WEBVTT

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I want you to close your eyes for a second. Imagine

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you're in a room with someone you trust. Maybe

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it's a partner, a parent, a boss. Someone whose

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opinion matters to you. Deeply. And you clearly,

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with your own eyes, see a coffee cup on the table.

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You point to it. You talk about it. It's right

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there. It's an undeniable fact. And then the

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other person looks you dead in the eye with zero

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irony and says, what coffee cup? There's nothing

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on the table. And they're so calm, so certain.

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So certain that for a split second. Your brain

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just short circuits. You blink. You look again.

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And you start to wonder, not if they're lying,

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but if your own brain is broken. That feeling,

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that is the most destabilizing feeling a human

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being can experience. It's the dismantling of

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the self. That stomach drop sensation of reality

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just slipping away, that's where we are living

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today. And while we hear the word thrown around

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constantly on Twitter, on TikTok. Oh, everywhere.

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The actual mechanism behind it is much darker,

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much older, and much more calculated than most

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people realize. We are, of course, doing the

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deep dive on gaslighting. And I have to admit,

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when I first saw this on our slate, I kind of

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rolled my eyes a little. I think a lot of people

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do. Right. I thought, OK, great. We're going

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to talk about the Internet's favorite buzzword

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for someone I'm mad at. But looking at this stack

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of research you've brought today, this is not

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just about bad breakups, is it? Not even close.

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I mean, if you think gaslighting is just about

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a boyfriend lying about texting his ex, you are

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seeing the absolute tip of the iceberg and completely

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missing the glacier underneath. Wow. OK. We're

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talking about a psychological weapon, a weapon

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that's been used by abusers. Yes, of course.

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But also by doctors, by therapists and by totalitarian

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regimes to paralyze entire populations. That

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is a massive claim, paralyzing populations. We

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will get there. I promise. But we have to start

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with the confusion because you're right. The

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word is everywhere. It's completely unavoidable.

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It feels like, I don't know, since around 2016,

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the usage of the word gaslighting has just gone

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vertical. The data supports that perception entirely.

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It's not just a feeling. If you pull up Google

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Trends, the line is basically flat for years

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and years. And then right around 2016, it starts

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what they call a substantial increase. A substantial

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increase. That's putting it mildly. And then

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by 2022, Merriam -Webster names it the word of

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the year. They reported a. Get this? A 1 ,740

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% increase in lookups. 1 ,700%. That's not a

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trend. That's a cultural obsession. It is. And

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it's not just them. The American Dialect Society

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called it the most useful new word all the way

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back in 2016. Which is such a weird compliment

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for a word describing abuse, isn't it? Useful?

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Yeah. It is weird, but it implies we had a gap

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in our language. It means we were experiencing

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something we literally couldn't name. We didn't

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have the vocabulary. That is the key. We had

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words for lying. We had words for manipulation.

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But we didn't have a mainstream word for manipulating

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someone into questioning their own sanity. So

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the mission for this deep dive is to rescue that

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definition. To rescue it, we need to cut through

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all the buzzword noise and really understand

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the mechanics. Because if we can't distinguish

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between real psychological abuse and just, you

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know, standard disagreement, we're in real trouble.

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Right. Because if I say, I didn't like that movie,

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and you say that movie was a masterpiece... You

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aren't gaslighting me. No. You just have different

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taste. You just have different taste. And confusing

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the two dilutes the suffering of actual victims.

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So to really understand this, we have to go back.

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Way back. We have to leave the Internet age and

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go back to a time of fog and cobblestones and

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shadows. We need to go to 1938. I love this.

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I love that the origin of this, like, ultra -modern

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Internet slang is actually vintage theater. It

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wasn't coined by a psychologist, right? Freud

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didn't come up with this. No, no. Freud had nothing

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to do with it. This comes purely from the arts.

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Specifically, a play by a man named Patrick Hamilton

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called Gaslight. Which then, of course, became

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a movie. Two movies, actually. There was a British

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one in 1940, but the one that etched this concept

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into history is the 1944 American adaptation.

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Ah, the famous one. George Cukor directed it.

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It starred Ingrid Bergman, Charles Boyer, and

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Joseph Cotton. And I really want to dwell on

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the plot of this film for a minute because it

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isn't just a story. It's a perfect diagram of

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the psychological mechanism we're discussing.

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Okay, set the scene for us. This is Victorian

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London. Victorian London. We're in high society.

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We have Paula, played by Ingrid Bergman, who

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is an heiress. She's young, she's a bit vulnerable,

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and she falls head over heels for Gregory, who's

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played by Charles Boyer. And Gregory. Let me

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guess, he's not what he seems. Not at all. He

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presents himself as this perfect, genteel gentleman.

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He's charming, he's attentive, but he has a very

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specific, very predatory goal. He wants her money.

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He wants her jewels, specifically. There are

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priceless rubies hidden somewhere in the attic

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of the house she inherited. But here's the problem.

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He can't just go up and get them. Right. He can't

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just go up and get them while she's around. He

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needs to search the whole attic, but he needs

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her to be out of the way. And more importantly,

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he needs to isolate her so that if he gets caught,

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no one will believe her. So his plan isn't just

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steal the jewels. It's convince the world and

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my own wife that she is completely insane. That

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is the entire strategy. He begins the slow, methodical

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campaign to make her believe she is losing her

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mind. He hides things, a brooch, a picture, and

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then blames her for losing them. He tells her

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she's forgetful. Little things at first. Plausible

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deniability. Exactly. But the centerpiece, the

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reason we have this word. is the gas lights themselves.

