WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.600 I want you to picture a street in Derby, England. 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:06.940 It's Victory Road. The date is May 11, 2012. 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:11.619 It's just before 4 .am. Now, if you know anything 00:00:11.619 --> 00:00:15.000 about the UK suburbs at that hour, you know it 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:17.859 is dead quiet. Absolutely silent. The streetlights 00:00:17.859 --> 00:00:20.399 are humming. Most of the city is fast asleep. 00:00:20.660 --> 00:00:23.460 But inside number 18, the air is starting to 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:26.719 change. It's getting hotter. And within... minutes, 00:00:26.780 --> 00:00:29.280 this ordinary council house is going to turn 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:31.940 into an absolute inferno. And that fire doesn't 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:34.719 just destroy a house. It triggers a chain of 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.179 events that exposes one of the darkest, most 00:00:37.179 --> 00:00:40.000 twisted family dynamics in British legal history. 00:00:40.179 --> 00:00:42.399 We are looking at the Philpott case today. And 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:43.640 I have to be honest with you, looking at this 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:45.619 stack of notes, I thought I knew this story. 00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:48.100 I really did. I remember the headlines. Shameless 00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:50.500 Mick. Oh, yeah. Everyone remembers Shameless 00:00:50.500 --> 00:00:53.359 Mick. He was a media caricature, a sort of folk 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:55.679 devil for a while. Exactly. The guy on the talk 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:58.070 shows. I thought it was a story about. You know, 00:00:58.090 --> 00:01:00.649 welfare fraud that went tragically wrong or maybe 00:01:00.649 --> 00:01:03.229 just a horrific accident involving a chaotic 00:01:03.229 --> 00:01:05.510 family. That's the narrative that stuck. But 00:01:05.510 --> 00:01:08.010 when you actually dig into these court transcripts, 00:01:08.010 --> 00:01:10.530 the psychological profiles you pulled and the 00:01:10.530 --> 00:01:13.170 history, I mean, a history dating back 40 years. 00:01:13.310 --> 00:01:16.370 This isn't a story about benefits. No, that's 00:01:16.370 --> 00:01:18.750 the distraction. That's the shiny object. The 00:01:18.750 --> 00:01:21.109 media and frankly, he himself waved around for 00:01:21.109 --> 00:01:23.530 everyone to look at. This is a story about a 00:01:23.530 --> 00:01:26.590 level of coercive control that is so extreme 00:01:26.590 --> 00:01:29.769 it's almost hard to believe it's real. We are 00:01:29.769 --> 00:01:33.450 talking about a man who ran a literal cult inside 00:01:33.450 --> 00:01:36.430 a three -bedroom semi -detached house. That is 00:01:36.430 --> 00:01:39.319 the key word, cult. The mission for this deep 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:41.560 dive is to strip away that tabloid caricature 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:43.739 we all remember. We need to get past the headlines. 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:45.640 Right. We need to understand the psychology of 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:48.159 McPhilpot, a man diagnosed with antisocial personality 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:50.900 disorder, and really try to understand how he 00:01:50.900 --> 00:01:53.640 manipulated women, the media, and the legal system 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:55.579 to facilitate the deaths of his own children. 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:57.879 It is a heavy one. We've got criminal records 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.379 here dating back to the 70s, the forensic fire 00:02:00.379 --> 00:02:03.400 reports, the full trial transcripts, and updates 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:08.180 on everyone involved right up to late 2025. So 00:02:08.180 --> 00:02:11.039 let's take a breath and let's go back because 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.000 you can't understand the fire in 2012 without 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:16.539 understanding what happened in 1978. You really 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:19.340 can't. The fire was the final chapter of the 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:21.840 book, but the prologue was written decades earlier. 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:24.939 The pattern was set. So let's unpack this. 1978. 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:28.159 Mick Philpott is 21 years old. I'm looking at 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.280 his file here and there's a name that keeps popping 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:32.919 up. Kim Hill. Kim Hill. She was his girlfriend 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:35.939 at the time. She was 17 at the time of the major 00:02:35.939 --> 00:02:38.479 attack that sent him to prison. 17. But they 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:40.199 had been together since she was 15 and he was 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:42.560 19. Which is already, I mean, that's a massive 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:44.780 red flag regarding power dynamics right from 00:02:44.780 --> 00:02:46.759 the start. You have a grown man and a schoolgirl. 00:02:46.939 --> 00:02:49.620 It's a huge power imbalance. And before we even 00:02:49.620 --> 00:02:51.580 get to the stabbing that finally got the law 00:02:51.580 --> 00:02:53.560 involved, there are two incidents in your notes 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.000 that are, well, they are bizarre. They show a 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:59.199 specific type of pathology that isn't just angry 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:01.840 young man. Yeah. I read this three times to make 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:04.479 sure I wasn't hallucinating. The crossbow incident. 00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:07.400 Yes, the crossbow. He shot her with a crossbow. 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.039 He did. He shot her in the groin with a crossbow 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:12.979 bolt. Sorry, crossbow. In a domestic setting. 