WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.919 All right. Welcome back to the deep dive. Hey 00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:05.960 there. Today we are, um, we're opening a file 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:10.300 that I think for a lot of us is just, it's etched 00:00:10.300 --> 00:00:12.660 into our memories, whether we want it to be or 00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:15.589 not. It's a defining one. A real line in the 00:00:15.589 --> 00:00:18.129 sand. It really is. We're talking about Columbi. 00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:20.370 It's the watershed moment. And, you know, we're 00:00:20.370 --> 00:00:23.510 sitting here on February 2nd, 2026. Almost 27 00:00:23.510 --> 00:00:26.050 years later. Yeah, nearly 27 years. And it still 00:00:26.050 --> 00:00:28.690 feels like the dust hasn't settled. It's the 00:00:28.690 --> 00:00:31.350 event that really split recent American history 00:00:31.350 --> 00:00:34.490 into a before and an after. Before and after 00:00:34.490 --> 00:00:37.509 how we look at schools. At safety. Yeah. Teenagers, 00:00:37.570 --> 00:00:39.909 really. Completely. And it's not just a memory. 00:00:40.049 --> 00:00:41.990 No, and that's the reason we're revisiting this 00:00:41.990 --> 00:00:43.750 right now. It isn't just about the historical 00:00:43.750 --> 00:00:47.049 weight. The story itself has actually, it's changed. 00:00:47.289 --> 00:00:50.170 It has. There's been a, well, a very grim development. 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.240 as recently as early 2025, that actually forces 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:56.439 us to rewrite the official statistics of that 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:58.579 day. That's right. History isn't static. And 00:00:58.579 --> 00:01:01.359 what researchers call the Columbine effect is 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:03.500 still very much active. Explain that. What is 00:01:03.500 --> 00:01:06.280 the Columbine effect? It's the idea that this 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:09.239 specific tragedy became the origin code, like 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:12.239 a script for violence that's been run, you know, 00:01:12.260 --> 00:01:15.519 over 70 times by copycats as of last summer. 00:01:16.060 --> 00:01:19.079 Seventy. Wow. It established a blueprint for 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:22.140 how to do this. So our mission today, it's pretty 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:24.959 specific. We want to get past the pop culture 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:29.280 version of this story. You know, ignore the TV 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:31.659 movies, the rumors, and go straight to the source 00:01:31.659 --> 00:01:35.060 deck you've brought in. The police reports, FBI 00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:37.959 files, the actual journals. And the really thorough 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:40.859 Wikipedia compilation of all those events. Exactly. 00:01:40.859 --> 00:01:42.780 We want to see what actually happened stripped 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:44.840 of all the mythology. And believe me, there is 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.640 a lot of mythology to strip away. There is. And 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:49.719 I think the place we have to start is with the 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:51.760 biggest misconception of them all. Okay. If you 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.819 ask the average person on the street what Columbine 00:01:53.819 --> 00:01:55.659 was, they'll tell you it was a school shooting. 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:58.700 They'll say two kids went in with guns to shoot 00:01:58.700 --> 00:02:00.560 their classmates. And that's the very first thing 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:03.040 the search material just completely corrects. 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.719 Columbine was not intended to be a school shooting. 00:02:05.780 --> 00:02:08.340 It wasn't. It was a failed bombing. That distinction. 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:12.620 Failed bombing versus shooting. It feels like 00:02:12.620 --> 00:02:14.759 a technicality at first, but when you dig into 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:17.219 their actual plan, it changes everything. It 00:02:17.219 --> 00:02:19.400 changes the entire scale of their intent. I mean, 00:02:19.419 --> 00:02:22.020 a shooting is horrific, obviously, but a bombing? 00:02:22.669 --> 00:02:24.650 That's domestic terrorism. Right. Their goal 00:02:24.650 --> 00:02:27.229 wasn't to kill 12 students and a teacher. They 00:02:27.229 --> 00:02:29.650 wanted to kill hundreds. They wanted to outdo 00:02:29.650 --> 00:02:32.509 the Oklahoma City bombing. That's what they said. 00:02:32.590 --> 00:02:34.590 They wanted to bring the entire school library 00:02:34.590 --> 00:02:37.770 crashing down on top of the cafeteria. The shooting 00:02:37.770 --> 00:02:40.189 was just plan B. It was what they resorted to 00:02:40.189 --> 00:02:43.409 because their technology failed them. And we 00:02:43.409 --> 00:02:44.810 are definitely going to get into the granular 00:02:44.810 --> 00:02:47.310 details of that failure because it's terrifying 00:02:47.310 --> 00:02:49.650 how close they came to succeeding. It's chilling. 00:02:50.250 --> 00:02:51.669 But before we get into the timeline, we have 00:02:51.669 --> 00:02:53.770 to talk about the who. Eric Harris and Dylan 00:02:53.770 --> 00:02:57.169 Klebold. The names everyone knows. And the narrative 00:02:57.169 --> 00:03:00.090 that sprung up almost immediately in 1999 was 00:03:00.090 --> 00:03:02.250 that these were, you know, two isolated, friendless 00:03:02.250 --> 00:03:05.189 loners. The outcasts. Yeah, the outcasts who 00:03:05.189 --> 00:03:07.930 were bullied relentlessly until they finally 00:03:07.930 --> 00:03:09.930 snapped. That whole Revenge of the Nerds story. 00:03:10.389 --> 00:03:13.110 Hmm. It's a very comfortable narrative, isn't 00:03:13.110 --> 00:03:16.009 it? How do you mean? Well, it gives us a clear 00:03:16.009 --> 00:03:18.550 cause and effect. Society pushed them, so they 00:03:18.550 --> 00:03:21.169 pushed back. It makes it understandable in a 00:03:21.169 --> 00:03:23.330 way. But looking at these profiles, that doesn't 00:03:23.330 --> 00:03:25.530 really hold up. No, the reality is much more 00:03:25.530 --> 00:03:27.810 complex and much more disturbing. Let's start 00:03:27.810 --> 00:03:30.469 with Eric Harris. He was 18 at the time. And 00:03:30.469 --> 00:03:33.330 he was an Air Force brat, as they say. Exactly. 00:03:33.430 --> 00:03:36.409 He moved around constantly. His dad was a transport 00:03:36.409 --> 00:03:39.930 pilot, so they lived in Ohio, Michigan, New York. 00:03:39.990 --> 00:03:42.270 He was always the new kid. For a lot of his life, 00:03:42.389 --> 00:03:45.139 yeah. The family finally settled in Littleton, 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.599 Colorado in 1993 after his father retired. Which 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:51.400 can be tough, for sure. But then you have Dylan 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:53.840 Claybold, who is the complete opposite. Total 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:56.719 opposite. Dylan was 17, born and raised in Colorado. 00:03:56.939 --> 00:03:59.139 He had roots there. And his home life. Yeah. 00:03:59.259 --> 00:04:01.219 It really flies in the face of the stereotype. 