you. I want to reverse engineer 00:01:42.859 --> 00:01:44.739 the machine. How does she actually do it? How 00:01:44.739 --> 00:01:46.799 do you turn 15 minutes of fame, which is what 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:48.739 everyone, and I mean everyone, said this was 00:01:48.739 --> 00:01:52.019 back in 2007, into a 20 -year dynasty? That is 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:53.840 the part that gets me. It's the longevity. We've 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.790 seen so many reality stars just... Burn bright 00:01:56.790 --> 00:01:59.290 and then completely vanish? Oh, for sure. The 00:01:59.290 --> 00:02:02.150 Jersey Shore cast, the Real Housewives, they 00:02:02.150 --> 00:02:05.129 have a peak and then they fade. The Kardashian 00:02:05.129 --> 00:02:07.290 -Jenner machine, it just seems to reload. So, 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:10.830 okay. I'm willing to be convinced if this is 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:13.919 a master class in branding. Where does the syllabus 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.060 even start? We have to go back to the beginning. 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:17.580 And I don't mean the start of the show. We need 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:20.180 to look at the origin story because it explains 00:02:20.180 --> 00:02:22.939 the hunger. You don't build an empire like this 00:02:22.939 --> 00:02:25.099 because you're comfortable. You do it because 00:02:25.099 --> 00:02:26.840 you're terrified of losing everything. Okay, 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:30.319 so we're talking San Diego, 1955. Correct. Born 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.460 Kristen Mary Houghton. Her father, Bob, he was 00:02:33.460 --> 00:02:36.340 an engineer. And her mom, Mary Jo MJ, who, you 00:02:36.340 --> 00:02:38.159 know, fans of the show definitely know. Oh, yeah, 00:02:38.180 --> 00:02:40.939 MJ. She ran a children's clothing store. The 00:02:40.939 --> 00:02:43.199 foundational trauma, it happens really early. 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.460 Her parents divorce when she's just seven years 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:48.539 old. Seven. That's tough. Her dad essentially 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:50.919 just disappears from her daily life. And then 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:52.840 this is the really tragic part. He dies in a 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.900 car crash down in Mexico when she's 19. 19. That's 00:02:55.900 --> 00:02:58.159 such a brutal age to lose a parent. You're just 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:00.419 kind of becoming an adult. And then, boom, the 00:03:00.419 --> 00:03:03.520 safety net is just gone. It forces a kind of 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:08.210 an accelerated maturity. By 1976, she's working 00:03:08.210 --> 00:03:10.030 for American Airlines as a flight attendant. 00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:12.409 And I really want to pause here because people 00:03:12.409 --> 00:03:14.789 gloss over this part. They just see it as a line 00:03:14.789 --> 00:03:17.789 on her resume. Exactly. Just a job she had. But 00:03:17.789 --> 00:03:20.409 you have to think about what being a flight attendant 00:03:20.409 --> 00:03:22.610 in the 70s actually entailed. It wasn't just 00:03:22.610 --> 00:03:24.469 serving peanuts, right? It was still the golden 00:03:24.469 --> 00:03:27.909 age of travel. But it was also incredibly demanding. 00:03:28.250 --> 00:03:31.430 Yeah. The appearance, the demeanor, all of that. 00:03:31.509 --> 00:03:34.340 It was grueling. emotional labor. I mean, think 00:03:34.340 --> 00:03:37.139 about it. You are stuck in a metal tube with 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:40.659 demanding, often wealthy people, and your job 00:03:40.659 --> 00:03:42.800 is to make them feel comfortable, to handle their 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:45.819 tantrums, to maintain a perfect aesthetic, and 00:03:45.819 --> 00:03:48.319 to never, ever crack. You're managing personalities 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:51.099 at 30 ,000 feet. Right. If that isn't the perfect 00:03:51.099 --> 00:03:53.800 training for managing Kim, Courtney, and Chloe, 00:03:54.020 --> 00:03:56.039 I honestly don't know what is. That's a really 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:57.780 interesting point. It's high stakes customer 00:03:57.780 --> 00:04:00.259 service. You have to learn to read a room instantly. 00:04:00.810 --> 00:04:02.590 Precisely. And she also worked in her mother's 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:05.210 store, Shannon and Company. So she had the service 00:04:05.210 --> 00:04:07.469 element and the retail element completely dialed 00:04:07.469 --> 00:04:10.069 in before she was even 22 years old. But then, 00:04:10.110 --> 00:04:13.389 then she meets Robert Kardashian. The lawyer. 