WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.520 I want you to close your eyes for a second. Okay, 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:03.879 well, keep them open if you're driving, but use 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:06.980 your imagination. I want to transport you back 00:00:06.980 --> 00:00:09.740 to a very specific moment in the American experiment. 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:13.060 It's the mid -1980s. The economy is booming, 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:17.420 shoulder pads are huge, and greed is. Well, maybe 00:00:17.420 --> 00:00:20.179 not good, like Gordon Gekko said, but it's certainly 00:00:20.179 --> 00:00:23.410 popular. Now, I want you to zoom in on Fort Mill, 00:00:23.530 --> 00:00:25.390 South Carolina. I think I know exactly where 00:00:25.390 --> 00:00:27.850 we're going. I can almost smell the chlorine 00:00:27.850 --> 00:00:29.870 already. You should be. You're standing in the 00:00:29.870 --> 00:00:31.910 middle of a theme park. It's loud. It's sunny. 00:00:32.090 --> 00:00:35.130 And there is absolutely the smell of chlorine 00:00:35.130 --> 00:00:38.609 and like waffle cones in the air. Yeah. Families 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:40.909 are screaming with joy. They're sliding down 00:00:40.909 --> 00:00:44.350 these huge fiberglass water flumes into these 00:00:44.350 --> 00:00:48.280 sparkling blue pools. But this. This isn't Disney. 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:50.359 Yeah. And it isn't Six Flags. This is Heritage 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:52.859 USA. Which, and I think people really forget 00:00:52.859 --> 00:00:55.340 this part, was the third most successful theme 00:00:55.340 --> 00:00:57.359 park in the United States at the time. That's 00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:59.439 the crazy part. It was trailing only the two 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.259 Disneys. That's it. Exactly. And running this 00:01:02.259 --> 00:01:05.540 whole empire is a man who isn't just a CEO. He's 00:01:05.540 --> 00:01:07.920 a spiritual icon. He's a man who looked right 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.980 into the camera and told millions of people that 00:01:10.980 --> 00:01:13.799 God didn't just want them to be good. He wanted 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:17.510 them to be rich. Jim Backer. And then I want 00:01:17.510 --> 00:01:19.730 you to just swipe that image away. Totally delete 00:01:19.730 --> 00:01:23.750 it. Replace the water park with a gray barred 00:01:23.750 --> 00:01:26.129 room in Rochester, Minnesota. The year is roughly 00:01:26.129 --> 00:01:29.370 1990. Okay. Big shift. Huge shift. Suit is gone. 00:01:29.450 --> 00:01:32.430 The hair is different. And this man, Jim Backer, 00:01:32.450 --> 00:01:35.849 is sitting on a bunk. And he's looking at his 00:01:35.849 --> 00:01:38.879 roommate. And his roommate is not a pastor. It's 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:41.840 not a choir director. It is the political extremist 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:45.780 and conspiracy theorist Lyndon LaRouche. It is. 00:01:45.780 --> 00:01:47.420 And this is not an exaggeration. It's arguably 00:01:47.420 --> 00:01:50.239 the strangest odd couple situation in modern 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:52.219 American history. Right. You have the fallen 00:01:52.219 --> 00:01:54.480 televangelist, the king of prosperity gospel, 00:01:54.659 --> 00:01:57.079 and the man who, among other things, thought... 00:01:57.480 --> 00:01:59.420 Queen of England was a high -level drug dealer. 00:01:59.620 --> 00:02:01.239 Just sharing a cell. Just sharing a cell, talking 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:02.680 about who knows what, you know, the breakfast 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:06.079 menu. That is a fall from grace that is so steep 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:10.060 it almost gives you vertigo. But when we started 00:02:10.060 --> 00:02:12.120 pulling the source material for this deep dive, 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:14.560 the court documents, the biographies, the old 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.460 broadcast transcripts, I realized that the rise 00:02:18.460 --> 00:02:21.500 and fall narrative is actually, it's too simple. 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:24.939 It's missing the third act. Right. Because the 00:02:24.939 --> 00:02:27.580 story doesn't end in that prison cell. And that's 00:02:27.580 --> 00:02:29.099 the part that really hooked me when we were prepping 00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:32.020 this. It's the reinvention. No, it doesn't. This 00:02:32.020 --> 00:02:34.080 is a story about a man who, you could argue, 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.319 invented modern religious broadcasting, burned 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:39.280 it all to the ground, went to prison for fraud, 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:43.060 and then somehow came back. But he didn't come 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:46.180 back as the same guy. He reinvented himself to 00:02:46.180 --> 00:02:48.039 match the nightmares of a whole new generation. 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:50.819 It's really a masterclass in adaptation when 00:02:50.819 --> 00:02:52.240 you look at it that way. I mean, we're going 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.080 to look at how you go from selling the prosperity 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.280 gospel, the idea that, you know, Jesus wants 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:59.020 you to drive a Mercedes, to the apocalypse gospel, 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:01.860 where Jesus wants you to buy a giant bucket of 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:03.659 freeze -dried beans because the world is definitely 00:03:03.659 --> 00:03:06.780 ending next Tuesday. So our mission today is 00:03:06.780 --> 00:03:09.139 to decode the mechanism. How did he build the 00:03:09.139 --> 00:03:11.580 empire in the first place? How exactly did the 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:14.139 fraud work that took him down? And then how did 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:17.020 he survive that total collapse to start all over 00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:20.180 again? And honestly, the how is just as fascinating 00:03:20.180 --> 00:03:22.719 as the what. It's a story by the intersection 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:25.800 of faith and finance and the mechanics of mass 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:29.699 media. It's so uniquely American. Let's start 00:03:29.699 --> 00:03:31.340 at the beginning because I think people see the 00:03:31.340 --> 00:03:33.659 caricature, you know, the crying on TV, the makeup, 00:03:33.740 --> 00:03:37.139 and they assume he was always this sort of this 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:39.180 cartoon character. Yeah, the late 80s version 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:41.419 is what's burned into everyone's memory. Exactly. 