00:04:01.460 --> 00:04:04.400 It really does. His parents were pacifists. They 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:07.840 attended a Lutheran church. They were very vocally 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:10.900 anti -gun. This was not a household where violence 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:13.599 was glorified at the dinner table. And yet these 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:16.230 two find each other. And the label that got slapped 00:04:16.230 --> 00:04:18.370 on them, the one that I think most people still 00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:22.610 remember, is the Trenchcoat Mafia. Ah, yes. The 00:04:22.610 --> 00:04:26.329 great media panic of 1999. I remember the news 00:04:26.329 --> 00:04:29.410 footage, the anchors obsessing over this supposed 00:04:29.410 --> 00:04:31.970 goth gang that ran the school's underbelly. And 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:34.850 the Trenchcoat Mafia was a real group at Columbine. 00:04:34.850 --> 00:04:37.329 It was a clique of kids who were sort of the 00:04:37.329 --> 00:04:40.449 anti -jocks. They wore black trenchcoats, listened 00:04:40.449 --> 00:04:42.949 to industrial music. But Harrison Klebold weren't 00:04:42.949 --> 00:04:45.920 in it. They were not members. This is a key point. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.420 If you look at the official yearbook photos of 00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:50.939 the Trenchcoat Mafia from that year, Harris and 00:04:50.939 --> 00:04:53.139 Klebold are not in the picture. So they were 00:04:53.139 --> 00:04:55.899 adjacent. Exactly. They were friends with members. 00:04:56.019 --> 00:04:57.980 They floated in those circles, but they weren't 00:04:57.980 --> 00:05:00.660 in the gang. So why the trenchcoats during the 00:05:00.660 --> 00:05:03.600 attack if it wasn't a gang thing? It was utility. 00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:06.910 Pure and simple. Think about the arsenal they 00:05:06.910 --> 00:05:08.970 were trying to conceal. You can't just walk through 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:11.610 a high school parking lot with a sawed -off shotgun 00:05:11.610 --> 00:05:14.350 and a carbine rifle hanging by your side. The 00:05:14.350 --> 00:05:17.089 codes were to hide the weapons. It was a tactical 00:05:17.089 --> 00:05:19.230 decision. It had very little to do with a fashion 00:05:19.230 --> 00:05:22.889 statement. It's just wild how a practical choice 00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:26.910 by a killer becomes a symbol for a whole subculture. 00:05:27.069 --> 00:05:29.980 It's the power of media narrative. But let's 00:05:29.980 --> 00:05:32.500 look at their behavior before the attack. Because 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:34.439 they weren't exactly flying under the radar. 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.399 They had a criminal record. They did. And this 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:39.560 is a piece of the puzzle that often gets glossed 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:42.899 over. In January of 1998. So a little more than 00:05:42.899 --> 00:05:45.220 a year before the massacre. Right. They were 00:05:45.220 --> 00:05:48.040 arrested. This was the van incident. Yep. They 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.100 broke into a parked van near Littleton. Stole 00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:53.240 some tools, computer equipment, nothing huge. 00:05:53.579 --> 00:05:56.050 But it was a felony. And they got caught. They 00:05:56.050 --> 00:05:58.129 were caught, charged, and they pleaded guilty 00:05:58.129 --> 00:06:01.850 to felony theft. Now, in many cases, this is 00:06:01.850 --> 00:06:04.490 where a real intervention might happen. You get 00:06:04.490 --> 00:06:06.370 into the system, the system sees a red flag. 00:06:06.569 --> 00:06:08.769 And they did get into the system. They were put 00:06:08.769 --> 00:06:11.370 into a juvenile diversion program. Which is meant 00:06:11.370 --> 00:06:13.810 to keep kids out of jail. Exactly. It involves 00:06:13.810 --> 00:06:16.829 counseling, community service, anger management 00:06:16.829 --> 00:06:19.949 classes. And by all official accounts, Harris 00:06:19.949 --> 00:06:22.509 and Klebold were the model students of this program. 00:06:22.990 --> 00:06:25.449 They completely gamed it. Perfectly. They went 00:06:25.449 --> 00:06:28.050 to the anger management classes. Harris wrote 00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:31.430 these incredibly articulate essays about how 00:06:31.430 --> 00:06:33.629 much he'd learned, how he understood the error 00:06:33.629 --> 00:06:36.910 of his ways. He's chilling. They were so convincing 00:06:36.910 --> 00:06:39.670 that their diversion officers released them from 00:06:39.670 --> 00:06:42.930 the program a month early. For what? For good 00:06:42.930 --> 00:06:45.509 behavior. Wow. So they were sitting in anger 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:48.870 management, nodding along, writing apology letters 00:06:48.870 --> 00:06:51.899 to the victim. All... while they were actively 00:06:51.899 --> 00:06:54.819 planning the deadliest school attack in U .S. 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.800 history. It shows their ability to deceive, their 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:00.259 cunning. They knew exactly what the adults wanted 00:07:00.259 --> 00:07:02.860 to hear. They could present this mask of sanity 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:05.980 while their real lives were something else entirely. 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:08.480 And that calculation, that planning, it extended 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:10.639 to the hardware. Oh, absolutely. I want to spend 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:12.360 a minute on the arsenal because when you list 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:14.899 it all out, it's just staggering that two teenagers 00:07:14.899 --> 00:07:17.220 could get all of this. It is a massive cache. 00:07:17.459 --> 00:07:19.439 Let's break it down by the guns first. Okay. 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:22.160 They had four guns between them. Eric Harris 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:26.139 carried a Highpoint 995 carbine, that's a 9mm 00:07:26.139 --> 00:07:29.680 semi -automatic rifle. And a shotgun. And a sawed 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.939 -off Savage pump -action shotgun. Okay, so that's 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:35.699 Harris. What about Klebold? Dylan Klebold had 00:07:35.699 --> 00:07:39.120 the infamous Tech -9 handgun. A gun that was 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.160 basically a media villain in the 90s. Totally. 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:46.019 A semi -automatic pistol. And he also had a sawed 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:49.259 -off Stevens double -barrel shotgun. So neither 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:51.259 of them was old enough to buy these legally, 00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:54.040 at least not the handguns or the rifle. How did 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.680 they get them? This is the classic straw purchase 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:59.959 scenario. In late 1998, they went to a gun show. 00:08:00.139 --> 00:08:02.019 With a friend. With a friend of theirs, Robin 00:08:02.019 --> 00:08:04.600 Anderson. She was 18. So she was of legal age. 