WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today, we're doing 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:04.379 something a little bit different. Normally, we 00:00:04.379 --> 00:00:06.599 take a big topic, we pull from a whole stack 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:08.660 of sources, and we try to, you know, build a 00:00:08.660 --> 00:00:12.060 kind of mosaic. A broad overview. Exactly. But 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:15.080 today, we're zooming in. We're putting a single 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.719 towering object under the microscope. We're looking 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:20.480 at a book that you could argue pretty much invented 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:23.519 the modern true crime genre as we know it. Absolutely. 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:25.039 It's the heavyweight champion of the category. 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:27.359 I mean, if you look at the history of nonfiction 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:30.019 crime writing, there's a clear line. There's 00:00:30.019 --> 00:00:32.219 everything that came before this book, and then 00:00:32.219 --> 00:00:34.560 there's everything that came after. We are talking, 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.979 of course, about Helter Skelter, the 1974 account 00:00:37.979 --> 00:00:40.479 of the Manson family murders and the trial that 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:43.479 followed, written by Vincent Bugliosi and Kurt 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:46.439 Gentry. And I want to start with just the sheer 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.380 scale of this thing, because the numbers, the 00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:51.640 numbers alone tell you this isn't just a book. 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:54.090 It's a cultural phenomenon. It really is. Our 00:00:54.090 --> 00:00:56.929 source material notes that by 2015, and that's 00:00:56.929 --> 00:00:59.670 almost a decade ago now, Helter Skelter had sold 00:00:59.670 --> 00:01:03.350 over 7 million copies. 7 million. That makes 00:01:03.350 --> 00:01:06.989 it, by a long shot, the best -selling true crime 00:01:06.989 --> 00:01:09.629 book in history. And that is a truly staggering 00:01:09.629 --> 00:01:11.709 number, especially when you think about the competition. 00:01:12.010 --> 00:01:13.810 You know, people always bring up Truman Capote's 00:01:13.810 --> 00:01:16.109 In Cold Blood. Of course. And it's a masterpiece, 00:01:16.209 --> 00:01:18.909 no question, a foundational text. But Helter 00:01:18.909 --> 00:01:22.299 Skelter, it... It operates on a totally different 00:01:22.299 --> 00:01:24.760 level of public engagement. It's not just literary. 00:01:24.859 --> 00:01:28.900 It's procedural. It's granular. It grabbed the 00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:31.280 public imagination in a way that maybe even Capote 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.480 didn't. Why do you think that is? Well, part 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:37.239 of it is the sheer horror of the crimes themselves. 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:39.519 But I think the bigger reason, the one we really 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:42.000 need to focus on, is who was telling the story. 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:44.790 Right. And that is the absolute core distinction 00:01:44.790 --> 00:01:46.750 we have to make right at the top. This isn't 00:01:46.750 --> 00:01:49.409 an outsider looking in. This isn't some journalist 00:01:49.409 --> 00:01:51.349 who flew into town two years after the fact to 00:01:51.349 --> 00:01:53.870 interview the neighbors. No. The primary author, 00:01:54.170 --> 00:01:57.469 Vincent Bugliosi, he was the prosecutor. And 00:01:57.469 --> 00:02:01.049 that perspective, that single fact, defines every 00:02:01.049 --> 00:02:03.010 single page of this book. You have to understand, 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:05.569 when you read about a crime, you're usually getting 00:02:05.569 --> 00:02:09.189 a narrative that's been reconstructed from police 00:02:09.189 --> 00:02:12.030 reports, old interviews, court transcripts. You're 00:02:12.030 --> 00:02:14.610 getting a historical account. Exactly. But here, 00:02:14.710 --> 00:02:16.969 you're getting something else. You are inside 00:02:16.969 --> 00:02:19.969 the head of the man whose job it was to build 00:02:19.969 --> 00:02:22.969 the legal cage around Charles Manson. Bugliosi 00:02:22.969 --> 00:02:26.610 served as the prosecutor in the 1970 trial. So 00:02:26.610 --> 00:02:29.530 the book is in effect his case files his strategy 00:02:29.530 --> 00:02:32.169 sessions his frustrations all translated into 00:02:32.169 --> 00:02:34.689 this driving narrative prose Which gives the 00:02:34.689 --> 00:02:36.810 writing a very specific kind of intensity, doesn't 00:02:36.810 --> 00:02:39.710 it? It's not just here's what happened. It's 00:02:39.710 --> 00:02:42.090 here is how we proved what happened. And here 00:02:42.090 --> 00:02:44.930 is why it was so damn hard to do. Yes. It frames 00:02:44.930 --> 00:02:46.969 the entire narrative as a battle. It's Bugliosi 00:02:46.969 --> 00:02:49.050 versus the defense attorneys, Bugliosi versus 00:02:49.050 --> 00:02:51.389 the media, Bugliosi versus the clock. And maybe 00:02:51.389 --> 00:02:53.789 most interestingly, Bugliosi versus the sheer 00:02:53.789 --> 00:02:56.310 mind bending insanity of the motive. We'll definitely 00:02:56.310 --> 00:02:58.250 get to that. Because he wasn't just trying to 00:02:58.250 --> 00:03:00.710 prove who held the knife. He was trying to prove 00:03:00.710 --> 00:03:04.780 a philosophy. A worldview. And that's a much, 00:03:04.819 --> 00:03:06.919 much harder job. Let's talk about the timeline 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:09.520 for a second, because the gap between the events 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:11.520 and the book's publication is actually pretty 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.699 significant. The Tate -LaBianca murders happened 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:18.500 in August of 1969. Right. The trial, the main 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:21.979 trial, basically consumed all of 1970. But the 00:03:21.979 --> 00:03:24.800 publisher, W .W. Norton and Company, they don't 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:27.990 actually release the book until 1974. And that 00:03:27.990 --> 00:03:31.189 four year gap is absolutely crucial to the quality 00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:33.770 of the final product. I mean, think about it. 00:03:33.789 --> 00:03:35.849 If this had been some quick and dirty paperback 00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:37.750 rushed out the week after the verdict. It would 00:03:37.750 --> 00:03:39.490 have been forgotten in a year. Absolutely. It 00:03:39.490 --> 00:03:41.969 would be a historical footnote. Yeah. That time, 00:03:41.969 --> 00:03:45.090 those four years, allow Bugliosi and his co -author, 00:03:45.189 --> 00:03:48.389 Kurt Gentry, to organize a literal mountain of 00:03:48.389 --> 00:03:50.310 evidence. You have to remember, this was at the 00:03:50.310 --> 00:03:52.090 time the longest and most expensive criminal 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:54.770 trial in American history. The sheer volume of 00:03:54.770 --> 00:03:56.949 the court transcripts was, well, it was biblical. 