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.860 But you don't build a global empire by being 00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:45.699 a cartoon. No, you don't. You do it by being 00:03:45.699 --> 00:03:48.310 an innovator. And to understand Jim Backer, you 00:03:48.310 --> 00:03:50.729 have to go back to 1940. He was born in Muskegon, 00:03:50.789 --> 00:03:54.729 Michigan. Very humble beginnings. But the path 00:03:54.729 --> 00:03:57.830 to stardom, it really starts in 1960. He's attending 00:03:57.830 --> 00:04:00.370 North Central University in Minneapolis. A Bible 00:04:00.370 --> 00:04:02.409 college. Right, a Bible college affiliated with 00:04:02.409 --> 00:04:04.689 the Assemblies of God. And this is where he meets 00:04:04.689 --> 00:04:06.990 her, the other half of the power couple, the 00:04:06.990 --> 00:04:08.830 one who would define the brand with him. This 00:04:08.830 --> 00:04:11.789 is where he meets Tammy Faye LaVallee. They were 00:04:11.789 --> 00:04:15.639 both students. The story goes that Jim was working 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.399 at a restaurant in a department store, and Tammy 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.319 was working at a little boutique nearby. And 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:23.480 the source material says the spark was pretty 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:26.660 much instantaneous. So it was love at first sight. 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.379 It really seems so, which was complicated. Apparently 00:04:30.379 --> 00:04:33.740 Jim already had a fiancée back home in Muskegon. 00:04:33.980 --> 00:04:36.180 Ooh, a little bit of drama from the start. A 00:04:36.180 --> 00:04:38.839 little bit, but he began courting Tammy Faye 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.810 immediately. They were just young kids totally 00:04:41.810 --> 00:04:44.589 in love. In fact, they moved so fast that they 00:04:44.589 --> 00:04:46.930 dropped out of college to get married. And the 00:04:46.930 --> 00:04:50.230 wedding date was April 1st, 1961. April Fool's 00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:52.649 Day. You literally can't write that. You really 00:04:52.649 --> 00:04:54.629 can't. If you put that in a movie script, the 00:04:54.629 --> 00:04:57.170 studio would reject it for being too on the nose. 00:04:57.389 --> 00:04:59.529 That's too much. But they made a decision that 00:04:59.529 --> 00:05:01.509 would define the rest of their lives. They dropped 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:05.149 out. They left college to become itinerant evangelists. 00:05:05.250 --> 00:05:07.389 Which, in the early 60s, that's a hard life, 00:05:07.410 --> 00:05:09.050 right? That's not private jets and mansions. 00:05:09.050 --> 00:05:11.290 That's driving from town to town in a beat -up 00:05:11.290 --> 00:05:14.649 car. Oh yeah, it's the van life version of ministry, 00:05:14.910 --> 00:05:17.110 but without the Instagram filters and sponsorships. 00:05:17.110 --> 00:05:19.050 Right. They were driving town to town, hoping 00:05:19.050 --> 00:05:21.350 a church lets you speak, maybe passing a hat. 00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:24.610 They eventually had two children, Tammy Sue and 00:05:24.610 --> 00:05:27.629 Jamie Charles, who goes by Jay. But here is the 00:05:27.629 --> 00:05:30.269 key insight that separates them from every other 00:05:30.269 --> 00:05:34.870 traveling preacher in, say, 1962. They realized 00:05:34.870 --> 00:05:37.269 that just getting up and preaching wasn't enough. 00:05:37.449 --> 00:05:39.720 They needed a hook. A gimmick. They needed a 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:41.759 hook. They needed to be entertainers. And this 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:43.500 is the part of the story that always surprises 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:46.579 people who only know the later scandals. Their 00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:49.079 big break didn't come from fire and brunestone 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:52.420 sermons. It came from puppets. Puppets? Like 00:05:52.420 --> 00:05:54.600 sock puppets on their hands? A little more sophisticated 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.899 than that. Professional comic routines with puppets. 00:05:57.939 --> 00:06:00.779 They created characters. They did skits. And 00:06:00.779 --> 00:06:02.980 this was, believe it or not, revolutionary at 00:06:02.980 --> 00:06:05.519 the time because it made religion... approachable 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:07.439 for kids and families in a way that, you know, 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:10.379 a stern man in a dark suit yelling from a pulpit 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:12.319 never could. It's bitter theater for the church 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.939 crowd. It's fun. It's fun. It's accessible. And 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:17.819 this puppet act actually gets them their big 00:06:17.819 --> 00:06:21.269 break. Okay, so where do they go? In 1966, they 00:06:21.269 --> 00:06:23.910 joined Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting 00:06:23.910 --> 00:06:26.790 Network, CBN. Now, you have to understand the 00:06:26.790 --> 00:06:30.350 scale here. Today, CBN is this massive global 00:06:30.350 --> 00:06:34.430 entity. In 1966, the sources say they had an 00:06:34.430 --> 00:06:37.790 audience in the low thousands. So basically public 00:06:37.790 --> 00:06:40.490 access television level. Pretty much. And Jim 00:06:40.490 --> 00:06:43.290 and Tammy Faye hosted a children's variety show. 00:06:43.389 --> 00:06:45.769 It was called Come On Over. And it was a hit. 00:06:45.810 --> 00:06:48.009 It was funny. It was engaging. And it used the 00:06:48.009 --> 00:06:50.480 medium of television. In a way, religious broadcasting 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.279 just hadn't really done before. It wasn't just 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:54.779 a camera pointed at a pulpit. So they were pioneers 00:06:54.779 --> 00:06:56.600 of the format. They were figuring out how to 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:59.139 translate the experience of church into the language 00:06:59.139 --> 00:07:01.800 of television. Absolutely. They understood that 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.579 TV is a cool medium. It's intimate. You're in 00:07:04.579 --> 00:07:06.860 someone's living room. You can't just shout. 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:09.139 You have to connect. And it works so well that 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:11.399 it gets Baker promoted. Right. It does. In fact, 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:13.699 because the puppet show was so successful, Pat 00:07:13.699 --> 00:07:16.240 Robertson actually made Baker the host of a new 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:18.079 primetime talk show. Maybe you've heard of it. 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:21.540 The 700 Club. Wait, really? Jim Baker was the 00:07:21.540 --> 00:07:24.589 original host of The 700 Club. Always, always 00:07:24.589 --> 00:07:26.910 associate that with Pat Robertson. Baker helped 00:07:26.910 --> 00:07:29.689 build it into CBN's flagship program. He was 00:07:29.689 --> 00:07:32.269 the architect of the format, the couch, the chatty 00:07:32.269 --> 00:07:34.889 style, the celebrity guests, the whole Christian 00:07:34.889 --> 00:07:38.209 Tonight Show vibe. Wow. He realized that if you 00:07:38.209 --> 00:07:39.970 want to be in people's living rooms every single 00:07:39.970 --> 00:07:41.470 night, you can't just preach at them. You have 00:07:41.470 --> 00:07:43.870 to hang out with them. That is a crucial distinction. 00:07:44.069 --> 00:07:47.470 It shifts the relationship from authority congregant 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:51.189 to like a friend. The parasocial relationship. 00:07:51.269 --> 00:07:53.589 Exactly. And that parasocial relationship is 00:07:53.589 --> 00:07:56.970 what monetizes so, so well later on. But Baker 00:07:56.970 --> 00:07:59.529 doesn't stay at CBN. He seems to be a builder, 00:07:59.629 --> 00:08:03.279 but he's also restless. In 1973, he and Tammy 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.759 Faye leave. Where to next? They move to California. 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.319 And they partner with Paul and Jan Crouch to 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:11.160 co -found the Trinity Broadcasting Network, TBN. 