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.000 Where do you even get a crossbow in 1978 Derby? 00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:18.800 It's not like popping down the shops. It speaks 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:22.280 to the premeditation, the... the strangeness 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.560 of his violence. But you have to look at the 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:27.300 reason why. It wasn't a fight about money. It 00:03:27.300 --> 00:03:29.500 wasn't a drunken brawl where things got out of 00:03:29.500 --> 00:03:31.620 hand. Says here he thought her dress was too 00:03:31.620 --> 00:03:34.280 short. Exactly. It was punitive. It was about 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.520 policing her sexuality and her body. You wear 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.500 a short dress. I will physically punish the part 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:42.639 of your body that makes you a woman. It's symbolic. 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.599 It's symbolic violence. It's him saying, I own 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:48.400 this. I control how you present this to the world. 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:51.219 That is terrifying. Just the psychology behind 00:03:51.219 --> 00:03:53.900 that decision is chilling. And then there's the 00:03:53.900 --> 00:03:56.520 hammer incident. Equally disturbing. She was 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.159 minding a baby, not even their baby, you have 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:01.439 to understand, just looking after a child for 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:03.680 someone else. And Mick felt she was paying too 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:05.800 much attention to the infant and ignoring him. 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:08.099 So he took a hammer and cracked her kneecap. 00:04:08.750 --> 00:04:13.349 That is textbook narcissism, isn't it? I must 00:04:13.349 --> 00:04:15.430 be the center of the universe at all times. If 00:04:15.430 --> 00:04:17.649 a baby is getting more attention than me, I will 00:04:17.649 --> 00:04:20.069 resort to violence. It is, but it's also what 00:04:20.069 --> 00:04:23.110 we call instrumental violence. He uses pain to 00:04:23.110 --> 00:04:25.470 correct behavior he doesn't like. He's training 00:04:25.470 --> 00:04:27.529 her, like you'd train an animal. Don't do that 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:30.029 again, or this is what happens. Yes, and this 00:04:30.029 --> 00:04:35.220 all culminates in July 1978. Kim somehow... Finally 00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:37.459 builds up the courage to leave him. She sends 00:04:37.459 --> 00:04:39.879 him a letter saying it's over. And for a guy 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.180 like Philpott, rejection isn't just sad. It's 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:46.199 a profound insult to his very existence. It's 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.600 a loss of ownership. He can't handle it. He breaks 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.120 into her house while she's sleeping and he stabs 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.620 her. Not once or twice, it says here, over a 00:04:53.620 --> 00:04:56.279 dozen times. Thirteen times, yes. And it gets 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.879 worse. Kim's mother hears the commotion, tries 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:00.680 to jump in to save her daughter, which is the 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.120 instinct of any parent, and he turns the knife 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.899 on her too. He stabs the mother. Unbelievable. 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.240 Kim suffered collapsed lungs, punctured kidneys, 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.259 a punctured liver. It is a miracle. A literal 00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:15.519 medical miracle that she survived that attack. 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:19.060 OK, so he goes to court. It's 1978. He's convicted 00:05:19.060 --> 00:05:21.480 of attempted murder and grievous bodily harm 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:24.079 with intent. I'm expecting, I don't know, 20 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.980 years life for something that brutal. You would 00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:30.560 think so, wouldn't you? He got seven years. Seven. 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.459 for trying to butcher two women in their bed 00:05:33.459 --> 00:05:35.740 seven and hold on because it gets worse than 00:05:35.740 --> 00:05:38.839 that he served three years and two months i get 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:41.379 out how is that even possible three years for 00:05:41.379 --> 00:05:43.540 nearly killing two people it was a different 00:05:43.540 --> 00:05:46.060 era in british sentencing that's part of it and 00:05:46.060 --> 00:05:48.439 domestic violence specifically was often viewed 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:50.620 through this warped lens of crimes of passion 00:05:50.620 --> 00:05:53.459 rather than cold -blooded attempted murder so 00:05:53.459 --> 00:05:55.879 the system saw it as him just Losing his temper. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:58.980 In a way, yes. The system was incredibly lenient 00:05:58.980 --> 00:06:01.779 on men who snapped in a domestic setting. But 00:06:01.779 --> 00:06:03.600 think about the lesson Mick Philpott learns here. 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.720 He's 24 years old. He has just stabbed a woman 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:09.379 nearly to death for leaving him. And he is out 00:06:09.379 --> 00:06:12.319 in 36 months. He learns he is untouchable. He 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:14.639 learns that the price of nearly killing a woman 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.860 is just a short time out. He's not rehabilitated. 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.899 That sense of impunity. That is the seed that 00:06:20.899 --> 00:06:23.720 grows into the fire in 2012. He didn't learn 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.199 his lesson. He learned he could survive the consequences. 