00:04:13.689 --> 00:04:16.949 The OJ connection. Eventually, yes. But in 1978, 00:04:17.230 --> 00:04:19.389 when they got married, he was just a very successful, 00:04:19.629 --> 00:04:22.389 very wealthy lawyer. She stepped into this role 00:04:22.389 --> 00:04:24.889 of the Beverly Hills socialite. Living the good 00:04:24.889 --> 00:04:27.750 life. The good life. She had the four kids, Kourtney, 00:04:27.889 --> 00:04:31.629 Kim, Khloe, Rob. and live this very very comfortable 00:04:31.629 --> 00:04:35.310 life but and this is the first major pivot point 00:04:35.310 --> 00:04:38.470 she blew it all up The affair. The affair. In 00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:40.709 1990, she had an affair with a soccer player, 00:04:40.829 --> 00:04:43.250 a guy named Todd Waterman. Robert found out and 00:04:43.250 --> 00:04:45.709 he filed for divorce. And I really want to emphasize 00:04:45.709 --> 00:04:48.509 the financial reality here. She went from having, 00:04:48.509 --> 00:04:50.410 you know, basically unlimited credit cards in 00:04:50.410 --> 00:04:52.569 a mansion to being a single mom of four with 00:04:52.569 --> 00:04:55.250 a very, very uncertain financial future. She's 00:04:55.250 --> 00:04:56.870 talked about this openly, how she couldn't even 00:04:56.870 --> 00:04:58.670 buy a tomato at the grocery store without worrying 00:04:58.670 --> 00:05:01.939 about the cost. So the hustle. Yeah. It wasn't 00:05:01.939 --> 00:05:03.759 born out of ambition at first. It was born out 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:07.399 of panic. Panic is a powerful, powerful motivator. 00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:10.259 She saw the cliff edge. And that experience of 00:05:10.259 --> 00:05:12.360 almost losing the lifestyle she had grown accustomed 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.660 to, I think that is the engine that drives that 00:05:14.660 --> 00:05:17.040 entire family to this day. The fear. The fear 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.199 that it could all just go away tomorrow. Which 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.180 leads us directly to the rebound. Or, I guess, 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:25.019 the second act. She marries Bruce Jenner. Like, 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:27.819 immediately. One month. One month after her divorce 00:05:27.819 --> 00:05:32.220 was final. April 1991. Now, we look back at Bruce 00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:34.379 Jenner, Caitlyn now, of course, as this huge 00:05:34.379 --> 00:05:38.040 celebrity. Right. But in 1991. Wheaties box was 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.399 a long time ago. A long time ago. The gold medal 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:43.600 was 1976. Bruce was sort of a former celebrity 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.500 at that point. He was doing the lecture circuit, 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:48.680 but the money wasn't flowing like crazy. So you 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.120 have Chris bringing four kids into the marriage. 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:53.759 Bruce is bringing his kids from previous marriages. 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:56.480 Right. Then they have Kendall and Kylie. That 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.920 is a massive household to feed. It's like the 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.600 Brady Bunch, but with way, way higher overhead. 00:06:01.779 --> 00:06:04.079 And this is really where Chris starts to cut 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:07.139 her teeth as a manager. She realized Bruce had 00:06:07.139 --> 00:06:09.259 this amazing name, but it wasn't being monetized 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:11.319 efficiently. He was under leverage. Totally. 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:15.160 So she started revamping his press kit. pushing 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.360 for more speaking gigs. But the real light bulb 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:20.480 moment, the thing that I think is the Rosetta 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.319 Stone for their entire future, was the exercise 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.500 equipment. Wait, like the infomercials? Yes, 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:30.420 specifically QVC. In the 90s, Chris and Bruce 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:33.819 were on QVC all the time selling exercise equipment. 00:06:34.100 --> 00:06:36.519 It's funny. I feel like people look down on QVC 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:39.339 as this kind of bargain bin TV. Yeah. But the 00:06:39.339 --> 00:06:42.339 numbers they do are insane. It is the ultimate 00:06:42.339 --> 00:06:44.560 training ground for modern influence. Seriously, 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:47.000 think about the mechanics of it. You have a product, 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:48.980 you have a camera, and you have to talk directly 00:06:48.980 --> 00:06:50.839 to the consumer for 10, 20 minutes straight. 