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:13.899 Which is the other giant in the industry. He's 00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:16.439 like the Forrest Gump of Christian TV. He's there 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:18.860 for the founding of everything important. He 00:08:18.860 --> 00:08:21.459 is. He builds the Coca -Cola and the Pepsi of 00:08:21.459 --> 00:08:23.920 televangelism back to back. It's an incredible 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.050 run. So why didn't that stick? The TBN partnership 00:08:27.050 --> 00:08:29.089 was really short -lived. It only lasted about 00:08:29.089 --> 00:08:31.829 eight months. The sources just describe a falling 00:08:31.829 --> 00:08:34.450 out between Jim and Paul Crouch. There were clearly 00:08:34.450 --> 00:08:37.190 some personality clashes there. So Jim and Tammy 00:08:37.190 --> 00:08:39.909 Faye pack up again. They move to Charlotte, North 00:08:39.909 --> 00:08:44.090 Carolina. And in 1974, they decide, we're done 00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:45.789 building networks for other people. We're going 00:08:45.789 --> 00:08:49.210 to build our own. And PTL was born. PTL, praise 00:08:49.210 --> 00:08:52.330 the Lord. They launched the PTL Club in its late 00:08:52.330 --> 00:08:55.759 -night talk show format in 1975. And they founded 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.480 the PTL Satellite Network. They were buying time, 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:00.679 airing programs through local affiliates all 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:03.059 across the U .S. And this is where the ambition 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:05.700 just really starts to scale up because they didn't 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:07.820 just stay in the studio this time. They started 00:09:07.820 --> 00:09:11.279 building a physical kingdom. Heritage USA. This 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:13.899 is absolutely crucial to understanding the Baker 00:09:13.899 --> 00:09:16.559 phenomenon. They weren't just a TV show anymore. 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.539 They bought a huge tract of land in Fort Mill, 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:21.620 South Carolina, right on the border with North 00:09:21.620 --> 00:09:23.799 Carolina. And they built a headquarters called 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:26.779 Heritage Village. But it just kept expanding 00:09:26.779 --> 00:09:29.980 and expanded into a massive, sprawling theme 00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:32.539 park and resort. I looked up some photos of this 00:09:32.539 --> 00:09:34.220 place from back in the day. I mean, it looks 00:09:34.220 --> 00:09:37.320 incredible. There's a replica of the upper room 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.470 in Jerusalem, huge hotels, the water park. It 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:43.929 wasn't just a church camp. It was a genuine destination 00:09:43.929 --> 00:09:46.610 resort. It was the third most successful theme 00:09:46.610 --> 00:09:49.149 park in the U .S. at the time. As we said, only 00:09:49.149 --> 00:09:51.049 Disney World and Disneyland had more visitors. 00:09:51.789 --> 00:09:54.629 And the money. The money coming in was just astronomical. 00:09:54.929 --> 00:09:56.629 How much are we talking, really? By the peak, 00:09:56.750 --> 00:09:58.730 viewer contributions were estimated to exceed 00:09:58.730 --> 00:10:03.570 $1 million a week. A million a week. In the late 00:10:03.570 --> 00:10:06.659 70s and early 80s dollars. Yes. That is purchasing 00:10:06.659 --> 00:10:09.000 power. That is hard to even wrap your head around. 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:11.600 It's not just ministry money. That's empire money. 00:10:11.950 --> 00:10:14.330 It is. And this brings us to the theology that 00:10:14.330 --> 00:10:17.370 drove it all. At this time, Baker was one of 00:10:17.370 --> 00:10:21.149 the most visible, most devout proponents of prosperity 00:10:21.149 --> 00:10:23.250 theology. Okay, let's define that for the listeners. 00:10:23.389 --> 00:10:25.809 What is prosperity theology exactly? Because 00:10:25.809 --> 00:10:28.929 it sounds like a very specific American invention. 00:10:29.210 --> 00:10:32.230 It absolutely is. At its core, it's the belief 00:10:32.230 --> 00:10:34.889 that financial blessing and physical well -being 00:10:34.889 --> 00:10:38.450 are the will of God for Christians and that faith... 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:41.360 positive speech, and donations to religious causes 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:44.340 will increase one's own material wealth. So if 00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:45.919 you're a good Christian and you give money to 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.320 the church, God will make you rich. In a nutshell, 00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:51.399 yes. Baker was very explicit about this. He wasn't 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:54.500 subtle. In his 1980 book, Eight Keys to Success, 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:57.519 he wrote, quote, God wants you to be happy. God 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.379 wants you to be rich. God wants you to prosper. 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:01.539 He wasn't hiding it. He wasn't saying be rich 00:11:01.539 --> 00:11:04.399 in spirit. He meant cash. He meant real estate. 00:11:04.580 --> 00:11:07.480 He meant cash. He had a famous quote. I believe 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.399 that if Jesus were alive today, he would be on 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.220 TV. He saw mass media and wealth as tools for 00:11:13.220 --> 00:11:15.440 the gospel. But as you can imagine, when you 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.240 have a million dollars a week flowing in through 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:19.320 a nonprofit organization. People start asking 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:21.639 questions. Especially the government. Right. 00:11:21.779 --> 00:11:24.759 There were early warning signs. As early as 1979, 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.700 the FCC, Federal Communications Commission, started 00:11:28.700 --> 00:11:31.320 an investigation into PTL. They were looking 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:33.679 into allegations that funds raised on air were 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:36.279 being misused. Misused how? Like, was it just 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.879 lavish spending or something more specific? It 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.990 was very specific. The FCC report, which was 00:11:41.990 --> 00:11:45.269 finalized in 1982, found that Baker had gone 00:11:45.269 --> 00:11:49.070 on air and raised $350 ,000 telling viewers it 00:11:49.070 --> 00:11:51.429 would go to overseas missions. Okay, to help 00:11:51.429 --> 00:11:53.750 people in other countries. Right. But instead, 00:11:53.970 --> 00:11:56.269 that money was used to pay for part of Heritage 00:11:56.269 --> 00:11:59.389 USA. So it was give money for starving children, 00:11:59.529 --> 00:12:02.269 but actually it was we're buying concrete for 00:12:02.269 --> 00:12:04.769 the water slide. Essentially, yes. The report 00:12:04.769 --> 00:12:07.230 also found that the Bakers were using PTL funds 00:12:07.230 --> 00:12:10.549 for personal expenses. But... And here's a fascinating 00:12:10.549 --> 00:12:13.970 legal and political twist. The FCC commissioners 00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:16.570 voted four to three to drop the investigation. 