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Okay, explain the physics here because I think

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we all take flip switches for granted now. How

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did these lights actually work? Well, in a Victorian

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home like that, the gas lines were all part of

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a single closed system. So if you turned on a

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heavy gas lamp in one room, say the attic, the

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pressure would drop slightly in all the other

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rooms. The lights elsewhere would physically

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dim. You would see it happen. So it's kind of

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like hydraulic pressure. One goes up, the other

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goes down. Simple cause and effect. Exactly.

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So every night, Gregory tells Paula he's going

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out, but he doesn't. He sneaks out of the house,

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circles back around, and goes into the boarded

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-up attic to search for these rubies. And when

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he's up there... When he lights the gas lamp

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in the attic to see what he's doing, the lights

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downstairs in the drawing room where Paula's

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sitting all alone... They dim. They physically

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go down. She sees this. It is a real physical

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event happening in front of her. She sees it

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with her own eyes, and she hears footsteps upstairs.

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So naturally, when he comes back home later,

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she says, Gregory, the lights went down again.

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I think someone is in the attic. And this is

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the moment, the namesake moment. This is the

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moment. He doesn't just say, I don't know what

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you're talking about. He looks at her with this

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sense of pity. and concern that's what makes

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it so sinister yes he says paula darling the

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lights didn't flicker you're imagining things

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again you're so tired you're becoming hysterical

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he denies the physical reality she just witnessed

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and he enlists the servants in this too doesn't

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he they're not in on the crime but they're part

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of the manipulation They are. He manipulates

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the entire environment so completely that the

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servants, who are just unaware, reinforce his

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narrative. They tell her nobody was upstairs.

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They confirm her forgetfulness. So Paula is left

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with two options. Option A. Her husband, the

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man she loves and trusts, is a criminal mastermind

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lying to her face. Or, option B, her own brain

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is failing her. She is going crazy. And because

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of the power dynamic, because she loves him and

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relies on him for her sense of reality, option

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B actually feels more plausible to her. That's

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the tragedy of it. She breaks. She completely

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stops trusting her own eyes. She accepts his

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reality over her own. It's so chilling because

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it's so claustrophobic. The threat isn't physical

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violence, not at first. It's the complete erosion

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of her mind. It's an assault on her autonomy,

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on her very selfhood. And what's really interesting

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is that the word gaslighting as a verb, like

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he's gaslighting her, it wasn't in the script.

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It wasn't used in the movie at all. Really? So

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Ingrid Bergman never says, stop gaslighting me,

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Gregory? Not once. The movie was just called

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Gaslighting. The term gaslighting, as a gerund,

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you know, the verb form, it didn't appear in

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recorded language until 1961. And even then,

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it was incredibly obscure. It was basically underground.

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Deep underground. I mean, it popped up in a New

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York Times column by Maureen Dowd in 1995, but

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even that didn't spark a trend. So people read

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it and just moved on? They did. In the 20 years

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after that 1995 column, the New York Times only

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used the word nine times. Nine times? In two

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decades? That's wild. It is. So for almost 80

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years, this perfect metaphor was just sitting

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there gathering dust, known only to like film

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buffs and maybe a few psychologists, and then

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boom. 2016 happens. And suddenly we needed a

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word for reality distortion. On a massive scale.

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We did. Okay, so let's get into the gears of

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this. We have the movie metaphor, which is incredibly

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clear. But real life isn't a Hollywood script.

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How does this mechanic actually work between

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two modern people? Because I feel like I could

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easily, you know, accidentally gaslight someone

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if I just have a bad memory. This is a critical

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distinction, and it's where most of the online

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confusion comes from. We have to separate gaslighting

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from lying and from disagreement. They are three

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completely different things. Okay, play this

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out for me. Let's use an example. I eat the last

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cookie from the cookie jar. You come in and ask

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who ate it. I say, I didn't eat it. Is that gaslighting?

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No, that's just a simple lie. You're hiding a

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specific action to avoid getting into trouble.

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It's a cover -up. Okay, so what if I take it

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a step further? What if I say there never were

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any cookies in that jar? You're crazy for thinking

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we even bought cookies this week. Now we're getting

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warmer. We're moving towards the territory. But

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even that, if it just happens one time, is probably

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just a bizarre, elaborate lie. So what are the

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missing ingredients? Gaslighting requires two

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specific components that have to be present.

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A power imbalance and a pattern over time. It's

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not a one -off event. Okay, explain the power

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imbalance. Why is that so necessary? I mean,

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if a random guy on the subway tells me the sky

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is green, I don't start questioning my sanity.

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I just think he's, you know, maybe had a long

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day. Precisely. You have no emotional investment

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in that stranger's opinion of reality. You have

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independent autonomy. Gaslighting only really

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works when the victim needs the manipulator's

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version of reality to be true, either for emotional

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safety, financial security, or professional survival.

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So it has to be a spouse, a parent, a boss. Yeah.

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Someone whose opinion fundamentally defines your

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world. Yes. The dynamic requires the gas lighter

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to consistently, persistently put forth a false

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narrative. And the gas lighted person struggles

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to maintain their autonomy against that barrage.

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It's a war of attrition. So the goal isn't just.

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to win the argument about the cookies no the

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goal is to make you believe that your memory

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is so fundamentally faulty that next time you

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won't even ask about the cookies you'll just

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assume you were wrong to begin with it's training

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it's grooming it's conditioning the victim to

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outsource their reality testing to the perpetrator

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so instead of i think the cookies were there

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it becomes i don't know if that happened i better

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ask gregory that is just terrifying but i want

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to push back on something i feel like in genuine

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arguments especially with a partner We often

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remember things differently. I said X and they

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say, no, you said Y. Is that gaslighting? Because

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that happens all the time. No. And this is the

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absolute core of where the Internet gets it wrong.

