WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.560 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. I want to start 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:05.519 today by asking you to just reset your mental 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:07.740 calendar for a minute. Forget the headlines you 00:00:07.740 --> 00:00:10.419 saw this morning. I want you to imagine a world 00:00:10.419 --> 00:00:15.199 where if a crime happens and, you know, there 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:17.760 isn't an eyewitness and there isn't a perfect 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:22.739 clean fingerprint left on a smooth surface. Well, 00:00:22.780 --> 00:00:25.460 that's it. It's over. It's over. The case goes 00:00:25.460 --> 00:00:28.260 cold. It's actually, it's pretty hard for us 00:00:28.260 --> 00:00:30.160 to picture that now, isn't it? it's a completely 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:32.479 different universe it really is we just take 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:35.659 this this kind of forensic omniscience for granted 00:00:35.659 --> 00:00:37.979 now total we just assume that if you leave any 00:00:37.979 --> 00:00:40.579 kind of biological trace you're caught end of 00:00:40.579 --> 00:00:43.460 story yeah a hair a drop of sweat anything but 00:00:43.460 --> 00:00:46.140 for the vast vast majority of human history i 00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:48.299 mean right up until a very specific moment in 00:00:48.299 --> 00:00:52.659 the mid -1980s biology was silent it uh it just 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:54.899 Couldn't talk to the police. And that is exactly 00:00:54.899 --> 00:00:57.320 what we are digging into today. We aren't just 00:00:57.320 --> 00:00:59.859 looking at another true crime case. We are looking 00:00:59.859 --> 00:01:02.159 at the case. The one that started it all. The 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:06.359 big bang of modern forensics. The absolute pivot 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:09.519 point for the entire world, really, from, you 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:12.099 know, he said, she said, and circumstantial evidence, 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:15.879 too. Absolute scientific certainty. We are talking 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:18.079 about the Colin Pitchfork case. And it's massive. 00:01:18.180 --> 00:01:20.319 It's not an exaggeration to say that if you've 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.900 ever watched a police procedural like CSI. Any 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.939 of them. Any of them. Or if you followed a high 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:31.299 profile trial in the last, what, 30 years. You 00:01:31.299 --> 00:01:33.400 are looking at the ripple effects of what happened 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:35.840 in two tiny little villages in Leicestershire, 00:01:35.900 --> 00:01:37.819 England. But here's the thing, and this really 00:01:37.819 --> 00:01:39.859 surprised me when I was going through this stack 00:01:39.859 --> 00:01:42.579 of research for this deep dive. I knew the name 00:01:42.579 --> 00:01:44.920 Colin Pitchfork. Sure. It's famous in these circles. 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:48.239 Right. And I knew first DNA conviction. I sort 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:49.780 of thought that was the whole story. Yeah. A 00:01:49.780 --> 00:01:52.400 neat little package. Science wins. Exactly. Science 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.129 wins. Bad guy cut. Roll credits. Okay. But the 00:01:55.129 --> 00:01:58.709 actual timeline is so much messier and frankly, 00:01:58.890 --> 00:02:00.790 so much more terrifying. Oh, it's incredibly 00:02:00.790 --> 00:02:03.510 messy. It's not just a science story. It's this 00:02:03.510 --> 00:02:06.609 story about a master manipulator, a community 00:02:06.609 --> 00:02:10.090 living in just absolute terror and a justice 00:02:10.090 --> 00:02:13.389 system that almost, almost let the killer walk 00:02:13.389 --> 00:02:15.949 away after the science had already been invented. 00:02:16.460 --> 00:02:18.419 That's the absolute key to this whole thing. 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:20.680 The science was the tool, and it was a perfect 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:23.439 tool, but the application of it was flawed. How 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:25.879 so? Because it relied on people. And, you know, 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:28.560 people lie. People are afraid. People make huge 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:30.819 mistakes. And it's also worth pointing out, this 00:02:30.819 --> 00:02:32.740 isn't some piece of ancient history. I know we're 00:02:32.740 --> 00:02:35.560 talking about the 80s, but the final chapters 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:38.669 of this whole saga. I mean, the legal battles 00:02:38.669 --> 00:02:40.789 over Pitchfork's freedom were happening just 00:02:40.789 --> 00:02:42.650 a few months ago. That's right. We are recording 00:02:42.650 --> 00:02:45.889 this in February 2026. And the parole board was 00:02:45.889 --> 00:02:48.610 making decisions on this guy in October of 2025. 00:02:48.889 --> 00:02:51.349 It's a 40 year saga. It's just incredible. It 00:02:51.349 --> 00:02:54.030 really is. So, OK, let's get into it. Let's go 00:02:54.030 --> 00:02:55.469 all the way back to the beginning, because before 00:02:55.469 --> 00:02:57.169 we can even get to the murders, before we get 00:02:57.169 --> 00:02:59.650 to the labs and the DNA, we have to look at the 00:02:59.650 --> 00:03:01.710 man himself. The man at the center of it all. 00:03:01.909 --> 00:03:04.009 Because on paper, if you looked him up in the 00:03:04.009 --> 00:03:07.389 early 1980s. Colin Pitchfork doesn't look like 00:03:07.389 --> 00:03:10.069 a monster. He looks like, well, he looks like 00:03:10.069 --> 00:03:12.550 a baker. And that's the banality of evil, isn't 00:03:12.550 --> 00:03:16.550 it? He looked completely normal. Colin Pitchfork 00:03:16.550 --> 00:03:19.509 was born in March 1960. He grew up in a place 00:03:19.509 --> 00:03:22.710 called Newbold, Verdon. Okay. And if you were 00:03:22.710 --> 00:03:25.789 to pull his file from that time, I mean, it just 00:03:25.789 --> 00:03:29.949 screams model citizen. He was so deeply embedded 00:03:29.949 --> 00:03:32.189 in the scouting movement. And not just like... 00:03:32.409 --> 00:03:34.590 A casual memory. Oh, no, not at all. I don't 00:03:34.590 --> 00:03:36.090 mean he went camping once or twice. He was serious 00:03:36.090 --> 00:03:38.330 about it. He gained the Chief Scouts Award in 00:03:38.330 --> 00:03:40.909 1976. Which is a huge deal, right? It's a very 00:03:40.909 --> 00:03:43.629 big deal. It takes years of dedication. And get 00:03:43.629 --> 00:03:46.650 this. He was one of only four scouts in the entire 00:03:46.650 --> 00:03:49.389 county of Leicestershire chosen to attend the 00:03:49.389 --> 00:03:52.689 World Scout Jamboree in Norway. Wow. Four out 00:03:52.689 --> 00:03:54.289 of the whole county. The whole county. That's 00:03:54.289 --> 00:03:56.090 an honor. That's, you know, it's reserved for 00:03:56.090 --> 00:03:57.949 the most reliable, the most upstanding kids, 00:03:58.169 --> 00:04:00.629 the absolute cream of the crop. And his family 00:04:00.629 --> 00:04:03.740 was involved, too, wasn't it? deeply. His mother, 00:04:03.860 --> 00:04:07.039 Molly, was a group scout leader. So the entire 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:09.419 family identity was built around this idea of 00:04:09.419 --> 00:04:12.520 community service, discipline, wholesomeness, 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.919 all of it. So you have this golden boy image. 00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:19.439 He seems to be on the right track. He then gets 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:22.540 married in 1981. To a social worker, no less. 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:25.860 Which again, that signals caring. profession, 00:04:25.939 --> 00:04:28.680 right? A stable, community -minded life. It really 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.000 does. And they settle down in Little Thorpe, 00:04:31.019 --> 00:04:34.759 which is this quiet, picturesque English village. 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:36.639 The kind of place where nothing bad is supposed 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:39.540 to happen. Exactly. They have two kids, and he 00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:42.360 works at Hampshire's Bakery, a steady job. And 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.110 we should say he wasn't just... you know, an 00:04:44.110 --> 00:04:46.370 average worker there. No, and the details here 00:04:46.370 --> 00:04:48.790 are so telling. The reports all detail that he 00:04:48.790 --> 00:04:51.910 was a highly skilled sculptor of cake decorations. 00:04:52.269 --> 00:04:54.209 A sculptor. That's the word they use. That's 00:04:54.209 --> 00:04:56.569 the word. Piping these intricate little icing 00:04:56.569 --> 00:04:59.589 flowers, making delicate figures. It implies 00:04:59.589 --> 00:05:03.290 this high level of manual dexterity, of patience. 00:05:03.430 --> 00:05:05.430 Attention to detail. Tremendous attention to 00:05:05.430 --> 00:05:07.470 detail. He wasn't just mailing it in. He actually 00:05:07.470 --> 00:05:09.610 had dreams of starting his own business one day. 00:05:09.870 --> 00:05:12.649 So to his neighbors, to his wife's colleagues. 