00:12:16.929 --> 00:12:19.149 They dropped it. After finding all that, why 00:12:19.149 --> 00:12:21.429 did they not have enough evidence? It was a very 00:12:21.429 --> 00:12:23.710 clever move on Baker's part. They allowed him 00:12:23.710 --> 00:12:26.590 to sell the only TV station he personally owned, 00:12:26.710 --> 00:12:29.830 a station in Ohio. By doing that, he was no longer 00:12:29.830 --> 00:12:32.009 technically a broadcaster in the eyes of the 00:12:32.009 --> 00:12:34.149 FCC. He was just a content producer? He was just 00:12:34.149 --> 00:12:36.350 a content producer buying time on other people's 00:12:36.350 --> 00:12:38.169 stations, so he just... Stepped out of their 00:12:38.169 --> 00:12:40.649 jurisdiction. That is some 4D chess right there. 00:12:40.690 --> 00:12:43.289 That is a sleek move. And he spun it masterfully. 00:12:43.490 --> 00:12:46.289 He went on air, called the investigation a witch 00:12:46.289 --> 00:12:49.990 hunt by secular forces and asked viewers to give 00:12:49.990 --> 00:12:53.070 the devil a black eye by donating even more money. 00:12:53.190 --> 00:12:56.090 And they did. Unbelievable. The Department of 00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:58.509 Justice also declined to prosecute, citing insufficient 00:12:58.509 --> 00:13:01.409 evidence. He must have felt completely untouchable. 00:13:01.509 --> 00:13:04.759 But. The IRS isn't as easy to shake as the SEC, 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:07.799 right? Their jurisdiction is just money. No, 00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:11.500 they're not. In 1985, a confidential IRS report 00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:14.259 was completed. It found that between 1980 and 00:13:14.259 --> 00:13:18.860 1983, $1 .3 million in ministry funds had been 00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:21.159 used for the baker's personal benefit. A million 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.379 three. For personal stuff, what are we talking 00:13:23.379 --> 00:13:26.269 about? Fur coats, cars, houses. All of it. The 00:13:26.269 --> 00:13:29.809 lifestyle was famously lavish. Gold -plated bathroom 00:13:29.809 --> 00:13:33.230 fixtures, Rolls Royces, multiple homes, even 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:36.710 an air -conditioned doghouse. The works. An air 00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:39.730 -conditioned doghouse? Yes. And the IRS report 00:13:39.730 --> 00:13:42.429 recommended stripping PTL of its tax -exempt 00:13:42.429 --> 00:13:45.889 status. So why didn't it happen right then? Well... 00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:48.730 No action was taken immediately. And there's 00:13:48.730 --> 00:13:50.529 a note in the source material from The Washington 00:13:50.529 --> 00:13:53.049 Post which speculates that politics might have 00:13:53.049 --> 00:13:55.110 played a role. It was the Reagan administration 00:13:55.110 --> 00:13:57.889 and they weren't exactly eager to go after high 00:13:57.889 --> 00:14:00.269 profile televangelists. Their followers were 00:14:00.269 --> 00:14:02.129 a huge part of the new conservative political 00:14:02.129 --> 00:14:04.629 base. A key part of the coalition. So the IRS 00:14:04.629 --> 00:14:07.600 report just sort of sat there. So he's got the 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:09.980 money. He's got the political cover. He's got 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:11.980 the third most popular theme park in America. 00:14:12.220 --> 00:14:15.200 He feels completely untouchable. But usually 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:17.879 in these stories, when you feel untouchable is 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:19.840 exactly when you make the fatal mistake. And 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:22.019 the mistake involved the three things that always, 00:14:22.139 --> 00:14:26.600 always bring down empires. Sex, money and a cover 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:28.519 up. Let's talk about the Jessica Hahn scandal. 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:30.809 This was the pin that popped the balloon. And 00:14:30.809 --> 00:14:32.350 it's important to walk through what actually 00:14:32.350 --> 00:14:34.389 happened, according to the records, because the 00:14:34.389 --> 00:14:36.549 event itself happened years before it became 00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:38.970 public. Okay. The incident itself took place 00:14:38.970 --> 00:14:41.970 in 1980 in a hotel room in Clearwater, Florida. 00:14:42.870 --> 00:14:45.250 Baker acknowledged having a sexual encounter 00:14:45.250 --> 00:14:48.149 with a church secretary named Jessica Hahn. And 00:14:48.149 --> 00:14:51.929 the details here are heavily disputed, right? 00:14:52.009 --> 00:14:54.940 Very much so. Baker denied it was rape. claiming 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.460 it was consensual. Hahn, on the other hand, alleged 00:14:57.460 --> 00:15:00.159 that she was drugged and raped by Baker and another 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.279 man, a former PTL Club co -host named John Wesley 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.500 Fletcher. Right. But from a legal and organizational 00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:08.120 standpoint, the crime isn't necessarily the sex. 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:10.860 It's the money used to hide the sex. It's always 00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:15.639 the cover up. Exactly. A payoff of $279 ,000 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.879 was made to Hahn to buy her silence. That is 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.730 a very specific number. It is. And crucially, 00:15:22.789 --> 00:15:25.090 where did that money come from? It came from 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:27.350 PTL funds. It was funneled through an associate, 00:15:27.610 --> 00:15:29.950 a contractor named Roe Messner, to hide the trail. 00:15:30.129 --> 00:15:32.149 So, donor money people's retirement savings, 00:15:32.470 --> 00:15:35.389 widow's mites, was used as hush money for a sexual 00:15:35.389 --> 00:15:37.470 encounter. That is exactly what the investigation 00:15:37.470 --> 00:15:40.529 found. And at the same time, Baker was also facing 00:15:40.529 --> 00:15:42.690 allegations of maintaining two sets of books 00:15:42.690 --> 00:15:45.730 to conceal these kinds of accounting irregularities. 00:15:46.250 --> 00:15:48.649 When the Charlotte Observer, which had been doing 00:15:48.649 --> 00:15:50.970 incredible investigative work on this for years, 00:15:51.029 --> 00:15:53.750 led by a reporter named Charles Shepard, started 00:15:53.750 --> 00:15:56.330 getting close to breaking the Hans story, the 00:15:56.330 --> 00:15:58.529 pressure just became too much. The walls were 00:15:58.529 --> 00:16:02.309 closing in. They were. On March 19th, 1987, Jim 00:16:02.309 --> 00:16:05.029 Baker resigned from PTL. But he didn't just walk 00:16:05.029 --> 00:16:07.210 away, did he? He tried to hand the keys to someone 00:16:07.210 --> 00:16:09.570 he thought he could trust. And this is where 00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:11.889 the story just turns into a Shakespearean tragedy. 00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:14.669 Or maybe a daytime soap opera. It really does. 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:16.690 It becomes this incredible power struggle. Baker 00:16:16.690 --> 00:16:18.629 was terrified. He wasn't just worried about the 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:20.950 press. He was worried about a hostile takeover 00:16:20.950 --> 00:16:23.309 from a rival televangelist. Who was he worried 00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:26.529 about? Jimmy Swaggart. Jimmy Swaggart. The great 00:16:26.529 --> 00:16:30.049 balls of fire. Cousin of Jerry Lee Lewis. The 00:16:30.049 --> 00:16:33.610 very same. A huge star in his own right. Swagger 00:16:33.610 --> 00:16:36.649 had initiated an internal Assemblies of God investigation 00:16:36.649 --> 00:16:40.269 into Baker's misconduct. Baker was convinced 00:16:40.269 --> 00:16:43.529 Swagger wanted to seize the PTL empire for himself. 