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.279 You have to create urgency. Urgency, intimacy. 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:55.699 You have to make them feel like they know you. 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.139 And because they know you, they should trust 00:06:57.139 --> 00:06:58.660 you. And because they trust you, they should 00:06:58.660 --> 00:07:00.879 absolutely buy this stair stepper. It's the proto 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.019 -influencer model. It's literally link in bio 00:07:04.019 --> 00:07:07.139 before the internet. Spot on. She learned right 00:07:07.139 --> 00:07:09.180 then that she could move units by leveraging 00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:12.920 personality. But by the mid -2000s, things were 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:15.100 getting paid again. The kids were growing up. 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.620 The lecture circuit was drying up. And then in 00:07:17.620 --> 00:07:20.439 2007, she takes a meeting with Ryan Seacrest. 00:07:20.860 --> 00:07:23.920 This is the moment. The big bang of the whole 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:27.000 Kardashian universe. It really is. Seacrest was 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:29.139 looking for a new Osbournes. You remember that 00:07:29.139 --> 00:07:31.360 show, Ozzy and Sharon? Oh, of course. It was 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.199 huge because it was just so chaotic and dysfunctional. 00:07:34.220 --> 00:07:35.980 That's the energy he wanted. And Kris pitched 00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:39.100 her family. But the pitch wasn't we are talented 00:07:39.100 --> 00:07:43.339 or we are interesting. The pitch was we are crazy. 00:07:43.779 --> 00:07:46.300 She literally told him, quote, it would be natural. 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:48.980 She knew her house was a pressure cooker. You 00:07:48.980 --> 00:07:50.879 had the older girls running wild in L .A. You 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:52.579 had the Olympian dad trying to maintain some 00:07:52.579 --> 00:07:54.500 semblance of order. You had the little kids running 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:56.959 around. She realized that her liability, the 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.180 chaos of her blended family, was actually an 00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:01.240 asset if she framed it right. And Keeping Up 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.620 with the Kardashians launches in October 2007. 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:06.470 And the ratings were immediate. But here is where 00:08:06.470 --> 00:08:09.050 the business operator distinction really comes 00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:12.089 in. A normal person would have been thrilled 00:08:12.089 --> 00:08:14.189 with a hit show. They would have taken the appearance 00:08:14.189 --> 00:08:17.269 fees and just enjoyed the ride. Sure. Kris Jenner 00:08:17.269 --> 00:08:19.649 did something totally different. She treated 00:08:19.649 --> 00:08:22.670 the show not as the product, but as the commercial. 00:08:22.990 --> 00:08:25.209 Walk me through that. What does that mean? The 00:08:25.209 --> 00:08:28.199 show was the marketing funnel. The goal wasn't 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:30.220 just to get viewers. The goal was to drive those 00:08:30.220 --> 00:08:32.899 viewers to go buy things. But to do that, you 00:08:32.899 --> 00:08:34.620 need more inventory. You can't just have one 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:36.700 show on the air. You need to dominate the shelf 00:08:36.700 --> 00:08:39.759 space. The spinoffs. The spinoff machine. Kourtney 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.720 and Kim, take Miami. Take New York. Chloe and 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.750 Lamar. Rob and Chyna. Life of Kylie. For about 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:51.350 15 years, there was almost never a week where 00:08:51.350 --> 00:08:54.049 some version of a Kardashian wasn't on the E! 00:08:54.110 --> 00:08:56.970 Network. Wow. She created an ubiquity that just 00:08:56.970 --> 00:08:59.090 made them impossible to ignore. It feels like 00:08:59.090 --> 00:09:01.389 she was hedging her bets, too. You know, if Kim 00:09:01.389 --> 00:09:03.570 becomes unpopular for a minute, you push Khloe. 00:09:03.830 --> 00:09:05.710 If Kourtney wants a break, you push Kendall. 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.559 It's a portfolio management strategy. It really 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:11.700 is. She treats her children like assets in a 00:09:11.700 --> 00:09:14.919 diversified fund. If one sector is down, you 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:17.259 just lean into another. She wrote about this 00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:19.419 in her memoir. She used a chessboard metaphor. 