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:07.100 She was. And at the gun show, she bought the 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:09.860 high point carbine and the two shotguns for them 00:08:09.860 --> 00:08:12.220 from private sellers. Which meant fewer background 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:14.860 checks back then. Exactly. The rules were different. 00:08:14.980 --> 00:08:16.939 It was what they called the gun show loophole. 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:19.759 She handed over the cash, took the guns, and 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:22.149 later gave them to Harris and Klebold. And did 00:08:22.149 --> 00:08:24.529 she have any idea what they were planning? Her 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:26.829 testimony was that she had no clue. She said 00:08:26.829 --> 00:08:28.490 she thought they just wanted them for target 00:08:28.490 --> 00:08:31.910 shooting. Wow. But that one single act armed 00:08:31.910 --> 00:08:34.710 them with three of the four murder weapons. And 00:08:34.710 --> 00:08:38.669 the fourth gun, the Tech -9. That came from another 00:08:38.669 --> 00:08:41.590 friend, Mark Maines. He sold it to them for 500 00:08:41.590 --> 00:08:44.250 bucks. He knew they were underage. Did he get 00:08:44.250 --> 00:08:46.730 in trouble? He did. He went to jail for providing 00:08:46.730 --> 00:08:50.460 a handgun to a minor. But the guns? As we said, 00:08:50.539 --> 00:08:52.500 the guns were just the backup plan. That's right. 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.240 The explosives are what really show their ambition. 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:59.919 The source notes say they had 99 bombs. 99! Think 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:03.019 about that. The sheer logistics of building 99 00:09:03.019 --> 00:09:05.980 explosive devices in your parents' garage without 00:09:05.980 --> 00:09:08.299 anyone noticing. What kind of bombs were they 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:10.500 making? It was a whole mix. They had simple pipe 00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:13.879 bombs. Like galvanized pipe, gunpowder. Yep. 00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:17.120 Filled with shrapnel. They had things they called 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.639 crickets, which were CO2 cartridges, like for 00:09:19.639 --> 00:09:21.960 a BB gun that they filled with powder. They had 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.820 Molotov cocktails. But the main event, the heavy 00:09:24.820 --> 00:09:27.100 hitters. The heavy artillery was the propane 00:09:27.100 --> 00:09:29.500 tanks. And these weren't the little green camping 00:09:29.500 --> 00:09:32.899 canisters. No, no. These were the standard 20 00:09:32.899 --> 00:09:35.379 -pound propane tanks you hook up to a barbecue 00:09:35.379 --> 00:09:37.820 grill. They took these tanks and rigged them 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:40.039 with timing devices made from cheap alarm clocks. 00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:43.259 So you have two high school kids building what 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:46.000 are basically weapons of mass destruction in 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.259 their suburban bedrooms. And that brings us to 00:09:48.259 --> 00:09:51.899 the plan, the actual original plan for April 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:54.820 20th. To understand the horror of what they wanted, 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.179 you really have to visualize the school's layout. 00:09:57.299 --> 00:10:01.799 You do. They took two large duffel bags. Inside 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:04.580 each one was one of these 20 -pound propane bombs 00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:08.500 surrounded by cans of gasoline and shrapnel to 00:10:08.500 --> 00:10:11.460 maximize the carnage. And they walked these into 00:10:11.460 --> 00:10:13.480 the cafeteria. During the busiest time of day, 00:10:13.659 --> 00:10:16.440 the A lunch shift, they just placed these two 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.759 bags under tables among all the other backpacks. 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:20.360 Nobody gave them a second look. And then they 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.559 just walked out. They walked out, leaving the 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:25.139 timers ticking. Set for a very specific moment. 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:29.179 11 .17 a .m. At that moment, the cafeteria held 00:10:29.179 --> 00:10:32.960 488 students. Almost 500 people. And the plan 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:34.940 was for those bombs to detonate simultaneously. 00:10:35.419 --> 00:10:37.620 The fireball would have killed or maimed everyone 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:39.860 in the immediate vicinity, but the real goal 00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:42.519 was the structural damage. The library. The library 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:44.820 was located directly above the cafeteria. So 00:10:44.820 --> 00:10:46.620 the blast was meant to go up. The blast goes 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:49.779 up, the floor of the library collapses, and everyone 00:10:49.779 --> 00:10:51.980 in the library falls into the burning cafeteria 00:10:51.980 --> 00:10:55.509 below. My God. The police later estimated that 00:10:55.509 --> 00:10:58.230 if those bombs had worked as designed, the death 00:10:58.230 --> 00:11:00.309 toll would have easily been in the hundreds. 00:11:00.509 --> 00:11:03.129 It would have been the deadliest act of domestic 00:11:03.129 --> 00:11:05.850 terrorism in U .S. history at that point. And 00:11:05.850 --> 00:11:07.350 while all this was supposed to be happening, 00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:10.970 where were Harris and Klebold? They planned to 00:11:10.970 --> 00:11:15.649 be outside in the parking lot waiting. For what? 00:11:15.929 --> 00:11:19.620 To shoot the survivors. Their plan was to wait 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:22.500 for the explosion, and then as the wounded, burning, 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:25.059 terrified students came running out of the rubble, 00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:27.299 Harris and Klebold would be waiting with their 00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:29.539 rifles to pick them off. It was a kill zone, 00:11:29.740 --> 00:11:31.980 a two -stage ambush. And they even planned for 00:11:31.980 --> 00:11:34.279 the police response. Diversionary bombs. Right. 00:11:34.340 --> 00:11:36.679 They planted a bomb in a field about three miles 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.340 away. It was set to go off a few minutes earlier 00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:41.519 to draw the fire department and police away from 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.960 the school, buying them more time. And that smaller 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:46.700 bomb actually did go off. Right. It did, partially. 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.019 It detonated and started a small fire. The diversion 00:11:50.019 --> 00:11:55.159 worked to a degree. But the main event, the cafeteria 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:58.379 bombs, they failed. So take us to that moment. 