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In a genuine conflict, I might be stubborn. I

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might be wrong. I might even be shouting. But

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I'm usually trying to convince you of my perspective.

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I'm listening to you, even if I'm angry and disagreeing.

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So there's a chaotic but real. Exchange of ideas.

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Right. Gaslighting is characterized by the constant

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negation of the other person's perception. It's

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not I disagree with what you felt. It is your

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feeling is wrong. It's your reaction is irrational.

00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:09.779
You are hysterical. You're being oversensitive.

00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:12.440
It attacks the validity of the person's emotional

00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:15.179
response, not the content of the argument. You've

00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:17.279
got it. It shifts the ground from what happened

00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.419
to what is wrong with you for thinking that happened.

00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:22.039
And the psychological impact is, well, it's severe.

00:12:22.259 --> 00:12:25.129
It's incredibly severe. We are not talking about

00:12:25.129 --> 00:12:28.330
being annoyed or frustrated after a fight. Victims

00:12:28.330 --> 00:12:31.450
of long -term gaslighting exhibit symptoms of

00:12:31.450 --> 00:12:35.149
severe anxiety disorders, major depression, and

00:12:35.149 --> 00:12:37.389
a complete and utter collapse of self -esteem.

00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:39.929
They lose themselves. They often describe it

00:12:39.929 --> 00:12:42.789
as a loss of self. They genuinely don't know

00:12:42.789 --> 00:12:45.289
who they are anymore without the abuser's constant

00:12:45.289 --> 00:12:48.309
input defining their reality. Which brings us

00:12:48.309 --> 00:12:51.710
to this problem of concept creep. It's a term

00:12:51.710 --> 00:12:53.610
I've been seeing a lot because the word is so

00:12:53.610 --> 00:12:56.090
popular it's being used for everything. The Washington

00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:59.090
Post called it out as therapy speak. Therapy

00:12:59.090 --> 00:13:01.429
speak is a great term for it. It's when these

00:13:01.429 --> 00:13:04.169
clinical terms escape the clinic and get sort

00:13:04.169 --> 00:13:06.149
of mauled in the streets. We see it all the time.

00:13:06.230 --> 00:13:08.049
Right, like OCD is just used for being neat and

00:13:08.049 --> 00:13:11.690
tidy or trauma is used to describe having a bad

00:13:11.690 --> 00:13:14.090
day at work. Or narcissist, for anyone who takes

00:13:14.090 --> 00:13:16.490
a selfie, it's the same phenomenon. And with

00:13:16.490 --> 00:13:19.970
gaslighting, the danger is dilution. Well, Robin

00:13:19.970 --> 00:13:22.409
Stern, who's a PhD at the Yale Center for Emotional

00:13:22.409 --> 00:13:24.210
Intelligence, I mean, she literally wrote the

00:13:24.210 --> 00:13:26.389
book on this, The Gaslight Effect. She's very

00:13:26.389 --> 00:13:28.649
worried about this. She notes that the word gaslighting

00:13:28.649 --> 00:13:31.610
is now often used in an accusatory way just to

00:13:31.610 --> 00:13:34.090
shut down an argument. It's a trump card. If

00:13:34.090 --> 00:13:36.610
I just yell, you're gaslighting me, I instantly

00:13:36.610 --> 00:13:38.769
win the moral high ground and you have to defend

00:13:38.769 --> 00:13:40.970
yourself. Exactly. It's become the new, you're

00:13:40.970 --> 00:13:44.210
being a jerk. But if we label every disagreement,

00:13:44.309 --> 00:13:48.049
every instance of someone being stubborn as gaslighting,

00:13:48.049 --> 00:13:50.929
we make it impossible to identify the real victim.

00:13:51.110 --> 00:13:53.429
We're crying wolf. We are crying wolf on a very

00:13:53.429 --> 00:13:56.509
specific and very dangerous predator. If a woman

00:13:56.509 --> 00:13:59.149
goes to the police or a therapist and says, my

00:13:59.149 --> 00:14:01.710
partner is gaslighting me and the world has decided

00:14:01.710 --> 00:14:03.950
that just means he disagrees with me a lot. She's

00:14:03.950 --> 00:14:07.029
in real danger. We strip the word of its red

00:14:07.029 --> 00:14:10.710
flag status. It's power to warn. We do. And we

00:14:10.710 --> 00:14:12.990
need to pivot here because while we're all debating

00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:15.809
the colloquial use of the term on Twitter, the

00:14:15.809 --> 00:14:18.129
actual clinical history of gaslighting, even

00:14:18.129 --> 00:14:20.490
before we had the word, is absolutely horrifying.

00:14:20.750 --> 00:14:23.549
It really is. We tend to think of this as a domestic

00:14:23.549 --> 00:14:26.429
issue, a husband and a wife. But the research

00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:29.970
you pulled on institutional gaslighting, honestly,

00:14:30.149 --> 00:14:32.129
it reads like a horror movie script. This is

00:14:32.129 --> 00:14:33.830
the section that really messed me up when I was

00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:36.990
prepping. The involuntary commitment strategy.