00:09:19.700 --> 00:09:22.559 A chessboard? Yeah. She said she wakes up every 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:25.159 day and asks herself, what move do I need to 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.870 make today? It's not reactive. It's proactive 00:09:27.870 --> 00:09:31.269 resource allocation. She even founded her own 00:09:31.269 --> 00:09:33.690 production company, Jenner Communications, to 00:09:33.690 --> 00:09:36.169 manage it all. She even tried to trademark Momager, 00:09:36.230 --> 00:09:38.570 right? She did. And released a Momager lip kit. 00:09:38.669 --> 00:09:41.529 She monetizes everything. But hold on. I want 00:09:41.529 --> 00:09:43.389 to challenge this idea that she's some kind of 00:09:43.389 --> 00:09:46.169 chess grandmaster who never loses a piece. Because 00:09:46.169 --> 00:09:49.429 she has had some serious flops. We tend to forget 00:09:49.429 --> 00:09:52.210 them because the wins are so astronomical. But 00:09:52.210 --> 00:09:54.409 there were some disasters. Oh, absolutely. And 00:09:54.409 --> 00:09:56.269 the failures are actually... in some ways more 00:09:56.269 --> 00:09:59.269 instructive than the successes. Okay, let's talk 00:09:59.269 --> 00:10:00.850 about them. Let's talk about the talk show. Chris, 00:10:00.909 --> 00:10:04.570 the daytime talk show. 2013. Fox gives her a 00:10:04.570 --> 00:10:08.049 six -week trial run. They built this set that 00:10:08.049 --> 00:10:10.029 looked exactly like her famous black -and -white 00:10:10.029 --> 00:10:13.350 foyer. The thinking was, people love watching 00:10:13.350 --> 00:10:15.330 her in her kitchen on the reality show, so they'll 00:10:15.330 --> 00:10:18.549 love watching her interview guests. And they 00:10:18.549 --> 00:10:22.629 did not. It tanked. It was stiff. It felt totally 00:10:22.629 --> 00:10:24.870 inauthentic. And that's a crucial distinction 00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:27.750 on Keeping Up. She plays the character of the 00:10:27.750 --> 00:10:30.750 homomager, you know, a little frantic, overbearing, 00:10:30.750 --> 00:10:33.409 funny. Right. On a talk show, you have to be 00:10:33.409 --> 00:10:35.210 a host. You have to listen. You have to yield 00:10:35.210 --> 00:10:38.190 the spotlight to your guest. And she really struggled 00:10:38.190 --> 00:10:40.070 with that format. It was just too traditional 00:10:40.070 --> 00:10:42.750 for her. It's so ironic, isn't it? She basically 00:10:42.750 --> 00:10:44.970 reinvented the concept of celebrity. But when 00:10:44.970 --> 00:10:46.950 she tried to do the old school celebrity job 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:49.690 hosting a daytime show, it just didn't work. 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:52.139 It proves that her brand power is very, very 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:54.700 specific. It works best when she's controlling 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:56.440 the narrative from the inside, not trying to 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.759 facilitate someone else's. There were businesses 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.740 that failed, too. Yeah. Remember Smooch? Vaguely. 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:04.659 A kid's store. A children's boutique she opened 00:11:04.659 --> 00:11:07.000 with Kourtney in 2004. It was standard retail. 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.899 You know, low margins, high rent. It closed in 00:11:09.899 --> 00:11:13.539 2009. She learned a valuable lesson. Brick -and 00:11:13.539 --> 00:11:16.360 -mortar retail is hard, and it's not scalable 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:18.549 in the way she needed. So if brick and mortar 00:11:18.549 --> 00:11:21.950 is out and traditional TV hosting is out, that 00:11:21.950 --> 00:11:26.049 really only leaves digital. Which brings us to 00:11:26.049 --> 00:11:28.690 the billion dollar pivot. Kylie Cosmetics. This 00:11:28.690 --> 00:11:30.730 is the one. This is the case study that will 00:11:30.730 --> 00:11:32.990 be taught in business schools for decades. So 00:11:32.990 --> 00:11:35.909 it's 2015. Kylie is a teenager. She has this 00:11:35.909 --> 00:11:39.259 massive. well -documented insecurity about her 00:11:39.259 --> 00:11:41.220 lips, which she eventually admits to filling. 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.200 And the media is completely obsessed with them. 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.559 Obsessed. I remember this, the Kylie Jenner lip 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:47.299 challenge. Oh, God, that was awful. People were 00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:49.620 sucking on shot glasses to swell their lips up. 