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.319 So to distill all of that, all those dead ends 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.060 and sidebar motions, down into a readable narrative 00:04:03.060 --> 00:04:06.379 with actual pacing and suspense, that took some 00:04:06.379 --> 00:04:10.379 serious architectural skill. Immense skill. And 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:12.939 you mentioned Kurt Gentry. He often gets a bit 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:15.979 overlooked in the shadow of Bugliosi's, let's 00:04:15.979 --> 00:04:19.920 say, dominant personality. But Gentry was a very 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.120 seasoned writer. He knew how to build a book. 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:24.810 So it was a true partnership? It seems to be. 00:04:24.850 --> 00:04:26.810 You often see this in nonfiction. You have the 00:04:26.810 --> 00:04:28.629 expert, the person with the story, in this case 00:04:28.629 --> 00:04:30.449 the lawyer, and then you have the writer, the 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:33.110 person who knows how to shape it. Gentry likely 00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:35.350 handled a lot of the structure, the pacing, the 00:04:35.350 --> 00:04:39.689 tone, but the voice, the voice is unmistakably 00:04:39.689 --> 00:04:42.209 Ucleoses. How would you describe that voice? 00:04:42.449 --> 00:04:45.339 It's precise. It's confident, maybe a little 00:04:45.339 --> 00:04:48.139 arrogant. It's incredibly detailed, almost obsessively 00:04:48.139 --> 00:04:51.459 so. And it's very legalistic, but somehow at 00:04:51.459 --> 00:04:53.459 the same time still gripping. He makes you feel 00:04:53.459 --> 00:04:54.899 like you're on the prosecution team with him. 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.120 Another thing that sets the book apart is its 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:59.360 scope. I think in the popular consciousness, 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:01.639 this story often gets flattened down to just 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:05.459 Charles Manson. But the book, it's really an 00:05:05.459 --> 00:05:08.199 ensemble piece, for lack of a better word. It 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.920 has to be. The Manson family wasn't a monolith. 00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:14.579 It was a complex, twisted social structure with 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:19.180 its own hierarchy and rules. The book goes deep 00:05:19.180 --> 00:05:21.600 into the specific cases against Susan Atkins. 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.519 Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and the 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:27.300 others. It's this tangled web of defendants. 00:05:27.339 --> 00:05:29.480 And Bugliosi's central challenge was linking 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:32.259 them all together. Yes. He had to build a case 00:05:32.259 --> 00:05:35.300 that could connect the actions of, say, a Patricia 00:05:35.300 --> 00:05:37.959 Krenwinkel inside the LaBianca house with a knife 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.079 in her hand directly to the commands of a man, 00:05:40.139 --> 00:05:41.800 Charles Manson, who wasn't even in the room. 00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:44.220 Which brings us to the legal concept of conspiracy. 00:05:44.379 --> 00:05:46.120 That's really the engine of the book, isn't it? 00:05:46.180 --> 00:05:49.259 It is the whole thing. Legally speaking, it's 00:05:49.259 --> 00:05:51.420 often much, much harder to convict the person 00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:53.620 who ordered the murder than the person who actually 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:55.839 committed the act, especially when the person 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:58.439 giving the orders speaks in riddles and obscure 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:00.860 song lyrics. Well, let's get right into those 00:06:00.860 --> 00:06:02.839 riddles, because we can't possibly discuss the 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.680 book without dissecting that title. Helter Skelter. 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:08.699 It's a phrase that has become so synonymous with 00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:12.579 murder and chaos, but in 1968, it was just a 00:06:12.579 --> 00:06:15.259 song. A pretty noisy, chaotic song on the Beatles' 00:06:15.420 --> 00:06:18.800 White Album, but yeah, just a song. And to really 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:20.519 understand the book, you have to understand how 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:24.360 Bugliosi systematically deconstructs Manson's 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.220 interpretation of that entire album. This is 00:06:27.220 --> 00:06:29.819 the motive section of the trial. It is, and it's 00:06:29.819 --> 00:06:32.399 arguably the most famous and certainly the most 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.800 bizarre motive in the history of American crime. 00:06:36.019 --> 00:06:39.019 The source material we have highlights that Manson 00:06:39.019 --> 00:06:41.399 was, and I'm quoting here, particularly fascinated 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:44.720 by the White Album. but fascinated, that feels 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:46.740 like a massive understatement for what Bugliosi 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:48.579 describes in the book. Oh, it's the understatement 00:06:48.579 --> 00:06:50.819 of the century. Manson didn't just like the album. 00:06:50.980 --> 00:06:53.120 He treated the White Album as a divine prophecy, 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.779 a coded transmission sent directly to him. From 00:06:55.779 --> 00:06:57.620 the Beatles. He believed the Beatles were the 00:06:57.620 --> 00:06:59.660 four angels mentioned in the Book of Revelation. 