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:02.419 It's 11 .17 a .m. You're Harrison Klebold. You're 00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:04.340 outside. You're waiting for the world to end. 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:08.330 Yeah. And then... Just silence. 11 .17 comes 00:12:08.330 --> 00:12:11.570 and goes. 11 .18. Inside, you can see on the 00:12:11.570 --> 00:12:13.149 surveillance footage, it's just a completely 00:12:13.149 --> 00:12:15.490 normal lunch period. The bombs are sitting there, 00:12:15.570 --> 00:12:18.009 inert. Do we know why they failed? Not for sure. 00:12:18.190 --> 00:12:21.049 It could have been faulty wiring, bad timers, 00:12:21.049 --> 00:12:23.830 something in their construction was flawed. But 00:12:23.830 --> 00:12:26.029 the terrorist attack was a failure. And this 00:12:26.029 --> 00:12:28.500 is the pivot. The psychological turning point. 00:12:28.779 --> 00:12:31.679 Most people, if their plan failed so spectacularly, 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:33.480 they might just run. They'd panic, get out of 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.240 there, cut their losses. But they didn't run, 00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:38.620 they improvised. At 11 .19 a .m., realizing the 00:12:38.620 --> 00:12:40.539 explosion wasn't coming, they walked to the top 00:12:40.539 --> 00:12:42.679 of the West Staircase. It overlooks the fields 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:44.559 where students were eating lunch. And they made 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:46.899 a statement, visually. They did. Harris took 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:49.080 off his trench coat. Underneath, he had a white 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.299 t -shirt with the words natural selection printed 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:53.830 on it. And Klebold. Klebold kept his coat on, 00:12:53.929 --> 00:12:56.230 but underneath he wore a black T -shirt with 00:12:56.230 --> 00:12:59.809 the word wrath in red letters. Natural selection 00:12:59.809 --> 00:13:01.929 and wrath. It's like they were wearing their 00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:05.009 motives. At 11 .19 a .m., they raised their guns 00:13:05.009 --> 00:13:09.090 and the shooting began. The first victims, they 00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:11.529 were right there on the grass having lunch. Rachel 00:13:11.529 --> 00:13:14.509 Scott and Richard Costaldo. Just two kids enjoying 00:13:14.509 --> 00:13:17.690 the sunshine. Harris opened fire. Rachel Scott 00:13:17.690 --> 00:13:20.049 was hit four times, killed instantly. Richard 00:13:20.049 --> 00:13:23.360 Costaldo was hit eight times. Eight. He survived, 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.840 but was left permanently paralyzed. It happened 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.340 so fast. Yeah. And then they turned their attention 00:13:28.340 --> 00:13:31.080 to the staircase itself. Yes. Shooting at students 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:33.360 coming in and out of the west entrance. Daniel 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:35.960 Rohrball was killed there. And inside, the confusion 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:37.940 must have been absolute. You have to remember, 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.620 this is a high school. Kids hear popping sounds. 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:42.960 They think it's fireworks, a senior prank, maybe 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.080 a paintball gun. It doesn't register as real 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:48.360 at first. No. But one person knew exactly what 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:51.179 was happening. Dave Sanders. The teacher. He 00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:53.519 was a coach and a business teacher, and he was 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:55.759 in the cafeteria when the shooting started. He 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.179 heard the gunfire, saw the panic. And he didn't 00:13:58.179 --> 00:14:01.759 run away from it. He ran towards it. He and some 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.019 of the school custodians started yelling at students, 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:06.639 getting them to hide under tables, then evacuating 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:10.019 them out other exits. He's credited with clearing 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:12.779 that cafeteria. He saved hundreds of lives in 00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:14.799 those first few minutes. Hundreds. If the shooters 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:17.279 had entered that packed cafeteria, even without 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.059 the bombs, the death toll would have been so 00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:21.059 much higher. But they didn't go into the cafeteria 00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:23.759 yet. They went into the school, down the hallway. 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:26.220 And eventually, they made their way to the library. 00:14:26.620 --> 00:14:29.620 11 .29 a .m., 10 minutes after the first shot 00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:31.940 was fired, they enter the library. And this. 00:14:32.590 --> 00:14:34.870 This is the deadliest part of the entire event. 00:14:35.009 --> 00:14:36.950 Looking at the timeline, it's just a black hole 00:14:36.950 --> 00:14:39.909 of violence. It is. The library massacre lasted 00:14:39.909 --> 00:14:44.730 from 11 .29 to 11 .36 a .m. Seven and a half 00:14:44.730 --> 00:14:46.809 minutes. In those seven and a half minutes, 10 00:14:46.809 --> 00:14:49.649 students were murdered and 12 more were wounded. 00:14:49.870 --> 00:14:52.870 It was an absolute slaughterhouse. And the accounts 00:14:52.870 --> 00:14:55.850 from the survivors in that room, it wasn't just 00:14:55.850 --> 00:14:59.059 random violence. It was sadistic. They were taunting 00:14:59.059 --> 00:15:01.320 their victims. They were clearly reveling in 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.519 the power and the terror they were causing. They 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:05.860 were playing games. They were. They would walk 00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:08.159 up to tables where students were hiding, slam 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:10.200 their hands on the top, and then look underneath. 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:14.139 The infamous peekaboo moment with Cassie Bernal. 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.399 Harris said that right before he shot her. Yes. 00:15:16.779 --> 00:15:20.059 He looked under the table, said peekaboo, and 00:15:20.059 --> 00:15:22.580 pulled the trigger. This brings up a specific 00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:25.720 myth we have to address right now. The she said 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:30.230 yes story. The story of martyrdom. Exactly. The 00:15:30.230 --> 00:15:32.210 story that went around the world, it became books 00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:34.909 and songs, was that one of the shooters put a 00:15:34.909 --> 00:15:38.029 gun to Cassie Bernal's head and asked, do you 00:15:38.029 --> 00:15:40.830 believe in God? And that she said yes, and then 00:15:40.830 --> 00:15:43.409 they killed her for her faith. A powerful story. 