00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:40.169
It is so dark. So there's this study by Barton

00:14:40.169 --> 00:14:43.169
and Whitehead published way back in 1969. They

00:14:43.169 --> 00:14:45.429
weren't using the word gaslighting per se, but

00:14:45.429 --> 00:14:47.690
they were documenting the specific phenomenon

00:14:47.690 --> 00:14:50.690
where family members use these exact tactics

00:14:50.690 --> 00:14:53.730
to get relatives locked away in psychiatric wards.

00:14:53.870 --> 00:14:55.429
Just to get rid of them. To get rid of them or

00:14:55.429 --> 00:14:58.230
to get their money. They documented one case

00:14:58.230 --> 00:15:00.870
where a wife wanted to elope with her lover.

00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:03.610
She didn't want the mess of a divorce. She just

00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:05.509
wanted her husband. gone. So what did she do?

00:15:05.629 --> 00:15:08.169
She started framing him as violent. She would

00:15:08.169 --> 00:15:10.549
provoke him, start huge fights, then run to the

00:15:10.549 --> 00:15:12.970
neighbors crying. She would lie to their friends,

00:15:13.129 --> 00:15:16.250
create these public scenes. She manipulated the

00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:18.450
social reality around him until the authorities

00:15:18.450 --> 00:15:20.950
believed he was the danger. So he gets locked

00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:23.009
up and she's free to run off with the lover.

00:15:23.129 --> 00:15:26.129
And just imagine the husband is sitting in a

00:15:26.129 --> 00:15:28.690
padded room telling the doctors, I didn't do

00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:31.590
anything. She's lying. Which, of course, in that

00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:34.250
context, just makes him sound paranoid and delusional.

00:15:34.409 --> 00:15:36.789
It's the perfect trap. The more you protest your

00:15:36.789 --> 00:15:39.330
sanity, the crazier you sound. That's a catch

00:15:39.330 --> 00:15:41.730
-22. There was another case they documented involving

00:15:41.730 --> 00:15:44.990
a pub owner. His wife wanted the business. She

00:15:44.990 --> 00:15:47.809
claimed he was a violent alcoholic. She gaslit

00:15:47.809 --> 00:15:50.750
him and the doctors to get him committed so she

00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:53.049
could take over the pub license. It's pure greed.

00:15:53.309 --> 00:15:56.029
It is. But the one that really stays with me...

00:15:56.460 --> 00:15:59.419
This one is truly sinister. It was a retirement

00:15:59.419 --> 00:16:01.759
home manager. She wanted to get rid of a resident

00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:04.600
she just didn't like. So she started secretly

00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.740
dosing the woman's food with laxatives. Oh, my

00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:10.960
God. Yes. The resident obviously starts having

00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:12.919
accidents. She's losing control of her bowels.

00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:14.980
She's humiliated. She's confused. I can't even

00:16:14.980 --> 00:16:17.080
imagine. And the manager then points to this

00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.379
and says, look, she has advanced dementia. She's

00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:21.919
incontinent. She needs to be in a secure psych

00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.220
ward, not here. That is monstrous. Because the

00:16:25.220 --> 00:16:27.399
victim's own body. body is betraying her. She

00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:30.799
is having accidents. The evidence is real, but

00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.159
the cause is completely manufactured. That is

00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.519
the ultimate gaslight. When the manipulator turns

00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.279
reality itself, your own body, into the weapon

00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.080
they use to prove you're crazy. And there was

00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.720
another case, the paranoia case from 1977, Lund

00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.759
and Gardner. Yes, this one just breaks my heart.

00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.440
It was an elderly woman who kept getting committed

00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.399
for episodes of psychosis. She would be sent

00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.279
to the hospital screaming, agitated, completely

00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.559
disoriented. Okay. But the weird thing was, the

00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:00.700
second she was admitted to the hospital, the

00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:03.799
symptoms vanished. She'd become lucid. She was

00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:05.940
calm. She was perfectly rational. That should

00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:07.920
have been a massive red flag to the doctors.

00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:10.359
It was eventually. They investigated. And it

00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.539
turned out the staff at her retirement home were

00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:14.960
systematically gaslighting her. But here's the

00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.880
twist. This woman actually did have a history

00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.480
of psychosis from about 15 years prior. Ah, so

00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.160
they had the file. They knew her history. They

00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.440
had the file. They knew her trigger points. They

00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.279
knew exactly how to harass her to induce a state

00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.539
of panic. They knew that if they pushed her enough

00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:34.220
to make her scream and shout, the doctors would

00:17:34.220 --> 00:17:36.339
just look at her chart, see history of psychosis

00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:38.980
and ignore anything she said. They weaponized

00:17:38.980 --> 00:17:41.400
her own medical history to discredit her present

00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:44.269
reality. Exactly. It really goes to show that

00:17:44.269 --> 00:17:47.170
you can't gaslight this effectively without some

00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:50.190
form of institutional power backing you up. The

00:17:50.190 --> 00:17:53.069
doctors, the charts, the system, they all become

00:17:53.069 --> 00:17:56.410
unknowing accomplices. And speaking of accomplices,

00:17:56.549 --> 00:17:58.849
we have to talk about the therapists themselves.

00:18:00.109 --> 00:18:01.990
Because we like to think the therapist's office

00:18:01.990 --> 00:18:04.609
is the safe space, the one place you can go for

00:18:04.609 --> 00:18:06.970
a reality check. It's supposed to be. But Theo

00:18:06.970 --> 00:18:10.569
Dorpat's book from 1996 says otherwise. Gaslighting,

00:18:10.589 --> 00:18:13.109
the double whammy, interrogation, and other methods

00:18:13.109 --> 00:18:15.690
of covert control and psychotherapy. It's a mouthful

00:18:15.690 --> 00:18:18.769
of a title, but it's a groundbreaking book. Dorpat

00:18:18.769 --> 00:18:20.750
argued that therapists can be the most dangerous

00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:23.130
gaslighters of all. How is that even possible?