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:28.819 And clearly the behavior didn't stop. Because 00:06:28.819 --> 00:06:31.259 as we look through the 80s and 90s in these records, 00:06:31.459 --> 00:06:33.899 the pattern just repeats. It's like a blueprint. 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:36.519 It's a carousel of control. He marries a woman 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:39.740 named Pamela Lomax in 1986. They have three kids. 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.379 Her description of him is chillingly simple. 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.079 She said he was controlling and she prayed he 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.040 would move on. She didn't pray for him to change. 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:49.620 No. She just wanted to survive him leaving. That's 00:06:49.620 --> 00:06:52.180 how trapped she felt. Just please go away and 00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:54.699 leave me in one piece. And he did move on. But 00:06:54.699 --> 00:06:57.540 to someone even more vulnerable, this is where 00:06:57.540 --> 00:06:59.180 it gets even more disturbing. Heather Kehoe. 00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:03.079 He met her when she was 14. He was 37. 14. Yeah. 00:07:03.139 --> 00:07:05.720 That is... That's predatory. There is no other 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:08.019 word for it. It's grooming, plain and simple. 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.319 She ran away from her parents to live with him 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:13.139 on her 16th birthday. And again, the control 00:07:13.139 --> 00:07:15.839 over reproduction comes straight into play. She 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.379 gave birth to two sons. But Philpott wanted a 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:22.259 daughter. He had a specific order. He did. And 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:24.839 he actually beat this teenager because she... 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:27.300 failed to give him a daughter. It's biological 00:07:27.300 --> 00:07:30.060 nonsense, obviously. The man determines the sex 00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:32.500 of the baby, but it shows that he views these 00:07:32.500 --> 00:07:35.800 women and children as objects to fulfill his 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.720 specific requests. Like ordering from a catalog. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:41.279 I wanted the blue one. You gave me the red one. 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:43.899 Exactly. He even taught his older sons from his 00:07:43.899 --> 00:07:46.399 first marriage to be violent toward her. It's 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.439 about creating an environment where he is the 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.680 only authority, the absolute dictator. He's building 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.459 his own private army inside the house. By 2002, 00:07:54.819 --> 00:07:57.579 Heather Kehoe managed to escape and gain legal 00:07:57.579 --> 00:07:59.759 custody of her children, but the damage was done. 00:07:59.939 --> 00:08:02.139 And even in the workplace, the violence leaked 00:08:02.139 --> 00:08:04.980 out. In 1991, he got a conditional discharge 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:07.279 for headbutting a colleague. So we have a man 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:10.439 who solves problems with violence hammers, crossbows, 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.740 knives, headbutts. This is the man who, by the 00:08:13.740 --> 00:08:16.620 mid -2000s, starts appearing on our televisions. 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.980 And this is the disconnect I really want to unpack. 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:22.240 How do we go from convicted attempted murderer 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.029 to... TV character. Well, the media loves the 00:08:26.029 --> 00:08:28.470 character and Philpott was willing, no, eager 00:08:28.470 --> 00:08:32.370 to play the role. By 2006, he is living at 18 00:08:32.370 --> 00:08:34.830 Victory Road. This is the council house that 00:08:34.830 --> 00:08:37.710 becomes infamous. And he has constructed what 00:08:37.710 --> 00:08:40.610 the tabloids gleefully called his harem. Right. 00:08:40.710 --> 00:08:42.529 This is the setup that got everyone's attention. 00:08:42.769 --> 00:08:45.970 He has his wife married, who he married in 2003. 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:49.509 And he has his mistress, Lisa Willis, who moved 00:08:49.509 --> 00:08:52.350 in back in 2002. And between them, the house 00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:54.029 is full of children. I think the records say 00:08:54.029 --> 00:08:56.529 18 children in total associated with him over 00:08:56.529 --> 00:08:58.029 the years, though not all lived there at the 00:08:58.029 --> 00:09:00.250 same time. But you had Merritt, Lisa, and this 00:09:00.250 --> 00:09:02.450 brood all under one roof. And this is where the 00:09:02.450 --> 00:09:04.669 media latched on. He started demanding a larger 00:09:04.669 --> 00:09:06.590 council house. He did. He went to the press, 00:09:06.710 --> 00:09:08.649 complaining that his three -bedroom house wasn't 00:09:08.649 --> 00:09:10.250 big enough for his family, for his two women, 00:09:10.269 --> 00:09:12.389 and all the kids. And the tabloids ate it up. 00:09:12.789 --> 00:09:15.009 Shameless Mick is born. That's the moment. He 00:09:15.009 --> 00:09:17.659 becomes a symbol of... Yeah. Of everything people 00:09:17.659 --> 00:09:20.159 were angry about. The benefits lifestyle. He 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:22.440 even went on the Jeremy Kyle show. He did. He 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.860 went on there to defend his lifestyle. Said he 00:09:24.860 --> 00:09:27.259 wanted to marry one, divorce her, marry the other, 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:29.820 then get a vasectomy. It was a circus. And he 00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:32.320 was the ringmaster. He loved it. And the high 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:35.340 point of this media tour, if you can call it 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:38.019 that, was the documentary with Ann Woodcombe. 