00:15:43.970 --> 00:15:46.889 But the source material is very clear. It is. 00:15:46.909 --> 00:15:49.250 That did not happen to Cassie Bernal. The witnesses 00:15:49.250 --> 00:15:51.250 who were hiding right next to her, specifically 00:15:51.250 --> 00:15:54.289 a student named Emily Wyant, confirmed that the 00:15:54.289 --> 00:15:56.830 peekaboo exchange was all that was said to Cassie. 00:15:56.929 --> 00:15:59.789 So where did the God question come from? It didn't 00:15:59.789 --> 00:16:02.409 just appear out of thin air? No, it was a conflation 00:16:02.409 --> 00:16:05.190 of events. A similar exchange did happen, but 00:16:05.190 --> 00:16:08.230 with a different student. Valene Schnur. Yes. 00:16:08.769 --> 00:16:11.230 Valene had already been shot and was on the floor 00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:14.549 bleeding. In her pain and panic, she was screaming, 00:16:14.669 --> 00:16:17.230 oh my God, oh my God. And Klebold heard her. 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.759 Klebold walked over to her and tauntingly asked 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.779 if she believed in God. She said yes. He asked 00:16:23.779 --> 00:16:25.980 why. She said it was because of her faith and 00:16:25.980 --> 00:16:28.059 what her parents taught her. And then he just 00:16:28.059 --> 00:16:30.740 reloaded his gun and walked away. He didn't shoot 00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:34.220 her again. She survived. So the theological confrontation 00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:37.809 happened, but the victim. And the outcome were 00:16:37.809 --> 00:16:40.429 completely different from the famous story. Exactly. 00:16:40.429 --> 00:16:43.289 It shows how trauma and chaos can merge different 00:16:43.289 --> 00:16:46.809 stories into one powerful but inaccurate narrative. 00:16:47.169 --> 00:16:49.049 There was also a racial element in the library, 00:16:49.190 --> 00:16:51.529 wasn't there? Yes, with Isaiah Schulz. He was 00:16:51.529 --> 00:16:53.350 one of the few African -American students at 00:16:53.350 --> 00:16:56.009 the school. He was. And survivor accounts are 00:16:56.009 --> 00:16:58.250 clear that when Harris and Klebold found him 00:16:58.250 --> 00:17:01.009 under a table, they yelled racial slurs at him 00:17:01.009 --> 00:17:03.649 before Harris shot him. It adds another layer 00:17:03.649 --> 00:17:06.250 of hate to the crime. It wasn't just indiscriminate. 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.740 It was a hate crime within a mass murder. Correct. 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:11.000 And then we have the victims who tried to fight 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.519 back, even in that moment. Daniel Mauser. A very 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:17.220 brave kid. The reports say he shoved a chair 00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:19.740 at Harris, tried to stop him, and Harris shot 00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:22.839 him in the face. It shows that even in the midst 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.759 of that absolute terror, there was resistance. 00:17:26.299 --> 00:17:28.980 So the killing in the library stops at 11 .36 00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:32.680 a .m. But the event isn't over. Not by a long 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:34.819 shot. And this is the part of the timeline that 00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:36.900 just makes you want to scream. Where were the 00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:39.839 police? This is the source of so much anger and 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.539 frustration even today. Police were on the scene 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:45.740 outside the school by 11 .22. So they were there 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:48.119 before the library massacre even started? Yes. 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.420 In fact, a Jefferson County deputy, Neil Gardner, 00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:53.839 had already exchanged gunfire with Harris at 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:55.819 the West Entrance. They knew there were active 00:17:55.819 --> 00:17:57.980 shooters. They knew kids were inside. So why 00:17:57.980 --> 00:18:00.160 didn't they go in? The doctrine at the time. 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:03.700 In 1999, standard police procedure for a situation 00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:06.099 like this was perimeter and contain. Meaning 00:18:06.099 --> 00:18:08.799 what? Meaning you surround the building, you 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:11.140 stop the shooter from escaping, you call in the 00:18:11.140 --> 00:18:13.920 SWAT team, and you wait. You treat it like a 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:17.240 hostage situation or a barricaded suspect. But 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.799 this wasn't a hostage situation. This was an 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.619 act of execution. Every second counted. We know 00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:25.619 that now. Hindsight is 20 -20. But at the time, 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:27.400 the officers on the ground were following their 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:29.880 training. They set up a perimeter and they waited. 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.660 Swatt didn't enter the high school until 1 .09 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:37.880 p .m. 1 .09. That's almost two hours after the 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:39.599 first shots were fired. And more importantly, 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:41.200 it's an hour and a half after the shooting in 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.299 the library stopped. So what were Harris and 00:18:43.299 --> 00:18:45.559 Klebel doing during that hour and a half? They 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:49.079 left the library around 11 .36. They just wandered 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:50.819 the halls. They went back down to the cafeteria. 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.359 And the security camera footage from the cafeteria 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.359 during that time is... It's just bizarre. It's 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:59.759 so eerie. They look almost aimless. The adrenaline 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.819 seems to have worn off. They walk around. They 00:19:01.819 --> 00:19:03.839 try to shoot the propane tanks again to get them 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.539 to explode. They throw a Molotov cocktail at 00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:09.200 one. But the bombs still don't go off. Total 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:12.700 failure. Their grand plan was a bust. And while 00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:14.539 they're wandering around trying to light a barbecue 00:19:14.539 --> 00:19:18.059 tank on fire, Dave Sanders is upstairs bleeding 00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:20.480 to death in a science room. That is the ultimate 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.210 tragedy of the police delay. Sanders had been 00:19:23.210 --> 00:19:26.910 shot in the hallway around 11 .26. He managed 00:19:26.910 --> 00:19:29.349 to stagger into a classroom where students pulled 00:19:29.349 --> 00:19:32.950 him in. And these kids? They were trying to save 00:19:32.950 --> 00:19:35.710 him. They were. Applying first aid, using their 00:19:35.710 --> 00:19:38.309 own shirts to put pressure on his wounds. They 00:19:38.309 --> 00:19:40.289 put a sign in the window of the classroom. It 00:19:40.289 --> 00:19:43.349 read, one bleeding to death. So the police outside 00:19:43.349 --> 00:19:46.150 could see it? They could. But the protocol was 00:19:46.150 --> 00:19:48.970 to wait for SWAT. The paramedics weren't allowed 00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:51.269 inside a hot zone. He bled out for three hours. 