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:02.759 He thought they were speaking to him personally 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:05.819 across the Atlantic, sending him specific hidden 00:07:05.819 --> 00:07:08.939 instructions to prepare for an imminent apocalyptic 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:12.300 race war. And this apocalyptic race war was what 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:14.680 he named Helter Skelter. Correct. In Manson's 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:17.279 theology, if you can even call it that, he believed 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.459 that black Americans would soon rise up in a 00:07:19.459 --> 00:07:21.839 violent revolt and overthrow the entire white 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.480 establishment. He thought this war would basically 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.259 destroy civilization as we know it. So where 00:07:27.259 --> 00:07:30.899 did he and the family fit in? His plan was for 00:07:30.899 --> 00:07:33.620 him and his followers, the family, to hide out 00:07:33.620 --> 00:07:36.120 in the desert. He was searching for something 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:38.699 he called the Bottomless Pit, literally a hole 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:40.879 in the ground near Death Valley. where they would 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:43.879 wait for the war to end. And then what? Then, 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.379 when the dust settled, Manson believed that the 00:07:46.379 --> 00:07:48.680 victors of this war, who he presumed would be 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:50.899 black people, would realize they didn't know 00:07:50.899 --> 00:07:53.339 how to run the world. And in their confusion, 00:07:53.699 --> 00:07:56.740 they would turn to him, Charles Manson, to come 00:07:56.740 --> 00:07:59.060 out of his hole and lead them. It sounds like 00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:02.360 pure, unadulterated delusion. And this is the 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:05.160 monumental challenge Bugliosi faces in the book 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.139 and in the courtroom. How do you present this 00:08:08.139 --> 00:08:11.459 theory to a jury of 12 regular people in Los 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:14.560 Angeles in 1970 without them just laughing you 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.019 out of the room? That is the absolute brilliance 00:08:17.019 --> 00:08:19.379 of the prosecution strategy that he lays out 00:08:19.379 --> 00:08:22.060 in the book. Bugliosi realized he couldn't just 00:08:22.060 --> 00:08:24.500 stand up and say Manson is crazy. Yeah. Because 00:08:24.500 --> 00:08:27.100 if the jury thinks he's just crazy, they might 00:08:27.100 --> 00:08:29.620 find him insane and not guilty. Right. He had 00:08:29.620 --> 00:08:32.059 to show that Manson was consistently crazy, that 00:08:32.059 --> 00:08:34.720 there was a logic to his madness. He had to prove 00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:37.259 that the Tate -LaBianca murders were a deliberate 00:08:37.259 --> 00:08:39.860 act designed to start this war. To be the catalyst. 00:08:40.299 --> 00:08:42.820 Precisely. The prosecution's argument was that 00:08:42.820 --> 00:08:44.909 the family murdered prominent white people. Sharon 00:08:44.909 --> 00:08:47.129 Tate, and then tried to frame black militants 00:08:47.129 --> 00:08:49.250 for the crimes. That's why they wrote words like 00:08:49.250 --> 00:08:51.529 pig and death to pigs in the victim's blood. 00:08:51.809 --> 00:08:53.629 It was meant to look like the work of groups 00:08:53.629 --> 00:08:55.929 like the Black Panthers and ignite white fear 00:08:55.929 --> 00:08:58.409 and retaliation. So the murder wasn't the end 00:08:58.409 --> 00:09:00.610 goal. It was just the trigger. It was the match 00:09:00.610 --> 00:09:03.330 to light the fuse of Helter Skelter. Yeah. And 00:09:03.330 --> 00:09:05.669 the book details what a struggle it was for Bugliosi 00:09:05.669 --> 00:09:07.929 to even get this motive admitted as evidence. 00:09:08.309 --> 00:09:11.169 It was incredibly risky. The defense argued it 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:13.649 was prejudicial and absurd. If the jury thought 00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:15.409 the motive was just too unbelievable, they might 00:09:15.409 --> 00:09:17.429 have acquitted Manson on the conspiracy charges. 00:09:17.769 --> 00:09:21.190 But Bugliosi insisted. He insisted. He argued. 00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:25.279 that you couldn't understand the why of these 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:27.259 crimes without understanding the Helter Skelter 00:09:27.259 --> 00:09:29.700 scenario. It was the key that unlocked everything. 00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:31.980 It linked the lyrics of the Beatles, songs like 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:34.759 Piggies, Blackbird, Revolution 9, directly to 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:36.779 the details of the crime scenes. It is still 00:09:36.779 --> 00:09:39.279 just surreal to think about a major American 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.299 courtroom trial where the prosecutor is on his 00:09:42.299 --> 00:09:45.240 feet, dissecting Linda McCartney lyrics as if 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.279 they were a blueprint for mass murder. It really 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:51.480 was this. This bizarre collision of pop culture, 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:54.200 counterculture, and the criminal justice system. 00:09:54.379 --> 00:09:56.779 You have the biggest, most beloved band in the 00:09:56.779 --> 00:09:59.659 world being cited as the direct catalyst for 00:09:59.659 --> 00:10:01.840 the most gruesome, terrifying crimes of the decade. 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:03.820 It's often said that this was the moment the 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:06.470 60s officially died. I think that's right. The 00:10:06.470 --> 00:10:08.629 book captures that transition perfectly. It's 00:10:08.629 --> 00:10:11.149 the moment the whole peace and love vibe of the 00:10:11.149 --> 00:10:13.970 counterculture curled into something dark and 00:10:13.970 --> 00:10:16.269 nightmarish. Okay, let's move on to the investigation 00:10:16.269 --> 00:10:18.669 part of the book's subtitle. Because reading 00:10:18.669 --> 00:10:20.649 through the source material and the book itself, 00:10:20.950 --> 00:10:23.490 it's clear this was not a simple straight line 00:10:23.490 --> 00:10:26.110 from crime to arrest. Oh, not even close. And 00:10:26.110 --> 00:10:30.090 this is where the book also serves as a pretty 00:10:30.090 --> 00:10:32.610 scathing critique of law enforcement at the time. 00:10:33.269 --> 00:10:36.929 Bugliosi. Pulls no punches. He is very clear 00:10:36.929 --> 00:10:40.529 about the incompetence and the lack of communication 00:10:40.529 --> 00:10:42.970 in the initial investigation. How is that? Well, 00:10:43.009 --> 00:10:44.629 you have to remember the Tate murders happened 00:10:44.629 --> 00:10:47.409 in the Hollywood Hills, which was LAPD jurisdiction. 00:10:47.950 --> 00:10:50.590 The LaBianca murders happened the very next night 00:10:50.590 --> 00:10:53.570 in a different area, Los Feliz, which was under 00:10:53.570 --> 00:10:55.629 the jurisdiction of the L .A. County Sheriff's 00:10:55.629 --> 00:10:58.789 Department. And in 1969, those two massive agencies 00:10:58.789 --> 00:11:01.929 weren't exactly sharing a central database. They 00:11:01.929 --> 00:11:04.500 weren't even sharing a cup of coffee. The book 00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:06.879 details these incredible lapses in communication. 