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:53.240 It was dangerous and just ridiculous. It was. 00:11:53.419 --> 00:11:56.000 Now, a regular parent might have said, stop looking 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.080 at the Internet. This is unhealthy. Let's give 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.440 you some therapy. Right. Kris Jenner said, there's 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:02.980 a massive global demand for your lips. Let's 00:12:02.980 --> 00:12:07.960 sell them. That is. So dark, but also so, so 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:10.620 profitable. It is the ultimate capitalization 00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:13.039 on insecurity. But the business structure is 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:15.620 what's truly genius. They didn't go out and build 00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:18.379 a factory. They didn't hire a team of chemists. 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:21.120 They found a company called Seed Beauty. Okay, 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.629 explain Seed Beauty. Because that name comes 00:12:23.629 --> 00:12:25.850 up a lot in the beauty industry now with ColourPop 00:12:25.850 --> 00:12:28.190 and everything else. Seed Beauty, which is run 00:12:28.190 --> 00:12:31.149 by the Nelson siblings, is essentially a white 00:12:31.149 --> 00:12:33.830 label manufacturer. Basically, they have the 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:36.570 labs, the factories, the packaging, the logistics. 00:12:36.909 --> 00:12:39.710 They can make a lipstick, package it, and ship 00:12:39.710 --> 00:12:42.450 it for you. Turnkey. Totally turnkey. So Chris 00:12:42.450 --> 00:12:45.529 and Kylie struck a deal. Seed handles the entire 00:12:45.529 --> 00:12:47.990 back end, all the hard stuff, and Kylie just 00:12:47.990 --> 00:12:49.889 handles the front end, which is the marketing. 00:12:49.929 --> 00:12:52.169 So Kylie's job is just to post a selfie on Snapchat. 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:55.039 Effectively, yes. The overhead for the Jenners 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:58.679 was virtually zero. Kylie put up $250 ,000 of 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:01.200 her own money from modeling to fund the first 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.759 run of 15 ,000 kits. So if it failed, she was 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:06.779 out a quarter of a million dollars. Which is 00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:08.980 a lot of money for a teenager, even a rich one. 00:13:09.139 --> 00:13:11.320 It is. It was a real risk. But they launched, 00:13:11.379 --> 00:13:13.419 and the kits sold out in seconds. I don't mean 00:13:13.419 --> 00:13:15.779 minutes. I mean seconds. That's crazy. And because 00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:17.960 the manufacturing was outsourced to Seed, they 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:19.700 could scale instantly. They just called them 00:13:19.700 --> 00:13:22.690 up and said, make more. By the end of 2016, a 00:13:22.690 --> 00:13:24.870 little over a year later, they had done $300 00:13:24.870 --> 00:13:27.549 million in revenue. And Chris is taking her 10 00:13:27.549 --> 00:13:30.210 % cut the whole time. The standard momager fee 00:13:30.210 --> 00:13:33.870 is 10%, yes. But on these joint ventures where 00:13:33.870 --> 00:13:36.049 she's a co -founder or an operating partner, 00:13:36.389 --> 00:13:39.549 the equity split is likely much, much more significant. 00:13:40.169 --> 00:13:42.009 She isn't just an agent taking a commission. 00:13:42.129 --> 00:13:44.669 She is a partner building equity. And she didn't 00:13:44.669 --> 00:13:47.009 just stop at the finances. She inserted herself 00:13:47.009 --> 00:13:50.889 directly into the brand. Oh. The Momager collection. 00:13:50.909 --> 00:13:53.889 When she hacked Kylie's Instagram. It was such 00:13:53.889 --> 00:13:56.149 a brilliant marketing stunt. It was Mother's 00:13:56.149 --> 00:13:59.389 Day 2018. Kris takes over the account, changes 00:13:59.389 --> 00:14:01.730 the profile picture to her face, and releases 00:14:01.730 --> 00:14:03.850 a collection called the Kris collection. I remember 00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:06.830 this. There's a lip shade called Momager. and 00:14:06.830 --> 00:14:09.450 a palette with names like i have one word for 00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:14.389 tonight vodka it's so meta she's monetizing her 00:14:14.389 --> 00:14:17.190 own catchphrases from the show through her daughter's 00:14:17.190 --> 00:14:19.149 company which is promoted on the show it's an 00:14:19.149 --> 00:14:22.269 ecosystem It's a completely closed loop. She 00:14:22.269 --> 00:14:25.090 uses the show to promote the makeup, uses the 00:14:25.090 --> 00:14:27.970 makeup to create drama for the show, uses social 00:14:27.970 --> 00:14:29.889 media to sell the makeup, and then they talk 00:14:29.889 --> 00:14:32.470 about the social media drama on this show. It's 00:14:32.470 --> 00:14:35.389 a snake eating its own tail. And she replicated 00:14:35.389 --> 00:14:38.990 this exact model with Skims for Kim, Good American 00:14:38.990 --> 00:14:42.220 for Chloe, 818 Tequila for Kendall. But there's 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:44.500 a darker side to this level of control, isn't 00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:46.559 there? I mean, you can manage a product launch, 00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:49.720 but managing a massive family scandal is a totally 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.240 different ballgame. And they have had some of 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:54.019 the biggest scandals in pop culture history. 