00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:26.809
Their entire job is to listen and validate. Yes.

00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.500
but they also hold what he called the interpretive

00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:33.779
power. Let's say you are my patient. You come

00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:35.619
into my office for your appointment and I'm 20

00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:38.359
minutes late. You're annoyed, understandably.

00:18:38.750 --> 00:18:41.349
You say, it's disrespectful that you kept me

00:18:41.349 --> 00:18:43.869
waiting. Which is a completely valid complaint.

00:18:44.109 --> 00:18:47.529
A normal human reaction. But if I am a gaslighting

00:18:47.529 --> 00:18:49.529
therapist or even just a very defensive one,

00:18:49.630 --> 00:18:52.289
I might say, your anger right now isn't about

00:18:52.289 --> 00:18:54.890
me being late. It's actually a projection of

00:18:54.890 --> 00:18:57.170
your unresolved issues with your father who abandoned

00:18:57.170 --> 00:19:00.390
you as a child. Wow. So I can't just be mad that

00:19:00.390 --> 00:19:02.210
you're late. My feeling has to be a symptom of

00:19:02.210 --> 00:19:04.970
something else. Exactly. Your reality is pathologized.

00:19:05.150 --> 00:19:07.529
Your valid reaction is mislabeled as a symptom.

00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.039
Dorpat called this covert control, and he warned

00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.279
that this kind of unintentional abuse can cause

00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.960
severe nervous breakdowns. I can see how. He

00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.960
even linked it to patient suicides in the most

00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.559
extreme cases. Because if the one person you

00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:22.579
pay to be your reality anchor tells you that

00:19:22.579 --> 00:19:24.960
your feelings are a sign of sickness, where do

00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:26.839
you go from there? You have nowhere left to stand.

00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:29.039
It sounds like the ultimate ego trip for the

00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.440
therapist. I know your mind better than you do.

00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:33.619
Which brings us right back to the question you

00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:37.730
asked earlier, why? Who are these people? What

00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:40.970
is going on in the brain of a gaslighter? Are

00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:43.470
they all just villains twirling their mustaches?

00:19:43.710 --> 00:19:46.809
Right. Is it calculated evil or are they broken

00:19:46.809 --> 00:19:48.930
in some way too? And the uncomfortable truth

00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:52.450
is that for many, gaslighting is a defense mechanism.

00:19:52.710 --> 00:19:55.210
It's all about their own anxiety regulation.

00:19:55.630 --> 00:19:57.970
Wait, hold on. They gaslight other people to

00:19:57.970 --> 00:20:00.869
calm themselves down. Think about it. A gaslighter

00:20:00.869 --> 00:20:03.369
is often someone with an incredibly fragile sense

00:20:03.369 --> 00:20:06.779
of self. Ironically, they cannot handle being

00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:08.940
wrong. They cannot handle being the bad guy in

00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:11.119
any story. So when they forget to pick up the

00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.319
kids from school or they cheat on a partner or

00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.720
they make a huge mistake at work, the shame and

00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.660
anxiety are so intolerable that they must rewrite

00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:21.420
reality. So saying I never agreed to pick up

00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:24.000
the kids isn't just a lie to get out of trouble

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.359
in that moment. It's a way to protect their own

00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:29.140
ego from the reality that they failed. Exactly.

00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:31.700
It restores their sense of control. It quells

00:20:31.700 --> 00:20:33.819
their own internal payoffs. It absolutely destroys

00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:38.559
you, yes. But for them, in that moment, it feels

00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.599
like survival. Is it something they learn? Or

00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:43.819
are people just born this way? It's widely considered

00:20:43.819 --> 00:20:46.420
a learned trait. It's social learning. You grow

00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:48.559
up and you watch your father do it to your mother.

00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:51.359
You see that when dad denies reality, the argument

00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:53.720
ends and he gets to sit down and watch TV in

00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:56.880
peace. And you learn, ah, this is a tool that

00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.940
works. It's an efficient tool for conflict avoidance

00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:03.440
and self -regulation. Ruthlessly efficient. Now,

00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:05.440
of course, there is a strong correlation with

00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.539
certain personality disorders. Like what? Narcissistic

00:21:08.539 --> 00:21:11.059
personality disorder, or NPD, is the classic

00:21:11.059 --> 00:21:13.680
one. Also, borderline personality disorder, BPD,

00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.799
and antisocial personality disorder, or sociopathy.

00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:19.700
People with these profiles are much more prone

00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:22.180
to using manipulation to regulate their environments

00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:24.599
and their emotions. But not everyone who gaslights

00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:27.180
has a personality disorder. Not at all. Plenty

00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:29.160
of otherwise normal people stumble into these

00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:30.960
behaviors just because they're emotionally immature

00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.839
and terrified of conflict and shame. We've talked

00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:35.519
a lot about the individual, the one -on -one

00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:38.519
dynamic. But I want to zoom out now because the

00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.079
outline here pivots to these broader contexts.

00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:43.680
And some of these affect millions and millions

00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:47.099
of people. They do. The core mechanism of gaslighting.