00:16:43.830 --> 00:16:46.490 A corporate raid, but with ministries. Exactly. 00:16:46.730 --> 00:16:49.769 So in a panic, Baker appointed Jerry Falwell 00:16:49.769 --> 00:16:52.750 as his successor. Jerry Falwell, the founder 00:16:52.750 --> 00:16:56.190 of the moral majority, another titan of the religious 00:16:56.190 --> 00:16:59.470 right. Baker thought Falwell would be a caretaker. 00:16:59.549 --> 00:17:02.049 That was the word he used. He thought, OK, I'll 00:17:02.049 --> 00:17:04.210 step aside for a bit, let the heat die down, 00:17:04.309 --> 00:17:06.549 and my friend Jerry will hold the fort and then 00:17:06.549 --> 00:17:09.369 give the ministry back to me. And did Jerry give 00:17:09.369 --> 00:17:12.289 it back? Not even close. Falwell took over, looked 00:17:12.289 --> 00:17:14.450 at the books, saw the depth of the scandal. And 00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:17.269 in April 1987, he publicly barred Baker from 00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:19.549 ever returning to PTL. He locked the doors and 00:17:19.549 --> 00:17:21.450 changed the locks. He locked the doors and then 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:23.289 went on national television and threw away the 00:17:23.289 --> 00:17:26.470 key. Falwell called Baker a liar, an embezzler 00:17:26.470 --> 00:17:29.349 and a sexual deviant. He even said, and this 00:17:29.349 --> 00:17:31.410 is a direct quote, that Baker was the greatest 00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:34.049 scab and cancer on the face of Christianity in 00:17:34.049 --> 00:17:38.130 2000 years of church history. Wow. 2 ,000 years. 00:17:38.529 --> 00:17:41.710 That is not professional courtesy. That is a 00:17:41.710 --> 00:17:44.210 scorched earth policy. It was an all -out war. 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.019 Falwell tried to save the park. He even famously 00:17:47.019 --> 00:17:49.380 went down a water slide in a full suit and tie 00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:51.339 to try and raise money. I remember seeing that 00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:53.480 footage. But the debt and the scandal were just 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.900 too deep. Donations plummeted. Falwell and the 00:17:56.900 --> 00:18:01.000 new board resigned in October 1987. PTL was bankrupt. 00:18:01.299 --> 00:18:04.440 The empire was gone. And just to put a final 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.359 ironic button on this whole saga. Yeah. What 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:09.740 happened to Jimmy Swigert? The guy who started 00:18:09.740 --> 00:18:12.799 the whole thing by calling Baker a cancer in 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:15.859 the body of Christ. In February 1988, less than 00:18:15.859 --> 00:18:18.140 a year later, Jimmy Swaggart was caught in his 00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:20.480 own sex scandal involving visiting prostitutes 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.440 in New Orleans, leading to his own tearful televised 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.500 confession. You literally cannot make this stuff 00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:27.559 up. It's like the writer's room for reality was 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.079 just working overtime in the late 80s. It completely 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.640 shattered public trust in televangelism for a 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.480 generation. But for Baker, the humiliation was 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:37.960 just the beginning. Because now with the ministry 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:39.680 ban— bankrupt, and his reputation destroyed, 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.380 the federal government was finally ready to move. 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:45.240 Right, because the hush money was bad. But the 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.460 real crime, the thing that sends you to prison 00:18:48.460 --> 00:18:52.119 for decades, was the business model itself. Yes, 00:18:52.299 --> 00:18:55.299 the lifetime partnerships. Okay, explain this 00:18:55.299 --> 00:18:57.559 scheme, because it was the core of the criminal 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.180 case, but it sounds kind of complicated. It sounds 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:02.980 complicated, but the math is actually quite simple 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:06.869 and devastating. Between 1984 and 1987, as the 00:19:06.869 --> 00:19:09.529 financial pressure on PTL was mounting, Baker 00:19:09.529 --> 00:19:12.170 started aggressively selling these partnerships. 00:19:12.650 --> 00:19:16.269 They cost $1 ,000 each. And what did you get 00:19:16.269 --> 00:19:17.710 for your thousand bucks? What was the promise? 00:19:17.950 --> 00:19:19.910 The promise was that if you bought one, you and 00:19:19.910 --> 00:19:21.769 your family were entitled to an annual three 00:19:21.769 --> 00:19:25.029 -night stay for life at a luxury hotel at Heritage 00:19:25.029 --> 00:19:27.589 USA. Which sounds a lot like a timeshare, basically. 00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.880 It is, in theory, a religious timeshare. But 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.039 here's the fraud. They sold tens of thousands 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.500 of these memberships, but they only ever finished 00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:38.420 building one 500 -room hotel at the Heritage 00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:41.039 Grand. Oh, I see where this is going. So if everyone 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.319 shows up for their three nights... There is nowhere 00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:46.220 to put them. The prosecution at the trial proved 00:19:46.220 --> 00:19:49.279 that the partnerships sold far, far exceeded 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:51.599 the capacity. They had sold enough partnerships 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.960 to fill the hotel for something like 30 years 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.200 straight if everyone tried to book their stay. 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.099 Wow. And worse, the money wasn't even being used 00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.740 for construction. More than twice the amount 00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:04.160 needed to build the promised hotels was raised. 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:06.380 So where did the money go? Instead of building 00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:09.000 more capacity, much of that money went to cover 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.059 the massive operating expenses for the theme 00:20:11.059 --> 00:20:14.119 park. And according to the indictment, Baker 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.539 kept at least $3 .4 million in bonuses for himself. 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:20.619 So he was selling a product he knew for a fact 00:20:20.619 --> 00:20:22.819 he could not deliver. That's the legal definition 00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:26.410 of mail and wire fraud. It was, in effect, a 00:20:26.410 --> 00:20:29.430 Ponzi scheme structure, using new money to pay 00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:33.049 for old promises. In 1988, a federal grand jury 00:20:33.049 --> 00:20:35.029 indicted him. What were the charges exactly? 