00:14:54.580 --> 00:14:57.200 This is where we see the steel, the ability to 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.080 compartmentalize. And the biggest test of this, 00:14:59.179 --> 00:15:01.679 obviously, was the O .J. Simpson trial. I feel 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.100 like younger people especially forget how absolutely 00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:06.679 central she was to that entire story. It was 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:10.139 the defining cultural moment of the 1990s. And 00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:12.139 Chris was best friends with Nicole Brown Simpson. 00:15:12.379 --> 00:15:14.320 They were planning to open a business together. 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.100 They were inseparable. And then Nicole is murdered. 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.179 And Chris's ex -husband, Robert, the father of 00:15:20.179 --> 00:15:22.820 her four children, is on the defense dream team 00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:25.320 representing the man accused of killing her best 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.940 friend. The psychological toll of that. I just 00:15:27.940 --> 00:15:30.360 can't imagine it. Sitting in that courtroom day 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:32.779 after day. She has described it as pure torture. 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.220 But look at how she handled it publicly. She 00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:38.200 never wavered in standing by Nicole's memory. 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:40.740 She even gave Kendall the middle name Nicole 00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:43.240 in her honor. But she didn't completely cut off 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:46.679 Robert. She managed to navigate the single most 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.759 polarizing event in modern American history without 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:51.659 being destroyed by it. For the sake of the kids. 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:53.899 For the sake of the kids and for the sake of, 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:58.059 well, sanity. And then you fast forward 20 years 00:15:58.059 --> 00:16:00.820 and she has to navigate. The complete dissolution 00:16:00.820 --> 00:16:03.860 of her second marriage to Bruce and Caitlyn's 00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:05.879 transition. That was a totally different kind 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:07.259 of challenge because it was happening in the 00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:09.960 age of social media and reality TV. The whole 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.580 world was watching in real time. Right. When 00:16:12.580 --> 00:16:15.120 they first separated in 2013, Chris tried to 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.220 spin it as a simple growing apart. But when Caitlyn 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:20.460 came out on the cover of Vanity Fair in 2015, 00:16:20.860 --> 00:16:23.360 the narrative control completely slipped away 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:25.980 from Chris, maybe for the first time ever. Caitlin 00:16:25.980 --> 00:16:28.379 was very, very critical of Chris in that article 00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:30.960 and then in her memoir, The Secrets of My Life. 00:16:31.179 --> 00:16:34.039 She was. Caitlin accused Chris of knowing more 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:35.679 than she admitted about her gender identity, 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.539 of being controlling, of hoarding the family 00:16:38.539 --> 00:16:41.539 money. It was ugly. Chris went on the show and 00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:43.820 called the memoir all made up. So they were at 00:16:43.820 --> 00:16:46.940 war. But, and this is the key, she didn't sue. 00:16:47.179 --> 00:16:49.600 She didn't go scorched earth in the press. She 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:51.799 did something much smarter. She went on I Am 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:54.529 