00:21:46.890 --> 00:21:49.130
Gaslighting, denying someone's reality in order

00:21:49.130 --> 00:21:52.529
to maintain power, it scales up perfectly. Let's

00:21:52.529 --> 00:21:55.349
start with one that is huge right now, especially

00:21:55.349 --> 00:21:58.589
on social media. Medical gaslighting. I see women

00:21:58.589 --> 00:22:01.329
sharing stories every day about years of pain

00:22:01.329 --> 00:22:04.750
being ignored by doctors. It is a massive systemic

00:22:04.750 --> 00:22:08.170
issue. Medical gaslighting is when a patient's

00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:10.769
direct, firsthand report of their own symptoms

00:22:10.769 --> 00:22:14.230
is dismissed, downplayed, or minimized by a medical

00:22:14.230 --> 00:22:16.980
professional. And the statistics are clear. This

00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:19.059
disproportionately happens to women and people

00:22:19.059 --> 00:22:21.119
of color. It's the old don't worry your pretty

00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.980
little head about it diagnosis or it's all in

00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:26.859
your head. Or it's just stress or it's just anxiety

00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:29.299
or the classic maybe you should try losing some

00:22:29.299 --> 00:22:31.559
weight. I was reading a case about a woman who

00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.720
went to doctors for years with severe abdominal

00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.440
pain. For years they told her it was anxiety.

00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:39.380
They told her it was just her period. And what

00:22:39.380 --> 00:22:42.279
was it? It turned out to be stage four ovarian

00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.839
cancer. That is infuriating. And tragic. The

00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.359
delay in diagnosis caused by doctors prioritizing

00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:51.700
their own biases over the patient's reported

00:22:51.700 --> 00:22:55.720
reality was ultimately fatal. That is gaslighting

00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:57.619
with a death count. Then there's the workplace.

00:22:57.940 --> 00:23:01.559
We have Kate Abramson's 2024 book on gaslighting.

00:23:01.710 --> 00:23:03.430
She talks about this a lot. Abramson makes a

00:23:03.430 --> 00:23:05.569
great point about how it functions in a professional

00:23:05.569 --> 00:23:09.490
setting. Imagine an employee goes to HR to report

00:23:09.490 --> 00:23:12.750
harassment. She says, my boss made a sexist comment

00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:15.230
to me in a meeting. Okay. And the HR manager

00:23:15.230 --> 00:23:17.849
or the boss's boss responds with, oh, you know

00:23:17.849 --> 00:23:19.349
he didn't mean it like that. You're being too

00:23:19.349 --> 00:23:21.819
sensitive. Can't you take a joke? That phrase,

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.180
you're being too sensitive, it seems to be the

00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:26.380
universal slogan of the gaslighter, doesn't it?

00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:28.859
It's the skeleton key. It unlocks everything

00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:31.299
because it immediately shifts the problem from

00:23:31.299 --> 00:23:33.200
the action, the harassment, to the reaction,

00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.140
the victim's sensitivity. It protects the institution

00:23:36.140 --> 00:23:38.740
by pathologizing the person who complained. Which

00:23:38.740 --> 00:23:41.740
leads us directly into racial gaslighting. This

00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:44.299
is a heavy term, but help us unpack it. How is

00:23:44.299 --> 00:23:47.059
this different from just regular racism? That's

00:23:47.059 --> 00:23:50.509
a great question. If racism is the structural

00:23:50.509 --> 00:23:53.730
oppression itself, then racial gaslighting is

00:23:53.730 --> 00:23:56.470
the psychological defense mechanism used to deny

00:23:56.470 --> 00:23:59.549
that the oppression exists. It's the pathologizing

00:23:59.549 --> 00:24:01.609
of dissent. Can you give me an example of that?

00:24:01.710 --> 00:24:03.990
Sure. When a black employee points out that a

00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:06.670
company's hiring policy seems to be biased and

00:24:06.670 --> 00:24:09.109
the response from management is you're being

00:24:09.109 --> 00:24:11.910
divisive or you're always obsessed with race

00:24:11.910 --> 00:24:15.369
or my favorite, that's actually reverse discrimination.

00:24:16.349 --> 00:24:18.509
So instead of addressing the actual data of the

00:24:18.509 --> 00:24:21.730
hiring policy, the conversation is shifted to

00:24:21.730 --> 00:24:23.910
attack the perception and motive of the person

00:24:23.910 --> 00:24:26.130
pointing it out. Exactly. It's a way to coerce

00:24:26.130 --> 00:24:28.349
marginalized people into doubting their own lived

00:24:28.349 --> 00:24:30.829
experience of racism. It forces them to ask,

00:24:30.890 --> 00:24:33.769
am I just being paranoid? Is it just me? It upholds

00:24:33.769 --> 00:24:36.289
the existing power hierarchy by making any challenge

00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:39.210
to that power seem irrational or crazy. And that,

00:24:39.250 --> 00:24:41.490
my friend, is the perfect bridge to the biggest

00:24:41.490 --> 00:24:44.250
stage of all, the politics. The macro scale.

00:24:44.309 --> 00:24:46.880
This is where it gets really big. I saw a reference

00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.279
to a 2008 book, State of Confusion, that argued

00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.519
political gaslighting is basically what you get

00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.660
when modern marketing techniques meet old school

00:24:55.660 --> 00:24:59.000
propaganda. It is. And the goal in politics often

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.019
isn't even to make you love the leader. It's

00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:03.119
just to confuse you so much that you disengage

00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.539
entirely. If you don't know what's true anymore,

00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.539
you can't fight back effectively. You just give

00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:10.039
up. And we have to be really clear here. Our

00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.619
sources point out that this is a tool, not an

00:25:12.619 --> 00:25:14.779
ideology. It happens on both sides of the aisle.