00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:41.039 Ann Woodcomb versus 2007. Yes, a conservative 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.000 member of parliament goes to live with him for 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:45.440 a week to see how the other half lives. And the 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:47.740 details she observed from the source material 00:09:47.740 --> 00:09:50.940 you've got here, they are just astonishing. They 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:53.480 are. The most bizarre thing was the living arrangement. 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:56.740 The caravan. The caravan in the garden. Mick 00:09:56.740 --> 00:09:59.059 didn't sleep in the house with his wives. He 00:09:59.059 --> 00:10:01.820 slept in a caravan. And Marietta and Lisa were 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:04.419 on a rota. Like a shift pattern. For sleeping 00:10:04.419 --> 00:10:06.960 with your own husband. A shift pattern. One night, 00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:09.360 Married goes out to the caravan. The next night, 00:10:09.419 --> 00:10:12.320 Lisa goes out. It was this bizarre, scheduled, 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:16.899 passionless system. That sounds awful. It sounds 00:10:16.899 --> 00:10:18.860 like a prison camp. There's no humanity in that. 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:21.679 It was. Whitcomb stayed there for a week. And 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.659 she noted, very pointedly, that he used the word 00:10:24.659 --> 00:10:27.120 bitch to refer to both women interchangeably. 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:29.840 There was no respect. It was, make me a tea, 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:32.659 bitch. And they did it. Why? That's the question 00:10:32.659 --> 00:10:35.019 I keep asking myself. Why stay in that situation? 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.320 Whitcomb asks that, too. It's the boiled fraud 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:40.799 effect. He isolates them. He destroys their self 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:42.980 -esteem. He makes them completely financially 00:10:42.980 --> 00:10:45.320 dependent on him because all the benefit money 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.120 goes to him. He holds the purse strings. Completely. 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.000 By the time they realize they are in a prison, 00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:53.299 the door is locked and he has the key. But Whitcomb 00:10:53.299 --> 00:10:55.580 noticed something else, something really chilling 00:10:55.580 --> 00:10:57.679 about the children. She said they didn't go to 00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:59.919 him for affection. Correct. In a normal chaotic 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:03.220 house, kids are jumping on dad, pulling his leg, 00:11:03.460 --> 00:11:06.740 asking for attention. In that house, she observed 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:09.440 that they gave him a wide berth. They kept their 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:12.360 distance. That is a massive tell. It's huge. 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:15.240 They were afraid of him. And she tried to help 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:17.580 him, you know. She found him a job at a barrel 00:11:17.580 --> 00:11:19.799 making firm. And he didn't show up. Failed to 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:22.179 show up on day one because work would mean losing 00:11:22.179 --> 00:11:24.500 control of his day and losing some of his benefits. 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:28.250 So the shameless Mick persona. The lazy, benefit 00:11:28.250 --> 00:11:31.210 -scrounging Lothario was true on the surface. 00:11:31.490 --> 00:11:34.450 But underneath, the psychologist Glenn Wilson 00:11:34.450 --> 00:11:37.330 later diagnosed him as an exhibitionist with 00:11:37.330 --> 00:11:40.330 antisocial personality disorder. He was feeding 00:11:40.330 --> 00:11:42.649 off the attention. He was. But the thing about 00:11:42.649 --> 00:11:44.990 narcissists and controllers is that their entire 00:11:44.990 --> 00:11:48.019 world is fragile. Their power depends on the 00:11:48.019 --> 00:11:50.519 compliance of the people around them. And as 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.879 we move into 2011 and 2012, that compliance started 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:56.500 to crack. This is the catalyst, right? The system 00:11:56.500 --> 00:12:00.019 he so carefully built at 18 Victory Road starts 00:12:00.019 --> 00:12:03.320 to fall apart. The primary trigger was Lisa Willis. 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:06.519 The mistress. The mistress. In February 2012, 00:12:06.700 --> 00:12:08.480 after years in that house, she did something 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.960 incredibly brave. She left, she took her children, 00:12:11.019 --> 00:12:13.379 and she moved out. And for Philpott, this isn't 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:15.480 just a breakup. This is a declaration of war. 00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:17.919 Oh, it's a triple blow. First, it's a catastrophic 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:19.779 blow to his ego. Someone walked away from him. 00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:22.259 Second, it's a blow to his control over his little 00:12:22.259 --> 00:12:25.220 kingdom. And third, and very importantly for 00:12:25.220 --> 00:12:28.320 Philpott, it was a financial blow. When she left 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.700 with her children, the benefits associated with 00:12:30.700 --> 00:12:33.460 those children left, too. A huge chunk of his 00:12:33.460 --> 00:12:35.500 income just walked out the door. So the income 00:12:35.500 --> 00:12:37.840 stream dries up. The public humiliation sets 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.750 in. The tension must have been skyrocketing in 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:44.149 that house. It was palpable. The court records 00:12:44.149 --> 00:12:47.009 show he was becoming more erratic. Just a week 00:12:47.009 --> 00:12:49.350 before the fire, he was in court for a road rage 00:12:49.350 --> 00:12:51.669 incident where he punched another driver. He 00:12:51.669 --> 00:12:53.950 pleaded guilty to common assault. Punching a 00:12:53.950 --> 00:12:56.990 driver, again, just resorting to immediate violence 00:12:56.990 --> 00:12:59.769 when frustrated. It's his only tool. It's his 00:12:59.769 --> 00:13:02.370 default setting. And inside the marriage to Mayor 00:13:02.370 --> 00:13:04.570 Reed, things were getting even more depraved. 