Kate, Caitlin's own reality show. Wait, she went 00:16:54.529 --> 00:16:57.490 on her ex's show after being bashed in the press 00:16:57.490 --> 00:17:00.389 like that? Yes. She showed up. She sat down. 00:17:00.590 --> 00:17:02.909 She had the incredibly difficult conversation 00:17:02.909 --> 00:17:05.569 on camera. She cried. She expressed her hurt. 00:17:05.650 --> 00:17:07.390 Why? That says it was good content. It was great 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:09.230 content. And because keeping the family brand 00:17:09.230 --> 00:17:11.829 somewhat intact, even if it's a dysfunctional 00:17:11.829 --> 00:17:13.890 brand, is more valuable in the long run than 00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:16.170 a clean break, she understands that the audience 00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:18.549 craves resolution, or at the very least, confrontation. 00:17:18.809 --> 00:17:22.240 That is... ruthless in a way to prioritize the 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.039 content over your own personal hurt. Or just 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:26.960 incredibly pragmatic. She knows that if she isn't 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:28.920 a part of the story, she can't control the ending. 00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.480 She has to be in the room where it happens. Speaking 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.000 of which, she has admitted some regrets. The 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.859 affair with Todd Waterman, she's called that 00:17:35.859 --> 00:17:38.380 one of her biggest. For sure. She sees it as 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:40.319 the thing that broke up her original family unit. 00:17:40.420 --> 00:17:42.640 That's a consistent theme for her. So let's fast 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.880 forward to the now. The 2020s. The family leaves 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.980 E! after 20 seasons. This was a huge risk, right? 00:17:49.099 --> 00:17:51.099 They were the entire face of that network. It 00:17:51.099 --> 00:17:53.920 was a massive risk, but a calculated one. It 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.019 was about the shift from cable to streaming. 00:17:56.299 --> 00:17:59.259 E! is linear TV. The audience is shrinking. It's 00:17:59.259 --> 00:18:02.500 getting older. Hulu and Disney Plus is the future. 00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:06.140 They signed a massive deal to launch the Kardashians 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:10.119 in 2022. Is the show actually different? Or is 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:11.740 it just the same thing with better lighting? 00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:13.930 The production value is way higher. It looks 00:18:13.930 --> 00:18:15.670 like a documentary now, you know, all these drone 00:18:15.670 --> 00:18:18.230 shots of Calabasas. It's very cinematic. But 00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:20.470 the underlying strategy is exactly the same. 00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:23.369 The show serves as a living catalog for their 00:18:23.369 --> 00:18:25.750 businesses. Right. In the new show, you see them 00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:27.950 in board meetings for skims. You see Kendall 00:18:27.950 --> 00:18:30.329 down in Mexico checking on the tequila vats for 00:18:30.329 --> 00:18:33.269 818. It's all designed to legitimize them as 00:18:33.269 --> 00:18:35.849 businesswomen, not just reality stars. And Chris 00:18:35.849 --> 00:18:37.950 is still the executive producer on everything. 00:18:38.230 --> 00:18:41.319 She is the gatekeeper. But look at her most recent 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:44.700 moves in 2025 and into this year. She's stepping 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.400 outside of unscripted TV. She's an executive 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.039 producer on All's Fair, that new Ryan Murphy 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.019 legal drama that stars Kim. This feels like a 00:18:53.019 --> 00:18:55.220 quest for legitimacy, like we conquered reality 00:18:55.220 --> 00:18:58.240 TV. Now we want an Emmy. That's exactly what 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.720 it is. Ryan Murphy is prestige TV. You know, 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:05.380 American Horror Story, Glee, Pose. Partnering 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:07.279 with him signals that they want to be taken seriously 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:09.819 in Hollywood, not just in Calabasas. And she's 00:19:09.819 --> 00:19:12.000 embracing the internet culture, too. The Meghan 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.150 Trainor video cameo. The mother video from 2023, 00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:17.190 it was brilliant. The internet has been calling 