00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:09.100 They didn't connect the two crime scenes for 00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:11.860 weeks. They had the actual killers in custody 00:11:11.860 --> 00:11:14.679 on completely unrelated charges. Things like 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:18.419 auto theft, arson, the raid on Spahn Ranch, and 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:21.120 they let them go. They had no idea these were 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.059 the people responsible for the crime of the century. 00:11:23.299 --> 00:11:26.039 And the book details the sheer brutality of those 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:27.779 crimes, which is important for understanding 00:11:27.779 --> 00:11:30.799 the public terror at the time. The Tate murders 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:34.580 at 1 -50 Cielo Drive. We're talking about the 00:11:34.580 --> 00:11:36.679 actress Sharon Tate, who was eight and a half 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.039 months pregnant. And her friends, Jay Sebring, 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.860 a famous celebrity hairstylist, Abigail Folger, 00:11:41.940 --> 00:11:45.299 the coffee heiress, her boyfriend, Wojciech Frykowski, 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.440 and a young man named Stephen Parent, who was 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:49.100 just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It 00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:51.379 was a complete massacre. And the book walks you 00:11:51.379 --> 00:11:53.200 through the crime scene analysis in a way that 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.419 was very new for a popular audience back then. 00:11:55.899 --> 00:11:58.200 Very new. He discusses blood spatter patterns, 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:00.539 the positioning of the bodies, the forensic evidence, 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:02.960 the sheer frenzy and overkill of the attack. 00:12:03.779 --> 00:12:06.720 It was meant to shock, but also to educate the 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.019 reader on the reality of the violence. And then 00:12:09.019 --> 00:12:12.600 the very next night, the LaBianca murders. A 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:15.919 wealthy grocer, Lino LaBianca, and his wife, 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:19.120 Rosemary. Which in some ways was even more terrifying 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.500 to the general public. Yeah. Because Sharon Tate 00:12:21.500 --> 00:12:24.649 was a movie star. You could, you know. rationalize 00:12:24.649 --> 00:12:26.850 that away as part of some bizarre Hollywood thing. 00:12:26.889 --> 00:12:28.750 Right. A drug deal gone wrong or something like 00:12:28.750 --> 00:12:31.759 that. Exactly. But the LaBianca is. They were 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:34.519 just normal, successful people. The randomness 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:36.740 of their murder was intended by Manson to create 00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:39.700 widespread panic. The similarity in the ritualistic 00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:42.620 aspects, the writing in blood, the use of forks. 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.919 It was meant to show that this wasn't an isolated 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:47.159 incident. This could happen to anyone. Our source 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:50.059 material also specifically lists Donald Shorty 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:52.220 Shea in the section of Murders Known. This is 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:54.419 a part of the story that often gets overshadowed 00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:56.559 by the Tate LaBianca narrative, but it's crucial 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:58.940 in the book. It is because it shows a different 00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:01.899 side of the family's violence. Donald Shea was 00:13:01.899 --> 00:13:04.759 a stuntman and a ranch hand at Spine Ranch, where 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:07.139 the family was living. They came to suspect him 00:13:07.139 --> 00:13:09.639 of being a snitch of talking to the police. So 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.639 they killed him. They killed him and dismembered 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.419 him. His murder was particularly gruesome, and 00:13:14.419 --> 00:13:17.759 his body wasn't found for years. Bugliosi includes 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.399 Shea and another murder victim, Gary Hinman, 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:23.360 to frame the family not just as these celebrity 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.139 thrill killers, but as a functioning, localized, 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:30.419 organized crime unit that brutally eliminated 00:13:30.419 --> 00:13:33.429 its perceived threats. The book is, as the source 00:13:33.429 --> 00:13:38.070 notes, 502 pages in the original hardcover. That 00:13:38.070 --> 00:13:40.909 is a dense, dense read. It's dense because the 00:13:40.909 --> 00:13:42.690 investigation was a puzzle with thousands of 00:13:42.690 --> 00:13:44.789 pieces. And Bugliosi takes you through all of 00:13:44.789 --> 00:13:47.230 them. He spends entire chapters detailing the 00:13:47.230 --> 00:13:49.610 dead ends, the false leads, the theory that it 00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:51.590 was a drug burn, the theory that it was a party 00:13:51.590 --> 00:13:54.320 that got out of hand. So the reader gets to experience 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.980 the same frustration the detectives did. Absolutely. 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:59.299 Which makes the breakthrough, when it finally 00:13:59.299 --> 00:14:02.159 comes, that much more dramatic. And the key thing 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:04.600 is, the breakthrough doesn't come from brilliant 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:08.039 Sherlock Holmes -style detective work. No. It 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:10.460 comes because one of the killers, Susan Atkins, 00:14:10.659 --> 00:14:12.899 got arrested on a different charge and couldn't 00:14:12.899 --> 00:14:15.000 stop bragging to her cellmate. That's the Virginia 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.120 Graham connection. Right. That's the whole case. 