00:20:35.410 --> 00:20:37.529 Eight counts of mail fraud, 15 counts of wire 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.009 fraud, and one count of conspiracy. And the trial 00:20:40.009 --> 00:20:43.950 happens in 1989. And the verdict. Guilty on... 00:20:44.170 --> 00:20:46.490 All 24 counts. And the sentence. I remember reading 00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:48.849 this back then and just gasping. Judge Robert 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.150 Daniel Potter, a judge with the nickname Maximum 00:20:52.150 --> 00:20:56.150 Bob, sentenced Jim Backer to 45 years in federal 00:20:56.150 --> 00:21:01.630 prison and a $500 ,000 fine. 45 years. That is 00:21:01.630 --> 00:21:04.430 a life sentence, essentially, for a man his age. 00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:07.190 It was a massive, massive sentence. And the judge 00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:10.380 made his personal feelings very clear. At the 00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:13.460 sentencing, he said, quote, those of us who do 00:21:13.460 --> 00:21:15.940 have a religion are sick of being saps for money 00:21:15.940 --> 00:21:19.500 -grubbing creatures and priests. Whoa. That sounds 00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:22.559 really personal for a judge. It did sound personal. 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:24.960 And that comment, that specific quote, actually 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.880 became crucial later on. Baker's lawyers appealed 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:30.089 the sentence. On what grounds? On the grounds 00:21:30.089 --> 00:21:32.589 that the judge's own remarks injected his personal 00:21:32.589 --> 00:21:34.670 religious bias into the sentencing, which is 00:21:34.670 --> 00:21:37.549 a big no -no. And the appeals court agreed. They 00:21:37.549 --> 00:21:39.690 eventually voided the 45 -year sentence. So he 00:21:39.690 --> 00:21:41.450 got a do -over on the sentencing part of it. 00:21:41.509 --> 00:21:44.029 He did. In 1992, he was re -sentenced to just 00:21:44.029 --> 00:21:46.490 eight years. But before that, he spent time in 00:21:46.490 --> 00:21:48.369 the Federal Medical Center in Rochester, Minnesota. 00:21:48.670 --> 00:21:50.769 And this is where we get that odd couple sitcom 00:21:50.769 --> 00:21:53.829 scenario we mentioned in the intro. His cellmate 00:21:53.829 --> 00:21:57.170 for a time was Lyndon LaRouche. The conspiracy 00:21:57.170 --> 00:22:00.079 theorist, political activist. The guy who ran 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.640 for president like eight times, including once 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.460 from prison. The very same. And according to 00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:07.640 some accounts, another cellmate for a while was 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.259 a champion skydiver named Roger Nelson. Imagine 00:22:11.259 --> 00:22:14.059 the conversations in that cell. I would pay good 00:22:14.059 --> 00:22:16.039 money for a transcript of those conversations. 00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:18.759 The televangelist, the political cult leader, 00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:21.059 and the guy who jumps out of planes for a living. 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.519 It's a surreal image. But prison did something 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:26.619 to Baker, didn't it? Or at least he claimed it 00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:28.400 did. It wasn't just about waiting out the clock. 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:30.779 Right. He had some kind of conversion experience. 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:33.500 According to Baker himself, it was a time of 00:22:33.500 --> 00:22:36.680 complete theological deconstruction. He wrote 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.359 a book in 1996 called I Was Wrong. And in it, 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:42.259 he admitted something just stunning for a man 00:22:42.259 --> 00:22:44.680 who had been on TV for decades. He said that 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:46.920 prior to prison, he had never actually read the 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:48.940 entire Bible all the way through. Wait, what? 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:51.779 The most famous televangelist in the world had 00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:54.200 never read the whole book. Not cover to cover, 00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:56.539 that's what he claimed. He said he had just cherry 00:22:56.539 --> 00:22:58.900 -picked passages, you know, taken verses out 00:22:58.900 --> 00:23:00.960 of context to support his prosperity arguments. 00:23:01.539 --> 00:23:03.839 In prison, he claimed he finally read it properly 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:06.119 and realized he had taken everything out of context. 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.140 He publicly renounced the prosperity gospel that 00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:11.220 made him a millionaire. He said, I was wrong 00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:13.180 to tell you God wants you to be rich. Exactly. 00:23:13.220 --> 00:23:16.519 He seemed to be, on the surface, genuinely repentant. 00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:19.559 He said things like, Jesus didn't teach prosperity. 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.119 He taught sacrifice. He was paroled in July 1994 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:25.660 after serving almost five years of his sentence. 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:27.819 And he comes out to a very, very different life. 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.140 His entire world had evaporated. Tammy Faye had 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:33.200 divorced him while he was in prison in 1992. 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.119 He owed the IRS $6 million. He was essentially 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:40.359 starting from zero. He was a pariah in the mainstream 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:43.279 church world. But Jim Backer is nothing if not 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:45.599 a survivor. He doesn't stay at zero for long. 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.099 No, he doesn't. In 1998, he remarries a woman 00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:51.779 named Lori Beth Graham, a former televangelist 00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:55.319 herself. And get this. They met and married within 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:59.200 50 days. He always moves fast. He does. And slowly 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.660 he starts to claw his way back onto the airwaves. 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:04.900 This is the phoenix rising from the ashes moment. 00:24:05.140 --> 00:24:08.099 But the phoenix looks very, very different this 00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:11.160 time. Very different. In 2003, he starts broadcasting 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.900 again, this time from a place called the Studio 00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:17.500 City Cafe in Branson, Missouri. Then he moves 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:20.059 to a small town called Blue Eye, Missouri, to 00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:22.950 build a new compound. a new community. It's called 00:24:22.950 --> 00:24:26.130 Morningside. Morningside. It sounds peaceful, 00:24:26.349 --> 00:24:28.950 idyllic. It's a whole new ministry, but the funding 00:24:28.950 --> 00:24:31.750 came from a really interesting source. A Buddhist 00:24:31.750 --> 00:24:34.549 man named Jerry Crawford, who credited Baker 00:24:34.549 --> 00:24:37.150 with saving his marriage years before, invested 00:24:37.150 --> 00:24:40.509 $25 million to get the new ministry off the ground. 