00:05:13.069 --> 00:05:15.689 to the community at large. He's this hardworking 00:05:15.689 --> 00:05:18.850 dad who makes beautiful cakes and probably knows 00:05:18.850 --> 00:05:21.370 how to tie, I don't know, a thousand different 00:05:21.370 --> 00:05:23.569 knots. The perfect neighbor, the guy you'd trust 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:26.370 with your house keys. But, and there's always 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:29.430 a but in these stories, that facade, that whole 00:05:29.430 --> 00:05:32.750 perfect image was actually extremely thin if 00:05:32.750 --> 00:05:34.889 you were paying attention. Very, very thin. Because 00:05:34.889 --> 00:05:36.990 while he's at work making these delicate, beautiful 00:05:36.990 --> 00:05:41.110 cakes, his behavior at the bakery was... Well, 00:05:41.149 --> 00:05:44.029 it was raising some red flags. His supervisor 00:05:44.029 --> 00:05:46.730 is quoted as calling him a good worker, but also 00:05:46.730 --> 00:05:49.759 moody. Moody. Okay. And specifically, he had 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.639 a reputation for pestering the female employees. 00:05:52.860 --> 00:05:55.319 Pestering is such a mild word for what it probably 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:58.040 was. It is. The source material says, and this 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:00.540 is a direct quote, he couldn't leave women employees 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:02.699 alone. He was constantly pushing boundaries. 00:06:03.060 --> 00:06:04.899 And this is where we really have to stop looking 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:07.660 at the family man image and just look at the 00:06:07.660 --> 00:06:10.279 clinical reality. Because before he was even 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:14.500 married, these cracks were already showing. Big 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:18.209 ones. Oh, yeah. This wasn't a sudden snap. In 00:06:18.209 --> 00:06:22.370 1977, when he was just 17 years old, he was fined 00:06:22.370 --> 00:06:24.930 for indecent exposure. He exposed himself to 00:06:24.930 --> 00:06:27.449 a schoolgirl. A schoolgirl. And then it happened 00:06:27.449 --> 00:06:30.170 again in 1980, this time to a group of teenage 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:33.410 girls in a town called Earl Shulton. He was actually 00:06:33.410 --> 00:06:35.649 referred for therapy at Carlton Hayes Hospital 00:06:35.649 --> 00:06:37.889 for this. Okay, I want to pause here because 00:06:37.889 --> 00:06:41.069 I think, you know, we often dismiss indecent 00:06:41.069 --> 00:06:43.769 exposure. We hear that and we think of it as, 00:06:43.910 --> 00:06:46.879 I don't know. A nuisance crime. Right. A creepy 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.730 guy in a trench coat who's maybe. Harmless, but 00:06:49.730 --> 00:06:53.110 just gross. Exactly. But when I read the transcripts 00:06:53.110 --> 00:06:55.529 of his later confessions, the sheer scale of 00:06:55.529 --> 00:06:57.970 this behavior just blew my mind. He didn't just 00:06:57.970 --> 00:06:59.910 do this a couple of times. No, he wasn't just 00:06:59.910 --> 00:07:02.529 experimenting. He admitted, in his own words, 00:07:02.569 --> 00:07:05.250 exposing himself to more than 1 ,000 women. A 00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:08.069 thousand. I mean, that's not even believable. 00:07:08.290 --> 00:07:10.089 A thousand. Starting when he was a teenager. 00:07:10.329 --> 00:07:12.550 Just stop and think about the logistics of that. 00:07:12.589 --> 00:07:14.930 The time commitment. The planning. It was a compulsion. 00:07:15.089 --> 00:07:17.490 It was a second life. It was a predatory campaign. 00:07:17.730 --> 00:07:20.079 A thousand. and victims is not a prank. It's 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.560 not a phase. That is a pathology. And yet he's 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:26.000 still functioning in his other life. He's winning 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.899 scout awards while he's doing this. He's getting 00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:30.540 married while he's doing this. It's this terrifying 00:07:30.540 --> 00:07:33.560 ability to just compartmentalize his life into 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:36.519 these two separate boxes. It's the absolute hallmark 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:38.839 of his psychology. He could perfectly separate 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.079 the baker from Little Thorpe from the predator. 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:45.079 Yeah. But the problem with that kind of compulsion, 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:49.709 especially with sexual deviancy, is that It rarely 00:07:49.709 --> 00:07:53.529 stays static. The thrill of just exposure, it 00:07:53.529 --> 00:07:55.509 wears off. The shock value isn't enough anymore. 00:07:55.730 --> 00:07:57.790 It's not enough. You need more power. You need 00:07:57.790 --> 00:08:01.050 more control. And that is what always leads to 00:08:01.050 --> 00:08:03.370 escalation. And that escalation takes us to November 00:08:03.370 --> 00:08:07.529 21st, 1983. And this is where the story shifts 00:08:07.529 --> 00:08:11.250 from, you know, creepy local guy to a tragedy 00:08:11.250 --> 00:08:13.709 that absolutely breaks a community. We need to 00:08:13.709 --> 00:08:16.220 talk about Linda Mann. Linda was just 15 years 00:08:16.220 --> 00:08:19.199 old, a normal, happy teenager living in the village 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:21.279 of Narborough. Right next to Little Fork, where 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:23.319 Pitchfork lived. Exactly. It was November, so 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:25.480 it gets dark really early in England. She had 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:28.019 been babysitting. Which is just the most relatable 00:08:28.019 --> 00:08:30.279 teenage thing in the world. Earning a bit of 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.240 pocket money. It is. She's walking home. And 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.940 she decides to take a shortcut. Now, local geography 00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:37.799 is really important here to understand this. 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.320 She took a path that was known locally as the 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:44.320 Black Pad. Even the name just sounds ominous, 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.500 doesn't it? It really does. It's a deserted footpath 00:08:46.500 --> 00:08:48.779 that cuts through the area. You know the kind 00:08:48.779 --> 00:08:50.899 of place, it's convenient during the day, but 00:08:50.899 --> 00:08:54.220 completely isolated and unlit at night. And she 00:08:54.220 --> 00:08:56.179 never made it home. She never made it home. Her 00:08:56.179 --> 00:08:58.460 body was found the next day. The details of the 00:08:58.460 --> 00:09:01.539 attack are, they're brutal. And I don't want 00:09:01.539 --> 00:09:04.039 to be gratuitous here. Yeah. But we have to understand 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.120 what happened to understand the investigation 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.679 that followed. You do. She was raped and she 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:11.169 was strangled. So the police arrive, they secure 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:13.110 the scene, they do all the things they're supposed 00:09:13.110 --> 00:09:16.490 to do, they collect evidence, but this is 1983. 00:09:17.509 --> 00:09:20.429 So what did forensic evidence even look like 00:09:20.429 --> 00:09:23.110 back then? It was, compared to today, incredibly 00:09:23.110 --> 00:09:25.970 primitive. They did find a semen sample on her 00:09:25.970 --> 00:09:29.090 body. Okay, so in 2026, that's game over. Instantly. 00:09:29.149 --> 00:09:31.330 You run it through a database, you get a name. 00:09:31.649 --> 00:09:35.850 Done. But in 1983? In 1983, the best they could 00:09:35.850 --> 00:09:39.919 do was serology, basically, blood typing. They 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:42.379 analyzed the sample and they found it came from 00:09:42.379 --> 00:09:44.960 a man with type A blood and a specific enzyme 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:49.600 profile. PGM1 plus UMNO for the experts out there. 00:09:49.720 --> 00:09:52.240 Okay, so help me understand that. How specific 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:53.919 is that profile? Is that like a fingerprint? 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:56.679 Not even close. Think of it like describing a 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:58.919 car. The police could say, okay, we are looking 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.980 for a man who drives a red Ford Fiesta. Right. 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.419 Now, that helps. It rules out all the guys driving 00:10:04.419 --> 00:10:07.080 blue trucks or silver motorcycles. But do you 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.700 have any idea how many red Ford Fiestas are on 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:12.179 the road? Thousands. Tens of thousands. Exactly. 00:10:12.220 --> 00:10:14.799 In this case, the blood type and that specific 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:17.519 enzyme profile matched about 10 % of the entire 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:20.899 British male population. 