00:19:51.470 --> 00:19:53.910 He died just before paramedics were finally able 00:19:53.910 --> 00:19:56.069 to reach him. Just devastating. So the shooters, 00:19:56.190 --> 00:19:58.990 they eventually go back to the library. They 00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:01.369 do. Around noon, they go to the windows. They 00:20:01.369 --> 00:20:03.250 fire a few last shots at the police outside. 00:20:03.589 --> 00:20:07.329 And then at approximately 12 .08 p .m. They kill 00:20:07.329 --> 00:20:09.369 themselves. They sit down among the bookshelves 00:20:09.369 --> 00:20:11.950 and commit suicide. So by 12 .08, the violence 00:20:11.950 --> 00:20:16.279 is over. But the toll. We've always said 12 students 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.019 and one teacher killed, 13 victims. That was 00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:21.680 the official number for 26 years. But that brings 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.559 us to the update you mentioned at the very top 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:27.180 of the show, the 2026 perspective on this. It's 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:29.740 a really important and tragic clarification of 00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:32.720 the record. It concerns Anne -Marie Hochhalter. 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.720 She was one of the first students shot outside. 00:20:34.779 --> 00:20:36.700 Yes, she was having lunch with Rachel Scott. 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:39.640 She was shot in the back and paralyzed. She survived 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:42.799 that day, but her life was, you know, completely 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.990 changed. Chronic pain, endless surgeries. And 00:20:45.990 --> 00:20:48.109 her family suffered, too. Her mother committed 00:20:48.109 --> 00:20:49.990 suicide just a few months after the shooting. 00:20:50.170 --> 00:20:54.069 The ripple effects are just, they're immeasurable. 00:20:54.349 --> 00:20:57.490 But Anne -Marie, she became this symbol of resilience 00:20:57.490 --> 00:21:00.509 for so many people. She did. But the damage to 00:21:00.509 --> 00:21:03.349 her body from that bullet was cumulative. On 00:21:03.349 --> 00:21:06.769 February 16th, 2025, Anne -Marie passed away. 00:21:06.970 --> 00:21:08.869 And her death wasn't ruled as being from natural 00:21:08.869 --> 00:21:12.210 causes. No. And this is the key point. In March 00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:14.730 of 2025, the coroner's office made a landmark 00:21:14.730 --> 00:21:18.190 ruling. They ruled her death a homicide. Because? 00:21:18.329 --> 00:21:20.349 Because the complications that ultimately killed 00:21:20.349 --> 00:21:22.789 her were a direct result of the gunshot wounds 00:21:22.789 --> 00:21:26.869 she sustained on April 20th, 1999. So, legally 00:21:26.869 --> 00:21:30.269 and historically, The death toll of the Columbine 00:21:30.269 --> 00:21:33.349 massacre is now 14 victims. It is. The event 00:21:33.349 --> 00:21:35.890 didn't end in 1999. The physical toll continued 00:21:35.890 --> 00:21:39.130 for decades. It's such a crucial thing to understand 00:21:39.130 --> 00:21:42.690 about gun violence. The bullet keeps moving through 00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:46.109 a life long after it stops. We see that slow 00:21:46.109 --> 00:21:48.069 motion tragedy with other survivors too, don't 00:21:48.069 --> 00:21:50.950 we? Austin Eubanks. Austin's story is heartbreaking. 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.039 He was in the library. He was shot in the hand 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.059 and knee. He watched his best friend Cory DePooter 00:21:57.059 --> 00:21:59.859 get murdered right next to him. And in the hospital, 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.829 they gave him painkillers. opioids for the pain, 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:06.049 which was standard procedure. But that prescription 00:22:06.049 --> 00:22:08.690 triggered a decade long battle with addiction. 00:22:08.970 --> 00:22:10.970 He was trying to numb not just the physical pain, 00:22:11.049 --> 00:22:13.349 but the emotional trauma. He eventually got clean 00:22:13.349 --> 00:22:15.509 and became an advocate. He became a really powerful 00:22:15.509 --> 00:22:18.170 speaker on addiction and trauma. And then so 00:22:18.170 --> 00:22:20.509 tragically, he relapsed and died of an overdose 00:22:20.509 --> 00:22:23.410 in 2019. Would you count him as a victim? How 00:22:23.410 --> 00:22:25.910 can you not? The shooting put the needle in his 00:22:25.910 --> 00:22:27.869 arm just as surely as it put the bullet in his 00:22:27.869 --> 00:22:31.509 knee. And Greg Barnes. Greg was a jock. A basketball 00:22:31.509 --> 00:22:35.170 star. He witnessed Dave Sanders being shot. A 00:22:35.170 --> 00:22:37.589 year later, in May of 2000, he committed suicide. 00:22:38.069 --> 00:22:40.650 The weight of what he saw was just too much to 00:22:40.650 --> 00:22:43.490 carry. The blast radius of this event just keeps 00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:46.690 expanding. It does. Which brings us to the question 00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:49.089 that hangs over all of this. The question the 00:22:49.089 --> 00:22:51.309 sheriff admitted he couldn't answer in 1999. 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:55.029 Why? Why did they do it? Why? This is where we 00:22:55.029 --> 00:22:57.269 have to tread carefully because there are so 00:22:57.269 --> 00:23:00.109 many myths and theories. Let's start with the 00:23:00.109 --> 00:23:02.769 one we can mostly debunk, the bullying theory. 00:23:03.009 --> 00:23:05.470 This is the most persistent one. The idea that 00:23:05.470 --> 00:23:07.750 this was a simple act of revenge against a cruel 00:23:07.750 --> 00:23:10.750 jock culture. Was there bullying at Columbine? 00:23:10.809 --> 00:23:13.069 Oh, sure. And were they sometimes on the receiving 00:23:13.069 --> 00:23:15.539 end? Yes. There are credible reports of kids 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:18.079 throwing ketchup -covered tampons at them in 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.019 the cafeteria. Things like that happened. But 00:23:20.019 --> 00:23:22.240 if you read their journals, especially Harris's, 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.059 they weren't at the bottom of the social ladder. 00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:26.839 Harris was a bully himself. He bragged about 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:29.319 picking on younger students, on freshmen. He 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:33.119 had a massive superiority complex, not an inferiority 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:35.220 complex. It wasn't a revenge fantasy against 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:38.000 jocks. It was a revenge fantasy against humanity. 