00:24:40.750 --> 00:24:43.690 Wow. That is a loyal fan. $25 million allows 00:24:43.690 --> 00:24:45.549 you to do a lot of building. It certainly does. 00:24:45.690 --> 00:24:47.769 And this is where we see the second great theological 00:24:47.769 --> 00:24:50.470 invention of Jim Bakker. He moves from the theology 00:24:50.470 --> 00:24:53.450 of success to the theology of survival. Right. 00:24:53.529 --> 00:24:56.410 If the 80s were all about get rich, the post 00:24:56.410 --> 00:24:59.210 -911 world is all about don't die. That's it 00:24:59.210 --> 00:25:02.509 exactly. He embraced apocalypticism. He condemned 00:25:02.509 --> 00:25:05.509 his old prosperity teachings as heresy, but he 00:25:05.509 --> 00:25:08.049 replaced them with a focus entirely on the end 00:25:08.049 --> 00:25:10.650 times. And the product line changed to match 00:25:10.650 --> 00:25:14.029 the new theology. No more timeshares. No. Instead 00:25:14.029 --> 00:25:17.089 of lifetime stays at a luxury hotel, he started 00:25:17.089 --> 00:25:19.630 selling giant buckets of freeze -dried food. 00:25:19.730 --> 00:25:22.009 The famous buckets. I've seen the clips online. 00:25:22.309 --> 00:25:25.430 The tasty pantry buckets. Deans on toast, survival 00:25:25.430 --> 00:25:28.309 gear, water filters, solar -powered generators. 00:25:28.769 --> 00:25:31.049 He wasn't selling luxury anymore. He was selling 00:25:31.049 --> 00:25:34.119 fear. Or, as he would frame it, preparation for 00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:36.299 the inevitable collapse. And he started making 00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:38.660 some very specific claims, didn't he? He wasn't 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:40.500 just a host anymore, he became a prophet. He 00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:43.480 literally rebranded PTL. He went on air and said 00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:45.799 it now stands for Prophets Talking Loud. That 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:49.089 is... Certainly a choice of very bold rebranding. 00:25:49.109 --> 00:25:51.170 And he started claiming retroactive prophetic 00:25:51.170 --> 00:25:54.109 abilities. He claimed on his new show that he 00:25:54.109 --> 00:25:58.430 saw 9 -11 in 1999. He said he saw terrorism coming 00:25:58.430 --> 00:26:00.930 to NYC and D .C. It's very easy to predict things 00:26:00.930 --> 00:26:03.069 after they've already happened. It is. But he 00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:06.230 kept making new predictions. He compared a 2017 00:26:06.230 --> 00:26:09.509 Washington train derailment to the Titanic, calling 00:26:09.509 --> 00:26:12.210 it a warning from God. But the one that always 00:26:12.210 --> 00:26:14.769 sticks out to me is what he said after the Stoneman 00:26:14.769 --> 00:26:17.329 Douglas school shooting. He claimed God appeared 00:26:17.329 --> 00:26:19.670 to him in a dream. OK, and this is the one that 00:26:19.670 --> 00:26:21.950 really sticks in my mind, too. Describe what 00:26:21.950 --> 00:26:24.410 God looked like in this dream, according to Baker. 00:26:24.609 --> 00:26:27.710 According to Jim Baker, God was wearing camouflage. 00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:31.359 Camel. Head to toe camouflage. And he had an 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:34.640 AR -15 rifle strapped to his back. God was packing 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.599 heat. That was the vision. And Baker used this 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.539 dream to support the political idea of arming 00:26:40.539 --> 00:26:43.559 teachers and schools. He also dove deep into 00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:45.940 partisan politics, predicting a second American 00:26:45.940 --> 00:26:48.599 Civil War if Donald Trump was impeached. So he 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.200 fully pivoted to the cultural and political anxieties 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.259 of the late 2010s. The polarization, the fear 00:26:54.259 --> 00:26:56.839 of violence, the culture wars. He did. He even 00:26:56.839 --> 00:26:59.059 went so far as to blame. natural disasters on 00:26:59.059 --> 00:27:01.619 political figures. He claimed Hurricane Matthew 00:27:01.619 --> 00:27:03.940 as God's punishment because of President Obama's 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:06.759 policies. He called Hurricane Harvey a judgment 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:10.299 of God and stated on air that God would punish 00:27:10.299 --> 00:27:13.140 those who ridicule him. It's a heavy, heavy pivot. 00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:15.579 But it worked, didn't it? He built an audience 00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:18.500 again. He did. Morningside became a functioning 00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:21.539 community and a media hub. He found a new flock, 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.960 people who were scared, people who felt the world 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.119 was spinning out of control and wanted answers. 00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:30.220 But then 2020 happened and the theology of survival 00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:33.319 collided head on with a real world pandemic. 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:35.619 And this is where the silver solution enters 00:27:35.619 --> 00:27:39.180 the chat. Colloidal silver supplements. Baker 00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:41.019 had been selling these for a while, advertising 00:27:41.019 --> 00:27:44.259 them as sort of cure all a panacea. But when 00:27:44.259 --> 00:27:47.700 COVID -19 hit, the claims got very, very specific. 00:27:47.859 --> 00:27:51.240 What was he claiming? On his show, he had a guest, 00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:53.519 a so -called naturopathic doctor, and during 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:55.380 their conversation, it was allegedly claimed, 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:58.039 or at least heavily implied, that the silver 00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:00.519 solution could cure or treat the coronavirus 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.279 strains. Which, to be absolutely clear for everyone 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:05.019 listening, is not true. There is no scientific 00:28:05.019 --> 00:28:07.400 evidence for that. It is scientifically unfounded 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.740 and frankly dangerous because it might discourage 00:28:09.740 --> 00:28:12.720 people from seeking real, effective medical help. 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.079 And this time, the government came down hard, 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.759 much harder and faster than they did in the 80s. 00:28:18.349 --> 00:28:20.799 after him everybody The New York attorney general 00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.059 issued a cease and desist order for the false 00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:26.359 claims. The FDA and the FTC sent warning letters. 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:28.640 The attorneys general of Missouri and Arkansas 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:31.279 both filed lawsuits against him. It's like a 00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:33.599 greatest hits of legal and regulatory trouble. 