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:20.320 If Susan Atkins hadn't had the incredible vanity 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.240 and arrogance to confess to her cellmate, the 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.899 Tate -LaBianca murders might very well be a famous 00:14:25.899 --> 00:14:29.279 unsolved case to this day. The book really highlights 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.320 the fragility of justice. It so often hangs on 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:35.360 a single fragile thread of human ego. So the 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.059 trial happens, the verdicts come in, and the 00:14:37.059 --> 00:14:39.259 book comes out in 74. It's a massive commercial 00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:41.820 success, as we've said. But our source also notes 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:45.259 it won the 1975 Edgar Award for Best Fact Crime 00:14:45.259 --> 00:14:47.720 Book. And that is a huge piece of validation. 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:51.100 The Edgar Awards are been. They're like the Oscars 00:14:51.100 --> 00:14:53.799 for the mystery and crime writing world. For 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.259 a prosecutor's memoir to win that award meant 00:14:56.259 --> 00:14:58.259 that the literary community was accepting it 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:01.379 as a well -crafted, serious narrative, not just 00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:03.720 a sensational cash grab. It elevated the genre. 00:15:03.860 --> 00:15:07.250 Completely. Before Helter Skelter, a lot of true 00:15:07.250 --> 00:15:10.549 crime was seen as pulp. You know, lurid detective 00:15:10.549 --> 00:15:13.690 magazines, cheap paperbacks. This book was reviewed 00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:16.129 seriously in the New York Times. It was treated 00:15:16.129 --> 00:15:18.929 as important social history. It really did pave 00:15:18.929 --> 00:15:21.269 the way for the true crime obsession we see today, 00:15:21.389 --> 00:15:23.429 didn't it? I mean, without Helter Skelter, do 00:15:23.429 --> 00:15:25.649 we get a show like The Jinx? Do we get a podcast 00:15:25.649 --> 00:15:27.710 like Serial? I really don't think we do. Not 00:15:27.710 --> 00:15:30.899 in the same way. Bugliosi proved to a mass audience 00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:33.860 that the details of the legal process, the jury 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:36.480 selection, the evidentiary motions, the sidebar 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.940 conferences with the judge, could be just as 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:40.879 dramatic and compelling as the murder itself. 00:15:41.470 --> 00:15:43.769 He basically taught an entire generation of readers 00:15:43.769 --> 00:15:46.590 how to be armchair prosecutors. And the longevity 00:15:46.590 --> 00:15:49.090 of the text is also worth pointing out. It wasn't 00:15:49.090 --> 00:15:51.649 just a 70s phenomenon that faded away. Our source 00:15:51.649 --> 00:15:54.129 mentions a 25th anniversary edition was published 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:56.730 in 1994. Right. And that edition is really important 00:15:56.730 --> 00:16:00.289 because it included a new lengthy afterword written 00:16:00.289 --> 00:16:03.210 by Gugliosi. And this update is fascinating because 00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:05.190 it allowed him to comment on everything that 00:16:05.190 --> 00:16:07.190 had happened in the intervening two decades. 00:16:07.429 --> 00:16:10.559 Like the parole hearings. Exactly. The parole 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.759 hearings for the various Manson family members 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:17.080 have become this grim, predictable ritual in 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.460 California. And Bugliosi remained deeply involved 00:16:19.460 --> 00:16:21.720 in that fight right up until his death. He did. 00:16:21.860 --> 00:16:25.240 The afterword reflects his absolute burning frustration 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.240 that these individuals who committed these unbelievably 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.500 heinous acts were technically eligible for parole. 00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:34.779 He used the updated editions of the book to keep 00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:37.559 the public case against them active. He wanted 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:39.740 to make sure they never, ever got out. It's also 00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:41.620 interesting how we can see the evolution of the 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:43.980 audiobook format through this one title. The 00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:46.080 source notes that Bugliosi actually narrated 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.120 the original Talking Books unabridged version 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.500 himself. Which is pretty rare, and it must have 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:53.340 added this incredible layer of gravitas and authority 00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:55.740 to hear the story told in the prosecutor's own 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:58.580 voice. But then much later in 2011, Audible .com 00:16:58.580 --> 00:17:00.820 commissioned a brand new unabridged recording 00:17:00.820 --> 00:17:04.789 by Scott Brick. And Scott Brick is like... the 00:17:04.789 --> 00:17:06.930 voice of modern audiobooks. He's a superstar 00:17:06.930 --> 00:17:09.470 narrator. The fact that a company like Audible 00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:13.210 would invest in a huge, new, high -production 00:17:13.210 --> 00:17:15.509 re -recording nearly 40 years after the book 00:17:15.509 --> 00:17:17.930 first came out, it just shows you that the demand 00:17:17.930 --> 00:17:20.609 never went away. New generations are constantly 00:17:20.609 --> 00:17:22.930 discovering this story and want to hear it. Okay, 00:17:22.970 --> 00:17:24.910 let's pivot a bit to the cultural ripple effects. 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.900 Because if the book is the sun at the center 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:30.059 of this system, there are an awful lot of planets 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.339 orbiting it. The source lists the direct adaptations, 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.700 starting with that big 1976 TV movie. That film 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:40.220 was a monster ratings event. It was a huge deal. 