10%. 10%. So in a cluster 00:10:20.899 --> 00:10:23.519 of villages with a few thousand men, you're still 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:25.789 talking about... hundreds, maybe even a thousand 00:10:25.789 --> 00:10:27.769 potential suspects. It wasn't an identifier. 00:10:28.029 --> 00:10:30.029 It was just a category. So they have this Red 00:10:30.029 --> 00:10:31.990 Ford Fiesta description, but they have no idea 00:10:31.990 --> 00:10:35.210 how to find the specific driver. None. They interviewed 00:10:35.210 --> 00:10:37.370 people. They checked alibis, but they had nothing 00:10:37.370 --> 00:10:41.720 solid to go on. And the case. It just stops. 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:45.159 It goes cold. Ice cold. For three years. I just 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.019 want to linger on that gap for a second because 00:10:47.019 --> 00:10:49.519 when we read these summaries, it just says 1983 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:53.460 Linda Mann died, 1986 Dawn Ashworth died. Like 00:10:53.460 --> 00:10:55.500 it's just a data point on a timeline. Right, 00:10:55.580 --> 00:10:58.600 just a sentence. But in reality, that is three 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:01.399 full years. That's a thousand days of parents 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.970 in Narborough locking their doors tighter. Three 00:11:03.970 --> 00:11:06.370 years of teenagers being told never, ever to 00:11:06.370 --> 00:11:08.590 walk alone. And three years of Colin Pitchfork 00:11:08.590 --> 00:11:11.409 walking among them. Living his life, baking his 00:11:11.409 --> 00:11:14.330 cakes, raising his own kids, going to the pub. 00:11:14.470 --> 00:11:16.769 But he wasn't dormant. And this is the part of 00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:18.450 the timeline that often gets skipped over, but 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:20.950 it's absolutely vital for understanding his psychology. 00:11:21.269 --> 00:11:23.509 He didn't just stop and then start again. He 00:11:23.509 --> 00:11:26.289 was testing the waters. He was active. Right, 00:11:26.350 --> 00:11:29.490 the interim attacks. In October 1985, so that's 00:11:29.490 --> 00:11:31.830 two years after killing Linda, he attacked another 00:11:31.830 --> 00:11:35.080 16 -year -old girl. This time he used a screwdriver 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:37.879 and a knife. And she survived. She survived. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.139 He assaulted her, but she survived. But the incident 00:11:41.139 --> 00:11:43.200 that really truly reveals the twisted nature 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.860 of his mind happened in June of 1986. The victim 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:49.980 was a woman named Liz Knight. I have to be honest, 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:52.480 reading the police report on the Liz Knight incident, 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:57.100 it made me feel physically sick. And it wasn't 00:11:57.100 --> 00:11:58.840 even the violence of it. It was the psychological 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:02.679 torture. It was pure calculated sadism. He picks 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:04.940 her up in his car. She accepted a lift, which 00:12:04.940 --> 00:12:07.659 people did back then. Sure. He then drives around 00:12:07.659 --> 00:12:09.600 for 40 minutes. She starts to realize something 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:11.860 is terribly wrong. He's not going where he said 00:12:11.860 --> 00:12:14.639 he would. She's in trouble. In a moment of panic, 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:16.539 she grabs the steering wheel to try and crash 00:12:16.539 --> 00:12:19.120 the car or just force him to stop. And his reaction 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:22.070 is just. Not what you'd expect. Not at all. His 00:12:22.070 --> 00:12:24.529 entire demeanor changes. He doesn't hit her. 00:12:24.649 --> 00:12:27.649 He doesn't scream at her. He becomes calm. He 00:12:27.649 --> 00:12:29.509 puts his hand on her knee. He puts his hand on 00:12:29.509 --> 00:12:31.169 her knee and says so calmly, it's terrifying. 00:12:31.590 --> 00:12:33.909 I haven't hurt you yet. It's so manipulative. 00:12:33.970 --> 00:12:36.309 The yet is doing all the work there. It's pure 00:12:36.309 --> 00:12:39.629 control. He's saying, I have the power of life 00:12:39.629 --> 00:12:41.470 and death over you right now, and I am choosing 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:45.899 to let you live for now. It's a game to him. 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:48.059 And then he drives her home. He eventually drives 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:50.139 her home. But then, after all this, he has the 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:53.240 audacity to ask for a goodnight kiss. No. After 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:55.899 kidnapping and terrorizing her. Yes. And when 00:12:55.899 --> 00:12:59.759 she, obviously terrified, refuses, he says to 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.139 her, I bet you would never accept a lift from 00:13:02.139 --> 00:13:04.179 a stranger again. He's teaching her a lesson. 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:06.600 He's teaching her a lesson. He was getting off 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:08.919 on the fear he could instill. He was playing 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:11.559 God with her safety. It shows that he wasn't 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:13.899 just acting on some, you know, uncontrollable 00:13:13.899 --> 00:13:16.299 animal impulse. He was enjoying the game. He 00:13:16.299 --> 00:13:18.799 was savoring it. But the game turned deadly again 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:23.649 just one month later, July 31st, 1986. Dawn Ashworth. 00:13:23.769 --> 00:13:25.730 And the parallels to the first murder were just 00:13:25.730 --> 00:13:29.029 horrifying. Dawn was 15, just like Linda. Both 00:13:29.029 --> 00:13:30.909 students at the same school, Brockington High 00:13:30.909 --> 00:13:33.250 School. Both taking a shortcut. This time it 00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:35.169 was near a place called Ten Pound Lane. Another 00:13:35.169 --> 00:13:38.470 one of those isolated footpaths. Exactly. And 00:13:38.470 --> 00:13:41.929 the attack was savage. Raped, brutally beaten, 00:13:41.990 --> 00:13:44.450 and strangled. When the police arrived at the 00:13:44.450 --> 00:13:46.769 scene, the modus operandi, the method of the 00:13:46.769 --> 00:13:49.750 kill, was identical to the Linda Mann case three 00:13:49.750 --> 00:13:52.299 years prior. And the forensics. Tell me the forensics 00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:54.679 matched. They did. The semen sample came back 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.440 from the lab. Type A blood, same PGM1 plus enzyme 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.279 profile. The Redford Fiesta. The Redford Fiesta 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:04.779 was back. The police knew instantly the monster 00:14:04.779 --> 00:14:07.659 is back. Or, more accurately, he never left. 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.139 You have to imagine the atmosphere in that community. 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.899 Two dead girls, same age, same school, killed 00:14:13.899 --> 00:14:16.559 in the same way, on footpaths within a few miles 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.799 of each other. The panic must have been absolute. 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.460 It was fever pitch. You had parents refusing 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:23.139 to let their kids out of their sight. You had 00:14:23.139 --> 00:14:25.340 this vigilante feeling bubbling up under the 00:14:25.340 --> 00:14:27.840 surface. And you had immense corporate pressure 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.080 on the police. Right, because Dawn's mother worked 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:32.279 at Nexplike, the big closing retailer. She did. 00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:34.779 And the chief executive, a man named George Davies, 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.960 put up a 10 ,000 pound reward for information. 00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:40.149 I was a lot of money in 1986. A huge amount of 00:14:40.149 --> 00:14:43.049 money. The police were under unimaginable pressure 00:14:43.049 --> 00:14:45.929 to catch this guy before he killed a third time. 00:14:46.110 --> 00:14:48.389 And usually when the police are under that kind 00:14:48.389 --> 00:14:51.889 of intense pressure, they find a suspect. They 00:14:51.889 --> 00:14:55.169 need a suspect. They do. Enter Richard Buckland. 