00:25:15.019 --> 00:25:17.279
Absolutely. It's a tool of power, not a partisan

00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.140
policy. Anyone with the ambition to use it can.

00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:24.440
So on the right, journalists use the term constantly

00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:26.759
during the Trump years. It really exploded then.

00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:29.779
Things like alternative facts. The idea that

00:25:29.779 --> 00:25:32.440
you could just say the crowd size at the inauguration

00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:34.960
was the biggest in history, even when photos

00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:37.400
clearly showed empty space. That was a textbook

00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:39.960
example, a direct challenge to visual reality.

00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:42.660
The message was, don't believe your lying eyes.

00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.799
Believe what I tell you. But then you see it

00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.839
on the left, too. The sources point to a moment

00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.680
in 2025 when Jake Tapper on CNN asked Minnesota

00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.599
Governor Tim Walz if the Democratic Party had

00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.539
engaged in gaslighting the public regarding the

00:25:57.539 --> 00:26:00.440
2024 election. Right. The essence of the question

00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.950
was. For months, we were told everything was

00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:05.890
fine. The polling data said everything was fine.

00:26:06.049 --> 00:26:09.210
But now we see that it wasn't. Were we being

00:26:09.210 --> 00:26:11.730
managed? Were our perceptions being managed?

00:26:11.970 --> 00:26:14.470
So when any political party controls the official

00:26:14.470 --> 00:26:17.410
narrative so tightly that it starts to conflict

00:26:17.410 --> 00:26:19.269
with what voters are seeing and feeling with

00:26:19.269 --> 00:26:21.670
their own eyes, that's political gaslighting.

00:26:21.670 --> 00:26:23.549
That's the charge. But if we want to see the

00:26:23.549 --> 00:26:26.609
final boss of political gaslighting, the most

00:26:26.609 --> 00:26:30.130
extreme, terrifying example. We have to go to

00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:32.789
East Germany. The Stasi, the Ministry for State

00:26:32.789 --> 00:26:35.029
Security. The Stasi. I read about this technique

00:26:35.029 --> 00:26:37.450
they perfected, a method called Zersetzung. It

00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:40.089
translates to decomposition or biodegradation.

00:26:40.190 --> 00:26:41.950
Which is just a horrifying name for a government

00:26:41.950 --> 00:26:43.950
program targeting its own people. It's chilling.

00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:47.269
It was pure psychological warfare. See, in the

00:26:47.269 --> 00:26:50.910
1970s and 80s, the GDR, East Germany, wanted

00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:53.190
to look respectable to the West. They couldn't

00:26:53.190 --> 00:26:55.190
just keep arresting every dissident and throwing

00:26:55.190 --> 00:26:57.529
them in jail. It looked bad on international

00:26:57.529 --> 00:27:00.900
television. So they needed a quieter way to neutralize

00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:04.339
opposition. Exactly. They developed zersetzung

00:27:04.339 --> 00:27:07.200
to psychologically paralyze hostile negative

00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.859
people without ever having to arrest them. How

00:27:09.859 --> 00:27:12.859
on earth did they do it? They gaslit them. On

00:27:12.859 --> 00:27:16.039
an industrial scale, Stasi agents would break

00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:17.680
into a dissident's apartment while they were

00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.839
at work, but they wouldn't steal anything. That

00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:21.339
would be too obvious. So what would they do?

00:27:21.579 --> 00:27:24.079
They would move the furniture, just slightly,

00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:26.599
an inch to the left. They would take a picture

00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:28.400
off the wall and hang it on a different wall.

00:27:28.539 --> 00:27:30.180
They would change the time on the person's alarm

00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.059
clock so they'd be late for work. They would

00:27:32.059 --> 00:27:34.059
go into the kitchen and replace the brand of

00:27:34.059 --> 00:27:36.119
tea in the cupboard with a different brand. That

00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:38.380
is just maddening. You'd come home and your entire

00:27:38.380 --> 00:27:41.880
house would just feel long, off. Imagine that

00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.140
happening every single week. You tell your friends,

00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:46.180
I think someone is breaking into my apartment

00:27:46.180 --> 00:27:48.799
and moving my tea. Your friends look at you like

00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.519
you finally lost it. Why would the secret police

00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.920
break in just to change your brand of tea, Hans?

00:27:54.059 --> 00:27:56.779
You're just stressed. So you become totally isolated.

00:27:57.019 --> 00:27:59.000
You start to doubt your own memory, your own

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.220
sanity. And they did more. They would order embarrassing

00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:05.299
items, like sex toys, to be delivered to the

00:28:05.299 --> 00:28:07.599
person's workplace to create shame and suspicion.

00:28:08.299 --> 00:28:10.680
They would send doctors to the person's home

00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:12.500
to tell them they were sick when they weren't.

00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:14.859
It's a complete manufactured reality. The goal

00:28:14.859 --> 00:28:18.619
was to induce a total crisis of confidence. They

00:28:18.619 --> 00:28:20.880
wanted the dissident to be so consumed by their

00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:24.079
own personal psychological chaos that they simply

00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.460
didn't have the mental or emotional energy to

00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:37.700
organize a protest. And it worked. The state

00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:40.319
never had to lay a hand on them publicly. It

00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:42.740
is the ultimate proof that gaslighting is a weapon

00:28:42.740 --> 00:28:46.779
of control. Okay. We have stared into the abyss.

00:28:46.779 --> 00:28:49.000
We've seen the Stassi. We've seen the bad therapists.