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:06.799 During the later trial, it came out that starting 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.899 in 2011, Mick and Mareed were involved in dogging 00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:12.559 public sex acts with strangers. And there was 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.379 a detail about that which really highlighted 00:13:14.379 --> 00:13:16.519 his control over her body. Yeah. It was just 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:19.860 astonishing. Yes. Mareed became pregnant by another 00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:22.120 man during these sessions, and Mick Philpott 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:24.759 instructed her, he ordered her, to have an abortion, 00:13:25.059 --> 00:13:28.629 and she did. He couldn't stand the idea. of her 00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:30.610 having a child that wasn't his, even though he 00:13:30.610 --> 00:13:33.049 was forcing her into this situation. It exemplifies 00:13:33.049 --> 00:13:36.070 his total dominance. He decides when she gets 00:13:36.070 --> 00:13:38.909 pregnant, who she sleeps with, and when she terminates 00:13:38.909 --> 00:13:42.429 a pregnancy. Her body is his property. So we 00:13:42.429 --> 00:13:45.830 have a pressure cooker. Lisa has left. He's losing 00:13:45.830 --> 00:13:49.509 money. He's losing control. And there is a court 00:13:49.509 --> 00:13:52.029 hearing scheduled regarding custody of Lisa's 00:13:52.029 --> 00:13:54.389 children. And that hearing is scheduled for the 00:13:54.389 --> 00:13:57.759 very morning of the fire. The timing. That can't 00:13:57.759 --> 00:13:59.820 be a coincidence. It is absolutely not a coincidence. 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:03.419 May 11, 2012. The very morning he is supposed 00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:05.940 to face a judge about custody and potentially 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.679 lose for good, the house goes up in flames. Let's 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.659 go back to that night. 4. a .m. 18 Victory Road. 00:14:11.779 --> 00:14:13.980 A petrol -fueled fire rips through the hallway. 00:14:14.590 --> 00:14:16.389 Now you have to understand the layout of these 00:14:16.389 --> 00:14:19.090 post -war council houses. The stairs are often 00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:20.870 right by the front door. It's a very common design. 00:14:20.950 --> 00:14:22.850 So the escape route. The escape route becomes 00:14:22.850 --> 00:14:24.850 the danger zone. The stairs act like a chimney. 00:14:24.970 --> 00:14:27.269 The fire starts at the bottom and all the heat, 00:14:27.309 --> 00:14:29.789 all the smoke just funnels straight upstairs. 00:14:30.149 --> 00:14:32.590 So the upstairs becomes a trap. An absolute death 00:14:32.590 --> 00:14:35.070 trap. And the smoke, people think fire kills 00:14:35.070 --> 00:14:37.509 you by burning. It doesn't usually. It's the 00:14:37.509 --> 00:14:40.330 smoke. It's toxic, thick, black smoke that knocks 00:14:40.330 --> 00:14:42.929 you out before you even wake up properly. And 00:14:42.929 --> 00:14:45.090 we need to name the children. Because in all 00:14:45.090 --> 00:14:47.590 this talk of Mick and court cases and media, 00:14:47.830 --> 00:14:50.090 they are the ones who matter. They were the ones 00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:52.230 sleeping upstairs, completely innocent in all 00:14:52.230 --> 00:14:55.169 this. Absolutely. We have Jade, who is 10, John, 00:14:55.269 --> 00:14:59.570 who is 9, Jack, age 7, Jesse, age 6, and Jaden, 00:14:59.610 --> 00:15:02.470 who is only 5. They all died at the scene in 00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:04.929 their beds. And Dwayne, he was older. Dwayne 00:15:04.929 --> 00:15:06.750 was the oldest in the house that night, age 13. 00:15:07.009 --> 00:15:08.929 He was pulled out by firefighters. He fought 00:15:08.929 --> 00:15:10.529 for his life, but he died in the hospital two 00:15:10.529 --> 00:15:12.429 days later. All of them, the coroner confirmed, 00:15:12.690 --> 00:15:15.929 died from smoke inhalation. It is just unimaginable. 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:18.850 Six children gone in a single night. And in the 00:15:18.850 --> 00:15:21.870 immediate aftermath, the community in Derby is 00:15:21.870 --> 00:15:23.629 devastated. Neighbors are trying to break windows, 00:15:23.690 --> 00:15:26.809 trying to get in. But Mick. The reports say Mick 00:15:26.809 --> 00:15:29.129 is behaving strangely. Witnesses at the scene 00:15:29.129 --> 00:15:31.809 reported it immediately. He was behaving in a 00:15:31.809 --> 00:15:34.610 way that seemed performed. He was throwing himself 00:15:34.610 --> 00:15:36.750 around, making a lot of noise, but not actually 00:15:36.750 --> 00:15:40.529 helping. One observer noted he appeared to like 00:15:40.529 --> 00:15:42.809 the media attention, even while the smoke was 00:15:42.809 --> 00:15:45.070 still clearing from his house. The cameras are 00:15:45.070 --> 00:15:46.950 on him again. And he's the center of attention. 00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:50.909 And then came that press conference on May 16th. 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:52.950 I think anyone who was watching the news in the 00:15:52.950 --> 00:15:56.570 UK at that time remembers it. Mick and Mary sitting 00:15:56.570 --> 00:15:59.370 there wiping away tears. It was an emotional 00:15:59.370 --> 00:16:01.950 performance or an attempt at one. He was trying 00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:04.350 to act the part of the grieving father. They 00:16:04.350 --> 00:16:06.830 purported to describe the horror of the event. 00:16:06.970 --> 00:16:09.450 They thanked the firefighters. And the public 00:16:09.450 --> 00:16:11.690 bought it initially. Of course they did. Why 00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:13.830 wouldn't you? Who assumes a father burned his 00:16:13.830 --> 00:16:15.889 own house down with his children inside? It's 00:16:15.889 --> 00:16:18.509 the unthinkable. So the community rallied. A 00:16:18.509 --> 00:16:20.590 charity was set up called Catch Me When I Fall. 00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:24.250 Locals raised over 11 ,000 pounds for the funerals. 