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.200 The government was not playing around with COVID 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.880 misinformation. And the financial impact was 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:40.880 immediate and severe. Credit card processors 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.180 cut him off. Visa, MasterCard, American Express, 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.099 they all prohibited him from processing transactions. 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.740 So he couldn't sell his products? He couldn't 00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:51.839 sell anything online. He had to go on air and 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:54.200 plead for donations, saying they could only accept 00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.920 paper checks through the mail just to avoid bankruptcy. 00:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.519 He was deplatformed too, right? In the broadcast 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:03.200 sense. Yeah. AT &T, which owned DirecTV, asked 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:05.240 the channels that carried his show to reconsider 00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:08.640 airing it. Networks like GEB America dropped 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.119 him. It was a massive contraction of his reach 00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:14.079 and his revenue. And amidst all this legal stress, 00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:17.140 his health took a major hit. In May of 2020, 00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:20.579 Jim Backer suffered a stroke. His son Jay went 00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:23.480 on the show and called it a minor stroke. But 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:25.859 his wife Lori blamed it directly on the vicious 00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:28.339 attack of criticism he was facing from the media 00:29:28.339 --> 00:29:30.740 and the government. So once again, the narrative 00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:33.940 is the world is attacking us. It's never we made 00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:36.339 a mistake. It's we are being persecuted for our 00:29:36.339 --> 00:29:38.920 faith. Always. That narrative is the glue that 00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:41.240 holds his following together through every scandal. 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.890 But he had to settle. In 2021, he settled the 00:29:44.890 --> 00:29:47.289 Missouri lawsuit. What were the terms? The terms 00:29:47.289 --> 00:29:49.970 were strict. He is permanently prohibited from 00:29:49.970 --> 00:29:52.470 saying his silver solution could diagnose, treat, 00:29:52.670 --> 00:29:55.990 or cure any disease. And he had to pay restitution 00:29:55.990 --> 00:30:00.329 $157 ,000 to customers who bought the solution 00:30:00.329 --> 00:30:03.829 during the early months of 2020. $157 ,000. I 00:30:03.829 --> 00:30:05.329 mean, it's a lot of money to you and me, but 00:30:05.329 --> 00:30:08.029 compared to the PTL days in the millions? It's 00:30:08.029 --> 00:30:10.349 a drop in the bucket, pun fully intended. So 00:30:10.349 --> 00:30:12.190 here we are today. He's back on the air, right? 00:30:12.589 --> 00:30:15.230 He returned to the show in July 2020, just a 00:30:15.230 --> 00:30:16.990 couple of months after the stroke. He's still 00:30:16.990 --> 00:30:19.609 there, still broadcasting from Morningside, still 00:30:19.609 --> 00:30:21.910 warning about the end of the world, and still 00:30:21.910 --> 00:30:23.710 selling the supplies you'll need to survive it. 00:30:23.869 --> 00:30:25.829 So what does this all mean when you look at the 00:30:25.829 --> 00:30:29.690 whole timeline, 1960s puppet pioneer, 70s empire 00:30:29.690 --> 00:30:33.309 builder, 80s prosperity icon, 90s federal prisoner, 00:30:33.470 --> 00:30:37.349 2000s survivalist guru? What are we actually 00:30:37.349 --> 00:30:39.710 looking at here? You know, it's so tempting to 00:30:39.710 --> 00:30:42.339 just dismiss him as a simple grifter. And the 00:30:42.339 --> 00:30:44.400 fraud conviction speaks for itself on that front. 00:30:44.660 --> 00:30:47.279 But I think looking at the full arc of Jim Backer's 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.420 career is like looking in a strange mirror of 00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:51.700 American anxiety. How so? What do you mean by 00:30:51.700 --> 00:30:54.339 that? Think about the products. In the 1980s, 00:30:54.339 --> 00:30:56.500 what did people want? They were coming out of 00:30:56.500 --> 00:30:58.619 the economic malaise of the 70s. They wanted 00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:00.740 glitz. They wanted success. They wanted to believe 00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:02.579 that being a good person meant you could also 00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:06.299 be a rich person. And Baker gave them Heritage 00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:09.559 USA. He gave them a gold -plated gospel for a 00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:11.619 gilded age. He sold them the dream they already 00:31:11.619 --> 00:31:15.549 had. Exactly. And then... The world got scarier. 00:31:15.630 --> 00:31:18.410 We had 9 -11. We had the 2008 financial crash. 00:31:18.549 --> 00:31:20.829 We had a pandemic. We have intense political 00:31:20.829 --> 00:31:23.609 division. People stopped dreaming of luxury hotels 00:31:23.609 --> 00:31:25.529 and started having nightmares about societal 00:31:25.529 --> 00:31:28.049 collapse. And what did Baker give them then? 00:31:28.190 --> 00:31:31.049 He gave them buckets of food and a cabin in the 00:31:31.049 --> 00:31:33.509 Ozarks to hide in. He didn't just change his 00:31:33.509 --> 00:31:36.269 theology. He adapted his product to the prevailing 00:31:36.269 --> 00:31:39.049 fear of the new era. He's not shaping the culture. 00:31:43.849 --> 00:31:46.210 He is the ultimate salesman because he knows 00:31:46.210 --> 00:31:48.650 exactly what his audience is afraid of or what 00:31:48.650 --> 00:31:51.029 they secretly desire at any given moment in American 00:31:51.029 --> 00:31:54.589 history. That is deeply unsettling. Yeah. But 00:31:54.589 --> 00:31:56.690 also fascinating. It suggests that. If you want 00:31:56.690 --> 00:31:58.329 to know where the anxieties of a certain segment 00:31:58.329 --> 00:32:00.549 of America are at, you just have to look at what 00:32:00.549 --> 00:32:02.230 Jim Backer is selling this week. Which brings 00:32:02.230 --> 00:32:04.130 us to the final thought, I guess. It raises the 00:32:04.130 --> 00:32:06.390 question, does a man like Baker create the market 00:32:06.390 --> 00:32:08.829 for these ideas? Or is he just the most visible, 00:32:08.930 --> 00:32:10.990 most successful symptom of a market that already 00:32:10.990 --> 00:32:14.109 exists? Is he a cause or is he an effect? That 00:32:14.109 --> 00:32:15.450 is a question I think I'm going to be chewing 00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:17.609 on for a long, long time. As well you should. 00:32:17.650 --> 00:32:19.990 It's the central question of his entire career. 00:32:20.309 --> 00:32:23.970 Well, that is our deep dive on Jim Backer. From 00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:26.329 the water slides of Heritage USA to the prison 00:32:26.329 --> 00:32:28.950 cell with Lyndon LaRouche to the freeze -dried 00:32:28.950 --> 00:32:31.849 beans of Morningside, it has been a wild ride. 00:32:32.170 --> 00:32:35.089 It certainly has. A uniquely American story. 00:32:35.430 --> 00:32:37.069 Thanks for listening. We'll catch you on the 00:32:37.069 --> 00:32:38.529 next Deep Dive. Stay curious.