00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:20.690 her mother for years. It's slang for an iconic, 00:19:20.789 --> 00:19:23.410 powerful female figure. Right. And instead of 00:19:23.410 --> 00:19:25.789 ignoring it or acting confused like some older 00:19:25.789 --> 00:19:28.569 celebrities might, she cameos in a music video 00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:31.509 literally dancing to a song called Mother. She's 00:19:31.509 --> 00:19:34.190 in on the joke. It's disarming. It's really hard 00:19:34.190 --> 00:19:36.630 to hate someone who is winking at you the whole 00:19:36.630 --> 00:19:38.930 time. That's her superpower. She makes you feel 00:19:38.930 --> 00:19:40.549 like you're part of the club even while she's 00:19:40.549 --> 00:19:42.529 selling you the membership. We should also mention 00:19:42.529 --> 00:19:44.829 her faith. People might not know she co -founded 00:19:44.829 --> 00:19:47.170 a church. Yeah, the California Community Church 00:19:47.170 --> 00:19:50.049 back in 2012. It's another layer to the brand, 00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:52.589 this idea of faith and family that underpins 00:19:52.589 --> 00:19:56.309 the whole operation, at least publicly. So we're 00:19:56.309 --> 00:19:58.490 at the end of the deep dive. We've looked at 00:19:58.490 --> 00:20:01.990 the tragedy, the hustle, the QVC years, the billion 00:20:01.990 --> 00:20:05.009 -dollar cosmetic plays, the scandals. What is 00:20:05.009 --> 00:20:07.069 the synthesis here? If you had to sum up the 00:20:07.069 --> 00:20:09.569 Kris Jenner philosophy in one sentence, what 00:20:09.569 --> 00:20:12.160 is it? I'd say this. Kris Jenner realized that 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.000 in the 21st century, attention is a natural resource. 00:20:15.500 --> 00:20:18.059 And just like an oil baron, she figured out how 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:20.859 to drill for it, refine it, and sell it back 00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:24.359 to us at a massive premium. She shifted the entire 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.380 paradigm from being famous to owning the rights 00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:29.480 to your fame. That's a really powerful distinction. 00:20:29.779 --> 00:20:32.119 Most famous people are employees. They work for 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.660 a studio or a record label. She made herself 00:20:34.660 --> 00:20:36.740 the owner. And she made her children owners. 00:20:36.859 --> 00:20:39.220 That is the legacy. But I want to leave you with 00:20:39.220 --> 00:20:41.299 a question, something to chew on. We're seeing 00:20:41.299 --> 00:20:44.220 the kids, Kim, Kylie, Kendall, they're becoming 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:46.880 institutions in their own right. They are billionaires 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:50.660 or close to it independently. The momager role 00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:53.059 was absolutely essential when they were creating 00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:55.420 the chessboard. But now that all the pieces are 00:20:55.420 --> 00:20:58.480 kings and queens, is the game over? You mean, 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:00.980 do they still need her? Or, maybe more importantly, 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.099 does she need a new game? She's 70 years old. 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.200 She's producing scripted drama. She's still with 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.019 Corey Gamble. She's a grandmother to, what, 13 00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:13.000 kids now? Yeah, a whole army. Is she looking 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:15.779 for a quiet retirement, or is she planning a 00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:18.059 third act that we can't even see yet? Knowing 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:20.200 what we've just talked about. I wouldn't bet 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.700 on retirement. Neither would I. Not for a second. 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.180 Listeners, we want to hear from you on this one. 00:21:25.819 --> 00:21:28.640 Do you see her as a cynical mastermind, a business 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:32.099 operator, exploiting her family for cash? Or 00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:35.359 do you see a fiercely protective mother who built 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.660 a fortress to keep her children safe and rich 00:21:37.660 --> 00:21:39.599 in a world that wanted to chew them up and spit 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.359 them out? Can she be both? That's the billion 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.200 -dollar question, isn't it? Thanks for diving 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:46.519 in with us. We'll see you next time.