00:16:24.570 --> 00:16:26.990 It shows the best of human nature responding 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:29.450 to what they thought was the worst of tragedies. 00:16:29.610 --> 00:16:32.210 People signed books of condolence at Derby Cathedral. 00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:37.110 The funerals were held on June 22. But, and this 00:16:37.110 --> 00:16:40.169 is a chilling detail, Mick and Mary did not attend 00:16:40.169 --> 00:16:42.330 the funerals for their own six children. Why 00:16:42.330 --> 00:16:45.649 not? Because by June 22, the narrative had flipped 00:16:45.649 --> 00:16:48.490 entirely. They were already in custody. So let's 00:16:48.490 --> 00:16:50.309 pivot to the investigation. This is fascinating. 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:54.509 How do we get from grieving father to prime suspect 00:16:54.509 --> 00:16:57.330 in just a few weeks? It's where forensic science 00:16:57.330 --> 00:16:59.970 meets police intuition. The fire investigation 00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:02.759 team, the specialists. They were suspicious almost 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.420 immediately. Because of the petrol. Yes. They 00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:08.519 found petrol inside the letterbox. Now, fires 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.740 don't accidentally start with petrol inside a 00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:13.039 UPVC letterbox. That's not a thing that happens. 00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.359 Right. That indicates an intentional pour through 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.420 the door from the outside. This was deliberate. 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.579 So it was definitely arson. Definite arson. But 00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:21.200 initially, the Philpott's tried to spin this. 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.690 The theory... And what they likely wanted the 00:17:23.690 --> 00:17:26.730 police to believe was that Lisa Willis, the disgruntled 00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:29.289 ex -mistress, had done it as an act of revenge. 00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:33.269 Ah, so that was the game. Frame Lisa. That was 00:17:33.269 --> 00:17:36.309 the suspected master plan. In fact, the police 00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:38.609 played along initially. They had to follow the 00:17:38.609 --> 00:17:40.670 evidence. Lisa Willis and her brother -in -law 00:17:40.670 --> 00:17:43.470 were arrested. I bet Philpott loved that. He 00:17:43.470 --> 00:17:46.390 must have thought, it's working. For a moment, 00:17:46.529 --> 00:17:48.690 it probably seemed like his master plan was in 00:17:48.690 --> 00:17:50.890 action. But they were released without charge 00:17:50.890 --> 00:17:53.640 very quickly. The evidence just didn't point 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:56.559 to them. It pointed back to the house. What specifically 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:00.380 pointed to Mick and Mayor Reed? This is a CSI 00:18:00.380 --> 00:18:03.000 moment. What was the smoking gun, so to speak? 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.140 Forensic investigators tested the clothing they 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:08.339 were wearing that night. They found petrol on 00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:11.019 Mick's track pants. They found it on Mayor Reed's 00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:12.859 leggings. And they found it on the clothes of 00:18:12.859 --> 00:18:15.660 a family friend, Paul Mosley. Paul Mosley. We 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:17.549 haven't talked about him much. Who is he? He 00:18:17.549 --> 00:18:19.650 was a friend of the couple, often at the house, 00:18:19.670 --> 00:18:21.670 a bit of a hanger on. He was essentially the 00:18:21.670 --> 00:18:24.049 third wheel in this plot, the accomplice who 00:18:24.049 --> 00:18:26.970 helped them. And they found other evidence. A 00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:29.609 discarded petrol container and a glove were found 00:18:29.609 --> 00:18:32.349 near the house, tying the physical evidence together. 00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:35.410 But the police needed more than just petrol traces. 00:18:35.730 --> 00:18:37.710 They needed to know what was in their heads. 00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:40.289 They needed a confession. And this is where the 00:18:40.289 --> 00:18:42.750 surveillance comes in. This detail always gets 00:18:42.750 --> 00:18:46.200 me. The police bugged their hotel room. It was 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.819 a brilliant tactical move. After the fire, the 00:18:48.819 --> 00:18:50.880 house is a crime scene, so the fill pots are 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.660 put up in a local premier inn. The police got 00:18:53.660 --> 00:18:56.200 authorization for covert recording devices in 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:58.539 that room. They were listening to every single 00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:00.799 whisper. And what they heard confirmed everything. 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.180 It confirmed they were responsible. They were 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:05.200 caught whispering about sticking to the story, 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:08.200 about what they told police. But it also captured 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.920 something that disgusted even the most hardened 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.220 detectives on the case. What was that? While 00:19:13.220 --> 00:19:15.380 their six children were lying in the morgue awaiting 00:19:15.380 --> 00:19:18.519 autopsy or burial, the microphones picked up 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.339 Merritt engaging in a sex act with Paul Mosley. 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.259 With Paul Mosley? Yes, with Mick present and 00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:28.160 seemingly encouraging it. I mean, no moral compass 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.059 is a phrase that gets thrown around, but that 00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:32.700 is, it's beyond comprehension. It's a complete 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:36.039 emotional void. It highlights the bizarre detached 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.099 behavior. It is not the behavior of grieving 00:19:39.099 --> 00:19:41.880 parents. It's the behavior of people who think 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:44.180 they have gotten away with something or who simply 00:19:44.180 --> 00:19:47.099 do not value the lives that were just lost in 00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.900 the most horrific way. So on May 28, they're 00:19:49.900 --> 00:19:52.279 arrested. Right. And eventually they are charged. 