00:14:55.450 --> 00:14:58.230 Richard Buckland was unfortunately the perfect 00:14:58.230 --> 00:15:01.450 scapegoat. He really was. He was a local 17 year 00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:03.769 old kid. He had some learning difficulties. He 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:06.129 was already known to the police for, you know, 00:15:06.129 --> 00:15:09.179 minor things. And crucially. During questioning, 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:11.940 he revealed details about Dawn Ashworth's body. 00:15:12.100 --> 00:15:13.980 He did. He knew where she was found. He knew 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:16.139 about some of her injuries. Details that the 00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:17.899 police had not released to the public. And that's 00:15:17.899 --> 00:15:19.679 usually the smoking gun, isn't the thing they 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:21.679 say in court? Yeah. Only the killer would know 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:24.620 this. Usually, yes. But with someone like Richard 00:15:24.620 --> 00:15:27.580 Buckland, who is suggestible, eager to please 00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:30.830 authority figures, it's complicated. He might 00:15:30.830 --> 00:15:32.889 have seen something or maybe he just overheard 00:15:32.889 --> 00:15:35.090 rumors and repeated them as fact. We don't know. 00:15:35.230 --> 00:15:38.289 But the police drilled him. For days. And eventually 00:15:38.289 --> 00:15:41.470 he broke. He confessed. He admitted to killing 00:15:41.470 --> 00:15:43.950 Don Ashworth. He did. He signed the confession. 00:15:44.429 --> 00:15:47.350 But, and this is the snag that bothered the detectives, 00:15:47.409 --> 00:15:50.690 he vehemently denied killing Linda Mann. Which 00:15:50.690 --> 00:15:53.070 didn't make any sense to the police, right? Because 00:15:53.070 --> 00:15:56.669 their Red Ford Fiesta. evidence the blood type 00:15:56.669 --> 00:15:58.970 the enzyme said it had to be the same guy exactly 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:01.629 the police were convinced buckland did both their 00:16:01.629 --> 00:16:04.549 theory was okay he's admitting to the recent 00:16:04.549 --> 00:16:06.950 one because he's cornered but he's blocking out 00:16:06.950 --> 00:16:09.110 the memory of the one from three years ago so 00:16:09.110 --> 00:16:11.590 they needed a way to scientifically link him 00:16:11.590 --> 00:16:13.610 to that first murder yeah they needed something 00:16:13.610 --> 00:16:16.210 better than just blood types they needed a miracle 00:16:16.990 --> 00:16:19.129 And that brings us to the University of Leicester. 00:16:19.289 --> 00:16:21.610 Just a few miles away from where all this horror 00:16:21.610 --> 00:16:23.970 was unfolding, there's a guy in a lab coat who 00:16:23.970 --> 00:16:26.610 has absolutely no idea he's about to change the 00:16:26.610 --> 00:16:29.889 world forever. Alec Jeffries. Dr. Alec Jeffries. 00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:32.330 He was a geneticist, and he was studying inherited 00:16:32.330 --> 00:16:35.649 variations in DNA. He wasn't looking for a crime 00:16:35.649 --> 00:16:37.809 -fighting tool at all. So what was he doing? 00:16:37.970 --> 00:16:40.389 He was trying to track genetic markers for things 00:16:40.389 --> 00:16:43.269 like paternity tests or solving immigration disputes, 00:16:43.529 --> 00:16:45.870 you know, proving family relationships. Okay, 00:16:45.929 --> 00:16:48.309 so a totally different field. What was the eureka 00:16:48.309 --> 00:16:50.129 moment then? It was actually pretty mundane, 00:16:50.309 --> 00:16:53.409 which is how great science so often works. It 00:16:53.409 --> 00:16:57.399 was September 10, 1984. He was in a dark room 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:00.519 looking at an X -ray film of some DNA experiments 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:02.740 he'd been running. Right. And he noticed that 00:17:02.740 --> 00:17:05.180 there were these patterns in the DNA, regions 00:17:05.180 --> 00:17:08.480 of DNA that repeated over and over. They're technically 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.960 called variable number tandem repeats or VNTRs. 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:16.180 Okay. Let's keep it simple. Let's. Think of it 00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:18.240 like a barcode. You know, the kind you see on 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.450 a can of soup at the supermarket? Sure. Every 00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:22.809 single person on the planet has a unique barcode 00:17:22.809 --> 00:17:26.230 in their DNA inherited from their parents. Jeffries 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:28.309 looked at this X -ray film and had this setting 00:17:28.309 --> 00:17:31.289 realization. Wait a minute. I can distinguish 00:17:31.289 --> 00:17:33.630 one individual from another just by looking at 00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:35.869 this pattern. It wasn't just a category like 00:17:35.869 --> 00:17:38.890 blood type. It was absolute one of a kind identification. 00:17:39.049 --> 00:17:41.589 So the police hear about this newfangled DNA 00:17:41.589 --> 00:17:43.849 fingerprinting and they think, great, this is 00:17:43.849 --> 00:17:46.470 our miracle. Let's use this to nail Richard Buckland 00:17:46.470 --> 00:17:48.529 for the Linda Mann murder. That was the plan. 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.220 They approached Jeffries. They gave him the semen 00:17:52.220 --> 00:17:54.680 samples from both crime scenes and they gave 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:57.519 him a vial of blood from Richard Buckland. They 00:17:57.519 --> 00:17:59.160 were expecting Jeffries to come back and say, 00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:02.000 yes, the barcodes match. Buckland killed both 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.019 girls. Case closed. And what did he say? He ran 00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:07.599 the test. He developed the film. He looked at 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.160 the barcodes and he gave the police the absolute 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.180 shock of their lives. OK. He said the semen samples 00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:18.259 from the two girls have identical DNA. So, yes, 00:18:18.339 --> 00:18:20.519 one man killed both of them. OK, so that part's 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.400 confirmed. But he said that man is not Richard 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.400 Buckland. Wait, pause. The guy who confessed? 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:28.759 The guy who confessed. The guy who knew details 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:30.880 about the body. The guy who was sitting in a 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.119 police cell ready to be charged with two murders 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.019 was innocent. The DNA proved it definitively. 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.759 This is such a pivotal moment. I mean, the first 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.240 ever use of DNA in a murder investigation wasn't 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.599 to catch a bad guy. It was to save an innocent 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.180 one. It's incredible. Without Alec Jeffries and 00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:51.059 that x -ray film, Richard Buckland goes to prison 00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:53.539 for life. He would have been branded a monster. 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:56.619 He likely would have died in prison. The science 00:18:56.619 --> 00:19:00.079 saved him. It proved beyond any doubt that his 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.240 confession was false, a product of pressure and 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.559 confusion and his own vulnerability. So on one 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.940 hand, this is a massive triumph for justice. 00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:12.369 An innocent man walks free. But on the other 00:19:12.369 --> 00:19:14.269 hand, the Leicestershire police are back to square 00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:16.750 one. Actually, they are worse than square one. 00:19:16.809 --> 00:19:19.109 Now they have no suspect at all, and they know 00:19:19.109 --> 00:19:21.430 for a fact that their killer is still out there 00:19:21.430 --> 00:19:23.930 walking around. And they now know their only 00:19:23.930 --> 00:19:27.049 lead, the Redford Fiesta profile, it's basically 00:19:27.049 --> 00:19:29.109 useless. They were desperate. They knew the killer 00:19:29.109 --> 00:19:31.150 had to be a local man. The geography of the crimes, 00:19:31.269 --> 00:19:33.589 the footpaths, it all screamed local knowledge. 00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:35.869 So they decided to do something that had never, 00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:38.410 ever been done in the history of policing. Oh, 00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:40.609 blotting. That's what the press called it. The 00:19:40.609 --> 00:19:54.369 police made an That's right. Just think about 00:19:54.369 --> 00:19:56.930 the logistics of that for a second. This is early 00:19:56.930 --> 00:20:00.390 1987. There are no laptops to check people in. 00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:03.170 There are no digital databases. This is all being 00:20:03.170 --> 00:20:06.069 done with index cards, clipboards and thousands 00:20:06.069 --> 00:20:08.970 of vials of blood. It was a massive, massive 00:20:08.970 --> 00:20:11.950 bureaucratic operation. They set up these temporary 00:20:11.950 --> 00:20:14.690 testing centers in school halls and community 00:20:14.690 --> 00:20:17.369 centers. They sent out letters to every household 00:20:17.369 --> 00:20:19.789 and they relied on the electoral roll to make 00:20:19.789 --> 00:20:22.529 lists of who should be showing up. But it was 00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:24.960 voluntary, right? Yeah. I mean, legally, they 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:26.900 couldn't force you to give blood. Legally, no. 