00:23:38.140 --> 00:23:40.559 They looked down on everyone. Okay, what about 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.420 the cultural scapegoats? Marilyn Manson. Poor 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:47.380 Marilyn Manson. The media absolutely crucified 00:23:47.380 --> 00:23:50.160 him. They said his music was the soundtrack to 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.940 the massacre. Turns out they weren't even fans. 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.539 They weren't. They listened to German industrial 00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:58.299 bands like KMFDM and Ramstein. They thought Manson 00:23:58.299 --> 00:24:01.559 was too mainstream to pop. Manson wrote a really 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:03.680 insightful piece in Rolling Stone about it later. 00:24:03.819 --> 00:24:06.140 He did. He said if he could talk to the shooters, 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:08.559 he wouldn't say a thing to them. He would just 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.539 listen because that's what nobody else did. And 00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:14.150 video games. Doom. The Doom connection is a little 00:24:14.150 --> 00:24:17.130 stickier. They were obsessed with it. Harris 00:24:17.130 --> 00:24:19.549 even created custom levels for the game called 00:24:19.549 --> 00:24:22.450 W ads. And he wrote in his journal that the attack 00:24:22.450 --> 00:24:26.210 would be like Doom. He did. But, you know, millions 00:24:26.210 --> 00:24:29.089 of kids played Doom in the 90s. I played Doom. 00:24:29.250 --> 00:24:32.109 I did, too. And I never planned a massacre. Exactly. 00:24:32.309 --> 00:24:34.529 The game might have provided the imagery, the 00:24:34.529 --> 00:24:36.849 language for their violent fantasies, but it 00:24:36.849 --> 00:24:39.390 didn't plant the seed of murder. That C came 00:24:39.390 --> 00:24:42.250 from somewhere much deeper and darker. So if 00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:45.009 it wasn't bullying or music or video games, what 00:24:45.009 --> 00:24:48.269 was it? This is where we get into the FBI's psychological 00:24:48.269 --> 00:24:51.970 analysis. The theory that has become the standard 00:24:51.970 --> 00:24:54.289 explanation. The psychopath and the depressive. 00:24:54.619 --> 00:24:57.259 Right. This was largely popularized by the journalist 00:24:57.259 --> 00:24:59.940 Dave Cullen based on the work of FBI profilers. 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.119 The theory is that this was a toxic partnership 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.859 of two very different pathologies. So Eric Harris 00:25:06.859 --> 00:25:09.339 was the psychopath. A clinical psychopath. Yes. 00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:13.180 No empathy, manipulative, grandiose, a pathological 00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:16.680 liar. He had this messianic complex. He wanted 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:18.759 to kill the world because he genuinely believed 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.799 he was superior. His T -shirt said natural selection. 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:24.779 And Dylan Klebold. Dylan was the depressive. 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.759 He was suicidal, full of rage, but also this 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.279 infinite sadness, as he wrote in his journal. 00:25:30.460 --> 00:25:33.039 He was a follower who was in immense pain. So 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.460 the theory is Harris wanted to kill and Klebold 00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:37.779 wanted to die. And Harris basically said, I have 00:25:37.779 --> 00:25:39.700 a way for you to die that will be epic. We can 00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:42.000 go out in a blaze of glory. It's a very neat 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.759 theory. It explains the dynamic. But is it the 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:47.269 whole truth? Well, there is some pushback from 00:25:47.269 --> 00:25:50.890 other experts. Some psychologists argue it simplifies 00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:53.049 them too much. For instance, if you look at the 00:25:53.049 --> 00:25:56.190 evidence, Dylan wasn't just some sad puppy following 00:25:56.190 --> 00:25:58.849 Eric around. He had his own rage. His shirt said 00:25:58.849 --> 00:26:01.750 Raph. Exactly. And Dylan was actually the first 00:26:01.750 --> 00:26:04.390 one to mention going on a killing spree. In his 00:26:04.390 --> 00:26:07.150 journal, long before Eric did, he had his own 00:26:07.150 --> 00:26:10.410 violent fantasies. And Eric. He wasn't just a 00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:13.470 cold, calculating robot. No. He was taking an 00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:18.200 antidepressant. Lou Vox. And there's the Nixon 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:20.660 tape. Wait, tell us about the Nixon tape. I think 00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:22.180 most people have heard of the basement tapes, 00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:24.359 but this is different. Right. The basement takes 00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:26.759 were the infamous videos they made in Harris's 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:28.940 basement, showing off their guns and ranting. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:32.059 The police destroyed those tapes in 2011 to stop 00:26:32.059 --> 00:26:34.519 them from becoming propaganda for copycats. But 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.339 the Nixon tape. Eric left a microcassette recorder 00:26:37.339 --> 00:26:39.480 on his kitchen table right before they left for 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:42.640 the school. It's a final audio diary entry. What's 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.529 on it? He says goodbye to his parents. He sounds 00:26:45.529 --> 00:26:48.809 emotional. He says, people will die because of 00:26:48.809 --> 00:26:51.190 me. It will be a day that will be remembered 00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:54.650 forever. It's a glimpse into a mind that is fully 00:26:54.650 --> 00:26:57.250 aware of the horror it's about to unleash. And 00:26:57.250 --> 00:27:00.730 is doing it anyway for the memory, for the fame. 00:27:00.849 --> 00:27:03.029 For the infamy. Which brings us to the legacy. 00:27:03.609 --> 00:27:06.569 How the world changed because of this day. We 00:27:06.569 --> 00:27:08.589 talked about the police failure. That failure 00:27:08.589 --> 00:27:11.329 actually revolutionized American policing, didn't 00:27:11.329 --> 00:27:13.630 it? It absolutely did. It gave birth to a tactic 00:27:13.630 --> 00:27:16.359 called IRD. Immediate action, rapid deployment. 