00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:52.359
We've seen the husbands in the attic. Now, for

00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.460
the listener who is sitting there and feeling

00:28:54.460 --> 00:28:56.220
a tightness in their chest, because some of this

00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:59.259
sounds way too familiar, we need to talk about

00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:02.259
habilitation. How do you get out? It's one of

00:29:02.259 --> 00:29:04.500
the hardest things a person can do. Breaking

00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:07.460
free is incredibly difficult because by definition,

00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.259
your primary escape tool, your own mind, your

00:29:11.259 --> 00:29:14.099
own judgment has been compromised. Right. You

00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:16.859
can't just trust your gut when your gut has been

00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:19.359
systematically retrained to distrust itself.

00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:22.359
Exactly. So trust yourself is actually terrible

00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:24.160
advice to start with. It's like telling someone

00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:26.480
with a broken leg to just walk it off. You need

00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.579
external tools. You need crutches. Okay. Give

00:29:28.579 --> 00:29:30.779
us the toolkit. What are the crutches? Step one,

00:29:30.859 --> 00:29:33.200
and this is the most important, the reality diary.

00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:35.599
You have to externalize your memory. You can't

00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.640
trust it, so write it down. When a conversation

00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:39.700
happens, when a promise is made, write it down

00:29:39.700 --> 00:29:43.059
immediately. Date, time, what was said, verbatim

00:29:43.059 --> 00:29:45.279
if you can. So when the gaslighter says two weeks

00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.119
later, I never said that, you're making that

00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:49.359
up, you can look at your book. You have a transcript.

00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.279
You have a transcript. And it's not for showing

00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.339
him or her. Don't argue with it. They'll just

00:29:55.339 --> 00:29:57.039
say you wrote it down wrong or you misheard.

00:29:57.460 --> 00:29:59.460
It's for you. It's a private anchor you can look

00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:02.460
at and say, I am not crazy. This happened. Okay,

00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:04.640
that makes sense. What's step two? Step two,

00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:09.160
the reality proxy. or what I call a board of

00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.140
directors. You need a trusted friend, a sister,

00:30:12.339 --> 00:30:15.619
a therapist, a good one who is completely outside

00:30:15.619 --> 00:30:18.079
the bubble of the relationship. Someone you can

00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:20.920
call and say, Am I crazy or is this really weird?

00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:23.579
Yes, and you have to be totally honest with them.

00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:26.119
People who are being gaslighted often hide the

00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:28.460
abuse because they feel ashamed or stupid. You

00:30:28.460 --> 00:30:30.599
have to open the books. Let someone else help

00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.019
validate your reality until you are strong enough

00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:35.380
to do it for yourself again. And what about the

00:30:35.380 --> 00:30:37.440
practical side? I feel like a lot of people stay

00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.000
because the gaslighter controls the money or

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.750
the house. That is almost always part of the

00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:45.710
trap. Financial control is a huge component.

00:30:46.029 --> 00:30:49.369
So the habilitation plan must include a logistical

00:30:49.369 --> 00:30:52.950
exit strategy, quietly gathering important documents,

00:30:53.089 --> 00:30:54.970
saving a little bit of money in a secret account

00:30:54.970 --> 00:30:58.549
if you can. You cannot heal your mind while you

00:30:58.549 --> 00:31:00.730
are still dependent on the poison for your survival.

00:31:00.910 --> 00:31:03.170
It's a full rebuild of the self from the ground

00:31:03.170 --> 00:31:06.480
up. It is. But the ultimate goal, the thing you're

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.079
working towards, is to reach a point where you

00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.559
don't need the other person to agree with you

00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:14.279
for your reality to be true. That's the heavy

00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:15.880
lift, isn't it? That's the final graduation.

00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:18.519
I know the light's dimmed. I don't need you to

00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:20.279
sign off on it. I know what I saw. I know what

00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:22.980
I heard. I know what I felt. That is the mantra.

00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:25.279
We've covered so much ground today, from the

00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:28.819
fog of 1938 London to the Google trends of 2022.

00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:32.059
from a single attic to the SCSI headquarters

00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:34.599
in Berlin. It's a journey through the fragility

00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.279
and the resilience of the human mind. And I think

00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:39.220
the reason this topic hits so hard for so many

00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:42.039
of us right now is that, in a weird way, we're

00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.380
all feeling a little bit like Paula in that house.

00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:47.500
How do you mean? Well, look at our world. Deepfakes.

00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:51.700
AI -generated images. Social media algorithms

00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:54.519
that feed you a completely different news reality

00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:56.920
than the person living next door to you. We are

00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:59.099
living in that state of confusion. We absolutely

00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:01.680
are. The entire modern information ecosystem

00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:04.740
is in some ways designed to make us question

00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:07.279
what is true. So the provocative thought I kind

00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.240
of want to leave everyone with is this. In an

00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.420
era where reality itself is constantly being

00:32:13.420 --> 00:32:17.140
edited, filtered and spun. are we all being slightly

00:32:17.140 --> 00:32:19.759
gaslighted by the sheer volume of the noise?

00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.339
It's a very valid fear. It's hard to find a solid

00:32:22.339 --> 00:32:24.299
footing. And if so, then the lesson from that

00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:26.220
old black and white movie is maybe the only one

00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:28.680
that matters anymore. When the lights dim, don't

00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:30.859
let anyone, no matter how powerful or convincing

00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:33.480
they are, tell you they didn't. Trust your eyes.

00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:35.839
Trust your eyes. That's it for this deep dive.

00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:37.759
Take care of yourselves, and we'll see you in

00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:38.099
the next one.