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:28.960 Technically, it was voluntary. You could say 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.700 no. But this is where the police played an absolute 00:20:31.700 --> 00:20:34.259 masterstroke of sociology. Wait a minute. They 00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:37.880 weaponized the community gossip mill. Huh. Think 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.220 about it. If you lived in Little Thorpe in 1987 00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:42.940 and you were a 25 -year -old man and you didn't 00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:44.599 go down to the village hall to give your blood 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.440 sample, everyone knew. Your neighbors would notice. 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.359 Your neighbors saw you weren't there. Your boss 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.150 at work asked why you hadn't gone yet. If you 00:20:53.150 --> 00:20:55.390 refused, the police put you at the very, very 00:20:55.390 --> 00:20:57.450 top of their suspect list. So they'd come knocking. 00:20:57.650 --> 00:21:00.289 They would interview you. They'd scrutinize you. 00:21:00.430 --> 00:21:02.769 They would check your alibis for the nights of 00:21:02.769 --> 00:21:05.630 the murders with a fine -toothed comb. It was 00:21:05.630 --> 00:21:08.950 a process of elimination by social ostracization. 00:21:09.509 --> 00:21:12.210 You bleed or you're the killer. That was the 00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:16.809 message, exactly. And by January 1987, thousands 00:21:16.809 --> 00:21:19.619 of men were lining up. rolling up their sleeves 00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:22.079 to prove their innocence. Now, put yourself in 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.380 Colin Pitchfork's shoes for a minute. You are 00:21:24.380 --> 00:21:26.579 the killer. You are living in Little Thorpe. 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:28.460 You fit the age profile perfectly. You get that 00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:30.559 letter through your door. It is the ultimate 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:33.079 nightmare scenario for him. He knows the science 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:35.160 works. He's read in the papers how it cleared 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.619 Richard Buckland. He knows that if he gives his 00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:39.839 blood, the barcode will match, and he will go 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.180 to prison for the rest of his life. But he also 00:21:42.180 --> 00:21:44.700 knows that if he refuses, the police will be 00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.329 on his doorstep in a heartbeat. And remember, 00:21:47.609 --> 00:21:51.089 he has a record for indecent exposure. He is 00:21:51.089 --> 00:21:53.710 already the perfect kind of suspect they'd be 00:21:53.710 --> 00:21:56.089 looking for. If they look at him closely, even 00:21:56.089 --> 00:21:58.390 for a second, they'll get him. It's a total catch 00:21:58.390 --> 00:22:01.559 -22. Yeah. Bleed and you get caught. Don't bleed 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:03.519 and you get caught. So he realized he couldn't 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:05.880 play by the rules. He had to cheat. He had to 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.859 find a way to make it look like he gave blood 00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.480 without actually giving his own. And this is 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.940 where the whole criminal mastermind idea just 00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:15.319 falls apart, isn't it? He doesn't hack a database. 00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:17.799 He doesn't break into the lab and switch samples. 00:22:18.019 --> 00:22:21.819 No. His grand, brilliant plan is to ask a buddy 00:22:21.819 --> 00:22:24.700 at work for a favor. Ian Kelly. A guy he worked 00:22:24.700 --> 00:22:27.140 with at Hampshire's Bakery. That's him. And Pitchfork 00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:29.980 starts grooming him. He concocts this elaborate 00:22:29.980 --> 00:22:32.740 sob story. What does he tell him? He tells Kelly, 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:34.660 look, I can't take this blood test. When I was 00:22:34.660 --> 00:22:36.440 a kid, I got in some trouble for flashing. It 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:38.920 was stupid. I was young. Downplaying it. Massively 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:40.880 downplaying it. He says, if I go down there, 00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:43.160 the police are going to drag all that up. They'll 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:45.440 harass me. They'll harass my wife. I'm a family 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.440 man now. I'm trying to move on from that. I just 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.160 want to avoid all the hassle. He plays the victim. 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.900 He plays the victim perfectly. And then he sweetens 00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:56.819 the deal. He offers Ian Kelly 200 pounds. Which 00:22:56.819 --> 00:23:01.200 is, what, about 600 or 700 pounds in today's 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.799 money? Roughly, yeah. For a bakery worker in 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:06.140 the 80s, that's a significant amount of cash. 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:07.920 It's enough to make you think, well, it's just 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.339 a blood test. It's a bit dodgy, but I'm helping 00:23:10.339 --> 00:23:13.160 a mate avoid some unfair police harassment. That's 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.039 exactly the calculation Kelly made. So the plan 00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:18.680 is hatched. Ian Kelly will go to the testing 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.220 center, but he will pretend to be Colin Pitchfork. 00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:24.700 And unbelievably, it worked. On January 29th, 00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:27.759 1987, Ian Kelly walked into the testing center. 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.819 Now you might be wondering, how did he prove 00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:32.180 he was Pitchfork? Weren't there ID checks? Yeah, 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:34.039 that's what I was thinking. The ID checks were 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:37.420 incredibly lax. He used a passport that had been 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:40.420 manipulated. It had Pitchfork's details. But 00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:42.859 the photo was either swapped or just not checked 00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:45.019 closely enough by the person at the desk. So 00:23:45.019 --> 00:23:48.200 he just sits down and says, I am Colin Pitchfork. 00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:50.799 And they took his blood. No questions asked. 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:53.759 And obviously, Ian Kelly isn't the killer. So 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.519 his blood goes to the lab, the home office lab 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.920 tests it, and the DNA comes back clean. It doesn't 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:02.200 match the crime scene samples. And just like 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:04.740 that, Colin Pitchfork was officially eliminated 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:07.599 from the inquiry. The dragnet, the blooding, 00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:10.380 this revolutionary science. It all missed him. 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:12.240 He had slipped right through the net. He had. 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.059 He beat the system. That is absolutely terrifying. 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:17.500 He beat the system. The science itself was perfect, 00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:20.119 but the chain of custody, the basic human honesty 00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:22.420 required to make the science work, it failed 00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:24.259 completely. He could have gotten away with it. 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:26.880 He really, really could have. By this point, 00:24:26.900 --> 00:24:29.359 the police had tested over 5 ,000 men. They were 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:31.059 running out of leads and running out of money. 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:33.660 The trail was going cold again. If Pitchfork 00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:36.380 just keeps his mouth shut, and if Ian Kelly keeps 00:24:36.380 --> 00:24:39.640 his mouth shut, This case stays cold forever. 