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.500 It starred an actor named Steve Railsback as 00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:45.279 Manson, and his performance was so terrifyingly 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.359 accurate, so convincing, that it reportedly hurt 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:50.630 his career for a while afterward. People couldn't 00:17:50.630 --> 00:17:52.210 separate him from the character. And then they 00:17:52.210 --> 00:17:54.690 did it again, another TV film in 2004. Right, 00:17:54.750 --> 00:17:56.990 retelling the exact same story. Now, what's interesting 00:17:56.990 --> 00:17:59.450 is that most of these movies, these direct adaptations, 00:17:59.809 --> 00:18:01.730 they aren't based on independent research. They're 00:18:01.730 --> 00:18:03.809 explicitly based on the book Helter Skelter. 00:18:05.150 --> 00:18:07.650 Bugliosi's narrative became the official canonical 00:18:07.650 --> 00:18:10.349 history of the events. But the influence goes 00:18:10.349 --> 00:18:13.309 way beyond those direct adaptations. The source 00:18:13.309 --> 00:18:15.869 points out something I found fascinating. The 00:18:15.869 --> 00:18:20.109 2008 horror film, The Strangers. Yes. Yeah. This 00:18:20.109 --> 00:18:22.769 is a critical connection to make. The Strangers 00:18:22.769 --> 00:18:26.089 is this incredibly tense film about a random, 00:18:26.150 --> 00:18:29.250 motiveless home invasion. And the director, Brian 00:18:29.250 --> 00:18:31.809 Bertino, has said in interviews that Helter Skelter, 00:18:31.890 --> 00:18:35.130 the book, was a primary influence. Why? Because 00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:37.910 it taps into the specific modern fear that the 00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:40.009 Manson murders unleashed on the American psyche. 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:42.880 The idea that you are not safe in your own home, 00:18:42.980 --> 00:18:45.220 that locks and gates don't matter. The killers 00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:46.640 and the strangers, when asked why they're doing 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:49.160 this, give the chilling answer, because you were 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.819 home. That is pure Manson logic. It shifted the 00:18:51.819 --> 00:18:54.460 cultural fear from, you know, the jealous ex 00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:57.460 -husband or the disgruntled employee to... Wandering 00:18:57.460 --> 00:19:00.079 psycho. Exactly. Before Manson, murder in popular 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.210 culture was usually seen as intimate. Something 00:19:02.210 --> 00:19:04.609 with a clear motive. After Manson, murder could 00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.369 be random, chaotic, and philosophical. That's 00:19:07.369 --> 00:19:10.450 a fundamental shift. And Bugliosi's book is the 00:19:10.450 --> 00:19:12.450 document that chronicles exactly when and how 00:19:12.450 --> 00:19:14.890 that switch was flipped. The list of Manson media 00:19:14.890 --> 00:19:19.170 in our source material is, it's just exhaustive. 00:19:19.170 --> 00:19:20.710 I mean, I'm just looking at the films. The Manson 00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:24.309 Family from 97. La Freaky, Die Freaky from 2006. 00:19:24.930 --> 00:19:27.410 Charlie Says from 2018. The Haunting of Sharon 00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:30.490 Tate. A truly terrible movie, by the way. And 00:19:30.490 --> 00:19:32.980 of course, the big one. Quentin Tarantino's Once 00:19:32.980 --> 00:19:36.039 Upon a Time in Hollywood from 2019. Which is 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.299 such an interesting counterpoint to all the others. 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.359 Because it's a revisionist history. It's a fairy 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:43.420 tale that gives Sharon Tate the happy ending 00:19:43.420 --> 00:19:46.000 she was brutally denied in real life. But the 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.660 thing is, you can't appreciate the power of that 00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:51.200 revision unless you already know the original 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.400 horror story. Right. The whole tension of that 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.680 movie relies on the audience knowing what's supposed 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.200 to happen that night. Yes. We're dreading the 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:00.789 inevitable. Which makes the twist. when it comes 00:20:00.789 --> 00:20:04.410 so cathartic and powerful. The film is in direct 00:20:04.410 --> 00:20:06.490 conversation with the narratives cemented by 00:20:06.490 --> 00:20:08.410 Helter Skelter. And it's not stopping. There's 00:20:08.410 --> 00:20:11.230 even an upcoming project listed here, CAAOS, 00:20:11.329 --> 00:20:13.190 The Manson Murders, which is slated for 2025. 00:20:13.710 --> 00:20:16.150 It feels like we just can't, as a culture, let 00:20:16.150 --> 00:20:18.569 this go. It's become the closest thing America 00:20:18.569 --> 00:20:22.329 has to a foundational dark myth, like a Greek 00:20:22.329 --> 00:20:24.789 tragedy. It has every element you could ask for. 00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:28.970 Celebrity, beauty, sex, drugs, rock and roll. 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.259 cults, religion, and horrifying death. And it 00:20:33.259 --> 00:20:35.799 all sits right at the fulcrum of a massively 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.759 changing society. The end of an era. You could 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:40.640 say the 60s officially ended on the night of 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.220 August 9th, 1969. And we are still replaying 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:46.839 that tape over and over, trying to see if it 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:48.220 could have ended differently. Let's talk a bit 00:20:48.220 --> 00:20:50.140 more about the family themselves. The book spends 00:20:50.140 --> 00:20:52.480 a lot of time delineating the different personalities. 00:20:52.539 --> 00:20:54.779 It wasn't just Manson and a bunch of, you know, 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.539 mindless robots. No, and that's a common and 00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:00.650 dangerous misconception. The book is very clear 00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:02.430 about the agency of the followers, especially 00:21:02.430 --> 00:21:05.250 the women. Susan Atkins, who they called Sadie, 00:21:05.309 --> 00:21:08.170 was a hardened true believer. Her testimony before 00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:10.750 the grand jury, which is in the book, is terrifyingly 00:21:10.750 --> 00:21:12.890 remorseless. And Patricia Krenwickle, Katie? 00:21:13.089 --> 00:21:15.089 She was a direct and brutal participant in the 00:21:15.089 --> 00:21:17.910 violence at both houses. The book paints a portrait 00:21:17.910 --> 00:21:20.369 of these as individuals who made choices, not 00:21:20.369 --> 00:21:22.970 just as hypnotized zombies. And then, in the 00:21:22.970 --> 00:21:24.970 middle of all that, you have Linda Kazabian. 00:21:25.069 --> 00:21:27.630 The key figure. She is the linchpin of the entire 00:21:27.630 --> 00:21:29.930 prosecution. She went with him on both nights. 