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:54.640 But this is important. They weren't convicted 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.039 of murder. They were convicted of manslaughter. 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.200 Why the distinction? That seems to confuse a 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.279 lot of people. This is a crucial legal point, 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:04.170 and it comes down to intent. The prosecution 00:20:04.170 --> 00:20:06.529 accepted, based on the evidence and the bugged 00:20:06.529 --> 00:20:08.630 conversations, that Mick and Merritt did not 00:20:08.630 --> 00:20:10.390 intend to kill the children. They didn't want 00:20:10.390 --> 00:20:13.170 them dead. After all that. The prosecution's 00:20:13.170 --> 00:20:16.170 case was that they didn't. The plan, as the prosecution 00:20:16.170 --> 00:20:18.130 laid it out, was to start a small, controllable 00:20:18.130 --> 00:20:20.829 fire. And then what? And then rescue the children 00:20:20.829 --> 00:20:24.029 emerging from the smoke as heroes. A rescue plan. 00:20:24.589 --> 00:20:28.950 A fake rescue. Yes. A horribly misguided and 00:20:28.950 --> 00:20:32.490 reckless stunt. Start a fire. Blame the ex -mistress 00:20:32.490 --> 00:20:35.609 Lisa, save the kids and look like a hero father 00:20:35.609 --> 00:20:37.549 in the eyes of the community and the courts. 00:20:37.750 --> 00:20:40.390 So if Lisa is framed for arson, she goes to jail 00:20:40.390 --> 00:20:43.819 and Mick gets custody of her kids back. Exactly. 00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:46.839 He wins back the kids, he wins back the benefits 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:48.859 that came with them, and he destroys the woman 00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:51.700 who dared to leave him. It was, in his mind, 00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:54.180 a perfect plan. A high -risk gamble. But the 00:20:54.180 --> 00:20:57.220 fire spread too fast, the UPVC doorframe, the 00:20:57.220 --> 00:20:59.740 cheap carpets, the smoke was too toxic. They 00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:01.460 couldn't get back upstairs to get the kids out. 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:04.039 The stunt became a massacre. That almost makes 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.099 it worse. Treating your own children as props 00:21:06.099 --> 00:21:09.009 in a stunt. It's treating them as pawns, expendable 00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:11.410 pieces in a game of control and revenge. That's 00:21:11.410 --> 00:21:13.509 all they were to him in that moment. So the trial 00:21:13.509 --> 00:21:16.269 happens in early 2013 at Nottingham Crown Court. 00:21:16.430 --> 00:21:19.089 You've got Mick, Maureen, and Paul Mosley in 00:21:19.089 --> 00:21:21.670 the dock. And in April 2013, the verdicts come 00:21:21.670 --> 00:21:24.210 in. All three are found guilty of manslaughter. 00:21:24.369 --> 00:21:26.930 And the sentencing. The judge must have had a 00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:29.670 lot to say. Mrs. Justice Thirlwall did not hold 00:21:29.670 --> 00:21:33.230 back. She sentenced Mick Philpott to life imprisonment 00:21:33.230 --> 00:21:36.470 with a minimum term of 15 years. She described 00:21:36.470 --> 00:21:39.509 him as a disturbingly dangerous man with no moral 00:21:39.509 --> 00:21:42.029 compass. She was clear that he was the driving 00:21:42.029 --> 00:21:44.410 force, the architect of this whole tragedy. And 00:21:44.410 --> 00:21:47.220 married and Paul Mosley. They each got 17 years. 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.119 The law at the time meant they would have to 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.160 serve half before being considered for release. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.039 The judge viewed them as being under mixed influence 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:56.420 but still fully culpable for their participation 00:21:56.420 --> 00:21:59.220 in this reckless scheme that killed six children. 00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:01.380 And it was only after the verdict, right, that 00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:03.960 the jury and the wider public learned about the 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.150 1978 conviction. The stabbing. Yes. That's a 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:09.289 standard part of British law to withhold prior 00:22:09.289 --> 00:22:11.430 convictions so as not to prejudice the jury. 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:13.710 So when the verdict was read and then the reporting 00:22:13.710 --> 00:22:15.690 restrictions were lifted, there was this collective 00:22:15.690 --> 00:22:18.470 gasp from the public. Everyone suddenly realized, 00:22:18.609 --> 00:22:21.509 wait, this man stabbed a woman 13 times in 1978 00:22:21.509 --> 00:22:24.869 and was out in three years. It added a whole 00:22:24.869 --> 00:22:27.329 new layer of outrage and a sense that the system 00:22:27.329 --> 00:22:30.970 had failed long before 2012. So that was 2013. 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:34.319 We are now, for the purpose of this deep dive, 00:22:34.460 --> 00:22:37.740 in early 2026. What has happened to these three 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:40.799 people since? Well, the timeline has moved forward, 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:44.099 as it does. Married Philpott appealed her sentence 00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:47.259 in November 2013. On what grounds? What was her 00:22:47.259 --> 00:22:49.619 argument? She argued that she was under mixed 00:22:49.619 --> 00:22:52.480 coercive control and couldn't exercise free choice. 