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.299 But secrets are hard to keep. Especially after 00:24:43.299 --> 00:24:45.579 you've had a few pints at the pub. Especially 00:24:45.579 --> 00:24:49.619 then. August 1st, 1987. It's a Saturday night. 00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:52.400 We're at the Clarendon Pub in Leicester. Okay, 00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:54.779 set the scene for me. It's just a casual workout. 00:24:54.859 --> 00:24:56.980 Ian Kelly is there with a bunch of other staff 00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:59.500 from the bakery. The drinks are flowing. And 00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:01.400 maybe the guilt is eating at him a little, or 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:03.440 maybe he just wants to brag about the easiest 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.019 200 pounds he ever made. Right. But he starts 00:25:06.019 --> 00:25:08.180 talking. He just casually mentions to the group 00:25:08.180 --> 00:25:09.880 that he went and gave a blood sample for his 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:13.289 mate Colin. He just says it. Out loud. Oh, yeah. 00:25:13.329 --> 00:25:15.130 By the way, I took the murder test for Pitchfork. 00:25:15.210 --> 00:25:17.490 Pretty much just like that. Yeah. But sitting 00:25:17.490 --> 00:25:19.609 at that table is a woman named Jackie Foggin. 00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:22.529 She also works at the bakery. And she overhears 00:25:22.529 --> 00:25:24.269 this. Now, this is another one of those moments 00:25:24.269 --> 00:25:27.630 where human nature gets really complicated. If 00:25:27.630 --> 00:25:29.650 I heard that, I'd like to think I would run to 00:25:29.650 --> 00:25:31.990 the nearest phone box and call 999 immediately. 00:25:32.509 --> 00:25:34.910 You'd like to think that. Everyone would. Hey, 00:25:34.970 --> 00:25:37.410 someone cheated the murder test. But Jackie didn't 00:25:37.410 --> 00:25:40.130 do that. She sat on that information. For how 00:25:40.130 --> 00:25:43.599 long? Six weeks. The conversation in the pub 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:46.099 was on August 1st. She didn't go to the police 00:25:46.099 --> 00:25:49.880 until September 18th. Why? Why would you wait 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.259 six weeks while a child killer is still walking 00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:54.400 the streets? I think it's the bystander effect. 00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:58.240 It's fear. Imagine her internal monologue. Did 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:01.720 he really mean that? Was he just joking? If I 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:03.819 report this, am I going to get a colleague in 00:26:03.819 --> 00:26:06.720 serious trouble for nothing? Will the police 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.740 even believe me? You don't want to be the one 00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:12.220 to get involved. It's a huge, huge step to deliberately 00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:14.500 insert yourself into a double murder investigation. 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.140 But clearly it ate away at her. She couldn't 00:26:17.140 --> 00:26:19.259 live with it. And finally she spoke up. She calls 00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:22.000 the police. And that one phone call brings the 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:24.640 whole house of cards crashing down. Immediately. 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:27.799 The police grabbed Ian Kelly. He crumbled instantly 00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:30.200 and admitted exactly what he did. He was later 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:32.079 sentenced for that, wasn't he? He was. He got 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.839 an 18 -month suspended sentence for perverting 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:36.779 the course of justice. And the very next day, 00:26:36.940 --> 00:26:40.519 September 19, 1987, Detective Inspector Mick 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:42.819 Thomas drove to Hay Barn Close in Littlethorpe. 00:26:42.940 --> 00:26:47.480 The door opens, and it's Colin Pitchfork. And 00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:50.740 he must have known the second he saw the detective 00:26:50.740 --> 00:26:53.109 standing there. He knew the game was over. There 00:26:53.109 --> 00:26:55.410 was no running. There was no more lying. The 00:26:55.410 --> 00:26:58.509 deception had completely unraveled. And the reality 00:26:58.509 --> 00:27:01.490 of his double life just crashed right into his 00:27:01.490 --> 00:27:05.000 living room. Did he try to deny it? No. In fact, 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.279 he confessed to his wife right there and then 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:09.559 with the police standing on his doorstep. Wait, 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.900 his wife was there for the arrest? She was. Can 00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:13.940 you even imagine that moment? You've been married 00:27:13.940 --> 00:27:15.859 to this man for six years. You have two children 00:27:15.859 --> 00:27:17.500 with him. You've slept beside him every night. 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.240 You know him as this moody baker who likes making 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:22.859 icing flowers. And suddenly the police are at 00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:25.019 the door and he turns to you and says, I killed 00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:27.970 them. Oh, my God. How does she react? The reports 00:27:27.970 --> 00:27:30.069 say she just attacked him. She physically went 00:27:30.069 --> 00:27:32.049 for him. And you can understand it. It's the 00:27:32.049 --> 00:27:35.650 betrayal, the horror, the sudden sickening realization 00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:38.549 that the monster was in your house the whole 00:27:38.549 --> 00:27:41.210 time. They take him to the station. And now, 00:27:41.309 --> 00:27:44.069 armed with the DNA knowledge and the story about 00:27:44.069 --> 00:27:46.690 the failed deception, they interrogate him. And 00:27:46.690 --> 00:27:49.950 he sings. He confesses to everything. The flashing, 00:27:50.130 --> 00:27:53.349 the assaults, the two murders. But even in his 00:27:53.349 --> 00:27:55.750 confession, we see that manipulative personality 00:27:55.750 --> 00:27:59.009 come out again. He tried to frame the murders 00:27:59.009 --> 00:28:02.630 as, you know, accidental or protective. Protective. 00:28:02.769 --> 00:28:05.569 Protective of who? Protective of himself. He 00:28:05.569 --> 00:28:07.890 claimed he only strangled the girls to protect 00:28:07.890 --> 00:28:10.309 his identity because they might recognize him 00:28:10.309 --> 00:28:12.430 from the flashing or the initial assault. He's 00:28:12.430 --> 00:28:14.779 trying to make it sound logical. Like a cold, 00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:17.400 calculated business decision. Exactly. I didn't 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:18.940 want to kill them, but I had to kill them to 00:28:18.940 --> 00:28:21.220 stop them from telling on me. But the detectives 00:28:21.220 --> 00:28:23.180 weren't buying that for a second. Not at all. 00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:25.079 They looked at the brutality of the injuries, 00:28:25.420 --> 00:28:28.380 the savage nature of the attacks. They cited 00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:31.680 perverted sadism. This wasn't about protecting 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:33.940 his identity. This was about the thrill of the 00:28:33.940 --> 00:28:37.019 kill. It was about power and control. And he 00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:38.819 lied during the interview, too, didn't he? He 00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:41.160 did. He lied about the level of violence, minimizing 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.140 what he did until the forensic... Evidence forced 00:28:44.140 --> 00:28:47.440 him to admit the full horrific truth. So January 00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:50.799 1988, he stands trial at Leicester Crown Court. 00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:54.299 He pleads guilty to all of it. Two murders, two 00:28:54.299 --> 00:28:57.579 rapes, two other sexual assaults, and the conspiracy 00:28:57.579 --> 00:29:00.240 to pervert the course of justice. And the judge, 00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:02.299 the Lord Chief Justice, he didn't hold back at 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:05.119 all in his sentencing. Not one bit. He sentenced 00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:08.099 him to life imprisonment. And he made a very 00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:10.500 specific recommendation from the bench. He said, 00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:17.859 and I'm quoting, Ever. Ever. He set a minimum 00:29:17.859 --> 00:29:20.660 tariff of 30 years, which was later reduced to 00:29:20.660 --> 00:29:25.700 28 on appeal in 2009. So 1988, he goes down, 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.619 the door slams shut, and usually... You know, 00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:31.480 that is where the episode would end. Bad guy 00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:33.599 is caught. The new science has proved right. 