00:21:30.029 --> 00:21:32.430 She was the driver. But she never went inside 00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:34.450 the houses and didn't participate in the killings. 00:21:34.549 --> 00:21:36.630 And she's the one who eventually flipped. She 00:21:36.630 --> 00:21:39.170 turned state's evidence. She became Bugliosi's 00:21:39.170 --> 00:21:42.849 star witness. The book positions her as this. 00:21:43.109 --> 00:21:47.089 This fragile, moral center in a universe with 00:21:47.089 --> 00:21:50.809 a complete lack of morality. The entire trial, 00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:53.289 and therefore the entire book, really hinges 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:56.420 on her testimony. Bugliosi had to make a deal 00:21:56.420 --> 00:21:58.460 with her to convict the others. Which adds a 00:21:58.460 --> 00:22:01.240 whole other layer of legal and moral drama, doesn't 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.440 it? Trusting a member of the cult to destroy 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:05.660 the cult. It's a classic prosecutor's dilemma. 00:22:05.859 --> 00:22:08.539 And Bugliosi walks you through his decision -making 00:22:08.539 --> 00:22:11.240 process, his doubts about whether the jury would 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:13.640 believe her. The source also lists names like 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:15.940 Lynette Sweekey from. She wasn't actually charged 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:18.539 with the Tate -LaBianca murders, but she looms 00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:21.019 large in the story as this lingering, ongoing 00:22:21.019 --> 00:22:23.349 threat. She's the proof of Manson's enduring 00:22:23.349 --> 00:22:26.890 hold. She was the most vocal and visible of the 00:22:26.890 --> 00:22:29.349 followers who weren't in jail. She camped out 00:22:29.349 --> 00:22:31.589 on the street corner outside the courthouse every 00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:34.509 single day of the trial, carving an X into her 00:22:34.509 --> 00:22:37.650 forehead in solidarity with Manson. And she later 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:40.250 famously tried to assassinate President Gerald 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:43.450 Ford. Right. The book uses figures like her to 00:22:43.450 --> 00:22:45.829 show that the ideology, the helter -skelter belief 00:22:45.829 --> 00:22:48.690 system, didn't just die when Manson was arrested. 00:22:48.769 --> 00:22:51.839 It was a virus that was still active and dangerous 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.460 out in the world. The locations mentioned in 00:22:54.460 --> 00:22:56.420 the source material Spawn Ranch, Barker Ranch, 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:58.819 they almost become characters in themselves in 00:22:58.819 --> 00:23:00.279 the book. Oh, they're incredibly atmospheric. 00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:03.940 Spawn Ranch in particular. It was this old, dilapidated 00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:06.380 movie set where B -list westerns used to be filmed. 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:09.339 So you have this surreal image of the family 00:23:09.339 --> 00:23:11.940 living in the ruins of a fake Old West, playing 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.200 dress -up as outlaws, while they're literally 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.059 planning the end of the world. It adds this cinematic, 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:20.420 almost unbelievable layer to the reality of it. 00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:23.519 That's way out in Death Valley. It's where they 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.299 were finally captured. It emphasizes the dropout 00:23:26.299 --> 00:23:28.539 nature of the group. They were really trying 00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:32.299 to exit civilization entirely and live on the 00:23:32.299 --> 00:23:34.829 absolute fringes. We touched on the Beatles, 00:23:35.029 --> 00:23:37.509 but we should also acknowledge Manson's own musical 00:23:37.509 --> 00:23:40.150 ambitions because the book makes a big deal out 00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:42.670 of it. Our source even lists as a discography 00:23:42.670 --> 00:23:45.809 for him, an album called Lie, the love and terror 00:23:45.809 --> 00:23:48.609 cult. Yes, and this is absolutely key to his 00:23:48.609 --> 00:23:51.769 psychology. Charles Manson was, at his core, 00:23:51.970 --> 00:23:55.799 a failed musician, a frustrated artist. That 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.640 is central to the story Bugliosi tells. He had 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.640 connections, right? He wasn't just some guy with 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.720 a guitar. He was. He hung out with Dennis Wilson 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.039 of the Beach Boys for a time. The source notes 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:07.039 that the Beach Boys actually recorded a song, 00:24:07.220 --> 00:24:09.819 Never Learn Not to Love, which was a reworked 00:24:09.819 --> 00:24:12.200 version of a Charles Manson song originally called 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.880 Cease to Exist. I mean, just stop and think about 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.299 that for a second. The Beach Boys, the ultimate 00:24:17.299 --> 00:24:19.779 clean -cut all -American vision of California, 00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:22.970 recorded a song written by Charles Manson. It 00:24:22.970 --> 00:24:25.569 shows you how close he came to some form of legitimate 00:24:25.569 --> 00:24:29.650 success. Bugiosi argues pretty persuasively in 00:24:29.650 --> 00:24:32.089 the book that this rejection by the music industry 00:24:32.089 --> 00:24:35.029 is what ultimately fueled his murderous rage. 00:24:35.309 --> 00:24:37.970 He wanted to be bigger than the Beatles. And 00:24:37.970 --> 00:24:40.069 when he realized he couldn't join them, he decided 00:24:40.069 --> 00:24:42.109 to burn down the society that produced them. 00:24:42.329 --> 00:24:44.910 Let's talk about Bugliosi himself. Helter Skelter 00:24:44.910 --> 00:24:47.369 made him a household name, but he did not rest 00:24:47.369 --> 00:24:50.890 on those laurels. Our source lists a pretty significant 00:24:50.890 --> 00:24:53.049 bibliography of his work that came after this 00:24:53.049 --> 00:24:55.329 book. He became a very prolific and I think it's 00:24:55.329 --> 00:24:57.809 fair to say a very combative author. He took 00:24:57.809 --> 00:25:00.150 that prosecutorial mindset and applied it to 00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:02.730 history. He treated history like it was a courtroom 00:25:02.730 --> 00:25:05.369 and he was always making his case. We see and 00:25:05.369 --> 00:25:08.130 the sea will tell from 1991. Another true crime 00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:10.569 classic, a very different kind of case about 00:25:10.569 --> 00:25:12.750 a double murder. on a remote Pacific island. 