00:27:16.660 --> 00:27:19.859 Exactly. Before Columbine, the first officers 00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:22.480 on scene would wait for SWAT. The perimeter and 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.259 contain model. Right. After Columbine, the new 00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.160 rule is if you are a police officer and you hear 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.660 gunshots in a school, you go in. You don't wait 00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:33.220 for backup. You don't wait for a team. You move 00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:35.740 directly toward the sound of gunfire to neutralize 00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:37.759 the threat. That sounds incredibly dangerous 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:40.559 for the officer. It is. But the cold, hard math 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.960 is that every second you wait is another potential 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:46.119 victim. This new protocol has saved lives at 00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:48.220 Virginia Tech, at Sandy Hook, at so many other 00:27:48.220 --> 00:27:51.160 shootings. It ends the killing faster. The other 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:53.759 legacy is in the schools themselves. We entered 00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:56.599 the era of zero tolerance. We did. Suddenly you 00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.220 have metal detectors, clear backpacks, mandatory 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:02.779 ID badges, active shooter drills where you're 00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:05.000 teaching kindergarteners to hide from a gunman. 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.400 We turned schools into fortresses. We hardened 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.980 the targets. And we can debate whether that makes 00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:13.599 kids feel safer or just more anxious. But Columbine 00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:16.079 was the catalyst for that entire security industrial 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.079 complex in education. But the darkest legacy. 00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.180 The one that keeps this story so relevant is 00:28:22.180 --> 00:28:25.339 the Columbine effect. The copycats. The script. 00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:27.440 Malcolm Gladwell wrote about this. The threshold 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:31.319 model. Right. The idea that if no one is rioting, 00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.759 it's very hard to be the first person to throw 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.400 a rock. But once one person throws a rock, it 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.240 becomes much easier for the second person and 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.380 the third. Columbine was the rock. It was the 00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:42.440 rock. It lowered the threshold for this kind 00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.539 of violence for disturbed, angry young men everywhere. 00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:48.529 And they study it. They obsess over it. The shooter 00:28:48.529 --> 00:28:51.809 at Virginia Tech referred to martyrs Eric and 00:28:51.809 --> 00:28:55.269 Dylan. The Sandy Hook shooter had a massive spreadsheet 00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:58.529 of mass killings, but he was obsessed with Columbine. 00:28:58.950 --> 00:29:01.690 The Parkland shooter researched their tactics. 00:29:01.789 --> 00:29:04.230 It became the gold standard. There's even an 00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:06.410 online fandom. People call them Columbiners. 00:29:06.549 --> 00:29:10.180 It's a sickening subculture, but yes. On platforms 00:29:10.180 --> 00:29:12.960 like Tumblr and TikTok, you can find teenagers. 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:15.079 A lot of them are young girls, interestingly, 00:29:15.259 --> 00:29:17.900 who write fan fiction about Harrison Klebold. 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.259 They draw fan art. They romanticize them as these 00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:25.299 tragic, misunderstood antiheroes. A cult of personality 00:29:25.299 --> 00:29:28.640 built on mass murder. Pretty much. Which leads 00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:30.660 to the really uncomfortable thought I wanted 00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:33.539 to end on. We've got this entire deep dive dissecting 00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:35.400 their plans, their motives, their psychology. 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:37.700 We know their names better than we know the names 00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:40.000 of most of the victims. That's a sad truth, but 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.000 it's true. And the sources show that they talked 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:43.980 about this. They talked about what the movie 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:45.859 of their lives would be like. They did. They 00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:48.420 debated which director should make it. Spielberg 00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:51.119 or Tarantino. Yeah. They were casting their own 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.039 biopic before they'd even committed the act. 00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:54.799 They were planning their legacy. We wanted to 00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.019 be famous. They wanted to be immortal. They wanted 00:29:57.019 --> 00:29:59.640 people like us to be sitting here talking about 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:03.480 them 27 years later. And here we are. So the 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.420 provocative question is, and it's one I really 00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:09.440 struggle with, by doing this, by trying to understand 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:14.440 the why, by analyzing every detail, are we inadvertently 00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:16.579 giving them exactly what they wanted? That's 00:30:16.579 --> 00:30:19.240 the paradox of prevention, isn't it? To stop 00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:21.000 the next one from happening, you have to understand 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.359 this one. But in understanding this one, you 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.500 keep their names in the lights. You feed the 00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:27.960 myth. It's a trap they set for all of us back 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.380 in 1999, and we are still caught in it. That 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:33.779 is a heavy thought to leave our listeners with, 00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:37.339 but I think it's the right one. We have to somehow 00:30:37.339 --> 00:30:39.480 learn the lessons of that day, the failed bombs, 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:41.940 the warning signs, the victims like Anne -Marie 00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:44.660 whose suffering lasted for decades without glorifying 00:30:44.660 --> 00:30:47.359 the teachers of that lesson. Well said. This 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:49.259 was a tough one. But thank you for walking us 00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:51.140 through the reality of it, not just the mythology. 00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:53.799 And to all of you listening, take care of yourselves. 00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:57.980 Stay curious. Stay critical. But maybe hug your 00:30:57.980 --> 00:31:00.059 loved ones a little tighter today. We'll see 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:00.940 you in the next deep dive.