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.740 Justice is served. But Colin Pitchfork didn't 00:29:35.740 --> 00:29:38.019 just disappear into the prison system. His time 00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:39.740 in prison becomes this whole new controversy. 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:41.859 And this is where it gets ethically really messy. 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:44.960 It does. In prison, Pitchfork was formally diagnosed 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.400 with a psychopathic personality disorder and 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.140 serious psychosexual pathology. That's a heavy 00:29:50.140 --> 00:29:53.000 label. It's a very heavy label. It essentially 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.380 means his brain is wired for manipulation, for 00:29:56.380 --> 00:29:59.079 a profound lack of empathy. It's not something 00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:01.980 you can just cure with therapy. But he spent 00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:04.140 the next 30 years trying to prove everyone wrong, 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:06.339 trying to prove he had changed. He was, by all 00:30:06.339 --> 00:30:08.759 accounts, a model prisoner. He kept his head 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:11.259 down, caused no trouble, and he learned a new 00:30:11.259 --> 00:30:14.759 skill. A very difficult one. He became an expert 00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:17.380 at transcribing printed music into Braille for 00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:20.480 the blind. Which is incredibly intricate, difficult 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.960 work. It is. It requires intense concentration, 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.000 intelligence, and a dedication to helping others, 00:30:26.059 --> 00:30:28.740 ironically. He was, in a way, contributing to 00:30:28.740 --> 00:30:31.759 society from inside his cell. And then in 2009, 00:30:31.940 --> 00:30:34.640 he tried to branch out into art. Yes, the sculpture. 00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:36.619 He created this sculpture called Bringing the 00:30:36.619 --> 00:30:38.940 Music to Life. Yeah. It was made of paper, and 00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:41.700 it depicted a choir and an orchestra. And the 00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:43.900 Coastler Trust, which is a charity that champions 00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:46.819 art by prisoners, they exhibited it. At the Royal 00:30:46.819 --> 00:30:49.579 Festival Hall in London, a very prestigious venue. 00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:51.559 And someone actually bought it. It sold for 600 00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:53.779 pounds. And when the public and the media found 00:30:53.779 --> 00:30:56.930 out who the artist was. Explosive outrage. The 00:30:56.930 --> 00:31:00.269 headlines were furious. Child killer sells art 00:31:00.269 --> 00:31:03.650 for 600 pounds. The victim groups protested, 00:31:03.650 --> 00:31:05.910 understandably. They felt it was a complete slap 00:31:05.910 --> 00:31:07.930 in the face that he was getting accolades and 00:31:07.930 --> 00:31:10.490 money while Linda and Dawn were dead. The artwork 00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:12.230 was removed from the exhibition pretty quickly. 00:31:12.410 --> 00:31:14.910 It was. But it raises such a difficult question, 00:31:15.009 --> 00:31:17.549 though. If prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation 00:31:17.549 --> 00:31:20.170 and a prisoner learns a skill and makes something 00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:23.019 beautiful, shouldn't that be allowed? Or does 00:31:23.019 --> 00:31:25.900 the nature of his specific crime, the rape and 00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:29.640 murder of children, mean he forfeits the right 00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:32.680 to ever be seen as creative or redeemed in the 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.160 public eye? That's the core tension of his entire 00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.640 time in prison is the Braille transcriber and 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:40.180 the artist, the real Colin Pitchfork. Has he 00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:42.460 been cured or is that just another more sophisticated 00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:45.299 mess? Is he just sculpting cakes again, looking 00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:47.240 like a good citizen while the predator waits 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.660 underneath? Exactly. And that question isn't 00:31:49.660 --> 00:31:51.900 just a theoretical debate. It became very, very. 00:31:51.980 --> 00:31:53.980 real in the last 10 years as he became eligible 00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:56.700 for parole. And this has been a legal ping pong 00:31:56.700 --> 00:31:59.980 match that is honestly exhausting to try and 00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.759 track. It really has. It started around 2016. 00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:06.480 He applied for release. It was denied. But the 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.059 parole board did recommend moving him to an open 00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:12.059 prison, HMP Layhill. Can you explain what open 00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:14.200 prison means for those who don't know? An open 00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.220 prison is the lowest security category. There 00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:19.740 are no high walls, no locked cells for most of 00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:22.059 the day. You often have a key to your own room. 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:24.900 It's a step towards reintegration. It's the final 00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:28.319 step before freedom. You can go out on unsupervised 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.740 day release for work. to find housing it's designed 00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:33.880 to test if you're ready for the outside world 00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:36.180 and people saw him out and about right they did 00:32:36.910 --> 00:32:39.829 In November 2017, he was photographed shopping 00:32:39.829 --> 00:32:42.829 alone in Bristol. Just a guy in a coat looking 00:32:42.829 --> 00:32:45.230 at sandwiches in a supermarket. Imagine being 00:32:45.230 --> 00:32:47.150 another shopper standing next to him having no 00:32:47.150 --> 00:32:48.970 idea you are brushing shoulders with the black 00:32:48.970 --> 00:32:51.309 pad killer. So he's ticking all the boxes. He's 00:32:51.309 --> 00:32:54.329 behaving himself in the open prison. And finally, 00:32:54.390 --> 00:32:58.029 in June 2021, the decision comes down from the 00:32:58.029 --> 00:33:00.529 parole board. They granted his release. So on 00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:04.009 September 1st, 2021, Colin Pitchfork walks free. 00:33:04.450 --> 00:33:07.890 He is 61 years old. He has served 33 years in 00:33:07.890 --> 00:33:10.970 prison. He is out on license, which means very 00:33:10.970 --> 00:33:14.009 strict rules, a GPS tag, a curfew that works. 00:33:14.650 --> 00:33:17.069 But he is a free man. He is. And this is the 00:33:17.069 --> 00:33:19.049 moment where the whole rehabilitation argument 00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:21.769 gets put to the ultimate test. He claimed he 00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:24.230 was a changed man. The experts and psychologists 00:33:24.230 --> 00:33:26.529 said he was a low enough risk. And they were 00:33:26.529 --> 00:33:29.470 wrong. Spectacularly wrong. He was out for just 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.849 over two months. 79 days, to be exact. On November 00:33:32.849 --> 00:33:35.970 19th, 2021, he was recalled to prison. Police 00:33:35.970 --> 00:33:38.390 showed up at his bail hostel, grabbed him, and 00:33:38.390 --> 00:33:40.849 threw him back in a closed high security prison. 