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:15.269 Again, incredibly detailed. But then he moves 00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:17.430 into much bigger topics, reclaiming history from 00:25:17.430 --> 00:25:21.390 2007. That book is his magnum opus on the JFK 00:25:21.390 --> 00:25:24.069 assassination. Yeah. It is a monster. I mean, 00:25:24.069 --> 00:25:27.529 it's over 1 ,600 pages long. And in it, he essentially 00:25:27.529 --> 00:25:30.490 prosecutes Lee Harvey Oswald and defends the 00:25:30.490 --> 00:25:32.910 Warren Commission report. He attacks the conspiracy 00:25:32.910 --> 00:25:35.450 theorists with the exact same logical evidence 00:25:35.450 --> 00:25:37.890 -based ferocity that he attacked the Manson defense 00:25:37.890 --> 00:25:40.799 team with. And then the prosecution of George 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:43.880 W. Bush for murder from 2008. You see the pattern, 00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:46.539 right? He frames everything as a legal indictment. 00:25:46.700 --> 00:25:48.839 He was a man who seemed to believe in the power 00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:51.400 of a well -argued case, backed by overwhelming 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.019 evidence, to solve any problem, whether it was 00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:56.460 a bizarre cult murder or a controversial presidency. 00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.200 He believed there was a truth with a capital 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.519 T, and he could prove it to you beyond a reasonable 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.349 doubt. He passed away in 2015, which our source 00:26:04.349 --> 00:26:06.529 notes in the context of the book's sales figures 00:26:06.529 --> 00:26:08.789 being updated at the time of his death. He really 00:26:08.789 --> 00:26:11.269 left behind this legacy of rigorous, aggressive, 00:26:11.470 --> 00:26:14.109 argumentative nonfiction. He definitely did not 00:26:14.109 --> 00:26:16.289 write to make friends. He wrote to win the argument. 00:26:16.730 --> 00:26:18.470 Before we start to wrap up, I want to bring up 00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:21.509 one last very strange item from the external 00:26:21.509 --> 00:26:23.950 links section of our source material. It's just 00:26:23.950 --> 00:26:26.369 it's baffling. It's the Kim Jong Il connection, 00:26:26.650 --> 00:26:29.589 isn't it? It is a news article titled Charles 00:26:29.589 --> 00:26:32.589 Manson's letter to end Korean leader Kim Jong 00:26:32.589 --> 00:26:35.269 Il. It's a detail that really underscores the 00:26:35.269 --> 00:26:38.569 persistent, unwavering madness of the man. Years 00:26:38.569 --> 00:26:41.150 and years later, from a prison cell in California, 00:26:41.509 --> 00:26:43.890 Charles Manson was writing letters to the dictator 00:26:43.890 --> 00:26:46.930 of North Korea. But why? What could he possibly 00:26:46.930 --> 00:26:49.109 have to say? From what I can gather, it seems 00:26:49.109 --> 00:26:51.869 Manson saw himself as a political prisoner, a 00:26:51.869 --> 00:26:55.049 revolutionary, and a world leader in exile. He 00:26:55.049 --> 00:26:57.509 saw Kim Jong -il, another international pariah, 00:26:57.589 --> 00:27:00.190 as a peer, as someone who would understand him. 00:27:00.529 --> 00:27:03.829 It's this final, absurd, pathetic footnote that 00:27:03.829 --> 00:27:06.049 shows Manson's grand delusion never wavered. 00:27:06.250 --> 00:27:08.509 He still thought he was a major player on the 00:27:08.509 --> 00:27:10.990 world stage, even while he was rotting away in 00:27:10.990 --> 00:27:13.569 a cell. fascinating and deeply disturbing. OK, 00:27:13.670 --> 00:27:15.750 so to try and bring all this together, Helter 00:27:15.750 --> 00:27:17.589 Skelter is so much more than just a true crime 00:27:17.589 --> 00:27:20.089 book. It's a seven million copy bestseller that 00:27:20.089 --> 00:27:23.009 serves as a kind of autopsy report for the 1960s. 00:27:23.190 --> 00:27:26.150 It's the definitive procedural account of how 00:27:26.150 --> 00:27:29.529 a legal team methodically dismantled a cult and 00:27:29.529 --> 00:27:32.029 its messiah. It took a Beatles song and forever 00:27:32.029 --> 00:27:34.789 transformed it into a symbol of ultimate terror. 00:27:35.309 --> 00:27:37.329 And at the end of the day, it established the 00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:40.190 template, the DNA, for almost every true crime 00:27:40.190 --> 00:27:43.230 podcast, documentary, and book that has followed 00:27:43.230 --> 00:27:45.240 in its wake. I want to leave our listener with 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.259 one final provocative thought. We've talked about 00:27:48.259 --> 00:27:50.740 this long list of media, films and shows from 00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:53.180 1971 all the way up to a new project scheduled 00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:56.460 for 2025. We are coming up on 60 years since 00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:59.119 these crimes were committed. Why are we as a 00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:01.859 society still retelling this one specific story 00:28:01.859 --> 00:28:04.180 over and over again? That's the big question, 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.779 isn't it? I think it might be because this story 00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:09.359 represents the ultimate loss of innocence narrative 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:12.240 for modern America. It's the moment the door 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:14.839 was locked for good. The moment you stopped picking 00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:17.259 up the hitchhiker on the side of the road. We 00:28:17.259 --> 00:28:19.140 keep going back to it, I think, because we're 00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:20.920 still trying to understand how the beautiful, 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:24.900 hopeful dream of the 60s turned into such a specific, 00:28:25.059 --> 00:28:28.599 ugly and violent nightmare. And for better or 00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:31.480 worse, Vincent Bugliosi's book is the only real 00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:34.660 map we have of that descent. The map of the descent. 00:28:35.289 --> 00:28:37.529 That is a chilling and perfect place to end it. 00:28:37.569 --> 00:28:39.869 Thank you for helping me unpack this monster 00:28:39.869 --> 00:28:41.890 of a book. My pleasure. It was a fascinating 00:28:41.890 --> 00:28:44.390 deep dive. And thank you as always to our listeners. 00:28:44.549 --> 00:28:46.730 If you want to explore any of the sources or 00:28:46.730 --> 00:28:48.750 adaptations we talked about today, check out 00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:51.049 the show notes. We will see you on the next deep 00:28:51.049 --> 00:28:51.349 dive.