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:55.519 Essentially, the... he made me do it defense 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.559 did the court buy it no the appeal was dismissed 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.259 the court ruled that while he was clearly a controlling 00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:04.000 and dominant figure she was a grown woman and 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.380 a mother who had a primary duty to protect her 00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:09.079 children not participate in a plan to set their 00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:11.400 house on fire so she served her time she did 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.619 married was released on license in 2020 after 00:23:14.619 --> 00:23:17.940 serving half her 17 -year sentence wow That must 00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:19.640 have been a difficult day for the community in 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:21.960 Derby and for the families of the victims. It 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.500 was very controversial. She was given a new identity, 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.000 presumably to protect her from vigilante attacks, 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.700 and she has disappeared from public life. And 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:32.720 Paul Mosley. A similar story initially. He was 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.920 also released on license after serving half his 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.259 sentence. However, there is a very recent update 00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:40.720 on him in the files. In October of 2025, just 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.640 a few months ago relative to our date today, 00:23:42.940 --> 00:23:45.799 Paul Mosley was found dead at a property in Portsmouth. 00:23:46.410 --> 00:23:49.789 So he is gone. And Mick, the man at the center 00:23:49.789 --> 00:23:52.410 of it all. Mick Philpott remains in prison. He 00:23:52.410 --> 00:23:54.609 got the life sentence, remember? The 15 years 00:23:54.609 --> 00:23:56.650 was just the minimum tariff before he could even 00:23:56.650 --> 00:23:58.670 apply for parole. It doesn't mean he gets out 00:23:58.670 --> 00:24:00.450 automatically. He'll have to convince a parole 00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:03.069 board he's no longer a danger. And is he still? 00:24:03.589 --> 00:24:06.410 Mick, is there any sign of remorse or change? 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:09.140 By all accounts, no. There was a report in 2021 00:24:09.140 --> 00:24:11.759 that he wanted a reunion with Maureen upon her 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.059 release. A reunion? After she divorced him in 00:24:14.059 --> 00:24:15.920 prison and her testimony helped convict him? 00:24:16.059 --> 00:24:18.680 It shows the sheer delusion. The narcissism is 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.640 completely intact. In his mind, he still believes 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:24.180 he owns her. He still believes he can reconstruct 00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:27.720 that life of control. It's pure narcissism, impervious 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.640 to reality. So we've unpacked the history, the 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.799 crime, the media circus, the trial. When we pull 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.369 back and look at this big picture. What are we 00:24:36.369 --> 00:24:38.549 really seeing here? What's the takeaway? We are 00:24:38.549 --> 00:24:41.470 seeing the catastrophic failure to connect the 00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:44.710 dots. A societal failure, really. We had a man 00:24:44.710 --> 00:24:47.569 with a documented violent history of stabbing 00:24:47.569 --> 00:24:50.470 women. We had social services involved for years 00:24:50.470 --> 00:24:52.549 due to the sheer number of children in his care. 00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:55.490 And we had a media that turned his abusive, controlling, 00:24:55.750 --> 00:24:58.549 and frankly dangerous behavior into light entertainment. 00:24:58.910 --> 00:25:00.869 We laughed at the clown and missed the killer 00:25:00.869 --> 00:25:03.680 standing right behind him. Precisely. We, as 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:06.619 a society, treated his harem as a joke about 00:25:06.619 --> 00:25:09.059 the benefits system rather than identifying it 00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.559 for what it was. A high -risk environment of 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.200 extreme coercive control run by a known violent 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:16.480 offender. The red flags were not just waving, 00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:18.500 they were being broadcast on national television. 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.960 And the cost was Jade, John, Jack, Jesse, Jaden, 00:25:22.019 --> 00:25:25.500 and Dwayne. Six kids who were, in the end, treated 00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:28.319 as currency. Assets to be fought over for money 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:30.619 or props to be used in a twisted revenge plot. 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:43.200 That is the ultimate tragedy. It's a heavy story. 00:25:43.849 --> 00:25:46.250 but a necessary one to understand, I think. It 00:25:46.250 --> 00:25:48.529 forces us to ask a really uncomfortable question. 00:25:48.869 --> 00:25:52.029 We often laugh at characters in the media who 00:25:52.029 --> 00:25:55.890 live outside social norms. We consume poverty 00:25:55.890 --> 00:25:58.730 porn or reality TV spectacles because they're 00:25:58.730 --> 00:26:01.170 entertaining. But when does our consumption of 00:26:01.170 --> 00:26:03.769 that spectacle blind us to the abuse happening 00:26:03.769 --> 00:26:05.809 right in front of the cameras? Was the warning 00:26:05.809 --> 00:26:08.630 sign there in 1978 ignored because the show was 00:26:08.630 --> 00:26:10.950 just too entertaining? That is the question we 00:26:10.950 --> 00:26:13.960 should all be asking ourselves. characters what 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:16.359 are we really looking at thank you for listening 00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:19.539 to this deep dive it wasn't an easy one but we 00:26:19.539 --> 00:26:21.259 hope it shed some light on the reality behind 00:26:21.259 --> 00:26:24.059 the headlines check your sources stay curious 00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:25.400 and look out for each other