00:33:40.970 --> 00:33:43.210 Why? What did he do? Did he attack someone? He 00:33:43.210 --> 00:33:45.869 didn't attack anyone physically, no, but he breached 00:33:45.869 --> 00:33:48.269 his license conditions in a very specific and, 00:33:48.349 --> 00:33:50.829 frankly, chilling way. The official reason was 00:33:50.829 --> 00:33:52.690 that he was approaching young women while he 00:33:52.690 --> 00:33:54.809 was out on his state -sanctioned walks. Approaching 00:33:54.809 --> 00:33:56.789 young women? He was walking up to them, trying 00:33:56.789 --> 00:33:59.230 to engage them in conversation, testing their 00:33:59.230 --> 00:34:02.410 boundaries. The reports also said he was showing 00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:05.569 deceptive behavior with his probation supervisors, 00:34:05.970 --> 00:34:08.250 lying about where he'd been and what he'd been 00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:11.469 doing. So what does this all mean? To me, it 00:34:11.469 --> 00:34:13.789 just screams that the compulsion never went away. 00:34:13.909 --> 00:34:16.570 It never did. The model prisoner mask was back 00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:19.550 on, but the guy who needs to dominate and control 00:34:19.550 --> 00:34:22.230 women was still driving the car. It completely 00:34:22.230 --> 00:34:24.730 validated everything the original lead detective 00:34:24.730 --> 00:34:28.050 David Baker had said for decades. Baker always 00:34:28.050 --> 00:34:30.530 maintained that Pitchfork was a classic psychopath 00:34:30.530 --> 00:34:33.110 who could mimic normal behavior perfectly, but 00:34:33.110 --> 00:34:35.750 would never, ever actually be safe. He could 00:34:35.750 --> 00:34:38.010 learn the words, but not the music. That's a 00:34:38.010 --> 00:34:40.849 great way to put it. That recall in 2021 proved 00:34:40.849 --> 00:34:43.130 that the biology might age, but the underlying 00:34:43.130 --> 00:34:45.650 pathology remained exactly the same. But the 00:34:45.650 --> 00:34:48.610 system is so stubborn. Even after that catastrophic 00:34:48.610 --> 00:34:50.909 failure, they tried to release him again. It's 00:34:50.909 --> 00:34:54.210 unbelievable, isn't it? In June of 2023, a different 00:34:54.210 --> 00:34:56.409 parole board panel looked at his case and said, 00:34:56.489 --> 00:34:58.489 OK, he's learned his lesson. Let's try again. 00:34:58.750 --> 00:35:00.909 They approved his release for a second time. 00:35:01.050 --> 00:35:03.769 Are you kidding me? After he'd just proven he 00:35:03.769 --> 00:35:06.960 couldn't be trusted? No. But this time, there 00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.380 was such a public and political outcry that the 00:35:09.380 --> 00:35:12.099 government intervened. The Lord Chancellor at 00:35:12.099 --> 00:35:14.659 the time, Alex Chalk, stepped in and used a new 00:35:14.659 --> 00:35:17.139 power to block the release, saying it was not 00:35:17.139 --> 00:35:19.099 in the interest of justice. Thank goodness. The 00:35:19.099 --> 00:35:21.679 release was blocked. And then that brings us 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.599 right up to the present day, really. Late 2025. 00:35:24.860 --> 00:35:28.039 In October of 2025, just a few months ago, the 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:31.000 parole board reviewed his case yet again. And 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.159 this time. They finally denied him completely. 00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:36.320 They also refused his request to be moved back 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.480 to an open prison. So as we're talking, Colin 00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:42.619 Pitchfork remains in a closed, secure cell. He 00:35:42.619 --> 00:35:45.210 does. And the families of Linda Mann and Dawn 00:35:45.210 --> 00:35:48.210 Ashworth can, for now, breathe a little easier. 00:35:48.429 --> 00:35:50.929 It really feels like we dodged a bullet. Or rather, 00:35:51.190 --> 00:35:53.369 the women of whatever city he'd be living in 00:35:53.369 --> 00:35:56.610 dodged a bullet in 2023. We absolutely did. And 00:35:56.610 --> 00:35:58.949 it highlights the fundamental flaw in relying 00:35:58.949 --> 00:36:01.909 on data points like good behavior in prison to 00:36:01.909 --> 00:36:04.030 assess risk for someone like him. A psychopath 00:36:04.030 --> 00:36:06.280 is great at being a good prisoner. They're the 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:08.179 best at it. They know the rules. They know how 00:36:08.179 --> 00:36:10.159 to manipulate staff and psychologists to get 00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:11.900 what they want. It's what they do when the door 00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:14.119 opens and nobody is watching. That's the only 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:17.480 test that matters. And he failed it. Before we 00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:19.320 wrap this up, we have to talk about the legacy, 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.780 because this case is just horrific, but it also 00:36:22.780 --> 00:36:25.280 changed the world in a profound way. It's the 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.219 Big Bang. There's no other way to describe it. 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.300 Without the investigation into the murders of 00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:31.880 Linda Mann and Don Ashworth, we simply would 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:34.960 not have things like the National DNA Database. 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:38.099 And that database is solved? Oh, what? Thousands 00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:40.800 of crimes? Tens of thousands. Murders, rapes, 00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:44.019 cold cases. The Batman rapist, a serial predator 00:36:44.019 --> 00:36:46.860 in Bath who evaded capture for years, was caught 00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:50.280 because of a DNA link. The Benham murders, another 00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:59.539 cold case. The Joseph Wambaugh book, The Blooding, 00:36:59.579 --> 00:37:01.800 is a true crime classic. A brilliant book. And 00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.579 the TV show Code of a Killer, if you haven't 00:37:03.579 --> 00:37:06.219 seen it, you really should. John Sim plays Alec 00:37:06.219 --> 00:37:08.960 Jeffries, and David Threlfall is just amazing 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:12.000 as Detective Baker. It really shows that tension 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:14.659 between the clean, pure science in the lab and 00:37:14.659 --> 00:37:16.739 the gritty, messy police work on the ground. 00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:19.159 It's the reference point for everything that 00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:21.239 came after. Every time you see a headline today 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:24.000 about a killer being caught via genetic genealogy 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.940 on a family tree website, it traces its lineage 00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:29.420 directly back to that moment. Alec Jeffries looked 00:37:29.420 --> 00:37:32.280 at an X -ray film in a dark room and saw a barcode. 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.400 So, to summarize this whole 40 -year story, we 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.719 have a story of a baker who hid a monster inside 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:42.329 him. A scientist who accidentally found the key 00:37:42.329 --> 00:37:45.550 to human identity. A village that was first terrorized 00:37:45.550 --> 00:37:47.969 and then mobilized to help catch a killer. And 00:37:47.969 --> 00:37:50.650 a justice system that, four decades later, is 00:37:50.650 --> 00:37:52.269 still struggling to figure out what to do with 00:37:52.269 --> 00:37:54.510 a man who is biologically human but psychologically 00:37:54.510 --> 00:37:57.210 a predator. It's also a powerful reminder that 00:37:57.210 --> 00:38:00.150 technology, no matter how advanced, is only as 00:38:00.150 --> 00:38:02.409 good as the people who are running it. Absolutely, 00:38:02.630 --> 00:38:05.050 the DNA would have caught him, yes, but only 00:38:05.050 --> 00:38:07.869 because a woman in a pub, Jackie Foggin, finally 00:38:07.869 --> 00:38:10.719 found the courage to make that phone call. And 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:13.659 in 2021, the science couldn't predict his behavior 00:38:13.659 --> 00:38:16.860 on the outside. Only his own actions could reveal 00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:19.199 his true nature. That is the ultimate takeaway 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.300 for me. We can map the entire human genome. We 00:38:22.300 --> 00:38:25.280 can read the three billion letter code of life. 00:38:25.460 --> 00:38:28.099 But we still can't fully map the complexities 00:38:28.099 --> 00:38:30.940 of the human mind. We can't see the lie behind 00:38:30.940 --> 00:38:33.579 the smile or the monster hiding behind the good 00:38:33.579 --> 00:38:36.000 prisoner certificate. The map is not the territory. 00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:38.539 Exactly. Here is a final thought for you to carry 00:38:38.539 --> 00:38:41.880 with you today. The science of 1987 caught Colin 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.460 Pitchfork. But the bureaucratic parole system 00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:47.400 of 2021 almost let him loose to offend again. 00:38:47.739 --> 00:38:50.239 In an age where we have perfect forensic evidence, 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:53.219 AI profiling, and endless data, have we become 00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:55.880 too reliant on the numbers? Have we forgotten 00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:58.070 how to look at the behavior? Are we trusting 00:38:58.070 --> 00:39:00.010 the spreadsheet more than the reality of the 00:39:00.010 --> 00:39:02.010 human being standing right in front of us? It's 00:39:02.010 --> 00:39:04.289 a question every parole board, and frankly, every 00:39:04.289 --> 00:39:06.349 one of us who has to judge character, needs to 00:39:06.349 --> 00:39:08.530 ask themselves. Thank you for listening to this 00:39:08.530 --> 00:39:11.809 deep dive. Stay curious, stay vigilant, and we'll 00:39:11.809 --> 00:39:12.610 catch you on the next one.